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I'm still getting used to Fantasy. Any advice would be much appreciated.


Chaos Lord
- Chaos Warshrine
- Soul Feeder
- Chalice of Chaos
- Hellfire Sword

Wulfrik The Wanderer

Chaos Sorceror
- Level Two
- Mark Of Nurgle
- Chaos Familiar
- Chalice of Chaos

Warriors Of Chaos *2
- Champion
- Musician
- Standard Bearer
- Shields
- Additional Hand Weapon
- 14 Models

Chaos Marauders
- Light armour
- 20 models

Gorebeast Chariots *2

As a note, you can't take two Chalices.

What are you looking to achieve with this list, specifically? It's going to need a fair amount of reworking, but the advice I give will depend on your goals and what seems interesting to you.

why can't I take two gorebeasts?
as to what I'm aiming for I'm trying to give myself the best chances of rolling 12 and getting a demon prince or at least a few nice buffs. mostly using models I like the look of actually

 Nevzara wrote:
why can't I take two gorebeasts?
as to what I'm aiming for I'm trying to give myself the best chances of rolling 12 and getting a demon prince or at least a few nice buffs. mostly using models I like the look of actually

You can take two Gorebeasts. You can't take two Chalice of Chaos, though.

Going for aesthetics is awesome, and stick with that! But let's see if we can improve the list without really changing those aesthetics. First up, you want marks. Which of the chaos gods appeals to you? There's a few different ways to go depending on that.

For the warshrine, DO NOT fall into the trap of trying to roll 12s. This is one thing I've got a hard line on when it comes to list building. The odds are terrible compared to what you have to invest, and it turns every game either heavily in your favor (when it works) or screws you over because you spent so many points on it for nothing (which is most of the time). Don't do it.

However, if you like the idea of the warshrine handing out buffs and treat the occasional 12 as a nice perk, then we're on to something. We could do an infantry-focused list with some Chosen if that appeals to you.

How attached are you to Wulfrik and Marauders?

Also, the Chaos Lord is going to come off the shrine. He wants to be in the middle of things, the shrine wants to lurch up behind and maybe hold something off for a while at most.

Ok cool, the Marauders don't matter to me at all but I really like Wulfrik as a character hunter, his law is awesome and the model looks great.
as to the marks, Nurgle is probably the most useful right but I don't like the whole plague thing aesthetically. Is Khorne playable?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So i read your guide. Should I run MoN GW blocks and let the gorebeasts eat through the smaller infantry?

 Nevzara wrote:
Ok cool, the Marauders don't matter to me at all but I really like Wulfrik as a character hunter, his law is awesome and the model looks great.
as to the marks, Nurgle is probably the most useful right but I don't like the whole plague thing aesthetically. Is Khorne playable?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So i read your guide. Should I run MoN GW blocks and let the gorebeasts eat through the smaller infantry?

Khorne is absolutely playable. I love Khorne myself and will generally take it over Nurgle for infantry just because I love the blender of doom it can make. Nurgle is great for sure, but it's not always the 'most useful'.

I wouldn't run two giant MoN GW blocks. It's a bit overkill. Instead I'd perhaps run a block of 18 MoK warriors with halberds and a block of 12 MoN warriors with GW. The MoK block is a more general purpose murder machine while the MoN GW is a little more specialized. That should be enough points to cover core, especially when combined with the marauders that we're about to cover.

I'm not really a fan of Wulfrik or Marauders, but if you're in love with the model I'd definitely say to try and make him work for you. I would arm the Marauders with GWs and give them MoK. Make sure the block is big enough (20 is minimum) to take a few casualties, but then you'll have a reasonably scary bit of infantry that's popping in where you need them. If all goes well with the dice, at least.

So at this point you've got a lot of points sunk into core. WoC is blessed with pretty awesome core, but our Special and Rares are even better. Do you want to try the warshrine out with some Chosen? Does anything else in the book catch your eye? If you nix one block of warriors and keep the 18-24 MoK with halberds, you could probably squeeze in a block of 18 Chosen of Khorne with a Warshrine of Tzeentch. That then creates a problem of where you're putting your sorceror, though. Decisions decisions. So next big question, do you want to go the warshrine route or try something else?

I like juggernauts and knights but not much in the rare section sticks out. The shrine seams like a good powerhouse to centre my army around but could be swapped for warp beast or something if you don't think it'd work. I think I'll keep wulfrik and his buddies for now.

Maybe ditch the sorcerers for a sorcerer lord and put him on the shrine. Then put the chaos lord in a juggernaut and run him with cavalry?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also what's an average point size in WHFB?

 Nevzara wrote:
I like juggernauts and knights but not much in the rare section sticks out. The shrine seams like a good powerhouse to centre my army around but could be swapped for warp beast or something if you don't think it'd work. I think I'll keep wulfrik and his buddies for now.

Maybe ditch the sorcerers for a sorcerer lord and put him on the shrine. Then put the chaos lord in a juggernaut and run him with cavalry?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also what's an average point size in WHFB?

Skullcrushers are certainly fantastic. But let's stick to a theme for now. Here's what I'd try if you wanted around what you started with aesthetically for 2000 points:

Sorceror Lord of Tzeentch on Chaos Warshrine
- Lore of Metal
- Enchanted Shield
- Talisman of Preservation
- Chaos Familiar
- Third Eye of Tzeentch

Wulfrik with 20 Marauders of Khorne (run 7 wide)
- Great Weapons
- Musician

12x Chaos Warriors of Nurgle (run 6 wide)
- Great Weapons
- Shields
- Musician
- Standard Bearer

5x Chaos Warhounds (no upgrades)

23x Chosen of Khorne (run 6 wide)
- Halberds
- Shields
- Musician
- Standard
- Champion

Exalted Hero of Khorne (run with the Chosen)
- Battle Standard Bearer
- Halberd
- Helm of Many Eyes
- Scaled Skin
- Ironcurse Icon

Lore of Metal with a level 4 and Chaos Familiar should guarantee you all the awesome buffs. Putting +1 to hit on your block of Chosen is HILARIOUS, for example. Cutting down opposing weapon skill is also hilarious, because WS3 will go to WS2 and hit your Chosen on 5s, and your 12 warriors on 6s. You can use the extra armor to help protect against shooting or give your Chosen a 2+ armor save while they slice and dice with halberds. You've got the shrine still, which will help your Chosen get a solid buff at the start of the game and it's fun to throw 6 dice at early on with no consequence when you don't need to start churning out your Metal buffs. Your sorceror is nigh-unkillable, just watch out for combat resolution from big blocks charging in. You get your Wulfrik to come in and hopefully disrupt things from one side with a solid block of Marauders. And finally, you get an Exalted Hero BSB that will absolutely RIP AND TEAR just about anyone he comes into contact with, while sporting a 1+ armor save. He'll murder the bejeezus out of any champion, and most opposing heroes... and maybe even some lords. Just watch out for anything that can get by his armor. The Chosen block has a champion if you need to fling him at someone that can cut through armor with either high strength or some special ability. The last 5 points went to the Ironcurse Icon, to at least give some defense to war machines like Doom Divers (HISS) and cannons.

This list is on the slow side for WoC, but it would be ridiculously brutal once it reaches combat. Just be wary of getting shot up, which is usually a downside to WoC but especially so in a slower list like this. Use the warhounds to grant hard cover against BS-based shooting, and keep them close enough to your general and the BSB to keep them from running. They'll likely be dead before ever hitting combat, and that's fine. They're terrible in combat anyway. You just want them for everything leading UP to combat.

As for point values, 2000 is popular. 2500 is also popular. These are the two big ones, and it's where the whole system really comes together. Lower or higher creates weirdness to varying degrees.

That list sounds brutal, I'll definitely try it out. Thank you so much for the help.