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Made in us
Freaky Flayed One





List I have brewed up with my favorite units, what are you thoughts? USING ITC rules so we allowed to take three detachments and we are not allowed to take Come the Apocalypse allies. My local TOs do not allow for Mephrit Formations to take Codex: Necron relics sadly.

Tau: Fire Support Cadre

Riptide - Ion Accelerator / Twin-linked Fusion Blaster / Interceptor

Broadside x 3 Twin-linked Heavy Missiles / Twin-linked Smart Missiles / Skyfire / Bonding Knife (extra points) (user selects to opt to skyfire)
Missile Drones x 3

Broadside x 3 Twin-linked Heavy Missiles / Twin-linked Smart Missiles / Interceptor Bonding Knife (extra points)
Missile Drones x 3

Khorne Daemonkin CAD

Herald (cheapest HQ, barebones)

Cultists with CCW/Autopistol x 2 MSU

Heldrake with Baleflamer x 3

Necrons

Conclave of the Burning One

C'tan Nightbringer
Cryptek Godshackle / Staff of Light / Phase Shifter
Cryptek Staff of Light / Phase Shifter


Some light background for my first playtest:

Played this list over the weekend. Played Nurgle CSM first round his list wasn't that great. 30 Plaguemarines, Chaos Lord with a Murder Sword, Typhus, 2 PF/PF Helbrutes, Maulerfiend, 3 Rhinos with Havoc Launchers. We were playing on a 6x5 so it gave him an early advantage (didn't realize it wasn't marked off properly until after the tournament) but I tabled him with only self inflicted hull points/wounds (riptide, heldrakes)

Second game was against Nids, he killed one unit of Broadsides after losing his Scythed Heirodule to Gaze of Death, killed two heldrakes as well over the course of the game. He gave me a challenge but I ended up cleaning house at the end.

Game three I played against a DA/AdMech Grav spam list.

Ended up basically destroying his list after losing most of my fire base and one heldrake.

Ctan was running rampant but sadly I lost the game due to game ending on turn five and one marine not dying to a combination of 24 shots (smarts, tl heavies) making 80% of them, wounding with 100% of the shots that made it through. He also rolled 5 inches, exactly what he needed to contest the objective (unit was obsec)
   
Made in us
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine





Utah

FBSC is always a great choice. The loadout you have on it seems solid too.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




3 helldrakes make an appearance at w tournament recently, what madness is this? That being said awesome list. Really makes me want to run a ctan.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Epartalis wrote:
3 helldrakes make an appearance at w tournament recently, what madness is this? That being said awesome list. Really makes me want to run a ctan.


Heldrakes have always lived and died, competitively, based on the availability of meaningful targets for them in the current meta. Their role never really changes, it's just a matter of whether or not the things they want to be killing are currently represented in other competitive armies.

They made a big splash in early 6th because everyone was still playing their Grey Knight and Space Wolf armies from 5th. Once people adjusted and Necrons took control (swiftly followed by Tau and Eldar), Heldrakes mostly disappeared, because there wasn't much for them do be doing against those armies.

The logical reaction from every Chaos player upon seeing the new Eldar book was "oh, well, I guess Heldrakes are back." Nothing deals with Scatbikes in quite the same way. And there are a lot of Scatbikes to be dealt with.
   
Made in us
Freaky Flayed One





DJ3 wrote:
Epartalis wrote:
3 helldrakes make an appearance at w tournament recently, what madness is this? That being said awesome list. Really makes me want to run a ctan.


Heldrakes have always lived and died, competitively, based on the availability of meaningful targets for them in the current meta. Their role never really changes, it's just a matter of whether or not the things they want to be killing are currently represented in other competitive armies.

They made a big splash in early 6th because everyone was still playing their Grey Knight and Space Wolf armies from 5th. Once people adjusted and Necrons took control (swiftly followed by Tau and Eldar), Heldrakes mostly disappeared, because there wasn't much for them do be doing against those armies.

The logical reaction from every Chaos player upon seeing the new Eldar book was "oh, well, I guess Heldrakes are back." Nothing deals with Scatbikes in quite the same way. And there are a lot of Scatbikes to be dealt with.


Exactly, everyone says the same thing all the time. Heldrakes just pop back up when they are a metachoice. Right now with Whitescars Grav/Ravenwing Bikers/Scat Bikes and Skyhammer Heldrakes become very good. The worst thing that can happen is playing a nid player who can get the drop on my drakes, thankfully they can come in on a turn and at least smoke dudes/vector strike flyrants.
   
Made in us
Fully-charged Electropriest





DJ3 wrote:

They made a big splash in early 6th because everyone was still playing their Grey Knight and Space Wolf armies from 5th. Once people adjusted and Necrons took control (swiftly followed by Tau and Eldar), Heldrakes mostly disappeared, because there wasn't much for them do be doing against those armies.


They also had a 360 degree firing arc. After vector strike nerf and they were back to being a hull mounted weapon they stopped being played. 510 points with no reserve manipulation is not very good for a tournament where there is a chance you might not see all those points show up when you need them.

They were played all through 6th. Usually 2 bale flamers and a hades for taking out other fliers by vectoring through a flier then firing on its rear with str 8 shots. Until CSM get an update they just are not as strong as they were with so many rule changes that hurt them.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/07/01 21:25:04


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 Tyrius wrote:
They were played all through 6th.


Not in anything resembling a serious competitive list. At Adepticon 2013, you couldn't turn around without knocking over six Heldrakes.

Post-Tau/Eldar, they lost their purpose. As someone who actually was playing a Hades Drake at the time for anti-air, I had to drop it by Feast of Blades that year because there weren't any more flyers in the meta in the first place. Tau chased them all away. It wasn't worth keeping him just as a rare anti-Necron spoiler choice. People thought they'd come back with the new Marine book, but White Scars didn't turn out to be as good in 6th as people expected, and when Centstar eventually came out as the primary competitive choice from that book they again had no relevant targets.

So basically Heldrakes were the internet's boogeyman throughout 6th, but the internet rarely resembles what's actually happening at tournaments. The only Heldrakes I saw at tournaments post-Tau/Eldar were Necron/CSM allied lists with a single token Heldrake alongside their Cron Air--which were essentially just netlist echoes of what had happened at the prior Adepticon--and those lists were getting obliterated.

At the same time, 360 degree fire arc didn't make Heldrakes good--by the time that FAQ came out they were practically at the end of their relevance anyway, and during the period when they actually were good, everyone had been playing them with normal firing arcs. Give them back their 360 degree firing arc and they'd still have been irrelevant thusfar in 7th. To be honest, the Vector nerf probably hurt them more than the firing arc nerf--but again, we're discussing two nerfs on a unit that would have still been unused without either of them. We may as well be discussing what would happen if Flash Gitz went down to T3 and cost five more points.

Heldrakes are a reasonably-priced S6 AP3 Template that can find you literally anywhere on the board from the moment of arrival, which is nearly impossible to hide from. When the primary competitive armies are in 2+ armor (Cents/Riptides/Broadsides/Wolf Characters/GK), sporting Invul Saves (Daemons/Wraiths/Storm Shields), Mech'd up (Wave Serpents), T8 (Wraithknights), or in the air (FMCs/old Cron Air), there's no call for such a weapon--and the problem with non-Transport Flyers is, their role is strictly offensive. They provide no value if they aren't killing things. They provide no efficiency if the things they are killing are just 4-10 point backfield Troops, which it won't even be removing full squads of in a single pass anyway, meaning it's accomplished nothing.

Now, there are suddenly a bunch of 27-point models zooming around tables that are too fast to be assaulted and tend to have 3+armor/2+ cover at T4. That makes Heldrakes relevant, despite the nerfs, which just proves the nerfs weren't the real problem in the first place. Any unit that is relegated solely to offense will always draw its relevance from its targets, not from itself.

As an example, imagine you could buy an upgrade that cost 5 points and immediately killed all models with Raven Guard Chapter Tactics anywhere on the board. That sure is an amazing upgrade. Internet sure would be pissed off. Wouldn't ever be seen in a tournament, though. No need to waste 5 points.
   
Made in us
Freaky Flayed One





I usually get reserve manipulation through hyperlogic strategy. It's a 4 so it's fairly common to see it every other game. I've only had one game out of the 12 I've played so far where one drake did not come in. Even if it doesn't, the only army I'm afraid of having it on the table for right away is Tnids.
   
 
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