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a friend of my challenged me to bring a cheesy eldar list against his tyranid flying circus/genestealer cult list.

this is what ill be bringing.

++ Eldar Craftworlds: Codex (2015) (Combined Arms Detachment) ++

+ HQ +

Farseer [Farseer Skyrunner, Shuriken Pistol, Singing spear]

+ Elites +

Wave Serpent [Ghostwalk Matrix, Shuriken cannon, Twin-linked scatter lasers]
5x Wraithguard [5x D-scythe]

+ Troops +

Windriders [3x Windrider with Scatter laser]

Windriders [3x Windrider with Scatter laser]

+ Fast Attack +

Warp Spiders [4x Warp Spider]
Warp Spider Exarch [Death Spinner]

+ Lord of War +

Wraithknight [2x Scatter laser, Two Heavy Wraithcannons]

++ Eldar Craftworlds: Codex (2015) (Combined Arms Detachment) ++

+ HQ +

Warlock Conclave [Singing spears, Warlock, Warlock Skyrunners]

+ Elites +

Wave Serpent [Twin-linked scatter lasers, Twin-linked shuriken catapults]
5x Wraithguard [5x Wraithcannon]

+ Troops +

Windriders [3x Windrider with Scatter laser]

Windriders [3x Windrider with Scatter laser]

+ Lord of War +

Wraithknight [Ghostglaive and Scattershield]

Not bad. Just make sure you hide the bikes (either behind the Serpents or in Reserve). Every game.....EVERY game I have played against DakkaTyrants, I have lost all 18 of my bikes in the first 2 turns.

I would outfit both Serpents with TL Shurricannons with under Shuricannon upgrade. Use those to target his DakkkaFlyrants. T6+ models with 3+ or 2+ saves are one of the few (if only) cases in which the Shuricannon is statistically better than the Scatterlaser. If you can kill the Dakka Flyrants first, you will have an easier time. Keep your CC Knight near them so that if you manage to ground one you can destroy it in CC.

You also need an Inquisitor with Servo-skulls to prevent the Stealer Cult from infiltrating 1" away from you and charging turn 1 (cuz they can do that, ya know). Otherwise you WILL lose a unit of his choosing turn 1.

--

No Dark Reapers for anti-aircraft?

This list has its strengths, no doubt about it, but I hardly think it is optimized to deal with 3 or more Hive Tyrants.

You have no Skyfire at all, and not that much shooting.

You have Wraithguard, which are suboptimal vs flying tyrants, and complete overkill vs the Cult troops.

You have tons of D strength weapons, but what exactly are you going to shoot them at?

Why not a Windrunner Host with 2 Wraithknights, and an Aspect Host for the rest of the flavor? Youll only be paying the tax, and trade ObjSec for +1BS on the Serpents and the Spiders... hitting on 2s and wounding on initiative is quite deadly for the Nids.

I dont think 2 Scatter Lasers are worth the 30pts you spend for a Wraithknight... they are BS4 S6, but by puttng the points into underslung Shuriken Cannons for the Serpents gives you BS5 shots with rending, and this is not a marginal increase.

Reserve your bikes until some of the Tyrants fall. I strongly suggest an Air Superiority Detachment with Crimson Hunters.

On a rank of cheesy from NY Cheesecake to Epoisses I find your list to be a mild Wisconsin Cheddar.

rusty4tw wrote:
for +1BS on the Serpents and the Spiders... hitting on 2s and wounding on initiative is quite deadly for the Nids.

I dont think 2 Scatter Lasers are worth the 30pts you spend for a Wraithknight... they are BS4 S6, but by puttng the points into underslung Shuriken Cannons for the Serpents gives you BS5 shots with rending, and this is not a marginal increase.

You cannot claim +1BS on the Serpents from the Aspect Host. If your argument for this is that they "are units in the Formation", then please tell me how you were able to purchase them since "ALL units in this formation must purchase an Exarch." Serpents have no Exarch upgrade. By that logic, the Aspect host can NEVER purchase Serpents.
The more reasonable solution is to allow units in the Aspect host to take Serpents, but do not claim any Formation bonus for them.

I agree with all your other points though. Drop the WG for some Crimson Hunter to drop those Flyrants. Make sure you have a Autarch or Comms Relay to get them in.

 Galef wrote:
You cannot claim +1BS on the Serpents from the Aspect Host. If your argument for this is that they "are units in the Formation", then please tell me how you were able to purchase them since "ALL units in this formation must purchase an Exarch." Serpents have no Exarch upgrade. By that logic, the Aspect host can NEVER purchase Serpents.
The more reasonable solution is to allow units in the Aspect host to take Serpents, but do not claim any Formation bonus for them.

I mean no offence by this but I have never heard that suggestion made before and when I asked people at my local gw they thought it was as ridiculous as I did. By the logic of not being able to take serpent dts, you should not be able to buy extra units and be forced into using min squads. The serpents are dts and so I believe they count as an upgrade, the same way extra models or exarchs do.

snykyninja wrote:

 Galef wrote:
You cannot claim +1BS on the Serpents from the Aspect Host. If your argument for this is that they "are units in the Formation", then please tell me how you were able to purchase them since "ALL units in this formation must purchase an Exarch." Serpents have no Exarch upgrade. By that logic, the Aspect host can NEVER purchase Serpents.
The more reasonable solution is to allow units in the Aspect host to take Serpents, but do not claim any Formation bonus for them.

I mean no offence by this but I have never heard that suggestion made before and when I asked people at my local gw they thought it was as ridiculous as I did. By the logic of not being able to take serpent dts, you should not be able to buy extra units and be forced into using min squads. The serpents are dts and so I believe they count as an upgrade, the same way extra models or exarchs do.

Play it the way your store plays it is my advice.

 Galef wrote:

rusty4tw wrote:
for +1BS on the Serpents and the Spiders... hitting on 2s and wounding on initiative is quite deadly for the Nids.

I dont think 2 Scatter Lasers are worth the 30pts you spend for a Wraithknight... they are BS4 S6, but by puttng the points into underslung Shuriken Cannons for the Serpents gives you BS5 shots with rending, and this is not a marginal increase.

You cannot claim +1BS on the Serpents from the Aspect Host. If your argument for this is that they "are units in the Formation", then please tell me how you were able to purchase them since "ALL units in this formation must purchase an Exarch." Serpents have no Exarch upgrade. By that logic, the Aspect host can NEVER purchase Serpents.
The more reasonable solution is to allow units in the Aspect host to take Serpents, but do not claim any Formation bonus for them.

I agree with all your other points though. Drop the WG for some Crimson Hunter to drop those Flyrants. Make sure you have a Autarch or Comms Relay to get them in.

They arent units in the formation, they are upgrades for units in the formation.

Vehicles are units.

I mean this is turning into a rules debate, which is for a different forum. ETC ruled that they do get the buff, don't know how ITC ruled in wihtin their FAQ. Check with your oppoent or TO if you are going to a tourney. I'm sure it will wind up being in the GW FAQ as people must have asked about it as its been contentious since the last Eldar book dropped last year.

rusty4tw wrote:
This list has its strengths, no doubt about it, but I hardly think it is optimized to deal with 3 or more Hive Tyrants.

You have no Skyfire at all, and not that much shooting.

You have Wraithguard, which are suboptimal vs flying tyrants, and complete overkill vs the Cult troops.

You have tons of D strength weapons, but what exactly are you going to shoot them at?

Why not a Windrunner Host with 2 Wraithknights, and an Aspect Host for the rest of the flavor? Youll only be paying the tax, and trade ObjSec for +1BS on the Serpents and the Spiders... hitting on 2s and wounding on initiative is quite deadly for the Nids.

I dont think 2 Scatter Lasers are worth the 30pts you spend for a Wraithknight... they are BS4 S6, but by puttng the points into underslung Shuriken Cannons for the Serpents gives you BS5 shots with rending, and this is not a marginal increase.

Reserve your bikes until some of the Tyrants fall. I strongly suggest an Air Superiority Detachment with Crimson Hunters.

On a rank of cheesy from NY Cheesecake to Epoisses I find your list to be a mild Wisconsin Cheddar.

I didn't want it to be optimized. I wanted to take as many eldar units that are at the top of the bitch list.

I like the scatterlasers on the wraithknight, they usually do some damage and they give second charge target if required.

I don't have any crimson hunters, but thinking on getting some.

the serpent are asbuilt don't have extra underslung bits, only turret options.