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Hey all

I'm a Space Marine player who runs a DIY Imperial/Crimson Fist Chapter, so I just use the Codex: Space Marines and I have a good time with it. But I really love Terminators. I've got a bunch of them, and they are just a blast to run. I realized that Dark Angels can take them as troop choices with a certain HQ choice. So what I'm wondering is, are Dark Angels just as competitive as Codex Marines? I'm planning on buying the codex for the Angels and calling my DIY chapter a successor chapter of the Angels for game where I feel so inclined to.

I guess my biggest questions are:
How recent is the Dark Angels codex?
Are they competitive?
Are they incredibly different from the regular codex?

What are some other things I need to know?

Others will be able to answer better as I am not a DA player, however I have been looking at the Codex recently as my friend plays them.

The Codex is older (last edition was c. 2006 IIRC) so therefore doesn't have the goodies that the new C:SM does - indeed there are some discrepancies in terms of passager capacities in vehicles, troop costings etc which is only to be expected.

On the flip side the DA do have some special rules which give some decent slants to play them in a fluffy manner, i.e. the Deathwing, Ravenwing and Special Characters.

If you are going for a solely Terminator force then CA is your best choice (in fact only choice) - your whole army will be fearless and you will be able to take Terminators as Elites and Troops. Likewise if you are going to include Ravenwing elements. However if you are going to be doing a more balanced SM army then C:SM is better due to the range of options and reduced prices. It isn't as fluffy (you'll effectively be playing 'Green Marines' rather than Unforgiven) however I think it would be more competitive. Ultimately it's your choice as to how you want to approach the game.

That's my tuppence worth, hoepfully a proper DA will be able to explain better than my ramblings!

(Edited once for punctuation )

Hi, I am a DA player and I own an entire company (all squads and vehicles) all the special characters, 5 squads of Deathwing (to include the command squad) and 5 full squads of Ravenwing (to include the command squad).

1. Yes they are fairly recent codex (only 3 years old tops, possibly less, I don't have the codex in front of me right now).

2. Are they competitive? They are not a power-gamer's army (eldar, lash chaos, or orks). But they are competitive none-the-less. I still win more than I draw and draw more than I lose (If that makes sense). Ravenwing is probably the better of the 3 types of armies from a competitive stance, but I find a mix of all the types of armies you can field is often times the best choice.

3. They are not too different from regular marines. And in all honesty you can field more for less with Codex: SM. I put together the same 1500 list from codex DA (the list I normally play with) with the Codex SM prices and had around 150 spare points left over! But, DA do have better chaplains and better librarians (not librarian powers though) than SM. Other than that, they are pretty much a more expensive version of Codex SM with lesser options.

However, you can field an entire Terminator army with them. Something you can't do with SM. But that is probably the biggest difference between the 2 books.

The other noticeable difference between the two is how easy it is to make a fearless army for the Dark Angels. Not only are the Deathwing and Ravenwing Fearless as standard but even the basic marine squads can be made so, thanks to the various banners you can have scattered through the army. Any unit with 12 inches of several different banners becomes fearless.

So...leadership tests are a thing of the past for the most part.

padixon wrote:Hi, I am a DA player and I own an entire company (all squads and vehicles) all the special characters, 5 squads of Deathwing (to include the command squad) and 5 full squads of Ravenwing (to include the command squad).

1. Yes they are fairly recent codex (only 3 years old tops, possibly less, I don't have the codex in front of me right now).

2. Are they competitive? They are not a power-gamer's army (eldar, lash chaos, or orks). But they are competitive none-the-less. I still win more than I draw and draw more than I lose (If that makes sense). Ravenwing is probably the better of the 3 types of armies from a competitive stance, but I find a mix of all the types of armies you can field is often times the best choice.

3. They are not too different from regular marines. And in all honesty you can field more for less with Codex: SM. I put together the same 1500 list from codex DA (the list I normally play with) with the Codex SM prices and had around 150 spare points left over! But, DA do have better chaplains and better librarians (not librarian powers though) than SM. Other than that, they are pretty much a more expensive version of Codex SM with lesser options.

However, you can field an entire Terminator army with them. Something you can't do with SM. But that is probably the biggest difference between the 2 books.

i agree
i too have a full company of marines :- 4 drop tac squads /3 rino mounted sq /4 devies with razor backs / 2 assault squads /chappies and libs galore (6 of each) all special carr /6 dreads (3 deathwing ones in pods) 2 landies / 40 termies + all hq choices /whirlie/vindie/pred/ and 6 bike squads /7 landspeeders + lanspeeder crusader/jet bike opps

they are heaps of fun and just diffrent enough to stand out
the all termie army is fun but a bit tricky to get used to as every casualty hurts ..same with ravenwing but once you get your head round how to use them they are fun and competative as hell . in an inter store tournie last year my ravenwing took second place after taking on two horde nid armys (i only had 15 models 1000 pts) and kicking ass and a minor loss against marines in the final ....

i say go for it
welcome to the dark(ish) side LOL

Thanks for all the input. I really appreciate it

At this point, I'm going to grab the codex. Since I run a DIY chapter, using my figures shouldn't be too much of a hassle And I'm thankful I have a squad of unpainted termies that I'm going to paint up for this.

And I read up on some of their fluff. Great stuff. These guys are pretty sick.

Deathwing is competitive until round 3. Top table power armies are hard to beat with Deathwing. Most tournaments I've been to with them have been 2-1 with the 1 coming in the last game. The two things that give me the most fits at this time is nidzilla and lash. Lash isn't as bad for you though since your hoods are better than the standard SM codex one. The whole table is your playground.

They are a very fun army to play though. I've played them for about 3 years now.

12thRonin wrote:Deathwing is competitive until round 3. Top table power armies are hard to beat with Deathwing. Most tournaments I've been to with them have been 2-1 with the 1 coming in the last game. The two things that give me the most fits at this time is nidzilla and lash. Lash isn't as bad for you though since your hoods are better than the standard SM codex one. The whole table is your playground.

They are a very fun army to play though. I've played them for about 3 years now.

No one I typically play against runs Nids or Lash Princes so I think I'll be okay with that. And I don't really play "competitively", I just screw around with some friends. But I can't wait to really get to know the codex. I really only plan to use it for Deathwing, but even then, I may finding something else worth digging in to.

Does GW not make a kit for the HQ that lets you field Termies as troops?

No, if yyou want Belial you need to do him yourself. However, the Space Marine Commander in Terminator Armour with a Power Sword and Storm Bolter has all the right gear and looks about right, so that's what some people use.

They don't; you have to convert someone else. Lysader seems to be a popular choice. I believe GW has a "how to" article on their site.

Hmm... I think I may like the idea of buying another Lysander to convert. He is definitely one of my favorite models. But thanks for letting me know there isn't a model for Belial.

Now I need to get a few marine kits and start my successor chapter

defo lysander the termi capt is too small now next to the new plastic termis he looks too small and not "bulky" enough ..its an easy job i made a fair job and I'm not ace at conversions (i say I'm fair/average)

I've only got about 4 grand in DA myself (Which in comparison to the guys with full companies isn't a lot), but I absolutely love them. I enjoy the look, the fluff, everything. It's one of those SM armies that can really suck you in. As for competitiveness it's just as competitive as a regular SM army I feel. A lot you can do with them.

I did have a full Deathwing Army from a few years ago but it's no longer really as valid as it once was (I have a lot of heavy weapons and special equipment models like Cyclones, Assault Cannons, etc.). Still neat models, paint jobs, stories, rules, etc.

My only question about the Dark Angels codex is that some things are different from the current Space Marines codex(I'm a 5th ED newbie ). Like, there's a 4+ invul save from storm shields instead of the 3+ it's currently at, and the drop pod's BS is 2. Which set of numbers applies?

And now you've come to it. We get to use our "own" dex and all of it's Limited possibilities.

And we overpay for worse gear/fewer choices.

But, I guess that's the breaks for now.

I think the generalized Fearless, long ranged Psychic Hoods, and Deathwing Assault make up for what the Dark Angels miss out on. Not to mention that Dark Angels get a horrible advantage from their Smoke Launchers in 5th edition.

It is disappointing, but I actually like the way the codex limits things in a fluffy sort of way. Like, their storm shields only give a 4+ invul because they probably aren't as good as the "newer" ones used by the Ultramarines or whatever. I'm coming to grips with it. But the Deathwing is what I'm about. So I'll take that little bit of bad with that great amount of good.

Deathwing are good playing as either DW Assualt army or as landraider spam from what I have seen. I am a greenwing player myself so I generally end up using the SM codex instead.

Nurglitch wrote:I think the generalized Fearless, long ranged Psychic Hoods, and Deathwing Assault make up for what the Dark Angels miss out on. Not to mention that Dark Angels get a horrible advantage from their Smoke Launchers in 5th edition.

Only if you play DW or RW, as a greenwing player myself I will play my DA in friendly games. But they stay on the shelf for the FLGS tournaments, or my gaming groups current summer league. I just have too much pride to play them as green SM with robes.

I'm a new/returning player building a DA army, I have the DA codex, but decided to use the 5th ed. SM Codex for my army. I do like much of the DA fluff, and the special characters, but I don't really want a Deathwing/Ravenwing heavy army, so its really easier and more cost effective to just use the newer codex. Maybe if a 5th ed. Dark Angels Codex comes out I will switch, but until then I am happy with Green Marines.

Just wait until the new DA codex comes out. Judging by the state of the Space Wolves codex and what I've heard of the Blood Angels, it's going to be good. We're going to have Deathwing Assault that let's them assault the turn they DS (with no scatter, of course). Belial will be 4W, Eternal Warrior, with a special Company Banner that gives every Deathwing unit Furious Charge. Ravenwing bikes will be able to Outflank from any side they choose (including opponents deployment side). Sammael will have a special rule that lets all Ravenwing shoot their weapons the turn they turbo-boost. I love codex creep!

Of course when that happens, 6th edition will come out and remove Turbo-Boost, Furious Charge, Deep Striking, Outflanking and everything else, and thus the circle of life continues!

For the time being however, unless you're running Deathwing, just use the SM codex for everything.
Edit: Ugh, didn't see the necro >.>

As for how to run a deathwing army. You have trouble taking out vehicles at range without dreadnoughts and land raiders. Assault terminators should be in land raiders. If you don't plan on using an Interrogator Chaplain then use a different rules set. They are the most significant unit that the DA have that other armys don't (That isn't a special character). Deathwing is a fun army to play. You get to field a lot of terminators and the games go fast whether you win or lose. I tend to go for squads of 1 chain fist and 1 assault cannon. AP 2 makes the army just about unplayable, but if you have decent transports it puts the army back on an even footing.

I play a mix of Ravenwing and troops, and while the Codex is limiting that's the fun of it. When you stomp a blue guy you did it with less options and better tactics!!