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After some informative and creative discussion with other Dakka members about the ScreamerStar's role and viability in the current meta I decided to do my best to write something of an out-of-the-box and hopefully competitive list using the ScreamerStar as I still find it to be a corner stone for competitive Daemons (or at least the one's in my model collection ). So here it is: ScreamerStar and highly buffable Daemon Knight backed by a fair amount of cheap, reasonably durable Renegade Artillery that can put out some hurt for the points.

Daemon CAD

Fateweaver
Tz'erald: ML3, Disc, Grimoire
Tz'erald: ML3, Disc

11x Horrors
3x Nurglings

8x Screamers

Chaos Knight Errant: Khorne, Dirge Caster

VSG w/ 3 Shields

Renegades of Vraks CAD

Renegade Command Squad (75)
-Arch Demaogue w/ Ordnance Tyrant upgrade (allows Field Artillery to fire into combat FTW)
-4x Desciples


10x Mutant Rabble (30)

10x Mutant Rabble (30)

Renegade Field Artillery Battery (90)
3x Heavy Quad Launcher
9x Renegade Crew


Renegade Field Artillery Battery (90)
3x Heavy Quad Launcher
9x Renegade Crew


Renegade Rapier Laser Destroyer Battery (79)
3x Rapier Laser Destroyers
6x Crew
-Militia Training (+1 BS)

Each Field Artillery unit consists of 15 T7 Wounds and puts out 12 S5 AP5 small blasts w/ Barrage special rule.

Rapier Destroyer Battery consists of 9 T7 Wounds and fires 3 TL S9 AP1 Ordnance shots. Demagogue goes here and allows them to snapfire at BS2.

EDIT: List updated to included to Captyn_Bob's most astute suggestion of Vraks Ordnance Tyrant to allow Field Artillery to shoot into combat.

What do you think? ScreamerStar and Knight handle buffs and board control while the ragtag militia blasts away. Lining up combats with the 2++ rerollable ScreamerStar and Knight in order to pound bunched up units seems likely a fairly viable tactic to use against a lot of stuff in the game.

Have you considered the vraks ordnance tyrant? Shooting into combat ftw

This list looks like fun. I would try working in some of those cheap-as-chips chaos spawn, if for anything to run interference for your shooting phase. It's probably a tough choice on what to prune to fit them in, though.

I am counting down the days for the 'experimental phase' of the Chaos Knights rules to pass.

Captyn_Bob wrote:Have you considered the vraks ordnance tyrant? Shooting into combat ftw

I was not aware of those rules, but will definitely look into it. That's actually a totally viable concept with the 2++ rerollable.

Thantos Kalev wrote:This list looks like fun. I would try working in some of those cheap-as-chips chaos spawn, if for anything to run interference for your shooting phase. It's probably a tough choice on what to prune to fit them in, though.

I am counting down the days for the 'experimental phase' of the Chaos Knights rules to pass.

I reeeeallly wanted some obsec spawn in there, but there's just so little room. The Daemons part of the list is stripped down as far as I'm willing to go and I don't want to lose an artillery battery.



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Man just got a look at those Vraks rules, and all I can picture is a big multi assault with a 2++ ScreamerStar followed up by a round of Prescienced Quad Launcher bombardment. Probably harder to pull off than it sounds, but man when it works, will it ever work.

Looks pretty decent. I'd swap the vets for mutants (equally useless, but cheaper with twice the bodies), and maybe squeeze in a heavy weapon on the command squad, just to give them something to do. Oh and FYI the rapiers can't snap fire (ordnance).

 Vomikron Noxis wrote:
Looks pretty decent. I'd swap the vets for mutants (equally useless, but cheaper with twice the bodies), and maybe squeeze in a heavy weapon on the command squad, just to give them something to do. Oh and FYI the rapiers can't snap fire (ordnance).

Good call on the mutants and thanks for the heads up on the ordnance and snap shots. Not too concerned any more though since I'll definitely be switching over to Vraks Renegades for the Ordnance Tyrant. Firing into combat + making the field artillery ObSec = double win. I'm not sure if the Rapier Batteries even fit the list too well, but I'm also unsure of what to do with the points.

what is VSG w/ 3 shields? Can the Tiny Chaos Imperial Knight Titan get 3 Void Shield Generators?

Void Shield Generator as in the fortification that allows you to take 3 projected void shields.

Any other thoughts? Could this actually be competitive?

Hey Astro_nomicon,

I like the list. There is one concern however and I'm curious as to your experience.

When playing Chaos lists I have noticed that for a list to be truely competitive (in my hands at least) it needs more focus.

I'm always playing around with shooty elements in assaulty lists or with static elements in fast lists and I've not yet been able to make a list that makes it work. In my experience that kind of disparity in a list gives the opponent the room to focus on what it can handle.

The Screamers and the Knight give you speed and some boardcontrol, but for instance Eldar Scatbike/WarpSpider/Swoopings Hawk-lists have the speed to move away from these elements without loosing to much of their damageoutput.

On the other hand your static firepower element has great resilience, but I wonder if the damage-output is enough to do enough to for instance Necrons, hit and run deathstars or opposing Daemons (especially since combat offers an easy escape and these lists have the speed to be in your face from turn 2 onwards).

Having more bodies to keep up with the Knight and the Screamers also gives you some abilty to protect vs. Demi-Company droppods with Melta's/Grav-weapons. A list like that could really damage you if it got first turn and you have no buffs up yet. The VSG helps somewhat, but I think some screening Spawn and/of Fleshhounds could be of more use against all the issues mentioned.

Interested to see how you fare with this list. Battrep please!

Cilithan

 astro_nomicon wrote:
Void Shield Generator as in the fortification that allows you to take 3 projected void shields.

Any other thoughts? Could this actually be competitive?

Ok I thought it was a knight upgrade. are vsg in the main rulebook?

Cilithan wrote:Hey Astro_nomicon,

I like the list. There is one concern however and I'm curious as to your experience.

When playing Chaos lists I have noticed that for a list to be truely competitive (in my hands at least) it needs more focus.

I'm always playing around with shooty elements in assaulty lists or with static elements in fast lists and I've not yet been able to make a list that makes it work. In my experience that kind of disparity in a list gives the opponent the room to focus on what it can handle.

Thanks for your thoughts. This is really my first attempt at bringing a significant shooting presence to a Daemons army (well aside from trying Flyrants with Daemons but that's a little different as the Flyrants are far from static), and really I think you've hit the nail on the head here. It is difficult to do, but my hope is that since the Screamers and Knight are potentially VERY to tough to deal with that the artillery elements will have just enough time to pick off small targets and soften up big ones to a point that the Screamers, Knight, and to an extent, Fateweaver can deal with them. This is kind of a thought experiment, but something I'd love to try out.

The Screamers and the Knight give you speed and some boardcontrol, but for instance Eldar Scatbike/WarpSpider/Swoopings Hawk-lists have the speed to move away from these elements without loosing to much of their damageoutput.

On the other hand your static firepower element has great resilience, but I wonder if the damage-output is enough to do enough to for instance Necrons, hit and run deathstars or opposing Daemons (especially since combat offers an easy escape and these lists have the speed to be in your face from turn 2 onwards).

Well the thing of beauty is, combat DOES NOT keep you safe from the potential 24 S5 AP5 barrages the Field Artillery brings to bear. I haven't edited the OP to reflect it, but as one of our astute colleagues pointed out, upgrading the Arch Demagogue to an Ordnance Tyrant allows you to fire weapons with both the Barrage and Blast rules into combat. Considering that you can buff up a ScreamerStar to a 2++ rerollable, and that the S5 can't hurt a Knight, getting stuck in combat and bunching up enemy models for a bunch of Prescienced blasts could actually be quite devastating with minimal risk to your own forces.

I'm less worried about Eldar with this list because if they're moving away from the Screamers and Knight, they're not likely going to be hitting too hard against the artillery, and with 60" range they have the reach to cover most of the board. Flicker jump wont save you today Spiders. Scat bikes are still a problem, but what's new? They're one of the main reasons I don't just slap down a ton o' Hounds to rush forward with the Star and the Knight. Just too damn fast and with the range and firepower to pepper the Hounds to ineffectiveness before they can get stuck in. Though I still like the idea of tons o' hounds.

Hit and Run Deathstars are probably one of the scariest things to this list. Specifically the ones with lots of Iron Priests on TWM. I just don't know if the Screamers and Knight would be enough to contain its huge footprint before my lines get overrun. At best I'm hoping that 2 rounds of barrage shooting could possibly take out a key character (like an Apothecary) or at least whittle down the ablative wounds so that the Knight at least has a chance of killing some of the real damage dealers. By the way, can you Hit and Run THROUGH the unit you're lockied

Having more bodies to keep up with the Knight and the Screamers also gives you some abilty to protect vs. Demi-Company droppods with Melta's/Grav-weapons. A list like that could really damage you if it got first turn and you have no buffs up yet. The VSG helps somewhat, but I think some screening Spawn and/of Fleshhounds could be of more use against all the issues mentioned.

Interested to see how you fare with this list. Battrep please!

Cilithan

If I do ever get around to proxying all the Renegade stuff I'll definitely give it a write up!

Filch wrote:

 astro_nomicon wrote:
Void Shield Generator as in the fortification that allows you to take 3 projected void shields.

Any other thoughts? Could this actually be competitive?

Ok I thought it was a knight upgrade. are vsg in the main rulebook?

Stronghold Assault I think? It's the book with all the fortifications. Basically every unit within 12" inches is protected by 3 AV12 hull points. They cannot take wounds from shooting coming from outside of the Shields until the Shields are removed by either a glancing or penetrating hit.

Bump for "You can't hide in CC" update.

Nice to see the finished list. Not sure what I would change if anything.

Having never run a screamerstar I would probably go for a more aggressived daemonkin version. Maybe with two knights and a bunch of other war machines. An aegis line to boost survival of the artillery and heralds to switch in and pop up a unit that's gone to ground. Vsg is a bit easier tho I guess, if you can source one.

Seems a shame not to take earthshakers, althought they do increase the risk from friendly fire.

Ofc I'm never going to actually buy the artillery I need, despite already having converted up an ordnance tyrant.


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Have you looked at the purge detachment? I'm not a big fan but you might be able to trim some points with it.

Just keep in mind that for your demagogue to use Ordnance Tyrant he has to also be your warlord

Captyn_Bob wrote:Nice to see the finished list. Not sure what I would change if anything.

Having never run a screamerstar I would probably go for a more aggressived daemonkin version. Maybe with two knights and a bunch of other war machines. An aegis line to boost survival of the artillery and heralds to switch in and pop up a unit that's gone to ground. Vsg is a bit easier tho I guess, if you can source one.

Seems a shame not to take earthshakers, althought they do increase the risk from friendly fire.

Ofc I'm never going to actually buy the artillery I need, despite already having converted up an ordnance tyrant.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Have you looked at the purge detachment? I'm not a big fan but you might be able to trim some points with it.

Glad you like it!

Haha I hear you on buying all that artillery. I think I'm buy and paint some super cheap toy artillery or something for fun games or until I decide I like it enough.

Will give the Purge Detachment a look as well

CrownAxe wrote:Just keep in mind that for your demagogue to use Ordnance Tyrant he has to also be your warlord

Good catch. As a long time ScreamerStar player it feels super weird not to have him as Warlord, but I guess that takes care of the warp storm table altogether as well.