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Second Question: Do you think that unit is now balanced?

Lictors still OP.

Roboute of course.

But it's still overpowered.

Malefic Lords was easily the most OP unit before chapter approved, and they were soundly nerfed hard into the ground.

The Rowboat and Celestine still rocks, just a tad less than before.

Honourable mentions go out to Malanthrope and the Heartbreakers.

Roboute still is the model in a vacuum that affect's the army the most / defines codex for still too cheap.

Rowboat needs two costs like IG plasma.

Martel732 wrote:
Rowboat needs two costs like IG plasma.

Explain? How would two costs be implemented?

So - guilliman buffing ultra marines is the most overpowered thing in the game before chapter approved...

Yeah - this community is on drugs.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Rowboat needs two costs like IG plasma.

Explain? How would two costs be implemented?

Very simple. One cost for a list that contains UM models, and one for a list that doesn't. It hoses mixed armies, but it's better than what we have now. Presumably if you are playing a mixed army with Rowboat, he is surrounded by UM.

Martel732 wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Rowboat needs two costs like IG plasma.

Explain? How would two costs be implemented?

Very simple. One cost for a list that contains UM models, and one for a list that doesn't. It hoses mixed armies, but it's better than what we have now. Presumably if you are playing a mixed army with Rowboat, he is surrounded by UM.

I can't say I agree. I think he should have his points just flat out increased, no need for two costs.

Let's face it, there's a massive difference between Guilliman backed up by Grey Knights or Blood Angels, and him being shielded by Conscripts or Infantry Squads. I don't think two costs would help.

Gulliman and no, not even close.

I'm not certain if he can be balanced. I just played someone who deployed 90% of his army within 6 inches of the bugger and managed to get predator lascanons to hit on a 2+.

I lost 3 leman russes on turn one despite having a cover save. I the end I simply ran out of things that could harm Guilman or his supporting tanks/devestators.

It's a simple ability that really can't be tweaked much, but really screws with the math side of the game. We've gone from having no Ultramarine players to almost all our Space Marine players declaring their loyalty to Macragge.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Rowboat needs two costs like IG plasma.

Explain? How would two costs be implemented?

Very simple. One cost for a list that contains UM models, and one for a list that doesn't. It hoses mixed armies, but it's better than what we have now. Presumably if you are playing a mixed army with Rowboat, he is surrounded by UM.

I can't say I agree. I think he should have his points just flat out increased, no need for two costs.

Let's face it, there's a massive difference between Guilliman backed up by Grey Knights or Blood Angels, and him being shielded by Conscripts or Infantry Squads. I don't think two costs would help.

I think it would help a LOT. He's not a priority at all if there's no UM around. So no, there's no difference to me if he's with IG or GK. Pay the lower cost, so the player is getting a lot less out of him.

 Xenomancers wrote:
So - guilliman buffing ultra marines is the most overpowered thing in the game before chapter approved...

Yeah - this community is on drugs.

You failed to mention what you thought was more overpowered. Are you an ultramarines player? Rerolling your hits and wounds is pretty damn strong. The fact that he has a chance to reset the attrition math by coming back from the dead, his own ability to deal with heavy infantry.

I could see someone making the argument for Mortorian being slightly more powerful in certain situations, but Gulliman is definitely the biggest contender for 'most auto-include' unit

How are Lictors the most OP? It allows DS, but you have to spend a CP for it. So many Codex armies have very similar abilities, with teleports, web gates, summons, etc...

The Lictor Taxi got hit with a nerf bat so no Nid player is going to bring them anymore.

Gotta give it to Guilliman, until we get more Primarchs to Balance it out, he just does so much.

 Dynas wrote:
How are Lictors the most OP? It allows DS, but you have to spend a CP for it. So many Codex armies have very similar abilities, with teleports, web gates, summons, etc...

The Lictor Taxi got hit with a nerf bat so no Nid player is going to bring them anymore.

Gotta give it to Guilliman, until we get more Primarchs to Balance it out, he just does so much.

Wel it's definitely not OP now, but the question was about before CA, which was also before the latest FAQ.

Voted for Malefic lords.

Guilliman is really strong, but he was nerfed by the new missions .

Girlyman... nothing even comes close.

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
Lictors still OP.

Can please somebody explain me how lictors have been nerfed with chapter approved

 Marfuzzo wrote:

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
Lictors still OP.

Can please somebody explain me how lictors have been nerfed with chapter approved

They were nerfed by the FAQ after chapter approved. So pre-chapter approved they were not nerfed, but they now are.

If you didn't answer the alphabet bird himself you have given the wrong answer.

And no he isn't balanced now (they priced him off the table) but you can't really balance a model that can fight/kill an entire army.

Aetaos'Rau'Keres
Mal lords
pre-nerf lictors
malenthropes
DakkaFlexes (180ish points for 24 s6 shots in a t7 12 wound 4++ package that doesn't BS degrade until 3 wounds with smite and deepstrike is crazy, a guy at my shop ran 8 of them last tournament...)
Eversor assassins
Reapers
Celestine
Magnus
girlyman
primaris psychers (cheap smite but any sniper unit kills them dead)


And those of you saying guilliman, yep he's so overpowered that you see him at all of the top tournament final tables now that other armies have their codexes.

And tac marines. Yep, Dakka Dakka gunna Dakka Dakka I guess.

Drager wrote:

 Marfuzzo wrote:

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
Lictors still OP.

Can please somebody explain me how lictors have been nerfed with chapter approved

They were nerfed by the FAQ after chapter approved. So pre-chapter approved they were not nerfed, but they now are.

ahahah got it...Honestly I didn't even think of bringing genestealers in the battelfield with that stratagem...God I'm such a good guy
As I always fired my prism to the same target and with the same profile before de eldar faqs



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Btw, with the new "divide your army in 3 parts" missions, one lictor in the list is still welcome, and the reroll fail charge is great

Singing spears and manticores are obviously the most OP units in the game right now and they don't even change in chapter approved as far as I know and they aren't on this weak AF list.

Geenstealers deserve an honorable mention as well. Not sure what this business about lictors is but I am assuming they are there for the same reason as the tactical marine.

Can someone point me to the Chapter Approved errata?

And how did they nerf the Hive Tyrant?

Did anyone else notice that no faction has more than 3 things on that list, and most factions with codexes released are up there?

 Marmatag wrote:
Can someone point me to the Chapter Approved errata?

And how did they nerf the Hive Tyrant?

People keep calling the latest FAQ's the Chapter Approved FAQ, but they aren't strictly related beyond point costs:

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/warhammer_40000_tyranids_en.pdf

(I assume since this is an official, free link I'm allowed to post it)

I play Chaos but even I though Malefic Lord spam was beardy power gamer cheddar. I personally have never seen anyone with an actual FW book who uses their models (also probably knock-offs) so I feel no sympathy for the points hikes on any of their units.

I have some of their models. The Hornet looks *amazing*. Spectres allow me to add another Aspect squad, without doubling up on anyone aside from DAs. Irrylith looks great. And have you seen their Avatar compared to GW's?

None of those are particularly great now, but Avatar uses GW rules, Spectres are still useable, and Phoenix Lords are usually not competitive. It's really just the Hornet that's weaker than I expected (but have you seen that thing?!?).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and Corsairs. But they dropped almost everything Corsairs, now. So I have a number of GW models with no legal rules.

In what world are normal tac-marines over powered?

Bharring wrote:
I have some of their models. The Hornet looks *amazing*. Spectres allow me to add another Aspect squad, without doubling up on anyone aside from DAs. Irrylith looks great. And have you seen their Avatar compared to GW's?

None of those are particularly great now, but Avatar uses GW rules, Spectres are still useable, and Phoenix Lords are usually not competitive. It's really just the Hornet that's weaker than I expected (but have you seen that thing?!?).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and Corsairs. But they dropped almost everything Corsairs, now. So I have a number of GW models with no legal rules.

Well, the Avatar is competing (and winning, IMO) with the Wraithknight for the status as the worst unit in the Eldar codex. So good to see that CA ignored him (and hey, the Wraithknight too) entirely.

Well, I've faced Gulliman and his Ultramarines and Lictors and they weren't particularly overbearing.

I would say Tempestas Scions were and still are the most OP thing in 40k. I find it honestly kind of hard to contest their claim to that title.