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I just think this should be done. Units with the sniper rule can already designate a target and force it on them regardless of 'look out sir' etc. This is pretty simple really. It would allow people to shoot at a crew and therefore their toughness rather than the toughness of the war machine like most shooting. Kill enough crewmen (usually 2-3) and the machine is destroyed.

But they aren't crew. They are placeholders.

Edit: but that said, I don't know if it really makes much difference. Sniper is relatively rare and it's hard to see it being a mega war machine killer. Unless there's some units out there I'm not thinking off.

Well, usually only one model has sniper rule, and he gets at least 2 modifiers for sniper and long range, so I don't think anyone would waste a sniper shot on a crewman.

It might not be that useful, but it makes sense, it's an option, and doesn't have a large negative effect on the game, so I think it should be done.

I still think that the crew should b seperate to the warmachine.
So if they lose theirs, they can crew another that has lost its crew.

Yah.

Because war machines suck.

More because it gave character to the armies

Giving your crew funny hats adds character. The ability to swap wounds to them makes them a lot more dangerous and encourages mass war machines. Which is a buff way not needed and takes away character from armies. Unless "character" is defined as a crapload of machines every single game.

 DukeRustfield wrote:
Giving your crew funny hats adds character. The ability to swap wounds to them makes them a lot more dangerous and encourages mass war machines. Which is a buff way not needed and takes away character from armies. Unless "character" is defined as a crapload of machines every single game.

It's not like magic or steadfast hasn't helped to ruin this edition anyway. The effect cavalry used to have is now filled up by monstrous cavalry I think.

I mean with magic if an opponent 6 dices it and gets a good miscast result for them then they usually do a ton of damage to you and there's nothing you can do about it. It's even worse when the spell allows no saves of any kind.

My bigger problem is magic is so super random that you can't really rely on any of it at all. Usually if you're trying to do a spell combo somebody will dispel the first one. This isn't even considering some armies which can be super stupid with their magic and just destroy your magic phase.

Steadfast can be annoying but it's not super stupid unless you go deep instead of wide and spam cheap units and then yeah magic takes care of it.

So yeah war machines as cheap as they are spammed even more than they are would be super annoying.

--------------------

Whatever happened to simple unit tactics with units moving around better and flanking. I guess it all had to go the stupid route of magic, monsters and war machines carrying the day and simple movement in flanks to matter infinitely less.

 DukeRustfield wrote:
Giving your crew funny hats adds character. The ability to swap wounds to them makes them a lot more dangerous and encourages mass war machines. Which is a buff way not needed and takes away character from armies. Unless "character" is defined as a crapload of machines every single game.

No, i meant how in the old rules the Crew where seperate individual models from the warmachine. You randomised hits from shooting (1-4 warmachine, 5-6 crew). If the crew where killed thwn the machine just lay there doing nothing until it was re-crewed or destroyed. Enemy crew could even capture your guns and turn them against you if they where abandoned.
A crew couldnt leave its machine unless the machine was destroyed though, so you could not "swap wounds".

And i guess Character was the wrong word. I meant realism.

I don't know how some ogres are going to take over a flame cannon or something. And it begs the question of who recrews? An O&G army would sacrifice 3 points to bring a catapult back up, but an ogre would have to spend like 30 to bring up their cannon with 1 wound. Worth of men, that is. And random rank and file aren't going to know how to use them. An empire spearmen knows how to spear, not fire a hellblaster.

I'm sure there's room for more rules around war machines to make them more realistic. But I don't think during any wars ever cannons were being taken over and immediately turned. At the very least they had to look them over and see how much powder to use and such. They'd blow themselves apart and waste a crew.

 DukeRustfield wrote:
I don't know how some ogres are going to take over a flame cannon or something. And it begs the question of who recrews? An O&G army would sacrifice 3 points to bring a catapult back up, but an ogre would have to spend like 30 to bring up their cannon with 1 wound. Worth of men, that is. And random rank and file aren't going to know how to use them. An empire spearmen knows how to spear, not fire a hellblaster.

I'm sure there's room for more rules around war machines to make them more realistic. But I don't think during any wars ever cannons were being taken over and immediately turned. At the very least they had to look them over and see how much powder to use and such. They'd blow themselves apart and waste a crew.

Tell that to company of heroes 2 where you can re-crew an artillery piece captured or allied by throwing some of your squad on it.

In FPS games regular grunts can jump into a tank, then a helicopter, then a boat, then use their medical expertise to resurrect people.

I'm sure you can do all kinds of wacky stuff in all kinds of wacky games. In "fish" you can take cards from opposing players by asking if they have any threes, or whatever.

"Do you have any dwarf warriors?"
"Go fish"

I don't think you should be able to move crew around from machine to machine but the crew using the machines toughness was an unneeded buff to already devastating weapons.