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Whaddaya mean Wazdakka is dropped?!?? I see him right here

Good God. Some of you have mentioned Ramshackle. I had forgotten about it. Really, the re-write of that rule is really illustrative of the processes behind the creation of a Codex. Here's how I imagine it.

Nottingham, United Kingdom. Rain drums on the roofs of the Games Workshop's fortress-monastery. There, in the candle-lit darkness of his cell, a lowly acolyte works on the final details of what will become the company's latest Codex. Suddenly, the scribe rises from his workstation and reaches for his senior...

- Sire! I've found that this rule is worded according to an obsolete edition of the game and contradicts existing rules! Perhaps it should be reworked or removed. What is your say, my honored master?

Codex: Orks.
- Um... Rewrite it as follows: Roll a D6. On a result of 6, treat that penetrating hit as a glancing hit instead.
- But Sire! It's an ork vehicle! It only has 10AV and 2HP!
- So what?
- With all due respect, Sire, won't Ork players think it's... useless?
- Ork Players? Ha! Ork players you say! You've got a lot to learn, my young protegee... Of all 40k players, ork collectors are the ones only one step short of bobbing incessantly while chanting na-na-na to themselves as they play with their own fecal matters. Don't you read their BBSs and mailing lists on that thing called "internet"? Whatever we sell them, they'll buy it! And they'll thank us for it! It's easier than selling cocaine-coated candy to hyperactive children!
- But Sir... I play Orks...
- Precisely...

Codex: Imperial Guard
- Um... Erase the rule...
- Understood, sire.
- Wait. What vehicle did you say it was for?
- The Leman Russ, sire.
- Oh. Then rewrite it as follows: Roll a D3. On a result of 4-6, resolve the penetrating hit as normal. On a result of 1-3, in addition to any damage caused by the penetrating hit, the Leman Russ is unable to move and shoot for the duration of the game. Oh, and change the rule's name to "expensive paperweight".
- Uh... Ok, sire.
- That will teach them.

Codex: Space Marines.
- Um... Rewrite it as follows: Roll a D6. On a result of 1-2, the penetrating hit is treated as a glancing hit. On a result of 3-6, the blessed nanochromatic psychoreactors from the Dark Age of Technology coating the vehicle's hull absorb the incoming projectile and transform it into additional armor. Restore 1 lost Hull point.
- Sounds fair...
- Brofist for the Emperor?
- Brofist.

Codex: Tyranids.
- Ugh... I have a massive headache today, did you know?
- But sire...
- Oh, take this book, read pages 30 to 36 and pick whatever you want. And please, don't bother...
- But sire, this book...
- What.
- It's a WHFB army book.
- So?
- Chaos Dwarves. Written in 1997. We don't do that army anymore...
- Even better.
- And it's in German!
- We don't pay you for this, remember?

Codex: Eldar.
- Ok, rewrite it as follows: Roll a D6. On a 1, treat the penetrating hit as a glancing hit instead. The enemy unit that fired the shot receives an instant S: D hit. On a result of 2-6, divide your age by the strenght of the impacting weapon and place the resulting number (rounding up) of Apocalyptic mega-blast templates on the board. Enemy units suffer an instant 2D6 S: D hits. Friendly units caught in the blast get eternal warrior, fearless, armorbane and fleshbane for the duration of the game.
- Sire, your rules-writing genius never ceases to amaze me.
- I know, lad, I know...

Codex: Chaos Daemons.
- Um... Wait... *looks at sales figures for Chaos Daemons*
- Sir?
- Oh. Ok. Rewrite as follows: Roll a... nah, nevermind. The impacted vehicle gets sucked by the warp and transforms into THE MEGA-KAIJU-DAEMON HIS INFERNAL HIGHNESS LORD BEEZLEBUB SATAN, REPRESENTED BY A PILE OF CHAOS DAEMON MINIATURES GLUED TOGETHER IN THE SHAPE OF A SIX-FEET-TALL MALE GOAT STANDING UPRIGHT ON HIS REAR QUARTERS! HE SHALL OVERTHROW THE MIGHTY AND LAY WASTE TO THEIR TEMPLES! HAIL SATAN!!!!
- But... S...Sire...
- Yes. Yes. I know. We can't say "Satan". That Pope guy has it trademark'd. Fething Pope...

Oh god, that eldar one!

Outside of the game rules and balance aspect, there have been several things that have bugged me.

'ere We Go: Why rename the old weirdboy power, and then give the name to a new unrelated rule?
Same with changing Zzap to a new bland generic name (Although it got a buff overall, it's weaker vs high AV. Did they really have to remove the one tihng in the codex that had melta? ).
No new rules for Badrukk or Zagstrukk to reflect their fluff or make them unique named HQs. They are basically just copy/pasted from their old rules as unit leaders.
Why on earth do Killa Kanz have to take morale checks, and why on earth does a Deff Dread now act like a pseudo runtherder?


The new dataslate/unit per page thing they have going on in the codex. It simply looks cheap and massively changes the feel of the codex compared to every single codex previously released. It basically looks like a catalog.

All the new codexes will be getting dataslates. I dont mind having everything on one page but I wish they would have kept using art instead of pics of the models. I know what the models look like, I want to see what they "really" look like!

 tyrannosaurus wrote:
I find it ironic that many of the people who constantly post negative threads attacking GW for lack of balance, are the same who then attack GW for not giving them an auto-win codex. You need to realise you can't have it both ways.

I've read through a lot of the posts about the codex and it appears to me that the majority of those who are all about fluff are happy with the codex, but the "I'm not having fun unless I'm winning" crowd seem negative.

There's two big issues here:

1. While the codex has better internal balance, the point used was towards the lower end of the 4th Ed codex. This means the terrible stuff was raised to being merely bad, and the stuff that was sub-par compared to the other new books was nerfed. Internal balance is closer to being achieved, directly at the expense of external balance. It's like if CSM was rebalanced around the Khorne berserker.

2. The stuff that was nerfed was nerfed in bizarre ways. New mob rule, battle wagons and trukks of death, shoota boyz now cost 75% more than termagants, Cybork was both changed to something the painboy negates and removed from units, the attack squig was nerfed and then made obviously inferior to the lucky stikk, Kanz now have to take morale checks, etc. You even see this in the newly "buffed" units, like Flashgitz losing 'eavy armour and upgrades, or Stormboyz taking the nerf to their rokkit packs that forces them all to take dangerous terrain tests.

I, for one, am excited with most changes. The few that bother me;

-Codex supplement being in the special edition bothers me. Especially since I've already preordered book.

-I'm uneasy about the loss of cybork. If I tried to see the change in a good light I might go with "since they changed the kff to ++ maybe they changed cybork to FnP to prevent overlap nd maybe thought it was too strong at 5+. I mean, its edition dakka we want more defensive rolls." Its a stretch, especially if FnP didnt get cheaper.

-FoC manipulation is gone. GW wants to force us to love multiple CAD.. time to find people that are with the new edition.

I'd like to think of it as moving the goalposts OP.

I mean, for the Chaos Codex we got:

-our marks back (How could people forget how bad icons were?)
-Veterans of the Long War to represent legionairies
-Cultists
-Non-generic daemon weapons
-Daemon engines which represent the Iron Warriors pretty well
-Noise Marines are now usable
-A really cool and fluffy Champions of Chaos rule. It doesn't fit every warband down to a tee, but the chance of a champion being rewarded with becoming a Daemon Prince (Or cursed with Spawnhood) was a brilliant idea.
-Daemon Princes are now more powerful. They should never have been as cheap and weak as the previous codex displayed them.
-Bikers are horribly over-costed anymore. Seriously, they were insanely over-priced.
- No more generic Daemon, as we can now ally with the full Daemon army.

And I'm sure that there are plenty of other points I could think up of if I had the book with me right now.

My point is that we were given a lot in the Chaos codex, but people only ever focus on the negatives. And the internet is an echo chamber for negativity.

They could have perfected the new Ork codex in every aspect, but the internet would find SOMETHING to complain about. Whether it be that the Ork codex is too strong, or too weak, they'd find something.

I wanted to have an opportunity to ignore challenge system. Or at least some HQ that wouldn't melt to any random beatstick before striking.

The opportunity is called "Mek" and can be bought for a hand full of points in addition to any HQ you have bought. Push him in front of the beat-stick bellowing the challenge, kill his unit with your warboss, run him down.

Also note the changes in the challenge mechanic in 7th. When Abbadon decides to charge your warbosses mob on his own, nothing prevents the boyz, the warboss and whoever else is present from just clobbering him to death while he is forced to allocate his wounds to your nob first.

That's probably gona work. If they don't cost too much and ain't sniped out. They're still having 6+ armor and 25+ pts price iirc.

a fat guy wrote:
I'd like to think of it as moving the goalposts OP.

I mean, for the Chaos Codex we got:

-our marks back (How could people forget how bad icons were?)
-Veterans of the Long War to represent legionairies
-Cultists
-Non-generic daemon weapons
-Daemon engines which represent the Iron Warriors pretty well
-Noise Marines are now usable
-A really cool and fluffy Champions of Chaos rule. It doesn't fit every warband down to a tee, but the chance of a champion being rewarded with becoming a Daemon Prince (Or cursed with Spawnhood) was a brilliant idea.
-Daemon Princes are now more powerful. They should never have been as cheap and weak as the previous codex displayed them.
-Bikers are horribly over-costed anymore. Seriously, they were insanely over-priced.
- No more generic Daemon, as we can now ally with the full Daemon army.

And I'm sure that there are plenty of other points I could think up of if I had the book with me right now.

My point is that we were given a lot in the Chaos codex, but people only ever focus on the negatives. And the internet is an echo chamber for negativity.

They could have perfected the new Ork codex in every aspect, but the internet would find SOMETHING to complain about. Whether it be that the Ork codex is too strong, or too weak, they'd find something.

Marks are better then Icon's, but as a whole are overcosted
VOTLW is practically useless in both cost and use
Cultists
And yet I'd still rather have blissgiver then only one for Undivded and Khorne.
Nobody asked for these types of Daemon Engines, Forgeworld does good ones and showed which ones people would buy, and they also nerfed the heck out of the existing one.
Noise marines are indeed usable.
Champions of Chaos is Absolutely Horrible, even the one presented in Warriors of Chaos is far better, and the forced challenges is bad.
Daemon Princes used to be stronger in the old dex, and far cheaper. Everyone took at least one all the time with wings and kitted them out with warptime and they beat face in combat, and with Eternal Warrior.
Bikes got fixed yeah.
Yay for alliance with a better codex.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

a fat guy wrote:
I'd like to think of it as moving the goalposts OP.

I mean, for the Chaos Codex we got:

-our marks back (How could people forget how bad icons were?)
-Veterans of the Long War to represent legionairies
-Cultists
-Non-generic daemon weapons
-Daemon engines which represent the Iron Warriors pretty well
-Noise Marines are now usable
-A really cool and fluffy Champions of Chaos rule. It doesn't fit every warband down to a tee, but the chance of a champion being rewarded with becoming a Daemon Prince (Or cursed with Spawnhood) was a brilliant idea.
-Daemon Princes are now more powerful. They should never have been as cheap and weak as the previous codex displayed them.
-Bikers are horribly over-costed anymore. Seriously, they were insanely over-priced.
- No more generic Daemon, as we can now ally with the full Daemon army.

And I'm sure that there are plenty of other points I could think up of if I had the book with me right now.

My point is that we were given a lot in the Chaos codex, but people only ever focus on the negatives. And the internet is an echo chamber for negativity.

They could have perfected the new Ork codex in every aspect, but the internet would find SOMETHING to complain about. Whether it be that the Ork codex is too strong, or too weak, they'd find something.

Marks are better then Icon's, but as a whole are overcosted
VOTLW is practically useless in both cost and use
Cultists
And yet I'd still rather have blissgiver then only one for Undivded and Khorne.
Nobody asked for these types of Daemon Engines, Forgeworld does good ones and showed which ones people would buy, and they also nerfed the heck out of the existing one.
Noise marines are indeed usable.
Champions of Chaos is Absolutely Horrible, even the one presented in Warriors of Chaos is far better, and the forced challenges is bad.
Daemon Princes used to be stronger in the old dex, and far cheaper. Everyone took at least one all the time with wings and kitted them out with warptime and they beat face in combat, and with Eternal Warrior.
Bikes got fixed yeah.
Yay for alliance with a better codex.

Instead of being snarky towards me, you could have have actually tried to contribute to the discussion.

Nevertheless, if you want to drag me down to your level:

-Points cost has nothing to do with this. Over time, most units will become overcosted as the metagame evolves. My point is that once upon a time, we didn't have marks, we only had icons, which were absolutely terrible at representing devotion to a god.
-It doesn't matter how effective it is or how much it costs, what matters is that you can use them to represent legionaries. Again, you missed the point.
-Cultists haven't been a part of the chaos army for several codexes, yet they've always been in the fluff. I'm not sure if you're trying to say that's a bad thing, since your attempt at being a smartass is making it difficult to understand exactly what you're trying to say.
-That's entirely personal preference. I'm sure that there's a Khorne fan out there that doesn't give a whit about Slaanesh Daemon Weapons too. If each of the gods had their own weapons, the artefacts section would be nothing but close combat weapons (i.e. boring).
-Nobody had to. GW just wanted to give us more toys to play with, like they do with every release.
-Good stuff.
-Yes, everything is terrible and you hate it. I get the idea. Even if transforming into a Daemon Prince in the middle of battle has never been represented on the tabletop until now, despite it being in the fluff too. Admittedly, a more reasonable approach would have been characters with a Mark of Chaos only get it (Since undivided isn't a thing anymore).
-They had eternal warrior. They now have different upgrade for the gods and stat increases. The only downside is the lack of eternal warrior, which they can get from the Black Legion supplement. They should never have been that cheap either, since they're meant to be very rare. They should also be stronger, in my opinion, and cost more points.
-Glad we agree.
-Would you have preferred no Daemon Codex and to only have generic Greater Daemons? Or to have both codexes, but not be able to ally them? The current situation isn't perfect, but your attitude is trying my patience so I'm reluctant to agree with you on just about anything.

 Jidmah wrote:
The opportunity is called "Mek" and can be bought for a hand full of points in addition to any HQ you have bought. Push him in front of the beat-stick bellowing the challenge, kill his unit with your warboss, run him down.

Also note the changes in the challenge mechanic in 7th. When Abbadon decides to charge your warbosses mob on his own, nothing prevents the boyz, the warboss and whoever else is present from just clobbering him to death while he is forced to allocate his wounds to your nob first.

Don't challenge wounds overflow into the squad also now? So the MekBoy is only soaking up 1 wound. Better off throwing the unit nob under the bus, assuming your unit has/can take one.

Yeah they do. It still allows your warboss/nob to simply kill a bunch of space marine bikers without taking damage, rather than getting a burning blade shoved town their throats and being to forced to punch the chaptermaster's relic shield.

 streamdragon wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
The opportunity is called "Mek" and can be bought for a hand full of points in addition to any HQ you have bought. Push him in front of the beat-stick bellowing the challenge, kill his unit with your warboss, run him down.

Also note the changes in the challenge mechanic in 7th. When Abbadon decides to charge your warbosses mob on his own, nothing prevents the boyz, the warboss and whoever else is present from just clobbering him to death while he is forced to allocate his wounds to your nob first.

Don't challenge wounds overflow into the squad also now? So the MekBoy is only soaking up 1 wound. Better off throwing the unit nob under the bus, assuming your unit has/can take one.

Yes, but the point is that the warboss ISNT taking them first, after the mek - unless he is the only other model in b2b - so can avoid challenges and wreck face.

Noone has yet gotten a challenge avoiding item, I'm not sure why Orks would get one. Given their hierarchy essentially involves a series of challenges to find the biggest, strongest ork to lead Im not sure avoiding challenges would be that..orky. To me, at least.

Jidmah wrote:Yeah they do. It still allows your warboss/nob to simply kill a bunch of space marine bikers without taking damage, rather than getting a burning blade shoved town their throats and being to forced to punch the chaptermaster's relic shield.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Yes, but the point is that the warboss ISNT taking them first, after the mek - unless he is the only other model in b2b - so can avoid challenges and wreck face.

Noone has yet gotten a challenge avoiding item, I'm not sure why Orks would get one. Given their hierarchy essentially involves a series of challenges to find the biggest, strongest ork to lead Im not sure avoiding challenges would be that..orky. To me, at least.

Yeah, I get that. I was just suggesting throwing the Nob under the bus since he'll have 2W instead of just 1W for the Mek. Just in case your Warboss is next in line to get faced.

Still pile in in order of I right? So unless the CM is alone, good chance your warboss is moving closer? And I'll leave avoiding challenges to my skaven, I agree Orks avoiding challenges just doesn't fit.

Yeah, but if your warbosss has a Klaw, then hes moving after everyone else, given you now have stikkbombs for free and therefore makes the I2 on Orks relevant again

a fat guy wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

a fat guy wrote:
I'd like to think of it as moving the goalposts OP.

I mean, for the Chaos Codex we got:

-our marks back (How could people forget how bad icons were?)
-Veterans of the Long War to represent legionairies
-Cultists
-Non-generic daemon weapons
-Daemon engines which represent the Iron Warriors pretty well
-Noise Marines are now usable
-A really cool and fluffy Champions of Chaos rule. It doesn't fit every warband down to a tee, but the chance of a champion being rewarded with becoming a Daemon Prince (Or cursed with Spawnhood) was a brilliant idea.
-Daemon Princes are now more powerful. They should never have been as cheap and weak as the previous codex displayed them.
-Bikers are horribly over-costed anymore. Seriously, they were insanely over-priced.
- No more generic Daemon, as we can now ally with the full Daemon army.

And I'm sure that there are plenty of other points I could think up of if I had the book with me right now.

My point is that we were given a lot in the Chaos codex, but people only ever focus on the negatives. And the internet is an echo chamber for negativity.

They could have perfected the new Ork codex in every aspect, but the internet would find SOMETHING to complain about. Whether it be that the Ork codex is too strong, or too weak, they'd find something.

Marks are better then Icon's, but as a whole are overcosted
VOTLW is practically useless in both cost and use
Cultists
And yet I'd still rather have blissgiver then only one for Undivded and Khorne.
Nobody asked for these types of Daemon Engines, Forgeworld does good ones and showed which ones people would buy, and they also nerfed the heck out of the existing one.
Noise marines are indeed usable.
Champions of Chaos is Absolutely Horrible, even the one presented in Warriors of Chaos is far better, and the forced challenges is bad.
Daemon Princes used to be stronger in the old dex, and far cheaper. Everyone took at least one all the time with wings and kitted them out with warptime and they beat face in combat, and with Eternal Warrior.
Bikes got fixed yeah.
Yay for alliance with a better codex.

Instead of being snarky towards me, you could have have actually tried to contribute to the discussion.

Nevertheless, if you want to drag me down to your level:

Ah yes, so your just going to insult me for pointing out the flaws in the things you brought to light as a good thing? Well whatever makes you feel better.

As for such:

-Points cost has nothing to do with this. Over time, most units will become overcosted as the metagame evolves. My point is that once upon a time, we didn't have marks, we only had icons, which were absolutely terrible at representing devotion to a god.

Yes, and as a result they've made several marks far more worthless, such as Khorne, and Tzeentch, and this was upon their release. I'm not fighting the fact that the flag based devotion was horrible, but it was badly implemented.

-It doesn't matter how effective it is or how much it costs, what matters is that you can use them to represent legionaries. Again, you missed the point.

I'm sorry, how does a reroll in combat represent legionaries, I didn't know Rubrics were so good at close combat, nor those who fought as havocs. It does not represent them in any meaningful way, is both mechanically and a fluff based failure.

-Cultists haven't been a part of the chaos army for several codexes, yet they've always been in the fluff. I'm not sure if you're trying to say that's a bad thing, since your attempt at being a smartass is making it difficult to understand exactly what you're trying to say.

Man you are just one insulting poster aren't you? I didn't comment on them because I'm neutral to them, they are a good addition to the codex and I had nothing really to say on them. Though I'd love for more options.

-That's entirely personal preference. I'm sure that there's a Khorne fan out there that doesn't give a whit about Slaanesh Daemon Weapons too. If each of the gods had their own weapons, the artefacts section would be nothing but close combat weapons (i.e. boring).

Because they and you are a bit unimaginative, there's various based melee and magical daemonic weaponry, Khorne has Autocannons and Heavy bolters enchanted so they cause the enemy to bleed through, Tzeentch weaponry could easily cast bolts of flame or various colors of flame, Slaanesh could have blades that twist and writhe in the air as they seperate into links like a chain, and Nurgle has weapons filled with flies and beasts that could spread the plague from afar, all the while still being effective in combat.

-Nobody had to. GW just wanted to give us more toys to play with, like they do with every release.

The modelers make models and the codex writers are forced to shove them in somehow, so I suppose so.

-Yes, everything is terrible and you hate it. I get the idea. Even if transforming into a Daemon Prince in the middle of battle has never been represented on the tabletop until now, despite it being in the fluff too. Admittedly, a more reasonable approach would have been characters with a Mark of Chaos only get it (Since undivided isn't a thing anymore).

My you are just so insulting, but I pointed out the issues behind it, however one of the things behind it in fantasy is willpower, if you got a spawn or DP, you take a LD test to either avoid a spawned fate (but become slightly more crippled), or a LD test to become a Prince (if you fail you still are quite legendary), however becoming a DP should not be CRIPPLING, losing their entire gear and gaining nothing for it actually makes them on average far worse should your chaos lord or Kharn becomes a Daemon Prince, it's just so poorly mechanically implemented that it harms it as a whole, and not to mention you don't just see the average cultist kill one sarge and become a Prince out at random, chaos isn't that filled with DP's!

-They had eternal warrior. They now have different upgrade for the gods and stat increases. The only downside is the lack of eternal warrior, which they can get from the Black Legion supplement. They should never have been that cheap either, since they're meant to be very rare. They should also be stronger, in my opinion, and cost more points.

So random DP's are fine, but leaders are bad? And if they cost even more they would be useless, as it is the only worthwhile build is the flying Black Mace build as the others are useless.

-Would you have preferred no Daemon Codex and to only have generic Greater Daemons? Or to have both codexes, but not be able to ally them? The current situation isn't perfect, but your attitude is trying my patience so I'm reluctant to agree with you on just about anything.

You're the one being quite insulting , and as I said, it's an alliance with the better codex, which I fear we will lose when GW feels like removing allies again.

I play Kult of Speed, mostly warbikes. I just wanted a few more options for a mobile army. Maybe some fun rules and new models for buggies and deffkoptas. I loved that list more than any other army I have played since 2nd, and GW ruined it with a bland and committee-designed book.

Instead my existing army got nerfed badly and my HQ was removed. The bosspoles that I used to use to reroll LD tests now let me reroll on a table where the "good" result is d6 hits, and most of the time my warbikes will be too small to pass Mob Rule. The only positive change was that some models got cheaper, but only in points. The only real new options in the book have horrible, boring, and unexplainable rules. The second army I played got screwed the changes to deffrollas and red paint. There are very few upgrades in the book that I would consider now.

What they did with this book is to achieve internal balance by nerfing everything that was strong and making a few bad units average. Then they slashed point costs without cutting the real prices. So the army may still be competitive, but if you can't accept what GW is doing from a business perspective then you are a sucker or a shill.

Very disappointed with this release. Enough that I am quitting 40k at least until they do something to fix it.

khanaris wrote:
I play Kult of Speed, mostly warbikes. I just wanted a few more options for a mobile army. Maybe some fun rules and new models for buggies and deffkoptas. I loved that list more than any other army I have played since 2nd, and GW ruined it with a bland and committee-designed book.

Instead my existing army got nerfed badly and my HQ was removed. The bosspoles that I used to use to reroll LD tests now let me reroll on a table where the "good" result is d6 hits, and most of the time my warbikes will be too small to pass Mob Rule. The only positive change was that some models got cheaper, but only in points. The only real new options in the book have horrible, boring, and unexplainable rules. The second army I played got screwed the changes to deffrollas and red paint. There are very few upgrades in the book that I would consider now.

What they did with this book is to achieve internal balance by nerfing everything that was strong and making a few bad units average. Then they slashed point costs without cutting the real prices. So the army may still be competitive, but if you can't accept what GW is doing from a business perspective then you are a sucker or a shill.

Very disappointed with this release. Enough that I am quitting 40k at least until they do something to fix it.

I was a little disappointed in some of the changes, but I've gotten over the sour grapes. Losing Wazzy sucked because he was just a boatload of fun to play and was fun to create, but I feel my mini KoS is still effective. And with everything scoring now, he isn't needed as much for FoC manipulation.I still find bikers to be ridiculously effective. They dropped in cost and increased squad size, so we get MORE bikes than we did before. Though they lost their default 4+ cover, it doesn't matter too much since we can just Jink and get the 4+ anyway (Really good if we happen to go second so we can dodge some gunfire). And when they DO move, we get a +1 to cover when we Turbo Boost, giving us a 3+ when we jink, meaning we actually can (theoretically) survive better than before. Then again, they still have the weakness of any 'ignores cover' weapons/units your foe might have. In which case, the bikes are equally as effective as before...just cheaper.

Nob Biker deathstars are a little less viable of course since we lost Cybork goodness (Which I won't lie, I was upset about). Though they can still get the FNP with a Painbiker, and even a 5+ invul if you really wanna tag along a Mek-Biker. So, the meta changed a little, but that's what happens in ANY game. Change isn't always bad. And now we can use our points on cheaper Bikers, bring more of them, or bring other toys.

My beloved Deffkopters got CHEAPER. I loved these things to begin with, and now I can run them with lesser constraints. Even their much coveted TL Rokkits became a free upgrade, making them again...much cheaper on top of their initial point discount. I can't remember how many times these things saved my hide, and now I can play them more often when I need to be sneaky as opposed to pure fast.

Trukks are still bitter sweet for me. The explosions with the new Mob Rule have me worried. Will it stop me from running Trukks at all? Probably not. But I might be sending the more durable units in the more squishy vehicle, and vice versa. Just a minor change. *shrug*

I wouldn't quit the game until you play some games with the new rules, or if your that adamant in not using it, just stick with your 6th edition Codex. I doubt many peopl will refuse to play you with the same book they just played against the other day. I've played a handful of games with the new dex, and I've no real complaints thus far.

I, for one, am happy with almost all of the changes. Feels like a true horde army and assault seems more capable with the right quantities.

The removal of the rules for models they don't make kits for is dissappointing. And crying about some nerfs is the same as being happy about some buffs.

I really like the new codex. Heck the mob rule has saved me more than hurt me I love it.

I think the only thing I would have liked to see is a new gun option on the meganobz. Like a big shoota or a supa shoota. I play shooty orks, so just having assault weapons on the mega nobz makes the snp useless unless you stick a mega character with a unit.

other than that codex is great.

apparently getting buffs almost unanimously across the board and having every single unit in the codex be viable if not downright competitive with supplements that make this codex upper tier at worst isnt enough,

cause we lost the cheapest 5++ saves and a couple named chars with no models.


nothing will stop the QQ, even a great codex will cause the whiners to whine the internets for all eternaty

 easysauce wrote:
apparently getting buffs almost unanimously across the board and having every single unit in the codex be viable if not downright competitive with supplements that make this codex upper tier at worst isnt enough,

cause we lost the cheapest 5++ saves and a couple named chars with no models.


nothing will stop the QQ, even a great codex will cause the whiners to whine the internets for all eternaty

As an outsider just following along, I think the serious complaints were more about loss of flavor, uniqueness and fun.
Though some were indeed saying that the dex lost power, but I don't know who's right or wrong in that, though it appears to me to have been buffed a little bit.

I got what I wanted, mostly. What didn't happen :

- Better walkers
- Elite Flash Gitz
- Fun psychic powers (the ork ones are lame and demonology kills you)
- Some supergod close combat stuff for Warbosses

So, mostly no complaints.

I get the impression that the hordes type player is enjoying the codex far more than me and speed freaks type players. Losing nobs, and bkiers to keep up with our fast army really hurts. And the boss pole is just no help when you start with so piddly an amount of boys. Ramshackle used to be super useful, now it does nothing. in 8 games, not once has it been rolled. Moving lootas to heavy support means my looted wagons and battlewagons are too crowded. And even worse, deff rollas have been nerfed to utter worthlessness. Nobody is going to death or glory.

If you weren't a fan of 100 boyz on the board, with painboys and 2 hour movement phases with difficult terrain every turn because you take up half the board, its pretty crappy.

Dunno, my speed freeks at least got a lot better with better warbikers, blitza-bommas and the ability to have a lot of 4+ saves.

 easysauce wrote:
apparently getting buffs almost unanimously across the board and having every single unit in the codex be viable if not downright competitive with supplements that make this codex upper tier at worst isnt enough,

cause we lost the cheapest 5++ saves and a couple named chars with no models.


nothing will stop the QQ, even a great codex will cause the whiners to whine the internets for all eternaty

I'm not sure where unanimous cheap buffs are coming from in this codex.

Most things got better. THe codex lost a little flexibility due to the removal of slot swapping, but nothing serious.

I like it.