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Why is it always someone else's fault, yet each time we still don't have our stuff?

I would happily pay postage to finally get my pledge wont happen as they have no intention of sending stuff out to people now .

 CURNOW wrote:
So prodos why are people getting sent free sets when backers have yet to receive their copies ?

To be hones, no idea, I'll check it tomorrow morning ... we have not been shipping any to review copies for a long time, and if it was sent it would be a retail one, but 3 of them that is really like Prodos -F up again.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Joyboozer wrote:
Why is it always someone else's fault, yet each time we still don't have our stuff?

It's our fault, bad management from start , tons of mistakes, previous KS faults repeated, fight for power in the company, doing stuff that slowed down approval process purposely, getting the team to fight between each other... stories like in a Brazilian telenovela.

We have all of this over now.

It maybe not look like, but we are really doing the best we can to pass this KS, and move on.

Thank you . Please dont take the fact people are passionate about getting their stuff as a bad thing most people just want to get their sets because they have been planning and dreaming about it for years .

 CURNOW wrote:
I would happily pay postage to finally get my pledge wont happen as they have no intention of sending stuff out to people now .

Well if you gave me just 1 logical reason why we would have no intention of sending stuff out to peoples, I would make you as a miniature and push for approval in FOX, just one logical reason why we would hold your stuff with no intention to ship it.

Playing Devil's Advocate, because you're in financial distress and are unable to afford to do just that?

Unfortunately, in the absence of communication and information, speculation will occur.

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
And the passive aggressive attack against a guy who did cut free from you.

Stay classy Prodos.

Well, divorce with Mark was not a grate deal to be hones. He has done more damage to us than you could imagine, including 60k GBP loss on our 1st KS, but let's forget about his, sorry my fault I should not be saying this, after all he must have some plan to get over the issues of making tons of models.

Wow.

I think passion is what really gets us all in trouble. As backers, we're passionate about the franchise and excited about finally getting games set in this universe and amazing miniatures to play with. I'm sure Prodos is just as passionate about the IP and getting a successful product to market in order to fill a niche that has gone unfilled for a long time.

That passion, on both sides, leads to a lot of bad decisions and heated discussion. Hopefully we can learn from what has happened and use the experience to grow, Prodos and backers both.

Am I frustrated? Sure, everyone is, on both sides. I've come to the realisation that there's not much I can do about it and that by letting that frustration fester it is doing nothing but hurting me. The situation is what it is. Prodos will get the games out when they can and in the meantime I will enjoy the other games I play.

 CURNOW wrote:
Thank you . Please dont take the fact people are passionate about getting their stuff as a bad thing most people just want to get their sets because they have been planning and dreaming about it for years .

Same as we have dreamed of making this game for years and its our nightmare now.

I am not taking this as a bad thing, but really it's hard to describe how much stuff we have went through with this KS. And now we have to work even 3 times harder under 3 times more pressure to make more profit and spend it to a penny for sending KS out. Not a perfect solution I would say, but at least we don't make an another KS to fullfil previous one as some companies are forced to (or maybe we should?).

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:

 CURNOW wrote:
I would happily pay postage to finally get my pledge wont happen as they have no intention of sending stuff out to people now .

Well if you gave me just 1 logical reason why we would have no intention of sending stuff out to peoples, I would make you as a miniature and push for approval in FOX, just one logical reason why we would hold your stuff with no intention to ship it.

the logical reason is you have already had our money and every backer copy sent out now is a loss to you its one less you have available to sell to retail and one less that is going to bring in new funds .why send out to backers when we have no way to do anything if you don't when you can send out to retailers who will give you new funds and repeat custom.



Sure here you go ...i don't think you will have trouble getting approval lol

 Alpharius wrote:
Playing Devil's Advocate, because you're in financial distress and are unable to afford to do just that?

Unfortunately, in the absence of communication and information, speculation will occur.

That isn't speculation, they have come out and said it in their updates. That was the reason they gave for going back on yet another promise and selling wave 2 retail before backers get theirs. Hopefully they sell enough retail wave 2 to finish sending backers wave 1.

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:


It's our fault, bad management from start , tons of mistakes, previous KS faults repeated, fight for power in the company, doing stuff that slowed down approval process purposely, getting the team to fight between each other... stories like in a Brazilian telenovela.

We have all of this over now.

It maybe not look like, but we are really doing the best we can to pass this KS, and move on.

Wow again....

 Alpharius wrote:
Playing Devil's Advocate, because you're in financial distress and are unable to afford to do just that?

Unfortunately, in the absence of communication and information, speculation will occur.

True, the fact is, Prodos is a company with "mad skills and bad organisation"- I've been told at Essen and I must agree. We are small team with tons of work on our shoulders. With a million of issues to be solved every day.

Prodos is divided into 2 companies:

1st one is stand alone, self sufficient, casting power house called Archon, it's based in Poland and makes resin minis for Prodos as for other companies.
2nd is the Prodos Games, the company that sale the product world wide.

The main problem for this KS was wrong manufacturing approach and calculations, as our expectations where to get an approval in a light speed we went and produced metric tons of models (all add-ons), which mean we have frozen a tons of cash, well, we have even went beyond KS needs, just to keep people in their jobs, hoping that within 6 months it all will hit KS backers and then market... 1.6y later we are still having metric tons of add-ons collecting dust (it's approx. 750k GBP of stock)...
I really lost calculation on how much we have spent on dev of this game after 100k GBP, it definitely went beyond our predictions, constant changes, re-scultping, re-printing, re-casting delays on feedback and approval and so on, cost us time, and time = money.

I heard stories while at Esses that Fox almost killed financial other company with 2y in dev for a product. Well maybe this is why everyone stay away from their licenses.

Now we are at the stage, where we need to manufacture and sale the game to keep licensor happy and make sure we are fulfilling the KS.
In general we are trying to keep 2 parties happy at the same time (impossible i would say, but hey for prodos there is no impossible...).

Anyhow, next update will have full Prodos story, with in depth, and the plan to get there,




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 CURNOW wrote:

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:

 CURNOW wrote:
I would happily pay postage to finally get my pledge wont happen as they have no intention of sending stuff out to people now .

Well if you gave me just 1 logical reason why we would have no intention of sending stuff out to peoples, I would make you as a miniature and push for approval in FOX, just one logical reason why we would hold your stuff with no intention to ship it.

the logical reason is you have already had our money and every backer copy sent out now is a loss to you its one less you have available to sell to retail and one less that is going to bring in new funds .why send out to backers when we have no way to do anything if you don't when you can send out to retailers who will give you new funds and repeat custom.

Which of them is you?

Sure here you go ...i don't think you will have trouble getting approval lol

Is there a plan to sort out people who have received retail rather than KS copies?

 Fraggle wrote:
Is there a plan to sort out people who have received retail rather than KS copies?

Yes, collect the game from you and send replacement, i think it was explained in last update, if not then sorry. send me an email to : service@prodos.co.uk we will get that sort out.

Prodos, thank you for spending time here to answer questions and explain situations. Dakka is probably the last place you want to be addressing customers but I appreciate it.

I'm closest to camera .

I see this has changed as well now

September 24th 2015

We’d also like to take this opportunity to tell you all that there will be 1 item for each faction made available for pre-order to our wholesale accounts relatively soon, with the intent of release in the middle of October.

Firestorm now have 6 wave 2 items up having added the Crusher, Warriors and Predalien.

http://www.firestormgames.co.uk/wargames-miniatures/avp-the-hunt-begins

Prodos - I've emailed Michal 3 times regarding it and also been in contact with Rob (who said he'd look into it but obviously has other distractions with his KS in fairness) but no response yet.

I'll try the service email though....

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:

 Fraggle wrote:
Is there a plan to sort out people who have received retail rather than KS copies?

Yes, collect the game from you and send replacement, i think it was explained in last update, if not then sorry. send me an email to : service@prodos.co.uk we will get that sort out.

How do you handle refunding the postage to return the game? That was not explained in the last update.

 Panic wrote:
Yeah,
NotProdos replies to my message on their new KS
Saying 'Don't Panic'...

Super cool mock your old customers screen name while roping up new customers!

Panic...

Didn't CMON also have the "Don't Panic raffle" in your honour after the original Zombicide campaign?

Classy quote from Prodoa in the Panzerfauste thread today -

Hi CptJake, just to straighten up the facts: Mark WAS our business partner when he was running his KS, however post KS, decided to leave the company and fulfill his KS (Devil's Run) on his own. In fact, not sure how he is going to managed with his wife casting 14k models, but that was his decision and it's his problem now.
[/quoute]

They PayPal'd it for my refund...

 CptJake wrote:

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:

 Fraggle wrote:
Is there a plan to sort out people who have received retail rather than KS copies?

Yes, collect the game from you and send replacement, i think it was explained in last update, if not then sorry. send me an email to : service@prodos.co.uk we will get that sort out.

How do you handle refunding the postage to return the game? That was not explained in the last update.

We will collect it, or if you send it back we will pay for postage.

they are saying 'collect the game from you' so maybe they expect to book a courier to come and pick it up?

if so they'd pay direct with no need for shipping refunds

 warboss wrote:

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
And the passive aggressive attack against a guy who did cut free from you.

Stay classy Prodos.

Well, divorce with Mark was not a grate deal to be hones. He has done more damage to us than you could imagine, including 60k GBP loss on our 1st KS, but let's forget about his, sorry my fault I should not be saying this, after all he must have some plan to get over the issues of making tons of models.

Warzone?

Probably not needed, but a word of caution when reading anything posted by the 'Prodos Overlord', unfortunately his grip on numbers and the truth are not as most would consider normal.



Automatically Appended Next Post:


Classy quote from Prodoa in the Panzerfauste thread today -

Hi CptJake, just to straighten up the facts: Mark WAS our business partner when he was running his KS, however post KS, decided to leave the company and fulfill his KS (Devil's Run) on his own. In fact, not sure how he is going to managed with his wife casting 14k models, but that was his decision and it's his problem now.
[/quoute]

Same with this one. Current numbers (via backerkit) 10k models, for Devil's Run. We are working to a schedule and our team is doing a great job.

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:

Anyhow, next update will have full Prodos story, with in depth, and the plan to get there,

Thanks for posting that as it is both very needed and long overdue. If you'd like to see what NOT to do in that type of an update, please check out the Palladium Robotech link below to their 19 pages of nothing "update" that was supposed to do the same. I'd love to be able to start using AVP as an example of how to reform a troubled kickstarter just like I used to use it as an example of how to properly run a post fulfillment campaign over a year ago.

Part 1 of what NOT to do

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rrpgt/robotech-rpg-tacticstm/posts/1255963

Part 2 of what NOT to do

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rrpgt/robotech-rpg-tacticstm/posts/1256008

19 pages (according to their count) of history lessons, a little blaming, finally telling a tiny bit of truth that their partner already made known almost a YEAR earlier, empty unfulfilled promises of a restart in communication, and no real plan to move forward but special focus on their detailed plan of what they want us to buy next sight unseen months ahead of time which would be the real reason they finally graced us with an update at that time. If issues are aired and blame assigned, do so with clear details (not vague statements) and how you'll avoid the same mistake in the future. The key is to clearly explain how you got to the pit you're in, how you're going to climb out, AND how you're going to avoid further pits like it in the future. 1 out of 3 isn't good enough as evidenced by Palladium's so called "update".

After the mistakes made in this campaign, it may not sound like it but most angry backers will appreciate the above. Think of it as ripping the band aid off quickly. It may hurt intially but it's better in the long run and less likely to make you wuss out half way.

Rob your hands getting tired working all these sock puppets ?

"There is also great news for North and South American Kickstarter backers, in that Ninja Division will be handling your Kickstarter shipments. They have kindly agreed to handle the Wave 1 fulfillment of the Alien vs Predator Kickstarter for those territories in one great big push during the month of August. This means that everyone will get their products at roughly the same time, rather than the staggered shipments which would occur with the fulfillment handled by Prodos Games direct."

I'd love to know the truth behind what really happened to this relationship with Ninja Division. But alas...earwax.


Soon....

Well, deeds speak louder than words, and only time will tell if Prodos can really amend.

Still, you have to admit, that's more communication and honest "Ok, we fethed up" admission on the last page alone than PB ever did (not that much of a feat, I'll concede), and posting on Dakka takes a fair amount of courage. We'll see what happens next, but you gotta respect that.