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As the header says, I am truly terrible at this game. And I would like critiques on my 1500 list. I know one thing is for sure wrong, but here's what I ran today.

Runelord - Balance rune, 2 spell breaking runes 215

Thane - Shield, Slowness x3 - 173
Dragonslayer - Snorri Spangelhelm, Swiftness, dismay. - 140 (yes I know I cant use 2 master runes, didn't know when I made the list)

26 Dwarf Warriors - Great weapons, Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer - 290 (i think this was a waste of points)
10 Thunderers - 120
10 Thunderers - 120

Cannon - 120
Cannon - 120
Gyrocopter - steamgun 80

Organ Gun - 120


From what I can tell, the thunderers are okay being cheap and shooty, and everything in the rare or special slots did well.

Out of curiosity, at 1500 points, did you see enough worthwhile targets to have taken two cannons? I wonder if, at this points level, it might have been superior to have taken only one cannon, and used the points left over to instead give (at the very least) Forging to the Cannon and Forging + Accuracy to the Organ Gun. This will result in two much more effective war machines; arguably more effective than having the second cannon.

Honestly, the Runelord at 1500 points is a complete waste. He doesn't do anything particularly better than a Runesmith, but costs 100 more points. You could just about afford two Runesmiths, both with Dispel rune effects, for the cost of the single Runelord.

Slayer heroes are cool, but they die like dogs without accomplishing much of anything, and they cost too much for what they do. They're interesting for theme, and if you like him, keep him, but 10 more rank and file will do more than the single Dragonslayer.

I personally prefer Quarrelers to Thunderers. Yes, the Thunderers have S4 Armor Piercing. On the other hand, Quarrelers have 6" more range, and the option to take Great Weapons for when the opponent gets close.

Lastly, for the BSB, rather than 3xSlowness, I'd rather have 2xSlowness + Grungni; not only does it give the unit and nearby units the ward vs shooting, it's the only way to give a ward to the BSB if he has a runic standard. This will dramatically increase the BSB's survivability.

When I get home to my Army Book, I'll post what I mean. Take from it what you like, ignore the rest.

Saldiven wrote:
Out of curiosity, at 1500 points, did you see enough worthwhile targets to have taken two cannons? I wonder if, at this points level, it might have been superior to have taken only one cannon, and used the points left over to instead give (at the very least) Forging to the Cannon and Forging + Accuracy to the Organ Gun. This will result in two much more effective war machines; arguably more effective than having the second cannon.

Honestly, the Runelord at 1500 points is a complete waste. He doesn't do anything particularly better than a Runesmith, but costs 100 more points. You could just about afford two Runesmiths, both with Dispel rune effects, for the cost of the single Runelord.

Slayer heroes are cool, but they die like dogs without accomplishing much of anything, and they cost too much for what they do. They're interesting for theme, and if you like him, keep him, but 10 more rank and file will do more than the single Dragonslayer.

I personally prefer Quarrelers to Thunderers. Yes, the Thunderers have S4 Armor Piercing. On the other hand, Quarrelers have 6" more range, and the option to take Great Weapons for when the opponent gets close.

Lastly, for the BSB, rather than 3xSlowness, I'd rather have 2xSlowness + Grungni; not only does it give the unit and nearby units the ward vs shooting, it's the only way to give a ward to the BSB if he has a runic standard. This will dramatically increase the BSB's survivability.

When I get home to my Army Book, I'll post what I mean. Take from it what you like, ignore the rest.

Honestly. It was my third game ever so I'm just learning the system lol.

for starters, you need another block of warriors, or a block of longbeards. Changing the runelord to a runesmith should get you the points needed, the thunderers are good, but, if you take quarrelers instead, better to take rangers, with the same point cost maxed out, they are a better investment. also, drop one of your cannons as well. in all, make your (shortened) list
1x runesmith
1X thane (proxy the dragonslayer)
20x warriors
20x warriors OR longbeards
10x thunderers OR rangers
10x thunderers
1x cannon
1x gyro (bomber or copter)
1x organ gun
this way, you have 2 melee blocks as opposed to 1, long beards give a Ld buff to nearby warriors, like Saldiven said, slayers are cool, but they die fast. a thane is a better investment. other then that, with this list you should be in a little better situation. As you grow think about another block of melee units, either iron breakers or another unit of 20 warriors, iron breakers are an amazing anvil to just hold off nearly any other unit.

 Brennonjw wrote:
for starters, you need another block of warriors, or a block of longbeards. Changing the runelord to a runesmith should get you the points needed, the thunderers are good, but, if you take quarrelers instead, better to take rangers, with the same point cost maxed out, they are a better investment. also, drop one of your cannons as well. in all, make your (shortened) list
1x runesmith
1X thane (proxy the dragonslayer)
20x warriors
20x warriors OR longbeards
10x thunderers OR rangers
10x thunderers
1x cannon
1x gyro (bomber or copter)
1x organ gun
this way, you have 2 melee blocks as opposed to 1, long beards give a Ld buff to nearby warriors, like Saldiven said, slayers are cool, but they die fast. a thane is a better investment. other then that, with this list you should be in a little better situation. As you grow think about another block of melee units, either iron breakers or another unit of 20 warriors, iron breakers are an amazing anvil to just hold off nearly any other unit.

I own the thane model lol. No need to proxy. Though he does look sweet. what would my comp be on the melee blocks? because my block of 5x6 6being the number of ranks, got trashed by some feral/savage orcs (not sure what it was but they died)

honestly, with the warriors,you can take great weapons AND sheilds. giving you that survivability, but at the cost of points, they got reacked because with the great weapons you have a lesser save AND you attacked last. If you cant run your warriors with both, either kit one unit out with sheilds to be your anvil and use the great weapons for flank attackes, OR get some iron breakers. they are the best anvil the dwarf army can feild. feel free to respond if you need me to explain it better

 Brennonjw wrote:
honestly, with the warriors,you can take great weapons AND sheilds. giving you that survivability, but at the cost of points, they got reacked because with the great weapons you have a lesser save AND you attacked last. If you cant run your warriors with both, either kit one unit out with sheilds to be your anvil and use the great weapons for flank attackes, OR get some iron breakers. they are the best anvil the dwarf army can feild. feel free to respond if you need me to explain it better

what size unit of ironbreakers would be a good foundation? I was going to make some irondrakes so I already have 10 able to be made.

Ironbreakers would do well in a unit of 15 for these points i'd say. Take a Runesmith instead of the Runelord and put him in with the Ironbreakers, or the Hammerers for that matter, this way the unit will Armour Piercing from the Forgefire. When more points are used, take another rank and throw in a Thane on an Oath Stone.

I wouldn't kit Warriors with great weapons and shields, at that point you'd be better of taking Longbeards or great weapon Quarrellers.

Thunderers are excellent against heavier infantry and for guarding war machines. If you are looking for flank guards then the great weapon Quarrellers would be a better selection in my experience.

If you don't want to proxy Ironbreakers then make 10 Irondrakes instead. I have found that a unit of Irondrakes this size can do quite a bit of damage in these point games.

 Mountain-Breaker wrote:
Ironbreakers would do well in a unit of 15 for these points i'd say. Take a Runesmith instead of the Runelord and put him in with the Ironbreakers, or the Hammerers for that matter, this way the unit will Armour Piercing from the Forgefire. When more points are used, take another rank and throw in a Thane on an Oath Stone.

I wouldn't kit Warriors with great weapons and shields, at that point you'd be better of taking Longbeards or great weapon Quarrellers.

Thunderers are excellent against heavier infantry and for guarding war machines. If you are looking for flank guards then the great weapon Quarrellers would be a better selection in my experience.

If you don't want to proxy Ironbreakers then make 10 Irondrakes instead. I have found that a unit of Irondrakes this size can do quite a bit of damage in these point games.

I think I'll try some different warrior squads and thunderers

Personally, if I'm looking for something to kill heavy infantry or heavy cavalry, Organ Guns and/or Irondrakes are superior to Thunderers.

Since I have to pay the "core tax" anyway, if I'm taking a ranged unit in that slot, it's going to be GW Quarrelers, every time. The AP on the Thunderers will only result in an extra wound or two per round of shooting against most troops, but the Quarrelers should get an extra round of shooting because of the added range, and will be far more effective in close combat, which will inevitably happen.

Saldiven wrote:
Personally, if I'm looking for something to kill heavy infantry or heavy cavalry, Organ Guns and/or Irondrakes are superior to Thunderers.

Since I have to pay the "core tax" anyway, if I'm taking a ranged unit in that slot, it's going to be GW Quarrelers, every time. The AP on the Thunderers will only result in an extra wound or two per round of shooting against most troops, but the Quarrelers should get an extra round of shooting because of the added range, and will be far more effective in close combat, which will inevitably happen.

I dropped the thunderers because I was running so much core already, ran them as irondrakes. Ran a squad of 20. I do believe I will keep running the double longbeards, they seemed to do really well.

Longbeards are fantastic at taking on other infantry. Warriors are better if you want something to absorb shooting/magic and still be able to fight. Also, against WS3 T3 or less, Warriors are just as good as Longbeards, but for less points.

Warriors take great weapons, period. Shields just aren't worth it.

Longbeards can take shields or great weapons. If you aren't planning on running Hammerers (which you should, at some point), give some of them great weapons for S6. Otherwise, WS5 S4 and shields is solid.

Quarrelers with great weapons: easily the best all-around Core unit.

With your BSB, take the Master Rune of Grungi. Always. Because it's stupidly good.

I'd consider dropping the Irondrakes down to 15 or so and getting two Runes of Slowness on their banner. That's usually one turn of shooting at long range, one Stand and Shoot! reaction, another turn of shooting at close range, and another Stand and Shoot! charge reaction. Aaand then they get to fight your WS5 S4 4+/6+ troops.
Add in the Warden with the Torpedo when you can. It's a combat support/organ gun/bolt thrower unit. Pretty awesome.

Those Savage Orcs can be brutal. My answer to them? Gyrocopters, Hammerers, and counter-charges.

Warpsolution wrote:
Longbeards are fantastic at taking on other infantry. Warriors are better if you want something to absorb shooting/magic and still be able to fight. Also, against WS3 T3 or less, Warriors are just as good as Longbeards, but for less points.

Warriors take great weapons, period. Shields just aren't worth it.

Longbeards can take shields or great weapons. If you aren't planning on running Hammerers (which you should, at some point), give some of them great weapons for S6. Otherwise, WS5 S4 and shields is solid.

Quarrelers with great weapons: easily the best all-around Core unit.

With your BSB, take the Master Rune of Grungi. Always. Because it's stupidly good.

I'd consider dropping the Irondrakes down to 15 or so and getting two Runes of Slowness on their banner. That's usually one turn of shooting at long range, one Stand and Shoot! reaction, another turn of shooting at close range, and another Stand and Shoot! charge reaction. Aaand then they get to fight your WS5 S4 4+/6+ troops.
Add in the Warden with the Torpedo when you can. It's a combat support/organ gun/bolt thrower unit. Pretty awesome.

Those Savage Orcs can be brutal. My answer to them? Gyrocopters, Hammerers, and counter-charges.

still alot to learn with fantasy, and dwarves. But atm I think I like it more than 40k. It's less about "hey I got 2+ rerollables on everything and wont die" and more about the game itself. Movement seems to be the biggest difference. You cant just move into cover and hold objectives. You gotta actually think about it. Still getting used to the modifiers on all the dice rolls. But I assume that just takes time.


I'll try out hammerers next game if I remember. I think I'll take slowness on irondrakes. That seems like a good idea.

Runes of Slowness on Irondrakes is just so stupidly good. It's hilarious when an opponent ends up getting shot four times (twice during shooting phases and twice during Stand and Shoot) when they thought they'd be in combat after the first shot.

@Apaztick: Yes, one of the biggest differences in game play between 40K and WHFB is the importance of the movement phase in WHFB. Even a small mistaken in how you place your frontage in WHFB can have game changing impact.

Something I've given thought to in the past: Longbeards, Hammerers, and Ironbreakers. All great units. All fairly expensive.
It's safe to assume that you won't be able to have a good sized block of all three, since you'll want some other toys in your army, too. So then the question becomes which ones do you take.

Longbeards can function like either, depending on how you equip them.
The thing is, they're 1pt cheaper than Ironbreakers, and are at -1Ld, -1 armour, -1 Parry (except on that first round), and gain ItP and Grumblers.
But compared to Hammerers, you're paying the same cost for -1A, losing Stubborn and--the most important to me--losing that extra 25pts on a runic banner. And Grungi, Valaya, and Groth are all amazing runes, and all cost over 50pts.

So, overall, I'd say you're best off running Longbeards with shields and Hammerers, instead of Longbeards with great weapons and Ironbreakers.

...granted, all of that is moot if you don't want an anvil like Ironbreakers/Longbeards. Great weapon Warriors are a solid way to fill up Core, too. And Quarrelers are still the #1 Overall.

In the Longbeards vs Hammerers comparison, you're also losing one point of armor save and the perpetual 5+ parry.

Saldiven wrote:
In the Longbeards vs Hammerers comparison, you're also losing one point of armor save and the perpetual 5+ parry.

Warpsolution wrote:
.The thing is, they're 1pt cheaper than Ironbreakers, and are at -1Ld, -1 armour, -1 Parry (except on that first round), and gain ItP and Grumblers

...yup. Got it.

Duh. Apparently, I can't read.