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For a minute there I saw the topic as ork twerks under propose rule section.. Lol!

 Dakkamite wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Imagine the house keeping issues with "Lootas" when they can steal D3 weapons though. Wait did they have a lascannon and 3 flamers or did they have just hte 3 flamers or.... It would become a pain in the butt, and as far as WYSIWYG it would completely throw it off.

Been toying with clan rules that could work here. Bad Moonz and Deathskullz share a "shiny gubbins" chart. Bad Moons buy rolls on the chart at the start of the game, Deathskullz get them whenever a unit dies within 6" or if they interact with a wrecked vehicle or some such.

Would this be to single models, or the entire unit?

The whole unit. Applying something like this to single models would be a hell of paperwork

Changed walkers. Had to get rid of different squadrons. put naughts somewhere in between the superheavies and large vehicles. They've recieved a huge durability boost and nerfed stomps. How much do you think should they cost?
Also, changed Snikrot a bit

A few ideas for shiny gubbins:

Special and nob weapons gain gets hot and rending

Special and nob weapons gain sniper

Big shootas become snazzguns, Rokkit launchas become KMBs

Unit gains a special weapon

AP5 shootas

+6" range

-6" range, +1 shot/strength

Concussive/blind

The first three may be a bit hard to keep track of.

Can't comment on the Naughts as I don't understand superheavies at all, but do like the changes to Dreads/Kans (especially 35pt Kans, 50 is far too much!) except that they really, truly do need a way to be taken outside of heavy support. Also don't know if extra armour is worth it, as its not in the codex and cbf reading the brb lol

Snapshots is a great improvement for Snikrot Kommandos, prevents them just getting flamered. Highly approve!

The Shiny Gubbins table, like everything else I'm working on, is suppost to be largely good and bad at the same time rather than straight buffs or debuffs. Here's what I have in mind, though I've altered it a bit as some of the above ideas are pretty neat. The main issues there are that it should apply to any unit, not just boyz units, ie if Lootas get "Big shootas become snazzguns" its a bit of a problem

Keep in mind that no effect can stack with itself, you re-roll any effect you already have. Bad Moonz get one free upgrade, and can buy up to two more at 1pt/per model for units containing boyz (boyz, tankbustas etc), 2pt if it is meks (ie, Lootas, burnas etc), and 3pt for Nobz

1. Shiny Stuff: The boyz have squandered their wealth on useless bling. You may add or subtract one from another Shiny Gubbins roll made at the same time or after this one, but has no effect on its own.
2. Speshul Ammo: The weapon gains Rending, but Gets Hot! [that is better than my original idea]
3. Gitfindas: The unit gains +1 BS if it does not move. Units with built in Gitfindas (Flash Gitz, Warlord Trait) add 6" to their weapon range.
4. More Dakka: The unit's shooting weapons become the Heavy type, but they increase their shots fired by 1. If already heavy, they may not fire snap shots if moved.
5. 'Eavy Armour: The unit gains 'eavy armour. If the units armour save is already a 4+ or better, it adds +1 to its save but gains Slow and Purposeful. If the unit already has a 2+ armour save then re-roll this result.
6. Spiky Bits: Festooning their armour with spikes is both fashionable and ded killy. The model gains Hammer of Wrath, or if it has it already, adds +1 to the strength of its hammer of wrath attacks. Any to-hit roll in melee against a unit with Spiky Bits that rolls a 1 will cause a S2 AP- hit on the attacker.

Something like this. Could also play around with the obscure special rules like concussive etc but then I'd have to read the brb to see what they were

Edit: What about grabbing klaw, wrecking ball etc for walkers? Could be a good laugh

 Dakkamite wrote:
Also don't know if extra armour is worth it

I've changed it to become +1 to rammshakkle. It's in the list of Wargear and equipment changes.

Superheavy means it has an invincible behemoth special rule - means it only looses HP and discards any results from vehicle damage table. But the Explodes! result deals d3 HP. It can fire it's weapons at different targets, can perform d3 stomps - small blasts that on a roll of 2-5 are s6 ap4 and on a roll of a 6 simply remove the enemy from play. They move 12" and get Move through Cover, Fear and Concussive. When they're destroyed, they explode - a massive explosion with random results varying from s5 or s4 to S: D.

I feel like I've arrived late to this. Even so, i've updated your original post with my thoughts in red. If there's anything I've not included, then it's probably because either I haven't gotten around to it, or I agree with you:

 koooaei wrote:

Mob rule:

Spoiler:

May re-roll failed fear tests.

The controlling player allocates wounds himself with the following restrictions:
Breaking Heads - The wounds must be allocated to models closest to the character (but not other characters). If there are multiple characters, can allocate wounds to models closest to any of the characters
Squabble - Can't allocate wounds to characters.

Wargear, Equipment, Vehicle Equipment, Gifts

Spoiler:

Burna - straight up flamer, no secondary mellee capabilities. Costs 5 pts. Able to make one s5 ap2 unwieldy attack in mellee. Does not prevent from shooting a flamer. Costs 10 pts. I'm not sure of what the exact rule is called, but there are some models (like the helldrake) who's flamer shoots at a further range than the standard flamer. I think that it would be REALLY good to include this as an upgrade, for another 5 or 10 points each. It would give the idea that Orks really don't have control over the fire.

Da Lukky Stikk - Allows to reroll only till the first fail per turn. Counts as a bosspole too. And increases leadership by +1

Warboss Gazbag's Blitzbike adds Skilled Rider and allows a unit of Bikes to be taken as troops choice (or for Bikes to be made into a Troops choice. It does make sense, as Eldar have their jetbikes as troop choices. It does make fluffy sense IMO.

Red Paint Job - Adds +2" to all movement methods. 5 points for Vehicles.
10 points Fliers with the added bonus of +1 Jink.
15 points for any unit comprised entirely of Deffkoptas, Bikes, or Stormboys, with the added +1 Jink.

Extra Armour add +1 to ramshakkle - costs 5 pts for Trukks, Buggies, Kanz, Looted Wagons; 10 pts for Deff Dreads; 15 pts for Battlewagons and Naughts.

Ramshakkle - Returns to original rules for Trukks. Battlewagons can purchase it for 10/15 points.

HQ:

Spoiler:

Mad Dok GrotsnikComes stock with 3 Grot Orderlies (the ones who 'saved' him)I don't actually see any issues with the current Mad Doc. I wouldn't really want to change him as it gives a nice "Last Stand" feel to him. The three grots are a nice nod to the fluff though.

Big Mek ... Tellyport Blasta Costs 15 pts, Range increased to 18", Gets Hot! On the roll of a 1 or 2, the weapon instantly teleports the Big Mek and his unit into combat, as though they have charged that turn.

If a Big Mek is your Warlord, then all vehicles in your army may be upgraded to include any 1 Mek Gun from the Heavy Support list.
-- Yes, I'm being forward about this one, I think it would be brilliant to have Warbuggies, Battlewagons, Trukks and Dakkajets running around with Kustom Mega Kannons. Because why WOULDN'T an ork want to put those awesome guns on something that moves???

Painboy - character akin to a slotless mek. Boy statline, Dok's tools - costs 30 pts.

Troops:

Spoiler:

Boyz can take a Big Choppa per every 10 boyz in the squad (instead of a bigshoota or rokkit launcha). Big Choppas have AP4 and +2 strength.

Elites:

Spoiler:

Burna Boyz cost 15 ppm

Nobz cost 16 ppm 32 mm base
Waaaagh! Banner costs 10 pts
If the squad consists of at least 5 nobz, can choose one of the following:
Cybork Slashas - the whole squad can perform a Scout Move (but not outflank), gets Cybork bodies, Rending in mellee, Fearless and Bulky for 5 ppm, can't take any special wargear and equipment, can't ride a transport.
'Ard nob wrekkaz - the whole squad has 'eavy armor and big choppas for 5 ppm, can't take bikes and PK
Da Speed Freakz - the whole squad takes warbikes and gets skilled rider for 25 ppm

Tankbustas cost 16 ppm
Can take tankhammers for free
Bomb Squigs are s8 ap3, ignore cover and can work vs any target other than a flyer (that's up in the air) or swooping FMC. The Nob can be upgraded to have Da Big Whacky! for 15 points all Bomb Squigs to gain the Interceptor and Skyfire special rules. (I might be being a bit silly here)

Flash Gitz - Elite finally! Cost 24 ppm 32 mm base
Roll for AP before choosing a target. Are equipped with 'eavy armor instead of bosspoles
I'm pretty sure someone has already mentioned this. But lots more options should be available for Flash Gits, like the ability to take combi-weapons or upgrade to twin-linked. Fluff wise, they have the money to upgrade their awesome weapons, let them.

I don't know if anyone would find this useful at all but I've worked out a way, at least in my local group (this definitely wouldn't work at tournaments unless it was houseruled):

Taking an Ork Warband formation, and rather than rolling on the Ork Warlord table, simply ask your opponent if they're OK with letting you have the first trait rather than rolling for it. Then, you have the ability to Waaagh every turn after the first, and your army is Fearless. It definitely provides a leg up without being completely OP, especially against opponents like Tau and Eldar (and actually makes the army play closer to the fluff than in the rules). Your opponent also has the entire first turn to do as much damage as they can before the green tide comes rolling in (also very fluffy). It's not even modifying the rules at all. Rather, it automatically allows something that would have been left up to chance otherwise but is still possible to happen in a game under the codex rules as they are now.

In fact, if I were going to make an actual codex rules suggestion, I'd modify the Ork Warband formation so that the Warboss always takes Prophet of the Waaagh as a Warlord trait. It'd fix so much that's wrong with the Codex.

Added mek gunz and lootas. What do you think about wargear cost to lootas?
Allowed warboss and Big mek to run around with a snazzgun for 7 pt. Is the point cost fine?

Answering Sletchyfk

Mob rule:
May re-roll failed fear tests.
>> Fear is allready a sub-par forgettable special rule. Don't want to completely invalidate it. LD8 against fear and LD10 for boss squad is allready good imo.

Burna - straight up flamer, no secondary mellee capabilities. Costs 5 pts. Able to make one s5 ap2 unwieldy attack in mellee. Does not prevent from shooting a flamer. Costs 10 pts. I'm not sure of what the exact rule is called, but there are some models (like the helldrake) who's flamer shoots at a further range than the standard flamer. I think that it would be REALLY good to include this as an upgrade, for another 5 or 10 points each. It would give the idea that Orks really don't have control over the fire.
>> It's called Torrent. Yep, it might be good. We've discussed it earlier in the thread. It all depends on correct pricing. And it needs intense playtesting.

Da Lukky Stikk - And increases leadership by +1
>> Allready good enough. +1 ld would cost extra pt. Can't give it for free - allready have +1 WS and a bunch of rerolls - that's huge.

Warboss Gazbag's Blitzbike adds Skilled Rider and allows a unit of Bikes to be taken as troops choice (or for Bikes to be made into a Troops choice. It does make sense, as Eldar have their jetbikes as troop choices. It does make fluffy sense IMO.
>> No slot swap since 7-th. And it's right imo. Eldar have their jetbikes as troops cause they're annoying cheezemongers, not cause it's right

Red Paint Job - Adds +2" to all movement methods. 5 points for Vehicles.
10 points Fliers with the added bonus of +1 Jink.
15 points for any unit comprised entirely of Deffkoptas, Bikes, or Stormboys, with the added +1 Jink.
>> +2" movement is plain better than boarding plank which is more expensive. Besides, +1 cover to bikes would result in 2+ cover bikes which will simply invalidate the Blitzbike relic. And cheap 2+ cover which is not unique is a bad thing imo.

Ramshakkle - Returns to original rules for Trukks. Battlewagons can purchase it for 10/15 points.
>> Even though everyone liked the original ramshakkle cause it's fun, think we'll stick to codex one cause it's more practical, easy to resolve and it's previous incarnation would be hazardous - it was 2/3 chance to explode when the vehicle is destroyed. Nowadays, with a hullpoint system, vehicles get glanced to death most of the time. Massed s4 explosions would be very harmful for us. Heck, even if they go back to s3, it's still not something you'd like in a regular game.

Big Mek ... Tellyport Blasta Costs 15 pts, Range increased to 18", Gets Hot! On the roll of a 1 or 2, the weapon instantly teleports the Big Mek and his unit into combat, as though they have charged that turn.
>> Fun thing but it's a potential, yet random, turn one assault or assault from reserves.

If a Big Mek is your Warlord, then all vehicles in your army may be upgraded to include any 1 Mek Gun from the Heavy Support list.
-- Yes, I'm being forward about this one, I think it would be brilliant to have Warbuggies, Battlewagons, Trukks and Dakkajets running around with Kustom Mega Kannons. Because why WOULDN'T an ork want to put those awesome guns on something that moves???
>> Fluffy cool idea. Need to consider it. But needs some limitations or we'd get eldar jetbikes.

Boyz can take a Big Choppa per every 10 boyz in the squad (instead of a bigshoota or rokkit launcha). Big Choppas have AP4 and +2 strength.
>> Big choppas are allready +2s. Don't know about AP4. AP4 +2 str is a power maul. And it costs 15 pts - not 5 pts.

Nobz
Da Speed Freakz - the whole squad takes warbikes and gets skilled rider for 25 ppm
>> 2+ cover spammable bikes for no extra cost? Don't like it.

Tankbustas
Bomb Squigs are s8 ap3, ignore cover and can work vs any target other than a flyer (that's up in the air) or swooping FMC. The Nob can be upgraded to have Da Big Whacky! for 15 points all Bomb Squigs to gain the Interceptor and Skyfire special rules. (I might be being a bit silly here)
>> How'z....this supposed to work? Do they get wings or something?

Flash Gitz
I'm pretty sure someone has already mentioned this. But lots more options should be available for Flash Gits, like the ability to take combi-weapons or upgrade to twin-linked. Fluff wise, they have the money to upgrade their awesome weapons, let them.
>> Combi-snazzguns? Great idea! But what to take? Rokkits and skorchas?

Answering Koooaei

Mob rule: -- Fear is allready a sub-par forgettable special rule. Don't want to completely invalidate it. LD8 against fear and LD10 for boss squad is allready good imo. -- Agreed.

Burna - straight up flamer, no secondary mellee capabilities. Costs 5 pts. Able to make one s5 ap2 unwieldy attack in mellee. Does not prevent from shooting a flamer. Costs 10 pts. 7 points per model can be upgraded to have the Torrent special rule.... it all depends on correct pricing. And it needs intense playtesting. -- Agreed.

Da Lukky Stikk - I wasn't a huge fan of your "stops at the first fail" because it IS nice to have a powerhouse character. Some people have said he's situational, but personally I think it works well as it is. I wouldn't really want to change it.

Warboss Gazbag's Blitzbike adds Skilled Rider ... No slot swap since 7-th. And it's right imo. Eldar have their jetbikes as troops cause they're annoying cheezemongers, not cause it's right But but but... fluffiness! Realistically, I agree. Ok, no bikes as troops. But i think the Blitzbike or regular Warbike should be an option for the Weirdboy to take at least.

Red Paint Job - Adds +2" to all movement methods. 10 points for Vehicles. Tourny wise, people use Big Trukks because the boarding Planks are 2" for 5points when they charge. I feel that 15 is a VERY expensive price for an extra 2" only when you charge. Perhaps something extra then, like you're not allowed to take any walkers in your list? Or perhaps my thoughts should be kept for a formation?.

Ramshakkle - Returns to original rules for Trukks. Battlewagons can purchase it for 10/15 points.
>> Even though everyone liked the original ramshakkle cause it's fun, think we'll stick to codex one cause it's more practical, easy to resolve and it's previous incarnation would be hazardous - it was 2/3 chance to explode when the vehicle is destroyed. Nowadays, with a hullpoint system, vehicles get glanced to death most of the time. Massed s4 explosions would be very harmful for us. Heck, even if they go back to s3, it's still not something you'd like in a regular game. Okay, so what about allowing ramshackle for all transports? Rather than just trukks. Or did you say that already...?.

Big Mek ... Tellyport Blasta Costs 15 pts, Range increased to 18", Gets Hot! On the roll of a 1 or 2, the weapon instantly teleports the Big Mek and his unit into combat, as though they have charged that turn.
>> Fun thing but it's a potential, yet random, turn one assault or assault from reserves. i didn't actually think of it as a turn 1 assult. The idea that the Tellyporta Blasta only being usable on a Mega Armour seemed kinda pants to me tbh.

Big Mek: KFF extends to 6" invulnerable save EVEN WHEN the Big Mek is inside a transport.

Big Mek: Is now able to take the Burna again but becomes a power weapon in CC (same rules as in 4th ed. Why did they remove it?

If a Big Mek is your Warlord, then all vehicles in your army may be upgraded to include any 1 Mek Gun from the Heavy Support list.
-- Yes, I'm being forward about this one, I think it would be brilliant to have Warbuggies, Battlewagons, Trukks and Dakkajets running around with Kustom Mega Kannons. Because why WOULDN'T an ork want to put those awesome guns on something that moves???
>> Fluffy cool idea. Need to consider it. But needs some limitations or we'd get eldar jetbikes. i doubt that we'd get eldar jetbikes because it means that we're going to be running very expensive armour 10 buggies all over the place. Glass gannons. Eldar Jetbikes are the power they are because they also have the durability and jink.

Boyz can take a Big Choppa per every 10 boyz in the squad (instead of a bigshoota or rokkit launcha). agreed

Nobz
Da Speed Freakz - the whole squad takes warbikes and gets skilled rider for 30ppm? Remember the thing that kept these guys alive in older codexes were their invulnerable save. Did we return that somewhere? That would be nice.

Tankbustas
Bomb Squigs are s8 ap3, ignore cover and can work vs any target other than a flyer (that's up in the air) or swooping FMC. The Nob can be upgraded to have Da Big Whacky! for 15 points all Bomb Squigs to gain the Interceptor and Skyfire special rules. (I might be being a bit silly here)
>> How'z....this supposed to work? Do they get wings or something?
Think: Massive golf club!

Flash Gitz
I'm pretty sure someone has already mentioned this. But lots more options should be available for Flash Gits, like the ability to take combi-weapons or upgrade to twin-linked. Fluff wise, they have the money to upgrade their awesome weapons, let them.
>> Combi-snazzguns? Great idea! But what to take? Rokkits and skorchas?

Really enjoying this thread
Some really nice additions. In general what I feel the ork codex lacked was imagination and customisation. There orks for crying out loud, yet they have such limited options. Why cant a warboss take stuff like a rokkit pack? or a snazzgun? But you've hit some really good points here

I think giving more vehicles ramshackle is a no-brainer, its a useful rule and in general what ork vehicle isn't a scrap pile? at 6+ its also not very likely, so the points upgrade for 5+ is a nice addition.

Flashgitz do need the armour and the ability to upgrade is so befitting to them.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
things i'd be interested in seeing;

Wargear options opening up for all HQs in terms of mobility; bikes, rokkit packs available for all. I mean every other codex has jump sorcerors, jump lords, bike sorcs, bike lords.

How about a thing called 'Da workshop';
So its basically a 'build a tank' thing, with modular costing and additions.
Like;
Adding transport capacity, adding either legs or trakks, adding in armour values, adding in weapons.

Obviously it would have to be costed right and limitations in (or just extreme costings - like if you wanted 10+ weapons on it then it gains a rule where its automatically an extra 100 pts, just to prevent stacking and overkill). I think it would require some thought, but easily do-able, initially I thought having increasing armour costs (so AV14 isn't just AV10 + (1AV*4) it would be more expensive. But then I thought actually you'd like to be able to take some cheap AV. Like how the gunwagon is. So maybe the ability to give up stuff can reduce overall cost. (like giving up weapons allows +1AV for free).

IMO, orks have the ability to convert any tank in the game, let alone models outside the game, however our vehicles lack any sort of imagination. They have really bland weapon options, really bland ideas; (they are basically either a trukk, or a wagon). With this you could actually create some really cool things, like you could build a vehicle specifically for your busta's. It could have limited capacity at 5 models, but 5 firing points, no open-top, so no assault, but then also AV13. Or you could make something designed for assault units. Its a skimmer, OT, AV10, but has stacked something like ramshackle at 4+. Basically im thinking how looted wagons should have been.

Kind of expanding on something I wrote upthread as an actual change to the codex: Da Finkin' Kap could have two modes - either let you take a Trait and roll another on the Strat. traits table, like it is now, or simply let you pick the trait you want to use. No Warlord trait in the game is so powerful that it can break the Orks, and they're all possible within the confines of a regular game anyway.

Doesn't a Necron dude already have that too? Can't he pick a trait a turn from the necron traits and all traits in the BRB?

But yeh would be cool, there aren't; like you said, any traits which could potentially break orks

Guaranteed infiltration or -1 to enemy reserves are quite powerful.

 koooaei wrote:
Guaranteed infiltration or -1 to enemy reserves are quite powerful.

Definitely powerful, but no more so than the new Eldar dex - a lot less, really - and still not enough to make Orks OP. Competitive when synergized with different formations but not anywhere near OP. Using it with the Warband formation takes a LOT of the sting out of both Mob Rule and not getting the new decurion formations. An opponent can still kill the Warboss and negate the effects of it anyway.

Im bringing my own Ork Decurion formation, its going to be 1 HQ choice and 12 units of whatever, in my case that will be 12 units of Mek Gunz, and im using the new Codex that the orks got where KMKs are Large blast, ordinance with S9 AP2 and a special piece of wargear that says they don't scatter.

Thats about on par with Eldar, so lets make it happen.

A fun thing to do with an Eldar player is to actually suggest playing with any of these rule adjustments (in my case it was letting me choose a Warlord Trait rather than rolling for it randomly) and them watch them scream about how it's "unfair". Then you get to legitimately taunt them for hiding behind an OP insta-win codex.

Kooai, sure they took away things becoming troops or even gaining opsec but it wouldn't be unreasonable within 7th to say gazbags and or zadsnark could allow a mob or all mobs of boys to buy -wargear- 12pts-Warbike... Right?

Want to make the dex more reasonable. Do not want to eldarify it.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Im bringing my own Ork Decurion formation, its going to be 1 HQ choice and 12 units of whatever, in my case that will be 12 units of Mek Gunz, and im using the new Codex that the orks got where KMKs are Large blast, ordinance with S9 AP2 and a special piece of wargear that says they don't scatter.

Thats about on par with Eldar, so lets make it happen.

this made me laugh
Made me realise how we are all here suggesting things that were all like;
"I hope this wouldn't be too powerful...'insert blah'... Could be fun and flavourful!"
Yet even when you compare anything we come up with against the current elder dex it still looks sub-par on so many levels

I don't think that there's any use comparing stuff to eldar. When i look at their rules i start suspecting this:

Koooai, after seeing that gw office pic you posted I realize their horrible rules writing is really good for their breed. I would expect more from a German, but a Goldie? Not so much.

And i am just showing you how Sketchy's idea could work. And technically we can do it right now with Zadsnark till forge world updates, so it's not even a stretch. Just no one has


Automatically Appended Next Post:
4050$ to spend on orc bikes to run 90 of them in a list.

My general changes would be to open up more options in general for a lot of our mechanical units, and several of our actual infantry. Orks are always described as having so many wonky contraptions so they're tough to predict. Yet, we really have very, very STATIC load outs throughout the entire book.

I'd like Walkers to all be able to squadron, first of all. Why wouldn't they? Of all the races, Orks are the most likely to bring loads of war engines. Why? Because they can slap them together in so little time, and there are PLENTY of willing recruits to get fitted into them, unlike most other factions who require weird rituals and rare materials (Eldar) or require select dead or near dead soldiers to fit into them (Marines).

Kanz fit great as a 1-6 pack as they are now, but could use a small price drop to compensate for their lack of staying power. Cowardly Grots itself never bothered me, I've yet to fail it (Though I run Walker heavy, which includes Dreads being nearby anyway). Kanz should also be able to grab Gitfindas, to help boost them up a little more too.

Deff Dreads fit well at a 1-3 selection as well. They can be costly, so even gaining a wider access to them won't be 'broken', since they 1.) suffer from poor vehicle rules to begin with 2.) unless your walker theming anyway, you're unlikely to have loads to field to begin with 3.) Most run them as CC monsters, so they aren't insanely difficult to counter, even in larger numbers.

'Naughts should be able to run in 1-2 packs. Seems fitting, considering their fluff. Gork and Mork should run together and destroy whatever they can get their Klaws on.

What else would I change for Walkers in particular?

Ramshackle - A psudo invul would be really nice for them. I'm surprised it isn't a book wide rule for Ork vehicles to begin with. I like the idea of Extra Armor buffing the Ramshackle roll, which could give all vehicles a psudo 5+ invul. Might be a little much, but it sure is Orky, considering how easily they pop, but just how weird Ork tech can be. It shouldn't work, and shouldn't survive...yet somehow, through sheer Orkitude, it just might do both.

Mek Gun loadouts - I believe this was covered, but walkers at the least should be able to pack some real weapons. Yes, Rokkits are nice, but they lack the whollop needed to get the job done without mass fire. In addition to normal gun load outs for Walkers, they should be able to choose from:

Kustom Mega Kannon, Bubble Chucka, Lifta Droppas.

KMK - Same as book profile now

Bubble Chucka - These should change. The fluff states they create a physical bubble or dome, either trapping units inside, or not allowing things to pass (Without having to fight through the dome first). The gun itself should reflect that. The weapon should either be a blast or large blast (perhaps for a tax, you can change the blast size). Any unit that gets caught under the marker ends up trapped in the bubble. They must make some kind of test to try to break out of it. If they can't, they are trapped within it for a turn, and cannot shoot or be shot. If they are the target of a charge, then the charging unit must make a test, and if they succeed, they can shatter the dome and attack the guys within. Otherwise, the charge fails.

Second part is if the blast scatters off doesn't hit any targets, the blast marker remains in place until the beginning of the Ork players next turn. The marker becomes impassable terrain but does not block line of sight. Any unit trying to shoot/move/charge through it must pass the required test to shoot the unit on the other side of it or move through the bubble.

Lifta Droppa - Should work I think similar to the new Knight's toss glove thing. Have a short range to compensate, maybe 12'' range? If you hit with the shooting attack, you may make an immediate shooting attack against another enemy unit within 12", with various profiles depending on the type of vehicle you are throwing (Or perhaps based on side armor or something?)

How many of the above could be taken per squad would be interesting and help limit shinanigans, especially with how good the Chucka could actually be. Again, most of this is balanced out by crap ballistic skills too. Maybe only Dreads or Naughts can take the above mentioned weapons? Kanz just keep their usual gear, as they are the lighter duty Walkers.

I'm also a firm believer in 'Build a Naught', just as I am 'Build a Stompa'. I think these options should have been a thing to begin with. Honestly, I'd be willing to buy a suppliment that opened up these options.

You pay a flat rate for the chassis. For both Stompa and Naughts, they could simply be 10/10/10 flat with typical Ork Walker BS and WS for X points. You can then tack on points to increase armor faces (perhaps making a cap for each face for each, so Naughts can't be quite as durable as a Stompa). You can then add on up to X weapons, the weapon list being a hodge podge of all the Walker weaponry and perhaps even unique guns/melee weapons for just these two. You could actually make a CC monster Naught or Stompa, or just load them with Dakka, and even forgo a CC weapon.



Phew...

While I know that is pretty much all wish listing, It's my deep desire for Ork walkers to get a boon (Walkers in general, actually). They are hands down my favorite units in any army. I love the whole idea of em, even if logically, they'd be a bit insufferable to actually implement in a real setting. Which is why 40k is so damn great.

I'd like to see a heavy ranged option for the MANz. Shoulder mounted like the deffgun perhaps and basically the Supa Shoota in stats.

Grots would be nice if they could be upgraded to have 2 grotzookas in the unit.

I too want to see Storm Nobz and the Rockit Pack should be an option in their upgrades. These are Nobz, if any Boyz unit has it then they will also have them as an option and even made available to them first if they chose to use em.

A Kustom Tellyporta Pack is overdue. An upgrade for a Big Mek that allows him and his unit to leave and deep strike in an instant. Maybe as an Orkimedes relic for starters since he's the Ork behind the tellyporta tek.

Deffkoptas can use a character upgrade

The Flash Gitz are the ones who should have the Kustom Shootas with various purchaseable tweaks.

Lootas basic package of deffguns is also fine, they are all just cobbled up flimflam but I too feel the name Loota is lost and they should be able to take upgrades found in various other races hvy squad options. I've recall something like this the last time I've ever read an Ork Codex which was 3e.

If tourneys don't allow Super Heavies then I would be against moving Nauts to that class. They oughta be changed to assault vehicles for sure and a firepoint in front or two. If it remains not a super heavy then those little extra rockit launchas and big shootas aren't so great if everything shoots at the same target. I'd remove them and give them the option to put a big mek gun of their choosing on top beside the pilot, pretty much the same idea that the BWs have.

The Bomma needs more ammo or more dakka, what if they had twin linked rockit launchas?

I always feel every Ork Transport vehicle should have access to a 50pt KFF option (trukks, BWs, Nauts and yeah Stompa).

With that in mind then I'd not move Cybork back to invulnerable, I'd keep it as the current FnP but I'd make it better then a t-shirt save. 5+ maybe 4+.

Some people don't give the Weirdboy as much credit as he is due. Upgraded to Psyker level 2 and on his turn he builds charges as a Psyker level 3 is pretty cool. Being the only psykic unit we got I think it would be even cooler if they can pay for even a higher level.

Warboss should be an MC. I blame this view on video games. Cuz holy they are big and strong, using 2 hnd Choppas, Hammers and 2 hnd Shootas in one hand each like a normal boy uses a slugga and choppa. Kap'n Bluddflagg comes to mind, he's insanely huge and ripped.
If it's too much, maybe just Ghazzy being an MC to represent that some warbosses like him and The Beast reach these levels of size. He's monstrously expensive too so...

All vehicles should be using grots as the gunners. It's obvious they use them better and don't want to melee, The Orks know this, put em on the guns.

Please make an Ork fortification stat sheet that is seperate from the ADF so that we can make have our own wall that will have area for grots to be placed and still see.

Grots should allow Orks to get pass various terrain obstacles like barbed wire, mines, high ledges/walls etc... but take hits in the process as the Orks use them in a very crude and direct fashion.

We already have Lobbas, Bubble Chuckas need to be reworked. Perhaps something more kunnin then brutal. Hvy1 Barrage Blind Pinning. I big shimmering bubbly splat. Probably don't even need to give it wounding capability, not sure.

I'm a bit out of ideas.

^I had the same idea for Bubble Chucka, no damage, but has trapping or field altering effects.

I'd love for Gretchen to get more use as well. It feels heavily wasted potential. Especially that BS 3. Yeah, we get to use it on Kanz, but they aren't the best Dakka platforms. We use em mostly for Mek Gunz, but...I'd LOVE for Grots to be more than JUST a screen.

I still want Grot snipers of some kind. Allowing you to take small, Grot Sniper squads to help suppress a unit da boyz intend to rush would be hilarious and really helpful.

Allowing Grotzookas would be cool too, as you mentioned. Maybe the Grots could take 2 Special weapons per squad. Though I feel 2 Sniper shots only might be a tad wasted, but who knows! I'd still run Sniper Grots every game.

Oh, so many cool ideas! Could you, if possible, write a pointcost layout for this stuff?

The problem with customization is that it's very hard to achieve correct pricing. To be honest, every time there are many customization options, something's always left over. Just take a look at any transport - be it a truck or a rhino. They both have lots of shiny parts yet only 1-2 things are constantly used and other 10 are avoided. Cause it's not easy to find correct pricing for customizable upgrades. It all requires playtesting. I'm planning to run a few test games with walkers, gits, kommandoes and truckboyz with 'eadwompa boss and tellyporta blasta megamek. Unfortunately, i don't own any walkers or gits, so will have to do it in vassal - the best way for quick playtesting imo.

Just need to find an opponent willing to play against modified rules, eh.

I must admit I'm somewhat frustrated with the way ork boyz are slaughtered on the battlefield. Yes, it's supposed to be a horde army. But at the same time:

”Orkoid physique itself is so robust that it can withstand tremendous punishment. They feel surprisingly little pain, even from the most grievous of wounds, enabling them to fight on whilst horrifically injured and even for a short while after being technically dead.” (Codex, chapter on The Barbarous Hordes)

So ... judging by this they shouldn't go down by the dozen to simple Bolt Pistols (AP 5). I think this could simply be handled by changing the Sv 6+ to a Feel No Pain 6+. This would be a quite a buff, admittedly.

The super durability is represented by toughness 4. Remember that SM are also super-durable fluffwise

BTW, 6+ fnp was a widespread rumor about the 7-th dex. Many people would like to see it coming to life. But i'm not sure if i'm willing to add this army-wide buff for free yet. It would also require painboyz, painbosses and mad dok's repricing.

I think that it might be a bit ott. Many armies allready have problems dealing with ork hordes. And now we get even more durable.

I play footslogging orkses myself. Have around 100 bodies on board every game (mostly play around 1500 pts). Yep, 6+++ is appealing but i don't want to overbuff my own playstyle. I feel that other stuff like walkers needs more love while footslogging horde is doing pretty fine as is. It'd just be a bit more frustrating for regular enemies and not noticeable for power armies.

Going of melevolences post; I definitely think the design/build a naught or tank is an option. Yes it would take time to get right, but not impossible.

As for something else with walkers, I was thinking something along the lines of the hellbrute table. but more orky?

So on a glancing hit something like;
1-2 = The shot blasts of a piece of armour, but at the same time lodges the engine into all steam ahead! - front AV drops by 1, but the walker can now move 12", but must snap shoot all weapons, can leave a squadron via this rule.

2-4 = The shot blasts off a armour plate.. only to reveal.... more armour! glancing hit is ignored. no HP removal.

5-6 = Overdrive! the energy from the shot is absorbed by the ork engine of war, supercharging its weapon systems. All weapons gain Gets hot! but also become AP2. (or maybe inc Str, or maybe a static +1Str, -1AP)

Overall I really like ork randomness, but not randomness that is detrimental in an annoying fashion. Like snazzgun AP, rolling after target selection is so annoying :/ I like randomness that can then be utilised! So stuff that occurs at the start of the turn and may alter your strategy, not randomness that occurs after you've decided on your plan and then just ruins it.