Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So rumors have been pretty big that Dark Eldar will be the next Codex to drop (Could be good or bad).

What do you guys expect/want/dread to happen?

Personally I think it would be cool for the assault elements of a Wych cult to get a little more viable, I understand they make great anti-vehicle but I'd like to be able to kill troops and live the next turn

P.S Don't nerf the Venom!

Dread- harlequins will be dropped, the next eldar codex will also seem them dropped. they will be fleshed out in a dataslate as their own detachment types.

Dread- I love mandrakes, the models I mean. They will gain another special rule and drop in cost by 2 points but will still be terrible as the thing they need, either letting an IC start with them infiltrating, or letting their squad leader (nightfiend) have a pain token from start, will not happen.

Dread- Assault will still be non viable, leaving dark eldar as still only having a few builds that are viable with regards to shooting, since the thing dark eldar need to make assault viable will not be given. There will be increased variability in unit options, and formation options, but they will only mock you with how good they could be if dark eldar could get a save versus overwatch shooting, or some form of run+assault.

Expect- Baron, Duke, Malys, Kher, will be gone. Kherudekarh or whatever no one will miss since he is terrible. Despite existing in 2 editions he never received a model, and in this edition he is arguably much worse than last.

Expect- void raven will be dropped.

Expect- standardization of cost of heavy /special weapons/ upgrades across all models.

Expect- webway portal to be gone as an upgrade, instead a certain detachment/formation will allow you to deep strike webway portals onto the table at some point.

Want- Plastic coven troops, plastic grotesques

want- price decrease on most models

Want- talos/chronos to be able to be taken in units of 1-3 per slot.

I don't see how they can drop so many IC from the rosters. Does not leave many options.
For instance Baron and Duke are HUGE for a lot of builds.

They could give the webway portals back and hilarity would ensue, however overwatch is and will be a problem.

If they don't want a character to be dropped they have to make a model for him/her, it's as easy as that.

Didn't they made a special character out of the stock thunderwolflord? They could do something similar with Kheradruakh. Just nominate the most special looking guy, the one with the sickle for example to be Kheradruakh and you are done.

I would definitely build plastic Wracks if they look cool/similar enough to the old ones, so they don't look to out of place with my other coven stuff.

The problem with the Kheradruakh is that he can't actually be attached to other Mandrakes.
Wracks have always looked good, need to make plastic Incubi as well.

The Webway Portal will almost assuredly be a relic, just like the portalglyph.

I expect the Baron, the Duke, and at least Malys to be dropped (sadly), and maybe Khadrukh. That leaves Vecht (who will probably become a LoW), Urien, Drahzar and Lelith in addition to the base Archon, Succubus and Haemonculus Ancient. I also expect Haemonculi to be turned into a 1-4 non-compulsory HQ unit ala Tech-Marines and Commissars.

The Orks have only four special character HQ's, including Gazzy, so Deldar getting cut down to just the four mentioned above matches the 7th edition status quo.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
The Webway Portal will almost assuredly be a relic, just like the portalglyph.

I expect the Baron, the Duke, and at least Malys to be dropped (sadly), and maybe Khadrukh. That leaves Vecht (who will probably become a LoW), Urien, Drahzar and Lelith in addition to the base Archon, Succubus and Haemonculus Ancient. I also expect Haemonculi to be turned into a 1-4 non-compulsory HQ unit ala Tech-Marines and Commissars.

The Orks have only four special character HQ's, including Gazzy, so Deldar getting cut down to just the four mentioned above matches the 7th edition status quo.

What your saying makes since, its just that all the IC are special in there own way and deserve models I feel like. Besides the mandrake you can take him lol.

 CShaffer wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
The Webway Portal will almost assuredly be a relic, just like the portalglyph.

I expect the Baron, the Duke, and at least Malys to be dropped (sadly), and maybe Khadrukh. That leaves Vecht (who will probably become a LoW), Urien, Drahzar and Lelith in addition to the base Archon, Succubus and Haemonculus Ancient. I also expect Haemonculi to be turned into a 1-4 non-compulsory HQ unit ala Tech-Marines and Commissars.

The Orks have only four special character HQ's, including Gazzy, so Deldar getting cut down to just the four mentioned above matches the 7th edition status quo.

What your saying makes since, its just that all the IC are special in there own way and deserve models I feel like. Besides the mandrake you can take him lol.

Orks lost ons if special guys that deserved models. Wazdakka anyone?

 CShaffer wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
The Webway Portal will almost assuredly be a relic, just like the portalglyph.

I expect the Baron, the Duke, and at least Malys to be dropped (sadly), and maybe Khadrukh. That leaves Vecht (who will probably become a LoW), Urien, Drahzar and Lelith in addition to the base Archon, Succubus and Haemonculus Ancient. I also expect Haemonculi to be turned into a 1-4 non-compulsory HQ unit ala Tech-Marines and Commissars.

The Orks have only four special character HQ's, including Gazzy, so Deldar getting cut down to just the four mentioned above matches the 7th edition status quo.

What your saying makes since, its just that all the IC are special in there own way and deserve models I feel like. Besides the mandrake you can take him lol.

No, I agree with you. I don't want any of the HQ's to go away (well, sans Khadrukh, could care less lol), especially Malys, because she has great fluff and is one of the better female characters in the franchise.

It sucks how much of this comes down to the models and GW's butthurt about Chapterhouse. Orks have 4 SC's, Space Wolves have eight- and all eight of them happen to have models.

Do you think they would make Vect better if he is a LOW?
I like Malys fluff, but Duke would be the biggest hit I think. He is such a solid HQ I feel.

I the character is one that everybody already has built their own then you can pretty much just say good bye. GW wants you to buy new models not use old ones.

 CShaffer wrote:
Do you think they would make Vect better if he is a LOW?
I like Malys fluff, but Duke would be the biggest hit I think. He is such a solid HQ I feel.

I could see Vect being added with his dais as a LOW, following in the footsteps of Logan Grimmar + sleigh.

blaktoof wrote:
Dread- harlequins will be dropped, the next eldar codex will also seem them dropped. they will be fleshed out in a dataslate as their own detachment types.

Dread- I love mandrakes, the models I mean. They will gain another special rule and drop in cost by 2 points but will still be terrible as the thing they need, either letting an IC start with them infiltrating, or letting their squad leader (nightfiend) have a pain token from start, will not happen.

Dread- Assault will still be non viable, leaving dark eldar as still only having a few builds that are viable with regards to shooting, since the thing dark eldar need to make assault viable will not be given. There will be increased variability in unit options, and formation options, but they will only mock you with how good they could be if dark eldar could get a save versus overwatch shooting, or some form of run+assault.

Expect- Baron, Duke, Malys, Kher, will be gone. Kherudekarh or whatever no one will miss since he is terrible. Despite existing in 2 editions he never received a model, and in this edition he is arguably much worse than last.

Expect- void raven will be dropped.

Expect- standardization of cost of heavy /special weapons/ upgrades across all models.

Expect- webway portal to be gone as an upgrade, instead a certain detachment/formation will allow you to deep strike webway portals onto the table at some point.

Want- Plastic coven troops, plastic grotesques

want- price decrease on most models

Want- talos/chronos to be able to be taken in units of 1-3 per slot.

This all seems about right to me. I just want my Wyches to work as intended, and not used to only hunt vehicles.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
Dread- harlequins will be dropped, the next eldar codex will also seem them dropped. they will be fleshed out in a dataslate as their own detachment types.

Dread- I love mandrakes, the models I mean. They will gain another special rule and drop in cost by 2 points but will still be terrible as the thing they need, either letting an IC start with them infiltrating, or letting their squad leader (nightfiend) have a pain token from start, will not happen.

Dread- Assault will still be non viable, leaving dark eldar as still only having a few builds that are viable with regards to shooting, since the thing dark eldar need to make assault viable will not be given. There will be increased variability in unit options, and formation options, but they will only mock you with how good they could be if dark eldar could get a save versus overwatch shooting, or some form of run+assault.

Expect- Baron, Duke, Malys, Kher, will be gone. Kherudekarh or whatever no one will miss since he is terrible. Despite existing in 2 editions he never received a model, and in this edition he is arguably much worse than last.

Expect- void raven will be dropped.

Expect- standardization of cost of heavy /special weapons/ upgrades across all models.

Expect- webway portal to be gone as an upgrade, instead a certain detachment/formation will allow you to deep strike webway portals onto the table at some point.

Want- Plastic coven troops, plastic grotesques

want- price decrease on most models

Want- talos/chronos to be able to be taken in units of 1-3 per slot.

This all seems about right to me. I just want my Wyches to work as intended, and not used to only hunt vehicles.

I agree, running a Wych Cult and I would appreciate the ability to kill people.
At the same time leaving the haywire grenades would be nice lol.

Want - plastic Tantalus model (not a LoW). We might be getting this.
Want - Venoms and Raiders as a fast attack choice. Almost certainly getting this.
Want - a re-work of the Power from Pain system. Book keeping is lame, and currently, only the 1st level is really worth getting.
Want - all the assault units to get better. Incubi are still pretty good, but the rest of the options are sad

Dread - dropping Duke and Baron. This will almost certainly happen (sucks)
Dread - not changing enough, so alpha strike and lance spam armies remain the dominant DEldar strategies. They're such a one-trick pony right now, and while GW has done an okay job with internal balance with the last few codexes, I still fear that they'll mess up this codex. I've wanted to play DEldar for years, but I just find their whole style of play so inflexible.

What I expect is for them to fix a few units, make several bad ones even more expensive (gotta stop those Mandrakes from dominating the game), and just ignore most of the book's issue because they don't have a clue what the issues actually are. e.g.

Problem - "We basically only have one ranged anti-tank weapon, which is overpriced and crap."
GW Team - "Gee, that sucks. Here, have some more anti-infantry weapons to compensate."

Problem - "Wyches are too expensive and fragile to be effective combat units - especially with overwatch."
GW Team - "I know, we'll up their cost to 15pts per model, but give them WS5."

Problem - "A Succubus can now only get AP2 if she sacrifices all her initiative."
GW Team - "Well, for a mere 50pts, she can have a Power Fist."

Problem - "About 90% of the DE wargear list is useless."
GW Team - "Don't worry, we'll be sure to remove that pesky 10% that's making the rest look bad"

etc.

 vipoid wrote:
What I expect is for them to fix a few units, make several bad ones even more expensive (gotta stop those Mandrakes from dominating the game), and just ignore most of the book's issue because they don't have a clue what the issues actually are. e.g.

Problem - "We basically only have one ranged anti-tank weapon, which is overpriced and crap."
GW Team - "Gee, that sucks. Here, have some more anti-infantry weapons to compensate."

Problem - "Wyches are too expensive and fragile to be effective combat units - especially with overwatch."
GW Team - "I know, we'll up their cost to 15pts per model, but give them WS5."

Problem - "A Succubus can now only get AP2 if she sacrifices all her initiative."
GW Team - "Well, for a mere 50pts, she can have a Power Fist."

Problem - "About 90% of the DE wargear list is useless."
GW Team - "Don't worry, we'll be sure to remove that pesky 10% that's making the rest look bad"

etc.

Love it! Lol

I'd like to see reaver jet bikes become popular again. Perhaps even allowing the Archon to have one.
I always thought that they were kind of cool.

 CShaffer wrote:
So rumors have been pretty big that Dark Eldar will be the next Codex to drop (Could be good or bad).

What do you guys expect/want/dread to happen?

Personally I think it would be cool for the assault elements of a Wych cult to get a little more viable, I understand they make great anti-vehicle but I'd like to be able to kill troops and live the next turn

P.S Don't nerf the Venom!

What i think WILL happen is:

Characters will be reduced or made into unit upgrades (one can easily guess which ones would do which). the Baron will likely just be made into wargear an Archon can take.

Void Raven Bomber kit seems probable.

Grotesques and Wracks both get Plastic kits. Already bought a bunch of Crapcast ones so I wont buy any but i am sure others will.

I suspect they will probably make the Crucible a little beefier. Maybe not a lot but the wording of it... It needs an update. I think the Crucible will probably just create a bubble that makes powers difficult to cast or impossible to cast for a round instead of killing the Psykers. Ill be sad about ti but whatevs.

More poison options for Archons. How dumb is it that the Agonizer isnt poison? the Lhamaean ability is essentially useless unless you wanna give him a Venom Blade...but why ever do that?

the Tantalus will be in the codex. Just a guess. But it would make the Dais a lot more interesting to have that be the Dais!

I just KNOW they will make the Splinter Cannons into Salvo Weapons. Which sucks HARD. But I am willing to bet on it.

 Jancoran wrote:

More poison options for Archons. How dumb is it that the Agonizer isnt poison? the Lhamaean ability is essentially useless unless you wanna give him a Venom Blade...but why ever do that?

Well, you might want to give him a Venom Blade to keep him cheap... or because his other weapon choices are laughable. Yey, AP3 Agoniser, now I can maybe kill some marines in combat or inflict a wound or two to a MC... or I could just do the same at range with poison shooting.

Regardless, a Lhamaean still won't do anything because she upgrades poison weapons to 2+, and Venom Blades are already 2+.

 Jancoran wrote:

I just KNOW they will make the Splinter Cannons into Salvo Weapons. Which sucks HARD. But I am willing to bet on it.

Because what splinter cannons really need is even less reason to take them on infantry.

You're probably right though.

 Jancoran wrote:

 CShaffer wrote:
So rumors have been pretty big that Dark Eldar will be the next Codex to drop (Could be good or bad).

What do you guys expect/want/dread to happen?

Personally I think it would be cool for the assault elements of a Wych cult to get a little more viable, I understand they make great anti-vehicle but I'd like to be able to kill troops and live the next turn

P.S Don't nerf the Venom!

What i think WILL happen is:

Characters will be reduced or made into unit upgrades (one can easily guess which ones would do which). the Baron will likely just be made into wargear an Archon can take.

Void Raven Bomber kit seems probable.

Grotesques and Wracks both get Plastic kits. Already bought a bunch of Crapcast ones so I wont buy any but i am sure others will.

I suspect they will probably make the Crucible a little beefier. Maybe not a lot but the wording of it... It needs an update. I think the Crucible will probably just create a bubble that makes powers difficult to cast or impossible to cast for a round instead of killing the Psykers. Ill be sad about ti but whatevs.

More poison options for Archons. How dumb is it that the Agonizer isnt poison? the Lhamaean ability is essentially useless unless you wanna give him a Venom Blade...but why ever do that?

the Tantalus will be in the codex. Just a guess. But it would make the Dais a lot more interesting to have that be the Dais!

I just KNOW they will make the Splinter Cannons into Salvo Weapons. Which sucks HARD. But I am willing to bet on it.

I'd be skeptical about adding the Tantalus as it is a FW model and they usually like to sell their own books. But idk much.

 Chaos Legionnaire wrote:
I'd like to see reaver jet bikes become popular again. Perhaps even allowing the Archon to have one.
I always thought that they were kind of cool.

I've been meaning to pull my Dark Eldar back onto the table, but from what I've thought, Caltrop Reavers are amazing because they can Jink and not care at all. Lance Reavers for tank hunting however lost a fair bit of survivability.

I'll just be happy if they shift the Razorwing to Fast Attack. Right now there's too much competition for those coveted Heavy Support slots in a single FoC bound army.

Expect:
Void Raven
10 pack plastic Wracks/Haemonculus
Vect and Dais
5 pack plastic Incubi/Drazhar
clampack Archon
Codex, cards (with combat drugs instead of psychic powers), Kabal of the black heart supplement over a 3 week period.

Expect:
Wracks moved to troops.
Vect and Dais moved to Lord of War.
Duke, Baron, Malys, Decapitator to be dropped.
Crystal Heart becomes a relic.
Trueborn to become 2 special/1 heavy per 5, rather than 4 specials, 2 heavy total.
Razorwing moved to Fast Attack.
Shadowfield rules to disallow rerolls.
Splinter Cannon becomes Salvo 6/4
Flickerfield to change to +1 to jink or possibly reroll jink saves.
Night Shields gone
Court of the Archon choices to become 0+ instead of 1+

Want:
Dodge to become 5+ Invul, 4+ Invul in close combat, no change to wych/bloodbride pricing.
Void Raven to gain strafing run, Void mine becomes large blast. Either give it missiles by default, or remove default missiles from razorwing and drop it's price some.
Hellions drop to 12-13 points per model
Reavers drop to 18 points per model. Bladevanes become Vector Strike
Move Scourges to HS
Move Cronos to FA, make it a unit of 1-3
Power through Pain to become currency rather than status- generate 1 if you caused at least 1 unsaved wound in an phase. Spend one or more to give special rules to the unit for the turn.
Battle Focus variant- run + charge, run + shoot, or shoot + run, maybe as options to spend pain tokens on.
Court of the Archon models and Haemonculus to become independent character advisors- "may take 1 per HQ choice, are outside FOC."

 vipoid wrote:
What I expect is for them to fix a few units, make several bad ones even more expensive (gotta stop those Mandrakes from dominating the game), and just ignore most of the book's issue because they don't have a clue what the issues actually are. e.g.

Problem - "We basically only have one ranged anti-tank weapon, which is overpriced and crap."
GW Team - "Gee, that sucks. Here, have some more anti-infantry weapons to compensate."

Problem - "Wyches are too expensive and fragile to be effective combat units - especially with overwatch."
GW Team - "I know, we'll up their cost to 15pts per model, but give them WS5."

Problem - "A Succubus can now only get AP2 if she sacrifices all her initiative."
GW Team - "Well, for a mere 50pts, she can have a Power Fist."

Problem - "About 90% of the DE wargear list is useless."
GW Team - "Don't worry, we'll be sure to remove that pesky 10% that's making the rest look bad"

etc.

This unfortunately.

Also, If they make a WWP a relic, even if they buff it, it will be useless. You need 2 to sensibly be even viable. Why?
- You need to put it at least half way up the field or it's a waste of points.
- You need to have a decent amount of units that will benefit from it, or it's a waste of points. Units to benefit from it enough to justify the cost of the upgrade (generally short ranged non-jump units who aren't just better off in a transport - the list is small), and the delivery system+HQ courier, who is 100% of the time a first blood sacrifice. You really have to commit to make it worthwhile.


Having 1 just makes it stupidly easy for your opponent to bubble wrap it, ensuring anything that needs doesn't make a successful reserve roll the next turn has to walk up the field from your board edge (Pain Engines), or even your entire reserved army if they got the first time. Leaving you with for example a 1000 point army of relevant models, in a 1500 point game, for a race that by nature relies on bringing enough to win a war of attrition (and that's pretty much best case scenario, and that is already an auto-loss).

 vipoid wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

More poison options for Archons. How dumb is it that the Agonizer isnt poison? the Lhamaean ability is essentially useless unless you wanna give him a Venom Blade...but why ever do that?

Well, you might want to give him a Venom Blade to keep him cheap... or because his other weapon choices are laughable. Yey, AP3 Agoniser, now I can maybe kill some marines in combat or inflict a wound or two to a MC... or I could just do the same at range with poison shooting.

Regardless, a Lhamaean still won't do anything because she upgrades poison weapons to 2+, and Venom Blades are already 2+.

 Jancoran wrote:

I just KNOW they will make the Splinter Cannons into Salvo Weapons. Which sucks HARD. But I am willing to bet on it.

Because what splinter cannons really need is even less reason to take them on infantry.

You're probably right though.

That was my point: the venom Blade ALREADY does what the Lhamaean does so the literally only thing that changes or is changed by her is the stupid pistol.

 Jancoran wrote:

That was my point: the venom Blade ALREADY does what the Lhamaean does so the literally only thing that changes or is changed by her is the stupid pistol.

Ah, sorry, I thought you were saying that the Lhamaean only worked with Venom Blade.

 Jancoran wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

More poison options for Archons. How dumb is it that the Agonizer isnt poison? the Lhamaean ability is essentially useless unless you wanna give him a Venom Blade...but why ever do that?

Well, you might want to give him a Venom Blade to keep him cheap... or because his other weapon choices are laughable. Yey, AP3 Agoniser, now I can maybe kill some marines in combat or inflict a wound or two to a MC... or I could just do the same at range with poison shooting.

Regardless, a Lhamaean still won't do anything because she upgrades poison weapons to 2+, and Venom Blades are already 2+.

 Jancoran wrote:

I just KNOW they will make the Splinter Cannons into Salvo Weapons. Which sucks HARD. But I am willing to bet on it.

Because what splinter cannons really need is even less reason to take them on infantry.

You're probably right though.

That was my point: the venom Blade ALREADY does what the Lhamaean does so the literally only thing that changes or is changed by her is the stupid pistol.

The Reason you took her was because if you had a husk blade, but simply had no feasible way to wound a tough target, you could then chose to attack with your splinter pistol (that counts as a CCW) which would then count as poison 2+.
Not saying it justifies paying for a whole court, but still.

 Zewrath wrote:

The Reason you took her was because if you had a husk blade, but simply had no feasible way to wound a tough target, you could then chose to attack with your splinter pistol (that counts as a CCW) which would then count as poison 2+.
Not saying it justifies paying for a whole court, but still.

Except that it's only poisoned when shooting. In combat, it's just a CCW - with or without the Lhamaean.

Also, why would a high-toughness target even be that much of a concern? Our entire army is poison-shooting.

 vipoid wrote:

 Zewrath wrote:

The Reason you took her was because if you had a husk blade, but simply had no feasible way to wound a tough target, you could then chose to attack with your splinter pistol (that counts as a CCW) which would then count as poison 2+.
Not saying it justifies paying for a whole court, but still.

Except that it's only poisoned when shooting. In combat, it's just a CCW - with or without the Lhamaean.

Also, why would a high-toughness target even be that much of a concern? Our entire army is poison-shooting.

Oh, right.. Forgot it's Phill Kelly who wrote the codex, so I still remember the rule as something that would actually make sense and not something a random idiot with a typewriter wrote because he thinks it sounds cool.
Dunno why, always think the rule made all his attacks poison 2+, but then again, I've never used the court nor have I ever seen anyone use them.

The court is pretty awful as it stands. Forcing you to take at least one of each of them just writes them off for me - which is a shame as I really like the models.

0+ of each would fix this. It would be cool to stick the Archon in a venom with a few Sslyth.