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Hello Everyone! I have just come into infinity recently through a demo at a FLGS. I have purchased the Yu Jing Imperial service and I will be playing 200 pts vs another friend who picked it up as well. I want to run a 3 man link team and I would like some criticism on my list.


Celestial Guard combi X2
Celestial Guard Sniper
Hsien MULTI Rifle
Imperial agent Shotgun
Wu Ming HMG

Just a bit of advice, as it's clear you're coming from a 40k background.

Criticism of a list is purely personal play style. There are no must take units, nor any complete stinkers. Even the very, very few units considered 'bad' are still perfectly usable. People have their own checklists for building a list, which for them can govern what units they take, but the mentality behind making a list is so very different to 40k. The basic idea of 'if you like it take it' works pretty well in Infinity.

Your list looks fun. A small 3 man link for order efficiency and boosting the sniper can be effective, and your list definitely has teeth with 2 HI's, one with a HMG and one with a multi rifle.

However, I'd point out that at 200pts, you're probably going to be facing someone with around 8 orders. Order pools are king in Infinity, and low order list take skill to use properly. You really need to plan ahead.

While you gain order efficiency from the 3 man link, it's also incredibly easy for one Celestial Guard to bite the dust, shattering your order efficiency gain from the link. People will notice that's where your list is getting its order efficiency from and probably wouldn't hesitate to suicide a unit to break the link. Without a doctor you won't get the link back up either.

Personally (again, this is personal playstyle opinion) I'd drop one of the HI to bring a couple of cheaper units. But that's just my inner Haqqislam shining through since we like having lots of cheap units.

Hmm, first though (having just added it all up in Infinity Army) is that the list appears to be 209 points

IMPERIAL SERVICE
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 6 0 0

CELESTIAL GUARD Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (13)
CELESTIAL GUARD Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (13)
CELESTIAL GUARD MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 27)
HSIEN Lieutenant MULTI Rifle / Pistol, AP CCW. (+1 | 60)
IMPERIAL AGENT Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Monofilament CCW. (53)
WU MÍNG HMG / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 43)

2.5 SWC | 209 Points

Open with Army 4

So you will need to dump a thing or two to get under the point cost. My first thought is to lose the Pheasant Agent. Sadly, they are very expensive and very fragile for what they do, and with no smoke in your army he wont have a fun time even attempting to get to close range.

Next, that Celestial Guard link team could use some smoke. Pop in a CG with a smoke grenade launcher and Kuang Shi Control Device. Even without any Kuang Shi in your list, this thing is great (and it only costs the 0.5SWC over the normal one). It also goes well with your Hsien who can see through the smoke it produces. Either way, should be easy to proxy a CG with smoke grenade launcher.

Beyond that, I'd probably scrounge up proxies and do this instead:

IMPERIAL SERVICE
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 8 0 2

HSIEN Lieutenant MULTI Rifle / Pistol, AP CCW. (+1 | 60)
WU MÍNG HMG / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 43)
CELESTIAL GUARD Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (13)
CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13)
CELESTIAL GUARD Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 20)
NINJA Combi Rifle / Pistol, EXP CCW. (38)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (5)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (5)

2.5 SWC | 197 Points

Open with Army 4


The MSR is a pretty nice weapon (especially in a link), but it also eats up a lot of points because of MULTI ammunition. It can produce good results and has great range, but I'd probably save the points and grab the Spitfire instead. With a mobile squad like the Celestial Guard, they should be able to smoke and move to a good range and then you have a burst 5 weapon in a good position. My priority on a CG link is usually grab the Spitfire first and grab the MSR if I can make it a 5-man link.

The agent is swapped out for a ninja. In a lot of ways, they fill the exact same role. Light and skirmishy. But the ninja does it better for cheaper. It can get in close, has a combi rifle for getting a good number of shots in and the EXP CCW is actually superior at killing most lighter infantry units than the mono-CCW (more roles == better in these cases; a mono-CCW is as effective against a TAG as it is against a light infantry unit). That and having a hidden unit will give you some subterfuge in the list and make it less straightforward to defend against.

With the points saved you can grab two Kuang Shi which will provide orders, a bit of close-support anti-camo and a few other nifty benefits that the rest of the force can make use of (forward observer for the smoke LGL, explode lets it hurt units that get too close). These things are pretty amazing at 5 points a pop.

This also nets you 8 orders instead of 6, which will likely put you ahead of the game unless your opponent is savvy to Infinity's focus on action economy (most aren't, still remember playing a lot of early games at 150-200 points with 4-6 minis... ah, to be young again ).

Oh and here is an alternative list if you want to go proxy crazy and just try a few things out (but sticking with the 3-man CG team).

IMPERIAL SERVICE
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 8 1 1

HSIEN HMG / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 61)
CELESTIAL GUARD Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (13)
CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13)
CELESTIAL GUARD Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 20)
CELESTIAL GUARD Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (13)
CELESTIAL GUARD Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (13)
NINJA Combi Rifle / Pistol, EXP CCW. (38)
SFORZA Viral Rifle + Adhesive Launcher, Nanopulser / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (23)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (5)

2.5 SWC | 199 Points

Open with Army 4

So this one expands out to a 5-man link team centered around the Spitfire. They form a pretty good defensive rock and now have Sixth Sense L2 (one of the best defensive skills in the game) and +3 BS. So that spitfire is a burst 5 weapon that has a BS equivalent to a PanO heavy infantry suit. There are also enough decoys to hide the lieutenant in there. This allows us to shuffle the HMG on to the Hsien instead of the Wu Ming. The Hsien HMG loves Celestial Guard smoke cover. Just lay down some smoke and the Hsien can let rip with some real firepower (at a longer range than the Spitfire).

The ninja sticks around, but dropping the Wu Ming also allows us to get sneaky and grab Father Lucien Sforza. This guy is a great decoy that can either project force greater than he appears (make him look like a big nasty bruiser and make your opponent nervous about a flank) or he can appear to be a tasty target that isn't what it appears to be (disguise him as a lone Celestial Guard that could be yet another place for a lieutenant to hide). And afterwards Holoprojector 2 allows him to play tricks with the enemy and win firefights. Considering he is toting a viral rifle and an ADHL, this can be bad news for them.

Now is the best time to really play around with things, take some risks in list-building and get to know your force. Both of the forces I posted will require some proxying (hopefully you have a few non-Infinity 28mm models to call on), but should serve pretty well.

Good luck.


EDIT!!!

Ha, just realized I had popped the wrong agent in in the first list. Disregard comments about being over the limit. There is a 12 point difference between those guys. You're just fine on that count.

Agreed on dropping Sforza into the list. He is a really sneaky surprise to a lot of players who don't expect him, and he can be incredibly lethal, with plenty of fun tricks.

But, about the Holoprojector, if it is a Holoprojector Lvl2 then he puts out holoechoes of himself. But the Lvl2 doesn't allow him to disguise himself as another unit, that is a skill only tied to the Lvl1 Holoprojector.

Both are cool abilities though.

 Chemical Cutthroat wrote:
But the Lvl2 doesn't allow him to disguise himself as another unit

... at the same time as projecting echoes. Like with levelled skills, the Holoprojector is a piece of equipment where you can choose to use it as a lower level.

 MarcoSkoll wrote:

 Chemical Cutthroat wrote:
But the Lvl2 doesn't allow him to disguise himself as another unit

... at the same time as projecting echoes. Like with levelled skills, the Holoprojector is a piece of equipment where you can choose to use it as a lower level.

I didn't realize Equipment worked the same way as skills!

So you could deploy with Level 1, and then when he gets into trouble or something swap it out to Level 2? That is crazy!

Sforza makes his way into almost all my ISS lists. The shell game is just too much fun, especially in model heavy lists were it's more difficult for your opponent to ballpark your list. He also makes Hsien Lts. and Sun Tze viable against good players.

Forget about the Imperial Agent Pheasant Rank, he's straight up garbage. People say there are no bad choices in Infinity and buy what looks cool, well there are bad choices and the Pheasant Rank is one of them. I use mine as an ISS Spec Ops.

I'm really not seeing what makes Pheasant ranks garbage. 40 odd points for an ARM 2 LI with Chain of Command and an X-Visor with a base BS of 12 isn't garbage. I can personally see myself taking them if I played Yu Jing.

Crane rank gets expensive, but they're ARM 3, 2W HI.

The Hacker and MSR profiles can be ignored since they're undercut in performance and cost by the Celestial Hacker and Bao MSR respectively.

So the only things of interest are the Chain of Command profiles. The main reason you would want to take it is because you're using one of the four obvious Lieutenants: Crane Rank, Hsien or the Sun Tzes. But you don't pay for Chain of Command as insurance for a timid Lt. you buy it as a warranty for fighting Lts. If you don't use the CoC to maximize the aggression of the Lt. you're paying for a situational ability and 40+ pts is steep for a skill that you're trying to avoid using.

For the Sun Tzes, despite their beefy profiles they are not front line fighters. They want to sit back and generate 2 orders for as long as possible. It's a hard sell because:
1) Sun Tze doesn't need to be aggressive to make the most of his Lt. order.
2) ~100 pts is expensive for two models that are going to try avoid fighting.

The Hsien Lt. can fight, but is held back by his short range weapon and his 4-2 mov. I'd much rather divert the points into a Hsien link if I wanted to use him as a fighting Lt.

The Crane is not as bad but is hard to justify. Linking it announces who your Lieutenant is without a serious game changer like -1 SWC or Strategos 3. The Spitfire profile is overshadowed by the Hsien HMG or the Su Jian both of which very close in pts and SWC. The Hsien having much better utility and the Su Jian being an incredible assault platform. If you could link the Spitfire or a Spitfire Lt. profile was released then I would definitely consider it.

It's much cheaper to just conceal the obvious Lieutenants by taking Sforza.

See, to me, what you're arguing is your personal preference for bringing the CoC models to call the Pheasant ranks garbage. That doesn't make them garbage, so it's pretty disingenuous to flat out tell a new player a unit he wants to use is garbage, you're just arguing your personal preferences.

Personally, I like CoC models even when I have a Lt I'd rather hide, because it's not uncommon for someone to guess well and drop an AD HMG down its throat and blast it to pieces.

Welcome GaussGuy, and thanks for provoking a really interesting discussion, v useful

How am I being disingenuous? I sincerely believe it's a bad profile; my opinion is not disingenuous if I don't purposely withhold information that would contradict it. I believe it's not worth the points invested to protect against Loss of Lieutenant and there are more effective alternatives. It's not like I want the Pheasant to be bad. The model is slick; I want to use it on the table. I wouldn't use it as my Spec Ops if I didn't want to find a use for it. If you don't consider my opinion worth anything which is understandable since I'm some dude on the internet; there's a 10 page thread on the CB forum about fixing the Imperial Agents. You can read it if you want a more nuanced discussion about the Pheasant/Crane.

If I am being disingenuous it is more disingenuous to tell prospective players that every profile is good and "It's you not your list". Those are only half truths the community uses to sell the game. There are bad profiles that rarely see the table, they're very rare since CB does a good job considering how many profiles there are. Once a player passes over the first learning curve hump, list building does matter. In ITS, careful list construction is just as important as smart playing. The community says there are no bad profiles because it's not worth bringing up the handful of bad profiles unless someone wants to use them and when they do you steer the new players away from them. The community says list building isn't important, but when a new player posts a list with a single obvious Lt. you steer the player into the concept of hidden Lt.

The problem with the Pheasant lies in it's base load out, if you strip the CoC from the profile (-8 pts) it's 33 pts. It's an expensive profile for something that wants to cut things with the monofilament and has no delivery system. So the CC abilities can either be used in self defense or counter attacking, which relies on your opponent moving within striking range of a MA3 monofilament. If you want to shoot with the X-Visor, the Bao does it better for 4 pts cheaper and has synergy with the absurdly undercosted Smoke LGL. What you're left with is a relatively expensive model that tries to be a jack of all trades, but really isn't since getting into CC is unlikely. The real value is the CoC, which ISS really likes for it's obvious Lts. but doesn't need since it has access to a cheap Holoprojector. Seriously Sforza protects the Lt., has better BS, can hunt TAGs with his ADHL, mows down infantry with his Viral rifle, is harder to hit and has a direct template. All for 18 pts less, which can buy 1-3 more orders offsetting his irregular status.

Also if you're losing an Lt. to AD HMGs it's not because your opponent got lucky or the AD HMGs are busted (they're not). It's because you the player messed up and made a mistake in deployment or positioning.

 4rgfvsw6p wrote:
you're paying for a situational ability and 40+ pts is steep for a skill that you're trying to avoid using.

CoC is, in general, not a skill CB wants to come without a disadvantage.

Cost-wise, even including the abnormally cheap Kempeitai in an average (despite their availability to only one sectorial), CoC options average at 35 points - and the Farzan is ARM 0, Kirpal Singh is Airborne Deployment (meaning you either have to lose out on orders for having him off the board, or pay for a rather expensive skill you're not using if he's deployed on the board) and the Myrmidon Officer CoC costs extra SWC (and auto-reveals any non-CoC ones as Lts).

CB often load up profiles with less than entirely useful skills and equipment to balance things and yet still stick to their pricing formula, so it's bad practice to get at looking at how awesome a unit would be if it had only what skills and equipment you absolutely want.

The Pheasant is not abnormally placed as far as CoC units. Only the Kempeitai is a really "roses and rainbow farts" CoC unit.

I'm not sure if I want roses and rainbow farts in my chain of command!

Okay, it's an odd metaphor, but of CoC models, only the Kempeitai is cheap, avoiding any big extra costs. Sure, they get 6th sense Lvl1 and Electric pulse, so they're not completely giving it away, but it's the only CoC option under 30 points.
(Except CoC Spec-Ops, but you have to exclude Spec-Ops from any discussion like this, else you'd reach the argument that Spec-Ops are most cost effective at everything, so take an entire list of them).

And I'd point out that of the JSA's 8 choices of Lts, 2 are Impetuous, 2 are Frenzied, 2 are TO infiltrators and 1 is a TAG. The remaining one is a LI with low stats that costs 2 SWC to field. JSA is a faction where it's fully expected you'll be throwing your Lt right into the thick of it, so it's fair they get the only really nice CoC option.

Basically, CoC is not really a 7 point skill. It's 7 points, plus however much more CB want you to pay for it, usually a number that totals up to a number in the vicinity of the high 30 pts.

And as for the other Pheasant options:
- the Sniper is one of relatively few models that can make itself really scary past 36" (and no, on the kind of tables I play on, shots in excess of 36" are not an uncommon thing). Again, not a particularly cheap ability, all in all.
- And the hacker is a fairly scary HI or TAG hunter - Immobilising an HI/TAG from out of LoF first makes it far safer to get in and chop it up with Monofilament.

 MarcoSkoll wrote:
CB often load up profiles with less than entirely useful skills and equipment to balance things and yet still stick to their pricing formula, so it's bad practice to get at looking at how awesome a unit would be if it had only what skills and equipment you absolutely want.

I disagree, when discussing CoC models they can be broken into two camps. Ones delibrately taken because you're Lieutenant is going to be sent into high risk situations. Those would be Kempei, Myrmidon Officers and G:Mnemonica. The second category are CoCs taken because you're afraid of Loss of Lieutenant which is the Pheasant. Farzans and Kirpal can be both depending on your list.

For the second category you need to examine the value the model itself adds without CoC because CoC is far more likely to be unusued. If it doesn't trigger you're down 8 pts plus whatever unused widgets are attached and the combat group slot, if it does it may keep you from losing the game. But then again you shouldn't have your Lt. in a situation that would almost gurantees a loss unless absolutely necessary. In the former category's case, the combat proficiency of the Lt. is making up for the points spent on the CoC. You're paying 8 pts for the opportunity to use the Lt. order as a regular order without fear of LoL, that's a heck of a deal. You still need to look at the value the CoC model adds sans CoC, but there's more wiggle room since the presence of the CoC acts as a force multiplier.

Kirpal and the Farzan add value by being fast moving specialists in ITS, in addition they let you bait overextensions by your opponent to kill your Lt. because their presence is hidden. The Myrmidon officer costs a whole 1 SWC, which is arguably more expensive than any other CoC adds value by being another source of Zero-V/Smoke and Enomotarchos. What does the Pheasant give you besides CoC? The option to link Bao.

To reiterate, if you want your Lt. to live dangerously it's a great idea to take CoC. If you're taking it because your hidden Lt. dies it's a crutch for poor play.

And as for the other Pheasant options:
- the Sniper is one of relatively few models that can make itself really scary past 36" (and no, on the kind of tables I play on, shots in excess of 36" are not an uncommon thing). Again, not a particularly cheap ability, all in all.
- And the hacker is a fairly scary HI or TAG hunter - Immobilising an HI/TAG from out of LoF first makes it far safer to get in and chop it up with Monofilament.

Until the campaign scenarios, ITS missions or YAMS expand to include 6x4, I see no reason to consider X-Visors as useful with MSRs. The Bao MSR with it's MSV2 is in every way better on a 4x4.

As for the Hacker, it suffers from the requirement that your opponent approach within a reasonable distance of the Pheasant. Running up to chop an HI? Just shoot it. Running up to chop a TAG, sometimes its worth it. There are other Anti-Tag options available that are less order intensive and don't expose the model. If it's going to take more than 6 orders to run up to lock and pop, shoot it with a B5 weapon and crit it down or glue it with Sforza.

 4rgfvsw6p wrote:
G:Mnemonica.

Which is not CoC. Yes, it's of similar use, but it's a bit like comparing a Regeneration to a Doctor. Similar result, different person paying for it.

You're paying 8 pts for the opportunity to use the Lt. order as a regular order without fear of LoL, that's a heck of a deal.

Which is why they don't let most factions take a cheap CoC option. Because letting you just pay 7 points over a troop you'd want anyway is way too good a deal for most factions.

- Would I take the Farzan CoC profile if it had CoC deducted? In Bahram, I'd almost certainly go for the FO choice instead - and in Vanilla, even that's in competition with the Al'Hawwa or Hunzakut.
- Kirpal Singh? Only if I really had nothing else to spend the 7 points over a regular Akali Combi on (or no SWC for an HMG Akali), as only the Assault Pistol and +1 PH are that great.
- The Kempeitai? Well, this is an option anyway - and while I don't think it's bad, it's not phenomenally popular with people I know.
- The Myrmidon Officer? Maybe, if I didn't have enough spare points to take Machaon or Eudoros instead.

A fairly defining characteristic for me is that almost every CoC model with CoC taken away tends to leave something pretty mediocre.

Until the campaign scenarios, ITS missions or YAMS expand to include 6x4, I see no reason to consider X-Visors as useful with MSRs. The Bao MSR with it's MSV2 is in every way better on a 4x4.

Oh, there have been times, even on 4x4 boards, that I'd've happily traded in a sniper's MSV2 for an X-Visor. Not such a huge number that I struggle to put a Djanbazan in my list over a Lasiq... but then again, that's also partly because my Djanbazan sniper is nearly incapable of failing his regeneration roll.

As for the Hacker, it suffers from the requirement that your opponent approach within a reasonable distance of the Pheasant.

That's not hard to bait an an opponent into with the right deployment. Most of the times I've met a TAG recently, I haven't had to put in any appreciable effort to get in a hacking attempt - even despite my opponents blowing extra orders on taking non-ideal routes to try and stay out of reach of the hacker.

Well it appears I have opened quite the can of worms... Im still at the "im gonna make pew pew noises till you die" stage of the game haha.

 GaussGuy wrote:
Well it appears I have opened quite the can of worms... Im still at the "im gonna make pew pew noises till you die" stage of the game haha.

Don't worry about it! Just get some popcorn and enjoy the ride. You might learn something about the game. That's pretty much all I do on this website, post random and stupid stuff then watch what happens (anybody who has seen my activities can most likely confirm this).

Making pewpewpew noises is acceptable at ANY level of experience of the game. Although, I do get your point that it's not the most effective tactic going!

If you didn't make pew pew noises, it would be unnatural.

 MarcoSkoll wrote:
Which is why they don't let most factions take a cheap CoC option. Because letting you just pay 7 points over a troop you'd want anyway is way too good a deal for most factions.

That's the reasoning that makes the CoC Pheasant fundamentally flawed. You're not using it to pump orders into a monster like Spitfire Achilles + Officer (3 orders generated by one of the toughest models in the game, please sir may I have some more?). They cost 119 pts and 3 SWC which is a huge investment if not for the fact Achilles can reliably beat 2 models simultaneously in FtF and sometimes 3 if the modifiers are there. The Pheasant's role in ISS is a back up Lt. there are no monsters to fuel in the list, so applying the same pointing algorithm makes the cost too high. At the same time he's available to vanilla YJ so you can't shave the points off his profile without causing balance issues in YJ.

- Would I take the Farzan CoC profile if it had CoC deducted? In Bahram, I'd almost certainly go for the FO choice instead - and in Vanilla, even that's in competition with the Al'Hawwa or Hunzakut.
- Kirpal Singh? Only if I really had nothing else to spend the 7 points over a regular Akali Combi on (or no SWC for an HMG Akali), as only the Assault Pistol and +1 PH are that great.
- The Kempeitai? Well, this is an option anyway - and while I don't think it's bad, it's not phenomenally popular with people I know.
- The Myrmidon Officer? Maybe, if I didn't have enough spare points to take Machaon or Eudoros instead.

Yeah, I'm not particularly impressed by the Farzan or Kirpal. If the Farzan didn't reveal himself when CoC kicked in, it would be a more interesting choice. I've always had a low opinion of PanO AD troops since they're being charged for AD3 when they're low PH forces them into AD2. Maybe if you want to run Toni as a rambo.

Kempei is very worthwhile in JSA since it also makes their fighting Lts. like Asuka and the O-Yoroi better which fits into their aggressive style of play. The low cost and the Sixth Sense don't hurt.

If I'm running Achilles, the Myrmidon officer is always the second purchase. If I'm not Lt. Eudoros is a natural partner for Phoenix. Machaon is alright if there's not too much NWI in the list, since I don't like to gamble even with WIP15.

Oh, there have been times, even on 4x4 boards, that I'd've happily traded in a sniper's MSV2 for an X-Visor. Not such a huge number that I struggle to put a Djanbazan in my list over a Lasiq... but then again, that's also partly because my Djanbazan sniper is nearly incapable of failing his regeneration roll.

It's a function of how ISS is played. The Celestial Guard Smoke LGL is such a cheap and good investment, the lack of cheap Camo and the multitude of MSV2 options makes shooting MSV2s through smoke is one of the central tactics for bypassing FtF.

That's not hard to bait an an opponent into with the right deployment. Most of the times I've met a TAG recently, I haven't had to put in any appreciable effort to get in a hacking attempt - even despite my opponents blowing extra orders on taking non-ideal routes to try and stay out of reach of the hacker.

Don't like the order drain, since you get one chance. I wouldn't even bother if the TAG had -9 BTS or they have 2 Hackers although either scenario is unlikely. Fail it and it's wasted orders to get in range and attempt the hack. Then you have to decide if you want to leave the hacker there to ARO and risk losing it if you fail a second time or your opponent sends something after it. I'm distrustful of single rolls with less than a 50% chance of success. Rather send a repeater REM out since it's much faster and doesn't risk the hacker.

 GaussGuy wrote:
Well it appears I have opened quite the can of worms... Im still at the "im gonna make pew pew noises till you die" stage of the game haha.

I know right? But hey, I learned something about equipment today that is just awesome. I can't wait to use it next time!

Lets be honest, you're not having fun at the table if you don't make sound effects while you're playing.

 GaussGuy wrote:
Well it appears I have opened quite the can of worms... Im still at the "im gonna make pew pew noises till you die" stage of the game haha.

Sorry about the derail. I'm a bit of a rambler.

Best way to learn is to play.

 4rgfvsw6p wrote:
The Pheasant's role in ISS is a back up Lt. There are no monsters to fuel in the list, so applying the same pointing algorithm makes the cost too high.

Well, I personally think people get a bit hung up over the L1 part of Sun Tze 1.0's Strategos, forgetting that L2 and L3 are huge bonuses in their own right (but already used by the time orders are being spent).

He's got ARM5, an effective 3 wounds and Total Immunity, so he's really hard to take down in ARO. Admittedly, if the new model had brought along a Spitfire (rather than a Boarding Shotgun) and acquired the 4-4 MOV of the Shang Ji armour it strongly resembles, he would have been a far better Rambo (even though he would have ended up more expensive, rather than cheaper), but I've never really seen him as a profile that's meant to be sitting around providing orders for other people.

 MarcoSkoll wrote:

 4rgfvsw6p wrote:
The Pheasant's role in ISS is a back up Lt. There are no monsters to fuel in the list, so applying the same pointing algorithm makes the cost too high.

Well, I personally think people get a bit hung up over the L1 part of Sun Tze 1.0's Strategos, forgetting that L2 and L3 are huge bonuses in their own right (but already used by the time orders are being spent).

He's got ARM5, an effective 3 wounds and Total Immunity, so he's really hard to take down in ARO. Admittedly, if the new model had brought along a Spitfire (rather than a Boarding Shotgun) and acquired the 4-4 MOV of the Shang Ji armour it strongly resembles, he would have been a far better Rambo (even though he would have ended up more expensive, rather than cheaper), but I've never really seen him as a profile that's meant to be sitting around providing orders for other people.

Agreed, Saladin seems to be more the Sit-Back-Commander, whereas Sun Tze seems to really want to use that Boarding Shotgun on someone.

So I played a few games and I must say I LOVE the Hsien, he single handedly won me the game when it was just him left on the board, Kept wiping out my opponents lieutenants to keep his orders down. Also I must agree that the pheasant rank really does not do much for me unless I keep him back for his CoC ability in the event the Hsien bites it. I went ahead and ordered the vanilla yu jing starter pack and 2 remotes with the 360 visor and total reaction which should keep me going for a little while.

Glad you had fun! That's the most important thing, and the Hsien's are really damn good.

The Total Reaction remotes are fun, but don't expect them to be as lethal as the well trained soldier. THey're more of a deterrent I find.

That is my idea to shut down lanes while my hackers/ specialists work on objectives