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I have several things to check:
1. Why do you have 2 Warbosses? Eavy Armor will help against getting killed by EVERYTHING and, unfortunately, Skorchas are too costly these days. You should also think about investing in Da Lucky Stikk for better saves re-rolling. Mega-armor works best, but still useable with Eavy Armor.
2. Burnas aren't very good these days. They're good against other infantry, but you already have 3 Killkannons to do that. Killkanons want to stay AWAY from people, however the burnas want to be moderately close.
3. Tankbusters. They're awesome. I would suggest a slightly different loadout for their Battlewagon. The Nob doesn't need a PK. He needs the BP. In CC, tankbusters should really be assulting vechiles with their meltabombs.
4. Point 3 also goes for the Mek in your Burna Squad. He's not going to be able to do much good there.
5. Flash gits, to me, have always been a "meh" unit. What other models do you have access to? Any Deffkoptas? Any bikers?
30 Orks by Foot.
17-20 in a Battlewagon.
12 in a Trukk.
I want offical rules for the Super-Ork that the Mad Dok is working on...
I stopped putting armor on my War bosses because they only fight in challenges and then they are against AP2 or AP3.
Dropping the Burnas and probably the K Skorchas
Still want the Flash Gitz to be good, but haven't bought them.
I am tired of letting my opponent dictate the battle and feeling like a victim. I want to control when and where fights happen. Instead of them outmanuevering and then me Hoping to Survive.
THAT AINT ORKY!
I own:
85 Ork Boyz
5 Big Shootas
5 Rokkits
5 Nobs w/Klaws
50 Gretchin
5 Runt Herdz
2 Warbosses
1 Pain Boy
4 Mek (little)
1 Mek with SAG (big)
10 Mek Gunz
4 Mek Gunz (different model)
8 Lootas
17 Bikers
I lost nearly every game at the LVO 2013 with a 5x wagon list.
20 Boyz
20 Boyz
20 Boyz
3 Megas
10 burnas
20? Lootas. Maybe 10.
KFF (the good ol days)
Something like that.
It worked yesterday, but my opponent's list wasn't very crunchy and he was blowing Armor Saves all overy the place.
@doktor thanks for the heads up.
Hopefully the changes to 7th vehicle survivability and BB scouting rule will help.
The idea is:
R1 roll forward maybe shoot a few things.
R2 Jump out and Assault
R3 if the assaults are going well and/or are close together, have BWs throw it in reverse and Objective Camp.
Obviously Deep Strike wrecks this plan, but it should work for most Armies.
My second game was against new BA. The list was an all-comers list, but I kick his teeth in. The only thing that really gave me trouble was the Golden Angels w/Danted and a Medic. They decimated a Boyz squad and the Bike squad, my Warboss and Nob killed Dante (haha).
I'll need a plan for a full drop pod army though.
I'm thinking either start close to the edge to protect my rear AV10 or dismounted with the BW parked ready to load if they drop in the distance.
A KFF is 5++. The total is more like 135, which is more than my Warboss and he does less work.
Also the BB allows you to scout which puts them out of the 6" unless you stack them which makes them vulnerable to Large Blast and limits you ability to control the battle field. Then the Mek has to be in the front which makes him a prime target.
They only have to last 2 rounds and then they dump their Boyz in assault range. Unless I go first and then only 1 round of shooting.
5 BWS should deliver 3 or 4 to their targets.
They have an 18" Assault Range, spread them out and they cover almost the entire table. Which allows me to box them in.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/12/15 18:14:11
I was talking about the MFF from the WAAAGH supplement which is a 4++.
And yeah scouting them would put them out of range.
Unless you also took Zhadsnark Da Rippa. He gives units of warbikes scout and warbikers are considered scoring. And he is statted up like a warboss with a PK. But again he is almost 1.5x the cost of your warboss right now.
But then you could have a warbiker unit scouting up behind battlewagons. And zhadsnark can turbo-boost into a tank shock. If he tank shocks a vehicle he will be base to base so he gets kind of a cheeky way to assault a vehicle on turn 1. And his stats will give you a 2+ jink save during the turbo-boost.
Are you allowed to use forgeworld for this tournament?
5X Battle Wagon Rokkits 2 Reinforced Ram Total 125
CAD 1220
HQ 110
Warboss Free Shoota Power Klaw Bike Total 110
Troop 800
5X Boyz 20 Boss Nob Power Klaw Free Shoota Boss Pole Total 160
Fast 310
15 Bikerz Boss Nob Power Klaw Boss Pole Total 310
Total for the Army 1845
Each Boyz squad goes in a Battle Wagon. The Warboss goes with the Bikers and will be able to break off if he is needed somewhere else.
Thoughts?
1. drop a rokkit on every wagon and get the stikk 2. loose 4 bikes + a random boy and get a painboy on bike 3. ditch 5 boyz more and get two meks in to absorb challenges 4. kick even more teeth in
I really like the idea of dropping Rokkits for Da Stikk.
The Mek for a few Boyz might be a good choice.
By dropping Bikers won't that bring me close to falling under 10? Then my Bikes have a chance of running off the board. Or does the FnP save enough to keep me over that number? Also what about the loss of shots and attacks?
Mathhammer shows that if each Biker takes a wound then afterwards there will be 10 left either way. Then the Pain Boy unit pulls ahead by 1 Biker. Stays that way until the 4 round of all of them taking wounds and then it is ahead by 2 Bikers.
After 4 rounds of each model taking a wound
15+WB = 3 Bikers = 6 wounds
11+WB+PB = 5 Bikers = 9 wounds
Of course this is all hypothetical and says that you turbo-boosted and jinked every round at a 3+ cover. Then all rolls are perfect percentage. Also they will probably be taking less wounds and after round 2 will be in melee (Hopefully).
More Mathhammer from actual Mathhammer.com
vs 10 marines w/ 8 Bolters and 2 Plasma Guns in double tap range. 3+ jink
Bolters cause 1.185 unsaved wounds.
Plasma Guns cause .741 unsaved wounds.
That comes out to 2-3 dead Bikers a Pain Boy would save 0-1 or 2 Dead Bikers.
Then the Bikers would fire snap shots back
W/o PB they cause 2.8 unsaved wounds.
W PB they cause 2.2 unsaved wounds.
Then the Marines Snap Fire vs 4+ jink before the charge
Bolters .16 PG .27 unsaved wounds.
PB takes that down to .09 and .17 unsaved wounds.
So that means when you charge you will have statistically
W/o 13 (43% chance of 12) Bikers vs 7 Marines
W/PB 11 (26% chance of 10) Bikers vs 8 Marines
If each Marine takes an impact hit statistically one dies. (77% and 88% chance to kill 1 respectively)
Marines attack back vs Armor 4+
6 Marines vs W/o cause 1 unsaved wound
7 Marines vs W/PB cause .765 unsaved wounds
Orks attack back with all engaged:
W/O PB Boyz 4.44
WB 2.77
Nob 2.22
W/PB Boyz 4.00
WB 2.77
Nob 2.22
PB 0.66
Which means the PB Team does. .22 more wounds.
Tac unit is wiped either way
W/o has 11.5 plus Warboss
W/PB has 10 plus Warboss and PB
So all said and done it appears to be basically the same.
As a bonus the PB can break off when the unit gets too small and join a Boyz unit.
Thoughts on all of that?
What are your thoughts on the Ghazbagz Blitzbike w/ or w/o a Git Finda?
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2014/12/23 03:21:02
I have been having a hard time imagining how to effectivley use the Blitze Brigade formation. First im confussed on some rules. Since the formation only includes vehicals, do I still have to use relics and warlord traits from the supplament or do I have to use the ork codex, or do I get to choose.
When fighting teams like tau or eldar, how do you make them effective when they have sooo many S7 and up weapons with high ap ontop of being open-toped. It almost feels like if you dont go first there is not much you can do, if you go second you still cannot assault cause of scot rule.
I have five battle wagons, just need some ideas on how to deal with flyers, deep strikers, and the dreaded loss of the first turn.
All that comes with the Formation is 5 Battle Wagons. As such you have to run a second Formation or a CAD with it.
You have to find a way to protect your sides and/or stay in cover for the save. With an AV14 you are immune to 7. 8 can only glance. 9 has a 16% chance of Penetrating.
If you think your opponent is going to be in charge range on your first turn don't scout. Use your BW's to push them back.
The big secret is keeping your opponent in charge range and staying out of theirs.
This list also works with Killkannons and smaller squads or specialists.
This is not an optimized list that is going to be competitive against smash mouth lists.
Serious Tau or Eldar, Super Friends, Thunder Wolf Battle Leaders will kick your ass 10 ways to Sunday.
Currently the only thing I have found that competes on the top level is GREEN TIDE.
Hope that helps.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Which is better:
20 Slugga Boyz in a Battle Wagon
or
12 Hard Slugga Boyz in a Battle Wagon
???
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/27 04:25:19
I'm not an ork player so I cant really say much here apart from
"no deffcoptas?!?"
frankly, I'm disappointed.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-px27tzAtVwZpZ4ljopV2w "ashtrays and teacups do not count as cover"
"jack of all trades, master of none; certainly better than a master of one"
The Ordo Reductor - the guy's who make wonderful things like the Landraider Achillies, but can't use them in battle..
At first I was very excited about this formation. But then I realized you couldnt assault on the turn in which you scouted. so on turn 1, you move the wagons in to even closer range of the enemy, where any melta guns would be able to get in to melta range. Then you can take a few shots out of the wagons while you're there and pray that not many get blown up.
So it makes for a kind of awkward first turn where you have to sit within charge range.
Marines on foot. 6" move, 6" Double Pen Dice. So if you stay out of 12" they can't do that to you. However, they can charge you so you want sit at 14".
All that comes with the Formation is 5 Battle Wagons. As such you have to run a second Formation or a CAD with it.
You have to find a way to protect your sides and/or stay in cover for the save. With an AV14 you are immune to 7. 8 can only glance. 9 has a 16% chance of Penetrating.
If you think your opponent is going to be in charge range on your first turn don't scout. Use your BW's to push them back.
The big secret is keeping your opponent in charge range and staying out of theirs.
This list also works with Killkannons and smaller squads or specialists.
This is not an optimized list that is going to be competitive against smash mouth lists.
Serious Tau or Eldar, Super Friends, Thunder Wolf Battle Leaders will kick your ass 10 ways to Sunday.
Currently the only thing I have found that competes on the top level is GREEN TIDE.
Hope that helps.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Which is better:
20 Slugga Boyz in a Battle Wagon
or
12 Hard Slugga Boyz in a Battle Wagon
???
I see what your saying, its just soo many points in vehicals without much benefit. It seems like even mid-ter armies can do some crazy damage. Graveweapons and all drop pod armies can easily decimate those expensive units. At this point Id rather go with the formation in the Ork Codex and be able to diversify my vehicles more plus get to waaaggghh every turn.
I think I will still try the Blitz Brigade..... just for fun maybe there is a good build of a list to use with it. Have you had any success so far?
I like the Blitz brigade. It has yet to live up to what I imagine doing with it.
My dreams-
5 BW with lots of guns. 4 rokkits each, killkannon, and a kannon. Scout and first turn shoot the crap out of everything. If you fire the killkannons all of the sudden you have to snap shot everything else. 5x[5] str 8 shots usually nets 4 more shots at str 8 ap 3 past the kilkannons. The kilkannons now being str7 instead of 8 leaves this pretty lackluster.
Mass midboard. Load the BW with squads. 2x squads of 19 boys[1 is nob] +painboy. 1 squad of 20 grots, because reasons, and 2 squads of shooty things. Ive tried tankbustaz x10 and lootaz x15. Each have a big mek with KFF attached, so when they disembark you cover all 5 units if you setup certain ways.
Ramming speed- 5 BW with deff rollaz, and some other stuff. The idea is simple, you ram knights or other stuff with them. Front armor is +2 and tank so you get to hit at str 9 with the ram. It auto hits. This is a terrible idea. It just ends up putting a few hp off a knight and then the knights wreck them with D weapons in assault or they get shot up, but in my head its glorious.
I think some combination of the first and second is feasible.
its not so bad if you keep them open topped, since models embarked in an open topped vehicle can fire overwatch on units that charge the vehicle. when you have a 20 model capacity and certain ork units this can be hilariously effective.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/28 01:22:28
How are your bikers fairing being the only infantry models on the board turn 1 and 2? My assumption would be that they take a bit of a beating from shooting until all the boyz disembark, but if they are working well then great.
I think that kannons would be a good addition for the extra S8 shooting and they're more generally useful than KMK's or TK's which can become relatively expensive. My personal preference is Lobbas as you can snipe characters and they will have something to shoot every turn if the game, as well as holding backfield objectives while still being able to fire anywhere on the table. But you already have a lot of anti infantry in your list so they might be a bit superfluous. 2 or 3 units of Mek Gunz with a couple of ammo runts would work nicely.
They are weak to assaults but that's inevitable, they're cheap enough that it doesn't really matter.
I have my Bikers Turbo turn 1 so that they have 3+ jinks and laugh as they shrug crazy amounts of fire off. Sometimes I take a PB which saves another few. I haven't faced cover ignoring units with them yet.
Thanks for the Kannon advice of running regular cheap ones.
I have 2nd company models. So I can run them as I choose. I have 10 of one type and 4 of another.
