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OK, the title says it all. This is supposed to be competitive. Whilst remaining a little fun and fluffy for me. I have picked simply units I like and formations I look forward to running. I want people to help optimise or to critique or to help me realise where I'll struggle. I most certainly do not want people whining that they wouldn't play me, that I'll have no gaming friends, that I'm playing full cheese, or that they'd table flip and walk off. If that's the kind of comment you're here to make, then save your time, and don't bother. It's not constructive and it doesn't help. There's plenty of other places you can throw your toys.

On to the list. I've always been an Iyanden player. Alas, I now have to tone my wraith list down in order to keep the game interesting. And I really want to run a seer council. So here's the list I've come up with.

CAD

HQ - Farseer, singing spear.

Elites - Wraithguard. D-scythes. Wave serpent. TL SL. SC. HF.

Troops - 4x Windrider Jetbikes. 4x SL
Troops - 4x Windrider Jetbikes. 4x SC

LoW - Wraithknight. Ghost glaive. 2x SL (not sure the lasers are optimal here...)

Formation - Seer Council.
Farseer Skyrunner. Singing spear. Spirit stone (Runes of fate)
Farseer Skyrunner. Singing spear. (Telepathy)
Warlock Skyrunner x5

Formation - Aspect Shrine.
Fire dragons x5 Inc Exarch. Wave serpent. TL SL. HF. (not sure about the turrets weapons. Footseer goes here.)
Swooping hawks x6 Inc Exarch with sunrifle.
Warp spiders x6 Inc Exarch.

What do people think?

Any reason for not running the guardian host (windriders)? Wouldn't change up the list much, and there are some nice benefits

Not sure about the Jetbikes squads of 4. One casualty and they are taking a LD8 morale test. 3 or 5 seems to be a better option with small squads.

Depending on the terrain you encounter, I would look at the piece of vehicle wargear that gives a Wave Serpent Move Thru Cover over a Holofield.


Otherwise, appears to be a decent list.

if you want access to those formations you have to take a warhost. So you have too many elites and hq atm. you pretty much cant take a single wraithguard unit and warhost formations

Not true , formations are available to everyone

The Windrider host is too points intensive for this list. I'd need points for the jetbike for the third seer, I'd need to find points for another warlock conclave. A third bike squad and vypers on top of that as well. All for shred once per game.... Not sold on that as a must. I'd rather have the seers and warlocks in the seer council for the 3+ warp charge generation.

I do want another bike in each squad, but it's where to find the points from? This is at 1996 points. So I need 50 points from somewhere.

Rx8Speed wrote:
if you want access to those formations you have to take a warhost. So you have too many elites and hq atm. you pretty much cant take a single wraithguard unit and warhost formations

Incorrect you are free to take any Formations you want in any battleforged or Unbound army. This works exactly like the Necron codex.

As for the list the Wraithknight is far better off with D Cannons than the sword. In either case Scatter Lasers are a great option for 8 S6 shots at 2 different targets.

Scytheguard in a Serpent are decent but you only have 1 other Serpent so lack target saturation. I'd get a second unit or reconfigure the Aspect host to include more Serpents.

Personally the main reason to take a CAD is to get more bike units but only 2 choices seems odd. Particularly running a Council you'dbe better off concentrating on Jetbikes and Knights or going more heavily mech. It at the moment seems like you're trying to do 3 different lists at once.

 FlingitNow wrote:

Rx8Speed wrote:
if you want access to those formations you have to take a warhost. So you have too many elites and hq atm. you pretty much cant take a single wraithguard unit and warhost formations

Incorrect you are free to take any Formations you want in any battleforged or Unbound army. This works exactly like the Necron codex.

As for the list the Wraithknight is far better off with D Cannons than the sword. In either case Scatter Lasers are a great option for 8 S6 shots at 2 different targets.

Scytheguard in a Serpent are decent but you only have 1 other Serpent so lack target saturation. I'd get a second unit or reconfigure the Aspect host to include more Serpents.

Personally the main reason to take a CAD is to get more bike units but only 2 choices seems odd. Particularly running a Council you'dbe better off concentrating on Jetbikes and Knights or going more heavily mech. It at the moment seems like you're trying to do 3 different lists at once.

Yeah, I kinda am. It's difficult because it's such a beautiful book and there's so many nice options. I like the sword knight because it seems to be a lot more accepted that the ranged D. And the aspect shrine grants me +1 BS. So I can have BS5 dragons with a farseer for guide. There's only two serpents, and I am mildly concerned that I don't have enough board threat with the three bike squads and two serpents. I don't know how to change it though.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

Rx8Speed wrote:
if you want access to those formations you have to take a warhost. So you have too many elites and hq atm. you pretty much cant take a single wraithguard unit and warhost formations

Incorrect you are free to take any Formations you want in any battleforged or Unbound army. This works exactly like the Necron codex.

As for the list the Wraithknight is far better off with D Cannons than the sword. In either case Scatter Lasers are a great option for 8 S6 shots at 2 different targets.

Scytheguard in a Serpent are decent but you only have 1 other Serpent so lack target saturation. I'd get a second unit or reconfigure the Aspect host to include more Serpents.

Personally the main reason to take a CAD is to get more bike units but only 2 choices seems odd. Particularly running a Council you'dbe better off concentrating on Jetbikes and Knights or going more heavily mech. It at the moment seems like you're trying to do 3 different lists at once.

Yeah, I kinda am. It's difficult because it's such a beautiful book and there's so many nice options. I like the sword knight because it seems to be a lot more accepted that the ranged D. And the aspect shrine grants me +1 BS. So I can have BS5 dragons with a farseer for guide. There's only two serpents, and I am mildly concerned that I don't have enough board threat with the three bike squads and two serpents. I don't know how to change it though.

I personally love your list because as Fling said people want to just spam bikes and Knights and even when they don't they spam some other unit. Your's is the first list I've seen beside my own that doesn't double up on anything that isn't a mandatory requirement for a formation (except the 2 bike squads that are still different).

My one/two question is what are the footseer and warlocks choosing for spells? I plan on running a 10 man foot council with Eldrad and having the locks roll on Santic for Sanctuary for the 3++/2++(on Eldrad) and other such shenanigans. But with bikes i can see trying for protect and conceal combo for the 2+/5+(2+jink) cover.

Thank you. Yeah, the locks were going to go on runes of battle. I'm after protect as well, but I don't really think there's a bad spell. But imagine you get protect, jink and fortune.... It becomes a death star without being a purpose built death star. (especially if the stone carrying seer gets eldritch storm....)

As for the foot seer. I'm not sure. It depends on the opponent. The idea is to throw him in with the dragons for guided BS5. Making sure those 5 dragons hit home with every shot. Hopefully maybe get doom or fortune on that squad too....

If you are worried about board threat you could take out the hawks and the 4th bike from the 2 squads and add 7 Dark reapers w/o the starshot missiles or 5 with.

I thought that. But I like the hawks and they have a fun anti flier move. I know I may get to use it once in every 10 games or something. But it's fun. I did think about reapers, but I already own the hawks and I've just got may hands on enough new bikes. If anything in wanted to increase each squad by one rather than drop it.

You don't need guide on Bs5, a waste of dice. I would roll Telepathy on that Seer and give him a bike and put him with the Council. That council already clocks and in at 505 points so it is a Deathstar, so commit to it.

Unfortunately for competitive play redundancy and target saturation are important so if you want a competitive list you need to decide what you want. BikeDar, Seer Council, Aspect Host, Wraiths, MechDar etc. At the moment your list is trying to be all and in a competitive setting it will cone up short because of that.

 FlingitNow wrote:
You don't need guide on Bs5, a waste of dice. I would roll Telepathy on that Seer and give him a bike and put him with the Council. That council already clocks and in at 505 points so it is a Deathstar, so commit to it.

Unfortunately for competitive play redundancy and target saturation are important so if you want a competitive list you need to decide what you want. BikeDar, Seer Council, Aspect Host, Wraiths, MechDar etc. At the moment your list is trying to be all and in a competitive setting it will cone up short because of that.

I guess we have different opinions on redundancy because I think he is good with redundancy and any more would make him to specialized. But then again I forget that to be "competitive" you need to spam the cheesiest things possible.

What is the plan with the CAD Farseer?
Will he run with the Seer Council?
Which tables do you plan to roll on?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry. Refreshed the page a bit later than I replied. I'm planning a similar list and would suggest the third Farceur with the Council (just likeFlingitnow suggested).

As said looks a bit too small at this pt level.
Competitive? I guess not.

 Lurker wrote:
What is the plan with the CAD Farseer?
Will he run with the Seer Council?
Which tables do you plan to roll on?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry. Refreshed the page a bit later than I replied. I'm planning a similar list and would suggest the third Farceur with the Council (just likeFlingitnow suggested).

Yeah, but that means squeezing another 15 points out if somewhere. I just don't have those points. And with him he can ride with the dragons or the Wraithguard depending on the opponent. Imagine invisibility on scythe guard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 FlingitNow wrote:
You don't need guide on Bs5, a waste of dice. I would roll Telepathy on that Seer and give him a bike and put him with the Council. That council already clocks and in at 505 points so it is a Deathstar, so commit to it.

Unfortunately for competitive play redundancy and target saturation are important so if you want a competitive list you need to decide what you want. BikeDar, Seer Council, Aspect Host, Wraiths, MechDar etc. At the moment your list is trying to be all and in a competitive setting it will cone up short because of that.

I'd be willing to drop the spiders. I can then add a warlock in to each bike squad, and have points left over. But I'd be concerned that I'm losing BS5 on the aspect shrine, as I'd have to take them in the CAD.

 FlingitNow wrote:

Rx8Speed wrote:
if you want access to those formations you have to take a warhost. So you have too many elites and hq atm. you pretty much cant take a single wraithguard unit and warhost formations

Incorrect you are free to take any Formations you want in any battleforged or Unbound army. This works exactly like the Necron codex.

actually you are incorrect. i dont know how the necron codex works but the seer council and aspect host are formations can only be taken if you pay for a guardian host. It specifically says "1-12" per guardian host. I cant believe so many people didnt cath on to that... like come on! and two people even specifically disagreed with me aha read the rules

Rx8Speed wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

Rx8Speed wrote:
if you want access to those formations you have to take a warhost. So you have too many elites and hq atm. you pretty much cant take a single wraithguard unit and warhost formations

Incorrect you are free to take any Formations you want in any battleforged or Unbound army. This works exactly like the Necron codex.

actually you are incorrect. i dont know how the necron codex works but the seer council and aspect host are formations can only be taken if you pay for a guardian host. It specifically says "1-12" per guardian host. I cant believe so many people didnt cath on to that... like come on! and two people even specifically disagreed with me aha read the rules

Yes you get 1-12 per guardian host. You may also take them separately as they are formations. Please read pahge 94 it should explain it all to you. Also read pages 116-121 Choosing your army and it should all become clear. If you still don't understand please post on YMDC and people there will help you.

so by that logic i can take 9×5 dark reapers with missile launchers and a seer council and call that a battle forged 2000pt army?

45 bs5 missile launcher and 11 warp dice that harness on a 3+ with no tax of any kind doesnt feel right

Yes that is a battle forged army if the DRs are part of 3 Aspect Hosts.

Tau can field a battle forged army of nothing but Broadsides and Riptides.

Wow 40k is dumb lol

I'm still not sold on this list. But I don't know where to go with it.

My advice is decide what type of list you want and then build to that. Currently it looks like a random mesh of units.

Rx8Speed wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

Rx8Speed wrote:
if you want access to those formations you have to take a warhost. So you have too many elites and hq atm. you pretty much cant take a single wraithguard unit and warhost formations

Incorrect you are free to take any Formations you want in any battleforged or Unbound army. This works exactly like the Necron codex.

actually you are incorrect. i dont know how the necron codex works but the seer council and aspect host are formations can only be taken if you pay for a guardian host. It specifically says "1-12" per guardian host. I cant believe so many people didnt cath on to that... like come on! and two people even specifically disagreed with me aha read the rules

Actually your wrong. Any number of formations in any order from any codex can always be taken or allied.

Well, do people think this list would work very well in a friendly setting. I'm a little bit fed up of being dominated by a friends tau.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Well, do people think this list would work very well in a friendly setting. I'm a little bit fed up of being dominated by a friends tau.

That all depends on what your friendly setting is. Being Eldar there are very few bad choices, so you could do well. However if your Tau buddy is running an effective list you may continue to struggle. Does he have a Fire Base Support Cadre and/or a Farsight bomb. If it is a no to both of those and he has less than 3 Riptides you should be more than OK. Tau struggle against Wraithknights.

Normally 1-2 riptides, and R'Vanna and a farsighted bomb. No FBSC normally.

I think I have a comp list..... I'll keep this one for friendly. And the following for tournaments. Let me know what you think Flingitnow. I have 180 points to spend....

Eldar war host.

Core - Windrider host.

Farseer, bike, singing spear.
Warlock conclave. 3 warlocks
Windrider squad. 5x bikes, 5x scatter lasers.
Windrider squad. 5x bikes, 5x shuriken cannons.
Windrider squad. 5x bikes, 5x shuriken cannons.
Vyper squadron. 2x Vypers. Each with 2x shuriken cannons and hold fields.

Regents - Seer council.

Farseer. Bike, singing spear. Spirit stone
Farseer. Bike, singing spear.
Warlock conclave. 5x warlocks on bikes.

Auxiliary - Wraith construct.
Hemlock Wraith fighter.

Auxiliary - Wraith construct.
Wraithknight. 2x wraith cannons. 2x scatter lasers.

So, it's just what to do with the last 180 points. I had a crimson Hunter exarch for anti air.... And then remembered that you can't have one in the warhost. So what to do with the last points. Maybe a bike Bourne autarch?

Yes that should do very well against him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Drop a spear and get a second Hemlock.

Perfect suggestion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What if I had to trim it to 1500? I'd drop the seer council. Is that what you'd do?