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Is the only officially named Segmentum Commander fluff-wise Macharius?

I'm particularly interested in who the Ultima Segmentum Lord Commander is. Is it ruled by Ultramar (Lord Macragge)? Also, are the five Lord Commanders in the IN hierarchy, or the IG hierarchy, or both? Anybody know how big a Segmentum Fleet is (again, particularly the Ultima one)? Finally, if a large scale campaign or crusade is being fought, who has final jurisdiction? The High Admiral of the Fleet? The Militant General of the Guard? The CM of any Astartes involved? The Inquisition? Can it be any or all of these, as in, do the High Lords pick and choose whoever they feel fits the bill?

Segmentum Command is, I believe, an Imperial Guard/Munitorum posting, overseeing all warzones in a Segmentum and coordinating reinforcements.
The Navy would have something similar, but separate, and slightly more concerned with "peacetime" patrols and anti-piracy operations rather than ongoing warfare.
They don't really work together under a common authority, not below the High Lords. The only time that Guard and Navy resources are subservient to a single command would be when a Warmaster is chosen for some campaign.

Given that Space Marines are supposed to be kept out of the Imperial Guard's hierarchy, I don't think that Ultima Segmentum would defer to the Ultramarines or even have an Ultramarine leader - but the Ultras would no doubt have a very close relationship with whoever is in charge, simply because they have such a large realm there and because they seem to be rather (pro-)active and don't shy back from actually working together with other Imperial forces.

"The strategic command of the Imperial Guard is provided by the Departmento Munitorum of the Administratum. This department of the Adeptus Terra forms the general staff of the Imperial Guard responsible for munitions, supply, recruitment, training, transportation and all aspects of the Imperial Guard establishment.
The chief of staff of the Departmento Munitorum is the Lord Commander Militant of the Imperial Guard, a powerful official and often one of the High Lords of Terra. Within each of the four outlying Segmentae of the Imperium, there is a separate strategic command base alongside the fleet bases at Cypra Mundi, Bakka, Kar Duniash and Hydraphur. The fifth base is on Earth in the Segmentum Solar. Each of these has its own strategic command and reserves. The Lord Commander of each Segmentum is in charge of all military operations within his area, an awesome responsibility indeed."
- 2E C:IG

"In theory, Imperial Guard officers receive their orders from the Lord Commander of their respective Segmentum Commands, who are in turn enacting the wishes of the High Lords of Terra. In practice, the immense distances and delays in communication between worlds often make a mockery of such procedures and the sheer scale of the Imperium prevents any meaningful central control. Operational control of any given army group is therefore assigned to a high-ranking Imperial officer such as a general, high marshal or even lord hetman who assumes responsibility for completion of his given duties."
- 5E C:IG

Eye of Terror a very early and not very good BL book had a sub plot about two Segmuntum fleet commanders planning an invasion of the Eye.

Can't remember their names though.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Eye of Terror a very early and not very good BL book had a sub plot about two Segmuntum fleet commanders planning an invasion of the Eye.

Can't remember their names though.

Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum?
Frankly anyone planning an invasion of the Eye has to be fairly insane...

purplefood wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Eye of Terror a very early and not very good BL book had a sub plot about two Segmuntum fleet commanders planning an invasion of the Eye.

Can't remember their names though.

Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum?
Frankly anyone planning an invasion of the Eye has to be fairly insane...

Or simply trying to get back home..with a few good men.

Macharius is rare, in that he is given complete control of a segmentum, even Warmasters (among the absolutely highest Guard rankings) only have command of sectors within segmentums.

Lynata wrote:Segmentum Command is, I believe, an Imperial Guard/Munitorum posting, overseeing all warzones in a Segmentum and coordinating reinforcements.
The Navy would have something similar, but separate, and slightly more concerned with "peacetime" patrols and anti-piracy operations rather than ongoing warfare.
They don't really work together under a common authority, not below the High Lords. The only time that Guard and Navy resources are subservient to a single command would be when a Warmaster is chosen for some campaign.

Yeah, I guess this makes sense. I think I read on the Lex that there are five Lord Commanders and five Lord High Admirals (one for each Segmentum). However, don't the DM manage both the Fleet and the Guard (therefore both Commanders and Admirals would be Munitorum postings), or does the Navy have its own, separate division of the Administratum to run it?

Given that Space Marines are supposed to be kept out of the Imperial Guard's hierarchy, I don't think that Ultima Segmentum would defer to the Ultramarines or even have an Ultramarine leader - but the Ultras would no doubt have a very close relationship with whoever is in charge, simply because they have such a large realm there and because they seem to be rather (pro-)active and don't shy back from actually working together with other Imperial forces.

Yeah, again this makes sense. I didn't think that Lord Macragge would have such power over the IG as well as having a much larger-than-usual seat of power for an Astartes (yes, the actual Ultramarines may only be 1000 strong like all other codex chapters, but having control over a sector-sized kingdom, influence over many successor chapters as well as not being directly under the nose of the High Lords, Inquisition etc makes them rather powerful), I just wanted confirmation more than anything due to me not being able to find any named Lord Ultima in the fluff.

As far as the Lord Commanders are concerned, then, I guess they make a judement call on each threat to their Segmentum as it reveals itself as to who to appoint to take care of it - be it an experienced Militant General or High Admiral. If they want a "joint-forces" deal with the Astartes, I'm assuming that they can request aid (rather than demand) and that the Astartes have perogative to say no? I mean, each Chapter runs itself pretty autonamously, right? So they can pick and choose where and when they fight. Does it swing both ways, I wonder? For instance can an Astartes make demands of the Segmentum Command? Or is it a mutual relationship of cooperation?

Lynata pretty much covered it. There are 5 Segmentum Commanders based at those 5 locations. Each Segmentum Command is a mini-Terra, complete with Administratum, Ecclesiarchy, Arbites, Assassin, Inquisition, Mechanicus etc. headquarters.Segmentum Commanders de jure only oversee the Imperial Guard/Departmento Munitorum activities in their region. However de facto, this probably extends to everything but the Inquisition/Arbites.

There are 5 Lord High Admirals as well, and they often get confused with the 5 Segmentum Commanders. However these are just the commanders of Imperial Navy activity in those Segmentums. Also, the Navy's headquarters for Segmentum Solar is Mars (not Terra).

Harriticus wrote:Lynata pretty much covered it. There are 5 Segmentum Commanders based at those 5 locations. Each Segmentum Command is a mini-Terra, complete with Administratum, Ecclesiarchy, Arbites, Assassin, Inquisition, Mechanicus etc. headquarters.Segmentum Commanders de jure only oversee the Imperial Guard/Departmento Munitorum activities in their region. However de facto, this probably extends to everything but the Inquisition/Arbites.

There are 5 Lord High Admirals as well, and they often get confused with the 5 Segmentum Commanders. However these are just the commanders of Imperial Navy activity in those Segmentums. Also, the Navy's headquarters for Segmentum Solar is Mars (not Terra).

Yeah, I know pretty much what they are, I was just wondering who they are. But, I guess the topic title in and of itself doesn't really make a clear distinction. I know each Segmentum has it's own Fleet and Fortress Base and they all work almost independently of Holy Terra (through necessity of the vastness and complexity of the Imperium, and the difficulty of contact via the warp - particularly the Eastern regions in Ultima), and that anyone who falls under the jurisdiction of their respective Segmentum Command will treat their word as that of the High Lords themselves. Other authorities like the Astartes and the Inquisition being exceptions, of course, who (I assume) pretty much go where they please in the name of the God-Emperor Himself.

Anfauglir wrote:However, don't the DM manage both the Fleet and the Guard (therefore both Commanders and Admirals would be Munitorum postings), or does the Navy have its own, separate division of the Administratum to run it?

That's a pretty good question, actually - but I think the Navy is somewhat more independent. The Imperial Guard requires a steady supply chain, which is managed by the Munitorum, whereas Navy ships have been described as being allowed to simply "demand men and munitions" from any Imperial world they visit, which would make their ships more autonomous than an immobile regiment that needs stuff getting delivered TO it. The Navy would probably still have supply chains for more exotic material as well as to secure the continued existence of its various fleet bases, but the comparatively small size of the IN (compared to the millions of Guard regiments) might allow the Navy to do this sort of stuff on their own without a legion of scribes to keep track of stuff.

Just my interpretation, mind you. I only know that the Lord Commander Militant is synonymous with the Munitorum boss, but the Lord Admiral seems to be the highest Navy rank - and both can have a seat in the Imperial Senate.

Anfauglir wrote:As far as the Lord Commanders are concerned, then, I guess they make a judement call on each threat to their Segmentum as it reveals itself as to who to appoint to take care of it - be it an experienced Militant General or High Admiral.

Aye, I believe that makes sense. Most of the time it'd probably be a Guard veteran (or rather, some influential noble with sufficient knowledge of strategy and tactics that had him rise through the ranks quickly enough) simply because ground battles are so much more common and important in 40k than space battles, at least this is the image you get when looking at the fluff. I suppose with space battles, it's either a question of forcing the enemy fleet into a decisive fight or simply making sure it's not a threat to your own armies. Once spatial superiority is established, most of the work falls to the ground forces, just supported by the Navy (transportation, air cover, bombardments). It'd be like WW2 in the Pacific after Midway, and planets instead of islands. Meaning: A competend Admiral may not be quite as necessary as a competent General - the Admiral will have to lay the first foundations for the campaign's success (enabling the IG to "get there"), but there will be much fewer decisive battles.

That being said, I suppose a competent Warmaster will do much consultation with fleet officers to ensure success - basically telling them his master strategy like "my troops need to get here, how do we make that possible?" and then leaving the Admirals to come up with the details?

Anfauglir wrote:If they want a "joint-forces" deal with the Astartes, I'm assuming that they can request aid (rather than demand) and that the Astartes have perogative to say no? I mean, each Chapter runs itself pretty autonamously, right? So they can pick and choose where and when they fight. Does it swing both ways, I wonder? For instance can an Astartes make demands of the Segmentum Command? Or is it a mutual relationship of cooperation?

Technically, the Astartes are subordinate to the High Lords of Terra and a Warmaster, if there is one. But Segmentum Command and/or the Navy ... hrmm. I'd guess it would be a matter of diplomacy, yeah. Regardless of who the one needing assistance is. The Marine Chapters' relative independence is stressed fairly often in the fluff, so it would seem that having a person be able to command them around should not be an everyday thing, which would suggest it's limited to the High Lords, a potential Warmaster and, of course, the Inquisition. Just a guess, tho!