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My possessed all of them came on 25mm bases, I understand that the new ones are on 40mm bases. In a tournament setting... do I have to upgrade the bases?

Same question, I have a great unclean on that came on a 40mm square base, I have since upgraded to a 60mm round base... the new one sits on a 130mm round base.... does that need to be upgraded?

 Sazzlefrats wrote:
My possessed all of them came on 25mm bases, I understand that the new ones are on 40mm bases. In a tournament setting... do I have to upgrade the bases?

Same question, I have a great unclean on that came on a 40mm square base, I have since upgraded to a 60mm round base... the new one sits on a 130mm round base.... does that need to be upgraded?

25mm to 40mm is probably about the limit of what's okay-though, of course, ask your Tournament Organizer if you are gonna participate.
60mm to 130mm is a BIG deal-though given that GUOs have an aura, it's probably a nerf to you rather than a buff, but still not really accurate to the model. Again, ask your TO if you're playing in a tournament.

If you're playing with friends, just check with them how they want it handled.

Classic greater daemon models are basically Daemon Princes, now.

 Sazzlefrats wrote:
My possessed all of them came on 25mm bases, I understand that the new ones are on 40mm bases. In a tournament setting... do I have to upgrade the bases?

Every tournament is different, so this question needs to be directed to the tournament organizer of the tournament in questions.

That being said, it is common for larger tournaments to require models to be mounted on bases of the size supplied for that unit in the kit currently being sold by Games Workshop.

Ask the event organisers is always the best answer because every event is different. Some are super casual, some are super strict. You won't know till you ask them.


In general if you're going to compete I'd expect the standard to be models to the right size and base size for what they currently are as released by GW.

There are a lot of base-adaptors out on the market now that work really well; going up is easy you just get the attachment you need and glue your current base into the expander and its done.


Greater Demons are a touch different because not only did the base size go up but the model increased in size too. This does impact line of slight. As noted above the old Greater Demon models are basically a Demon Prince now in size; the new models are the old Forgeworld sie and are much taller/bigger all round. So chances are you'd be expected to use models of a similar size.

Why is this a question? I mean, honestly. It literally pops up at least 1-2 times a month. Last time it was slightly less blatant with 32mm-40mm. Now with 25mm-40mm? Why even use bases? Or models? Just tell your opponent your models are on the table. If they can't see them, it's their fault.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Why is this a question? I mean, honestly. It literally pops up at least 1-2 times a month.

I'm guessing because there's always new/returning players running into this issue who didn't read the previous posts on the subject.

ccs wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Why is this a question? I mean, honestly. It literally pops up at least 1-2 times a month.

I'm guessing because there's always new/returning players running into this issue who didn't read the previous posts on the subject.

And there have been conflicting answers over the years. “Use the base the model came with” and “use the size it currently ships with” have both been the correct answer depending who/when you asked.

Add to that, the pros and cons of being on a larger/smaller base largely even out. They will give an edge in one situation and a drawback in another.

If people have put a lot of work into their bases, it’s also a practical question of having to rebase an army. Not a hypothetical, in a perfect world kinda question. But am I going to have to take a knife to finished minis, or get base extenders; the actual work in making it happen question. That can be a huge undertaking. So “does it really mater” is a very important.

And from a game play POV, it’s largely a wash. But some people do have an issue with it, and tournaments definitely do. So check with your opponent/TO. In my experience, most people are fine with whatever you have at the FLGS, but YMMV.

There are no rules on base size.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
There are no rules on base size.

Yes there is. It's on the box/setup instructions. A current Space Marine comes with an "x"mm base size. All the recent GW event packs now say "Wherever possible, base your models according to their current boxed kit." So no, you can't slide your 2nd edition metal Avatar into a "plays as" current avatar in a matched competitive game, because it's obviously not the current standard. Or even close. In ANY metric. (This is an example, not saying you personally are doing this)

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
There are no rules on base size.

Yes there is. It's on the box/setup instructions.

That is not at all in the 40k Rulebook...

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
There are no rules on base size.

Yes there is. It's on the box/setup instructions. A current Space Marine comes with an "x"mm base size.

Having just (finally) built the last of the minis that came in my HH starter box I can tell you for a fact that there's no instructions in that kits assembly guide as to what size of base to use.
Sure, it shows you pics of marines/termies/etc going onto bases. But there's no actual mention of size.

ccs wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
There are no rules on base size.

Yes there is. It's on the box/setup instructions. A current Space Marine comes with an "x"mm base size.

Having just (finally) built the last of the minis that came in my HH starter box I can tell you for a fact that there's no instructions in that kits assembly guide as to what size of base to use.
Sure, it shows you pics of marines/termies/etc going onto bases. But there's no actual mention of size.

At least some kits tell you explicit the base size to use, and have a little actual size guide so you know which is which. Not sure how new or widespread that is. GW is getting better at addressing the issue. Of course, there have been times where they sold the same model with different sized bases at the same time, so they don’t exactly have a clean record here.

As to if the build instructions are part of the rules, that’s a MFA/WYSWYG rabbit hole I’m personally tired of going down.

My Deathleaper instructions on the other hand do state the base size.


This is another one of those areas where GW tries to have their cake and eat it whilst trying to change the flavour of the cake each month.



Basically base size does influence gameplay mechanics. Therefore one would assume that the current edition of the rules and the stats that models have; is built around the properties of those models on the table. Including their rough volume (as line of sight is a thing) and their base size.

Therefore any competitive event that's aiming to use the current rules set, will aim to use the current formal base size on models.



This only gets tricky because GW changes base sizes almost on a whim these days and have even had the same model on different base sizes depending on which set you bought them from. Not just when, but which set released at the same time (I recall Tyranid Warriors had at least two base sizes released at the same time at one point).

GW also has made many changes ove the last few editions, mostly in increasing base size on a bunch of models.



Most other games on the market don't really do this at all. They set a base size and that's basically it for the models and model range. Why GW feels the need to do this when their rule design is casual at best in terms of how they put their rules together - its anyone's guess. Sometimes it even feels like picking and packing just changes the size on a whim.



Suffice to say you CAN find out the current base size in a box and most formal events want to be on the current standard which means using what's current.
Casual play is normally more flexible/doesn't care so much.





NOTE there are a few exceptions and the Greater Demons would be an example of this because they got a huge increase in size between their metal/finecast versions and their current plastic ones. At double the size or more they are one of the few examples where the old model does not count at all. Honestly this kind of change is much rarer, most of the time its small scale creep or base size creep that happens;

I’m pretty sure the base size is set by the modeling team, and they just send it over to the rules team with a “have fun!”

We have things like the neurogaunts have a nodebeast leader type, on a larger base, but no rules to differentiate him. Or units like the sister’s hospitalier with a fallen sister on a silly large base for what she is.

But I agree that base size is a lot of “have cake/eat cake” There are a lot of legacy models out there in the hands of a lot of players. Every time they change base size it generates a lot of bad blood. Invalidating people’s collection is not something to do lightly. On one hand they want rules that work. and base size does impact that. But they want cool looking minis. With new minis comes scale creep and larger bases.

It’s a huge mess, which they largely ignore. It might be in the event pack, but that’s not RAW for general play. There are rules for a specific events. You could read them as RAI, if they are GW events. As binding as any ruling from a TO. By not formalizing it in the core rules they keep things vague enough not to have to deal with legacy models or their own inconsistencies.

The length of complex mental gymnastics one has to go through for justification on YMDC is astounding.

I literally said "Wherever possible, base your models according to their current boxed kit."

And still people are whipping out examples of "This box of models I bought in 1982 has no instructions!!! Or from a completely different game!

Get over it. Everyone knows the rules, try going to a GW produced major with you casted minis on the wrong base sizes, and see what the organizers say the rules are.

The only reason threads like this exist is so people can seek internet justification for something they already know the answer to, but are unhappy with it. If you have to ask the question, Can I use this? Then you clearly know on some level there is a rules discrepancy somewhere, indicating you can't.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
The length of complex mental gymnastics one has to go through for justification on YMDC is astounding.

I literally said "Wherever possible, base your models according to their current boxed kit."

And still people are whipping out examples of "This box of models I bought in 1982 has no instructions!!! Or from a completely different game!

Get over it. Everyone knows the rules, try going to a GW produced major with you casted minis on the wrong base sizes, and see what the organizers say the rules are.

The only reason threads like this exist is so people can seek internet justification for something they already know the answer to, but are unhappy with it. If you have to ask the question, Can I use this? Then you clearly know on some level there is a rules discrepancy somewhere, indicating you can't.

Everyone does not know the rules hence the questions. And the fact that there is not a clear RAW in the core rules makes it a valid question.

RAW is silent (unless someone can show me a current core rule citation)
RAI is use the base size of the most current produced model. (IMHO, based on things like GW event packs)
HIWPI for friendly games is use whatever the mini is on. With a few obvious exceptions of drastic scale creep or MFA, base size is mostly a wash, so let just get playing. For organized play check with the TO. Because their opinion is the one that’s relevant to your game, not mine.