Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Does anyone have experience owning and operating a games store? I'm possibly looking at starting one in the Chicago area, sometime in the next year or so, but would like to have SOME idea of what I'm getting into.

US gov Small business Admin is what you should look into lots of information you might want to look at

https://www.sba.gov

 Chute82 wrote:
US gov Small business Admin is what you should look into lots of information you might want to look at

https://www.sba.gov

Thanks for the link!

in Chicago? good luck, as it goes if going to start a game store remember Magic: the Gathering and Yu-Gi-Oh those are where you will make your money, miniatures are slow and random sellers, RPG sales are almost non-existent, find a location that is popular or near a High School or College, that is where your money will be, but sadly rent will be high too, so try areas where teens and college kids hang out, also don't go into this thinking you will become rich, you will not, be glad if you break even each month.

OP: Your profile says you're 19 and have been wargaming for less than 2 years?

If that's right, I'd strongly suggest going out and getting some more experience, in life, work and the hobby, before undertaking a task which statistically has every chance of not working out.

You can use the time to try and accumulate some capital too, because unless your family are wealthy enough to support you irrespective of what you do, how successful it is or how much it costs, you'll need more than a little bit of cash behind you to stand a chance.

 JNAProductions wrote:
but would like to have SOME idea of what I'm getting into.

I'm possibly looking at starting one in the Chicago area, sometime in the next year or so,

No you're not.

You're not only lacking a business plan this close to your proposed Go time, but are so far from square one that you don't even know where it is.

Try and answer this question - how are you not going to lose your shirt going into a business that has a 90% plus failure rate?

 Bookwrack wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
but would like to have SOME idea of what I'm getting into.

I'm possibly looking at starting one in the Chicago area, sometime in the next year or so,

No you're not.

You're not only lacking a business plan this close to your proposed Go time, but are so far from square one that you don't even know where it is.

Try and answer this question - how are you not going to lose your shirt going into a business that has a 90% plus failure rate?

Well that's discouraging. I do appreciate the advice, even if the advice boils down to "Don't do it". So thanks guys.

Owning a hobby store is a fine idea. However, you need to run it like a store. That means you first need to know how a store operates. Do you have any retail experience?

And it's a business. Have you got a plan for all of your costs and revenues?

See this thread on Dakka. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/700467.page

There are websites / blogs from store owners. Google them and read those.

This thread topic comes up a lot. Right here on the front page, we've got a 6 page thread, 'How do FLGS make money and stay in business?' And as the thread shows, its hard work and a lot of them don't.

I live in the Chicago area too and know the local games and GW stores. What research have you done on the competition? How will you get people to choose to come to your store when there are a lot of popular alternatives?

That's why in threads like these, the first question should really be, 'do you have a business plan? What research have you done?' Not having a positive answer to those leaves you in a position like, "I really want to open a restaurant. What do I need ot know about cooking?"

 JNAProductions wrote:
Does anyone have experience owning and operating a games store? I'm possibly looking at starting one in the Chicago area, sometime in the next year or so, but would like to have SOME idea of what I'm getting into.

A clusterfeth. Unless you have a solid business plan, an entreprenuerial mindset, and a willingness to work 60+ hour weeks for the first four years, go do something else. Don't buy yourself a job.

Good for you, not enough young folk want to be bankrupt before their 21st birthday.

Don't let the naysayers put you off you really don't need a good credit rating for the next 50-60 years.

/sarcasm.

Go work in a shop first get some experience of retail, save up a crap ton of money for when business goes poorly the first few months(and it will) and then consider it.

Some of the other posts could look a bit discouraging and harsh, but it's true this is the type of thing you need to really take your time with to make sure you're going to be steady to kick it off. I'd say research through working in related jobs like retail, that experience with dealing with customers will be invaluable for your store. Even better if you somehow end up as a manager at some retail place as that's just more skills for it, study up on running a business as well and keep saving for it while you do all this. It's a bit daunting at first with what has to be done, but it can be broken up into fairly easy to do chunks; just need to accept this is something that's going to take a bit of time to get running. No need to rush to it.

There is already a thread like this with a lot of great information. Try looking for it. I will post a link if I see it. Should be on the page one here.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/700467.page

Here you go.

Good luck.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Does anyone have experience owning and operating a games store? I'm possibly looking at starting one in the Chicago area, sometime in the next year or so, but would like to have SOME idea of what I'm getting into.

Aside from reading through the other thread, You may consider starting small, and selling online. Establish capital with used minis at a reasonable price, and be prompt in service, and communication.

Start with a few boxes of GW/ PP/Infinity/Mantic/etc, resell them at a small profit, and continue to push forward. Set yourself up a Webpage, and start study on the nuts and bolts of business.

Accounting.
Statistics.
Management.
Supply/ Logistics.
Advertising.
Web Presence/ Social media.

Chicago is a .... different animal for a market. You won't do yourself any favors running a small business there. Ask local and surrounding business owners for their imput, and do your reaserch.

When we talk about a "Business Plan", that is basicly a skeleton of your business on how you are developing and running it with everything in there to see and plan/discuss. It is your working document on your personal business.

Just a sample, you can find a template and develop your own online.
http://www.bplans.com/womens_clothing_boutique_business_plan/executive_summary_fc.php

You have to do market research, develop a funding plan, research on your product, etc.etc.etc...
https://www.sba.gov/starting-business/business-financials/developing-cash-flow-analysis

Cash is king. You need some start up, and then continue to acquire and spend it wisely for the sole purpose of making more. In a game store, its more then just play games with your mates, you run it like a business. Run it like your selling widgets, and you will be better off then just "Local gamer king."

Good luck.

As you can tell, there is a lot you might not have considered that you really should.

Are you doing this on your own or have is there more people wanting to do this?

While sharing the burden is beneficial in that it relieves some of the pressure off of you, it also adds the stress of partners...and sometimes going into business with friends is a sure fire way to lose those friends. Getting a loan? Unless you already have amazing credit, you will need a cosigner. Which means, for better or worse, you will have a partner who may know more than you or may not know anything about the market you are aiming for.

If you are doing it on your own, then you only answer to yourself...and have to carry the financial burden of it all by yourself.

Opening a hobby store is worthwhile, but not easy...not in the slightest. As was said above, your don't want to buy yourself a job.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Bookwrack wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
but would like to have SOME idea of what I'm getting into.

I'm possibly looking at starting one in the Chicago area, sometime in the next year or so,

No you're not.

You're not only lacking a business plan this close to your proposed Go time, but are so far from square one that you don't even know where it is.

Try and answer this question - how are you not going to lose your shirt going into a business that has a 90% plus failure rate?

Well that's discouraging. I do appreciate the advice, even if the advice boils down to "Don't do it". So thanks guys.

It should be discouraging...

Running your own store is hard, VERY hard. You simply cannot compete with big stores offering deep discounts on the internet so you have to offer something else. CCG's are obligatory, they're what will keep your store afloat, tabletop gaming just won't do it on its own.

In general, the current marked is quite hostile towards brick'n'mortar stores. So unless you're very sure of what you're doing, I'd not recommend going that route.

put it this way if Magic and Yu-Gi-Oh ever drop in popularity B&M game stores will vanish from the face of the earth.

Asterios wrote:
put it this way if Magic and Yu-Gi-Oh ever drop in popularity B&M game stores will vanish from the face of the earth.

That's why you need to have a plan that doesn't rely on a specific game or two.

Here in Kalamazoo, MI one of our most successful hobby stores in the area has been around since 1983. They have managed to survive through a lot because they have a diverse stock of items for sale that doesn't focus solely on being a game store.

Each department of the store breaks down like this:
Toys (new and second hand)
Baseball/Football/Sport cards (they sell on consignment or new packs)
Comics (new and old)
Movies (buy and sell)
RPGs/Board games/CCGs (New and used)
Video Games (Buy and sell)
TTWG (They don't sell the GW or PP games)
Various novelty fandom items and artwork.

They also work conventions in order to help sell back stock stuff and get their name out there. This requires more staff and more money that they can afford.

Kalamazoo is also not that big so it is easier for them to be the place to go to above all else. Although, I have yet to find a store that has the selection they have even in their individual departments so it makes them a destination for people across Michigan.

The owner also hires people who knows their stuff and is willing to work but not be the stereotypical anti-customer geek in a hobby store. He also doesn't hire his friends so they can get paid to hang out.

 ProtoClone wrote:

Asterios wrote:
put it this way if Magic and Yu-Gi-Oh ever drop in popularity B&M game stores will vanish from the face of the earth.

That's why you need to have a plan that doesn't rely on a specific game or two.

Here in Kalamazoo, MI one of our most successful hobby stores in the area has been around since 1983. They have managed to survive through a lot because they have a diverse stock of items for sale that doesn't focus solely on being a game store.

Each department of the store breaks down like this:
Toys (new and second hand)
Baseball/Football/Sport cards (they sell on consignment or new packs)
Comics (new and old)
Movies (buy and sell)
RPGs/Board games/CCGs (New and used)
Video Games (Buy and sell)
TTWG (They don't sell the GW or PP games)
Various novelty fandom items and artwork.

They also work conventions in order to help sell back stock stuff and get their name out there. This requires more staff and more money that they can afford.

Kalamazoo is also not that big so it is easier for them to be the place to go to above all else. Although, I have yet to find a store that has the selection they have even in their individual departments so it makes them a destination for people across Michigan.

The owner also hires people who knows their stuff and is willing to work but not be the stereotypical anti-customer geek in a hobby store. He also doesn't hire his friends so they can get paid to hang out.

problem is games stores survived in the 80's then in the early 90's they started dying, but then Magic came it started small then started to grow which rejuvenated games stores like you mentioned, but even Magic will eventually die which is already happening, and with the market being spread thinly by any type of comic, game store using it to survive competition is fierce for a market that is slowly dying.

Asterios wrote:

 ProtoClone wrote:

Asterios wrote:
put it this way if Magic and Yu-Gi-Oh ever drop in popularity B&M game stores will vanish from the face of the earth.

That's why you need to have a plan that doesn't rely on a specific game or two.

Here in Kalamazoo, MI one of our most successful hobby stores in the area has been around since 1983. They have managed to survive through a lot because they have a diverse stock of items for sale that doesn't focus solely on being a game store.

Each department of the store breaks down like this:
Toys (new and second hand)
Baseball/Football/Sport cards (they sell on consignment or new packs)
Comics (new and old)
Movies (buy and sell)
RPGs/Board games/CCGs (New and used)
Video Games (Buy and sell)
TTWG (They don't sell the GW or PP games)
Various novelty fandom items and artwork.

They also work conventions in order to help sell back stock stuff and get their name out there. This requires more staff and more money that they can afford.

Kalamazoo is also not that big so it is easier for them to be the place to go to above all else. Although, I have yet to find a store that has the selection they have even in their individual departments so it makes them a destination for people across Michigan.

The owner also hires people who knows their stuff and is willing to work but not be the stereotypical anti-customer geek in a hobby store. He also doesn't hire his friends so they can get paid to hang out.

problem is games stores survived in the 80's then in the early 90's they started dying, but then Magic came it started small then started to grow which rejuvenated games stores like you mentioned, but even Magic will eventually die which is already happening, and with the market being spread thinly by any type of comic, game store using it to survive competition is fierce for a market that is slowly dying.

As long as the business owner is smart about it, the loss of either Magic or Yu-Gi-Oh won't hurt the business. That's the key, not relying on a product or two to keep you going as in the example that I gave.

 ProtoClone wrote:

Asterios wrote:

 ProtoClone wrote:

Asterios wrote:
put it this way if Magic and Yu-Gi-Oh ever drop in popularity B&M game stores will vanish from the face of the earth.

That's why you need to have a plan that doesn't rely on a specific game or two.

Here in Kalamazoo, MI one of our most successful hobby stores in the area has been around since 1983. They have managed to survive through a lot because they have a diverse stock of items for sale that doesn't focus solely on being a game store.

Each department of the store breaks down like this:
Toys (new and second hand)
Baseball/Football/Sport cards (they sell on consignment or new packs)
Comics (new and old)
Movies (buy and sell)
RPGs/Board games/CCGs (New and used)
Video Games (Buy and sell)
TTWG (They don't sell the GW or PP games)
Various novelty fandom items and artwork.

They also work conventions in order to help sell back stock stuff and get their name out there. This requires more staff and more money that they can afford.

Kalamazoo is also not that big so it is easier for them to be the place to go to above all else. Although, I have yet to find a store that has the selection they have even in their individual departments so it makes them a destination for people across Michigan.

The owner also hires people who knows their stuff and is willing to work but not be the stereotypical anti-customer geek in a hobby store. He also doesn't hire his friends so they can get paid to hang out.

problem is games stores survived in the 80's then in the early 90's they started dying, but then Magic came it started small then started to grow which rejuvenated games stores like you mentioned, but even Magic will eventually die which is already happening, and with the market being spread thinly by any type of comic, game store using it to survive competition is fierce for a market that is slowly dying.

As long as the business owner is smart about it, the loss of either Magic or Yu-Gi-Oh won't hurt the business. That's the key, not relying on a product or two to keep you going as in the example that I gave.

It's always going to hurt the business when a revenue stream dies off.

At the end of the day you need all your revenue streams to be larger than it costs to keep the doors open, if CCG's are the only thing that can do that, then losing them is going to be fatal. Expanding to more products is better protection, but you still have to make sure you can get that stock in at a low enough price and wide enough range to draw customers. I've seen shops fail where they try to be diverse but fail to stock the shelves with appealing products and fail to compete on price.

Having a diverse range is a nice idea, but unless you have a lot of money to burn it's something you have to build up to, the outlay to have stock on the shelves is huge and if you need a bigger store to carry the stock and pay employees the costs are huge and the risks are huge. If a small store fails you can be 10's of thousands in debt, it a large store fails you can be 100's of thousands in debt.

One of the most successful hobby stores out here is a big diverse store as well.... but they're owned by one of the biggest hobby distributors in the country so they tend to get stock before other stores and manage to sell for less than other stores (I've discussed with other hobby store owners who have said they'd be out of business in a month if they tried to price match because the margins would be too slim).

As others have said, starting your own business can be hard. It can literally take years to build up a solid customer base, one that you can depend on, and you're going to need to delve deep into your own pockets in that time.

My advice to you would be to ease into it... start a gaming group one night a week... hire a space somewhere, and see who turns up. If it goes well, maybe start breaking boxes and selling bits and lose MTG card at the club. Then try two nights a week. If you're able to make that work without wanting to curl up into the foetal position every time you think about the club, then maybe you can open three nights a week, and start moving bigger stock.

You want to be able to diversify a bit too... try selling stuff online, (you can start with ebay and go from there). If you do move to a perminant space, diversify that too... sell coffee and snacks in the morning when gaming traffic is slow, sell craft stuff like beads. Anything you can think of to squeeze every cent out of that space... You're gonna need it when the bill for your rent arrives each month.

Good luck, you're gonna need it.

well several things to consider is your bills:

1: rent
2: power
3: Insurance
4: other utilities and garbage
5: cost of supplies

this doesn't include other things like product, advertising and materials needed for the store like register, tables, shelves, displays and so forth. you will be looking at about $100K start up for a small business, anything less then that and you will not last long.

Yeah, after hearing the advice on this thread, I'm considering something a little more realistic and attainable. An online gaming store-like was suggested earlier. So no rent needed!

Edit: Well, not more than where I already live.

You should also look into approaching banks to see if they will even give you a loan to start the business. Also inquire into how much it would cost to rent out a potential property - that's one of your largest expenses.

 gossipmeng wrote:
You should also look into approaching banks to see if they will even give you a loan to start the business. Also inquire into how much it would cost to rent out a potential property - that's one of your largest expenses.

Well, as it stands, I'd want to start right now as a solely online business, so rent will not be an issue.

Are you currently going to school? College, trade school, something like that?

I ask because if you are, it isn't a great time to start a store, but it is a good time to make friends and acquaintances who might be good future partners on projects. More importantly, it is a good time to get some business skills and general job skills so that you can work a "regular" job and make decent money as you save every last penny getting your game stuff web store off the ground. It takes a long time to make enough money to live off of, but if you have a decent job you can afford to go a long time.

Generally though, expect to work a lot harder than you would working for someone else, and for less money. Owning your own store is a dream for many people, which means that you are competing against people who don't care about the money or the hard work so much. They say "where there's muck there's brass", and it's true; the opposite is also true.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Well, as it stands, I'd want to start right now as a solely online business, so rent will not be an issue.

Then you don't understand what is required to run a business. An online business has to pay rent because you need somewhere to keep all of your inventory. You can save money on rent because you don't need to rent a space in a high-traffic area where customers want to go, but you still need space. You aren't going to run a business out of your garage unless you're selling so few items that you don't make any money.

Also, if you're starting an online store you are going to fail and lose money, period. There is nothing you can do to make yourself more appealing than the existing online stores, and that means nobody is going to buy from you. If starting an offline store is a risky decision starting an online-only store is equivalent to setting a pile of money on fire.

There are as as many costs involved in operating a online business as there are for a Bricks and Mortar.

Ideas to your question:

1. You should have an online store.
2. You may want to be located near a college or two, those kids may be your main revenue source.
3. Events events events!
4. Make it the ultimate hangout spot.
5. Have an entire section where people can play computer games too, you get more foot traffic that way. Don't bother with your own computers, gamers just bring in there own laptops.