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Hello everyone, got a list I've been sitting on for some time wondering if its viable or even probable to field. Its the god damn infantry company from the Guard Decurion.

HQ:
CCS, Lascannon, Volkov's Cane
Lord Commissar, Power fist, Deathmask of Ollanius.

Core Formation:
CCS, Lascannon, Standard of the lost 113th

Platoon 1: Power Blob (Lord Commissar goes in here)
Platoon Command, Heavy Flamer.
5 infantry squads with 3 power axes on sarge's, the other two are challenge monkeys.
Scout Sentinel

Platoon 2: Sit and hold blob (maybe spread over two blobs or kept seperate)
Platoon Command, Auto Cannon.
5 infantry squads with an auto cannon and grenade launcher each.
Scout Sentinel

Platoon 3: MSU be annoying (kept seperate)
Platoon Command, Heavy Flamer, Melta Gun
5 infantry squads with a melta gun each.
Scout sentinel.

Fortification detachment: Wall of Martyrs Defense Network.
Wall of Martyrs Defense Line (pretty much an aegis that give units inside it stubborn)
Wall or Martyrs Defense Points (lets heavy weps shoot out of the trench and heavy weps reroll overwatch)
Imperial Bunker (Command Squad with Relic 113th standard go in here to increase the bubble of fearless)
Firestorm Redoubt with 2 quad iccarus lascannons (CCS with volkov's cane goes in here to stay safe and issue important orders)

So I've tried to make this work by using the fortifications to hunker down it so i dont have to move 178 models a turn, so the power blob goes in front of the defense line with the heavy weps blobs in the trenches going to ground for a 2+ and getting ordered back to their feet, the CCS with the banner plants if it it looks like the melee blob is going to die letting all my MSU units become fearless road blocks. I can add another Heavy weps squad with missiles or lascannons if i either drop the defense network and just take an aegis and the firestorm or drop the firestorm and take two bunkers.
So what are your thoughts, is this viable in any way or am i just setting myself up for a bad time and a sore back?

The biggest problem with this (and the main reason why most fortifications are a bit crap for AM) is that you cannot give orders from within a building or to a unit that is within a building. Why? Because all buildings in 40k are soundproof apparently... Similarly, the FAQ did away with AOE effects extending from an embarked building/vehicle, now those buffs are only conferred if the unit is actually physically deployed on the table. So your banner won't work from inside the bunker either.

I did not know you couldn't issue orders from inside a building that pretty much ruins using any fortification that isn't a defense line, but I was pretty sure with the FAQ becoming official the banner wouldn't extend further.
So with that in mind I switched out the whole wall of martyrs network for an aegis.
With the extra points i put melta bombs on all the sarges in the MSU platoon, 2 more power axes in the melee platoon and added 2 more HWT's. Wish i could take a Void shield generator but my meta uses community comp and its virtually banned.

The list now looks like this
HQ:
CCS, lascannon, volkov's cane.
Lord Commissar, Pfist, Deathmask of Ollanius

Infantry Company:
CCS, lascannon, Standard of the lost 113th

Platoon 1:
PCS, Hflamer
5X infantry squads with Paxes and flamer each
Scout Sent

Platoon 2:
PCS, Auto Cannon
HWT, Lascannons
HWT, Missile Launchers
5X Infantry Squads, Auto Cannon, grenade launcher each
Scout Sent

Platoon 3:
PCS, Melta Hflamer
5X Infantry Squads, Melta and Melta Bombs
Scout Sent

Fortification Detachment
Aegis

Feeling alot better about this list now, feels less cumbersome and alot more firepower, still got 50 points to spend any ideas?

I have looked and wondered about this formation.

That Standard of 113th is a great idea. An 18 inch fearless radius with all those msu is nothing to sneeze at! How will you keep the standard bearer safe?
All those bodies and no tanks - I imagine you are going to cause some mayhem. Spike out anything that can kill lots of infantry, ignore his dedicated AT units, flood the table with bodies, lolss.

50 points... a master of ordnance each for your two ccs? Are your ccs going to be moving around much?

EdwardRenus wrote:
I have looked and wondered about this formation.

That Standard of 113th is a great idea. An 18 inch fearless radius with all those msu is nothing to sneeze at! How will you keep the standard bearer safe?
All those bodies and no tanks - I imagine you are going to cause some mayhem. Spike out anything that can kill lots of infantry, ignore his dedicated AT units, flood the table with bodies, lolss.

50 points... a master of ordnance each for your two ccs? Are your ccs going to be moving around much?

Well i was planning to put the damn standard in a literal bunker, but that handicaps my orders pretty badly now, so i guess putting him behind the aegis and out of LOS if possible and going to ground if i feel a stiff breeze. But when I plant the banner and become fearless, no more going to ground so I might need to do some thinking.

Nah the CCS will be behind the aegis, with the volkov's cane dude next to the HWS and auto cannon platoon to give them no fail orders. 2 MOO sound pretty good, would love to get afew primaris psychers in there but damn cadian restrictions.

Yes hide the ccc/standard behind some terrain that is in a strategic spot.

I guess barrage or mobile jump/skimmer type units can still be a threat - depends if your opponent realises early on what the standard does. Prolly need to play few games with it and see how it plays out?

I suppose the other option would be to drop the standard and get 3 priests- 1 to fearless your big shooty blob and a couple of floaters with your msu?

EdwardRenus wrote:
Yes hide the ccc/standard behind some terrain that is in a strategic spot.

I guess barrage or mobile jump/skimmer type units can still be a threat - depends if your opponent realises early on what the standard does. Prolly need to play few games with it and see how it plays out?

I suppose the other option would be to drop the standard and get 3 priests- 1 to fearless your big shooty blob and a couple of floaters with your msu?

Can't get priests in the Cadian Detachment, there is no option for them, I know its debatable but thats how i read it.

Your right this army would been to be played extensively to get the hang of it, its just a list with so many variables. But i still like the idea. I think without the bunker for protection there isn't much i can do to protect the CCS from getting 1st turn killed, might have to drop some stuff and just buy another one to double down so losing 1 or two doesn't cost me 90% of my versatility.

Seeing as its debatable as to the priest situation, you could try fpr commissars instead. You've got access to five regular ones as well in.your list, one from each command squad.

Yes commissars will stop them breaking.

Or can sneak a few men of the cloth in with an allied detachment?

A priest could come in handy in that blob with the power axes

EdwardRenus wrote:
Yes commissars will stop them breaking.

Or can sneak a few men of the cloth in with an allied detachment?

A priest could come in handy in that blob with the power axes

Unfortunately would have to be CAD, Allied can't be of the same faction as the primary detachment.

My very first list without any fortifications had 2 regular commissars and the lord, 1 regular one went in the heavy wepons blob and the other one went into the power axe blob or if i split the heavy weps platoon or blob up any of the melta platoon. Probably the only smart thing to do now.

Any of you guy had a game or seen any one using this formation, only thing i've seen was a batrep on miniwargaming and they got so many rules wrong it was rough to watch.

Nah I not ever seen it in action.

I reckon the basic idea of one firebase, one assault group and one msu group is good - so I started playing around.

Looking at in battlescribe I have stripped it down to 1330 points with a view to adding on later
ADL
1 ccs+moo
1 lascannon blob+commissar
1 msu group with meltaguns
1 poweraxe blob + commissar

The list has plenty of lasgun fire to deal with troops. I figure the biggest threat to this list is GC or knights spam. Hence the lascanons as lots of GC have a 3+ and autocannons may struggle. Now how to get prescience, would a psykana division be a go? Or an aerial company with 3 vendettas and an officer of fleet? People say a full HWT are a nono as expensive, fragile and often blocked by los or own army but you may have found them good?.

Unless you're talking about a 40-50 man conscript squad, being "fearless" or "stubborn" is of relatively little value to the IG, in my opinion. I mean, if you want a tarpit, its fine.. but overrated when you're talking about T3 guardsmen. I haven't played my guard in a while, because, honestly.. they're just not that fun/good since 5th. You can *try* to make them all sorts of things, but they're really not good at any of them. Armored columns get eaten up by D and HP-plinking... conscript blobs are fun in theory, until you have to assemble 100 infantry and then take 5 hours moving them around the table. There a few extreme builds out there that are salvageable, like the daemon-summoning wyrdvanes.. but i was disappointed when i dropped the money on the Mont'ka book. Most of the formations were a direct copy and paste from apocalypse and the perks don't justify the tax. The artilllery one is fun.. i guess... if you have basalisks laying around... but the rules are redundant for wyveryns, which are the only really good entry in the latest IG codex. I dunno... i just think the formations they gave us add very little in terms of utility and its easier to stick to CAD lists.

Whatever happens you definitely dont want a 40 man blob of any description running off the table after an assault - hence fearless is important.

But yeah the tanks are pretty darn bad. Pods, d weps, lance weps, etc combined with high cost and mediocre firepower output - meh why go there.

pure infantry lists have worked good for me. Yes the number of models is a hassle but up 1k points its not too painful.

I wonder what direction the next codex will go.

I agree with the vast majority of whats being said. I do still hold some hope of playing a competitive guard list, I've even started a blog about the journey to win an event with guard as my primary detachment.
What I am seeing as the main issues of the dex are its complete lack of dynamic options and formations that back up the natural ability of dynamic options, for example eldar aspect host.

Where I see guard still being strong is in the ability to take a list with a very overhelming aspect, like the formation in the title of this discussion, having 173 bodies on the board is very hard to sift through for alot of armies, especially ones that rely on one or two units to do all their damage.
Another example is taking massed tanks, and i mean MASSED, i recently went 3-1-1 at an event using the cadian battlegroup with pask (punisher) buddy executioner HQ, then the armoured battlegroup with a command exterminator with buddy eradicator, another eradicator, vanquisher and a demolisher, i coupled that with the assault company to go get objectives and it worked really well, the vets swarmed objectives and usually within 2 turns my tanks had killed everything that could kill them, MVP every game was my banewolf though, kept him in reserves and waited for people to drop pod their grav or melta and walked the banewolf on and got its points back in 1 template 4 games in a row (the preferred enemy from the formation is amazing on this tank).
I guess my third example would have to be the current flavor of the month, Psycana division, having an overwhelming psychic phase coupled with a strong firebase is a good sauce.

Maybe I just haven't been playing guard long enough to get disheartened, or maybe my meta is a bit on the forgiving side, but i think there are still things to try and I would really enjoy seeing the look in my opponents eye when i start plopping down 173 guardsmen, or when i pick up 150 dice for 1 platoons shooting phase.

Some tournaments, including ITC format, don't allow fortification networks. In this case, You'd need a Combined Arms Detachment for each building.

 axisofentropy wrote:
Some tournaments, including ITC format, don't allow fortification networks. In this case, You'd need a Combined Arms Detachment for each building.

Its been established that the fortifications are balls, as you can't issue orders out of them and they no longer extend the radius of aura effects. The have been dropped in favor of more heavy wepons squads, melta bombs and a aegis,

Are you keen to keep it pure IG or would you be adverse to running a small amount of imperial allies?

Coteaz is one of the best buys possible for a blob squad - ML2, decent CC ability, 2 plus save, reroll to seize, LD 10, psych-out grenades and a 12 inch version of interceptor. All for 100pts

Also a culexus assassin would help ensure your hundred odd lasguns are cutting down psychic deathstars like they should be.

I think both of these are reasonably fluffy choices for IG. You mentioned using lascannons for dealing with gargantuan creatures. In my opinion they just aren't cost effective to do the job, and guard don't really have anything better (besides a pask punisher which would be a bit out of place in this infantry list). I personally use ravenwing grav bikers, though I appreciate its departing from the guard theme a bit!

 DoomMouse wrote:
Are you keen to keep it pure IG or would you be adverse to running a small amount of imperial allies?

Coteaz is one of the best buys possible for a blob squad - ML2, decent CC ability, 2 plus save, reroll to seize, LD 10, psych-out grenades and a 12 inch version of interceptor. All for 100pts

Also a culexus assassin would help ensure your hundred odd lasguns are cutting down psychic deathstars like they should be.

I think both of these are reasonably fluffy choices for IG. You mentioned using lascannons for dealing with gargantuan creatures. In my opinion they just aren't cost effective to do the job, and guard don't really have anything better (besides a pask punisher which would be a bit out of place in this infantry list). I personally use ravenwing grav bikers, though I appreciate its departing from the guard theme a bit!

Yes Culexus or Coteaz seem amazing, now why on gods green earth dont GW offer an android or paperback codex for those two factions?