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It would be great to see some more variation in guard armies. The guard is one of the most varied armies in the 40k universe. You have Cadians, Catachans, Vostroyans, Steel Legion, Valhallans, Tallarn... GW made their own unique looks, fluff, preferred tactics, and so on. How about some codex supplements, some new models, (not the stupid metal ones) faction-unique formations, and some conversion bits to make the guard feel more fleshed out. And while we're at it, let's do the same with Orks, eh? They've got their own unique tribes and whatnot too.

If Marines can have chapters, and Eldar can have craftworlds, AND FW can give us the Death Korps and Elysians, GW can cook up something patrons of the Guard and Orks will enjoy playing and collecting. Hell, at the very least, it would shake up the game a little bit, so that not all guard and ork armies feel the same to play/play against.

If GW released plastic Vostroyans, I would seriously consider starting Guard.

I could be very wrong, but I do not think the Ork tribes LOOK all that different, similar to the Eldar Craftworlds. They would probably not need any special models, but a supplement with Formations to play different tribes would be very cool!

If GW brought out rules for Valhallans and brought out plastic models for them, I'd collect them instantly haha. Though I just recently got the rules and some models for the Death Korps, which, IMO, are arguably some of the best minis in this hobby to date

Valhallan and vostroyans plastics can be achieved through madrobot miniatures, they have compatible heads.

 Big Mac wrote:
Valhallan and vostroyans plastics can be achieved through madrobot miniatures, they have compatible heads.

Also, they just released Steel Legion lookalikes.

Feral orks could be neat, using medieval catapults against rhinos and whatnot. I imagine they'd be even cheaper than normal boyz.

 Lukash_ wrote:

 Big Mac wrote:
Valhallan and vostroyans plastics can be achieved through madrobot miniatures, they have compatible heads.

Also, they just released Steel Legion lookalikes.

The quality of the minis isn't that amazing though. Plus they wouldn't be allowed at most tournaments, as they aren't legit 40k minis

Tiberius501 wrote:

 Lukash_ wrote:

 Big Mac wrote:
Valhallan and vostroyans plastics can be achieved through madrobot miniatures, they have compatible heads.

Also, they just released Steel Legion lookalikes.

The quality of the minis isn't that amazing though. Plus they wouldn't be allowed at most tournaments, as they aren't legit 40k minis

Yeah, that's the main issue. Besides... to me they just don't look right. I mean, they could pass as what they're intended to be, but they're not TRUE Valhallans, Vostroyans, Steel Legion, ect. I dunno, I'd just like GW themselves to show some love to the factions they created.

Plus, as people mentioned, I'm pretty sure way more people would play Guard and Orks of this happened.

(WHICH ALSO MEANS YOU'D SELL MORE MODELS, IF THE FOLKS AT GW ARE READING THIS. HINT HINT)

 Yack Maniels wrote:

Tiberius501 wrote:

 Lukash_ wrote:

 Big Mac wrote:
Valhallan and vostroyans plastics can be achieved through madrobot miniatures, they have compatible heads.

Also, they just released Steel Legion lookalikes.

The quality of the minis isn't that amazing though. Plus they wouldn't be allowed at most tournaments, as they aren't legit 40k minis

Yeah, that's the main issue. Besides... to me they just don't look right. I mean, they could pass as what they're intended to be, but they're not TRUE Valhallans, Vostroyans, Steel Legion, ect. I dunno, I'd just like GW themselves to show some love to the factions they created.

While I think other companies do the guard a lot better... and love the metal models...

GW will not release new plastics for the Imperial Guard I reckon. I have been waiting a long time for just rules new models or anything. I think they are slowly going to create and keep the Imperial guard as Cadians. The latest book is almost all Cadians and all the releases are Cadian. I hope I am wrong but give it time and it will only be Cadians.

Personally, when they AOS 40k I reckon they will change the fluff for just Cadians and maybe have a bit of room for Catachans.

Tiberius501 wrote:

 Lukash_ wrote:

 Big Mac wrote:
Valhallan and vostroyans plastics can be achieved through madrobot miniatures, they have compatible heads.

Also, they just released Steel Legion lookalikes.

The quality of the minis isn't that amazing though. Plus they wouldn't be allowed at most tournaments, as they aren't legit 40k minis

Quality is very subjective, while I don't like their long coat and certain heads, most are quite great and can be kit based together with existing GW kits to make them tourney legal. You just have to be more imaginative with a bitz site, they also have a 'make your own' squad builder so you aren't restricted to anything.

here are some of my experiences with kitbashing:

I really like that (command squad I assume?) in the second photo!

 Big Mac wrote:
Valhallan and vostroyans plastics can be achieved through madrobot miniatures, they have compatible heads.

But they're not plastic and the sculpts are pretty ugly, so it's not really a good solution.

If GW made plastic Valhallans I'd get another platoon in a heartbeat. The addition of chapter tactics-esque rules for Orks and IG would make tons of sense and it frustrates me they haven't done it since 4th edition.

You can do a lot with kit bashing and paint schemes, but additional options are always welcome.

Here are just some of my models for inspiration.

Oh man, Hotshots and Hostile Environement maks, that's awesome, gotta be costly tho.

I really don't know why they will not upgrade the Cadian kit, or make a veteran kit that comes with those helmets. They look absolutely stunning and give the guard such a cool look. 30 dollars for 10 helmets and a couple of extra bits is a really over costed requirement to make your guard look cool.

Shall I play devil's advocate? Why not, it'll be fun.

The reason GW won't expand IG is because they simply don't sell enough. You've got the dedicated collecting community that'll buy new variants, but those models to the core demographic are just not that appealing; Vostroyans look cool to a lot, but they're not in the big glossy books nearly as much as the Cadians and, to a lesser extent (probably because GW wants to kill them dead) the Catachans.

The sculpting process, manufacture of molds and distribution are just too much of a cost to take up.

The best I think we can reasonably expect is possibly some FW stuff in the near future for both. Maybe an IA book with some stuff, but nothing in the way of a codex supplement sold on the main storefront.

(By the way, I'd rather they brought back Mordians)

 BlapBlapBlap wrote:
Shall I play devil's advocate? Why not, it'll be fun.

The reason GW won't expand IG is because they simply don't sell enough. You've got the dedicated collecting community that'll buy new variants, but those models to the core demographic are just not that appealing; Vostroyans look cool to a lot, but they're not in the big glossy books nearly as much as the Cadians and, to a lesser extent (probably because GW wants to kill them dead) the Catachans.

The sculpting process, manufacture of molds and distribution are just too much of a cost to take up.

The best I think we can reasonably expect is possibly some FW stuff in the near future for both. Maybe an IA book with some stuff, but nothing in the way of a codex supplement sold on the main storefront.

(By the way, I'd rather they brought back Mordians)

Yeah, but you catch more with a wider net, if you catch my drift.

And I forgot about the Mordians, they're cool too.

Of course IG don't sell enough, if they had good rules people would be flocking to buy and play them. No one sane would invest 700 or more $ in to a faction that doesn't play at all. Give IG rules like necron or eldar, and everyone will be buying them, not just people that want to play IG, but also those who want to ally them in. Right now IG is not good even as ally for IoM armies.

Makumba wrote:
Of course IG don't sell enough, if they had good rules people would be flocking to buy and play them. No one sane would invest 700 or more $ in to a faction that doesn't play at all. Give IG rules like necron or eldar, and everyone will be buying them, not just people that want to play IG, but also those who want to ally them in. Right now IG is not good even as ally for IoM armies.

I think you're exagerrating a tad. IG are far from unplayable. They're inconsistent at points, yes, seeing as one of their strongest features (orders) is based entirely on dice rolls, but they will generally be able to put up a fight. Also, they're fun for all players, which neither of those other armies are when optimized.

An army doesn't have to be tournament tier to sell, especially seeing as most players never participate in a tournament beyond their FLGS. An army has to be, for the most part, easy to understand (but with some depth), easy to collect and easy to play to be popular.

Horde armies, such as IG and Orks, fail on the easy collection criteria. You can't build armies out of battleforces, so the huge amounts of models make it very difficult to convince little Timmy's parents to buy anything playable. SM need two Tac squads, a captain and a tank to reach 1000pts, while a guard player needs a lot more.

Lmao, I guess "good rules" means having the ability to make a completely broken tourney list.

i think making faction supplements for either guard or orks will bring in some customers and also appease dedicated fans.

i do orks, the ghaz supplement was a step in the right direction but could use some tweeks when doing more supplements. introducing either a decurian or more formations that are smaller and easier to put in smaller point games with rules that help influence buying models and using units that have bad rulz.
its a way they could fix the screw ups they did in the ork codex.

and while ork factions come right to mind i would like to see waaagh specific supplements. how cool would it be for a "waaagh arch-arsonist" book that turned all ork flamer weapons into torrent weapons with its formations. it would be hilarious if such a supplement had a rule that only allowed victory for orks if 50 to 75% of the enemy was killed with flamers.
"the arch-arsonist counts his victories not by the worlds he has conquered but by those left blazing in his wake."

That'll be difficult, most armies I see these days that aren't orks are about 25% infantry.

geargutz wrote:
i think making faction supplements for either guard or orks will bring in some customers and also appease dedicated fans.

i do orks, the ghaz supplement was a step in the right direction but could use some tweeks when doing more supplements. introducing either a decurian or more formations that are smaller and easier to put in smaller point games with rules that help influence buying models and using units that have bad rulz.
its a way they could fix the screw ups they did in the ork codex.

and while ork factions come right to mind i would like to see waaagh specific supplements. how cool would it be for a "waaagh arch-arsonist" book that turned all ork flamer weapons into torrent weapons with its formations. it would be hilarious if such a supplement had a rule that only allowed victory for orks if 50 to 75% of the enemy was killed with flamers.
"the arch-arsonist counts his victories not by the worlds he has conquered but by those left blazing in his wake."

The problem is that it costs too much, and, as I said earlier, the rate of investment of these armies is lower than many other armies. Think about it; publishing fees, the price of bringing in artists, and the price to distibute and market the product probably run in the tens of thousands for a supplement. Considering the uphill struggle of investing some £100 into rulebooks along with at least £200 in models for most people new players are unlikely, and older players mostly won't invest a new book that doesn't involve their faction, which, considering the low numbers proportionally of these armies against MEQ (the factions with the most supplements) doesn't bring in much.

The effect is ultimately minimal in bringing in sales; you can expect the majority of the army's players to buy supplements, and depending on the popularity in general among players more or less people buying in. It can act as a catalyst to turn people over, but for most people the sheer model cost makes this unlikely for hordes, even with shiny new rules. If they made a totally unhinged ruleset, maybe, other than that no.

 BlapBlapBlap wrote:
An army doesn't have to be tournament tier to sell, especially seeing as most players never participate in a tournament beyond their FLGS. An army has to be, for the most part, easy to understand (but with some depth), easy to collect and easy to play to be popular.

Horde armies, such as IG and Orks, fail on the easy collection criteria. You can't build armies out of battleforces, so the huge amounts of models make it very difficult to convince little Timmy's parents to buy anything playable. SM need two Tac squads, a captain and a tank to reach 1000pts, while a guard player needs a lot more.

As an Ork player, I have to agree with the points being made.

I was setting up for a casual game at my FLGS, I was running a green tide and had finally set up all 100+ models when a woman and her son walked into the store. The kid came over and just stared. When the mom came over, he told her he wanted my little green men. As I explained to her the time and effort it took (my army was 90% painted and based), I could see her shutting down. And she turned to her son and tried to explain why he wasn't going to get any of the green men. And then my friend got back from the car with his army--Tyranids. I think the sad part of it all was that if either me or my friend had been playing a non-horde army, I think she might have bought her kid a kit.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
Feral orks could be neat, using medieval catapults against rhinos and whatnot. I imagine they'd be even cheaper than normal boyz.

Three point boyz, you say?

600 orks on the table, you say?

As it stands now, there really only is one "style" of play with the current codex. My guard army is mostly close combat oriented with Mordian Iron Guard-esque dress uniforms from Cadian and Empire Pistoliers kits, yet the codex doesn't really allow for my army to be represented very well.

Obviously it's not practical to have codecies for every play style for the guard as that would be unrealistic. Instead we should go back to the old days with Doctrines, something I've advocated loudly for since they took it out two codecies ago.

*Sigh*
Multipart plastic Vostroyans... One can dream, no?

I don't think orks really need stuff like that. What they do need is more formations and to expand on that more clan related formations. As far as new units related to clans and such, there isn't too much that isn't already covered. All I could imagine is like a white dwarf special for feral orks that are like 5 points and don't have a slugga or stickboms and can't take eavy armor just an extra mele weapon. They could replace upgrades like the big shoota and rokkit with melee weapons and expand the squad size to be up to 40 with options for more than one nob upgrade and a painboy upgrade.

Also old mob rule for them so they aren't completely useless.

 Yaavaragefinkinman wrote:
I don't think orks really need stuff like that. What they do need is more formations and to expand on that more clan related formations. As far as new units related to clans and such, there isn't too much that isn't already covered. All I could imagine is like a white dwarf special for feral orks that are like 5 points and don't have a slugga or stickboms and can't take eavy armor just an extra mele weapon. They could replace upgrades like the big shoota and rokkit with melee weapons and expand the squad size to be up to 40 with options for more than one nob upgrade and a painboy upgrade.

Also old mob rule for them so they aren't completely useless.

You're reminding me of the Third Edition rulebook, where each army had a rule they could choose (indeed, there was a feral Ork version, but it wasn't that good; you got boarboyz and weirdboyz while sacrificing everything mechanised while keeping basic shootas and sluggas). I can't remember what they were called, but they were basically what the OP is implying here; you could bring back the Armoured Company IG, that was dumb/stupid/awesome ("What's that, you're list has two anti-tank weapons? Sucks to be you!").