Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So, I've always played a little Chaos on the side, I've got a CSM cultist army, a decent Deathgauard force and a small Thousand Sons army. I've been interested in Daemons for a long time now, but never pulled the trigger on getting into the faction itself.

Seeing all the spillover you can do to soup some of these factions together, it got me thinking if it's currently templated in the best way. Currently we have CSM, DG, WE, TSons, and soon EC, as well as Daemons. What I was thinking though, wouldn't it be more thematic to instead to have them divided as CSM, Khorne, Nurgle, Tzeentch, and Slaanesh? Instead of having a solo Daemon codex, split them up into the four Gods and combine them with the legion specific chaos god factions? This would enable some more thematic lists and round out some of the smaller codices while allowing you to apply army buffs across both ranges for your specific God. So for example, all Nurgle units would get the Nurgle's Gift aura currently for DG, rather than it weirdly excluding the Nurgle daemons that you've allied in.

There would still be the ability to take a portion of your army from another deity, so you could still complement a Khorne force with some ranged units from another Chaos God if you wanted. Also with Detachments, you could still cater to a more heavily Daemonic or non Daemonic playstyle for each of the armies too.

What are your thoughts, I don't play any Deamons yet, just some thoughts I was having.

That would work, really depends what’s being done with minis and rules on the table.

Personal I think they should do a Deamons and cults codex.
Mortal units, some daemon engines and some stolen imperial stuff they can use and build.
All with some unique ways they all have synergy.
It sorts out some of deamons issues, and lets cults have somewhere they can shine on their own.

Then allow the marines to be expanded and borrow units as desired.

Slow down makes posting hard lol

i'm a big fan of splitting the gods into four books. it worked great for AOS, so i don't see why it wouldn't work for 40k

especially because the demons for an individual god can be rather light as a force of their own, but when supplemented by even a unit or two of their respective marines, really add up. plus, it allows the marines to have a bit more variety, especially for WE and (if the rumors are true), EP

I agree, its worked fantastically well in AoS.

Whilst its sad that you can't take a big 4 demon combined army, I think that's an acceptable loss in regular games for what 4 separate armies gives you.

Each of the demons has a very distinct style of models and having them split into 4 armies means that each demonic force has more room to add more models. It increases the gameplay creative space for the force considerably.

Personally I think 40K can even go to 6 armies.

Slaanesh, Tzzentch, Khorne, Nurgle, regular Chaos Space Marines, Dark Mechanicius/Warpsmith

Chaos Marines would be the one that pulls them all together like Slaves to Darkness does in AoS; whilst each of those separate themes can go its own way with unique models.




The big question though is if GW is going to make Chaos Demon armies the core and then have those as the backbone; or if GW wants to keep Chaos and Demons separate. That might well mean that, practically, we end up with 5 separate marine based forces and then still retain the unique Chaos Demon army.

 Overread wrote:
I agree, its worked fantastically well in AoS.

Whilst its sad that you can't take a big 4 demon combined army, I think that's an acceptable loss in regular games for what 4 separate armies gives you.

Each of the demons has a very distinct style of models and having them split into 4 armies means that each demonic force has more room to add more models. It increases the gameplay creative space for the force considerably.

Personally I think 40K can even go to 6 armies.

Slaanesh, Tzzentch, Khorne, Nurgle, regular Chaos Space Marines, Dark Mechanicius/Warpsmith

Chaos Marines would be the one that pulls them all together like Slaves to Darkness does in AoS; whilst each of those separate themes can go its own way with unique models.




The big question though is if GW is going to make Chaos Demon armies the core and then have those as the backbone; or if GW wants to keep Chaos and Demons separate. That might well mean that, practically, we end up with 5 separate marine based forces and then still retain the unique Chaos Demon army.

not sure if there's a need for DM yet (maybe someday!) but splitting it into five would be the best way forward, as far as i'm concerned. repeat the important stuff (ie, vehicles) between books but otherwise they can be different

as for the core, i think it should be a mix. ie, berzerkerz and bloodletters as the battleline for Khorne. i think they can have different niches within the books such that this will still be balanced

Please Dark Mech!
They could be SO COOL!

There's already a good chunk of mechanicus things that could splinter out into a Dark Mech army. So it very much could be a thing that would be fairly easy to make.

I think the only big hurdle would be if some manager came up with a policy that models must have the same stats no matter they army they are in (possibly prompted by not wanting to confuse/add more pages to instruction manuals) . Which would make it really hard to balance the core force as it would have stuff from all over the place brought into it; or would result in any shared models under-performing in their own book. Or just overshadowed.



So I very much feel that the cornerstone to this working is allowing varied stats depending on the army. Heck it might even just be varied point values just to account for the variation on how they'd perform in a different force.

ill argue that splitting books up is just GW double dipping our into wallets

No more than it already is. All non-Daemon Chaos armies can take Daemons and a Chaos Knight.
CSM can also take the Cult troops from the God Marked books.

None of these options are in any of those books so to get the rules you need to get those other books.

At least with the AoS model the God Marked books could have those Daemon rules already there.