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If you look at the tau's technology it seems to be the same stuff they've been using or the last thousand years. For a race so focused on technological advancement, it seems odd their main battle rifle has been virtually untouched since M38. If you look at their 'newer' designs for ground based weapons, they seem to be getting bigger but not necessarily better, with the Tau'nar and stormsurge just being big suits without any major ground breakingly new technology. Have tau reached or are nearing the apex of their technological development? To me it seems they've reached it long ago when they first went off world and now are slowly stagnating. It seems like they had a big burst of sudden OP technological advancement and slowed drastically afterwards. What do you think? I'm curious, are tau really slowing down in development?

There's a few ways at looking at it. Part of the reason why the Tau might be getting stunted as far as infantry weapons go is because their expansion is being stunted now that they're facing against more resilient foes like the Imperium and Tyranids, where the main line infantry, while still important, simply can't handle titan-class threats that Imperial Super-Heavy Walkers and Bio-Titan present to them. With the Tau generally being reactive when it comes to weapons development, it means that logically speaking they would create bigger things to handle said threats instead of focussing on making better main-line weapons simply because those boots on the ground are not resilient or numerous enough to actually use anything deadly on said targets before they get vaporized.

The other potential reason is more to do with the fact that they may be running into a similar (if smaller-scale) issue that the Imperium suffers which is the fact that constant war on multiple borders (and internal instability with insurrection/secession with regards to the Farsight Enclaves) isn't very conducive environment for technological development. Unlike the current sphere of expansion, the Tau previously had the advantage of not really coming into too much resistance (other than mainly Orks) or having to deal with a direct ideological enemy, which allowed them more time to explore and push the boundaries as they encountered different species. At this point in the fluff, they're getting bogged down and are definitely not reaching that level of advancement any time soon.

The simpler non-fluff answer is that GW is pushing to sell bigger monster/centerpiece kits for each faction and Tau needed something of that calibre that most of the other races have and therefore you got the riptide followed by the stormsurge thanks to the introduction of knights and super-heavies in general in normal 40k.

We just got Breachers, Stormsurges, Riptides, Tidewalls, and the new Barracuda (in lore) within less than a decade. We're also in lore getting an entire array of titan class platforms and we currently have the Taunar and this is within only a few short in lore years. The XV8 is now obsolete as our main assault mech (other than cheap mass attacks) since Riptides are being fielded more and more in lore and on the tabletop.

Also we gained perfect weather control in Mont'ka and super planetary shields that can withstand super exterminatus and in the FSE codex (6th ed) their feats of engineering are insane. One planet has been hollowed out and made into the perfect city planet to live on and is made out of hexes. We can put up nearly completely automated space defense stations that can rival the IoM's within weeks. We made a virus that destroyed a hive fleet.

There is also apparently some sort of stealth variant of the Manta dropship mentioned only in a single line of Mont'ka used by Farsight to land on the planet.

Tau technology is rapidly advancing. I would like to see a next generation battlesuit. Perhaps the YX class of battlesuit. YX-8 can fire three guns at once and comes with a 2+ save standard and have two wounds.

Edit
If the rumors of next years 13th black cruasade are correct. The Tau are about to make a huge breakout during the campaign. Sounds like FTL drives to me. Full proper ones. There is the long going sub plot of them trying to develop faster FTL.

Edit2
Also in lore it was said for a long time before the IoM our current military at the time was more than sufficient. We basically curb stomped any and all races that didn't join us (the few). There wasn't really a need to develop new stuff. We also got Ion weapons in a trade deal with the Demiurg.

They don't need them? High strength and range outclasses bolters and far exceeds lasguns. Why would they bother when the rest of the universe can (somehow) manage no better on stock troops?

I wouldn't say they are not a priority just a low priority. Compared to the more pressing need of other more potent weapons developing new tools for your foot troops seems very low on the list.

I would like to see more types of drones (not the damn disc) that can support troops more effectively and carry their heavy weapons for them. The call in turret is cool but needs to be mobile.

I would say some of it is pragmatism. Unlike the IOM who love rare gear and relics, the Tau generally go for the best can mass produce. As they face more wide spread war and tougher supply lines it makes sense that they slow down and go with what we can mass produce. CC aside Tau Fire warriors have a great basic weapon, solid armor and drone support. That fits them.

 Gamgee wrote:
We just got Breachers, Stormsurges, Riptides, Tidewalls, and the new Barracuda (in lore) within less than a decade. We're also in lore getting an entire array of titan class platforms and we currently have the Taunar and this is within only a few short in lore years. The XV8 is now obsolete as our main assault mech (other than cheap mass attacks) since Riptides are being fielded more and more in lore and on the tabletop.

Also we gained perfect weather control in Mont'ka and super planetary shields that can withstand super exterminatus and in the FSE codex (6th ed) their feats of engineering are insane. One planet has been hollowed out and made into the perfect city planet to live on and is made out of hexes. We can put up nearly completely automated space defense stations that can rival the IoM's within weeks. We made a virus that destroyed a hive fleet.

There is also apparently some sort of stealth variant of the Manta dropship mentioned only in a single line of Mont'ka used by Farsight to land on the planet.

Tau technology is rapidly advancing. I would like to see a next generation battlesuit. Perhaps the YX class of battlesuit. YX-8 can fire three guns at once and comes with a 2+ save standard and have two wounds.

Edit
If the rumors of next years 13th black cruasade are correct. The Tau are about to make a huge breakout during the campaign. Sounds like FTL drives to me. Full proper ones. There is the long going sub plot of them trying to develop faster FTL.

Edit2
Also in lore it was said for a long time before the IoM our current military at the time was more than sufficient. We basically curb stomped any and all races that didn't join us (the few). There wasn't really a need to develop new stuff. We also got Ion weapons in a trade deal with the Demiurg.

I'm not saying tau aren't advancing, I'm arguing that they've fallen off or slowed down in advancement. Didn't they go from rocks and fire to inter steller space travel in less than 2k~ years? Yet they've not gotten anywhere near as crazy in their advancement within the last 3k years of their history.

The problem the Tau are having to face is they dint have space wizardry like everyone (but the Necrons) have. I mean, a void shield literally shunts an attack into the warp - that's pretty space wizardy, if you ask me.

The Tau already have superior infantry weapons (on the tabletop, I'm sure fluff wise it depends on the writer and/or type of bolter porn it is), so the priority for them is to battle the giant robots protected by space wizardry - especially now that they are getting more of the Imperiums attention now that they have cleaned up most of the backwater areas.

Oh yes then it has slowed. The war doesn't help and it was frustrating even their own earth cast engineers at one point they couldn't get the FTL developed faster (the one they do have).

The likely answer to this question is that Tau technology is advancing, it just isn't getting new names. A pulse rifle now is probably better than a pulse rifle 100 years ago, but it's still called a pulse rifle.

I would like to see next generation Tau weaponry. A high tech rapid fire ballistics gun. They have anti gravity technology advanced enough they could create powerful versions of the stuff seen in Mass Effect as a compliment to their Railguns. Actually mass drivers would be more advanced and powerful than railguns. The cool thing about the mass effect lore is they compress a gigantic cube of metal down to a small size and then shave off small pieces to enlarge and fire at high velocity. This gives it effectively infinite ammo barring some extreme situations.

This would help diversify the factions weapons a little. I'm trying to think of a futuristic energy weapon.

A cool one to add would be something akin to the sonic blaster from District 9. The one that sends the guy flying and kills him dead. It would tie in with Tau weather control lore.

Finally something FW made for the Ta'unar. The missile system has a blinding affect and a huge radius and sort of acts like a weird flash bang mortar. However the gun is terrible on a titan platform and way too weak. if it was ported to other vehicles and suits it would be fine (with some adjustments). So some sort of long range blinding weapon.

 Gamgee wrote:
Actually mass drivers would be more advanced and powerful than railguns.

Not really. It's the same operating principle in both, just a different arrangement of the magnets.

The cool thing about the mass effect lore is they compress a gigantic cube of metal down to a small size and then shave off small pieces to enlarge and fire at high velocity. This gives it effectively infinite ammo barring some extreme situations.

This is just technobabble nonsense. There's no need to have something like it in 40k.

I'm trying to think of a futuristic energy weapon.

You mean like a pulse rifle or fusion gun?

A cool one to add would be something akin to the sonic blaster from District 9. The one that sends the guy flying and kills him dead. It would tie in with Tau weather control lore.

Also ridiculous. Why send a guy flying when you can kill them with a pulse rifle shot?

 Gamgee wrote:
I would like to see next generation Tau weaponry. A high tech rapid fire ballistics gun. They have anti gravity technology advanced enough they could create powerful versions of the stuff seen in Mass Effect as a compliment to their Railguns. Actually mass drivers would be more advanced and powerful than railguns. The cool thing about the mass effect lore is they compress a gigantic cube of metal down to a small size and then shave off small pieces to enlarge and fire at high velocity. This gives it effectively infinite ammo barring some extreme situations.

This would help diversify the factions weapons a little. I'm trying to think of a futuristic energy weapon.

A cool one to add would be something akin to the sonic blaster from District 9. The one that sends the guy flying and kills him dead. It would tie in with Tau weather control lore.

Finally something FW made for the Ta'unar. The missile system has a blinding affect and a huge radius and sort of acts like a weird flash bang mortar. However the gun is terrible on a titan platform and way too weak. if it was ported to other vehicles and suits it would be fine (with some adjustments). So some sort of long range blinding weapon.

Mass Effect's FTL travel should result in a 5-minute trip landing you back in time 13.8 years before you left... Maybe it's not the best example of sciency stuff.

 Gamgee wrote:
The cool thing about the mass effect lore is they compress a gigantic cube of metal down to a small size and then shave off small pieces to enlarge and fire at high velocity. This gives it effectively infinite ammo barring some extreme situations.

This is not at all the case. They do not do any compressing or enlargening because they do not need to. Even a paint flake can take out a tank if accelerated to a high enough velocity (this is the principle of the Cain, which fires explosive slugs at 5km/s).

Lol, yeah you Tau are rocking those old crysis suits no advancements since those in the last few years. Ow wait...

Fluffwise, it would have made more sense for the Hazard suits to be sold in GW kits. Two TL weapon systems plus a support system would have fit better than the release of the Riptide, Stormsurge and Tau'nar. (and possibly ghostkeel, but I haven't seen it compared to the others)

Seems impractical from a gameplay perspective to make 38K era Tau have their Pulse Rifles and Fusion Blasters to 40K Tau advancing to Str 8 AP1 rapid fire Fusion Rifles on Fire Warriors and Str D rapid fire Black Hole Guns on their "XV8-15" Crisis Suits.

New unit releases and making the Cyclic Ion Blaster and Airburst standard weapons instead of prototypes shows some advancement. Their tanks and MCs can link up to form squadrons and coordinate their fire to be more accurate showing a clear improvement in their tactical network systems. Just gotta forge that narrative harder.

 Pouncey wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
I would like to see next generation Tau weaponry. A high tech rapid fire ballistics gun. They have anti gravity technology advanced enough they could create powerful versions of the stuff seen in Mass Effect as a compliment to their Railguns. Actually mass drivers would be more advanced and powerful than railguns. The cool thing about the mass effect lore is they compress a gigantic cube of metal down to a small size and then shave off small pieces to enlarge and fire at high velocity. This gives it effectively infinite ammo barring some extreme situations.

This would help diversify the factions weapons a little. I'm trying to think of a futuristic energy weapon.

A cool one to add would be something akin to the sonic blaster from District 9. The one that sends the guy flying and kills him dead. It would tie in with Tau weather control lore.

Finally something FW made for the Ta'unar. The missile system has a blinding affect and a huge radius and sort of acts like a weird flash bang mortar. However the gun is terrible on a titan platform and way too weak. if it was ported to other vehicles and suits it would be fine (with some adjustments). So some sort of long range blinding weapon.

Mass Effect's FTL travel should result in a 5-minute trip landing you back in time 13.8 years before you left... Maybe it's not the best example of sciency stuff.

I didn't mean the FTL drives. I meant their mass driver weapons technology. The stuff we see in game is barely more powerful than rifles of today and they should be way more powerful with the tech shown off. Which is why properly adapted to 40k they would make great weapons to give to Tau and AdMech.

Edit
The mass effect lore even says it compresses a cube of matter down shaves off pieces to accelerate. http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Weapons One thing I know more than Tau lore is Mass Effect lore. It is perhaps one of my favourite settings and games of all time. I know that gak inside and out to the point I beat the original 30 times and the others many times but not anywhere near that much.

Edit2
I do forge the narrative. Riptides seem to be available in the same numbers crisis suits used to be since we can take teams of 3. Crisis suits have tripled in availability.

 Grimskul wrote:
There's a few ways at looking at it. Part of the reason why the Tau might be getting stunted as far as infantry weapons go is because their expansion is being stunted now that they're facing against more resilient foes like the Imperium and Tyranids, where the main line infantry, while still important, simply can't handle titan-class threats that Imperial Super-Heavy Walkers and Bio-Titan present to them. With the Tau generally being reactive when it comes to weapons development, it means that logically speaking they would create bigger things to handle said threats instead of focussing on making better main-line weapons simply because those boots on the ground are not resilient or numerous enough to actually use anything deadly on said targets before they get vaporized.

The other potential reason is more to do with the fact that they may be running into a similar (if smaller-scale) issue that the Imperium suffers which is the fact that constant war on multiple borders (and internal instability with insurrection/secession with regards to the Farsight Enclaves) isn't very conducive environment for technological development. Unlike the current sphere of expansion, the Tau previously had the advantage of not really coming into too much resistance (other than mainly Orks) or having to deal with a direct ideological enemy, which allowed them more time to explore and push the boundaries as they encountered different species. At this point in the fluff, they're getting bogged down and are definitely not reaching that level of advancement any time soon.

The simpler non-fluff answer is that GW is pushing to sell bigger monster/centerpiece kits for each faction and Tau needed something of that calibre that most of the other races have and therefore you got the riptide followed by the stormsurge thanks to the introduction of knights and super-heavies in general in normal 40k.

The third way to look at it is that their weapons are already effective enough. Nothing is pushing the envelope. Nobody is giving the Tau a hard time tech wise. There is no need for advancement, just production standards to push out more of what they have.

 Gamgee wrote:
The stuff we see in game is barely more powerful than rifles of today and they should be way more powerful with the tech shown off.

Uh, what? You're talking about pulse rifles that can cut through power armor and destroy tanks while still having the size and low recoil to be a practical infantry weapon. That's way beyond modern rifles (which, rules-wise, are STR 3 AP - weapons) and likely approaching the recoil limits on what you can do with a practical infantry weapon.

I think that the fluff versus the table is causing people to think one thing when something else is actually happening. Tau weapons are far more devestating in description than in game, while their tech base is both on a fluff fast track and on a gaming slow track due to inconsistencies between the fluff and the table. We know they should be in a coldwar development pressure cooker because we are products of a real life technology race that is the result of a hot war/cold war pressure cooker. And GW writers aren't technologists.

So yes, we think we should be seeing a faster development cycle with the Tau. Unfortunately, the authors do not write a faster development cycle.

A possible in-game explanation is that the Tau caste system passively surpresses technological development, with significant updates occuring only after decades and centuries of testing and gradual acceptance. A real world analog can be seen in India, where significant improvements occur due to outside pressure while their culture surpresses change.

SJ

Ultimately it's all trapped by the product. You cant have Tau going from S5 30" pulse rifles to something even stronger with every release. They can make big new robots, but driving rapid revolutions in basic tech quickly spirals out of control for a tabletop wargame.

 Jaxler wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
We just got Breachers, Stormsurges, Riptides, Tidewalls, and the new Barracuda (in lore) within less than a decade. We're also in lore getting an entire array of titan class platforms and we currently have the Taunar and this is within only a few short in lore years. The XV8 is now obsolete as our main assault mech (other than cheap mass attacks) since Riptides are being fielded more and more in lore and on the tabletop.

Also we gained perfect weather control in Mont'ka and super planetary shields that can withstand super exterminatus and in the FSE codex (6th ed) their feats of engineering are insane. One planet has been hollowed out and made into the perfect city planet to live on and is made out of hexes. We can put up nearly completely automated space defense stations that can rival the IoM's within weeks. We made a virus that destroyed a hive fleet.

There is also apparently some sort of stealth variant of the Manta dropship mentioned only in a single line of Mont'ka used by Farsight to land on the planet.

Tau technology is rapidly advancing. I would like to see a next generation battlesuit. Perhaps the YX class of battlesuit. YX-8 can fire three guns at once and comes with a 2+ save standard and have two wounds.

Edit
If the rumors of next years 13th black cruasade are correct. The Tau are about to make a huge breakout during the campaign. Sounds like FTL drives to me. Full proper ones. There is the long going sub plot of them trying to develop faster FTL.

Edit2
Also in lore it was said for a long time before the IoM our current military at the time was more than sufficient. We basically curb stomped any and all races that didn't join us (the few). There wasn't really a need to develop new stuff. We also got Ion weapons in a trade deal with the Demiurg.

I'm not saying tau aren't advancing, I'm arguing that they've fallen off or slowed down in advancement. Didn't they go from rocks and fire to inter steller space travel in less than 2k~ years? Yet they've not gotten anywhere near as crazy in their advancement within the last 3k years of their history.

Per fluff... the eastern fringe was cut off in a warp storm, for 2k years, and when the warp storm cleared, they had advanced from cavetau to spacetau, So because warp-something-something-warp..effects time, they could have been 30k years, just compressed to the rest of the universe.

Not quite. It was literally 2k years. They advanced that fast once they discovered "the greater good" ideology.

As far as tech, Bolters are described as self propelled rockets, for bullets. And Tau weaponry is even stronger than that.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
The stuff we see in game is barely more powerful than rifles of today and they should be way more powerful with the tech shown off.

Uh, what? You're talking about pulse rifles that can cut through power armor and destroy tanks while still having the size and low recoil to be a practical infantry weapon. That's way beyond modern rifles (which, rules-wise, are STR 3 AP - weapons) and likely approaching the recoil limits on what you can do with a practical infantry weapon.

I'm talking about mass effect (science fiction!) style weaponry. Holy gak. If you bothered to read the lore article I linked the mass effect weapons have virtually infinite ammo and only need to worry about cooling down between long bursts. They are far stronger in lore than any modern day rifle and even stronger than railguns if you do the math on them. The games portrayed them poorly after the first and got flack for making what was a cool sci fi weapon a generic assault rifle.

So if they are stronger than the handheld railguns (in some cases) it would be a STR 6 Assault 2 AP 4 in terms of how potent they were while retaining the 30inch range. It would be worth upgrading just because it means never again having to reload or recharge your troops rifles on the front lines. Specialized ammo could even be applied to them in game sort of like bolters in 40k. The weapon could even be made into snipers, tank guns, ship cannons, and suit based weaponry. Basically it's a new technology the Tau could get.

 nintura wrote:
Not quite. It was literally 2k years. They advanced that fast once they discovered "the greater good" ideology.

As far as tech, Bolters are described as self propelled rockets, for bullets. And Tau weaponry is even stronger than that.

As far as bolter rounds go, that sounds all BA, but over small arms distances, its actually not that useful, it doesn't have enough time to accelerate to compensate for the reduction in mass, so it net loses energy. Which is why we don't use self-propelled "rocket" firearms even though we have the technology in small arms. Bigger scale/longer time to target, it can be useful to correct in flight/accelerate even faster.

So really, space marines need to go back to 20th century tech propellants to increase the damage of their explody shells

 pumaman1 wrote:

 Jaxler wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
We just got Breachers, Stormsurges, Riptides, Tidewalls, and the new Barracuda (in lore) within less than a decade. We're also in lore getting an entire array of titan class platforms and we currently have the Taunar and this is within only a few short in lore years. The XV8 is now obsolete as our main assault mech (other than cheap mass attacks) since Riptides are being fielded more and more in lore and on the tabletop.

Also we gained perfect weather control in Mont'ka and super planetary shields that can withstand super exterminatus and in the FSE codex (6th ed) their feats of engineering are insane. One planet has been hollowed out and made into the perfect city planet to live on and is made out of hexes. We can put up nearly completely automated space defense stations that can rival the IoM's within weeks. We made a virus that destroyed a hive fleet.

There is also apparently some sort of stealth variant of the Manta dropship mentioned only in a single line of Mont'ka used by Farsight to land on the planet.

Tau technology is rapidly advancing. I would like to see a next generation battlesuit. Perhaps the YX class of battlesuit. YX-8 can fire three guns at once and comes with a 2+ save standard and have two wounds.

Edit
If the rumors of next years 13th black cruasade are correct. The Tau are about to make a huge breakout during the campaign. Sounds like FTL drives to me. Full proper ones. There is the long going sub plot of them trying to develop faster FTL.

Edit2
Also in lore it was said for a long time before the IoM our current military at the time was more than sufficient. We basically curb stomped any and all races that didn't join us (the few). There wasn't really a need to develop new stuff. We also got Ion weapons in a trade deal with the Demiurg.

I'm not saying tau aren't advancing, I'm arguing that they've fallen off or slowed down in advancement. Didn't they go from rocks and fire to inter steller space travel in less than 2k~ years? Yet they've not gotten anywhere near as crazy in their advancement within the last 3k years of their history.

Per fluff... the eastern fringe was cut off in a warp storm, for 2k years, and when the warp storm cleared, they had advanced from cavetau to spacetau, So because warp-something-something-warp..effects time, they could have been 30k years, just compressed to the rest of the universe.

That's not how warp storms work. Warp storms are in the warp not real space

They can be in both and can engulf whole worlds or even star systems

 Mr Morden wrote:
They can be in both and can engulf whole worlds or even star systems

They open small often temporary rifts as per lexicanum page on it. So it can happen. That doesn't mean they are in the warp and thus all its time displacement affects happen. That's ridiculous even by 40k lore standards. That would go against most lore I've heard.

Edit
If a rift was so large to fill the entire Tau sector and affect time it would be akin to a smaller eye of terror and the Tau would not exist or definitely be chaos monsters.

 Gamgee wrote:
I'm talking about mass effect (science fiction!) style weaponry. Holy gak. If you bothered to read the lore article I linked the mass effect weapons have virtually infinite ammo and only need to worry about cooling down between long bursts.

This doesn't make sense at all. You can't get "virtually infinite ammo" because the size of your ammunition is only one part of the problem. Compressing metal (assuming the technobabble process is even possible at all) doesn't get rid of the weight, it just makes it smaller. Carrying 10,000 rounds of rifle ammunition is still going to weigh too much to be practical, and you don't even need "virtually infinite" amounts of ammunition. You take enough for the mission (with a little extra just in case) and you store the rest in the Devilfish/bunker/whatever.

They are far stronger in lore than any modern day rifle and even stronger than railguns if you do the math on them.

This is also nonsense. There's no such thing as "stronger than a railgun" because there's no single "railgun" to use as a reference point. A "railgun" can be anything from a real-world hobby project with less firepower than a .22 pistol to a spinal-mount planet killer on a scifi space battleship. And being stronger than modern rifles also doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The limiting factor on rifle firepower is the basic physics of recoil, not inability to make a powerful weapon. It's why we went from 7.62mm rifles like the M14 to 5.56mm rifles like the M16, the more powerful rounds weren't meaningfully better at killing their targets and the heavier recoil made it a lot harder to hit anything. So, while railguns/coil guns have some useful attributes (replacing explosive powder with inert metal rods is a big one) increased firepower for infantry rifles isn't really one of them.

Also, as I said before, pulse rifles are also far stronger than any modern day rifle. Remember, the 40k equivalent to a real-world rifle is a STR 3 AP - weapon. Pulse rifles are somewhere around a 50cal heavy machine gun to a 20mm cannon, except with the size and recoil of an assault rifle (at most) and the ability to pack hundreds of rounds into a magazine the size of the ones on real-world rifles.