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I mean, he feeds of change, and through out your life your bound to make quite a few things change, and therefor feed him. Civilians I guess can get away with saying they dont change enough to get his attention, but what about the Space Marines and the Imperial Guard? I suppose they dont change things individually, but rather as a group, thus not getting his attention. But the higher ups? They dont really have excuses. The Commissars and Governors and commanders change the course of every one under there commands lives quite a bit. And what of the people who cause Extermanatus? They change billions of peoples lives all at once.

You don't. This is why Tzeentch is often the most powerful of the Chaos Gods, as his portfolio is based on the existence of reality itself. "Change is the only constant in the universe" and all that sort of thing.

Of course, Tzeentch only really cares about the real movers and shakers, and just because your actions are feeding a Chaos God does not mean it is bothering to pay any attention to you, even if you are one of its Champions. Chaos Gods really don't give much of a feth about mortals.

We are all a part of Tzeentch's great scheme; whether we want to be or not.

But the funny thing is that Tzeentch's schemes will never come to fruition. They just go on and on and on, for ever constantly changing without any purpose beyond the change itself. A succeeded, fulfilled scheme or plan would be stagnation.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
But the funny thing is that Tzeentch's schemes will never come to fruition. They just go on and on and on, for ever constantly changing without any purpose beyond the change itself. A succeeded, fulfilled scheme or plan would be stagnation.

The thing is, he doesnt even have a grand plan. He schemes simply because he can, it doesn't matter to him if the scheme fails, he gets fed either way. Even all-powerful god creatures need to do something with their time, I guess

Well, he's the god of hope and plotting. There's nothing left to hope and plot for once you've achieved your goals.

Many fans theorize this is why Tzeentch hasn't simply destroyed the Imperium through sheer tactical genius or whatever else. It's not hope if the Imperium stands no chance whatsoever, after all. Although I don't think the fluff ever explicitly stated that, it's true that Tzeentch and his daemons have been observed "seemingly" sabotaging himself from time to time, and Lords of Change have explicitly been stated to be the only daemons that sometimes (albeit rarely) assist the Imperium (one example being when one tricked and gave a heretical governor a teleporter beacon that summoned a bunch of loyalist dark angels)

it's even been noted Tzeetch schemes against HIMSELF, thus even when he loses, it may actually be "all according to plan"

Thats the thing about the Chaos gods, ESPECIALLYn Tzeethc and Khrone. defeating them just feeds them

TiamatRoar wrote:
Well, he's the god of hope and plotting. There's nothing left to hope and plot for once you've achieved your goals.

Many fans theorize this is why Tzeentch hasn't simply destroyed the Imperium through sheer tactical genius or whatever else. It's not hope if the Imperium stands no chance whatsoever, after all. Although I don't think the fluff ever explicitly stated that, it's true that Tzeentch and his daemons have been observed "seemingly" sabotaging himself from time to time, and Lords of Change have explicitly been stated to be the only daemons that sometimes (albeit rarely) assist the Imperium (one example being when one tricked and gave a heretical governor a teleporter beacon that summoned a bunch of loyalist dark angels)

Infact, even without opposition form Tzeentch, the Imperium is a pretty hopeful thing, they face impossible odds every day, and they change gak the most, being highly unpredictable and all. To destroy them would simply be idiotic.

Everyone feeds the Chaos gods all the time simply by existing. That's why they love Humans so much. We are their primary source of power and reason to existence. This is also why they don't really want to destroy the Imperium because it would actually weaken them since it would lead to the destruction of their primary source of nourishment. One of the reasons that Alpharius turned traitor during the Horus Heresy was because he was told in a vision that Horus victory would actually lead to the death of Chaos. Whether or not that's true is open to discussion.

The chaos gods are mostly the way they are because of excess.

While it isn't mentioned much anymore, all of the chaos gods got a positive domain to them as well (hope, honour, pleasure/striving for perfection, comfort/life). The reason why they are so dangerours is, that they want their own domain to exist solely and without any boundaries.

Every mortal feeds the warp in some way (even if they'd avoid all the conventional chaos gods, that would just mean that there is a new reflection in the warp), but, as seen in Slaanesh, that doesn't cause any harm unless it gets into the realms of obsession.


Someone trying out a new haircut? Just a small ripple in the warp. Someone striving for a political goal? Maybe a bit of a wave but still not enough to create an inteligent entity.

Say, a (pseudo)human trying to craft an galaxyspanning empire, uniting all people under him with his army of superhumans (all of which have such heightened perception that they have to immerse themselves in ritual and honour codes to avoid falling to chaos); Now that's the stuff the lord of all change has wet dreams about.

 Centurion Cajun wrote:
Everyone feeds the Chaos gods all the time simply by existing. That's why they love Humans so much. We are their primary source of power and reason to existence. This is also why they don't really want to destroy the Imperium because it would actually weaken them since it would lead to the destruction of their primary source of nourishment. One of the reasons that Alpharius turned traitor during the Horus Heresy was because he was told in a vision that Horus victory would actually lead to the death of Chaos. Whether or not that's true is open to discussion.

The vision was that Horus would kill humanity out of grief which would lead to the death of chaos. It's an important distinction because it means that the death of Chaos in this hypothetical scenario is attributable solely to Horus, and thus we can't say whether any other hypothetical factor would have led to the death of Chaos or not (in this hypothetical scenario). It's possible that had Horus won, and Chaos conquered the Imperium, and then Chaos assassinated Horus before he could kill humanity, Chaos would still be all-powerful and there wouldn't be an Imperium. Or possibly not. All we know is that in this hypothetical scenario, it's Horus himself that's the chaos killer.

Does he really feed on "change" though? I thought it was more the desire for change that perpetuated him. People's ambitions: dreaming and scheming about how they are going make their life better, and how they are going to turn things around. I would say the situation is actually the polar opposite of how the OP presented it. It is the poorest and most downtrodden people that do this the most: constantly dreaming and hoping and scheming about how they are going to "make it big" one day, and all the things that will be different. People in power don't dream about change. Their primary concern is usually to keep things the same as much as possible (with them on top). Change is just another word for "revolution"! No one in power likes the sound of that.

I think Marines and SoB probably have some level of immunity, in so far as their life is very much planned out for them in advance. Theirs is a position of great honour in their own eyes, and they take enormous pride in performing their duty. This shows that they are largely content and 'accepting' of their situation.

"Tzeentch was created and sustained by the desire for change that is an essential part of nearly all mortal life; almost all species are aware of the concept of a better tomorrow, and any form of dreaming, imagining or resolution for change empowers the Chaos God."

Of course, by committing change, one achieves what he promotes and change leads to the desire of more change thus feeding him which leads to a delicious buffet. Even Marines and SoB would provide it. The desire to change odds, the want to repent, the hope of getting to a higher rank, the want to live to atone more, the desire to protect humans, a dream of a better tomorrow. Such thoughts are dreams, hopes of change. A space marine wishing he could hear if something is true or false feeds him as well. Change itself does not feed him, he promotes it. But change leads to more change and so it perpetuates him.

He sees all.. We are all interwoven into his great scheme.. He just chooses who needs to be the bigger pieces on the board.

How on Earth did The Emperor ever manage to achieve anything with Tzeentch against him?!

Mellow wrote:
How on Earth did The Emperor ever manage to achieve anything with Tzeentch against him?!

Fool! To imply that the Emperor did not establish additional change is madness! Along with that, Tzeentch wanted his favorite servant made to be a mighty psyker but wanted him to originally be a mortal and to be betrayed multiple times. Along with that, he wanted a companion to play chess with. It gets boring you know? Necrons been sleeping, C'tan shattered, Eldar skulking about in webways, D Eldar staying away and when they come they want to cheat you out of your drinks, and no nids yet. So what? None of your neighbors are up for it and your roomates aren't much better. One of them wants to smash the table and get into a brawl, another is too lazy to get out of his bed, and the last is too obsessive with perfection and so his turns never end.

 StarTrotter wrote:
The desire to change odds, the want to repent, the hope of getting to a higher rank, the want to live to atone more, the desire to protect humans, a dream of a better tomorrow.

I personally feel that interpretation is too expansive. Slaanesh also deals with "desires" but not all desires are "lust". Even when it comes to pleasure, not all pleasures are excessive or deviant. I would draw a line there for Slaanesh. By the same measure, I don't think all 'conscious action' falls into the realm of Tzeentch, even though action is by definition change. There needs to be a little more to it than that. Even soulless machines can make decisions and choose a logical course of action, but that is clearly not what Tzeentch is interested in. There has to be some real wishing involved, some dreaming, some coveting. That's the human side the empowers him.

 Smacks wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:
The desire to change odds, the want to repent, the hope of getting to a higher rank, the want to live to atone more, the desire to protect humans, a dream of a better tomorrow.

I personally feel that interpretation is too expansive. Slaanesh also deals with "desires" but not all desires are "lust". Even when it comes to pleasure, not all pleasures are excessive or deviant. I would draw a line there for Slaanesh. By the same measure, I don't think all 'conscious action' falls into the realm of Tzeentch, even though action is by definition change. There needs to be a little more to it than that. Even soulless machines can make decisions and choose a logical course of action, but that is clearly not what Tzeentch is interested in. There has to be some real wishing involved, some dreaming, some coveting. That's the human side the empowers him.

But that's why chaos has positive traits like Tzeentch's dreams. If not, chaos would never have become a real thing since extremes aren't nearly as common. Along with that, it wouldn't work as well for how oftentimes the way to chaos starts minor and gradually grows as time goes by. The fault is that they are obsessive with their one element. Also, Slaanesh isn't even really about lust. But the desire to change odds is what I said. To be lazy, from a wiki!

"Tzeentch feeds upon the need and desire for change that is an essential part of all life in the universe. All men dream of prosperity, freedom and a better tomorrow. These dreams are not just the preserve of the impoverished or the powerless -- even Imperial Planetary Governors and Imperial Navy battlefleet admirals dream of further riches, or perhaps even an end to their responsibilities to the Emperor. All these dreams create a powerful impetus for change, and the ambitions of nations create a force that can challenge history. Tzeentch is the embodiment of that force within the Warp."

Tzeentch is the second strongest god and often even the strongest for a reason.

There is no clear logical pattern for who Tzeentch favors or chooses to pay attention to. Tzeentch pays attention to the scheming of high society nobles with their conspiracies and political backstabbing. Tzeentch pays attention to scholars seeking after forbidden knowledge or practicing magic (changing reality through force of will and the warp). Tzeentch has also been shown in GW sources to at times favor those trying to revolt and upset the status quo, such as cults trying to foment revolution.

Tzeentch is all about the desire to change, the scheming for change, as well as the upheaval caused by the actual change. He delights in the sudden uplifting of a beggar that somehow wins a lottery with his last penny and becomes fabulously wealthy and Tzeentch can also delight in the fall of a noble conspirator that has his hopes built up only to be dashed upon the rocks of failure.

Does Tzeentch are about winning? It seems not, though admittedly we never see plots where losing would mean the Tzeentch being personally threatened. The plots he dabbles in all over the galaxy are essentially insignificant in the grand scheme of things to him. All his pawns including his daemons are expendable. Tzeentch is like the mulit-billionaire gambling 1 dollar bets just for the fun of it. Even if he loses, it's all pocket change and Tzeentch has plenty in reserve.

The wiki states that Tzeentch can take an interest in not just galactic change, but individual changes of an individual's life. The lottery example being a good one. It's just sometimes seemingly (seemingly) random where his attention falls. Well, it wouldn't be change if he did things in a predictable pattern.

As for how the Emperor dealt with him, it IS possible to win against him. Tzeentch isn't perfect, and probably doesn't want to be, because if he were perfect, he wouldn't be able to change. I think the times Tzeentch is claimed to be able to manipulate everything is just hyperbole or boasting, since he's been explicitly shown to be defeatable or not all knowing (Fateweaver's origin or that time a little girl with her dog infiltrated his lair, for example). Furthermore, it's not hope if he's undefeatable, and he actually apparently sometimes prefers to have his minions scheme against him for that purpose (he was glad to see Magnus try to resist him, lets Ahriman do his thing, and his daemons are often times scheming or possibly against him, though he puts fail safes on some of them since he's smart enough to protect himself, like with the twin horrors or Au' Rares' Kares however you spell his name). Nurgle's explicitly caused quite a few of his schemes to crash, too. The fact that Tzeentch doesn't have an end goal by nature helps, too.

Even if you "win" against Tzeentch, it is likely that your victory went exactly as planned, all along.

Tzeentch is, after all, the Architect of Fate.

You cannot avoid feeding any of the gods. Because you're a human.

You will die. When you do you will feed nurgle. If you get sick, which you will, you feed him as well.
You will experience both pain and pleasure in your life. This feeds Slaanesh
You will have hope and desires and change things. This feeds Tzeentch.
You will have feelings of anger and wish to or actually cause violence upon others. This feeds Khorne.

All humans feed all gods. The only way to avoid this is to end your own life, which will feed Nurgle still. The Purge warband, which worships Nurgle, accepts all this in full and invokes Nurgle to kill as much life as they can to bring about a universe pure of all chaos and life.

The existence of chaos isn't all that bad. It simply means that the existence of a Utopia is impossible. Much like the real world.

 changerofways wrote:
You cannot avoid feeding any of the gods. Because you're a human.

You will die. When you do you will feed nurgle. If you get sick, which you will, you feed him as well.
You will experience both pain and pleasure in your life. This feeds Slaanesh
You will have hope and desires and change things. This feeds Tzeentch.
You will have feelings of anger and wish to or actually cause violence upon others. This feeds Khorne.

All humans feed all gods. The only way to avoid this is to end your own life, which will feed Nurgle still. The Purge warband, which worships Nurgle, accepts all this in full and invokes Nurgle to kill as much life as they can to bring about a universe pure of all chaos and life.

The existence of chaos isn't all that bad. It simply means that the existence of a Utopia is impossible. Much like the real world.

The way I see it, a Utopia is possible, but only through embracing that chaos WILL exist, and we WILL feed it. You'd just need to accept these facts, and accept Chaos but do not invite it into your mind.