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Got some used wolf guard terminators recently (9+arjac and logan) and noticed some are modelled with chainfist/ storm shield or storm bolter/chainfist with cyclone. I can't seem to find how to get this combo in the codex, I am dreading the possibility of arm chopping/rearranging.

The 9 non-character have the following:
2 with cyclone, storm bolter, chainfist (legal)
1 with dual wolf claw (this one is fine)
2 chainfist/storm shield
4 thunder hammer/storm shield (this one is fine too)

I painted them already and was hoping someone has a solution for me. :p

They were probably originally built using the last codex before the current one in which case terminators could freely mix and match their weapons. Some point costs for the wargear were pretty high to compensate for the freedom to pick and choose, but damn it was a fun and flavorful way to run terminators.

Thanks, I was thinking of changing the ones with shield/fist to shield/hammer or claw/fist. Can't really find an optimal way to run them, they are versatile.

Storm Bolter/Chain Fist/Cyclone is still an option, though you can only take 1 Cyclone per 5 WGT... and if you remove the Cyclone, Storm Bolter/Chain Fist is a combination you can run as many as you want.

Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield is a good build, and 5 of them plus Arjac is a Formation, I believe (I don't have "Champions of Fenris" at my fingertips, right now).

I do miss the days when Wolf Guard were just given free run of the armories of the Aett and just flat out could take whatever they wanted in whatever combination they wanted.

 zbg97 wrote:
Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield is a good build, and 5 of them plus Arjac is a Formation, I believe (I don't have "Champions of Fenris" at my fingertips, right now).

Arjac's Shield Brothers (aka the Hammer Bros) is all SS/TH Terminators with Arjac and a Land Raider Crusader. Only need the minimum amount of Terminators which is 3 but can add more if desired.

I would also note that arjac is no longer an upgrade for a termi squad, hes an IC now with his own elite entry. So he cant count towards the number of termis in a sqaud for heavy weapons.

I do miss the Storm Shield/Chainfist combo though. But chainfist/wolfclaw combo is pretty deadly.

 Fallenbourne wrote:
I would also note that arjac is no longer an upgrade for a termi squad, hes an IC now with his own elite entry. So he cant count towards the number of termis in a sqaud for heavy weapons.

I do miss the Storm Shield/Chainfist combo though. But chainfist/wolfclaw combo is pretty deadly.

Yes and no. He's an Elite IC, but the entry reads, "For every five models in the unit, one model may choose one of the following options:" Meanwhile, the Independent Character rule states, "An Independent Character can begin the game already with a unit". Everyone I play with plays this as if Arjac (or any IC) added to 4 WGT gives the unit five models, allowing one of the WGT to carry a Heavy Weapon. That is RAW, and it seems to be RAI (in the old 'Dex, Grey Hunters could only take 2 Special Weapons if there were 10 Grey Hunters in the unit, meaning putting 9 in a Pod with an IC stopped you from getting a second Special Weapon... because you needed 10 Grey Hunters, not 10 models).

I've successfully removed the chainfist arms from the 2 with shield/fist and gave them claws. The one with dual claws now has claw/chainfist. I guess I need 1 more termie since Arjac doesn't count, or use him as a TH/SS sergeant or Logan as a frost axe termie.

StrikerTommy wrote:
I've successfully removed the chainfist arms from the 2 with shield/fist and gave them claws. The one with dual claws now has claw/chainfist. I guess I need 1 more termie since Arjac doesn't count, or use him as a TH/SS sergeant or Logan as a frost axe termie.

Arjac does count toward the 5 models in the unit, allowing you to take the Cyclone; he just doesn't count as a Wolf Guard Terminator.

 zbg97 wrote:

 Fallenbourne wrote:
I would also note that arjac is no longer an upgrade for a termi squad, hes an IC now with his own elite entry. So he cant count towards the number of termis in a sqaud for heavy weapons.

I do miss the Storm Shield/Chainfist combo though. But chainfist/wolfclaw combo is pretty deadly.

Yes and no. He's an Elite IC, but the entry reads, "For every five models in the unit, one model may choose one of the following options:" Meanwhile, the Independent Character rule states, "An Independent Character can begin the game already with a unit". Everyone I play with plays this as if Arjac (or any IC) added to 4 WGT gives the unit five models, allowing one of the WGT to carry a Heavy Weapon. That is RAW, and it seems to be RAI (in the old 'Dex, Grey Hunters could only take 2 Special Weapons if there were 10 Grey Hunters in the unit, meaning putting 9 in a Pod with an IC stopped you from getting a second Special Weapon... because you needed 10 Grey Hunters, not 10 models).

Rules as written for army building requires the UNIT to meet the requirements for numbers to include certain equipment, because a special character is not included in the unit until play. Also when you need 10 models for a 2nd special weapon that means you either choose to have a 2nd special weapon in the squad or an IC in a drop pod, or you take both and give the unit a land raider redeemer as a transport. GW keeps changing what they intend with special and heavy weapons. Multiple incarnations of the chaos marine codex back I built my khorne marine squads with the proper 8 models each and they were able to have 2 special weapons. The next 2 incarnations of the codex require 10 models in the unit for the 2nd weapon. So GW doesn't even know what it is doing with it. Anyway while your house rule is neat, the claim that it is RAW is inaccurate as characters joining a unit in a game have zero to do with unit member number requirements for given equipment in army creation.

That was definitely the case in the last edition of the game and the last edition of the SW 'dex (the FAQ specified that it was 10 Grey Hunters, and you had to pick between the 2nd Special Weapon or the IC joining them, though the FAQ specifically mentioned the "10 Grey Hunters in the unit" wording as the reasoning). I'm not sure you're correct on the current status, since they've changed all the wordings in the current SW 'Dex to "models", and the current IC rule is written as, "An Independent Character can begin the game already with a unit [emphasis mine]".

I may have missed a rule, somewhere, but my usual group doesn't consider this a House Rule - we've looked, and we've talked, and we can't find anything in the current BRB or SW 'Dex that says (or even implies) what you're writing, Skriker. We may be wrong, but we haven't found anything that says as much. Are there specific rules backing what you're saying? Because you're absolutely right in that GW keeps changing both RAW and RAI, but I think you're using an out-of-date combination of rules... If you can find something specific, we definitely need to change what we're doing, since, as I said, this isn't intended to be a House Rule.

There is no specific rule, because you have to be the first person I've ever heard trying to mix army building and play rules together for an advantage like this. Yes GW has never quite been known for writing perfect clear and precise rules, like, ever, but there is a solid distinction and separation in the game between building your army and playing a game.

Army list entries focus solely on the unit in question and nothing else. If a character is a unit "upgrade" itself then it gets included in model counts in the unit. If the character has its own separate HQ or Elite entry in the army list it does not. A unit's options for upgrades based on number of models does not include any models but its own units numbers.

The Independent Character rules control the abilities and actions of an IC when playing the game. Playing the game is what happens AFTER you have built your force. It is not part of building your force. The other way this doesn't work is because the IC is not required to stay with a unit even if it starts the game with it and in your interpretation as soon as the IC leaves the unit in game the unit is no longer a valid and legal unit.

 Skriker wrote:
There is no specific rule, because you have to be the first person I've ever heard trying to mix army building and play rules together for an advantage like this. Yes GW has never quite been known for writing perfect clear and precise rules, like, ever, but there is a solid distinction and separation in the game between building your army and playing a game.

Army list entries focus solely on the unit in question and nothing else. If a character is a unit "upgrade" itself then it gets included in model counts in the unit. If the character has its own separate HQ or Elite entry in the army list it does not. A unit's options for upgrades based on number of models does not include any models but its own units numbers.

The Independent Character rules control the abilities and actions of an IC when playing the game. Playing the game is what happens AFTER you have built your force. It is not part of building your force. The other way this doesn't work is because the IC is not required to stay with a unit even if it starts the game with it and in your interpretation as soon as the IC leaves the unit in game the unit is no longer a valid and legal unit.

I've never actually run an army that way, and YMDC clarified my faulty memory of the FAQ from last edition. Oddly, the current build is set up to allow the exact example the old FAQ disallowed, but my understanding above was definitely in error.

No worries. Like I said you are free to play how you choose. The only concern is telling new players the wrong way. You have a nice variant and if it works for your group then no reason not to keep doing it.