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hello all as the title says I am a returning player I last collected about 8 years ago when Orcs trukks were still the flat-bed moddles (I hope at least one of you are just as nostalgic as me right now) and i'm aware there have been several additions to the board game since then and i'm sure all my knowledge is out dated. So I have a couple of questions about army lists and the amount of units you are allowed to use from each category of troops. I know some of you will be thinking why haven't I just gone to my local GW and asked, the answer to that is it takes me between 45 minute and 1 hour to get there because the buses here are rubbish and a 2 hour round trip is a bit excessive for a couple of questions.

1.what is the standard maximum allowance for each troop type when I was last collecting I think it was 2 HQ, 3 elite, 6 troops, 3 fast attack and 3 heavy support. is this still the standard or have the rules changed? and is it still the same for all races as I will be collecting Dark Eldar this time or dose each race allowance vary now?

2. Is there any flexibility within the troop allowances say I give up a heavy support for an extra fast attack unit? (I used to do this when I was younger but i cant remember if we made this rule up or not.)

3.Do people still aim for around the 1750 points mark with a 250 points variation? or has this changed also (i'm aware you can have as many or as little unofficially i'm just on about the standard here)

Thank you for your time and patience with my more than likely noob questions and I apologise for all my terrible punctuation and any wrong spellings i'm dyslexic and have spent 45 mins spell checking and trying to add any punctuation to make this post ledge-able to the rest of you.

1) Yes the rules have changed. That old thing is called a CAD (Combined Arms Detachment) now and it's just one of many ways to build an army. Nearly every army also has Formations which are specific combinations of units for a bonus, and unique Detachments which also have bonuses. Forget EVERYTHING you used to know and it is actually very easy to understand. There is a lot more freedom in how you build things. You can take any combination in any amount in a normal game, and they just interact with each other according to their level of allies.

2) If you want to ignore the Detachments and just add whatever, whenever, that's now called Unbound. It's not the most acceptable thing ever but people that complain about it when you are just doing as you said and not exploiting the rule to be cheesy can go elsewhere. Unbound is legal and people need to get over these kneejerk reactions to a concept. Expect people to look at you with distrust and force you to explain your list before they play a game with you.

3) 1850 is the most common, followed by 2000pts.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
1) Yes the rules have changed. That old thing is called a CAD (Combined Arms Detachment) now and it's just one of many ways to build an army. Nearly every army also has Formations which are specific combinations of units for a bonus, and unique Detachments which also have bonuses. Forget EVERYTHING you used to know and it is actually very easy to understand. There is a lot more freedom in how you build things. You can take any combination in any amount in a normal game, and they just interact with each other according to their level of allies.

2) If you want to ignore the Detachments and just add whatever, whenever, that's now called Unbound. It's not the most acceptable thing ever but people that complain about it when you are just doing as you said and not exploiting the rule to be cheesy can go elsewhere. Unbound is legal and people need to get over these kneejerk reactions to a concept. Expect people to look at you with distrust and force you to explain your list before they play a game with you.

3) 1850 is the most common, followed by 2000pts.

Nothing to add. Except for the point limit. Actually 1850 is mostly for USA. Europe tournament usually play at 1750 with a 250 variable. Here in Asia most tournament are at 2000 PTS.

The standard Force Org Chart is still a thing. However, the Dark Eldar have an alternate in their Codex and the Coven book is mostly formations.

Also remember that Eldar, Harlequins, and Corsairs are all Battle Buddies so you can buy and mix and match them as long as meet their requirements. This can create some devistating combos.

Example: You can put a Farseer with a Harlequin Troupe inside a Raider.

Thank you for your replies guys this has made my life so much easier. Now I have more flexibility than I ever imagined I cant wait to get started again. Thanks for all the help

One last thing to mention. Before you start rebuilding an army I would carefully consider how competitive you want your army to be and post multiple versions of your list on sights like this to get feedback. This hobby is awesome but incredibly time consuming and certainly not cheap if you buy direct from gw/fw. I hate to see people build, paint, and spend the money to get together what they think is an awesome list only to see it get stomped at a local tournament. It can really take the wind out of your sails.

Lastly something I didn't see mentioned above. Previously only troops could score objectives and things such as the relic. Now everything can score but troops in "battle forged"(all this means is you use a cad or other race specific force organizatio chart) armies have the added bonus of objective secured. This means that if a troops choice(or their dedicated transport) are near an objective claimed by an opponent but that unit doesn't have objective secured you steal it from them.

Example - enemy terminators are sitting near an objective in my backfield, I move a tactical squad close but can't manage to kill those terminators. However I still score the objective and any victory points associated with it. This is crucial because the game is about who scores the most victory points now which can be earned in a miriad of ways.


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Hope this helps and welcome back!!!

Epartalis wrote:

Lastly something I didn't see mentioned above. Previously only troops could score objectives and things such as the relic. Now everything can score but troops in "battle forged"(all this means is you use a cad or other race specific force organizatio chart) armies have the added bonus of objective secured.

Not correct. That's only a bonus in a select few Detachments and most Detachments have other, unique bonuses instead. The CAD has Objective Secured. The special one for Tyranids, Dark Eldar, Blood Angels etc. does not. It does make a difference in the game though. Blood Angels using their own Detachment are more aggressive than ones using a CAD because the CAD is better suited to owning objectives instead of outright killing things in Assault.

First thing you'll want to purchase, is the 7th edition rule book which explains all of this

Many other rules have changed since 8 years ago.

The rule book only mentions that they exist and the CAD and Allies detachment.

Since he already knows that he doesn't need the RB.

 Sick Bag wrote:
The rule book only mentions that they exist and the CAD and Allies detachment.

Since he already knows that he doesn't need the RB.

Of course he needs the rule book. Different rules, USR, flyers, lords of war, assault rules have changed, psychic powers etc.

It's a completely different game now.

Thanks for the feed back guys al make sure I post my experimental army listings soon i'm thinking of an army relying mostly on speed and manoeuvrability hence why I chose Dark Eldar so i'm going with a wyche cult theme. As far as the rule book I think my friends got a new one so al cadge that off him.

Just so you know dark elear are incredibly hard to play and win with.. this isn't me being a big headed idiot or anything, but if you are starting out I'd recommend harlequins or vanilla eldar... but if your heart is set on dark eldar get a bomber.. and some incubii.. and some venoms with splinter canons

In general there are two ways to build an army - unbound - which means take anything - and battle-forged, where your models must be organised into detachments. Most people will probably wish to play battle-forged.

The basic detachment type is what's known as a combined arms detachment. Similar to the FoC you're familiar with, it consists of one mandatory HQ and two mandatory troops, plus four optional troops, three optional elites, fast attack and heavy support and one optional HQ, lord of war and fortification. You're probably familiar with most of those, so I'll just explain the last two. A lord of war is generally a super-heavy vehicle or gargantuan creature such as a Fellblade or Heirophant bio-titan, but some exceptionally powerful characters may also be lords of war. A fortification is generally some kind of bunker or defensive emplacement, which may or may not include mounted weapons. There's also the allied detachment, which is like a stripped-down CAD intended to represent a small contingent of another faction fighting alongside your main army.

Each 7th edition codex will also have one or more unique detachments that represent the specific fighting style of the faction in question. Every detachment will have its own set of benefits for all the units in it - for example, the Eldar craftworld warhost allows all units within to automatically run 6" instead of rolling to see how far they can go.

Most factions also have access to formations, which are a third type of detachment. Rather than consisting of slots, these will consist of specific models - for example, the Hellforged Hunting Pack consists of one Brass Scorpion and eight other daemon engines of any type. All the models in a formation gain a unique benefit for being in it, which may completely change how they play. (There's a dark eldar formation that consists of a single unit of I think 8? Talos that allows you to gain extra victory points any time they kill something).

One character in your army is selected to be the warlord, and the detachment featuring them is selected to be your primary detachment. A warlord gains a warlord trait, which may be a specific bonus for named characters or rolled for on a selection of warlord trait tables - generally you'll have one or two faction specific tables plus some in the rulebook that anybody can roll on. If you have no characters in your army (which may happen if you choose a detachment that doesn't require a HQ and don't select any unit champions) you get to nominate any one model as a warlord, but they don't get a trait. Some detachments (such as the allied detachment) can't be the primary detachment, so your warlord could never come from one of those.

One benefit featured in a variety of detachments is Objective Secured. A unit with this rule is effectively super-scoring, and can control an objective even if there's an enemy unit there as long as it doesn't also have objective secured. Generally this is given to troops (in the CAD and allied detachments, for example) but some detachments may give it to other models - the Death Korps of Krieg Death Rider Company gives it to death riders even though they're technically a fast attack choice.

Just jumping in here with a few questions if I may as on the same lines.

Starting afresh with a mix of Cult of Mech & Skitarii as a themed bundle. Any lists I make will include units from one or both of these.

i. I understand that if I select a CAD from say CoM with the warlord and then allies from Skitarii then both get the objective secured. However, if CoM detachment is primary then only they benefit from Canticles and not the Skitarii as they dont have the required entry. But, assuming an allied detachment of Skitarii, would they still get their Doctrina and visa versa?

ii. As formations are more common now, am i right thinking they are outside of the FOC, so if you want a CAD list, you would need HQ + 2 x Troops and then the formation on top of it. So if you want a formation on its own, you technically dont have any FOC entries?

iii. picking up on this post above "That's only a bonus in a select few Detachments and most Detachments have other, unique bonuses instead. The CAD has Objective Secured. The special one for Tyranids, Dark Eldar, Blood Angels etc. does not."

Is this suggesting standard Tyranid detachments as CAD do not get ObsSec, or just formations where they have their own rules?

Thanks in advance (and sorry for what are likely basic Qs).2

Dorrin wrote:
ii. As formations are more common now, am i right thinking they are outside of the FOC, so if you want a CAD list, you would need HQ + 2 x Troops and then the formation on top of it. So if you want a formation on its own, you technically dont have any FOC entries?

Correct, you can make a Battleforged list purely out of Formations. Units taken in a Formation do not use up slots (mandatory or optional) in other Detachments, and do not gain the benefits of those other detachments (Decurion-style detachments are an exception to this).

Dorrin wrote:
iii. picking up on this post above "That's only a bonus in a select few Detachments and most Detachments have other, unique bonuses instead. The CAD has Objective Secured. The special one for Tyranids, Dark Eldar, Blood Angels etc. does not."

Is this suggesting standard Tyranid detachments as CAD do not get ObsSec, or just formations where they have their own rules?

Tyranid CAD's get Obj.Sec. But they also have access to that rule in some other detachments as well (one or more of the Leviathan special detachments). Most "non-standard" Detachments do not have Obj.Sec., but have something else in it's place.

I'll leave "i" to someone with those Codeci.

Cheers for that.

I have the other codices so yeah, so expand on it.

Skitarii have a rule where any units with the Doctrina rule can have a different effect every turn.

Cult of mechanicum have the same basic idea, but theirs are called canticles.

So, my assumption is that if you have two detachments, say one of each, then they can both use these rules but only for their own detachment. I know they cant use each others, but I was mainly checking that it wasnt only the primary detachment that could use them (though thinking about it I dont see why that would be the case).

That is correct the Skitarii rules only affect them and the Cult rules are for the cult.

However, there are exceptions such as the Cult HQ and Relics specifically affect both. And some USR will work across faction due to Battle Buddies rules.

The other exception is if you run the formation from the White Dwarf that has you run: Skitarii Battle Maniple, Cult Detachment and Oaths worn Knights. Then the Battle Canticles affect all units in the formation, bit only cout the Cultimate for how pwoeful the Cantical is. However, the Skitarii Doctrina are limited to the Skitarii.

This is a massive exception because you get all of the rules from the 3 component formations and the parent formation. Which may or may not be a sign of things to come.

Did I mention they don't Get Hot and all of your Wargear is FREE?