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Hi,necron player here, my friend is playing vanilla space marines as salamenders
And he says my doomsday ark is too strong and a real pain to counter
That and my royal court that i field with 5 harbringer of destruction most of the time

I would like to have ideas from experienced players of Vanilla SM

I know he uses
Centurion x3
Rhinosx2
Stonetalonx2
Drop pod x1
Snipers
Tactical sm devastator sm
Assault sm
And terminators of course
Oh and a veteran squad

He has gotten a land raider a stormraven and a dreadnough since last time a played against him
We mostly play 1500 pts games

And i change my list every game but mostly often use doomsday cannon destructek and doomscythe
Others are filling and often different

Deathmarks
C'tan
Immortal
Warriors
Annihilation barge
Wraiths
Scarabs

Thx for the help im sure we will be having much more fun once the one sided victory feeling wores off

I have a Doomsday Ark in my own necron force and I can tell you what always ruins his day;

Drop Pod melta squads. I don't know the exact squad name cos I don't have the SM codex, but I think it's sternguard or some other squad that can fill up with Meltas. They just drop-pod next to the Doomsday Ark and bang, it's gone :/ Happens to me every time.

I will tell him that, if there's anybody with other ideas please share

Otto's response is pretty dead on for the army he is playing. Other than him taking your model and hiding it while your not looking that is a pretty good suggestion for your friend.

If he wants to be really awesome he can grab a MOTF with conversion beamer and snipe your doomsday ark from across the table and hope for a good penetration roll.

Nah, just stick with the Melta Drop Pod.
If he's having trouble with the Destruct-tek Court he should pick up another Drop Pod and fill it with Flamers. Park it right next to the Court, if they all stick together. Should solve his problem.

Well he seems to say he dosnt want to spend point to deal with it, he says he will use his points for centurion instead of a disposable squad

He also says he will drop things with his stormraven

Okay, well that's his choice... but a suicide melta drop squad is good against virtually any army.

As a DA player, Drop Pod Melta is the way to go. Even if he only lands 1 pen hit, it's enough to make it killable by nearly everything else. I'm not terribly familiar with Salamanders, but don't they get bonuses to melta and flamer weapons?

Marines - and especially Salamanders - have so many options to bust armor that it's kind of odd that he can't figure out how to do it.

Several of the units that he already takes can do the job, even:
Las/Missile centurions would wreck an ark. Easy. Different story if he's going with grav/bolters, though.
The normal Assault Cannon/Skyhammer stormtalon configuration can crack an ark if it gets lucky.
Lascannon devastators will pop one no problem.
Assault Marine sarge with a melta bomb can do it.
If his terminators have thunder hammers and are teleporting in, they will wreck face on that thing.

Both the land raider and storm raven are too costly pointswise for what they provide, especially with how easily necrons can delete them.

Other things he can consider:
He already has his 3 FA slots filled with stormtalons and an assault squad, so a squad of MM Attack Bikes is out. However, since he's taking snipers, he can take a dedicated landspeeder storm with a multi-melta and deep-strike it. Not likely to do a ton, but it's cheap pointswise.
Another fun option, and one that's incredibly fluffy for Sallies, is to drop-pod in an ironclad dred with a multi-melta on it. Those are always hilarious.

He's running Salamanders. The melta pod list discussed above works better for them than anyone else!

Also good ideas are bike squads (relenetless multimelta on attack bike, plus relentless grav), drop pod dreads with multimeltas (ven dreads hit on 2s) or... his centurions!

Hi everyone,
I'm "the other guy"

1-
Didn't say it was "too strong", I said that it was "f*****g strong". On which he answered "Its not that strong".

As we both started playing a few months ago and with the Doomsday being about the first vehicule we had on the field, it was a big step.
I have many more option that I had a month ago now.



2-
The list "TheWhite" gave isn't what I run, but more what I have available.

My current available:
HQ:
Captain
Captain Termi
Librarian

Elite
10x Sternguard veteran
15x Termi
10x Assault Termi
1x Dreadnought

Troops:
About every variation available to SM

Fast Attack
15x Assault SM
2x Stormtalon

Other:
1x Rhino
1x Land Raider
1x Drop pod
3x Centurion
1x Storm Raven
1x Devastator Squad

3-
We only played twice since I have the drop pod.
Once I loaded it with a devastator squad, who did nothing.( I was out of melta range)
The other time with vanguard veteran ("Count as") which dealt a good job, but wasnt able to kill it.
I have yet to try my dreadnought agaisnt it, or my landraider, or my stormraven, or my new termi with missille, or centurion loaded with missille, or....

4-

Crazy Jay wrote:
I'm not terribly familiar with Salamanders, but don't they get bonuses to melta and flamer weapons?

They have flamer bonus, and if you have the chapter master, his unit get a bonus to meltas.

 FL5 wrote:
it's kind of odd that he can't figure out how to do it.

No that I can't figure it out, more like... its a pain in the *** to deal with, and at some time, I didnt had enought in my army to deal with it.

 FL5 wrote:

Several of the units that he already takes can do the job, even:
Las/Missile centurions would wreck an ark. Easy. Different story if he's going with grav/bolters, though.

Yeah, last time I'vre tried that, he one shoted all my centurions with 1 attack from his doom scythe (Gotta learn to at least put them in triangle formation )

 FL5 wrote:

The normal Assault Cannon/Skyhammer stormtalon configuration can crack an ark if it gets lucky.

I had a problem getting them in a few time
Currently looking for some alternative to get better reserve roll.
Imperial Bastion are in my options.

 FL5 wrote:

Lascannon devastators will pop one no problem.

If he didnt pop them first

 FL5 wrote:

Assault Marine sarge with a melta bomb can do it.
If his terminators have thunder hammers and are teleporting in, they will wreck face on that thing.

Which neither can attack the turn they deepstrike if I'm not mistaken?


But yeah, always open to new idea.

There's nothing suicidal about drop pod marines, especially salamander drop pod melta guys.

They'll probably die, but that's just because they're close. In the mean time, they're going to royally screw up someones day by being in their face and not allowing them as much freedom of movement.

If you're not willing to kamikaze the odd unit for the sake of the rest of your army, maybe Salamanders aren't for you...

Personal recommendation: get another drop pod, stick something with melta in it.

And for crap's sake, deploy your guys behind cover so you don't get them killed by the worst vehicle in the Necron codex on turn 1!

He already does all that but i can someway controle the way he can move just by having the ark covering a lane

Well, don't know what to tell you then, man.
When one of the best anti-vehicle SM factions is having trouble with one of the worst vehicles in the Necron codex, there's gotta be something wrong somewhere.

drows wrote:

Crazy Jay wrote:
I'm not terribly familiar with Salamanders, but don't they get bonuses to melta and flamer weapons?

They have flamer bonus, and if you have the chapter master, his unit get a bonus to meltas.

He's not a Chapter Master (that's Tu'Shan), and it's not his unit - it's the entire detachment. That's a very important difference.

drows wrote:

FL5 wrote:Lascannon devastators will pop one no problem.

If he didnt pop them first

First of all, you shouldn't have only one unit in your entire army capable of killing a Doomsday Ark. Second, with a four-foot range, those Devastators don't need to spend long in a Rhino to get shooting at it.

drows wrote:

FL5 wrote:Assault Marine sarge with a melta bomb can do it.
If his terminators have thunder hammers and are teleporting in, they will wreck face on that thing.

Which neither can attack the turn they deepstrike if I'm not mistaken?

They can't, but how exactly would Necrons get through an entire squad of 2+/3++ Terminators in a single turn? Assault Marines aren't exactly made of paper, either.

Combi-melta Sternguard in a drop pod are good against just about any high-value target, especially with Vulkan He'stan in the army. You need to accept that units are always at risk of dying, and that they only need to contribute their points value or greater to the game to be worthwhile.

drows wrote:

FL5 wrote:The normal Assault Cannon/Skyhammer stormtalon configuration can crack an ark if it gets lucky.

Which neither can attack the turn they deepstrike if I'm not mistaken?
I had a problem getting them in a few time

Is the Doomsday Ark really ruining your entire army before you can bring in the fliers? This is another point for the Drop Pod squad - with the Drop Pod Assault rule (page 99), you can drop on your first turn and destroy the Ark that seems to be giving you so much trouble. You could put something scarier in the pod, like a Dreadnought, but bear in mind that the entire Necron army will likely do its best to destroy it as soon as possible.

Drop pod tax marines with a melt a and combo melt a that has a free MC, or both are MC if Vulcan is in the list.

2 melt a hits should explode an open top vehicle. If it gets really lucky it takes a pen and loses quantum shielded.

The only defense it to junk and run away 18 inches since it can't snap fire the pie plate

 skoffs wrote:
Well, don't know what to tell you then, man.
When one of the best anti-vehicle SM factions is having trouble with one of the worst vehicles in the Necron codex, there's gotta be something wrong somewhere.

Well we both started a couple of months ago, hes not the only one saying the doomsday ark is a pain, but it might change with all the new stuff he got, well i dont plan on letting myself beaten but we learn new things each games,

nobody in our town played warhammer before so we are starting from scratches with the rulebook and we got to 7players, we might get 2 other to join up soon . , since we dont have reference when we have question while playing we often play the wrong way(we are both making lots of research so that the game gets played the way it was meant to be)

(example; last saturday we played against a tyranids player he told me he had acid blood on his warriors at the end of the game drows looks at his codex and says hey your warriors cant have acid blood they can have toxic blood or something like that)

thats the kind of thing that happends often, but the more we learn the more things like that get avoided and i still think that no army is too strong they only have theire respective ways of being played

Againts someone who only have a quarter of all the option of his faction in his army even a doomsday can seem freaking powerful,
And our next game should be challenging i think



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I did make the post in the begining but it seems to me that theres too many ways to deal with it xD

skoffs wrote:If you're not willing to kamikaze the odd unit for the sake of the rest of your army, maybe Salamanders aren't for you...

Never said that I'm not willing to.
Just prefer not to (But who would ? (ork....))

 Frozen Ocean wrote:


He's not a Chapter Master (that's Tu'Shan), and it's not his unit - it's the entire detachment. That's a very important difference.
.

Huge difference yeah. I'm gonna take that into account

 Frozen Ocean wrote:



First of all, you shouldn't have only one unit in your entire army capable of killing a Doomsday Ark. Second, with a four-foot range, those Devastators don't need to spend long in a Rhino to get shooting at it.

Last time I've tried to run a rhino agaisnt it, he one shot it and half the Sterguard beside it.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:


They can't, but how exactly would Necrons get through an entire squad of 2+/3++ Terminators in a single turn? Assault Marines aren't exactly made of paper, either.

Assault Termi are new to my arsenalt (Forgot they had 3++ with their shield) I'm used to run Range termi. So yeah that a good option...
As far as assault marine goes... I think agianst S9 ap1... They're paper...

Come on, man, it's only got one shot a turn!
By turn two the thing should be gone.
(now if he was running something REALLY competitive, like Sentry Pylons, THEN you would have problems)

As far as mitigating damage before you can remove it, just split your force up and keep your stuff spread apart far enough so anything he does hit before you take it out only loses an insignificant amount.

Good news everyone.
First turn, first kill.
And with a simple dreadnought.
Ok, I got lucky, but I'm gonna take it

He still got me, but it was much close this time

One shot from anything should make him use his jink then he can't shoot a blast on the next turn.

A Salamander army should be heavy on the drop pods to get their flamers and meltas in range. If you prefer other tactics try another chapter.

Yeah, doomsday arks are kind of fun, but I wouldn't say they are powerful by any means. Doomscythes are way more powerful in my book. S10 AP1 and it hits exactly what I want it to hit.

I did jink but it still got destroyed turn 1 with a single hit from lascannon