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Out of the 3 Eldar Jetbike close combat units (from non-FW codices), which one is overall the best. Please compare and discuss the following:

Let's assume all 3 are around the same points, roughly 120-130pts. That gives you:
6 Reavers w/ 2 Cluster Caltrops
4 Shining Spear including Exarch w/ Star lance
2 Skyweavers w/ Zephyrglaives.

Let's also assume you are joining an Autarch Skyrunner w/ Laser lance & Banshee mask.

--1)-Durabilty:
Both Spears and Reavers have skilled rider, but the Skyweavers have 5++ (4++ for 1 turn)
Spears have the best Armour save, but that won't matter against the units you want to charge, which may have AP3/2 weapons
Reavers may get +1T from drugs and can get FNP, otherwise they are the squishiest, but cheapest.

---2)-Damage Output:
I really think Spears and Skyweavers are even hear. Both have AP2 on the charge, though with the Spear it is just the Exarch. The spears have higher str, but the Skyweavers have more attacks at AP2
The Skyweavers also have the most shooting potential, but that's not what I wish to discuss.
The Reavers have the highest "potential" damage output, assuming you get the max HoW attack and all of them Rend, but unfortunately their average seems the lowest of the 3.

---3)-Benefit from (and to) the Autarch:
Obviously the Reavers win here. Their save is the lowest, and having a Banshee mask to deny overwatch is crucial. The Autarch also adds more damage potential to the unit allowing them to hit a wider variety of targets. As Power from Pain takes a few turns to kit in, the Reavers may be best in Reserve, which the Autarch helps with greatly.
Spears are the least appealing choice for 2 reasons. A) There weapons are the same, meaning you're just getting more attacks without versatility and B) NO Hit & Run - That is the biggest downside to Spears
Skyweavers are in the middle here as they give H & R like the Reavers AND are a bit squishy, but they don't provide the bodies to protect the Autarch.

---4)- "Fieldability"
By which I mean the ways in which to can bring these units in a Battle-Forged army.
Spears are the easiest: If you are taking an Autarch, you probably have a CAD, take the Spears in a Fast Attack. Alternatively, you can take an Aspect Host, but this requires 2 other units (which might not be a issue for you)
Reavers - Allie Detahcment, or the new DE Start Collecting formation. Niether require too hefty an investment and you can easily make the "tax" units work in an Eldar list.
Skyweavers - As Harlequins have no HQ, you can only do formations, none of which are cheap or easy to field. The 2x Skyweaver, 1 Voidweaver is probably the best, but that's a lot of points.

--

Skyweavers if you're adding the autarch.

For one thing, the skyweavers actually benefit more vs the overwatch because they've got 30 points/wound (Compared to far less with the reavers) and the reavers get a 3+ save usually vs overwatch while the skyweavers can only get a 4+. Additionally, the autarch brings a 3+ save to the party that can be useful for tanking a couple wounds.

Remember you can jink vs overwatch shooting, as it is a shooting attack. It "feels" weird but it's always been legal, and it's been clarified as definitely legal in the FAQ.

Reavers are arguably nicer on their own than the starweavers, but if both have an autarch the weavers are far better.

Skyweavers are 4++ for shooting attacks only.
This is relevant durability wise in regards to their cc ability when it comes to fighting other units with invul saves. If they live you only have a 4+armor/5+invul on the skyweavers

Harlequin Shadowseers with Phantasmancy have access to adding stealth and shrouded to the skyweavers giving them
3+cover in cover
4+cover out in the open
2+cover if they jink (Faolchus Blade- rerollable)

Also skyweavers in a Cegorach's Revenge Formation recieve rerollable 1's on their failed invul saves.

Cegorach's Revenge- 1065pt formation
Reroll fail invuls of 1
Faolchus Blade- 275pts
Reroll fail cover saves after jinking

Why not throw corsairs into the mix? Three felarch cloud dancers with venom blades are 120 pts (or 135 if you give them combat drugs), give a prince with cloud dancer and void sabre (or another venom b lade) for 110-100 points with Reaper of the Outer Dark (Gives prince rampage and any unit may take rage for free). This gives the felarchs 5 attacks each on the charge, the prince gets 5 attacks (3 base +1 2cc, +1 charge) and d3 from rampage. This will give the squad 20+d3 attacks on the charge at I5, with the prince at i6. The squad is ws 5, which the prince at ws6.

Carnith wrote:
Why not throw corsairs into the mix? Three felarch cloud dancers with venom blades are 120 pts (or 135 if you give them combat drugs), give a prince with cloud dancer and void sabre (or another venom b lade) for 110-100 points with Reaper of the Outer Dark (Gives prince rampage and any unit may take rage for free). This gives the felarchs 5 attacks each on the charge, the prince gets 5 attacks (3 base +1 2cc, +1 charge) and d3 from rampage. This will give the squad 20+d3 attacks on the charge at I5, with the prince at i6. The squad is ws 5, which the prince at ws6.

I didn't throw them in because I have never seen the FW rules for Corsairs, only a few things from posts like yours. I have only recently started dabbling with FW stuff (Hornets are awesome!) and am waiting to get the fundage for the Doom of Mymera.
Also, and not to sound like a "Hipster", but I have been playing "Corsairs" since before "Corsairs" were an army. I played Eldar and Dark Eldar back in 4th ed, both using mech & bike heavy lists. Both were painted in the same scheme, phoenix heraldry and had the same fluff. Then when Allies were introduced, my armies solidified into 1 Corsair Clan.

Whenever I get the Corsair rules, I'll definitely revisit this idea. But for now I wanted to focus on the units that most people (in my experience) have heard about.
In any case it looks like Shining Spears are pretty much the least favorite choice.

--

That's hardly surprising seeing how poor they are. (Although apparently they're incredibly broken cheese just for being Eldar according to some.)

This is between the Reavers and Staweavers IMO. Shinning Spears just don't put out enough damage to be worth their points and worst of all they're the only one of the three that doesn't have Hit and Run meaning they're likely to end up locked in combat for many turns.

Starweavers have AP2 on the charge with all their attacks but can be very expensive at 50pts/m. It's also worth noting that with careful placement loosing one or two bikes doesn't really lower the attack output of the Reavers since you're relying on the Cluster Caltrops to do the damage and they are only on two of the bikes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Carnith wrote:
Why not throw corsairs into the mix? Three felarch cloud dancers with venom blades are 120 pts (or 135 if you give them combat drugs), give a prince with cloud dancer and void sabre (or another venom b lade) for 110-100 points with Reaper of the Outer Dark (Gives prince rampage and any unit may take rage for free). This gives the felarchs 5 attacks each on the charge, the prince gets 5 attacks (3 base +1 2cc, +1 charge) and d3 from rampage. This will give the squad 20+d3 attacks on the charge at I5, with the prince at i6. The squad is ws 5, which the prince at ws6.

And completely impossible. The Voidstorm Band (a unit of Felarchs, which are the Sgt upgrade for the standard troops) has a minimum of 5 and cannot take Cloud Dancer Jet Bikes, only Jet Packs, and only up to two can take special CCW like the Venom Blade. And if the Prince is taking Combat Drugs he can't take Reaper of the Outer Dark (and thanks to Rage and Rampage from RotOD the Prince has between 7 and 9 attacks on the charge, not 5).

I agree that before the new dark eldar getting started formation came out that it was a little more even, but Jesus christ the potential on those reaver jetbikes! If you max out a squad of reaver jetbikes we are looking at 4 d6 str6 hammer of wrath hits, with rending and with re-rolls of 1's! Thats ballistic when you think about the fact is dosn't include the other 8 str4 rending HoW hits with the other bikes! This could potentially wipe out a squad of 10 SM without even getting to the non-HoW attacks, maybe even do some hefty damage to monsterous creatures. Im not looking forward to seeing this used against me and saying:

"oh whats that? You rolled 10 str 6 HoW hits against my infantry? So thats an auto hit 2+ to wound roll with re-rolls of 1's and a roll of a 6 you autowound with no armour save? Greaaaat. Oh wait, that was only 4 of your 12 unit squad's HoW attacks? And we havn't even gotten past initiative step 10 and half my units dead!?"

To be frank Im over the moon that dark eldar have a decent little formation. They are an army with such a cool concept with very little love given to them.

Holy crap.

The formation is amazing. I didn't even know it came with the Start Collecting box.

 Thunderfrog wrote:
Holy crap.

The formation is amazing. I didn't even know it came with the Start Collecting box.

All the formation give you is preferred enemy against 1 unit per turn, although small it fits perfectly with Reavers and their load-out. Something I didn't note it that if they didn't jink, you can also re-roll 1's on your weapons, which is amazing for blasters!

Hammer of Wrath attacks don't benefit from Preferred Enemy as Hammer of Wrath attacks don't benefit from any of the model's special rules unless stated otherwise.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Hammer of Wrath attacks don't benefit from Preferred Enemy as Hammer of Wrath attacks don't benefit from any of the model's special rules unless stated otherwise.

God damn, you may be right, despite it saying all close combat attacks I'm pretty sure hammer of Wrath's rule overrides that rule, such a shame.

3 corsair jetbikes with 3 felarchs with venom blades.
Attach Prince and profit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Imateria wrote:
This is between the Reavers and Staweavers IMO. Shinning Spears just don't put out enough damage to be worth their points and worst of all they're the only one of the three that doesn't have Hit and Run meaning they're likely to end up locked in combat for many turns.

Starweavers have AP2 on the charge with all their attacks but can be very expensive at 50pts/m. It's also worth noting that with careful placement loosing one or two bikes doesn't really lower the attack output of the Reavers since you're relying on the Cluster Caltrops to do the damage and they are only on two of the bikes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Carnith wrote:
Why not throw corsairs into the mix? Three felarch cloud dancers with venom blades are 120 pts (or 135 if you give them combat drugs), give a prince with cloud dancer and void sabre (or another venom b lade) for 110-100 points with Reaper of the Outer Dark (Gives prince rampage and any unit may take rage for free). This gives the felarchs 5 attacks each on the charge, the prince gets 5 attacks (3 base +1 2cc, +1 charge) and d3 from rampage. This will give the squad 20+d3 attacks on the charge at I5, with the prince at i6. The squad is ws 5, which the prince at ws6.

And completely impossible. The Voidstorm Band (a unit of Felarchs, which are the Sgt upgrade for the standard troops) has a minimum of 5 and cannot take Cloud Dancer Jet Bikes, only Jet Packs, and only up to two can take special CCW like the Venom Blade. And if the Prince is taking Combat Drugs he can't take Reaper of the Outer Dark (and thanks to Rage and Rampage from RotOD the Prince has between 7 and 9 attacks on the charge, not 5).

Nope. take the normal troop unit of cloudancers.
You can upgrade 3 to felarchs.

 Imateria wrote:
This is between the Reavers and Staweavers IMO. Shinning Spears just don't put out enough damage to be worth their points and worst of all they're the only one of the three that doesn't have Hit and Run meaning they're likely to end up locked in combat for many turns.

Starweavers have AP2 on the charge with all their attacks but can be very expensive at 50pts/m. It's also worth noting that with careful placement loosing one or two bikes doesn't really lower the attack output of the Reavers since you're relying on the Cluster Caltrops to do the damage and they are only on two of the bikes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Carnith wrote:
Why not throw corsairs into the mix? Three felarch cloud dancers with venom blades are 120 pts (or 135 if you give them combat drugs), give a prince with cloud dancer and void sabre (or another venom b lade) for 110-100 points with Reaper of the Outer Dark (Gives prince rampage and any unit may take rage for free). This gives the felarchs 5 attacks each on the charge, the prince gets 5 attacks (3 base +1 2cc, +1 charge) and d3 from rampage. This will give the squad 20+d3 attacks on the charge at I5, with the prince at i6. The squad is ws 5, which the prince at ws6.

And completely impossible. The Voidstorm Band (a unit of Felarchs, which are the Sgt upgrade for the standard troops) has a minimum of 5 and cannot take Cloud Dancer Jet Bikes, only Jet Packs, and only up to two can take special CCW like the Venom Blade. And if the Prince is taking Combat Drugs he can't take Reaper of the Outer Dark (and thanks to Rage and Rampage from RotOD the Prince has between 7 and 9 attacks on the charge, not 5).

Jet bikes can get up to 3 felarchs in their squad paying 10 points per each. Also any felarch can take up to two from the list. The only restriction is the 4 special weapons which is 1 per 5. And in my list I said reaper of the outer dark spots I don't know why or recall where combat drugs come into play (I am on my phone and cannot check easily). Also my math said a flat 5 +d3 fromy rampage. Also check it he himself does not get rage. Only rampage.

I've invested a lot of time reading and rereading the book and have built up a fun little corsairs force. Reread the book and check back.

I'd completely missed that with Cloud Dancers being able to take 3 Felarchs. Still, other than the prince there's not much in the Corsairs that can go toe-to-toe with another close combat unit, I'd be far more inclined to run them like Windriders as a fast shooty unit instead.

Reaper of the Outer Dark specifically says that any Corsairs unit with the Infantry, Jet Pack or Eldar Jet Bike unit type can be upgraded to take Rage for free, and given that the Prince meets those conditions you would assume he gets rage as well.