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1 Supreme Sorceress 320
Level 4, Sacrificial dagger, pendenth of khaeleth

1 Master 319
Manticore, lance, shield, sea dragon cloack,
Cloak of Hag Graef, heavy armour

1 Sorceress 125
dispell scroll

25 Warriors 190
Full command, shield

10 crossbowmen 115
shields musician.

10 crossbowmen 115
shields musician.

14 Black guards 245
Champ, Standard, standard of hag ghraef

5 Cold one Knights 202
Champ, Standard, Standard of Slaughter

1 Hydra 175

1 Hydra 175

I don't think your master can wear two cloaks. I would lose a unit of crossbowmen for a unit of 5 dark riders with repeater crossbows. I would probably lose cloak of hag graef on the master and the shields and musician on the crossbowmen, plus the 5 point difference between the dark riders and rxbmen would give you 45 points. 10 more and I would get a unit of 5 pesky harpies. The nice thing is that your opponent will have to worry about 2x hydras and a manticore before they take out your sorceress and block of 25 warriors.

Ok, first off 2 hydras will not make you any friends, also the scroll caddy sorceress is a waste IMO. Dropping theese leaves you with 300pts.

With this i'd either buy another unit of 25 warriors (identical to the one in your list) and another xbowmen unit (also identical). An alternitive is to get some more elite hard-hitters, more BG or Cold one knights.

Nothing in the RAW says you can't wear two cloaks. On the other hand... can we say "Cheese"?

Two hydras and a manticore are nasty. I love it! Add in the Black Guard and you have CC about as wrapped up as a DE army can get.

The scroll caddy is a waste. Either take her up to level 2 and give her a backup offensive roll (with a Darkstar Cloak?), or drop her entirely.

On the other hand, this is a really slow army for Dark Elves. I would really consider dropping the spearmen block for 5 Dark Riders with RXB and 5 harpies (totalling 165 points, leaving a bit for upgrading the sorceress, perhaps?) . Both are great for harrassment, march blocking, and other such tasks. Of course, this will leave you with nothing to sacrifice... so choose a different magic item for the SS. I would reccomend the Black Staff myself.

Nice idea in general, needs a bit of refinement.

Whoops! I just looked it up. The Cloak of Hag Graef is already a Sea Dragon Cloak. You are not allowed to wear two of the same type of item, period.

Vulcan wrote:Whoops! I just looked it up. The Cloak of Hag Graef is already a Sea Dragon Cloak. You are not allowed to wear two of the same type of item, period.

Replace it with Armour of darkness then ?.

I'd drop the basic Sea Dragon Cloak instead, and keep the Cloak of Hag Graef.

The only reason to take the Armor of Darkness is if you intend to use a weapon that prevents the use of a shield, since Heavy Armor + Shield + Sea Dragon Cloak = 3+ armor save (2+ vs shooting or when using a mundane hand weapon), is significantly cheaper, doesn't take up points from your magic allotment (and for the icing on the cake, improves to 1/0+ on a cold one! ).

Why do you think it is so cheap in the first place?

Bump.

Would taking out the CoK's and Spearmen make this list better, they seem useless.

How about this

1 Supreme Sorceress 320
Level 4, Sacrificial dagger, pendenth of khaeleth

1 Master 319
Manticore, lance, shield, sea dragon cloack,
Cloak of Hag Graef, heavy armour

1 Sorceress 185 lvl 2
dispell scroll
dispell scroll

10 crossbowmen 100

10 crossbowmen 100

14 Black guards 245
Champ, Standard, standard of hag ghraef

14 Black guards 245
Champ, Standard, standard of hag ghraef

6x shades, great weapons 108

5x harpies

1 Hydra 175

1 Hydra 175

I don't have my book on me, but I am pretty sure you can't have both a sea dragon cloak and a cloak of hag graef. Same goes with two banners of hag graef. Black guard just aren't as awesome without the banner, so one unit is good. They act as your anvil, so what you need is a hammer unit. For a 135 points, cold one knights are pretty good.

boogeyman wrote:I don't have my book on me, but I am pretty sure you can't have both a sea dragon cloak and a cloak of hag graef. Same goes with two banners of hag graef. Black guard just aren't as awesome without the banner, so one unit is good. They act as your anvil, so what you need is a hammer unit. For a 135 points, cold one knights are pretty good.

It doesn't seem to say (one per army) would you happen to know where i could find this ? as i am still new to fantasy.

Also how would taking out the shades and a dispell scroll off the mage work for getting a CoK unit ?.

Alright, you have a few issues going on at the same time.

First, a couple of rules issues. The Cloak of Hag Graef is a Sea Dragon Cloak, so you can't wear another on top of it. You cannot wear the same item type more than once unless it is explicitly written that you may (such as a Null Talisman). This is also why you cannot combine Light/Heavy armor with magical armor.

At 2000pts you are required to have three Core units. Right now you have two in your Crossbowmen. You'll need one more.

Moving on from there, your Lord/Hero choices seem a little confused. A Supreme Sorceress with a Sacrificial Dagger can be a very scary thing and can burn through lots of dispel dice on her own. That being said, she needs quite a few bodies to fuel her big spells and you certainly do not have enough. If you plan on running a foot Sorceress I would invest in the Black Staff or a decent-sized block of Spearmen. I don't really like a Sorceress on foot, though. It makes her very vulnerable to suicide charges or Assassin units. I've enjoyed the Dark Pegasus with Focus Familiar to shoot around corners or extend her reach, but even the Pegasus with Black Staff and Pendant would do well.

You do not need a scroll caddy. If you want a second Sorceress, make her a Lv.2 with the Darkstar Cloak or Tome of Furion so she can be useful. You can still take a scroll or two on top of this split between the two Sorcs.

With your Master, why did you choose the Cloak of Hag Graef? Not that I disagree, it is nice for things that hit your Master, it just doesn't help at all against things that hit your Manticore like the Ring of Darkness could. The ring doesn't help against cannonballs or stone throwers, but helps against everything else in the game that could be shooting you and anything that might have ASF or something that charges your Master. Though, since you're on a flier, that should never be the case since you should always be choosing your battles.

You can never have two of the same magic item unless explicitly stated (Null Talisman, Scroll, etc). This includes Magic Banners such as the Banner of Hag Graef. You mentioned having a Spearmen block previously, if you feel the need for a second anvil unit you can replace the second unit of Black Guard with a 5x4 block of Warriors for relatively cheap. This would also fill in that third Core spot for you.

Shades are fun, as are Cold One Knights. They're both good choices, they just do very different things. You've gone pretty character heavy with this list, and it's not entirely necessary that you do so. Right now you're missing counter-charge units for your potential Spearmen and Black Guard outside of your Hydras which might be busy elsewhere. The single Manticore Master could more than make room for two units of Cold One Knights or a couple of Chariots.

How would i make this list ultra competitive ? i am thinking black dragon,2 hydras 2 units of black guard and scroll caddy, lvl4 mage, commander and fill the rest with dark riders.

You really shouldn't worry so much about ultra competitive and should focus more on learning the game. Yes, you've read and likely heard correctly; Dark Elves can be very competitive and have a good number of scary units including a focused magic phase, Hydras, unkillable Lord on Dragon, etc.

It seems clear you're pulling at what you've heard and read and want to jump into Fantasy with a big bang, but have a tenuous grasp on the rules and gameplay. You should sit down with the army book, read over it a couple times and figure out what units you like and what kind of list you'd like to run. While you're at it, glance over the rules and see about playing a few small games with a variety of unit types so you get a feel for what each does. Many armies wish they had the variety of good units that Dark Elves do and because there is a nice variety, there is a variety of unit roles available that you should understand before jumping into a 2000pt army.

Another thing to consider would be going over to the Tactics forum and asking about units you may have questions about.

Small note, you usually want to give the unit champion of a black guard unit a Crimson Death

Kirbinator wrote:You really shouldn't worry so much about ultra competitive and should focus more on learning the game. Yes, you've read and likely heard correctly; Dark Elves can be very competitive and have a good number of scary units including a focused magic phase, Hydras, unkillable Lord on Dragon, etc.

It seems clear you're pulling at what you've heard and read and want to jump into Fantasy with a big bang, but have a tenuous grasp on the rules and gameplay. You should sit down with the army book, read over it a couple times and figure out what units you like and what kind of list you'd like to run. While you're at it, glance over the rules and see about playing a few small games with a variety of unit types so you get a feel for what each does. Many armies wish they had the variety of good units that Dark Elves do and because there is a nice variety, there is a variety of unit roles available that you should understand before jumping into a 2000pt army.

Another thing to consider would be going over to the Tactics forum and asking about units you may have questions about.

I would like to reinforce what Kirbinator said. You do not seem to have a solid grasp of the rules yet and you are already thinking about ultra competitive army lists. The army won't make you win (though having a strong army does help a bit), your tactics can make you win. Learning how to use your units is a very important part of Warhammer, so you shouldn't expect to jump right in and be competitive.