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I have an opportunity coming up to introduce two friends to 40k. Both are early forties (like me) and have never played tabletop before, but have done related things (AD&D as teenagers, WoW, scale modelling etc).

I can field up to 1500 points each side of DA and Necrons, but am thinking it will be better to start small with 500 or 750 points on a 4x4 table, and I would act as GM for them to play against each other over pizza and beer.

Any suggestions for helping things go smoothly and helping to spark an interest?

Small game, big board, simple terrain.

So in my opinion just have 5+ cover "area terrain" all over (with line of site blocking too) and no random terrain attributes.

Id suggest 500 points a side as those games are much, much better even as standard in my opinion, but its up to you.

40k is pretty simple so after like 2 games they should catch on pretty quick.

In short, simple terrain, smaller battles.

And simple units, don't go with any units with extravagant rules.

as said go basic, simple units, decent terrain, but DONT skimp on points....

reason for me here being this. if you go 500 pts it COULD be over before the first 6 pack is gone. one lucky round of shooting with some bad saves and poooof game over... so it might seem short and boring. because the only impression id take away from that is well, so if i get a bit unlucky its over in 20 mins...

id say 1000 pts or so, that would allow for say... 6 units of infantry some basic vehicles etc. and if you write the lists up try and ballance them nicely so one doesnt have huuge advantages

My first game was about 800-1000 minus phisker abilities and such to simplify. Worked well. I just suplmented to level to match orks.

Play with 750 and try to ignore as many special rules as possible and avoid vehicles at first, try to keep it mostly basic stuff like hits and misses ,wounds, movement, phases.

Water it down and add complexity as you go

I think 600 points is great with basic units. I don't think one would die out too fast, and if something like that does happen then you can easily just start the game over and the players will know better the second time what not to do to die the first turn.

I would do troops, but probably not transports. Try to make the two sides seemingly even as possible. The focus then can be on game mechanics and story.

Hopefully they enjoy the setting and the hobby! Best of luck!

I wouldn´t let them play against each other the first time.
Both will be overwhelmed with questions by both sides and in the end one will lose probably diluting the experience.
I´d try to sneak in some mistakes and make them win if they work a little bit.

Thanks all, good suggestions to mull over. I'm also going to put some effort into making sure everything is painted and there is nice terrain.

Don't use building or vehicles for the first game. Too many choices.
Just use minimal units, with maybe a single special or heavy per unit. Maybe squash ~4 units per side. Having 1 biker or jump-pack squad per side might be good.
Try to keep ICs out of it too.
Don't worry about points, as long as the 2 sides are roughly similar.

The other thing I've used when introducing people is to take inspration from video games. You know how on the first levels of an FPS, you get simple tutorials like 'this is how you shoot, shoot that thing there' and similar? Try that with 40k.

Set up a pair of units (no need to worry about points) and teach the mechanics. Get one side to make a shooting attack, talking through hit/wound/save stages. Repeat for the other guy. Do the same with CC. Make an effort not to seem patronising, of course, but I've found that getting a feel for the mechanics before starting a small game can help things along.

Also, make it cool. If you're trying to get new players in you want to sell them the game, so try and keep it to painted models and terrain if possible, and just have fun.

Yeah, like in starcraft they start you off with like one unit and the level specifically teaches you how to use abilities of that unit.

In the end It's all about having fun which can be had in a lot of circumstances as long as your enjoying yourself.

If you make it not about winning then you'll have fun no matter what. (in my opinion)

I'm a strong proponent of the Games Workshop demo method: that is to say, a pair of fully-painted armies on a fully-painted table. Not something everyone can do, of course, but it enhances the game experience so much, especially for someone who's never played before. If the objective is getting people interested, you can't go wrong with putting 40k's best foot forward.

 ausYenLoWang wrote:
as said go basic, simple units, decent terrain, but DONT skimp on points....

reason for me here being this. if you go 500 pts it COULD be over before the first 6 pack is gone. one lucky round of shooting with some bad saves and poooof game over... so it might seem short and boring. because the only impression id take away from that is well, so if i get a bit unlucky its over in 20 mins...

id say 1000 pts or so, that would allow for say... 6 units of infantry some basic vehicles etc. and if you write the lists up try and ballance them nicely so one doesnt have huuge advantages

I have been introing a friend to the game and he enjoyed the 1000 point game more than the 500 point games we started off with. He also enjoyed using objectives more than just kill points. It was more strategic and he appreciated that.

I recommend 750 pts with a decent number of LoS blockers. Ignore most of the setup rules and random terrain etc. Just setup a fun board, play 3 objectives near the middle of the board, and split the board into fourths for deployment.

If you play >750 pts you likely will not finish the game and it will be too much for the new players to actually keep track of. The game will be more or less you running the game on all three sides with the other two players saying what they want to do. So be prepared to either know the rules off the top of your head or just simplify the rule to keep the flow.

I recommend that you limit the high toughness and high AV MCs and vehicles but try to mix in some vehicles, terminators, and special weapons. If you make everyone troops with basic weapons it will be boring. Psykers are usually best avoided the first few games as they are more complex.

I would only add that you should be honest about the game of 40k and GWs practices so they are going in eyes wide open. I say this because you said they are friends and if they go in thinking that 40k is a balanced game and/or that GW is trying to fix problems and releases new stuff to update bad/broken rules they very likely be in for a disappointment and it may strain the friendship since 40k costs quite a bit.

I say this because when I started in 4th edition and saw problems or had concerns I often heard things like "you should have seen it in x edition" or "GW is better releasing dexes", etc and I had the impression that they were having some bumps but things would get a lot better - which wasn't exactly correct and I found that annoying.

If they understand the problems with the game and company and are fine with that then good luck and I hope it works out for you!

 Ventus wrote:
I would only add that you should be honest about the game of 40k and GWs practices so they are going in eyes wide open. I say this because you said they are friends and if they go in thinking that 40k is a balanced game and/or that GW is trying to fix problems and releases new stuff to update bad/broken rules they very likely be in for a disappointment and it may strain the friendship since 40k costs quite a bit.

I understand your point, but I doubt we'll get into the politics and tournament balance. I doubt also that they'll run out and buy DV - best I'm hoping for is they'll have a good time, and we'll make it a regular thing where they use my armies. If they do go nuts for it and start collecting, I guess we can have the balance discussion then!

My vote:

Have them play each other while you GM and give pointers. Stick with the basics while ignoring all of the special rules (exa: necrons reanimation protocols, special HQ abilities, warlord traits, etc).

Quite frankly I'd probably even forgo counting points at all and instead just put two units of troops, a vehicle and an HQ per side. Set all of the troops to have basic marine stats. The vehicle should be a troop transport. Basic marine type HQ with maybe 1 special ability.

The main thing you are trying to get across is the basics of move, shoot, assault. That is PLENTY for a first time out and they are going to have lots of questions. I'd expect it to take an hour or so.

My first game was 500 points, 1 HQ, and 2 troops, and I played against the GW store manager, after a painting tutorial, and I'd already explained that I'd already played Space Marine and was familiar with Starcraft II. That was quick and dirty, and we didn't do dangerous terrain at the time, or night fighting. (I wiped him off the table).

He set up both armies. My bf got about the same experience a couple of days later. His brother got a roughly 1000 point game with more specialized units after hearing us talk about 40k for a few months, and watching other people play in the store, and skimming through a codex. None of these games were objective based, it was basically slay the warlord/wipe the other army.

I'd say stick to something about 500 to 1000 points. I'd stay away from psykers for a few games, since it's a bit more complicated. Assaulting is also a bit complicated, but if they really want to get in there and melee, go for it.

You might want to talk a little bit about what makes the different armies special, as I still had a warlord trait and specialist weapons when I played but it was the simpler ones.

I don't have vehicles at all, since I play 'nids, so I don't know when you really want to introduce those rules...I picked up the vehicle basics when my store started kill teams, a few weeks after I played my first game.

I've introduced a few new players to the game in the past few months, all to 2nd edition. So far all loving it. Money was a factor, they have all picked up the a rule book and codex for under £5, and we only need a couple of squads each.
We've had several prospective players, mostly youngsters, come to the club in the last year to play 40k. We showed them 6th ed, which they loved, but once it comes round to buying into the game they don't come back...

 ruprecht wrote:
I have an opportunity coming up to introduce two friends to 40k. Both are early forties (like me) and have never played tabletop before, but have done related things (AD&D as teenagers, WoW, scale modelling etc).

I can field up to 1500 points each side of DA and Necrons, but am thinking it will be better to start small with 500 or 750 points on a 4x4 table, and I would act as GM for them to play against each other over pizza and beer.

Any suggestions for helping things go smoothly and helping to spark an interest?

I'd say go for the 750 point ball park. Besides that, just give them some fun, avoid the too complicated details, and let them have some fun with some pizza and beer (and avoid drinking yourself, well, not too much so you can watch as they become increasingly ballsy in the game)

 tommse wrote:
I wouldn´t let them play against each other the first time.
Both will be overwhelmed with questions by both sides and in the end one will lose probably diluting the experience.
I´d try to sneak in some mistakes and make them win if they work a little bit.

Strongly disagree with this, one of the first things most new people will be doing is learning about how to play the game and WHY you do such stuff. If you do random gak like firing flamers at Barges and Lascannons at warriors, it will just throw them a curveball on what they are trying to pick up. Making the whole thing one confusing mess if they try to wrap their head around what works. They will either like the game or they won't, and if you do play verse them and beat them, it might be exactly what they need to want to pick up and try again. Or build an army of their own.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My first game was 500 points, with about 4 different units per side. This was good, had time to ask the questions I wanted to and think about what to do with the information my informative opponent was giving me, without turning the game into a long drawn out debacle that eventually goes for 4 hours and makes me lose interest.

I would recommend trying to replicate the same. Let them play against each other, and spoonfeed both of them only if they ask such questions. Don't point out decisions that they may want to make on their own, but do tell them what the Lascannon's role is, and if he asks what heavy armor his opponent has, show him. If he wants to know why not to shoot Lascannons at infantry when it will surely kill anything it hits, explain to him. This will give an open game to both players, where you aren't dictating their movements, but the rules and their lack of knowledge isn't the thing holding them back from having fun.

So the guys just left after their first game. 750 DA vs Necrons, 7ed with TacOs. They took a side each while I refereed and that went really well. All they had to do was make the tactical decisions, and I took care of all the looking up tables and telling them the pros and cons of each decision.

Everything on the table did something useful, it ended 7-5 on VP for the DA victory.

Remains to be seen if they will pick it up for a rematch, but it seemed to go well.

*edit* oh and no pizza, as it doesn't mix well with painted minis. We had a curry beforehand, and beers during.

 ruprecht wrote:
Everything on the table did something useful, it ended 7-5 on VP for the DA victory.

looks like the referee got some fix 'behind the curtains'

Good thing they liked it!