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I run 2 exorcists at 1500. I would run a 3rd at a higher point level. The avenger doesn't really appeal to me, as I don't really understand what role it'll fill. Exorcists excel at taking out heavy infantry MEQ and TEQ and light transports (only approx 33% chance of penning av12 anything less than that is gravy), we can bring loads of melta, some of which ignores cover to handle the heavy stuff and lots of flamer weapons for light infantry such as GEQ.

What is the niche of the avenger?

D

It's excellent at shooting down other flyers and killing flying monsterous creatures.

Believe it or not I'm yet to fight a FMC. No one in my meta uses them and I've always found Exorcists to be adequate at taking down fliers as they're generally quite fragile, apart from the Storm Raven. Sure they don't excel in the role but how many do you see in a typical list?

D

I am a fan of 3 exorcists personally. I've run the Avenger once or twice and was never impressed.

I will occasionally run Rets if I have a bastion in my list, but that's about it.

I haven't tried my rets since the digi-dex. I got a bastion for them prior but haven't finished painting it, so I never use it with the WD rules. :(

I'll give them a run out at somepoint I suspect...

D

 evildrcheese wrote:
I haven't tried my rets since the digi-dex. I got a bastion for them prior but haven't finished painting it, so I never use it with the WD rules. :(

I'll give them a run out at somepoint I suspect...

D

They are still good. Don't get me wrong. 2 rounds of faith that is reliable is better than 5 rounds that it a coin toss. THe thing that frustrated me the most under the 5th ed rules was that I failed their faith all the freaking time. I know it's just a 4+ but still. I'll take my Ld9 or Ld9 with reroll over a 4+ any day.

I'm running 2 Exo's and an ASF, though for higher point games where i can DFO I might go ADL/Rets for saturation anti-air fire (my meta is loaded with flyers.)

I'm not sure to use the Avenger as anti-tank or anti-infantry, as with the missile launchers it can do both. I'll play around with that and see what happens.

 pretre wrote:

 evildrcheese wrote:
I haven't tried my rets since the digi-dex. I got a bastion for them prior but haven't finished painting it, so I never use it with the WD rules. :(

I'll give them a run out at somepoint I suspect...

D

They are still good. Don't get me wrong. 2 rounds of faith that is reliable is better than 5 rounds that it a coin toss. THe thing that frustrated me the most under the 5th ed rules was that I failed their faith all the freaking time. I know it's just a 4+ but still. I'll take my Ld9 or Ld9 with reroll over a 4+ any day.

Yeah the 4+ wasn't sup[er reliable, but they were always useful for board control, 36" range of potential rending shots could mess with your opponents heads. I guess they still have that to a certain extent, but now once you've used your faith or if they manage to snipe your Sim Imp then they really lose their shine.

Do you know what used to bug me most with the WD dex and Rets? When I passed the faith test but then failed to get a single rending wound. Seemed to happen far more than the averages should've allowed.

D

If the Avenger was a nicer model - I would buy one

 Mr Morden wrote:
If the Avenger was a nicer model - I would buy one

Just make your own!

tbh I don't like any of the GW Marine flyers - Forgeworld Storm Eagle yes - rest no......

Love the Valkyrie and the Eldar flyers...........

Not sure how the Valkyrie compares in size to the Valkyrie - I have one painted in Sororitas colours but don't want to called out on sizes if its too small etc.........

I've seen Valykrie conversions to Avenger as well. Google popped up a couple.

Hmm might run it by my group and see if they are happy and try it out.............

You might need to do some conversion for weapons, but that's pretty easy. Get a rotary cannon under the nose and 2 lascannons on the wing hard points.

Commisioned the following from my friend Ash

 evildrcheese wrote:
I run 2 exorcists at 1500. I would run a 3rd at a higher point level. The avenger doesn't really appeal to me, as I don't really understand what role it'll fill. Exorcists excel at taking out heavy infantry MEQ and TEQ and light transports (only approx 33% chance of penning av12 anything less than that is gravy), we can bring loads of melta, some of which ignores cover to handle the heavy stuff and lots of flamer weapons for light infantry such as GEQ.

What is the niche of the avenger?

D

 evildrcheese wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 evildrcheese wrote:
I haven't tried my rets since the digi-dex. I got a bastion for them prior but haven't finished painting it, so I never use it with the WD rules. :(

I'll give them a run out at somepoint I suspect...

D

They are still good. Don't get me wrong. 2 rounds of faith that is reliable is better than 5 rounds that it a coin toss. THe thing that frustrated me the most under the 5th ed rules was that I failed their faith all the freaking time. I know it's just a 4+ but still. I'll take my Ld9 or Ld9 with reroll over a 4+ any day.

Yeah the 4+ wasn't sup[er reliable, but they were always useful for board control, 36" range of potential rending shots could mess with your opponents heads. I guess they still have that to a certain extent, but now once you've used your faith or if they manage to snipe your Sim Imp then they really lose their shine.

Do you know what used to bug me most with the WD dex and Rets? When I passed the faith test but then failed to get a single rending wound. Seemed to happen far more than the averages should've allowed.

D

This is why I don't like the change to faith for the Retributors as I don't see it being worth it with the chance involved.

Every other act of faith gives a set bonus that you will guarentee a benefit from, rerolls, ignores cover etc. With rendeing however you only have a 1 in 6 chance of the power actually taking affect. Combined with a price increase and one use a rending faith power is not worth it in my eyes.

As to what role the Avenger fills for me it takes the role my Retributors once filled. It isn't able to act as an area denial unit but but fills the role of anti-meq and Anti-air quite nicely. And as I said with the changes to their faith power the avenger does a much better job and killing MEQ Guarenteeing it will be AP3 every turn.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Commisioned the following from my friend Ash

Nice!

Every other act of faith gives a set bonus that you will guarentee a benefit from, rerolls, ignores cover etc. With rendeing however you only have a 1 in 6 chance of the power actually taking affect. Combined with a price increase and one use a rending faith power is not worth it in my eyes.

Every act gives a USR. The Ret one is no different. They all suffer from bad luck. Some are better than others. I think that a 1 in 6 chance of rending when firing 12-18 shots is pretty good.

But compare it to other faith powers,

Shred - Unless you succesfully make every to wound roll first go every failed wound will benefit from re-roll wounds.
Ignores cover - unless you miss and fail to wound/penetrate with every shot (actually had that happen) every shot will benefit from ignores cover.
Prefered enemy - Unless you succeed with every hit/wound or not roll a single 1 you will gain the benefit of the USR
Rending- Only takes effect if you roll a 6 to wound/pen after hitting. That's one to two AP2 wounds per act of faith for a full squad, per game, 4 if you give them the Sim.

Compared to other acts of faith, rending isn't as potent with only 1 to 2 shots actually benefiting from the rule while other acts of faith will benefit with almost every shot you make. Despite this downfall rending is still stuck with the same once per game limitations.

Shred - Makes you wound 5/9 instead of 3/9 most of the time (hand flamers). Enemy still gets saves. So an extra 2/9 that have to get through 3+ saves most of the time.
Ignores Cover - Most of the time, makes your hits 1/3 less likely to fail. Still have to hit.
Preferred Enemy - Gives you 1/6 more hits and wounds. Still have to get through saves and hit.
Rending - Gives you the ability to wound any toughness and pen any AV, ignoring armor on 1/6 of your hits. Still have to hit.

I'm not saying it is the best, but you are over-hyping most of the others.

The fact that it is Ld9 instead of 4+ now and that you can do it twice per game pretty reliably is a big deal. In the past, you got 2.5 Acts off if you took an act every single turn. Now you get 1.66 acts off if you take a simulacrum and VSS. You are more reliable. I would rather have fewer acts when I want them than more acts but not be able to rely on them.

Of course, I overall like the fewer faith acts design we have now vs the faith points type acts we had in the past.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Madcat87 wrote:
Compared to other acts of faith, rending isn't as potent with only 1 to 2 shots actually benefiting from the rule while other acts of faith will benefit with almost every shot you make. Despite this downfall rending is still stuck with the same once per game limitations.

This is probably your problem. Every shot that hits potentially benefits from rending. Just like every shot that hits potentially benefits from shred or PE or Ignore cover. It is just a more powerful effect that is less likely to trigger once you hit.

And it isn't once per game, it's twice. Three if you make a jacobus tower.

I like the total amount of shooty from the 4 HBs of a ret squad, regardless of rending or not. Especially now since 4+ armies are the "top tier"
My solution?
3x Exorcists
Canoness
SCS with 4x HBs in a bastion

now I still have my big time Exorcist shooty plus 15 HB shots from my SCS in the tower. Sure its not rending but its still S5 AP4!! Toss in a quad gun on top for a naked BSS or the canoness to fire and im all set.
This plan worked out splendidly on a mass fire warrior list @ 2K i played the other night. Smashed his gun line (we rolled the relic mission).

 OutlawBandit wrote:
I like the total amount of shooty from the 4 HBs of a ret squad, regardless of rending or not. Especially now since 4+ armies are the "top tier"
My solution?
3x Exorcists
Canoness
SCC with 4x HBs in a bastion

now I still have my big time Exorcist shooty plus 15 HB shots from my SCC in the tower. Sure its not rending but its still S5 AP4!! Toss in a quad gun on top for a naked BSS or the canoness to fire and im all set.
This plan worked out splendidly on a mass fire warrior list @ 2K i played the other night. Smashed his gun line (we rolled the relic mission).

Why not 5 heavy bolters?

 Necrosis wrote:

 OutlawBandit wrote:
I like the total amount of shooty from the 4 HBs of a ret squad, regardless of rending or not. Especially now since 4+ armies are the "top tier"
My solution?
3x Exorcists
Canoness
SCS with 4x HBs in a bastion

now I still have my big time Exorcist shooty plus 15 HB shots from my SCS in the tower. Sure its not rending but its still S5 AP4!! Toss in a quad gun on top for a naked BSS or the canoness to fire and im all set.
This plan worked out splendidly on a mass fire warrior list @ 2K i played the other night. Smashed his gun line (we rolled the relic mission).

Why not 5 heavy bolters?

The 5th SCS member fires the emplaced HB on the tower.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dont know if yall saw this already but I think the .epub version was updated again. Newest wording of the condemnor is:

Psi-shock: Any Psyker that takes an unsaved Wound from a stake crossbow shot suffers the Perils of the Warp in addition to any other effects.

Definitely back to being terribad.

^ Chances are he used to run rets with 4 HB and only has models for 4 HB models. I like the idea of running them as a SCS in a bastion. I might give that a try at some point.

Thanks for the idea.

D

 evildrcheese wrote:
^ Chances are he used to run rets with 4 HB and only has models for 4 HB models. I like the idea of running them as a SCS in a bastion. I might give that a try at some point.

Thanks for the idea.

D

Like most SOB players during the WD dex era, I did run the 4x HB Rets and 2x Exorcist list.
Now that the SCS is no longer hilariously overpriced and I can jam in a HB on each member of the unit it means I can have a sort of Ret HB unit which even without rending is a crapload if firepower and take a full 3x Exorcist choice.

 OutlawBandit wrote:
Dont know if yall saw this already but I think the .epub version was updated again. Newest wording of the condemnor is:

Psi-shock: Any Psyker that takes an unsaved Wound from a stake crossbow shot suffers the Perils of the Warp in addition to any other effects.

Definitely back to being terribad.

Just redownloaded. Confirmed. Condemnors are useless again.

Well, to be expected I guess.

iTunes one is still MIA but that's no surprise.

Ah well. Glad I didn't go tote effort of making combi-crssbows.

D

 evildrcheese wrote:
Ah well. Glad I didn't go tote effort of making combi-crssbows.

D

Yeah, I have one for giggles that I made in 5th edition for my inquisitor but glad I didn't make anymore.

Why can't we have nice things?

Sadly this was expected. That is why I never bother to change any of mini's. I had a feeling they would make a ruling same way another and I wasn't hacking any of my VSS up without knowing if they were good or not.

It's ok I love my combi flamers anyways