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 Peregrine wrote:

 ionusx wrote:
I'd also like to point out that another reason they have it is so you can pay for said online purchase with debit/cash as opposed to credit card which is a lot more convenient than setting up a PayPal and then having to wait a week for your deposits to clear before you can spend any kind of money oonline.

You can pay online with a debit card. The only reason you'd have trouble buying online and need the in-store option is if you're too young to have a bank account. For everyone else it's completely useless.

Also, you don't need to wait at all for a deposit into paypal, you can just pay straight away and it debits your card directly (so its basically paying with your credit/debit card with extra security for free).

Windchild wrote:

I've never really understood this attitude. Would you mind explaining it?

Why would you not want to play against a person, even if they were much younger then you?

Why am I not comfortable playing against a kid? I don't know, I'm just not, maybe its a cultural thing but over here you don't usually see full grown adults interacting with children that aren't their own like that.

Windchild wrote:

Verviedi's profile states his age, and with it his reply makes (some) sense.

Because he is still under 18, you would have him not go to GW stores or FLGS to build, paint, or wait for a pickup game (if possible). That seems very discriminatory based on his age.

That he might feel discriminated by his age is one thing and I understand that, what doesn't make any sense is why taking a different kind of army list would somehow change this.

Also I never said that I wouldn't wan't him to go anywhere to do anything, I just said that adult gamers feel more comfortable in an atmosphere where the age average is a bit higher and that is why they might prefer a FLGS over a GW.

Windchild wrote:

Yes, age discrimination is a real thing.

I never said that it wasn't, but I also fail to understand why it is a problem. Again, it might be a cultural thing but children and adults don't usually "mingle" over here.

Windchild wrote:

I can drive, and normally do so, when going to the local GW. Would you consider it 'free daycare' because I am under 18? Where do you draw the line?

You can drive in your own country, in mine you wouldn't be able to. I draw the line at the age that someone becomes an adult.

The store where I go is simply closer to the GW, its also much bigger and has a lot more tables.

Sells GW stuff with a discount, too. That said, the few times I went to the GW store, its been a good experience.

PhantomViper wrote:

Why am I not comfortable playing against a kid? I don't know, I'm just not, maybe its a cultural thing but over here you don't usually see full grown adults interacting with children that aren't their own like that.

This is not just a Portugal thing. In the US, I can't think of too many circumstances where its 100% appropriate for an adult to socialize with a minor that isn't part of his family...certainly not without their parents present.

Verviedi wrote:
It makes me sad when people say stuff like "All GW stores suck" and "Blah blah only GW"
A GW store is my FLGS. There are no other game stores I feel comfortable going to in my area, as what I've seen at those stores it's all adults playing games I don't care about. If all FLGS are like this, I don't know why people trash GW and get away with it.

The only real restrictions in place at my FLGS are that all models must be at least 75% GW. This is an easy restriction to bypass, and the GW range has more than enough bits for conversions.

There are 3 tables at the store I frequent. 1 demo table, 1 40k/fantasy table, and 1 40k table. There is almost always a table open, and you get to see great armies battling it out.


So why do people trash GW stores? I only buy about 50% of my stuff there, the rest is from Amazon. Can someone please explain/criticize/have a megahellargument)

To answer the question you asked, why do people not like GW stores?
Basically, I don't like GW for all the reasons you do like them. GW stores are small, few tables, few people, few options and no community.
My local store has at least 10 tables and more in another room for MTG. It carries GW games, Infinity, WMN, Dystopian, Firestorm Armada, X-Wing, Relic Knights and a few others. On any given night you'll see people playing any of the above mentioned games and even RPG's. They have snacks, drinks, tables with lamps for working on your minis, internet access and any kind of terrain you can think of.
In short, an FLGS is superior in every way. You're content with few tables and no options, that's okay. But don't expect others to be.

We really need to differentiate better between a "FLGS", a "LGS", and an "Independent"...

A GW can be a "FLGS", but it can't be an "Independent" shop.

With that said, your great Independent is not the same as the closest crummy Independent.

I don't know how other GW stores are, then the one we have here , only been only to WHW and didn't like the people there. I hope other GWs are different. Here there are 3 tables, but you can play only demo games on them. There was a time where you could have played normal games, but since a few new managers this is no longer the case, and even then one could only play if the models were bought in the GW store. Right now one can only play demo games or I should rather say game. If you come the second time around you can only play the game you didn't play before, and if you want to play w40k again, the manager tells people to buy the vengance set and do it at home.

Games workshop makes me sad as a place i really came into the hobby it was awesome made a bunch of mates i still play with today the hours we spent just chatting around the painting table using the shops paints it made a community had a massive bloodbowl league and wfb campaign but there doesnt seem to be anything like that anymore!

Also a lot of the op's posts just show the naivety of youth just because you don't need more than the gw store offers now that may not be the same in 1, 3 or 5 years time and having more choice is never a bad thing thing!

Well, this thread has shown that some loyalty can be had if you just treat the customer decently.
I find with the external pressures of the chain GW stores are not as relaxed in my experience (possible different North America experience).

I had spent a few days painting at my local FLGS (yes, not as good lighting / setup as my place), but it is amazing the interest you generate in new potential players and parents alike when they see the hobby happening. Talking about techniques and demonstrating some have been both an ego boost to me and felt good teaching others and they were happy to see the work. Seeing the average approachable "Joe-gamer" who does not have a vested interest in the store (other than loyalty for hosting) allows for being a ambassador for the hobby.

I have seen at our local "Maker Fair" tabletop hobbyists provide one troop model and go through all the steps for painting with those who want to learn.
It is usually sponsored / hosted by a local shop.
That booth is always full.

GW seems to focus more on retail and "happen" to show some hobby skills when the one-man store guy has time.
The local hobby shop is a busy place with some 4-5 different types of games going on at any point and at least one person getting some models together / painted.
This is why I would differentiate between the stores.

WayneTheGame wrote:
Why do I get the feeling this thread was basically nothing more than a "rah rah GW is awesome" type of thread?

Could we add that as an Emoticon? That would be Awesome! (I'm thinking Ork with Pom-poms)

pinecone77 wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:
Why do I get the feeling this thread was basically nothing more than a "rah rah GW is awesome" type of thread?

Could we add that as an Emoticon? That would be Awesome! (I'm thinking Ork with Pom-poms)

That would be awesome, and very useful.

 TheAvengingKnee wrote:

pinecone77 wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:
Why do I get the feeling this thread was basically nothing more than a "rah rah GW is awesome" type of thread?

Could we add that as an Emoticon? That would be Awesome! (I'm thinking Ork with Pom-poms)

That would be awesome, and very useful.

I find in a GW store they pounce on you and will not let you be until they have lectured you at length about what you "need" to buy. FLGS I had before I moved had none of that malarkey and was happy to chat about new releases at length even if I didn't buy anything.

Which would you prefer?

Talys wrote:


Wow, I don't know how to say this kindly, but your town blows for gaming stores :(

Newcastle is only our 7th largest city (largest non-capital city, too. It used to be a Steel town. Used to be an industrial port, too.). State government has been trying to kill it for decades.

Local GW has been here about 20 years. Gets free "rent" in the storefront due to the economically depressed area (Newcastle had a small - 6.3 - quake in 1989 and it took 3 years for them to declare the CBD safe again. By that time, most of the businesses had moved OUT of the CBD. Local council and developers were giving property leases away just to hold business there. Then when the mill closed, more jobs left.). The store is TINY - 3.5m wide, maybe 8m long insde. It's a one man store (it used to have at least 2 people working there any day it was open - and it used to be open 7 days.)

Newcastle may blow for gaming stores, but it's home for now. If the local GW depended on me to remain open it would have closed up decades ago. I just don't buy enough GW products anyway.

The FLGS is closer, has aircon that works, has a coffee shop next door, good parking access and the only downside is it's usually full of magic players (because that is what has saved all of our indy stores. CCGs have kept most of them afloat for the last 20 years.

 chromedog wrote:

Talys wrote:


Wow, I don't know how to say this kindly, but your town blows for gaming stores :(

Newcastle is only our 7th largest city (largest non-capital city, too. It used to be a Steel town. Used to be an industrial port, too.). State government has been trying to kill it for decades.

Local GW has been here about 20 years. Gets free "rent" in the storefront due to the economically depressed area (Newcastle had a small - 6.3 - quake in 1989 and it took 3 years for them to declare the CBD safe again. By that time, most of the businesses had moved OUT of the CBD. Local council and developers were giving property leases away just to hold business there. Then when the mill closed, more jobs left.). The store is TINY - 3.5m wide, maybe 8m long insde. It's a one man store (it used to have at least 2 people working there any day it was open - and it used to be open 7 days.)

Newcastle may blow for gaming stores, but it's home for now. If the local GW depended on me to remain open it would have closed up decades ago. I just don't buy enough GW products anyway.

The FLGS is closer, has aircon that works, has a coffee shop next door, good parking access and the only downside is it's usually full of magic players (because that is what has saved all of our indy stores. CCGs have kept most of them afloat for the last 20 years.

I didn't notice you location before, looks like we were both describing the same situation.

The one thing I'd say in the CBD GW store's defence is that the bloke running it the CBD isn't the usual sort of pushy salesman one sees in the small GW stores.

At least there are plenty of gaming clubs around here. Lol.

NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
I find in a GW store they pounce on you and will not let you be until they have lectured you at length about what you "need" to buy. FLGS I had before I moved had none of that malarkey and was happy to chat about new releases at length even if I didn't buy anything.

Which would you prefer?

With my local GW store, that never happens. The salesman pretty much lets people buy what they want, unless what they're buying is a combination of stuff that is in a value box, in which case he'll say they'll save money if they just get the value box instead.

A funny thing that happened last week was a newbie GW employee being trained. He acted like a stereotypical GW employee until he realized that no, we do not need any primer with that.

Everyone has an opinion about what they like more. It's interesting to read this thread and see all the different GW/LGS that are out there.

The most I can do is share my own experiences with my local GW store. First a run down of the store. The store keeps good hours. It's open longer at the back end of the week, which is expected. Retail is at the front, gaming at the back. It's a pretty open store so you don't feel like you are in separate areas. It also has lots of parking.

For folks looking to have a game or do some work on their models; they have painting stations for 8-10 people with all the paints and gear (I do all my model work at home, so I may be off by a couple seats). They have seven 4'x8' gaming tables with lots and lots of terrain for 40k, Fantasy, and LoR. All the tables are done up nicely as is the terrain.

The retail section has numerous display cases showcasing the armies of local players. And out front there are 3 demo/display tables 4'x4'. And they always have good stock levels, with deliveries twice a week I think. And if you do order something in, you get a call the day it arrives letting you know it's ready for pick up.

The manager is a friendly guy, and has been running the place since I have been going there, so 5+ years. His staff are friendly and knowlegable. Of course they are going to try and sell you something... it's a store...duh?? But I have never found it pushy. I can't imagine going into any store and not being nudged to buy something, some may be more subtle than others, but they all want you to purchase something.

They have an active Facebook page, with lots of regular events such as tournaments, campaigns, painting comps, well you get the idea.

Overall it's a pretty good shop. I have been to smaller GW stores and know they are more retail only. And I have been to LGS that are large and have lots of stock and gaming space. And I have also been to LGS that are small, little stock and no gaming areas.

I guess I am lucky to live in a city where my local GW store can be classed as a FLGS LOL. In case you were wondering, it's on Mumford road in Halifax NS.

Here's the differences I've seen between my local GW and the 3 FLGS' I've been to. The GW has had 2 managers since I moved here. Both are very friendly, don't use hard selling techniques, run lots of fun events and encourage gaming at the store. The stock is excellent, I've only had to order 2 items from the Web order point out of over $1,000 in purchases this year (TDA rune priest and Tigurius). There are 3 gaming tables, a demo table, and 3 painting tables. The gaming tables are RoB, one of them is the new city board which was purchased by the last manager for us and painted by us regulars as a group. The scenery is excellent and the new manager has a shelf in the back room where we can keep non-GW or OOP scenery to use when we play there. The store is in a high traffic area off a major highway and less than a mile down the road from the largest shopping mall in the state.

Now to my local FLGS'. Their GW stock level is kind of sad, and it isn't because they carry so much product from other companies. If you want warmachine stuff, they only have battle boxes and maybe 1-2 Solos for each faction. Also, you're paying full retail for GW products. One store has 10% off GW on Sunday only (not much savings considering sales tax is 10% here). They have 6-8 tables but the tables are just green felt and most of the scenery looks like an elementary school art project. Then you get to deal with 37 smelly basement dwellers playing MTG, making a bunch of noise and generally being annoying. They don't run nearly as many events as the GW store. Maybe once every 2 months they will have a tournament, that's it. They're open 7 days a week compared to 5 for GW but they close around the same time as GW. The GW manager will lock the doors and stay until we finish our game, the FLGS managers just want to get out of there because you're just playing and not buying things. The lighting is mediocre, the AC may or may not work (compared to GW which is in a brand new strip mall so it stays 65 degrees even when it's 100 outside and has excellent lighting). I rarely see any table top wargames other than GW being played. The only FLGS that has any kind of WMH leagues/tournaments is 40 miles from me. The rest are all 40k/WFB all the time no matter how hard I try to get people into other systems. When I want to order a GW product they don't have in stock it takes 2-3 weeks compared to 2-3 days if I order it at the GW store.

TL: DR I have basically zero reasons to go to an FLGS other than once a month for a game of WMH with one of the 5 people in this zip code that even play it. My local GW is actually kind of awesome, but I realize this is the exception rather than the rule.

Toofast wrote:
Here's the differences I've seen between my local GW and the 3 FLGS' I've been to. The GW has had 2 managers since I moved here. Both are very friendly, don't use hard selling techniques, run lots of fun events and encourage gaming at the store. The stock is excellent, I've only had to order 2 items from the Web order point out of over $1,000 in purchases this year (TDA rune priest and Tigurius). There are 3 gaming tables, a demo table, and 3 painting tables. The gaming tables are RoB, one of them is the new city board which was purchased by the last manager for us and painted by us regulars as a group. The scenery is excellent and the new manager has a shelf in the back room where we can keep non-GW or OOP scenery to use when we play there. The store is in a high traffic area off a major highway and less than a mile down the road from the largest shopping mall in the state.

Now to my local FLGS'. Their GW stock level is kind of sad, and it isn't because they carry so much product from other companies. If you want warmachine stuff, they only have battle boxes and maybe 1-2 Solos for each faction. Also, you're paying full retail for GW products. One store has 10% off GW on Sunday only (not much savings considering sales tax is 10% here). They have 6-8 tables but the tables are just green felt and most of the scenery looks like an elementary school art project. Then you get to deal with 37 smelly basement dwellers playing MTG, making a bunch of noise and generally being annoying. They don't run nearly as many events as the GW store. Maybe once every 2 months they will have a tournament, that's it. They're open 7 days a week compared to 5 for GW but they close around the same time as GW. The GW manager will lock the doors and stay until we finish our game, the FLGS managers just want to get out of there because you're just playing and not buying things. The lighting is mediocre, the AC may or may not work (compared to GW which is in a brand new strip mall so it stays 65 degrees even when it's 100 outside and has excellent lighting). I rarely see any table top wargames other than GW being played. The only FLGS that has any kind of WMH leagues/tournaments is 40 miles from me. The rest are all 40k/WFB all the time no matter how hard I try to get people into other systems. When I want to order a GW product they don't have in stock it takes 2-3 weeks compared to 2-3 days if I order it at the GW store.

TL: DR I have basically zero reasons to go to an FLGS other than once a month for a game of WMH with one of the 5 people in this zip code that even play it. My local GW is actually kind of awesome, but I realize this is the exception rather than the rule.

See, your GW sounds great. I don't see why you're calling independent retailers "FLGS" when they act like "LGS" at best.

Many, and dare I say most, happen to be quite friendly?

 Blacksails wrote:
Many, and dare I say most, happen to be quite friendly?

But some aren't, and to call them "FLGS" sinply because they aren't GW is being unfair.

FLGS is just the shorthand for a non-GW store. Historically, there haven't been that many GW stores in the US, so the term FLGS came about a while ago and now it's just the default for all gaming stores that aren't GW.

Calling it an FLGS doesn't even always imply that it's actually a great store, it's just the term for those stores (although sometimes I see someone say LGS to differentiate). That being said, I've enjoyed a great number of the FLGS I've attended, and I think they offer so much more than a GW can ever offer simply because of the boutique limitations of said GW. It's just that simple.

Verviedi wrote:

But some aren't, and to call them "FLGS" sinply because they aren't GW is being unfair.

Look, I get that you like your GW store, but saying that the term FLGS is unfair starts verging on the ridiculous.

 Blacksails wrote:

Verviedi wrote:

But some aren't, and to call them "FLGS" sinply because they aren't GW is being unfair.

Look, I get that you like your GW store, but saying that the term FLGS is unfair starts verging on the ridiculous.

It's not as ridiculous as you might think.

By making the distinction between a GW shop and an independent shop the acronym "F(riendly) L(ocal) G(ame) S(tore)" it can make an implication that a GW store cannot be a FLGS.
It's why I try to use the term "independent" instead of FLGS.

 Blacksails wrote:

Verviedi wrote:

But some aren't, and to call them "FLGS" sinply because they aren't GW is being unfair.

Look, I get that you like your GW store, but saying that the term FLGS is unfair starts verging on the ridiculous.

Its not ridiculous to say all non GW stores are nice?

Kanluwen wrote:

It's not as ridiculous as you might think.

By making the distinction between a GW shop and an independent shop the acronym "F(riendly) L(ocal) G(ame) S(tore)" it can make an implication that a GW store cannot be a FLGS.
It's why I try to use the term "independent" instead of FLGS.

I still don't see how any less ridiculous it is someone is upset over the distinction between a GW store and FLGS. Besides, its not like there's a rule saying they can't refer to their GW store as a FLGS. If its friendly and local, and also happens to be a store that caters to gaming, then the shoe fits.

pm713 wrote:
Its not ridiculous to say all non GW stores are nice?

You're saying its ridiculous to add 'friendly' when discussing your local store?

The point being that FLGS is just common shorthand used in internet discussions. If you have a local store that isn't friendly, feel free to use LGS instead. If you have a GW store nearby, feel free to also use FLGS or LGS.

Either way I think its ridiculous to start nitpicking at common shorthand used for some time on these boards.

No I just think it's ridiculous saying every single store that isn't GW is friendly.

pm713 wrote:
No I just think it's ridiculous saying every single store that isn't GW is friendly.

Because that's totally the implication.

You figured it out.

Gold star.

Might as well propose some new short hand then; FLGWS or FGWS.

Your pick.

 Blacksails wrote:

pm713 wrote:
No I just think it's ridiculous saying every single store that isn't GW is friendly.

Because that's totally the implication.

You figured it out.

Gold star.

Might as well propose some new short hand then; FLGWS or FGWS.

Your pick.

I second this. I'll message an admin or mod and ask them to add it to the dictionary.

Verviedi wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:

pm713 wrote:
No I just think it's ridiculous saying every single store that isn't GW is friendly.

Because that's totally the implication.

You figured it out.

Gold star.

Might as well propose some new short hand then; FLGWS or FGWS.

Your pick.

I second this. I'll message an admin or mod and ask them to add it to the dictionary.

Sure, but in all fairness, there are also non-GW stores that are non-friendly too It's just that those tend to go out of business faster LOL.

I can't believe that this thread is still around.