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The plan is the veterans hide behind the aegis bubble wrapping the wyverns, the lord commissar mans the quad gun with his BS 5 and makes sure the vets dont run away. Pask's squad and the vanquishers will either stay behind the aegis and vets if there is deep strike melta threats or they will move up and find targets wilth their awesome fire power ! Im seriously excited to see the shooting the tanks can put out when i play this list, Pask's squadron is BS 4 preferred enemy on 10 plasma cannon shots and a rending punisher cannon I like this formation alot more than having the tanks in a normal CAD format because i dont have to squadron all the tanks to fit them in which is brilliant because ive had alot of bad experiences losing 3 tanks in one assault from thunder hammer or melta bomb dudes ! Also it makes the tanks even more durable with the battle doctrine special rule (Battlefield Doctrines: If a vehicle from this Formation that is within 6″ of an Enginseer from this Formation suffers a penetrating hit, your opponent must roll two dice on the Vehicle Damage table and discard the highest.) AV 14 with this rule is so tough !!!

Astra Militarum 1848

Emperor's Fist Armoured Company 1248

Knight Commander Pask 70
Leman Russ Punisher 140
Lascannon 10
Multi-Melta Sponsons 20
Relic Plating 3

2 Leman Russ Executioner 310 <- in squadron with Pask
Lascannons 20
Plasmacannon Sponsons 60

Leman Russ Vanquisher 135
Lascannon 10
Multi-Meltas 20

Leman Russ Vanquisher 135
Lascannon 10
Multi-Meltas 20

Leman Russ Vanquisher 135
Lascannon 10
Multi-Meltas 20

3 Enginseer 120

Combined Arms Detachment 600

HQ 65

Lord Commisar 65

Troops 240

Veterans 60
Autocannon 10
Forward Sentries 10

Veterans 60
Autocannon 10
Forward Sentries 10

Veterans 60
Autocannon 10
Forward Sentries 10

Heavy Support 195

Wyvern 65

Wyvern 65

Wyvern 65

Fortification 100

Aegis 50
Quad gun 50

Please give me feedback !

One indisputable thing to add to any IG list that is missing a couple points is to upgrade the vet sergeants laspistol to a boltgun or bolt pistol for a point.

Aside from not having a lot of anti-air (which you can frequently get away with at a tournament), you might want to add in a way to get some low AP ignores cover.

jaxor1983 wrote:
you might want to add in a way to get some low AP ignores cover.

What options do Astra Militarum have for this? The only thing I can think of is the Hellhammer superheavy (S10 AP1 7" Blast Ignores Cover) but that's 540 points!

Good idea jaxor, i will add boltguns.

hmmm i also dont see a source for low ap ignores cover shooing aside from a big expensive super heavy either. I do have low ap with my plasma cannons, lascannons, meltas and vanquisher guns and some ignores cover shooting from the wyverns so i think it will be OK.

I was thinking about dropping one of the Executioner plasma tanks and adding a Culexus Assassin because i have no way to counter psykers, do you think this would be worth ??

 Gorgosaurusrex wrote:

jaxor1983 wrote:
you might want to add in a way to get some low AP ignores cover.

What options do Astra Militarum have for this? The only thing I can think of is the Hellhammer superheavy (S10 AP1 7" Blast Ignores Cover) but that's 540 points!

The Emperor's Wrath formation lets you give "ignores cover" orders to Basalisks/Manticores... also, you can still use the Colossus (From IA 1 2nd Ed.) -- they FAQ'd out the part about it not being able to shoot within its minimum range

Probably worth considering the GW draft FAQ which would remove your re-rolls on gets hot for preferred enemy and that doesn't allow Pask as an upgrade within the formation.

greatgut wrote:
Probably worth considering the GW draft FAQ which would remove your re-rolls on gets hot for preferred enemy and that doesn't allow Pask as an upgrade within the formation.

I was going to mention this before I read further down the list.

Other than that, I very much like the idea and can see how it's intended to work.
A CCS dishing out orders is pretty much the only way to gain any low AP ignores cover really.

Depends on how competitive you want to go regarding the culexus and the above. There's a heck of a lot of firepower you're intending to put out!
I'd be more inclined to trim either the MM off the Vanquishers, or drop a veteran squad to gain a CCS. Give them the autocannon, and put one of the Vets on the Quadgun? You could use one order for split fire?

Astra Militarum tank lists are pretty bad, IMO. Everyone wielding them drools about the firepower, but doesn't think through just how fragile they are in the assault.
Then you end up sitting behind an aegis line all game long. How are you going to go out there and get objectives if your tanks can't move more than 6" in a turn, and spend the first 3 turns sitting there and shooting? Your list has no reliable way to go out there and get objectives. Chimeras are not a solution; your opponent can take them out pretty easily because they're not Russes.

Let's say you're playing against Necrons and the other player gets first turn. That gives you about 2 turns of shooting before his 2 squads of Canoptek Wraiths reach your lines. Do yourself a favor and calculate whether you can kill a squad of 6 Necron Wraiths in one turn. T5, W2, 3++ save. Bear in mind that success means that you still have 3/4 of his army out there and you're still behind your aegis line, probably in a corner far from all the objectives.

Celerior wrote:
Astra Militarum tank lists are pretty bad, IMO. Everyone wielding them drools about the firepower, but doesn't think through just how fragile they are in the assault.
Then you end up sitting behind an aegis line all game long. How are you going to go out there and get objectives if your tanks can't move more than 6" in a turn, and spend the first 3 turns sitting there and shooting? Your list has no reliable way to go out there and get objectives. Chimeras are not a solution; your opponent can take them out pretty easily because they're not Russes.

Let's say you're playing against Necrons and the other player gets first turn. That gives you about 2 turns of shooting before his 2 squads of Canoptek Wraiths reach your lines. Do yourself a favor and calculate whether you can kill a squad of 6 Necron Wraiths in one turn. T5, W2, 3++ save. Bear in mind that success means that you still have 3/4 of his army out there and you're still behind your aegis line, probably in a corner far from all the objectives.

Then how the hell are you supposed to play AM? That's what they do they sit there and shoot. They can't zip around like Eldar.

Also your post is very negative - you gave no way that this person can improve their list you just poo-pooed his list

The fact is, the only reliable way to ..say.. go out and grab the relic against all the better codices is with a fearless, psyker'd-up blob. But that tends to become the focal point of the army. And you definitely can't afford to run all those tanks with it.

If you are worried about not being able to create a large enough wound pool against high toughness units like wraiths and thunderwolves, then you can convert one of those tanks into another punisher (or replace one with a vulture).

Probably worth considering the GW draft FAQ which would remove your re-rolls on gets hot for preferred enemy and that doesn't allow Pask as an upgrade within the formation.

This ruins my list

I did double check the re roll gets hot thing and in the rule book it says 'If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit (including because of BS6+ or the
Twin-linked special rule), a Wound is only suffered if the To Hit re-roll is also a 1; it may
also re-roll Gets Hot results of 1 for weapons that do not roll To Hit.' so i presumed it does but i suppose i could be wrong.

Astra Militarum tank lists are pretty bad, IMO. Everyone wielding them drools about the firepower, but doesn't think through just how fragile they are in the assault.
Then you end up sitting behind an aegis line all game long. How are you going to go out there and get objectives if your tanks can't move more than 6" in a turn, and spend the first 3 turns sitting there and shooting? Your list has no reliable way to go out there and get objectives. Chimeras are not a solution; your opponent can take them out pretty easily because they're not Russes.

Let's say you're playing against Necrons and the other player gets first turn. That gives you about 2 turns of shooting before his 2 squads of Canoptek Wraiths reach your lines. Do yourself a favor and calculate whether you can kill a squad of 6 Necron Wraiths in one turn. T5, W2, 3++ save. Bear in mind that success means that you still have 3/4 of his army out there and you're still behind your aegis line, probably in a corner far from all the objectives.

OK, so what should i do to improve it ? should i just start from scratch ?

OK, so i have been thinking of things that will make my list more competitive and the things that came to mind were a Liberian Conclave and a Knight ! If you dont know what the 'Cerastus Knight-Castigator' does look at this link https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Warhammer_40000/Cerastus_Knight_Castigator.pdf It is hilariously OP !!! automatic hit all in base contact LOL and the model is badass. i still kept my favourite units in the list but instead of the tank formation i added things that are OP like forge world knights and pretty reliable invisibility LOL

Astra Militarum

HQ 610

Knight Commander Pask 70
Leman Russ Punisher 140
Lascannon 10
Multi-Melta Sponsons 20
Leman Russ Executioner 310
Plasmacannon 60

Troops 210

Veterans 60
Forward Sentries 10

Veterans 60
Forward Sentries 10

Veterans 60
Forward Sentries 10

Heavy Support 195

Wyvern 65

Wyvern 65

Wyvern 65

Lord of War 380

Cerastus Knight-Castigator 380

Librarian Conclaive 355

Chef Librarian Tigurius 165

Level 2 Librarian 90
Stormbolter 5

Level 2 Librarian 90
Stormbolter 5

Fortifications 100

Aegis Defence Line 50
Quadgun 50

Whilst I can see the glories of adding both the Librarius Conclave and Knight I feel you've lost the general feeling of your list.
But if you're looking to win, then the changes you've made are worthwhile.

I'd still say you'll be deployment zone camping though and walking with guardsmen if you're aiming to get to the objectives. Or running with the knight of course.

I wonder how much value a conclave with technomancy fishing would add to the list -- most of the powers are garbage, but having AV 15 russes sounds fun. Honestly, if you're not playing uber-competitively, a tank list is fine... as long as you mix in a few fast moving units and keep the wall of steel moving forward. Sure, there are lists that will wipe you off the table with Str D, etc, but hey... that goes for most of the "not top 10 meta lists" out there right now. I think I'd invest heavily in artillery and psychic powers, two things that IG can get for cheap these days that work. Also, my personal preference is to keep everything as cheap as possible.. forget the upgrades and roll it into a new tank. Flyers are back and I think the vendetta is still a nice one, albiet a little more expensive now.

Why not sneak some small ratling units in there? at 30 points a unit they have infiltrate so are great for grabbing objectives/ hiding in cover. Also forcing enemy to waste a turn of overpowered shooting to remove them - or he ignores them and they keep scoring - either way a major annoyance.

3 of them at 90 total will be a early source of objective points whist taking some heat off your tanks.

That way, you can keep your basic list theme.

EdwardRenus wrote:
Why not sneak some small ratling units in there? at 30 points a unit they have infiltrate so are great for grabbing objectives/ hiding in cover. Also forcing enemy to waste a turn of overpowered shooting to remove them - or he ignores them and they keep scoring - either way a major annoyance.

3 of them at 90 total will be a early source of objective points whist taking some heat off your tanks.

That way, you can keep your basic list theme.

I actually really like this idea and the ratling models are great i think i will use this idea thanks man.

EdwardRenus wrote:
Why not sneak some small ratling units in there? at 30 points a unit they have infiltrate so are great for grabbing objectives/ hiding in cover. Also forcing enemy to waste a turn of overpowered shooting to remove them - or he ignores them and they keep scoring - either way a major annoyance.

3 of them at 90 total will be a early source of objective points whist taking some heat off your tanks.

I've used Ratlings like this before, in a tournament that required you to take choices from every FOC slot. They performed surprisingly well (3 units of 3) and were easy to hide near objectives. They almost never fired though lol.

Sorry I'm late, here's my idea of a guard list:

Company command squad, master of ordnance, camo, lascannon
Ministorum priest
Ministorum priest
Primaris psyker
Infantry platoon:
Platoon command with autocannon
Infantry squad, lascannon
Infantry squad, lascannon
Heavy weapon squad, autocannons
Conscripts (50)
Infantry platoon:
Platoon command with autocannon
Infantry squad, lascannon
Infantry squad, lascannon
Conscripts (50)
Vendetta
Wyvern
Wyvern
Manticore

Imperial Knight. I don't know the variants, but you've got 429 points left. The knight castigator is 380? That leaves you 49 points. Drop some conscripts and/or change the loadout of one blob and you've got the points for an aegis.

Tactics: Push your blobs of conscripts forward, guarding the knight against melta. Blast them from range, and tie them in assaults with the blobs. Twin-link something with the primaris psyker each turn. Probably the manticore. Maybe a conscript squad if dealing with flying monstrous creatures.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I actually run Astra Militarum as allies and did very well in a recent tournament (3-0) with this list:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/695521.page

I will be changing the scout bike squad to a scout squad in order to fit in the master of ordnance, because my opponents have this tendency to castle up.

My point is that with strength D and invisibility all over the competitive scene, the unique strength guard has is large numbers and nearly infinite bubble-wrap, not AV14.

OK, i probably should not have brought 6 leman russ then :( i can see it was a mistake D weapon can one shot me and i have no objective grabbing ability.

Thanks for the feedback i will think about what to do maybe try get a refund on my tanks and get lots of infantry its a shame because i love the look of lots tanks

I know, they're beautiful :-(

Astra Militarum struck me from my youth as one of those things where GW was giving you a chance to win more of your games... if you were willing to buy and paint LOTS of dudes.

Lume wrote:
OK, i probably should not have brought 6 leman russ then :( i can see it was a mistake D weapon can one shot me and i have no objective grabbing ability.

Thanks for the feedback i will think about what to do maybe try get a refund on my tanks and get lots of infantry its a shame because i love the look of lots tanks

Will be interested to know if they will let you take them back.

If not do not panic. Running foot guard @1500 can be a PITA simply because of the number of models. Tanks could get a buff next codex, lumbering behemoth could return.

But yeah, many infantry squads(not combined), perhaps armed with lascannons have the effect of limiting the damage D weps can do per strike - whilst have some bite of their own. I can squeeze 18 lascannons in @1500, can down a wraithknight in one round of shooting.

Just try avoid getting stomped and stay spread out if they have blast weps - sounds a bit contradictory I know lol!