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So I ran into a guy who asked me to join in a 3 way battle with his friend who he was teaching 40k to. Now, this guy played necrons and had his whole army unpainted and told me over and over how much he hated tau. He repeatedly would do things like pick up dice that failed to hit/wound before he thought anyone would notice, lied about what I needed to roll to wound, and would go so far as to not take models from the front of his unit after I corrected him. He literally took a guy from the back, then I told him to take it from the front, and put the guy back and proceeded to take a guy who wasn't closest to my shooting unit. He also ran unbound necrons and told me "no formations" when I asked if I could run a hunter cadre, he also brought the Deceiver and a flyer to a 500 point match. Now, to make things worse, after going home and looking at the necron codex, he somehow managed to fit 650 points into a 500 point game. I was also told by one of the better people at the store who I've a lot of respect for that the guy I played against cheats all the time consistently, and that a lot of people avoid him.

Problem is, I agreed to play against him the next day before the guy took me aside and told me my opponent was a TFG. I'm playing tau and trying to make the most absurd list possible to deal with him, and I'm going to try and rules lawyer him to death whilst checking his list before the match starts, but I'd love some input on how to deal with this guy.

Development: I played him at 1500 points. It was a 'close' game, but the moment I started to get a solid upper hand on him he got a call and said he had to bug out. Thing is, even though he wasn't winning he could of came back, and it could of been a good game. I did bring all my cheese though (I don't have the new mega gundam models, but i've two riptides, so I wouldn't say I was brining a stupidly OP list, even if it was the best I could bring with my collection as it stands.)

Whatever though. I talked with people at the store after he left and it turns out this is normal for him. He often goes 150-300 points over, and leaves because "Reason's not relating to him losing" whenever he starts to lose in the slightest. I also confronted him about his points being over by 150 the last time he played and he gave some confusing BS excuse, and I was like "Sure whatever." I did call him out for some stuff like picking up bad dice as if they weren't 1s, and asked to see his codex a few times when he did things that seemed fishy and caught him out once.

Anyways, I'm just going to not play him again, and take you guy's advice in that regard. The sad thing here though, is that after talking with him he seems like a really nice guy it's just... I think he's one of those guys who can't handle losing for whatever reason.

Why not just tell him why the last game left a sour taste in your mouth, and if you can't get it resolved, you'd rather do something else than play another game?

Turn up, tell him no one likes him and leave. A lot quicker, more productive and uses less of your time.

Or just say your GF is ill and you must walk her dog or something equally lame.

Being a dick back isn't going to teach him anything.

You don't owe him anything. Just don't bother.

If he asks, tell him he's a cheat (and you can point out how) and you'd rather not waste your time 'playing' him...

 Talys wrote:
Why not just tell him why the last game left a sour taste in your mouth, and if you can't get it resolved, you'd rather do something else than play another game?

This. He blatantly cheated, you have no obligation to keep a promise to play against him.

I'd turn up and tell him that either you play the game properly, or you are off. First sign of repeat behaviour, smile, shake his hand, tell him he's won, and start packing up your things.

Are we sure he cheated? Maybe he just has a bad attitude but sucks at basic addition.

 JamesY wrote:
I'd turn up and tell him that either you play the game properly, or you are off. First sign of repeat behaviour, smile, shake his hand, tell him he's won, and start packing up your things.

You sir, are a Gentleman and a Scholar.

 JamesY wrote:
I'd turn up and tell him that either you play the game properly, or you are off. First sign of repeat behaviour, smile, shake his hand, tell him he's won, and start packing up your things.

He blatantly broke a rule within a second after I corrected him. I was also told by a guy that he cheats often.

I think there are two ways you can approach it. The quicker and possibly more productive way is the one suggested by Talys and JamesY. It might help the guy reform his ways, which would be best for everyone.

Your idea of bringing a hard as Ollanius Pius's Balls (may his memory live forever) Tau list and rules lawyer your way through every roll of the dice, has a lot of cynical appeal, but it's less likely to help the player reform his ways as he probably will just get the hump and blame you for everything.

Yeh, just play someone else instead. Not enough time in the day to waste it on jerks.

First of all, as funny as this is, you have just turned into TFG. Just don't have a game. Be man enough and tell him the truth. Don't be rude, just say, "I don't like how you play, I think you are a cheater for this and this reason, you played 650 points in a 500 point game." Explain to him every single instance that you found no fun and a turn off to play.

Wait for his response, maybe he made a mistake, after all we all do it everyday. If you do not find his explanation satisfactory, just decline the game and say "no thank you, I do not like playing against people like that".

Simple. You are being honest, not TFG, and maybe, just maybe he will think people are refusing him games, he may have to change.

Just be polite and honest.

This isn't TFG, that's cheating.

TFG does not break the rules, he tries to bend them as far as he can in order to benefit his play.

A cheater breaks the rules to gain an advantage.

In general taking the moral high ground is preferable. If you want to keep your promise, check his list before the game. If you find him cheating, call him on it. Be fair, but firm. Bring a competitive list, but don’t stoop to his level.

I’ve found that a number of younger TFGs I’ve known have eventually grown out of it. They were just dumb kids pulling antics they thought they could get away with. Ostracizing and ignoring them doesn’t help them grow as gamers (unless they are self aware to put the pieces together themselves).

Next time ask him to show you his army list. If its 20 points above or below the 500 pts level, don't care.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Next time ask him to show you his army list. If its 20 points above or below the 500 pts level, don't care.

Why should you let someone take an extra 20 points, especially when they just blatantly cheated by taking 150 extra points?

 Peregrine wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Next time ask him to show you his army list. If its 20 points above or below the 500 pts level, don't care.

Why should you let someone take an extra 20 points, especially when they just blatantly cheated by taking 150 extra points?

I think he's saying "Even if it's only 20 points"

20 points over would be a big improvement.

You're playing this game for the sole objective of having fun. This guy doesn't sound like fun. You don't owe him a damn thing, so bail. As other's have said, there's no need to be rude or nasty, just fob him off with the easiest excuse possible. I'm sure he'd do exactly the same in a heartbeat.

I would never personally go over a points limit and would rather come in slightly less if it's not possible to use every point, but I'm willing to give another player an upwards of 10 points of swing room, regardless of points limits (I've never lost a match because of an extra melta gun before or 2 guardsmen).

For this case though, next time when he shows up tell him to show you his list. If he can't/refuse to produce it, don't play (and if he objects, crack open the BRB since if I remember it's written in every edition that your opponent is entitled to see your list). If he does produce it and the points don't add up, either ask him to change it or refuse to play. At that point no one will fault you for being a bad sport.

Otherwise, just bring the biggest cheese as you can. Like, if he wants to go unbound and no formations, just bring a crapton of stormsurges, a Taun'ar or what have you. Then when he complains you had cheese, you can say at least you followed the rules.

I have made arithmetic errors before in my lists.

Guy says no formations and plays unbound? I'd be like...were done here.

As has been pointed out - you should not become him in order to defeat him. TFG's of this kind thrive on actions like this. To them, the problem wasn't that they cheated, the problem was that they got caught. Next time they'll try harder to not get caught, as opposed to trying not to be TFG.

As stated, the best way to deal with this is to cancel your game. Unless the guy changes his attitude, there's nothing to be gained from gaming with them.

I agree with what has been said. Tell him why you did not enjoy the game the other day with specific examples of his behavior. Give him a chance to fix it but if he doesn't tell him and leave.

Sadly, at this point in the game's life, there are plenty of "legal" ways to do this, though not quite at that low a points level, but when formations and detachments often give a player extra stuff (transports, wargear, special rules, etc) that may increase the effective points they are playing with by 30% or more, and people agree to play against these things instead of pushing back, its not hard to see where people start to think points are something they can just fudge.

Honestly, if it were me, I'd just tell him that I can't play against someone that cheats and move on. If he does anything other than say ok, loudly go into great detail about every cheating thing you saw that he did so others know too.

Create a Super Cheesy list and stomp him
then just say 'even with necrons AND cheating i still stomped you"

Ya know, in this case, I'd just ask him to provide a Battlescribe list for me. It may be off on points here and there, but not by 150 point anywhere (that I know of). Plus, it's free on mobile and Windows/OS X.

He really has no excuse not to provide the list...

SG

Become an expert on his army so you know exactly when you're getting duped and show him in his own book that he's full of gak. Then ask him why would he be a liar and a cheat, and why is he insecure enough to feel he has to behave this way towards another human being over something so insignificant that's meant for enjoyment.

I think the best tool for reform of this kind of behaviour is open and precise confrontation, it will lead to him being embarrassed of himself for his own behaviour and will probably lead to at least a feeling of "why was I like that?" Or "why was I behaving that way?" Or even better "I don't like myself for being that way, I have to change now to respect myself."

A little self awareness can hit people like a brick sometimes. It will be good for him in the end, however, introspection forces character reform. If people never say anything but just refuse him games, he won't have the moment of realization that he's being a huge butt face, he'll just blame everyone else in whatever way he can. He'll have mental self defense mechanisms that protect his behaviour until he's shown it's actually bad for him individually more than anyone else. If there's people around and he is pointed out as cheating, it's not going to be socially pleasant for him at all, and he will see that he's being judged for it, as he rightly should be.

However, timing is key. I wouldn't go into it looking for a conflict and spoil it by being too assertive over something easily handwaved away, but would jump at the first tactical opening he presents to put the spotlight on him cheating.

Or, if you don't care how upstanding his character is later in life, don't play the guy, because life's too damn short.

I have Quartermaster installed on my iPhone with all of the various Factions loaded. If someone doesn't have a list with them, we make one real quick based on what he's fielding. Takes about 5 min or less. If he's over, we correct immediately and get to gaming. Numbers don't lie even if people do.

In game, I treat every "error" as a teaching opportunity. If a guy takes a model from the back, say "Oh, that rule is different in 7th. You have to take the closest model". If he puts it back and then takes a different model that isn't closest, say "Better, but still not the closest. It's that guy."

Don't let anything slide, but don't be a jerk about things. If you go to the trouble of being the better person and nothing improves, simply tell him that you're not willing to play him again until he demonstrates that he's willing to show up with a list and understands the rules better.