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 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
I thinking that your limited personal perspective might not be entirely representative here.

Just guessing though!

Maybe, I Hate Sports in Academia. IT is a stain and poisons good universities in letting in morons who can throw balls so they can continue to sell tickets to their gakky events. It does not let those with actual promise in.

Ho-lee-gak.

You're out of touch here, my friend.

Quite a bit.

No, I am not. That is my opinion on sports in school.

I'd like to see sports divorced from higher learning as well, while being fully aware that it's not actually possible to do so.

The entire American fascination with grown men throwing a little ball around while we pay them truckloads of money to clap is just a bit bizarre, in my opinion.

 Ouze wrote:
I'd like to see sports divorced from higher learning as well, while being fully aware that it's not actually possible to do so.

The entire American fascination with grown men throwing a little ball around while we pay them truckloads of money to clap is just a bit bizarre, in my opinion.

Not to mention, There are so any people worth following, Tyson, Sagan, Nobel Laureates

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
No, I am not. That is my opinion on sports in school.

That's not an opinion.

You're claim was that "it doesn't let the worthy in."

That's fething nonsense.

I'm sorry if you got shoved in a locker by some high school football players or something, but you're incredibly out of touch here, and your vitriol is colouring any good judgement and reason you have in other threads.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ouze wrote:


The entire American fascination with grown men throwing a little ball around while we pay them truckloads of money to clap is just a bit bizarre, in my opinion.

Why?

It's been that way in nearly every culture throughout history. It's hardly uniquely American.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Ouze wrote:


The entire American fascination with grown men throwing a little ball around while we pay them truckloads of money to clap is just a bit bizarre, in my opinion.

Why?

It's been that way in nearly every culture throughout history. It's hardly uniquely American.

I know that pretty much every culture has played sports, but I'm not sure the level to which it pervades our culture fits within those - is it common for other countries to routinely suppress rapes, child molestations, assaults, and other criminal acts, manufacture fake classes and curriculums, and so on, to further the all important sports programs? I don't generally read about that kind of thing happening elsewhere nearly as much as it does here. Do other countries give enormous tax breaks to wildly profitable franchises? That sort of thing? I don't think Europe even really have a semi-pro university sports franchise system the way we do here, do they?

 cincydooley wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
No, I am not. That is my opinion on sports in school.

That's not an opinion.

You're claim was that "it doesn't let the worthy in."

That's fething nonsense.

I'm sorry if you got shoved in a locker by some high school football players or something, but you're incredibly out of touch here, and your vitriol is colouring any good judgement and reason you have in other threads.

Actually, I never got bullied by football players in HS.
I just see the culture the surrounds sports. Stubenville, Micheal Vick Dogfighting ring and hazing. Not to mention the vehment anti-LGBT the arises from said sports.
It does not. Why should those boys, who could nt read beyond 5th grade, get let into a school for the Elite?

 cincydooley wrote:


That's not an opinion.

You're claim was that "it doesn't let the worthy in."

That's fething nonsense.

Hate to say it, but it's correct. Many schools put priorities on getting good players for said sports, over attracting good students. Anyone can get into college these days if they have money, but good sports players make the college money.

 juraigamer wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:


That's not an opinion.

You're claim was that "it doesn't let the worthy in."

That's fething nonsense.

Hate to say it, but it's correct. Many schools put priorities on getting good players for said sports, over attracting good students. Anyone can get into college these days if they have money, but good sports players make the college money.

And then there are colleges who do stuff like this:

If you’re in the top 10% of your high school graduating class, you’re eligible for automatic admission to any public university in Texas. To meet the requirements for automatic admission, you must:

Graduate in the top 10% of your class at a public or private high school in Texas, or
Graduate in the top 10% of your class from a high school operated by the U.S. Department of Defense and be a Texas resident or eligible to pay resident tuition;
Enroll in college no more than two years after graduating from high school; and
Submit an application to a Texas public university for admission before the application deadline. (Check with the university for specific deadlines).

If you’re admitted to college through the Top 10% Rule, you may still be required to provide SAT or ACT scores, but these scores are not used for admissions purposes. You must also take the THEA test, unless you’re exempt from the test requirement. Be sure to check with the school's admissions office regarding THEA, SAT and ACT requirements. (For general information on SAT, ACT and THEA, click on “The Tests You’ll Need.”)

After you’re admitted, the university may review your high school records to determine if you’re ready for college-level work. If you need additional preparation, you may be required to take a developmental, enrichment or orientation course prior to your first semester of college. Please keep in mind that admission to a university does not guarantee acceptance into a particular program of study or academic department.

How does this ppertain to anything?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
How does this ppertain to anything?

The argument is that good students are kept out of college, so I post a state where the law is that the top 10% automatically get into any college they want, no matter what.

Which is texas. A state a lot more progressive then cali, it just won't admit it

...

OK.

Anyway, everyone, please remember the rules of this site when posting in this thread.

Rule #1 in particular.

Thanks!

 Ouze wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 Ouze wrote:


The entire American fascination with grown men throwing a little ball around while we pay them truckloads of money to clap is just a bit bizarre, in my opinion.

Why?

It's been that way in nearly every culture throughout history. It's hardly uniquely American.

I know that pretty much every culture has played sports, but I'm not sure the level to which it pervades our culture fits within those - is it common for other countries to routinely suppress rapes, child molestations, assaults, and other criminal acts, manufacture fake classes and curriculums, and so on, to further the all important sports programs? I don't generally read about that kind of thing happening elsewhere nearly as much as it does here. Do other countries give enormous tax breaks to wildly profitable franchises? That sort of thing? I don't think Europe even really have a semi-pro university sports franchise system the way we do here, do they?

Cincy, Ouze's statement is definitely true. In the 1960s, The average MLB salary (who were collectively the highest paid professional athletes in that time) was 7 times that of the Average US workers' salary. Now, it is something like 200 times the average US workers' salary.

If you look around the world, not all professional sports, or sports leagues are money riddled crime syndicates either. Take for example, in New Zealand, the NZ All Blacks pay Dan Carter and Richie McCaw each 750,000 NZD per year to play rugby. While I don't know the particulars as to whether that is 750k for JUST the ABs uniform, or if it's for the ABs, their Super Rugby club, AND their ITM Cup clubs combined (I believe it's the latter) Yes, it's quite a good living, though it's still not the norm. It was common for the "legendary" All Blacks hooker, Andrew Hore to work his sheep farm during the offseason, that's how much money he made playing rugby.

Same thing with the NFL, if you see documentaries of 1960s and 1970s NFL players, a VERY large number of them had to have actual jobs in the off season if they were to survive at all. Unless your name was Staubach, Bradshaw or Unitas (something where you are basically the face of the franchise), you simply didn't make enough to make it through the off season.


Yes, every civilization has venerated sports and the "heroic" players of such sports, the difference is, with modern ball games they were almost all universally started off under a strict "amateur" ethos. Hell, Rugby Union didn't professionalize until 1996 or 97 As there was a rather "victorian" view on how sports were a gentlemanly pasttime, they should be paid as such, even once professionalized, as it's the spirit of competition that is supposed to produce excellent play, not desire for money or profit (from the players' perspective)


I mean, let's be completely honest... Is running a 10k, whilst juggling a ball about your feet REALLY, HONESTLY worth 200 million dollars? Isn't this around what guys like Lio Messi are being paid? Outside of that arena, where would there be any value in Lio Messi's abilities? As much as I love Jeter, and baseball... in what other avenue of life is there any value to being able to "squarely" hit a round ball with a round stick? Where is there any value in being able to jump in front of a 90mph, frozen rubber disk?

 Ouze wrote:
I'd like to see sports divorced from higher learning as well, while being fully aware that it's not actually possible to do so.

The entire American fascination with grown men throwing a little ball around while we pay them truckloads of money to clap is just a bit bizarre, in my opinion.

Thank you Ouze for making laugh so hard to snort coffee out my nose.....
Placed a order on Ebay for Destroid box
Building additional 6mm building
Refurbing my old Battletech building.....

Tomorrow I go in surgery to remove some last steel splinters in my chest (embedded in rib)

The college lost its integrity and it will take a long time for it to get it back.

 juraigamer wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:


That's not an opinion.

You're claim was that "it doesn't let the worthy in."

That's fething nonsense.

Hate to say it, but it's correct. Many schools put priorities on getting good players for said sports, over attracting good students. Anyone can get into college these days if they have money, but good sports players make the college money.

You do realize that athletes, on all collegiate levels, make up a tiny percentage of the student body right? A basketball team is going to have 12-15 players while the school is going to have thousands of students. The biggest sports team by far is football and that's about 100 players and that includes all the undergraduate classes and players who might be 5th year seniors or graduate students.

Specific revenue generating sports, football and mens basketball can dominate an athletic department but they don't have the numbers or leverage to make any real impact on how the school on a whole is managed.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 Ouze wrote:


The entire American fascination with grown men throwing a little ball around while we pay them truckloads of money to clap is just a bit bizarre, in my opinion.

Why?

It's been that way in nearly every culture throughout history. It's hardly uniquely American.

I know that pretty much every culture has played sports, but I'm not sure the level to which it pervades our culture fits within those - is it common for other countries to routinely suppress rapes, child molestations, assaults, and other criminal acts, manufacture fake classes and curriculums, and so on, to further the all important sports programs? I don't generally read about that kind of thing happening elsewhere nearly as much as it does here. Do other countries give enormous tax breaks to wildly profitable franchises? That sort of thing? I don't think Europe even really have a semi-pro university sports franchise system the way we do here, do they?

Cincy, Ouze's statement is definitely true. In the 1960s, The average MLB salary (who were collectively the highest paid professional athletes in that time) was 7 times that of the Average US workers' salary. Now, it is something like 200 times the average US workers' salary.

If you look around the world, not all professional sports, or sports leagues are money riddled crime syndicates either. Take for example, in New Zealand, the NZ All Blacks pay Dan Carter and Richie McCaw each 750,000 NZD per year to play rugby. While I don't know the particulars as to whether that is 750k for JUST the ABs uniform, or if it's for the ABs, their Super Rugby club, AND their ITM Cup clubs combined (I believe it's the latter) Yes, it's quite a good living, though it's still not the norm. It was common for the "legendary" All Blacks hooker, Andrew Hore to work his sheep farm during the offseason, that's how much money he made playing rugby.

Same thing with the NFL, if you see documentaries of 1960s and 1970s NFL players, a VERY large number of them had to have actual jobs in the off season if they were to survive at all. Unless your name was Staubach, Bradshaw or Unitas (something where you are basically the face of the franchise), you simply didn't make enough to make it through the off season.


Yes, every civilization has venerated sports and the "heroic" players of such sports, the difference is, with modern ball games they were almost all universally started off under a strict "amateur" ethos. Hell, Rugby Union didn't professionalize until 1996 or 97 As there was a rather "victorian" view on how sports were a gentlemanly pasttime, they should be paid as such, even once professionalized, as it's the spirit of competition that is supposed to produce excellent play, not desire for money or profit (from the players' perspective)


I mean, let's be completely honest... Is running a 10k, whilst juggling a ball about your feet REALLY, HONESTLY worth 200 million dollars? Isn't this around what guys like Lio Messi are being paid? Outside of that arena, where would there be any value in Lio Messi's abilities? As much as I love Jeter, and baseball... in what other avenue of life is there any value to being able to "squarely" hit a round ball with a round stick? Where is there any value in being able to jump in front of a 90mph, frozen rubber disk?

I'm sorry but you're taking a very myopic view on collegiate and professional sports. I don't say that to be antagonistic just to point out that you're personal perception of sports is coloring your evaluation of them. You can't try to ascertain the "true" value of an athlete by removing them from their sport. Making 750,000 NZD to play rugby is what that player is worth because his performance on the pitch makes the club far more money than that. 750K is good amount of money but the top football teams in every Power 5 conference have over 100,000 fans in attendance for every home game, which is about 2% of the total population of New Zealand. Think about 110,000+ people who all bought tickets, merchandise, concessions, parking just for that one day.

The NBA recently signed a new televison contract that pays the league 2 billion dollars annually for the rights to show their games. Two billion dollars. $2,000,000,000 every year. If you wanted to buy an NBA franchise today you would have to spend at least 1 billion dollars to get it. With that astronomical level of money involved just for tv rights, plus tickets, merchandise, advertising, endorsements, etc. yes the great players are easily worth 20-30 million dollars in salary. NBA owners collectively earn BILLIONS of dollars so it's completely fair and reasonable that the players who generate the product (games) make MILLIONS of dollars. Yes, players aren't curing cancer or doing some other worthwhile endeavor but they are generating billions of dollars of revenue and for that they are due the nice salaries they are paid.

And to piggy pack off of Prestor John's comments, I'll just leave this here:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2013/02/05/lebron-james-is-underpaid-by-the-heat-and-nike/

and this:

 Jihadin wrote:
Tomorrow I go in surgery to remove some last steel splinters in my chest (embedded in rib)

Good luck, and here's to a swift recovery

 Jihadin wrote:
The college lost its integrity and it will take a long time for it to get it back.

That is my concern as well. How many student athletes from UNC who worked hard, and did not take these classes, will now be tarred with the same brush as the others. When you factor in the loss of reputation to the academic institution and how it affects all those who have graduated it shows that integrity was sacrificed on a huge scale.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

That is my concern as well. How many student athletes from UNC who worked hard, and did not take these classes, will now be tarred with the same brush as the others. When you factor in the loss of reputation to the academic institution and how it affects all those who have graduated it shows that integrity was sacrificed on a huge scale.

1: Any student-athlete who would be tarred with that brush almost certainly would have been tarred anyway.

2: Many students who are not also athletes take easy courses in order to fulfill requirements, so it hardly seems fair to single those students out. UNC staff, yes. UNC student-athletes, no.

 cincydooley wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ouze wrote:


The entire American fascination with grown men throwing a little ball around while we pay them truckloads of money to clap is just a bit bizarre, in my opinion.

Why?

It's been that way in nearly every culture throughout history. It's hardly uniquely American.

Sport is good to watch, it's also a generally non confrontational way for people to de-stress, it makes people happy, it gives people something to believe in. I like sports , in fact I think trying to logically deconstruct recreational activities would not leave many activities available for people to do. listening to music- stupid, going to theatre - stupid, cooking anything but the bare minimum needed to get vitamins - stupid, playing with man-dollies - stupid.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
No, I am not. That is my opinion on sports in school.

Do you mean the minor leagues that are basketball and football or all sports? I hardly think my fencing class (protip, fence drunk and you'll do amazingly poorly) counts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ouze wrote:
I'd like to see sports divorced from higher learning as well, while being fully aware that it's not actually possible to do so.

The entire American fascination with grown men throwing a little ball around while we pay them truckloads of money to clap is just a bit bizarre, in my opinion.

Agreed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 d-usa wrote:

 juraigamer wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:


That's not an opinion.

You're claim was that "it doesn't let the worthy in."

That's fething nonsense.

Hate to say it, but it's correct. Many schools put priorities on getting good players for said sports, over attracting good students. Anyone can get into college these days if they have money, but good sports players make the college money.

And then there are colleges who do stuff like this:

If you’re in the top 10% of your high school graduating class, you’re eligible for automatic admission to any public university in Texas. To meet the requirements for automatic admission, you must:

Graduate in the top 10% of your class at a public or private high school in Texas, or
Graduate in the top 10% of your class from a high school operated by the U.S. Department of Defense and be a Texas resident or eligible to pay resident tuition;
Enroll in college no more than two years after graduating from high school; and
Submit an application to a Texas public university for admission before the application deadline. (Check with the university for specific deadlines).

If you’re admitted to college through the Top 10% Rule, you may still be required to provide SAT or ACT scores, but these scores are not used for admissions purposes. You must also take the THEA test, unless you’re exempt from the test requirement. Be sure to check with the school's admissions office regarding THEA, SAT and ACT requirements. (For general information on SAT, ACT and THEA, click on “The Tests You’ll Need.”)

After you’re admitted, the university may review your high school records to determine if you’re ready for college-level work. If you need additional preparation, you may be required to take a developmental, enrichment or orientation course prior to your first semester of college. Please keep in mind that admission to a university does not guarantee acceptance into a particular program of study or academic department.

MBAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH not correct. Its top 7% for UT Austin now. You will however get a full ride to UT Dallas. but then you have to go to, well Dallas. And who wants that?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 d-usa wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
How does this ppertain to anything?

The argument is that good students are kept out of college, so I post a state where the law is that the top 10% automatically get into any college they want, no matter what.

he's right though. There are football spots that could go to tuition paying members. Of course I could say the same for the international students.

 Frazzled wrote:

he's right though. There are football spots that could go to tuition paying members. Of course I could say the same for the international students.

And I could argue that in-state students don't generally pay full tuition, even despite their reduced rate.

I could argue that someone who only attended college with the help of a program should not be feeling intellectually elitist towards others in a similar institution who attended on different programs. It had to be said.

 Bullockist wrote:
I could argue that someone who only attended college with the help of a program should not be feeling intellectually elitist towards others in a similar institution who attended on different programs. It had to be said.

Most US students only attend college with the help of an aid program, often one not related to athletics, hence the argument about how in-state students don't usually pay full rates.

Anyway your attitude is the sort I fought against throughout college and grad school. I had to hide the fact that I made a habit of working out and playing sports because many people (professors included) assumed that doing either indicated a lack of intelligence or academic ability.

that's kind of what I was alluding to with a direct example.
I hate intellectual snobbery, it fething gaks me.

I'd suggest re reading my post- I cannot make it easier to read.

 dogma wrote:

 Bullockist wrote:
I could argue that someone who only attended college with the help of a program should not be feeling intellectually elitist towards others in a similar institution who attended on different programs. It had to be said.

Most US students only attend college with the help of an aid program, often one not related to athletics, hence the argument about how in-state students don't usually pay full rates.

I don't think he was directly referring to financial aid.

 cincydooley wrote:

I don't think he was directly referring to financial aid.

I never said otherwise. Scholarships are aid programs.

WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY WAS PEOPLE ON AID PROGRAMS SHOILD NOT TALK CRAP ABOUT OTHERS ON DIFFERENT PROGRAMS. I made this in caps because I did not understand how it got misconstrued ^^



Automatically Appended Next Post:
everyone who gets into uni is equal. If you want to hang social gak on someone because they are an athlete your sad. you are excluding them for quite possibly what you were excluded for in high school......grow up.

There is a distinct difference between getting in because you are good at football to getting financial aid so you get to go to a college you got accepted into