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I don't know if this has ever been discussed but does anyone else think terminators look better without the shoulder pads?

Now in some circumstances the pads are fine but recently I've been assembling several void claw formations (terminators with lightning claws) and I've decided I think they look much better without the shoulder pads. They're still armored yet they seem more agile, which really appeals to me considering I play space wolves. Does anyone agree? Disagree? Are there any other models you think look better with just a little something missing?

It all depends on personal taste I know with my Chaos counterparts, I actually used a shoulder guard as a head as it looked way better then the bare head did.

But to your question, It is just down to personal taste and if there is enough room for a shoulder guard. but without them, does leave some space for any customisation you want to add on to them which could improve the models

I agree with you. It's all personal taste. I would never begrudge anyone their love of finely crafted space marine shoulder protection. I was just wondering where other people weighed in on the issue.

Pics please.

Honestly I think MOST units look better without these sholderguards.
They are just so absurdly big.

completely disagree...
the bulk of the shoulder pads is the part of the silhouette that i love about Marines, and especially Termies...
Termies are meant to be walking tanks...
i love that they look like the could duck their head, weather some incoming fire, and then dive into CC...
Space Wolves rimmed shoulder pads make me even happier...

i want my Termies to look imposing...
agile is for scouts...

cheers
jah

There is imposing, and there is "how are your arms even moving without the armor smashing into itself" bulkiness.

Shoulder pads make them look badass. Terminators to me rhe name just conjures up images of a death machine top to Toe in impenetrable armour, wading through enemies and steadily unleashing a torrent of flamers fire or bolter shots as the progess

The Shoulderpads are important IMO


Regardless, I wish terminators were still THE 2+ of 40k and that armour saves could be relied on. Far too much 2+ out there nowadays, offset by the fact that there is far too much AP2 out there. A part of 40k died when marines lost their unique claim to 2+, now they've had to go and give them new strengths as practically any army except guard can mass great armour saves! as such marines more and more and becoming indistinguishable from Xenos.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Shoulder pads make them look badass. Terminators to me rhe name just conjures up images of a death machine top to Toe in impenetrable armour, wading through enemies and steadily unleashing a torrent of flamers fire or bolter shots as the progess

The Shoulderpads are important IMO


Regardless, I wish terminators were still THE 2+ of 40k and that armour saves could be relied on. Far too much 2+ out there nowadays, offset by the fact that there is far too much AP2 out there. A part of 40k died when marines lost their unique claim to 2+, now they've had to go and give them new strengths as practically any army except guard can mass great armour saves! as such marines more and more and becoming indistinguishable from Xenos.

I miss the days when Terminators were mini-tanks back in 2nd edition. Granted they weren't well balanced back then, but I liked the fact they genuinely were tough as nails.

But yeah, they look odd to me without shoulder pads, the torso armour is really tall so that without the shoulder pads they look off. Maybe if the torso wasn't freakishly high it might look better.

But whatever floats your boat I guess.

I like them. + good for hiding any gaps on arm if you adjust the angles/rotation.

completely disagree...
the bulk of the shoulder pads is the part of the silhouette that i love about Marines, and especially Termies...
Termies are meant to be walking tanks...

Qft. Its a great aesthetic and instantly recognisable.

 BoomWolf wrote:
There is imposing, and there is "how are your arms even moving without the armor smashing into itself" bulkiness.

for you that might be true, but for me, i have never once, in 25 years of collecting Space Marines and GW minis, ever once looked at a mini or a vehicle and said, "you know, that would never work in real life"...

you know why???
because they are not real!!!
personally, i don't need a suspension of disbelief with my Sci-Fi and Fantasy, because i dive right into the made up world...

the same argument is going on in the Forge World thread about tank ground clearance...
my Sci-Fi tanks don't need ground clearance, because it is all made up, imaginary stuff
that's just me...

i am happy with huge shoulder pads...
i have no problem with Termie anatomy...
i like the models, and love painting them...

this debate has gone round and round for years...
one side never convinces the other, and i just carry on painting happily...

cheers
jah

No.

Power armor looks OK without pauldrons, but TDA needs them. Its why they look so cool.

The absurd shoulder armour of SM has never really bothered me from a realism standpoint. They just really... I mean REALLY value their shoulders I guess I assume they use their shoulders a bit like shields, lol.

The one that kind of gets me from a realism stand point is the huge flares on their legs. For some reason they really value their shins and have insane armour on them, but I just imagine walking along and clipping my shins together constantly

I guess I lack imagination and need a reason why things are the way they are even if that reason is absurd.

It's simply and logical, actually.
When doing an controlled advance, you walk sideway-ish while firing your gun. This reduces the silouette you offer the enemy to hit. So the main exposed areas are the big shoulders, the shins and legs.

The same reason you stand sideways while shooting bows

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I guess I assume they use their shoulders a bit like shields, lol.

They do. With the shoulders being so armoured they can protect the head, torso and upper arm while leaving both hands free to fire a weapon. It also gives them a great battering ram when charging!

I've left the shoulder pads, and the chaps, off my Centurions for similar reasons.
In their case, the Marine already has pads, and the rest is mostly a chassis for the guns.
Terminators do really need the pads, though.

If you were having a Gladiator style squad, then leaving one off will be perfect for the image it will create as most gladiators (of stereotype Roman style) wore helmet and one shoulder guard.

Not giving them shoulder pads will make them less important.
You know how the social hierarcy goes: Helmet < No helmet < Hat < Pauldron + Helmet < Just Pauldron < Pauldron + Hat

 Thairne wrote:
It's simply and logical, actually.
When doing an controlled advance, you walk sideway-ish while firing your gun. This reduces the silouette you offer the enemy to hit. So the main exposed areas are the big shoulders, the shins and legs.

That still doesn't make sense, why isn't their thigh armour thicker as well as the lower leg armour, the upper leg would be just as exposed as the lower leg.

The same reason you stand sideways while shooting bows

Actually I think that's because drawing a bow while not standing sideways is hard as hell You stand sideways so the load path of the bow is aligned with the shoulders. If you stood front on you'd have to use weaker bows and you'd wobble around more as you aim.

My thinking on the subject was mainly to do with my guys all having lightning claws. When I imagine how they might ferociously just be whipping them around in all directions I cant help but think that those giant shoulder pads would make that incredibly hard. Especially when raising your arms high. I feel like wolf claw terminators would need to be so agile in combat that the pads were be more of a hindrance than anything else.

Maybe... slashing with lightning claws tend to make little to no sense anyway though, humans make for very inefficient slashers compared to, say, a cat

I think Lightning Claws are used more like boxing gloves than how an animal would use its claws.

Hooks will still give you a good "slashing" motion while still putting most of the pressure on the tip of the claws so they're stabbing more than slashing.

And because of the length of the claws themselves, you don't need to move your arms as much to move the claws a significant amount. Like how you can easily move the tip of a sword 3-6 feet with very little wrist rotation.

 Grey Templar wrote:
I think Lightning Claws are used more like boxing gloves than how an animal would use its claws.

Hooks will still give you a good "slashing" motion while still putting most of the pressure on the tip of the claws so they're stabbing more than slashing.

And because of the length of the claws themselves, you don't need to move your arms as much to move the claws a significant amount. Like how you can easily move the tip of a sword 3-6 feet with very little wrist rotation.

Either way it would be really awkward. Trying to punch with 2 foot long blades coming out of your hand may sound cool but in practice would be terrible. The only historical "lightning claw" type weapons have been short daggers, because long claws would be awkward as hell to use and you wouldn't be able to get any weight behind them.

Maybe that is why the LC gauntlet is the same size as a PF.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Maybe that is why the LC gauntlet is the same size as a PF.

This. I always assumed that lightning claws were basically powerfists with extremely sharp blades that were powered by the fist. As for how you use them. It might be different for another chapter but I have always pictured Space wolves using them in a way similar to how wolverine fights. I feel like they would have a definite sense of animosity and ferociousness rather than the style and technique that would be needed with a weapon like a sword. I definitely cant picture someone boxing with them though. lol. Well maybe I can, but its more funny than intimidating. (though maybe that's just because Im imagining it in the ragtime fisticuffs style)