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I'm curious to know, did anyone want a new edition? And if yes, why?

We have 31 teams already, now GW is piling on 2 more. Who wants more teams? How many teams is enough?

Sure, this new ork team looks like slower lizardmen, but the Black Orks actually are harder to neutralize by moving a lineman next to them. They also have skills from the start, on the opposite to saurus, and the troll can throw goblins to the opposite of lizardmen.

I think you can do some tricks with them, and I won't say they're worse right now.

Also, the goblins have thick skull.

Baxx wrote:
I'm curious to know, did anyone want a new edition? And if yes, why?

We have 31 teams already, now GW is piling on 2 more. Who wants more teams? How many teams is enough?

There are never enough teams. What's the difference between a supported game and one that is left to fans is that the supported game is...supported. As long as GW puts new stuff, it just means the game keeps being supported.

As for who wants new rules...I'd say new players.

Grumpy veterans will always see change as a bad thing, after all. They are not the target of a new edition.

Sarouan wrote:
Sure, this new ork team looks like slower lizardmen, but the Black Orks actually are harder to neutralize by moving a lineman next to them. They also have skills from the start, on the opposite to saurus, and the troll can throw goblins to the opposite of lizardmen.

I think you can do some tricks with them, and I won't say they're worse right now.

Also, the goblins have thick skull.

Baxx wrote:
I'm curious to know, did anyone want a new edition? And if yes, why?

We have 31 teams already, now GW is piling on 2 more. Who wants more teams? How many teams is enough?

There are never enough teams. What's the difference between a supported game and one that is left to fans is that the supported game is...supported. As long as GW puts new stuff, it just means the game keeps being supported.

As for who wants new rules...I'd say new players.

Grumpy veterans will always see change as a bad thing, after all. They are not the target of a new edition.

Before quickly labeling dissenters as "grumpy veterans," perhaps those that are so eager to accept this new edition should consider that many of these "grumpy veterans" have been around the block a few times with GW's games and business model and have learned to be wary of the promises of a "better" "perfected" new ruleset. Change for the sake of change is questionable at best, but change primarily for the purpose of profiting is often worse.

I read in another post that one of the reasons GW's games will never achieve "classic" status is because GW continuously releases new editions of its rulesets to sell new versions and models instead of truly attempting to optimize/improve one ruleset for each game. I tend to agree with that, and IMO Blood Bowl was one of GW's games that really approached "classic" status, primarily due to GW abandoning it for many years and the community optimizing the rules and team rosters into a set that has been recognized worldwide as the standard and utilized successfully from home games to local clubs to grand tournaments. Call me a leary, skeptical, or grumpy veteran, but I've been around long enough to realize that this new edition could likely lead to a splintering of the BB fanbase and further disillusionment of GW's business practices by BB fans.

Bottom line: Look, I get it, GW is a company focused on making money and this is how their business model operates. That doesn't mean that I am willing to fork over my money to them for "improved" rulesets that often just tinker a few rules for the sake of change and increased sales. Personally, I was very happy with the state BB was in and looked forward to new models of teams that had not yet been released for BB2016 - I was happy with the ruleset and had no desire for an update. Unfortunately to some, including me, GW's reset of the game will cause me to think twice about purchasing products for this new version for fear they will be made obsolete in a few years time, as well as participating in any "official" "supported" tournaments in the future as I am skeptical of GW's ability to balance and truly improve their games.

Sarouan wrote:

There are never enough teams. What's the difference between a supported game and one that is left to fans is that the supported game is...supported. As long as GW puts new stuff, it just means the game keeps being supported.

As for who wants new rules...I'd say new players.

Grumpy veterans will always see change as a bad thing, after all. They are not the target of a new edition.

We got 33 teams. Maybe 10 more teams would be good? 20 more teams? 100 more teams? Same with special play cards. We got almost 200. Maybe 100 extra would make it better? 1000 cards? We got more than 100 star players. How many is enough? Would 200 star players be better?

Why would new players want BB2020 instead of BB2016? They got no reference point.

I like the look of the new orcs, more so than the last version (which I thought were ok). Goblins look unimpressive but I was never a big goblin user anyway, though I did really like the metal goblins from the BB2 era.

I wasn’t exactly banging on GW’s door demanding a new edition but having read through the leaks so far I’m liking what I see. More variety in Human teams (regular humans at that, with the addition of Halflings) and a very interesting variant in the Noble team which would seem to play more like a Rugby team than a Gridiron team which is appropriate given they’re nobles and attendant minor toffs.
Equally the Blorc team and its gobbos that can take a beating are going to make for an interesting challenge.

Mind you a lot of this could have been done without an edition change except for the fifth stat. But as I examine it more and see what they’re doing with it, the more I like it. I’m in.

If the rumors I have read are true, some of the previously-recognized teams will be cut and the book will not include Amazons as one example. If such is the case, and GW plans on adding these teams later as "supplements" (Almanacs, Death Zones, etc.), then they will definitely not get my support and money for this new edition. They need to go all-in with a complete rulebook this time and not attempt to drip-feed extra teams and rules as their sculpting department takes the needed time to create new models. Give us the complete teams and rules, even if there are no new official GW models yet.

Edit: Some fair reviews/reactions of the leaks to date: https://wyrdstonesandtacklezones.com/2020/08/05/blood-bowl-second-season-reactions/

 Gnarlly wrote:
If the rumors I have read are true, some of the previously-recognized teams will be cut and the book will not include Amazons as one example. If such is the case, and GW plans on adding these teams later as "supplements" (Almanacs, Death Zones, etc.), then they will definitely not get my support and money for this new edition. They need to go all-in with a complete rulebook this time and not attempt to drip-feed extra teams and rules as their sculpting department takes the needed time to create new models. Give us the complete teams and rules, even if there are no new official GW models yet.

Edit: Some fair reviews/reactions of the leaks to date: https://wyrdstonesandtacklezones.com/2020/08/05/blood-bowl-second-season-reactions/

I wouldn't be surprised if the new rulebook includes all the teams that have had Spikes/miniature releases and then maybe a page 'team of legends' for those teams that haven't gone through an update. It'd probably work for the page count available, or GW simply puts a pdf online for those teams. It's fairly certain some of those teams will be amongst the first releases for 2020, considering they don't have miniatures. I can't see them dropping High Elves for example.

So Brawler on the Black Orcs allows you to reroll ONE both down result on your block dice. That and grab on all of them makes them pretty nasty. You can pull a guy behind your lines and let the gobbos step on them.

Baxx wrote:

Why would new players want BB2020 instead of BB2016? They got no reference point.

Exactly ! Which is why when the BB2020 will be available, they will have no reason to be grumpy about the previous editions, since the 2016 edition won't be the one being sold anymore.

That's what's great about being a new player. You take the rules as they are, not as you wished they would be in comparison to previous older rules that you got so used to it they became natural, be it good or bad.

I know Blood Bowl for quite a while as well, I know the rules by heart and indeed, a new edition means to me I will learn new rules. But I won't dismiss GW's choices before reading the full new rules in question. So far, what I have seen makes sense - and just so you know, by reading the leaks, zombies and mummies can actually still do Pass actions, they'll just fumble automatically, that's all. In previous editions, they never throwed the ball during games, anyway. Doesn't mean they can't still pick up the ball and make hands off if needed.

I'm willing to bet the new Black Orc team gets the cheaper bribes like Goblins, as we can see the Halfling Master Chef refers to the Halfling Thimble Cup special rule rather than 'Halfling Teams'.

Underworld might get the same.

I wonder if Star Players will be hired out via special rule attachments as well, Ie; Griff Oberwald can be hired by teams with the Old World Classic special rule, rather than listing teams.

The changes for the Humans are pretty crazy - throwing on a 2+, the ability to go for a OTTD,

Heck, Humans can start with:



I'm pretty excited for how this is going to change things up - I think I'm going to dig up my Humans and get back to painting them...

Don’t misunderstand me; I like the look of both of these new teams (and human nobility will give me a way to use the Greebo Florentine Kinghts I bought a few years ago to use as Brettonians), but I still would have preferred that they released the remaining existing teams first and I absolutely disagree with the rule changes that will leave older teams in limbo (I.e. not all of the rule changes.)

 Gnarlly wrote:
If the rumors I have read are true, some of the previously-recognized teams will be cut and the book will not include Amazons as one example. If such is the case, and GW plans on adding these teams later as "supplements" (Almanacs, Death Zones, etc.), then they will definitely not get my support and money for this new edition. They need to go all-in with a complete rulebook this time and not attempt to drip-feed extra teams and rules as their sculpting department takes the needed time to create new models. Give us the complete teams and rules, even if there are no new official GW models yet.

Edit: Some fair reviews/reactions of the leaks to date: https://wyrdstonesandtacklezones.com/2020/08/05/blood-bowl-second-season-reactions/

When they keep piling on teams, it's easy to assume they will skip some also. They never cared much for Amazon in BB2016. It was mentioned for some of the (in)famous coaching staff (and a few 're-release' of existing star players), but that's about it. So they may condemn more teams to join Slann, being in a gray area, endorsed and accepted by the players, but completely ignored by GW. Blood Bowl should be fairly 'easy' to complete, but GW insists on adding new teams instead. Looks like we as players are going to add a lot of PA stats for those teams and star players GW can't bother to include.

Adding PA stat gives GW an excellent opportunity to restart the drip-feed they've done since 2016. Except back then, we already had all the teams and star players, so the only real content was the new bonus stuff (with the rare exceptions of some new positionals here and there, some minor skills and a few tweaks in points). This time, they can do their own schedule, and we would have to sit and wait to get the proper stats. I'm expecting a lot of the stuff we already got to be re-released in many books, like (in)famous coaching staff, star players etc.

they may also feel that the teams left to do are not going to sell well enough to keep the game as a going concern,

so you have the choice of release of a few of the remaining teams, but profitability dropping below GWs keep it going threshold

or reboot and keeping the game supported

(less of an issue with BB than most as it did run on fine without being a supported game)

Sarouan wrote:

Baxx wrote:

Why would new players want BB2020 instead of BB2016? They got no reference point.

Exactly ! Which is why when the BB2020 will be available, they will have no reason to be grumpy about the previous editions, since the 2016 edition won't be the one being sold anymore.

That's what's great about being a new player. You take the rules as they are, not as you wished they would be in comparison to previous older rules that you got so used to it they became natural, be it good or bad.

I know Blood Bowl for quite a while as well, I know the rules by heart and indeed, a new edition means to me I will learn new rules. But I won't dismiss GW's choices before reading the full new rules in question. So far, what I have seen makes sense - and just so you know, by reading the leaks, zombies and mummies can actually still do Pass actions, they'll just fumble automatically, that's all. In previous editions, they never throwed the ball during games, anyway. Doesn't mean they can't still pick up the ball and make hands off if needed.

As many have said, the rules changes are not that bad. I played BB before 2016, and was mostly happy with all the new stuff the past 4 years. I liked the new skills, new positionals, even the skaven dagger didn't bother me! I jumped on board completely. But now? Much less enthusiasm, because most if not all the stuff I collected (rules and bonus content) are most likely garbage. I'd like a more stable game, not getting a new edition every 4 years!

Baxx wrote:

I'd like a more stable game, not getting a new edition every 4 years!

But Blood Bowl is stable. The new rules aren't a complete overhaul. And if you think they're garbage without even reading them all, that just means your point of view is already done without getting the facts right.

I understand you're angry GW releases a new edition, but that's what it means to be supported by GW. If you want to go back to the silence before 2016, sure I guess. But the way to get new players is being supported by GW...and there is nothing wrong by putting new rules to change the game a bit. It's getting boring to always use the same tactics ad nauseam, in the end.

I hoped 'supported by GW' would be what we had 2016-2020. How are Grak & Crumbleberry supposed to work without PA stat? What's the PA of my Savage Orc or Amazon team? How will cards work granting a player Pass Block or any other skill that is removed? I guess these types of things can be tweaked, assumed and agreed upon. Curious to see if the spectacular amount of special play cards releases are reset too.

It will be fresh to change the core rules a little, I can agree with that. But we did have a ton of new bonus content, so no shortage in trying new stuff in BB2016. Although very bloaty, not affecting the core rules, there are more than enough to explore: 4 kick-off tables, 17 pitch/weather tables, 6 referees, 18 special balls, 39 different types of inducements (including 9 wizards & 10 infamous coaching staff), 6 sponsorship deals, 24 stadiums, 35 match events, 3 cups, 198 special play cards, 108 star players and 31 (soon to be 33) teams.

I have a horrible feeling that Norse and Amazon teams aren’t trademarkable enough for modern GW and will be left to slowly fade into the night.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sarouan wrote:

Baxx wrote:

I'd like a more stable game, not getting a new edition every 4 years!

But Blood Bowl is stable. The new rules aren't a complete overhaul. And if you think they're garbage without even reading them all, that just means your point of view is already done without getting the facts right.

I understand you're angry GW releases a new edition, but that's what it means to be supported by GW. If you want to go back to the silence before 2016, sure I guess. But the way to get new players is being supported by GW...and there is nothing wrong by putting new rules to change the game a bit. It's getting boring to always use the same tactics ad nauseam, in the end.

It won’t be stable when we have to house rule new stats and core rules into existing teams that GW chose not to update, which then means that anytime you play with someone new there’ll be disagreements over what the rules should be (and a high likelihood that you won’t be able to play that favourite team you’ve had for two decades.)

Not only old favourite teams, I got a brand new slave giant star player this year:

Wonder if he will survive more than a few months?

Necro team (from fb again)

Also Black Orc Team, and a spread of Human and Imperial Nobility teams.

If this isn't GW leaking these images in some way, then they need to hire whoever is the leaker for their marketing department. Rather than just dump a load of images, they've clearly got images of the whole book and are slowly leaking them out.

Is it my imagination or are there females in the Empire Noble team?

 porkuslime wrote:
Is it my imagination or are there females in the Empire Noble team?

It's not your imagination, two of the models with two feathers on 'em are female

WarCom Orc article is up

Way better than posy Imperial team.

Although it would be better if they wear gauntlet instead of fingerless glove.

Those orcs are absolutely fantastic, and those gobbos might actually be even better. Very Rackham'esque.

I'll need so many of those kits...

Blorcs are effing marvellous.

100% Orcy, but 100% serious looking. And everyone loves a Gobbo.

Everyone. Doc has spoken.

So Varag Ghoul Chewer got a new model, it seems.

The Black Orcs look excellent, and Varag makes the FW one look embarrassing, to be frank.