Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi Dakka
I recently got a Lufgt Huron model, and being the stingy guy i am, printed off his rules from the web, instead of getting the Imperial Armour book. If i took this piece of paper in to GW, as well as my SM codex, would they get annoyed? Or worse? Do they expect me to get the IA book?

I would think for casual games, the trial rules would be fine. But for any kind of event you're going to have to have the AI book, as the trial rules/point values change in the actual AI books.

I copy'd and pasted his rules from the IA book, so there legit.

As long as you don't flaunt it as "I downloaded this without paying" in the staff and everybodies face, I doubt anybody would care.

However, in spirit of the game, you should purchase the book if you want to use the rules. I mean support the game company who makes them at least...

Lol, nice.
But in that case, yeah expect to be told to buy the book if you’re playing in a GW store.

I know I know, its pretty low, but i am not going to spend around 80 bucks for one guy. I think i will just use the rules at home and use him as a chapter master or something at GW.

Just say you have the book, but it weighs a tonne, so you don't carry it with you. Simples.

So utterly crazy, it might just work.
I might actually do that.

I'd go with the "It cost me $80 - I'm not dragging it in here so that 'pizza-fingers and diet-sprite drooler'* over there can muss it up. A print/copy will do for that.


*Your store regulars may vary - but I still wouldn't bring an IA book into a GW store for games.

Yeah, there is the occasional 8 yr old eating maccas. And there sooooooo inquisitive about ******* everything!

It should be fine. I generally grimace at kids and they back away from me.

I have most rules I need, be it from codizes or other supplements, copied together in a neat folder. I can only reccomend everybody doing so, as it really helps to keep the (often pretty poor in terms of quality) publications in shape.
There are one or two pages of PDFs in there, because, really, I'm not going to buy a 80 bucks book for a single entry. Did that once and regretted it ever since.

Wow, so many people so ready to compromise their personal integrity over 80$.

Why not buy a copy of the book with a bunch of friends that you play with and then share it at the store? You could always 'go without' if the value of the product doesn't meet the cost for you.

If I know something is 'wrong' enough and is a crime where I need to lie to people about it, there is an issue. There are more important things in life than needing to lie about stealing publications...

I've got to agree with nkelsch on this one.

Go streaking through their building. that will annoy them

Meh, I've got a lot of books. I don't carry them round to game at my friends house as they'd get smokey. 2 minutes on the scanner and I have copies that can get coke spilt on them, cigarrettes inadvertently dropped on them... and it saves weight. Downside, sometimes we need something I didn't print.

This said, I'm thinking about getting an iPad or something just for game book .pdf's. So convenient.

Don't play at a GW shop. Maybe there's a FLGS nearby?

Norn King wrote:I know I know, its pretty low, but i am not going to spend around 80 bucks for one guy

There's a very obvious solution there then that doesn't involve lying to people or copying rules from books that you haven't bought...

He's not an essential part of the game. If you're not prepared to buy the rules needed to use him, then don't use him. Problem solved, and personal integrity intact.


The fact that so many people are so ready to lie about inconsequential things depresses me.

Fair enough, maybe the IA book will come up on ebay cheaply or something. I'll get it then. If not, ill just use him for private games.

nkelsch wrote:There are more important things in life than needing to lie about stealing publications...

Copyright infringement is not "stealing".

Please stop repeating this lie as if it were fact. Words have meanings. A chihuahua is not a rottweiler even though they have some superficial similarities.

I rather think that the fact that they wrote the rules up on the internet negate their right to prevent you from using the internet copy.

Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:I rather think that the fact that they wrote the rules up on the internet negate their right to prevent you from using the internet copy.

He's not wanting to use the freely-available internet copy. He wants to use the ones from the published IA book. They are (apparently) different rules, different point values, etc.

I think we're referring to a torrent of IA11, rather than experimental rules.... right?

Ouze wrote:

nkelsch wrote:There are more important things in life than needing to lie about stealing publications...

Copyright infringement is not "stealing".

Please stop repeating this lie as if it were fact. Words have meanings. A chihuahua is not a rottweiler even though they have some superficial similarities.

So lying about breaking the law is fine... as long as it isn't 'theft'. Self-serving moral justifications to break the law are still self-serving moral justifications to break the law.

Copyright infringement may not be legal 'theft' doesn't mean a whole lot of people don't consider it stealing... And they have every right to. Besides, who cares what someone who lies about breaking the law to save 80$ thinks?

To be fair, my GW has a few of the IAs available for players to peruse, so maybe yours does as well?

nkelsch wrote:

Ouze wrote:

nkelsch wrote:There are more important things in life than needing to lie about stealing publications...

Copyright infringement is not "stealing".

Please stop repeating this lie as if it were fact. Words have meanings. A chihuahua is not a rottweiler even though they have some superficial similarities.

Copyright infringement may not be legal 'theft' doesn't mean a whole lot of people don't consider it stealing... And they have every right to.

No they don't, because it's not.

Talk to a lawyer. Or anyone who is reasonably smart on the internet.

nkelsch wrote:

Ouze wrote:

nkelsch wrote:There are more important things in life than needing to lie about stealing publications...

Copyright infringement is not "stealing".

Please stop repeating this lie as if it were fact. Words have meanings. A chihuahua is not a rottweiler even though they have some superficial similarities.

So lying about breaking the law is fine... as long as it isn't 'theft'. Self-serving moral justifications to break the law are still self-serving moral justifications to break the law.

Hey, guess who has two thumbs and didn't actually say what you're pretending I said? This Guy!

If you want to move the goalposts to "is it morally justified to lie about owning a book so you can use an army man in a store under false pretenses", then I'd agree, no. By definition, I think, if you feel you have to lie about something, you generally know already you shouldn't have done it. But that's not what my post was about, had you troubled to read it, I simply corrected the oft-repeated and untrue meme that copyright infringement is the same as stealing. It's not, either legally or rationally.

In any event, I guess now this sort of begs the question - Did FW ever publish experimental rules for this model? Cause that would be actually sort of a different situation.

Ouze wrote:

nkelsch wrote:There are more important things in life than needing to lie about stealing publications...

Copyright infringement is not "stealing".

Please stop repeating this lie as if it were fact. Words have meanings. A chihuahua is not a rottweiler even though they have some superficial similarities.

I can't agree more.

Personally (from the perspective of someone who is in a creative field and could suffer from copyright infringement), I feel that, unless you're profiting off of it (i.e. selling something that the copyright owner would have profited off of without your encroaching on their IP), it really isn't stealing.

If you don't like the material, delete it (and if you don't want to, you probably like it). If you do like it, eventually buy it, so whoever made it can make more stuff.

GW is a minatures company so go for it.

o.o idk if its the same thing but on all the forgeworld stuff I've gotten they've always had a PDF for it that i've just downloaded and printed off, I've never seen any difference unless the age of the model counts in that in a later edition of said books it will be changed, but if the model is new the AI book won't have anything different to what's on the website PDF - if anything at all

Can't say for anyone else but I use forgeworld print outs and they say its fine at the GW, they also have GW copies of all the books available for players to reference if there's an issue you COULD just use the rules you have on you to plan your army and per say, ask to see or reference there book when you need it? granted thats if they stock it