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Hi there I am entered into an 1850pt tournament at the beginning of September. I have 2 lists right now and would like some feedback on the lists as which one would be more synergistic or overall "better". The only thing I do not wish to change is the command squad as I love this unit and wish to play with it. Any questions just let me know and thank you for your time!

List 1:

HQ:
Chapter master- Gorgon's chain, AA, TH, Digital Weapons, Bike 255

Elite:
Command squad-2 Power swords, 2 TH, apothecary, 4 storm shield, bikes 270

Troop:
Bike Squad(7)- 2 Melta Sargent- PF 192
Bike Squad(7)- 2 Melta Sargent- PF 192

Formation:

Librarius Conclave:

Librarian(LV2)- Bike, Force Sword 110
Librarian(LV2)- Bike, Force Sword 110
Librarian(LV2)- Bike, Mindforge Stave 125

Armoured Task Force:

Techmarine- Conversion Beamer, Ironstone
Predator- Autocannon, side Lascannons, DB 125
Vindicator- SS 135
Vindicator- SS 135
Wirldwind- HKM 75

Total: 1849



List 2

HQ:
Chapter master- Gorgon's chain, AA, TH, Digital Weapons, Bike 255

Elite:
Command squad-2 Power swords, 2 TH, apothecary, 4 storm shield, bikes 270

Troop:
Bike Squad(7)- 2 Melta Sergeant- PF 192
Bike Squad(7)- 2 Melta Sergeant- PF 192

Fast Attack:
Scout Biker(6)- 3 Grenade Laucher, Sargent- PF MB Veteran 163
Land Speeder(3)- 3 Typhoon ML 210
Assault Squad(10)- 2 Flamers, Sergeant- PF Veteran 220
Formation:

Librarius Conclave:

Librarian(LV2)- Bike, Force Sword 110
Librarian(LV2)- Bike, Force Sword 110
Librarian(LV2)- Bike, Mindforge Stave 125

Just my thoughts;

List 1:

I'd say the bike squads don't need to be as large (5 rather than 7), the powerfist will be lucky to ever get used and against vehicles meltabombs are just as good. As boring as it sounds, I'd want grav on those bikes instead of melta too (maybe not as universal, but that's 6 dice rather than 2 against viable targets).

I would drop the pred and HKM on the whirlwind for three plain old whirlwinds, or, drop both for two thunderfires. Then, taking the saved points from powerfists and losing a biker or four, buy a dev squad with some lascannons. Hmm, maybe just two whirlwinds so there's a bit more to spend on the devs...

List 2:
If you want to take full advantage of Fast Attack, ally-in Ravenwing. Normal marines don't give you enough FA slots to make the most of the style plus DA get some nice bonuses. This steers the whole list away from Iron Hands though obviously.

@ flood

I would love to use grav weapons if I had any. I also only own 1 Whirlwind and only added it to fill in points (and am I glad I did!). I also do not own any Thunderfire Cannons. I do have lots of special weapons to make dev squads with though.
As for the raven wings in the second list, I do not own the new codex, which is the main problem for that one.

Also thanks for the feedback. Do you think taking some points away to get some rifleman dreds is worth it?

Chapter Master Smashfucker needs Burning Blade rather than chain. Put everyone on bikes and choose Flesh is Weak, ally in Ravenwing and you're done.

Drop the digital weapons and a hunter killer missile and get a lightning claw or something on that smashfether for the extra attack.

Barring that, the only thing I could suggest is what has already been suggested - more grav. It is the crutch that props up our codex.

Lunacara wrote:
@ flood

I would love to use grav weapons if I had any. I also only own 1 Whirlwind and only added it to fill in points (and am I glad I did!). I also do not own any Thunderfire Cannons. I do have lots of special weapons to make dev squads with though.
As for the raven wings in the second list, I do not own the new codex, which is the main problem for that one.

Also thanks for the feedback. Do you think taking some points away to get some rifleman dreds is worth it?

Well, if they're strict about WYSIWYG and you're limited by models, which models do you have to work with?

@rowboatjellyfanxiii- why burning blade over +1 fnp rolls and eternal warrior? Also ravenwing is not an option at this time due to low funds
@Crazyterran- I do agree on the DW and HKM. Though isnt the lightning claw a specialist weapon and not give the +1 to attacks?
@flood- yes they are extremely WYSIWYG

I have the following models that I am not using atm or are not in the lists:
6 full squads tac marines can outfit with most older weapons, just not grav
2 squads of tac marines w/ ccw bp
10 assault marines
10 assault termys- 3 LC 7 TH SS
15 DV terminators 1 CML termy
heavy weapon marines- 6 las, 4 ML, 4MM, 6PC, 4 HB
15 scouts- 10 ccw bp, 5 sniper
command squad
5 honor guard

high martial
2 chaplains
3 DV librarians
termy librarian
termy chaplain

3 dreads- can make 2 rifleman and only 1 MM( i do have like 1 PC and a bunch of other arms for them as well just no ML)
1 ironclad- most options for him
2 land raiders- one can be crusader or redeemer and the second one is half built but can only be redeemer or crusader
storm raven- all magnetized
3 drop pods- all SB
3 rhinos- one top to make a razor back (only las or AC)
2 land speeders- one HF MM, one half built(prob TML)

Well this is definitely leaning towards my own personal preferences, so feel free to ignore anything you don't like here;

HQ:
Chapter master- Gorgon's chain, AA, TH, Bike - 245

Elite:
Command squad - 2x Power swords, 2x TH, apothecary, 4x storm shield, bikes - 270

Troop: - 260
Bike Squad(5) - 2x Melta, Sergeant w/ Meltabombs
Bike Squad(5) - 2x Melta, Sergeant w/ Meltabombs

Fast Attack - 105
Drop pod
Drop pod
Drop pod

Heavy: - 400
Dev Squad (5) - 3x Lascannon + Razorback w/ Lascannon
Dev Squad (5) - 3x Lascannon
Whirlwind

Librarius Conclave: - 345
Librarian(LV2)- Bike, Force Sword
Librarian(LV2)- Bike, Force Sword
Librarian(LV2)- Bike, Mindforge Stave


10th Company Task Force: - 224
Scout Squad w/ Sniper rifles
Scout Squad w/ ccw
Scout Squad w/ ccw
Scout bike Squad

Total: 1849
edited for point summary

So that's four units infiltrating, two pods T1, all in their grill and going for objective control from the get go. These will die but that formation cover save bonus should help keep them annoying.
That early stage positioning should give your real punch, the chappy-command-conclave, some space to get into position unmolested.
The devs lend long-range support and anti-armour (anti-air at a pinch, the list is hurting for some proper AA).
Whirlwind offers minimal anti-horde early on.
The bike squads are going to miss grav dearly, but can still threaten.

edit - changed drop pods to FA

@ flood
Do you find that 5 man bike squads are big enough that they survive long enough? As well I already have the sergeants with powerfist modeled already. I can make more to reflect this change though. As well is there any reasoning for only 3 las in each devastator or just because of only 6 las total limit? Also if I am correct a droppod counts as a scoring unit if had a troop choice in there originally? Also am I assuming that the scouts are all 5 each (snipers and CCW) and the Bikes are 6? I do also have a aegis defense line if that makes things easier that I forgot to mention.

Once again thanks for the list. Just trying to see where your mind was in your choices.

edit: Scouts cannot take drop pods I thought?
edit 2: I also just picked up a storm talon to help with some AA as well

The bikes will die, but then everything does with marines. As long as they make it to their target and do the job that's all that matters. Feeding up cheap threats like scouts can help pull some of that firepower away from them early on. To my mind, 5 bikes are 2 special weapons and 3 ablative wounds.

sorry I was mixed up with the pods, they should be in FA slots with the CAD. If taken with troops they would be ob-sec, they score normally. All the scouts are 5 each and the bikes are 5 total (so 2 melta, sarge and 2 guys).

3 las was around your models, but 3 should do for most things really. If it isn't popped you've hopefully disabled it through weapon destroyed/immobilised. If not the second squad can finish it off.

Aegis is okay for your devs to sit in. I love stormtalons Need two though.

@ flood
I do agree on storm talons need at least 2 to be optimal. I never thought of using devastator squads really before, so that definitely helped. Also on the 10th company task force, I cannot make it cost 224. Closest I got was 244 using only 3 scout bikers with no upgrades and a scout squad with snipers.

2 Scout squads of 4 scouts + Sgt, all with ccw.
1 Scout Squad of 4 scouts + Sgt, all with snipers.
1 barebones Scout bike squad.
224pts

@ flood

Checked army builder and I clicked camo cloaks was the reason... all makes sense now. I did end up making another list after thinking about what you said. What do you think about this one?

HQ
CM- bike, TH, AA, Gorgon's Chain 245

Elite
Command- 2TH, 2PS, 4 SS, Apoth, Bikes 270

Troop
Bikes(5)- 2 MG Sergeant- PF, veteran 160
Bikes(5)- 2 MG Sergeant- PF, veteran 160
Tac(5)- Las, Drop Pod-DWML 140
Tac(5)- Las, Drop Pod-DWML 140
Scout(5)- snipers, Camo Cloak 70

Fast Attack
Scout Bike(5)- 3 AGL, Sergeant- Locator Beacon, Melta Bomb 120

Heavy
Dev(5)- 4 Las, Drop Pod- DWML 200

Formation:
Librarius Conclave
Librarian- Bike, LV2, Force Sword 110
Librarian- Bike, LV2, Force Sword 110
Librarian- Bike, LV2, Mindforge Staff 125

Total:1850

Both scouts deploy by infiltrate and the scout bikes try to get within 6-9" of an objective for the turn 1 drop pod assault (2 tac pods) for objective secured. Tac squads and Dev squad sit back and give long range support for bikes to move up. Bike squads move up and go for harder armor or turbo onto objectives. Command squad and friends move up the middle or flank and just wreck everything that they touch.

I'd give the tacs a flamer or heavy bolter and get them mid-field camping an objective via the pods. Those pods don't always go where you want them, hopping out 6" helps.

You have two speeders don't you? They might be better than one scout bike squad for zipping around, jinking everything and scoring.

I'd still drop the PF and vet for sgt's, just taking meltabombs and saving 60pts. Then, switching out the tact las' would give enough for a las-plas razorback or whirlwind. Marines suck in assault (barring HQ's), I don't like wasting points trying to make it work.

Conclave's boss. Just be careful of getting the lump of CM-Command-Conclave tarpitted. If they aren't killing stuff outright every turn, they're going to waste.

Again, this is just my opinion,

I'm not a big marine player, but how bout a demi-company? Or a battle company? I don't know if the chapter master is allowed in the demi- or battle company but all the free transport and pods (objective secured bullets really) would help out a lot. Then your 10th company task force can be your auxiliary requirement.

my 2 cents

Sorry I have been away for a few days.
@ Flood- After a game this weekend I can definitely see putting the marines into the pods to get up and close, or make them 10 strong and combat squad them. The 2 speeder I found out the hard way attracts all their AT, as there is little armor that they can crack in the list already and First Blood can usually swing a game for me. I have found that the scout bikes just were not cutting it and the scouts themselves are also not working. Droping the PF and vet is an awesome idea, as I should just shoot with them, or get them close to vehicles only. For AA I have thought of taking 4 ML dev squad with Flak, for 40 pts more I think this should allow me to clear just the troublesome flyers and just ignore any others that are not as scary. I have thought of also putting the ML behind an Aegis Defence Line, but I think that 100pts for AA only is not worth it in the army?

@ Castellan Alaric- I have tried to get the battle company to work, but with the high cost of the conclave and chapter master and command squad, it just doesn't leave much left to make things work. Also for the free transports all I have are 2 RB, 2 Rhinos, and 3 Drop pods, so I do not benefit as greatly as someone who owns 10 RB already.

I myself took a thrashing from the Eldar 3-flyer formation the other day against my 2x Stormtalons, so I'm looking at swapping out my 3rd TFC for a Stalker as additional AA. Or an Aegis with one scout squad sitting on it.

Shame you didn't like the scouts, I've found them really useful in that early game push (LSS doesn't move, gets a 3+ jink, guys inside effectively give it overwatch).
Not fond of devs myself (too static); doubling up to ensure you get the target down is 340pts. Bit pricey. They do get that bs2 shot and can multi-purpose mind you. Definitely worth a test run.
Speeders can work ( I love 'em), but certainly need some care.