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@Dire, Short answer, yes. I intend on making those rules ported over somehow into Thunder Run. I'm glad you like it enough to mention it.

@HudsonD, Jason and Greg have offered open requests on Arkana for folks to write to them on the blog. I'm sure any suggestions or offering of opinions would be seen.

 HudsonD wrote:
I'm perfectly willing to provide proof-reading and editing if he apologizes to me for the rules thread fiasco.

BrandonKF wrote:
@HudsonD, Jason and Greg have offered open requests on Arkana for folks to write to them on the blog. I'm sure any suggestions or offering of opinions would be seen.

Are you purposefully missing the point ?

BrandonKF wrote:
Any chance of the cathartic ex-players and ex-testers would join in offering up suggestions and advice on Arkana?

-Brandon F.

Already doing it, whenever I'm prompted to ^_^

@HudsonD, Those days are behind us. Water under the bridge. I'm a hopeful man. Hoping to elicit change. I don't want arguments about who did what, when, and where. I don't know what happened back then, and it's none of my business. But I'm hoping that if you would open up a private dialogue you might get whatever it is you seek.

@Albertorius, I'm always interested to hear from your point of view.

-Brandon F.

BrandonKF wrote:
Those days are behind us. Water under the bridge.

As a company, Dream Pod 9 is not going to change so long as it's current president, Robert Dubois, holds the license.

That is absolute reality.


When it comes to Arkrite, Jason and Greg have yet to produce anything of their own to set the tone for what their reputation is going to be with the RPG revamp.
That some folks might be waiting to see what happens in the near future before deciding things either way is probably perfectly understandable given some of the projects those two have been associated with during their time with DP9.

BrandonKF wrote:
I'm a hopeful man. Hoping to elicit change. I don't want arguments about who did what, when, and where.

Asking that fans, players, and freelancers who got stepped upon or left by the wayside, when they had no control whatsoever over things Heavy Gear in the first place regardless of whether or not they personally might have done something actually wrong, be the ones to change and/or forgive so as to once again support the Pod and it's offshoot may not be the most productive approach to the issue.

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Perhaps the way it is written might not be as tactful as I would like.

Please keep in mind that I am interested in fans, players and freelancers joining together to make a better game. I am not trying to speak from a position of arrogance.

If it reads in that way, I apologize.

-Brandon F.

BrandonKF wrote:
Perhaps the way it is written might not be as tactful as I would like.
Please keep in mind that I am interested in fans, players and freelancers joining together to make a better game. I am not trying to speak from a position of arrogance.
If it reads in that way, I apologize.
-Brandon F.

I think I see your mistake. You are mistaking substance (what you're trying to say) and style (how you're saying it) again.
Your style is fine. The substance doesn't deserve an answer, but there are people reading us, and they deserve to know.

Ignoring, knowingly and willingly, all the current problems, past issues, and long history of grievance isn't the solution. It's what got us in this mess in the first place.

DP9 hasn't changed its ethics one bit, and while Arkrite has tried to distance themselves a bit, at least in name, they've yet to prove they follow a different path. When they do, then things will have a chance of improving, and only then.

So I unsubscribed from all the threads that were a source of frustration instead of hobby fun a few weeks back (including every HG and Robotech thread) but I posted a final quick update to my nucoal army when I finished my last models this past week. Lo and behold, the beta rules just came out and seemingly invalidated 2/3 of my completely generic non-subfaction specific collection of models that are usable in every blitz Nucoal subfaction except maybe PAK (don't recall if their CEF hovertanks replace or just add to the normal Nucoal ones). FIF repeat, anyone? This is my smallest army so therefore the first and easiest to check but I'm dreading checking the other larger two.

http://dp9forum.com/index.php?showtopic=16346#entry285747

I'm curious to see if my post will get a suitable response or just disappear since it isn't all rainbow farts and sunshine turds (to borrow a phrase from the Robotech comments). In case it does disappear, here it is:

 warboss wrote:
FIF repeat, anyone? This is my smallest army so therefore the first and easiest to check but I'm dreading checking the other larger two.
I'm curious to see if my post will get a suitable response or just disappear since it isn't all rainbow farts and sunshine turds (to borrow a phrase from the Robotech comments).

If it hasn't disappeared or garnered you a nasty PM from el presidente, more likely it'll get a semi-sarcastic but totally useless "answer" from Dave that in the end will somehow be your own fault and not theirs.

Because yeah, this as per usual situation should not have happened again - it should've been far easier to get right compared to minutely checking over the Field Guide army construction format.
And this time there is literally no one else for either of them to blame for once again fething up the list-building.

Not just in hindsight I wondered if this was going to happen as even for my infrequent visits to the Pod forums post-banning one thing I noticed was all mention of "Sub-List Development" completely disappeared when the Northern PDF was finally released, and the big Gen-Con Beta promotion plans were announced.


Says it all really; [ Dilbert Comic ]

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Well, the biggest tabletop gaming convention in North America has come and gone this weekend. If any of the thread readers/posters went, feel free to share your mech gaming experiences here whether they're specifically about HG and the reception the new rules got or other mech related games.

I'm personally curious about any con news/buzz regarding both HG and Robotech but I'd be interested also about Infinity and Alpha Strike.

Did the HG meetup and game with landships happen? Was the booth adequetly staffed? Did any HG events get added at all to the on site book or were there no officially scheduled events for the game to go along with the beta book release? Any news on the KS that was "leaked"? Any interviews you saw DP9 doing with youtube channels that we should be on the look out for? Those are the things that spring to mind for me. I've been doing a nightly youtube check and sadly didn't see anything for HG pop up over the last couple of days.

 warboss wrote:
Did the HG meetup and game with landships happen? Was the booth adequetly staffed? Did any HG events get added at all to the on site book or were there no officially scheduled events for the game to go along with the beta book release? Any news on the KS that was "leaked"? Any interviews you saw DP9 doing with youtube channels that we should be on the look out for? Those are the things that spring to mind for me. I've been doing a nightly youtube check and sadly didn't see anything for HG pop up over the last couple of days.

I haven't heard much myself. I think the decision was made to skip 'official' events. I suggested trying to see if there was a way to get into the new game demo area or running some long-form demos (more like RPG sessions as opposed to a tournament) to show off the beta in a more casual environment, but I don't think that idea was adopted.

Gencon has been one of the biggest recruiting drive for DP9, and their boards usually see an influx of new players right after their event. Or at least used to...

You'd think there would be something somewhere for Gencon aside from tiny blurbs by now.

Though I really had to shake my head when I read Dave's comments about the future of the planned Kickstarter:

Dave wrote:Rewards and reward levels for the book kickstarter will be limited to book art, quality of the final published product and ways that players can be a lasting part of the game.
So welcome all, I appreciate your Support and especially your criticism. We need to be objective about making this rules release great so we can ensure that there will be Heavy Gear on tabletops for a long time to come.

Apparently it wasn't enough to end up paying after the fact for errors, omissions, and typos in almost all previous DP9 products. Now those items must be funded by whatever remains of the player-base, with "quality" dependent on $$$ received.


I think this says it all about the Beta ruleset:

Dave wrote:It is my opinion that there is a finite number of models that we can include in a core book release for each faction before they start to bleed into each others design space. Please start a thread in the 2015 rules development section to discuss this.

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Thanks for the link and info (scant though it may be). I'll likely sit out the kickstarter for several reasons. The first is that I don't think HG can make the turn around it needs without a change in the physical component of the game (i.e. the models in plastic or much cheaper resin).

The second is that I'm being asked yet again to take it on the chin for "the team" by having half my newly finished Nucoal models unable to use currently. I already took one for the team when they invalidated my RPG books in 2-3 years from first release with my barely used RAFM model collection soon to follow. I already took it on the chin when they invalidated my entire original blitz book collection after 2 years to ONLY SIX MONTHS to come out with L&L that fixed almost nothing. I bent over when FIF came out and wrecked the majority of my squads and caused more variants models to be invalidated or models simply impossible to use in my 30 model army than the previous 300 models in 40k that weathered codex changes. I'm done paying for an aspect of the hobby to keep disappointing me over and over.

I won't be bending over for DP9 yet again. If they're going to half ass the new edition by increasing the scale of games but not address at all the cost of entry to the game (refer to the poll above to see whether cost is an issue for people who don't start HG), I may not go in on the kickstarter. If my collection makes it into the beta intact without being gutted via the FAQ/Errata dave promised, I'll back for the PDF level assuming there is one. If my collection continues to be gutted, I'll skip the kickstarter and wait for the final version to come out and possibly get the PDF on sale IF and ONLY IF issues regarding my missing/illegal/unusable models are addressed.

I don't care about the reasons anymore. If they don't make it easy for me to use the minis in my collection, I'm not even going to bother looking at the rules. And right now, there are lots of stuff I can't field together, between all my armies.

So yeah, good luck with that.

 warboss wrote:
Thanks for the link and info (scant though it may be). I'll likely sit out the kickstarter for several reasons. The first is that I don't think HG can make the turn around it needs without a change in the physical component of the game (i.e. the models in plastic or much cheaper resin).

The second is that I'm being asked yet again to take it on the chin for "the team" by having half my newly finished Nucoal models unable to use currently. I already took one for the team when they invalidated my RPG books in 2-3 years from first release with my barely used RAFM model collection soon to follow. I already took it on the chin when they invalidated my entire original blitz book collection after 2 years to ONLY SIX MONTHS to come out with L&L that fixed almost nothing. I bent over when FIF came out and wrecked the majority of my squads and caused more variants models to be invalidated or models simply impossible to use in my 30 model army than the previous 300 models in 40k that weathered codex changes. I'm done paying for an aspect of the hobby to keep disappointing me over and over.

I won't be bending over for DP9 yet again. If they're going to half ass the new edition by increasing the scale of games but not address at all the cost of entry to the game (refer to the poll above to see whether cost is an issue for people who don't start HG), I may not go in on the kickstarter. If my collection makes it into the beta intact without being gutted via the FAQ/Errata dave promised, I'll back for the PDF level assuming there is one. If my collection continues to be gutted, I'll skip the kickstarter and wait for the final version to come out and possibly get the PDF on sale IF and ONLY IF issues regarding my missing/illegal/unusable models are addressed.

What makes you think they won't gut it again in a couple of years ?
Seriously, look at the amount of missing stuff from the Northern book, even units from the base GP, despite the beta and the ebook being designed at the same time ? Or how few units were added between the end of the alpha and the official beta release, despite a 4-months gap, and people pointing out the holes in the list ?
They're not competent, that's a given, but more critically, they just plain don't care...

This thread is still alive? Huh.

At any rate, DP9's presence at Gencon was very low-key. They had a single booth, with three demo tables, a full display case and the Beta rules. They had some stock, and plenty of the rebranded GP squads, but that was about it. I spent some time there and it seemed like con-goers were enjoying themselves; there was about a 30-40% conversion rate for most demo tables which felt fairly good. What that translates to in terms of future sales is beyond me.

As far as the units go - ignoring the stupidity of giving every . single . variant a 'new name' - I think there's an idea to break with tradition as far as model equipment goes and make some changes that will allow for less TMWS and fewer 'optimized' platforms. However, the approach has been piecemeal, from what I can tell. Same goes for army construction - most people seem to like the new construction in comparison to the older method but it's still too restrictive for the scale of wargame that they are putting out, IMO.

It was very... shall we say telling... to compare DP9's booth to the booths for Dark Age, Mercs, Relic Knights, DZC, Infinity, Malifaux. Warmachine is the beast it always is; but Malifaux's plastics beat the snot out of everything else, and gives them a great position long term, I think. Infinity had a better presence again this year; I caught part of their seminar and their growth is basically geometric at this point. They're up to 33 FTEs at this point and project further growth. Relic Knights had a fairly strong showing - good banner, great booth, excellent rulebook (in terms of composition) - check it out yourself http://sodapopminiatures.com/media/downloads/relic-knights-rulebook-web.pdf. They shared a long booth with DZC, which has fantastic production quality for their figures and the paper-terrain to help them make good sales. I was impressed with what they can accomplish with DP9 style prices which was the real killer - better quality for the same price. Mercs had a strong showing as well, building off their previous success with 4 (!) new games; Myth (kickstarted), Mercs Recon, Mercs Conflict and Emergence Event. Their booth and demo area was always hopping. Dark Age also had a strong showing, with a small tournament and new miniatures. They seemed to be gaining steam more than losing it. Robotech Tactics was present as well... but, well - see the other thread for that. I had my heart set on buying a box, saw the miniatures and kept my wallet in check. I might get a Super VF-1S as a desk model, but that will be about it.

Just from the booth and presentation, I suspect DP9 is sliding into oblivion. It feels like just before L&L was released, but there doesn't appear to be a Mason to revamp the presentation into the glossy, professional format that seem to percolate through the market currently. I'll be interested to see how they fair, but I'm not terribly optimistic.

Thanks for the rundown of gencon. I made the comparison to some of those companies in my series of grog articles last year when I was trying to be optimistic and constructive. To be blunt, they remind me of the DP9 that got me into the game back in the mid 90's. Growing, big impressive booth.. and a life size hunter!! DZC is building 6 ft space ships exactly to scale for their upcoming space game and had a 2ft (?) mech from their game at their booth. Sorry to hear about the robotech minis but it isn't a surprise. Luckily, karma kicked palladium in the privates and their attempt to break their "backers first" promise backfired. The zentraedi minis overall with some exceptions are nice but the RDF stuff is disappointing from the pics (doubly so with their 3 colors plus overly heavy wash demo paint scheme).

As for this thread, it keeps shambling on just like DP9. I actually unsubscribed from it for the past month or so but reposted for a gencon update request. I'll likely bow out again after a few more days till the kickstarter starts.

Any feelings on whether you'll back the KS?

 warboss wrote:
and had a 2ft (?) mech from their game at their booth.

It was one of the PHR walkers; 2' seems a bit low on first recollection, but maybe I'm remembering wrong. It's was very impressive, if a bit roughly finished. The 'ultra-smooth' look of the PHR models - that comes out well in resin - was a bit rough at that scale. Another another pass with 1500 grit sandpaper or so would have made it fairly awesome instead of just cool. But that's just me being picky

 warboss wrote:
Sorry to hear about the robotech minis but it isn't a surprise. Luckily, karma kicked palladium in the privates and their attempt to break their "backers first" promise backfired. The zentraedi minis overall with some exceptions are nice but the RDF stuff is disappointing from the pics (doubly so with their 3 colors plus overly heavy wash demo paint scheme).

The Tomahawks and Spartans aren't bad, though the flash on their feet is annoying. The guardians were so static is was painful. The VFs looked okay from a tabletop perspective, but there's no way I'm assembling 12 models of 30 pieces each for a starter army. Forget that.

I was actually really impressed with the new painter that DP9 has found though. Whether or not you like the Scimitar (is that it's name?) the paintjob was very impressive in person. Kudos on that choice.

 warboss wrote:
Any feelings on whether you'll back the KS?

Categorically will not. There are too many design decisions that have been made that I disagree with. Having seen the sausage being made (so to speak) the deviations get under my skin... so it's probably best that I pass. I'm in the process of divesting myself of the bulk of my HG anyways (having 3 army carriers is probably 2 too many), and I'm not willing to pay the prices they want anyways. So pass.

You should admire the paintjob on the Scimitar. It was done by none other than Angel Giraldez, one of the most prominent guests at Gencon. He's the studio painter for Infinity, and absolutely one of the best in the world.

 Killionaire wrote:
You should admire the paintjob on the Scimitar. It was done by none other than Angel Giraldez, one of the most prominent guests at Gencon. He's the studio painter for Infinity, and absolutely one of the best in the world.

Hurm, strange. I thought I recalled someone telling me it was local-to-DP9 talent that had painted the Scimitar, not Angel. But I could be mistaken.

I remember something similar as well, and Angel is supposed to be working only for Corvus these days.
I can't find the source for the former though.

The news in the infinity thread was that he was going to be exclusively a corvus belli painter from then on but would finish whatever remaining contracts he had. While it is possible that DP9 had a long term contract with him, I highly doubt it. They don't seem to operate (admittedly from my very limited experience behind the scenes) with so much forethought as to hire a painter 2 years in advance from his last work for them (FIF models). My gut feeling is that they're more of a seat of the pants kind of company instead. In any case, I don't know who the painter is but I agree that the paint job is nice.

Because bad game design + High prices + Overdone genre > ??? > Profit

 warboss wrote:
I won't be bending over for DP9 yet again. If they're going to half ass the new edition [..]

 IceRaptor wrote:
I think there's an idea to break with tradition as far as model equipment goes and make some changes that will allow for less TMWS and fewer 'optimized' platforms. However, the approach has been piecemeal, from what I can tell.

 IceRaptor wrote:
There are too many design decisions that have been made that I disagree with.

I gave serious consideration a week or so back to creating a "fan edition" of the Northern PDF from the workable draft version as handed in by the test team along with the necessary datacards et al, and then maybe doing the same to South or the CEF & Colonial factions, but I decided in the end it's probably far too much work with so few people still actively playing the game.

To be honest I think it would be far better to spend that kind of time coming up with my own take on the setting from the original material, or collaborating on same, whether anyone used the subsequent ruleset and material or not.

 IceRaptor wrote:
I thought I recalled someone telling me it was local-to-DP9 talent that had painted the Scimitar, not Angel. But I could be mistaken.

Lightning Scimitar painted by Jean-Denis Rondeau

 HudsonD wrote:
I remember something similar as well, and Angel is supposed to be working only for Corvus these days. I can't find the source for the former though.

Giraldez Exclusively Painting for Infinity - Drops All Other Mini Companies

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Jean-Denis Rondeau was the painter.

http://dp9forum.com/index.php?showtopic=16375&hl=

Kickstarter announcement thread is up. My post (in case something happens to it) will be quoted below for posterity.

I'm interested as long as the beta rules don't end up making large parts of armies illegal or unable to be used with other parts due to sudden faction restrictions on previously standard models (which is unfortunately currently the case). I'm anxiously awaiting the September FAQ/Errata to see if the half of my completely standard general TPS Nucoal force with NO subfaction specific models can be used with the other half. Unfortunately, the initial beta release leaves me no access to my Hetarois at all and only a single subfaction that can use the jetbikes, both of which were previously universally available for NuCoal.

I had hoped that DP9 had learned from the mistakes of FIF when this exact same thing happened but that doesn't seem to be the case. Robert, I hope you don't take this the wrong way but locking previously ubiquitous units behind a subfaction means that only a small portion of the playerbase for that factions will be able to use their EXISTING minis as well as only a small portion of new players will BUY that mini.

Previously, EVERY nucoal player could buy Hetaroi tanks. Currently, NO nucoal players can buy Hetarois. Even with the errata Dave mentioned to fix this mistake, only ONE subfaction (HAPF) players can buy Hets. You're losing potentially 80%+ of the potential customer base by locking the model behind the subfaction Berlin Wall. The same is true of jetbikes. Take all your jetbike sales from the past few years and divide that by 5. That is how many players will be able to buy them on average because they're going from available to ALL nucoal players to JUST ONE subfaction (PAK). You're basically dividing the potential customer base by 4-5 roughly for each model you lock behind a subfaction Berlin Wall. I have only looked up my smallest army (NUCOAL) and found these issues but can only guess that I'll find more in my southern and northern armies. I do hope that these types of issues (like missing models) get resolved before the kickstarter.

I anxiously await both further KS news and whether I'll be able to use the models I already own as my participation in the former is completely dependent on the latter.

Well, looks like DP9 can't afford their rulebook anymore... Cute.

 warboss wrote:
http://dp9forum.com/index.php?showtopic=16375&hl=Kickstarter announcement thread is up.

CGHC 23 August 2014 - 11:01 AM wrote:I'm interested as long as the beta rules don't end up making large parts of armies illegal or unable to be used with other parts due to sudden faction restrictions on previously standard models (which is unfortunately currently the case).
I anxiously await both further KS news and whether I'll be able to use the models I already own as my participation in the former is completely dependent on the latter.

 HudsonD wrote:
Well, looks like DP9 can't afford their rulebook anymore... Cute.

Given the, less than completely positive, comments being left on the Facebook notice for the planned KS as well I'm a little surprised that pruning or thread-locking hasn't happened yet for both web locales.



Had to laugh at this though;

Dream Pod 9 wrote:The Kickstarter's only purpose is to fund the production of new rulebook and what’s needed for it; writing, copy editing, layout, artwork, painting up a lot of miniatures to the new high level paint jobs, terrain, and photos. Plus to make sure we have enough copies of the new Core Rules pre-ordered to pay for everything.

Dream Pod 9 wrote:The Beta Rules are a free ebook download, but we'll need to pay the artists, miniature painters, copy editor, etc. so we need charge for the final rulebook.

Oh, this is now suddenly a concern after literally losing everyone that used to do those things, many when they wouldn't do work anymore solely for product related to a game almost no one plays?
And I notice el presidente neglected to mention exactly who will be doing the "writing," layout, and photos for this particular Pod release. Touch shady, that there, considering Robert is the one who does those things.
The Pod also keeps spending what they don't have re-painting miniatures to try and draw folks, while doing absolutely nothing about things like charging $40USD for individual models less than 2 3/4" (68mm) tall.

Not to mention, will backers get some/all of their money back if the only level to meet its funding is for the PDF version?
Because "The final book release would be Summer 2015 at Gen Con for the 20th Anniversary of Heavy Gear. Backers would get their copies mailed out the month before the official release." sure indicates to me that TPTB believe a physical book will happen.
Meaning Robert thinks a KS can't possibly fail even though DP9's "official" company forums are essentially dead and their Facebook page not much better, with even some of those few folks commenting on how a rules only funding drive won't garner the necessary attention.

This is not a recipe for success. Although that fact hasn't stopped them in the past, either.

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While I too am curious as to who will work on the book, I don't think the initial announcement is the place to advertise it. If they're "celebrities", they'll likely announce it later. If they're first timers, I don't think they ever will. In any case, there are bigger fish to fry beyond who they've gotten to work with and potentially burn out next.