That time again I guess, just saw it on Dark Sphere's website here;

http://www.darksphere.co.uk/index.php

Grumble... evil GW... grumble

Very articulate, Flashman. Okay guys, this thread's a wrap!



EDIT: The Codices are going up? Really? And the Aspect Warrior Boxes? We're talking about 6 figures! Tops! How much can you charge for 6 metal guys?

Thats quite a large increase.

I wonder what excuses will be given this time -_-
Basically 40% price increase within 3 years?

£22.50 for a box of ten marines. Why do people still buy this stuff at RRP? And a codex for £17.50? It's not even in hardback. LOTR blisters of one foot and one mounted for £16.50?!

I did comment on another thread about GW finances that they would use their current profits as a reason to raise the prices, purely on the basis that if people are still buying their stuff then they're not charging enough. Only a week after that and there's a price rise. Colour me unsurprised. I like GW stuff, but I've bought less and less of it over the years and this is the reason.

LunaHound wrote:Thats quite a large increase.

I wonder what excuses will be given this time -_-
Basically 40% price increase within 3 years?

It's between 10% and 15% on everything. The reasoning can only be greed because I thought their last financial statement was healthy and there hasn't been another surge in "raw materials" which I've always found difficult to believe.

Lets wait for the next White Dwarf to see if they announce this price rise with the advice to go out and 'buy stuff now while the price is lower', because that's what they've done before.

"ORKS IN MEGA ARMOUR £9.50 £12.00"

As if I didn't want them in plastic badly enough already.

Once again, I'm reminded of the miracles of Maelstrom.

Huh, for the first time in years the Tactical Squad and Land Raider get a price increase. Times must be very tough indeed.

It's that time again and feth me, that's not a small increase...

Same old argument from me, I'd spend more if I considered them 'worth the money'. If GW figures were cheaper I'd be spending more on them.

When does this take effect?

** Ah, 1st June.

Howard A Treesong wrote:£22.50 for a box of ten marines. Why do people still buy this stuff at RRP? And a codex for £17.50? It's not even in hardback. LOTR blisters of one foot and one mounted for £16.50?!

I did comment on another thread about GW finances that they would use their current profits as a reason to raise the prices, purely on the basis that if people are still buying their stuff then they're not charging enough. Only a week after that and there's a price rise. Colour me unsurprised. I like GW stuff, but I've bought less and less of it over the years and this is the reason.

GW knows people uses online discount stores. So basically they'll raise the price to the customer's threshold.
They'll raise the price to X amount , to counter balance the discount retailer's X amount discount.
To the point that we are still paying "retail price" even though we are using online discount retailer.

BrookM wrote:Huh, for the first time in years the Tactical Squad and Land Raider get a price increase. Times must be very tough indeed.

Not for Canada , the Crusader has price increased around 1 year after it came out.

BrookM wrote:Huh, for the first time in years the Tactical Squad and Land Raider get a price increase. Times must be very tough indeed.

Doesn't seem a clever move to me. It means the regiment boxsets have broken the £20 limit, this means that instead of just handing over a £20 note, you need to find more change or another notes only to receive a handful of change. Psychologically it's a deterrant to the customer even though the difference between £20 and £22.50 for a box of toy soldiers is not that great.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:When does this take effect?

Seems to be June 1st, just next month.

Just have to say that I'm not going to buy in non-used or Maelstrom for a loooooong time.

Deal with it.

Its only $2-3 increase. If you cant afford that you shouldnt be playing warhammer in the first place

Oh wait... $#W^$@)*& @^$)$@^*@$

Couple of articles from the begining of the year...

Huge Growth at Games Workshop

Games Workshop shares rise on profits forecast

So they've reorganised themselves and dones some cost cutting, they've frozen the wages of staff but are doing pretty damn well and then they go and heap this price increase on top. It just stinks of the senior management screwing everyone to the hilt for as much as they possibly can, customers and staff alike.

Wow.

In this economy too.

I guess we knew this was coming, as due to their recent efforts they are 'profitable' again.

This is a plain and simply money grab.

And it is only about 3 weeks away...

Looks like there will be a few more counts as minis in my forces.

I don't need GW's toy soldiers that badly even with discount retailers out there.

My great post got swallowed in Teh Wrap.

Anyway, I used not to worry too much about the prices but this leap right now suddenly focusses me that I will be expected to pay £40.50 retail for a set of three Zoanthropes.

£40.50 for three figures?!11!1!!111!111ONE

The cost of a codex has gone up 46% since late 2004.

It is GW policy that those who buy the product will always buy it because they are the best minatures in the world and those who buy care more about quality of the minature and not the price no matter how much it is.

These customers have the "hobby gene" and will buy regardless due to the quality of the game, support of the company, and detail of the minatures

Seems strange to me that they are increasing the prices on many WHFB books, even though they will all be out dated by 8th...

The least they could do is keep them the same, then reprice each one as it is reprinted (if that is what they're doing).

It's interesting people even question why the price rise is ever anything but greed. Material price increases are nothing to do with it imo.

Well that's just wonderful. I get the feeling that they haven't the slightest of clues as to how gak like this effects their retailers. Price increases like this drive profits down because more buyers will flock to the online discount stores or the retailers will have to cut into their profits to match those discounts.

Orion_44 wrote:It is GW policy that those who buy the product will always buy it because they are the best minatures in the world and those who buy care more about quality of the minature and not the price no matter how much it is.

These customers have the "hobby gene" and will buy regardless due to the quality of the game, support of the company, and detail of the minatures

You mean the 'GW hobby gene (TM)'

Wow, some of the empire stuff is going from £12 to £15, a 25% increase. I can't see the Empire Goldswords in the list though, they'll be platinum swords soon.

I'm not excusing the increase or indeed the amount but GW will plan ahead of change rather than simply rise prices in reaction.

I for example have to do that same for work and have put aside significant sums against probable rises in steel over the the period to Oct 2011 [25%+]. What effects steel will probably do the same to GW's raw materials as well [I am guessing], oil based products being particularly prone.

Looks like I will need to stock up on kits, the Mrs will not be happy. Silly woman thinks I have enough!?!

Guess I'll be buying some Cold One Knights before they bump up the price.

For anyone interested, I made an alphabetically organized list of that in .csv format:

http://tinyurl.com/298atmx

oni wrote:Well that's just wonderful. I get the feeling that they haven't the slightest of clues as to how gak like this effects their retailers. Price increases like this drive profits down because more buyers will flock to the online discount stores or the retailers will have to cut into their profits to match those discounts.

-Which means there will be less reason to purchase from retail GW shops
-Less reason to go to GW shop other than to game , even then , it still leave a bad taste in mouth because of their atrocity.
-Then they might as well as close their shops since no one purchases anything , and mostly go there to game.
-Then less exposure to GW product.
-Profit goes down , way down.
-Maybe they'll panic and reduce price to attract customer back.
-We'll forgive them , because bad relationship is always forgiven T-T

What's worse is that they'll go up in Oz as well, even though we pay 50% more than the UK and US.

The only time I can recall GW pricing a product down is when the Warhammer castle was released at £75 but was later done for £50, even though it was the same kit.

Luna, you are deliciously naive. Don´t you dare to ever change

M.

LunaHound wrote:

oni wrote:Well that's just wonderful. I get the feeling that they haven't the slightest of clues as to how gak like this effects their retailers. Price increases like this drive profits down because more buyers will flock to the online discount stores or the retailers will have to cut into their profits to match those discounts.

-Which means there will be less reason to purchase from retail GW shops
-Less reason to go to GW shop other than to game , even then , it still leave a bad taste in mouth because of their atrocity.
-Then they might as well as close their shops since no one purchases anything , and mostly go there to game.
-Then less exposure to GW product.
-Profit goes down , way down.
-Maybe they'll panic and reduce price to attract customer back.
-We'll forgive them , because bad relationship is always forgiven T-T

The thing is that if they increase their prices a gakload of customers will have to jump ship for them to feel any effect.

@Mr. Burning. Im not sure how many people purchase directly from GW retail shops.

But assuming most of them order online on retail shops, then the local GW only serve as a shell for:
providing gaming location
serve as an advertisement /help center.

Thinking back to GW's last full report it I note that the profit that GW announced [by no means a large about] was based on allot of partnership/royalty strands. I can't remember [and am too lazy to check] but i'm sure that in-house cash generation was less than or just slightly more than cost. GW could be postitioning themselves for a more self sustaining position? [or collapse!]

Also it now strikes me that they could be expecting one of the partnerships to come to an end for such a big increase one off increase.

No more LotR or Ultramarine the movie sucking a bit more funding than expected?

Let the conspiricies or Fan pushback 2010 begin!

LunaHound wrote:Thats quite a large increase.
I wonder what excuses will be given this time -_-
Basically 40% price increase within 3 years?

Simple: They keep their revenue constant or declining for years, so it's 40% less sales in 3 years!

Orion_44 wrote:It is GW policy that those who buy the product will always buy it because they are the best minatures in the world and those who buy care more about quality of the minature and not the price no matter how much it is.

These customers have the "hobby gene" and will buy regardless due to the quality of the game, support of the company, and detail of the minatures

People would ask at the HC why it was so expensive to get into the hobby. Our regional manager told us to inform them that, "this is a luxury hobby, and we are the Porche of miniature gaming".

Fleabay, Maelstrom, Wayland for my fix but those damn direct only items

Ironic, because IMO Porsche => overrated and overpriced.

Regarding the increase, if they can't actually grow sales and have made all the cuts they can possibly make, they have to do something. *shrug*

Now I look at it it is only on a limited [240 items?] selection of products.

Just your common or garden GW price rise then!

LunaHound wrote:@Mr. Burning. Im not sure how many people purchase directly from GW retail shops.

But assuming most of them order online on retail shops, then the local GW only serve as a shell for:
providing gaming location
serve as an advertisement /help center.

It would be interesting to find out what the split is but....

They can then close some shops, streamline the manufacturing processes, rationalize raw materiel purchasing, look at inventory savings or whatever and still not have to feel any effects of customers who are put off by their price increases. Profit still looks strong = GW investor win!

And they still make what they forecast by wholesaling their products.

gorgon wrote:Ironic, because IMO Porsche => overrated and overpriced.

Regarding the increase, if they can't actually grow sales and have made all the cuts they can possibly make, they have to do something. *shrug*

The ultimate irony:

Porsche might be giving them extra chance to get laid.

Toy soldier lowers the chance. alot.

When I get home (and if I don't have to work on finals), I'll check some of the newest prices with my old GW Catelogue. That thing was worth getting, if only to show how to-hell Bitz Order went and incite rage over price increases 100%+ for some models and products that have literally either been unchanged or reduced in content.

What got me most, more than Space Marines, was that Dark Eldar had eight models increase in price, with the Ravager coming up to a Landraider's current price. It has got "so bad" that GW needs to justify price rises in models they've pretty much ceased production for and had eating shelf space in warehouses the past decade.

Oh, and fun fact: The Nine Ringwraith Box? GW's about to make it almost 25% the cost of buying them individually. Because them coming with mounted counterparts so justifies why they need to have their cost quadrupled.

Jin wrote:Guess I'll be buying some Cold One Knights before they bump up the price.

For anyone interested, I made an alphabetically organized list of that in .csv format:

http://tinyurl.com/298atmx

How did you make that o_o

@Luna - Google Docs + Sort by Name. Took all of 2 mins.

LunaHound wrote:

gorgon wrote:Ironic, because IMO Porsche => overrated and overpriced.

Regarding the increase, if they can't actually grow sales and have made all the cuts they can possibly make, they have to do something. *shrug*

The ultimate irony:

Porsche might be giving them extra chance to get laid.

Toy soldier lowers the chance. alot.

Depends on the type of women.

Yet more proof why I haven't purchased a GW product in over 2 years....so glad I'm not supporting this continual asininity.

*Starts getting more stuff for SoB army*
PRICE INCREASE!!
*Looks at Maelstrom*

T_T

We've reorganised the list so it's now alphabetical...

They raise prices every year. Just get used to it :p

We all whine and complain but when we get our paychecks, we still buy our army men somehow, somewhere If you buy em off ebay, GW already made their profits on them. If you buy them from an online discount shop or even a full price FLGS, GW still makes the same profit off them.

Some of us may buy less in the long run but I think since we're all addicted, we'll buy just as much as always and just buy less of the other things in our life

Who needs pizza when ramen noodles are so much cheaper?

What if you had Ramen Noodle Pizza? .

Don't think I'll ever fall into the "never buying GW anymore" category, but I definitely do scale down my purchases with every passing year, in part due to the price increases.

NAVARRO wrote:

LunaHound wrote:

gorgon wrote:Ironic, because IMO Porsche => overrated and overpriced.

Regarding the increase, if they can't actually grow sales and have made all the cuts they can possibly make, they have to do something. *shrug*

The ultimate irony:

Porsche might be giving them extra chance to get laid.

Toy soldier lowers the chance. alot.

Depends on the type of women.

But when it comes to "luxury hobby" as mentioned earlier.
Someone that can afford porche as luxury hobby can certainly afford some toy soldiers.
But might not work vice versa.

*PS im just trying to brighten this grim news up

GW market research has found that there are still too many new customers getting into the hobby, spoiling the traditional downward curve in sales. To fix that, starter boxes and Codices/army books are going up considerably to raise the hurdle.

I am very concerned because it looks like models made of metal had the greatest jump in prices.

Well, I guess moar plastic models for the future.

I hope there's plastic SoB sometime in the near future, currently they're sitting at $69 for 10 >_>

I cry for GW T-T:

IMPERIAL GUARD CADIAN SHOCK TROOPS £12.00 -> 15.00

Hey, look on the bright side - now you can order from Forgeworld and not feel like you're paying a premium for their resin kits... they'll be the same price as the regular GW plastics!

Azog wrote:Hey, look on the bright side - now you can order from Forgeworld and not feel like you're paying a premium for their resin kits... they'll be the same price as the regular GW plastics!

But thats like lying to ourselves lol . Is GW worth such lies! neverrrrrrrrrrr!

LunaHound wrote:I cry for GW T-T:

IMPERIAL GUARD CADIAN SHOCK TROOPS £12.00 -> 15.00

This is really huge.
Thank emperor no change for chimera.....am I right?

Sir Motor wrote:

LunaHound wrote:I cry for GW T-T:

IMPERIAL GUARD CADIAN SHOCK TROOPS £12.00 -> 15.00

This is really huge.
Thank emperor no change for chimera.....am I right?

Yes especially after they split the box in half not that long ago. ( anyone remember how much the box of 20 costs? )


Emperor protects...
Lets all hold hands and sings song to praise the God Emperor

Grimstonefire wrote:Seems strange to me that they are increasing the prices on many WHFB books, even though they will all be out dated by 8th...
.

remember too they are banking on drawing in more people with a new 8th - they dont want to put up the prices AFTER they release the new system - they need them to go up before so new customers dont see the bump in the first place.

@Grimstonefire - they're also raising prices on items like High Elf White Lions which are rumored to be getting new Plastics. They're probably banking on newbie GW-store customers who aren't quite as "in the know" as us savvy internet users.

Jin wrote:What if you had Ramen Noodle Pizza? .

Don't think I'll ever fall into the "never buying GW anymore" category, but I definitely do scale down my purchases with every passing year, in part due to the price increases.

I'm currently in between the "buy now and then" and "nothing" purchases. I haven't made any actual GW purchases beyond necessities (new rule book, new codex, etcetera) since at least January, and within the past 18 months I think I've spent maybe $100 USD in the shop - I spend more getting my lunches Hobby Days (pretty much noon 'til closing gaming) than I do on average for a month of GW visits. They just aren't being worth my investment any more - For O&G I pretty much have so many points and models that they'd have to split O&G into "Orc" and "Goblin"-specific Army Books for me to need to make more purchases for them, and for 40K I've decided to say "Sod it" to full-sized armies (2000+ points) as if I'm going to lose 250-750 points from each list with a new codex, I might as well save money and run 500-1000pt lists for the next three editions instead of paying $50-100 in "boosters". So far, it's working pretty well: My bookshelf has started expanding rapidly, and I'm getting some good games / activities to do during the other six days of the week.

Anyways, something I just realized and felt like pointing out: For all their increases in price, they sure haven't got the money to spare in give-aways any more. When I started, there were weeks of special events and newbies could very potentially win some $100+ in GW shwag by the end. Now? Maybe if you're lucky, there's one day of events and they'll give you a blister that can't be used any more because it's eating up shelf space you did a nice job. Stuff like Chopping Mall's and Korridors of Khorne has been removed, special events are going the way of the dodo, staff is decreasing, hours are decreasing, bitz order was sacked, and yet through all of this they feel the need to justify 10-20%+ price increases. Where exactly is the money disappearing to? They planning to buy a small country or something?

EDIT: Old Shock Troops were 20 for $35USD, use to be $30 as of 2004. Now it appears they'll be something around $25-27.50-30 USD for 10.

Minsc wrote:Where exactly is the money disappearing to? They planning to buy a small country or something?

They do it because they can.

And sadly , we allow them to.

Kroothawk wrote:GW market research has found that there are still too many new customers getting into the hobby, spoiling the traditional downward curve in sales. To fix that, starter boxes and Codices/army books are going up considerably to raise the hurdle.

They'll lose the long term players though, it's increasingly becoming a hobby for kids to have for a few years until they leave home and have to pay for stuff themselves at which point they lose interest. It's more ephemeral, that's why they can rehash editions of the game so frequently.

Jin wrote:Don't think I'll ever fall into the "never buying GW anymore" category, but I definitely do scale down my purchases with every passing year, in part due to the price increases.

It creeps up on you, and after a while you look back and find that you've not bought anything full price in ages. You didn't boycott or any nonsense like that, you just found that you stopped being tempted by stuff because it was so expensive, and then you realise that you've been skipping past your local GW when you go shopping instead of at least going in for a browse.

These price increases really hit the independent retailers though. As GW make so much through mail order and licencing they can afford to treat their shops as a highstreet advert which do little more than break even. Loss of sales and a very high wholesale cost hit the independent retailers, the whole thing becomes more expensive and risky, they get excessively punished for taking on stock that they can't shift and the outlay is so great on stock that they do manage to sell. My local shop has cut back on new stock, he's been burned by LOTR and doesn't stock White Dwarf like he used to because it simply doesn't seel in the numbers it once did, mainly because it's crap.

Not missing, the board is sending it to the Caiman Islands.

M.

LunaHound wrote:

Sir Motor wrote:

LunaHound wrote:I cry for GW T-T:

IMPERIAL GUARD CADIAN SHOCK TROOPS £12.00 -> 15.00

This is really huge.
Thank emperor no change for chimera.....am I right?

Yes especially after they split the box in half not that long ago. ( anyone remember how much the box of 20 costs? )


Emperor protects...
Lets all hold hands and sings song to praise the God Emperor

How much was the box of 20? Wasn't it only £15 a few years ago, and then went up to £17.50? So those figures have effectively doubled in how long?

Howard A Treesong wrote:How much was the box of 20? Wasn't it only £15 a few years ago, and then went up to £17.50? So those figures have effectively doubled in how long?

I dont know the exact date , but i know the increase is inhumane.
So i cry for GW T-T

Howard A Treesong wrote:

LunaHound wrote:

Sir Motor wrote:

LunaHound wrote:I cry for GW T-T:

IMPERIAL GUARD CADIAN SHOCK TROOPS £12.00 -> 15.00

This is really huge.
Thank emperor no change for chimera.....am I right?

Yes especially after they split the box in half not that long ago. ( anyone remember how much the box of 20 costs? )


Emperor protects...
Lets all hold hands and sings song to praise the God Emperor

How much was the box of 20? Wasn't it only £15 a few years ago, and then went up to £17.50? So those figures have effectively doubled in how long?

Only have the US prices, but it was $30 (at least as of 2004) and $35 when it was withdrawn. At current Dollar-Pound conversion, that was 20-23.35. Or just 33% more than the new IG price for half the models (or 33% cheaper than the newer box when equal-number).

Overall, 40K boxes have been relatively balanced out as they're (usually) getting more variety at the cost of less models for more. WHFB regiments are the ones being hit the hardest, what with not really changing any option availability with each new box (unless entirely new units become present) but still rising in price.

Howard A Treesong wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:GW market research has found that there are still too many new customers getting into the hobby, spoiling the traditional downward curve in sales. To fix that, starter boxes and Codices/army books are going up considerably to raise the hurdle.

They'll lose the long term players though, it's increasingly becoming a hobby for kids to have for a few years until they leave home and have to pay for stuff themselves at which point they lose interest. It's more ephemeral, that's why they can rehash editions of the game so frequently.

Jin wrote:Don't think I'll ever fall into the "never buying GW anymore" category, but I definitely do scale down my purchases with every passing year, in part due to the price increases.

It creeps up on you, and after a while you look back and find that you've not bought anything full price in ages. You didn't boycott or any nonsense like that, you just found that you stopped being tempted by stuff because it was so expensive, and then you realise that you've been skipping past your local GW when you go shopping instead of at least going in for a browse.
.

I'm in that position now. As a student, over the last two and a half years, GW has gone from me buying something periodically, to rarely ever buying anything. The price increases have actually hit the point now where they've almost completely priced themselves out of my budget.

Hey... all those lawyers to sue over IP are expensive. Gotta get those retainers and hourly fees paid somehow!

In a strange way I find the annual price increases to be helpful. Every time they go up I find myself saying, "well I'd love to buy new stuff, but its pretty expensive and I still have that (insert one of my many unfinished units) to work on." I haven't bought a new model in a year and a half, which means that I've been plugging away on stuff I already own.

We should do a poll on price thresholds for different type of customers.

preteen
teens
university students
adults
adults with family

@Howard A. Treesong - actually, the biggest influence I find in my diminished purchases comes from lack of playing the game (through friends who drop interest/lack of time). The prices do make me think twice before making a purchase, though and even then, it's somewhat mitigated by ordering from The Warstore.

Doesn't help that I don't exactly have a local GW/FLGS nearby that tempts me in. The one FLGS that I do stop by on occasion, I rarely ever buy GW stuff from partially because they don't offer any discounts and partially because I don't game there so I feel less guilty about ordering from online. I do, however, rely on it for my non-GW gaming products/supplies so at least in that regard, I feel that I'm still supporting them.

ORK BOYZ £12.00 £15.00
ORK LOOTAS AND BURNAS £13.50 £15.00

They're not even consistent... oh wait, yes they are, now all Ork plastic foot troops are £15.

LunaHound wrote:Thats quite a large increase.

I wonder what excuses will be given this time -_-
Basically 40% price increase within 3 years?

Do they need an excuse?
Its a shame.

NAVARRO wrote:Fleabay, Maelstrom, Wayland for my fix but those damn direct only items

Which is fair enough, but of course they are going up by 13% as well. So your "discounted" Maelstrom et al items will cost in June what is full retail at the moment.

The only defence against GW price rises is to stuff 'em and go collect something else.

Since these are european prices, I wonder how that will effect the US prices.

I think it has more to do with the currency exchange rates dropping because the EU is taking too many hits right now (which does effect the British Pound). The Dollar to US exchange is crazy good right now and expected to get better for us Americans. So you raise prices across the board, and you "make up" the difference is supposed losses from the US and other currencies higher exchange rates.

It seems like, if my math is right, about a 7% increase to common items. So I am guessing that a Land Raider Crusader will go from 57.75 to 61.75. Not a drastic increase, but you would think that in this economy you would want to keep prices level. They are already increasing their profit by publishing games that encourage large armies.

But they will continue to get away with it until they face real competition.

And before people say it, we live in a world where this plastic set:



Cost as much as this one:

wuestenfux wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Thats quite a large increase.

I wonder what excuses will be given this time -_-
Basically 40% price increase within 3 years?

Do they need an excuse?
Its a shame.

No they dont :x
but i do imagine it to be quite entertaining when they do give one ^^

Time for me to start reading the rules for infinity, malifaux and warmachine...

Because I have money, I intend to spend it, but the drift between gw and the rest keeps getting wider.

If the rumours of army size for WHFB are true, then the hidden price is even greater, since the 'average' army will be about twice the current size.

I'm considering now if it's not in my interest to spend next year building small skirmish forces for all those other games I've been meaning to play.

Mahu wrote:Since these are european prices, I wonder how that will effect the US prices.

I think it has more to do with the currency exchange rates dropping because the EU is taking too many hits right now (which does effect the British Pound). The Dollar to US exchange is crazy good right now and expected to get better for us Americans. So you raise prices across the board, and you "make up" the difference is supposed losses from the US and other currencies higher exchange rates.

It seems like, if my math is right, about a 7% increase to common items. So I am guessing that a Land Raider Crusader will go from 57.75 to 61.75. Not a drastic increase, but you would think that in this economy you would want to keep prices level. They are already increasing their profit by publishing games that encourage large armies.

But they will continue to get away with it until they face real competition.

And before people say it, we live in a world where this plastic set:



Cost as much as this one:

You're right. Privateer needs to raise their prices, if only so that they can get grumbled about too

GW wrote:We didn´t want to rise prices but the recent ash cloud over Europe put a big strain in our logistics that unfortunately dear suc.... err customers we need to rise price to compensate for the new ash proof wrappings

M.

Ketara wrote:I'm in that position now. As a student, over the last two and a half years, GW has gone from me buying something periodically, to rarely ever buying anything. The price increases have actually hit the point now where they've almost completely priced themselves out of my budget.

Being a student quickly curtailed the hobby for me. I'd like to say it was all drinking and girls, but it wasn't, I just found I was busy and money was tight, so painting turned from a daily to a very occasional activity.

I've nearly always bought 2nd hand but I used to buy a lot more, as the 2nd hand market was cheaper too. Years ago in the mid 1990s we'd buy stuff every visit to GW, sometimes more sometimes less, my dad was big on collecting all the varients of Terminator armour for spacehulk. Wargames shows were a boon, the stuff was cheap and easy to find, we'd get bags of miniatures for next to nothing, it's all gone a bit more expensive now, more people are looking for alternative to fully priced figures and sellers realise their stuff isn't worthless. Still get some great bargains though. I used to buy a fair bit on pocket money and occasional treats so had a lot of stuff. It's gone the other way now, to sustain myself as a student I've been regrettably selling off this collection a bit at a time, some of it has massively accrued in value which is nice so I've probably got a fair return in the long term.

In in last year, since christmas 2008 I've spent about £100 on brand new GW products which sounds like a moderate spend but isn't that much over nearly 18 months, I took the plunge and had the last box box of three Leman Russes for £50 down my local, I had the plastic dire wolves, the corpse cart and some black templars. I've probably spent another £100 on single figures 2nd hand and from various other non-GW manufacturers.

LunaHound wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Thats quite a large increase.

I wonder what excuses will be given this time -_-
Basically 40% price increase within 3 years?

Do they need an excuse?
Its a shame.

No they dont :x
but i do imagine it to be quite entertaining when they do give one ^^

Lol.
Maybe they should touch this topic in WD.

Ah, kanluwen is here..

He can tell us all why it's ok, games workshop only put up prices because they love us and we're all a bunch of whinging bastards for not offering our pert arses to Mr Kirby in supplication.

/resigned sigh.

Kanluwen wrote:You're right. Privateer needs to raise their prices, if only so that they can get grumbled about too

2 things.

1) Privateer may very much be playing leap frog with their prices vs GW product.

2) Using other company's pricing to justify their increase is weak. It doesnt change the fact that its still an increase.
Not to mention PP was always expensive to start with , and it was acceptable to their customers.

I could care less about price raises that affect you mere mortals.

My FLGS runs an insanely useful discounting membership program, provided you're willing to shell out $20 a year.

Every $100 spent on a purchase nets you another 10% off, but it caps off at 70%. Very useful if you're starting a new game or making a Forge World order through them

I won't comment on the price increase except to say that I think they are making it harder and harder to support the local shops with full price purchases, which is a shame because I like spending time in and supporting local shops.

Due to the huge mark up a store only needs to do about $4000 USD a week on average to be in business. At a store only open Wed-Sun that breaks down like this:

Wed-Thu $250
Fri $1000
Sat $1500
Sun $1000

Those numbers would stun almost any other business for how low they are, not how high. Think about it like this, sell 20 $50 boxes on On Friday and Sunday and you are halfway there.

*edit* This doesn't factor in Christmas, system releases, etc.

I know this si shameless promotion, but people could, you know, try other games... From companies that are a little more sensitive to gamer's wallets at least.

Balance wrote:I know this si shameless promotion, but people could, you know, try other games... From companies that are a little more sensitive to gamer's wallets at least.

Dude, don't bring Dream Pod into this! We're discussing evil corporations!

Mahu wrote:Since these are european prices, I wonder how that will effect the US prices.

I think it has more to do with the currency exchange rates dropping because the EU is taking too many hits right now (which does effect the British Pound). The Dollar to US exchange is crazy good right now and expected to get better for us Americans. So you raise prices across the board, and you "make up" the difference is supposed losses from the US and other currencies higher exchange rates.

It seems like, if my math is right, about a 7% increase to common items. So I am guessing that a Land Raider Crusader will go from 57.75 to 61.75. Not a drastic increase, but you would think that in this economy you would want to keep prices level. They are already increasing their profit by publishing games that encourage large armies.

As it stands, the BPD to USD is about 1BPD:1.48USD.

Looking at the Dark Sphere numbers and running a quick conversion, all the current prices makes it favorable for Americans to order from the UK at the moment. The price bump brings it a bit more in line with US prices. The Army Book/Codex bumps are still strange, though.

The old saying is that the best cure for high prices is high prices. GW will lose market share to other alternatives.

Kanluwen wrote:I could care less about price raises that affect you mere mortals.

My FLGS runs an insanely useful discounting membership program, provided you're willing to shell out $20 a year.

Every $100 spent on a purchase nets you another 10% off, but it caps off at 70%. Very useful if you're starting a new game or making a Forge World order through them

Yes we are happy for you

Now , if such programs are available to the rest of GW customer base maybe it'll be relevant.

GW as a business has been looking at the short to mid term health of their company (because without profit there is no long term).

The truth is their key audience is no longer teens (unless the teens are the kids of parents who play/played). The key demographic is now gainfully employed adults. GW's price increases over the years have shown a recognition of the fact that their customer base has changed economic situation as they grew up.

GW does have to be careful though, since it doesn't necessarily take a huge number of sales decline to dramatically impact their bottom line. GW's logistics and warehousing operation is tremendously inefficient, if product starts to stick in their pipeline costs will rise.

Also, the switch to plastics banks on certain economies of scale. There is a tipping point in sales for each product, that if the sales dip they won't be able to recover cost of investment. And it is a product that requires continued investment, because there are a lot of companies in the econo range that have begun to use technology to close the feature gap between econo and luxury. So GW needs to stay ahead of competition (which is harder because they are bigger and less flexible as a company).

It seems that the cost cutting efforts have helped to get the ship upright for now, but for mid to large companies the danger isn't in cutting waste. It is ensuring the effective cost management culture within the company maintains as things rebound and risk management continues since when you are operating on bare bones it makes things a lot less fluid to react to changing conditions.

Later,
WR

Privateer is also a skirmish game. The outlay therefore is far lower.

I couldn't find any Inquisition stuff on that price increase list. Dark Eldar and Necrons but no Inquisition.

Read into that what you will.

Due to the huge mark up a store only needs to do about $4000 USD a week on average to be in business.

Turning a profit in the GW shops, an actual profit that makes it worth running the store all year, is harder than you think and the cost of renting and running a shop varies widely by location. I know of a popular local shop that seems to do good business that took 11 months out of 12 to get "into the black". Once the fiscal year is over in one more month they'll be starting all over again. Running a store is expensive, very expensive and many days are slow especially in these economic times.

While I dislike higher prices as much as the next customer, the first order of business for any business is to stay in business. You can't serve your customers at all if you go out of business.

Just out of curiosity, has any other store besides Dark Sphere confirmed or announced this price increase?

Privateer's prices are part of why I got out of wm, in the main. But GW does do exceedingly pretty tanks...

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Privateer is also a skirmish game. The outlay therefore is far lower.

This is a very important note to remember.

WM/Hordes are purportedly skirmish games, but anyone who's run up against - or run - a cryx infantry army will tell you otherwise. And hey, let's face it, in a skirmish game you say to yourself, "Heck, I can afford all the different toys, it's not so much - it's a skirmish game!"

DrunkenBoxer wrote:Just out of curiosity, has any other store besides Dark Sphere confirmed or announced this price increase?

I know someone who is currently trying to get confirmation from US retailers on this to see if it's a global increase. The lid won't stay on information like this for long now that the UK announcement is out, so I'm sure we'll all know shortly.

CITADEL WOOD £15.00 £16.50 £11.25 £12.38

That is to say, I've got Citadel wood.

TBH I find nearly all sci-fi/fantasy games rather overpriced for my tastes these days.

I get as much fun out of historicals nowadays, so that tends to be where my efforts drift these days. And there I find the better value-for-money on offer makes me fell a lot happier about my hobby.

There's something about knowing your model cost you an arm and a leg that takes the fun out of painting and playing with it!

Sometimes at these prices I expect my fantasy/sci-fi models to come already painted, by nubile swinsuit models, in chocolate and pure gold...

Osbad wrote:Sometimes at these prices I expect my fantasy/sci-fi models to come already painted, by nubile swinsuit models, in chocolate and pure gold...

You know, if GW came out and said that this was the reason, I would be totally unfussed by the price increase .

Terminators are going up? Seriously? That's about the most overpriced set out there...gah.

Now I have to go to my local GW and give my condolences to the guy running it.

I do my best to throw my GW a bone here and there, just cuz the manager is a good guy who likes to see the community playing.

We had a long discussion about how GW seems to do all they can to make the shops irrelevant.

And here they go cranking the prices up again when they already have a tough time hitting the target sales.

Are they trying to justify the closure of all storefronts by jacking up prices yet again.

I have to use an online discounter to feel like I am paying more than fair value. WTF

BrassScorpion wrote:

DrunkenBoxer wrote:Just out of curiosity, has any other store besides Dark Sphere confirmed or announced this price increase?

I know someone who is currently trying to get confirmation from US retailers on this to see if it's a global increase. The lid won't stay on information like this for long now that the UK announcement is out, so I'm sure we'll all know shortly.

Neal at the Warstore hasn't heard anything yet, but he admits that he isn't always the first to hear about these things.

Utter s !

If people are stupid enough to pay the new prices that's their problem.

du du du dun Ebaaay.

As far as impacting local shops goes.... yeah it could but I don't think it's gonna be that bad. Folks will still buy their models regardless. Some will buy less but overall it's an addictive hobby. Shops can still be a GW stockist without breaking their bank because all that's required is something like 2 of all the basic things, like the starter sets, basic troops for each army and a couple transports. GW designs their list of required stuff based on what you will sell the most.. like marine tactical squads and drop pods and really common things. Other things like blisters, batallions/battleforces, even codexes and main rulebooks and paints are optional.

A good shop will start with this minimal investment and grow their inventory over time based on what is selling and what their customers are into, while running events to support the product. Do enough tournaments and mega battles and people will be buying stuff and/or special ordering what you don't have.

Prices are gonna go up every year like clockwork. GW isn't gonna stop raising them till people stop buying, and that's not gonna happen just due to the obsessive nature that most gamers tend to have

If 40k and WFB were skirmish level games the direct comparisons with competitors would be relevant.

They haven't been skirmish for a long while, if ever.

I have plenty of experience around players of Privateer Press games. Building a Warmachine faction and hoping to be anywhere near competitive usually involves getting at least one of each unit. If not multiple instances. THe casters change and are added enough, plus you need multiple lists, that most army collections come close or rival GW army collections as far as price.

You play what you want, and I have nothing against either games.

But from a "bang for your buck" perspective, I much prefer Games Workshop, even for their higher prices. A Drop Pod, though a low pointed item in a Space Marine force, is a lot bigger and contains a crap ton more pieces then a similarly priced plastic Warmachine jack that is rather on the small size.

And let's not talk about Calvary. Do we really want to compare the two companies metal clavary prices.

I am not knocking Privateer Press, they create a valid alternative.

What they don't do is provide a competitive pricing structure to Games Workshop. They don't sell miniatures cheat enough to cut into GW's bottom line and play price wars. If fact, I would guess the opposite, they probably base their pricing structure off Games Workshop and sees what they can get away with, while creating the perception that there game is cheaper.

Nothing wrong with that, it's good business.

Mahu wrote:I have plenty of experience around players of Privateer Press games. Building a Warmachine faction and hoping to be anywhere near competitive usually involves getting at least one of each unit. If not multiple instances. THe casters change and are added enough, plus you need multiple lists, that most army collections come close or rival GW army collections as far as price.

You play what you want, and I have nothing against either games.

But from a "bang for your buck" perspective, I much prefer Games Workshop, even for their higher prices. A Drop Pod, though a low pointed item in a Space Marine force, is a lot bigger and contains a crap ton more pieces then a similarly priced plastic Warmachine jack that is rather on the small size.

And let's not talk about Calvary. Do we really want to compare the two companies metal clavary prices.

I am not knocking Privateer Press, they create a valid alternative.

What they don't do is provide a competitive pricing structure to Games Workshop. They don't sell miniatures cheat enough to cut into GW's bottom line and play price wars. If fact, I would guess the opposite, they probably base their pricing structure off Games Workshop and sees what they can get away with, while creating the perception that there game is cheaper.

Nothing wrong with that, it's good business.

Yes the later part of your paragraph is what i mentioned about leap frogging prices.
Though to be honest , when you insist so much on comparing warjack to that "one" drop pod , it almost seems like a desperate attempt to defend GW.
Because then i can do this as well:

http://shop.warlordgames.co.uk/

Scottywan82 wrote:Very articulate, Flashman. Okay guys, this thread's a wrap!



EDIT: The Codices are going up? Really? And the Aspect Warrior Boxes? We're talking about 6 figures! Tops! How much can you charge for 6 metal guys?

Well PP currently has a box of 4 Tharn Ravagers for $55.99. However, PP makes better miniatures and better paints. And a better magazine.

EDIT: Wanted to add that everything after the first sentence is an opinion not a fact.

Osbad wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:Fleabay, Maelstrom, Wayland for my fix but those damn direct only items

Which is fair enough, but of course they are going up by 13% as well. So your "discounted" Maelstrom et al items will cost in June what is full retail at the moment.

The only defence against GW price rises is to stuff 'em and go collect something else.

True... and I actually collect tons of other minis.
Price wise I save a lot more than the regular english man... you see prices outside UK are considerably higher... around here its so high I dont buy a single thing.

LunaHound wrote:

Mahu wrote:I have plenty of experience around players of Privateer Press games. Building a Warmachine faction and hoping to be anywhere near competitive usually involves getting at least one of each unit. If not multiple instances. THe casters change and are added enough, plus you need multiple lists, that most army collections come close or rival GW army collections as far as price.

You play what you want, and I have nothing against either games.

But from a "bang for your buck" perspective, I much prefer Games Workshop, even for their higher prices. A Drop Pod, though a low pointed item in a Space Marine force, is a lot bigger and contains a crap ton more pieces then a similarly priced plastic Warmachine jack that is rather on the small size.

And let's not talk about Calvary. Do we really want to compare the two companies metal clavary prices.

I am not knocking Privateer Press, they create a valid alternative.

What they don't do is provide a competitive pricing structure to Games Workshop. They don't sell miniatures cheat enough to cut into GW's bottom line and play price wars. If fact, I would guess the opposite, they probably base their pricing structure off Games Workshop and sees what they can get away with, while creating the perception that there game is cheaper.

Nothing wrong with that, it's good business.

Yes the later part of your paragraph is what i mentioned about leap frogging prices.
Though to be honest , when you insist so much on comparing warjack to that "one" drop pod , it almost seems like a desperate attempt to defend GW.
Because then i can do this as well:

http://shop.warlordgames.co.uk/

@lunahound What??? 10% free shipping? what?

When will GW learn they need to lower prices, not raise them. All raising them does is make more people shop from cheaper sites like gifts for geeks instead of buying from a site where everything costs about 10 times as much as it does to produce. Literally. The least overpriced things they do are paints but they still cost about three times as much to buy than to produce. They don't even need more money judging by the astronomical profits they've made in the last 20 years. Come on, GW, your really starting to me off.

c34r34lk1ll3r wrote:Well PP currently has a box of 4 Tharn Ravagers for $55.99. However, PP makes better miniatures and better paints. And a better magazine.

I can't vouch for the paints, though I'll agree with the magazine (and general feedback support) for PP.

I would argue the point about miniatures, but that's more of an aesthetic preference more than anything else. I wouldn't make an objective statement about the quality of minis (aesthetics - not getting into actual kit quality) though.

Mr. Burning wrote:@lunahound What??? 10% free shipping? what?

lol sorry about that , i wasnt familiar with their product line so i was hoping you can click the "Range"
area and browse them yourself. But this looks sort of fun and interesting http://shop.warlordgames.co.uk/imperial-roman-legionary-sprue-244-p.asp

But the prices are also significantly lower than GW's making the GW vs PP leap frogging price / comparison moot.

LunaHound wrote:

Yes the later part of your paragraph is what I mentioned about leap frogging prices.
Though to be honest , when you insist so much on comparing warjack to that "one" drop pod , it almost seems like a desperate attempt to defend GW.
Because then i can do this as well:

http://shop.warlordgames.co.uk/

Probably because it's not a "desperate attempt to defend GW", but him using a valid comparison?

There's really no easy way to do a comparison between GW and Privateer's stuff anyways, since Games Workshop prices their kits based on the army slot and what the kit is made of.

However, if you want a better comparison than a Space Marine player's?

Compare those Warjacks at $18-25 and their contents to the Imperial Guard Sentinel kit.

LunaHound wrote:

Mr. Burning wrote:@lunahound What??? 10% free shipping? what?

lol sorry about that , i wasnt familiar with their product line so i was hoping you can click the "Range"
area and browse them yourself. But this looks sort of fun and interesting http://shop.warlordgames.co.uk/imperial-roman-legionary-sprue-244-p.asp

But the prices are also significantly lower than GW's making the GW vs PP leap frogging price / comparison moot.

I thought that that was what you meant to show.

Pricing really bears relation to what each individual company needs to sell at.

LunaHound wrote:

Mr. Burning wrote:@lunahound What??? 10% free shipping? what?

lol sorry about that , i wasnt familiar with their product line so i was hoping you can click the "Range"
area and browse them yourself. But this looks sort of fun and interesting http://shop.warlordgames.co.uk/imperial-roman-legionary-sprue-244-p.asp

But the prices are also significantly lower than GW's making the GW vs PP leap frogging price / comparison moot.

Warlord Games is also a small start-up company started by a former member of GW whose intent is to aim at the Historical crowd.

Historicals have a very difficult market to cater to, since there are plenty of model companies out there(Zveda, Tamiya, Dragon, Haesagawa) that have all released kits of one form or another that can easily be used.

There's also no "set" style of rules for historicals, and a kit like that could be used in dozens of games--resulting in a huge market share for a minimum of outlay.

I really wonder when GW can no longer rely on people buying their product when they no longer see it as ubiquitous?

Key people in a group drop out of their games due to whatever reason. The rest of the people either take up the mantle or drop it as well.

Slowly, less and less people are playing their games.
One of the main reasons why so many people put up with crappy GW rules and their extortionate pricing is due to easily being able to find opponents due to the perceived ubiquity of their games.

It seems those days are slowly coming to an end.
People seems angry about WHFB, no matter what GW are trying to do to the game. They ruined 7th ed and now people dont want what they hear is coming. Good or not, I am noticing a distinct lack of enthusiasm here for WHFB which is fairly strong.

Sadly, it will be the retailers on the street that will pay the price because Magic The Gathering can only carry a store so far. FLGS's which predominantly cater to miniature games are surely put in a crimp.

I see this as a preemptive cash grab due to licensing. By the time the 40K MMOrpg comes out and the 40K movie, people are going to flood the stores to buy this product they see so much hub-bub about.
LotR the same thing. The hobbitmovie is not sceduled any earlier than 2012 and this gives GW plenty of time to raise prices prior to the next wave of LotR collectors to buy their models.
WHFB...well there is a new edition just around the corner. What better way to welcome it than to bump the prices for their crappy dwarves?

Kanluwen wrote:

LunaHound wrote:

Yes the later part of your paragraph is what I mentioned about leap frogging prices.
Though to be honest , when you insist so much on comparing warjack to that "one" drop pod , it almost seems like a desperate attempt to defend GW.
Because then i can do this as well:

http://shop.warlordgames.co.uk/

Probably because it's not a "desperate attempt to defend GW", but him using a valid comparison?

There's really no easy way to do a comparison between GW and Privateer's stuff anyways, since Games Workshop prices their kits based on the army slot and what the kit is made of.

However, if you want a better comparison than a Space Marine player's?

Compare those Warjacks at $18-25 and their contents to the Imperial Guard Sentinel kit.

Look. Anyone can dig up another company's product in favor of GW's pricing.
Just like what i did i dug up warlord's to make GW's pricing unfavorable.

Hence i mentioned as it was an attempt to defend because anyone can compare it that way.

You know what this situation is like kan? This is just like when i say " i dont like GW's design for this thing " and you replied " if you dont like it , keep it to yourself "
in other words , you like things that favors GW , and when something unfavorable to them occurs , you have a problem with it despite its all the same situation.

In other words, Biased.

I'm still waiting for a logical response rather than namecalling.

Well I'm really hoping that Star Wars game comes to light over at Battlefront, as I know where most of my gaming funds will be going if it does.

Kanluwen wrote:I'm still waiting for a logical response rather than namecalling.

There are no name calling, if there is , show me and i will be more than willing to apologize.

Logical response was given , whether you understand it or not is not my concern ( anymore ).

LunaHound wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

LunaHound wrote:

Yes the later part of your paragraph is what I mentioned about leap frogging prices.
Though to be honest , when you insist so much on comparing warjack to that "one" drop pod , it almost seems like a desperate attempt to defend GW.
Because then i can do this as well:

http://shop.warlordgames.co.uk/

Probably because it's not a "desperate attempt to defend GW", but him using a valid comparison?

There's really no easy way to do a comparison between GW and Privateer's stuff anyways, since Games Workshop prices their kits based on the army slot and what the kit is made of.

However, if you want a better comparison than a Space Marine player's?

Compare those Warjacks at $18-25 and their contents to the Imperial Guard Sentinel kit.

Look. Anyone can dig up another company's product in favor of GW's pricing.
Just like what i did i dug up warlord's to make GW's pricing unfavorable.

Hence i mentioned as it was an attempt to defend because anyone can compare it that way.

You know what this situation is like kan? This is just like when i say " i dont like GW's design for this thing " and you replied " if you dont like it , keep it to yourself "
in other words , you like things that favors GW , and when something unfavorable to them occurs , you have a problem with it despite its all the same situation.

In other words, Biased.

Kanluwen wrote:I'm still waiting for a logical response rather than namecalling.

Luna is spot on. Direct price comparison, is really pointless.

Hellfury wrote:I really wonder when GW can no longer rely on people buying their product when they no longer see it as ubiquitous?

Key people in a group drop out of their games due to whatever reason. The rest of the people either take up the mantle or drop it as well.

Slowly, less and less people are playing their games.
One of the main reasons why so many people put up with crappy GW rules and their extortionate pricing is due to easily being able to find opponents due to the perceived ubiquity of their games.

It seems those days are slowly coming to an end.
People seems angry about WHFB, no matter what GW are trying to do to the game. They ruined 7th ed and now people dont want what they hear is coming. Good or not, I am noticing a distinct lack of enthusiasm here for WHFB which is fairly strong.

Sadly, it will be the retailers on the street that will pay the price because Magic The Gathering can only carry a store so far. FLGS's which predominantly cater to miniature games are surely put in a crimp.

I see this as a preemptive cash grab due to licensing. By the time the 40K MMOrpg comes out and the 40K movie, people are going to flood the stores to buy this product they see so much hub-bub about.
LotR the same thing. The hobbitmovie is not sceduled any earlier than 2012 and this gives GW plenty of time to raise prices prior to the next wave of LotR collectors to buy their models.
WHFB...well there is a new edition just around the corner. What better way to welcome it than to bump the prices for their crappy dwarves?

man's got a point.

LunaHound wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

LunaHound wrote:

Yes the later part of your paragraph is what I mentioned about leap frogging prices.
Though to be honest , when you insist so much on comparing warjack to that "one" drop pod , it almost seems like a desperate attempt to defend GW.
Because then i can do this as well:

http://shop.warlordgames.co.uk/

Probably because it's not a "desperate attempt to defend GW", but him using a valid comparison?

There's really no easy way to do a comparison between GW and Privateer's stuff anyways, since Games Workshop prices their kits based on the army slot and what the kit is made of.

However, if you want a better comparison than a Space Marine player's?

Compare those Warjacks at $18-25 and their contents to the Imperial Guard Sentinel kit.

Look. Anyone can dig up another company's product in favor of GW's pricing.
Just like what i did i dug up warlord's to make GW's pricing unfavorable.

You did nothing to "make GW's pricing unfavorable". You're using a company which sells things, unpackaged and by the sprue, as a comparison.

Comparisons don't work too well if you stack the deck in the comparison.

Hence i mentioned as it was an attempt to defend because anyone can compare it that way.

Of course it was an attempt to defend GW. He's making no secret of the fact that he prefers GW to Privateer.

You know what this situation is like Kan? This is just like when i say " I don't like GW's design for this thing " and you replied " if you don't like it , keep it to yourself "
in other words , you like things that favors GW , and when something unfavorable to them occurs , you have a problem with it despite its all the same situation.

No, I like comparisons that actually make sense. If you're going to participate in a grown-up debate, do some research into what you're debating. Don't just post as fast as possible to keep yourself in the middle of the debate.

In other words, Biased.

The cry of someone who can't make a decent argument.

Thats easily taken care of kanluwen ,

Like i said im not familiar with their product line so i linked the wrong thing ,

http://shop.warlordgames.co.uk/plastic-imperial-roman-legionaries-boxed-set-80-p.asp

And now kan? It comes with a nice shinny box and very good quality transfers.
If thats the only thing you can nitpick , then i must say what i said earlier still stands just the same easily.

You did nothing to "make GW's pricing unfavorable". You're using a company which sells things, unpackaged and by the sprue, as a comparison.

Comparisons don't work too well if you stack the deck in the comparison.

This is what Lunahound IS saying.(I dont want to put words in mouths though) Comparing other companies products by price isn't viable.

Look. Anyone can dig up another company's product in favor of GW's pricing.
Just like what i did i dug up warlord's to make GW's pricing unfavorable.

If anything Historicals actually prove my point rather then disproving it.

You have a subsection of the industry where competition for similar like items keep prices down.

Like it or not Privateer Press is probably the closest thing that Games Workshop has to a competitor, as they are both miniatures companies that produce their own rules for their own IP.

This isn't a discussion of what company treats its rules better, or has better practices, but strictly of price of models.

There are certain price breaks and price gouging both companies do. My point is that Privateer doesn't make their miniatures cheap enough to significantly provide GW a reason to worry about its own. And until there is a company that can produce game systems like Games Workshop does for a cheaper price, GW has no reason to modify it's price structure.

At the end of the day, buying miniatures is a privilege, and they are a luxury item. Until real competition enters the market, GW can do basically what it wants. They won't price themselves out of existence, because they will always be looking at their bottom line, but Privateer Press and other companies are really only justifying them in their decisions at this point.

I am not apologizing for GW, that is just the cold reality of what is happening.

Mr. Burning wrote:
Luna is spot on. Direct price comparison, is really pointless.

If you compare the kits themselves...

We've got the Sentinel, as off the top of my head the closest comparison to the price point of a Warjack and in terms of size, which gives you enough bits to make the Sentinel--and with clever pinning/magnets, some six different weapon options(Plasma Cannon, Autocannon, Heavy Flamer, Missile Launcher, Lascannon, or Multilaser) and two different variants of the Sentinel (Armored and Recon).

Compare that to Privateer's plastic warjacks,which can be built into one of three variants, (and as far as I'm aware--each has a very distinct profile showing which is which) or metal warjacks along the same price point/size which can only be built into one specific type.

Are you kidding me? how high is this stuff going to rise. Pretty soon we will all be financing our miniatures.

LunaHound wrote:Thats easily taken care of kanluwen ,

Like i said im not familiar with their product line so i linked the wrong thing ,

http://shop.warlordgames.co.uk/plastic-imperial-roman-legionaries-boxed-set-80-p.asp

And now kan?

Puts it at the same price as a GW kit, when you do a currency conversion.

But as I said earlier:
Warlord is competing in a market that GW isn't(the Historical market) wherein there's huge numbers of competitors all making the same thing.

Games Workshop isn't worried about that, because nobody else can legally make a "Space Marine Tactical Squad".

Kanluwen wrote:

Mr. Burning wrote:
Luna is spot on. Direct price comparison, is really pointless.

If you compare the kits themselves...

We've got the Sentinel, as off the top of my head the closest comparison to the price point of a Warjack and in terms of size, which gives you enough bits to make the Sentinel--and with clever pinning/magnets, some six different weapon options(Plasma Cannon, Autocannon, Heavy Flamer, Missile Launcher, Lascannon, or Multilaser) and two different variants of the Sentinel (Armored and Recon).

Compare that to Privateer's plastic warjacks,which can be built into one of three variants, (and as far as I'm aware--each has a very distinct profile showing which is which) or metal warjacks along the same price point/size which can only be built into one specific type.

The perceived utility of a product is a different kettle of fish.
Sentinel looks to be better value if you play 40k. Play WM then the sentinel is just over priced plastic and vis a versa.

Cheese Elemental wrote:Once again, I'm reminded of the miracles of Maelstrom.

Even with That, I'm not sure its still reasonable anymore. Thats not a knock on Maelstrom, but looking at the discount on something thats already too expensive, not sure its as good anymore.

The sky is falling it seems

If anything Historicals actually prove my point rather then disproving it.

You have a subsection of the industry where competition for similar like items keep prices down.

Yes , but such tradition taken for granted can be easily changed.

Like it or not Privateer Press is probably the closest thing that Games Workshop has to a competitor, as they are both miniatures companies that produce their own rules for their own IP.

This isn't a discussion of what company treats its rules better, or has better practices, but strictly of price of models.

Yes , and every company have their cheap products and expensive products , which is why i mentioned its not viable to compare them that way.

There are certain price breaks and price gouging both companies do. My point is that Privateer doesn't make their miniatures cheap enough to significantly provide GW a reason to worry about its own. And until there is a company that can produce game systems like Games Workshop does for a cheaper price, GW has no reason to modify it's price structure.

Yes , hence i said leap frog very often.

At the end of the day, buying miniatures is a privilege, and they are a luxury item. Until real competition enters the market, GW can do basically what it wants. They won't price themselves out of existence, because they will always be looking at their bottom line, but Privateer Press and other companies are really only justifying them in their decisions at this point.

And i agree , i mentioned it back in page 1 :3

Kanluwen wrote:Warlord is competing in a market that GW isn't(the Historical market) wherein there's huge numbers of competitors all making the same thing.

Well, technically GW is competing in the historial market...
http://www.warhammer-historical.com/

and there hasn't been another surge in "raw materials" which I've always found difficult to believe.

Admittedly we are seeing Steel, Nickel, and several other heavy metals increasing in price. Thiswould be some explanation for the increase in the metals but an across the board increase on books and everything else is just unaceptable. I have said this before and will say it again, this is the way corporate worlds work right now. So many companies are buying into this toxic idea that if they jack up price there is an acceptable amount of loss in customers but their operating income and margins will increase enough to balance this out. In other words they sell less and make more money. It is a short term solution to a long term problem and will eventually erode customer base for the majority of companies that are doing it. But for now they think it is the way to go and most are hiring marketing firms to help them acheive these higher prices.

Mr. Burning wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Mr. Burning wrote:
Luna is spot on. Direct price comparison, is really pointless.

If you compare the kits themselves...

We've got the Sentinel, as off the top of my head the closest comparison to the price point of a Warjack and in terms of size, which gives you enough bits to make the Sentinel--and with clever pinning/magnets, some six different weapon options(Plasma Cannon, Autocannon, Heavy Flamer, Missile Launcher, Lascannon, or Multilaser) and two different variants of the Sentinel (Armored and Recon).

Compare that to Privateer's plastic warjacks,which can be built into one of three variants, (and as far as I'm aware--each has a very distinct profile showing which is which) or metal warjacks along the same price point/size which can only be built into one specific type.

The perceived utility of a product is a different kettle of fish.
Sentinel looks to be better value if you play 40k. Play WM then the sentinel is just over priced plastic and vis a versa.

Oh definitely, it's fantastic value to me as a Guard player. But a Sentinel won't be a good value if you're playing Space Marines or Necrons.

And comparing the prices between the two games is another can of worms that's based off what can be repped where.

And it's even more ridiculous using a company which is filling a niche where they're spread all across game systems rather than restricted to one as an example to a company limiting itself to one specific niche.

The Night Stalker wrote:Are you kidding me? how high is this stuff going to rise. Pretty soon we will all be financing our miniatures.

Shoosh you! Don't go giving them ideas!

Oh wait... I do that now. It's called "Visa".

@kan , forgive me for saying this but.

From the 2 post above your last post you made , i can tell you are still confused of the purpose of the comparison i gave.
( and what MrBurning interpreted to my purpose is correct )

Thus i cannot discuss things if you keep misinterpreting what i said. Sorry but it ends here , unlike the past,
i no longer have the interest to venture with you when you go off tangent due to your lack of comprehension.

Having gone through the list, I'm glad I've stopped doing whole armies and now paint individual minis or squads. It makes what I buy more of an investment and I can spread out to other ranges like Malifaux, Infinity, PP etc. and improve my painting skills.
I won't boycott GW but I feel less beholden to them as it were.

Absolutionis wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Warlord is competing in a market that GW isn't(the Historical market) wherein there's huge numbers of competitors all making the same thing.

Well, technically GW is competing in the historical market...
http://www.warhammer-historical.com/

I'm well aware of that. They're competing in the rules half.

Games Workshop, however, does not produce Historical miniatures. Warlord, however, makes models that just so happen to be in scale and equipment very close.

Odd how that works from a former GW executive's company, right?

Now, if my memory isn't completely horrible.

I found the 2001 Christmas Catalogue in one of my gaming boxes last week, inside it were advertised 20 plastic Catachan models for 10 pounds.

Those (arguably awful!) Catachan models have remained unchanged for the last 10 to 11 years.

Now, it's 10 for 15 pounds.

So basically, they've tripled in cost per guy. From 50 pence each to £1.50 each.

Offhand, I can't think of a single price rise like that, even for 'luxury' items. Best I can come up with is the cinema, which has not quite doubled in that same period (then again, that might just be because I'm not a student anymore!).

Fishboy wrote:

and there hasn't been another surge in "raw materials" which I've always found difficult to believe.

Admittedly we are seeing Steel, Nickel, and several other heavy metals increasing in price. Thiswould be some explanation for the increase in the metals but an across the board increase on books and everything else is just unaceptable. I have said this before and will say it again, this is the way corporate worlds work right now. So many companies are buying into this toxic idea that if they jack up price there is an acceptable amount of loss in customers but their operating income and margins will increase enough to balance this out. In other words they sell less and make more money. It is a short term solution to a long term problem and will eventually erode customer base for the majority of companies that are doing it. But for now they think it is the way to go and most are hiring marketing firms to help them acheive these higher prices.

Steel is used in the molds for plastics...

The molds are apparently the most expensive part of plastic production, at least to get the fine detail like we're seeing on more recent GW kits.

LunaHound wrote:We should do a poll on price thresholds for different type of customers.

preteen
teens
university students
adults
adults with family

Great idea! Took it to heart and created a poll...

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/293952.page

OK, before this devolves into panic on the streets and dogs and cats living together...

Has anyone yet gotten any confirmation of a price increase from any other source besides Dark Sphere?

The amount of steel used in molds is comparatively miniscule so you're looking at a potential 10% raise in material cost spread that over the astronomical number of units these molds make and the relative cost is tiny.

The rise is quite true I would say. Expected it for some time since they canceled the compensation for the continental european LGS a few months ago.

At least continental stores now can order minis for prices that are somehow below what a british customer pays at a discount store and somehow make a living.

1. GW increases prices.
2. People quit hobby, reducing sales.
3. People who quit put their stuff on eBay.
4. People who didn't quit buy fewer models, reducing sales.
5. For the models they do buy, they look to online stores and eBay (which is now flooded with the product of those who quit), reducing sales.
6. Seeing the downturn in profit, GW goes to step 1.

It is not the steel in the mold that make it expensive it is the machinist that run the cnc mill that make it expensive. A mold for a kit sat a rhino will run about $250k to make. After the mold has produced 250k worth of product every penny that mold makes minus the wages of the plastic injection machine operator is profit.

DrunkenBoxer wrote:OK, before this devolves into panic on the streets and dogs and cats living together...

Has anyone yet gotten any confirmation of a price increase from any other source besides Dark Sphere?

Yup, was at my local Game Store today when he was putting his order through to GW and was told when he got off the phone

I really don't see what all the fuss is about. GW raises prices quite frequently. But what one should take into consideration is how much you spend versus the hours of enjoyment.

Take golf has an example. One round of golf will set you back $75 easy. It takes around 4 hours to play and then you are done.

A landraider is what $60? A few hours building the kit and painting it. Which I find enjoyable by the way. And then you have it forever to play as many games as you want.

I'm not sure if these will translate over to the US (I'm sure they will one way or another, even if it's on different stuff), but these look to represent a ~10-20% increase in price across the board depending on product, that's pretty painfully significant on top of what hit last year already. If the US follows suit, that means we'd have seen codex's go from $20 to $30 in about two years (33% increase!). Given the price increases on other units, there's no way this is sustainable as a business, in fact, I'm already of the opinion that some armies are already priced out of too many peoples ranges. It worries me as I don't see how this is going to be good for GW in the long run, and is doubtless not the last time we will see a price increase in the near future (~18 months). At the current trend, there's just no way anyone is going to be able to afford the hobby in five years, their "core" market of 14 year olds certainly won't (and can't already, although I've never really found that to be what their core market is), and the older crowd probably won't want to. It surprises me how many new (and already quite expensive) kits are on here.

I'd really like to know what on earth they are thinking.

Hi

Though I am no fan of price increases, I am in the plastics business and sell a variety of Materials.

I know that we are having issues with availability on Styrene and ABS. On top of this we have seen a number of price increase on raw material, from 5% to 12% a pop.

I know that the material is a small part of the productiomn, but it does add up.

Corry

Well, like everyone else has said, no big suprise there. We were being a little to hopefull that GW wouldnt raise prices this year due to their growth and stability in the market.

Fortunatley for me, I have plenty of armies of GW, that I can now start shopping other companies products and use them in my games (non-GW sanctioned events of course). Just a shame that I have to stop purchasing from a company I have been faithful to since 1989. I wont stop playing but I will stop paying. So many small time companies are putting out quality bits and models for equal or lower prices then GW. That is the way to stick it to them. Stop complaining if your not going to do anything about it is what Ive heard before, I think its time to follow that advice.

Jin wrote:

c34r34lk1ll3r wrote:Well PP currently has a box of 4 Tharn Ravagers for $55.99. However, PP makes better miniatures and better paints. And a better magazine.

I can't vouch for the paints, though I'll agree with the magazine (and general feedback support) for PP.

I would argue the point about miniatures, but that's more of an aesthetic preference more than anything else. I wouldn't make an objective statement about the quality of minis (aesthetics - not getting into actual kit quality) though.

Should I have added that this was my opinion?

This really makes me glad about my purchase from Mantic Games of an Undead army.

For less than $200 US, I got more than enough models for a VC army.
I can fill out my choices with stuff from Reaper and other small companies.

Plus, I have the cash to pick up forces for Malifaux, Uncharted Seas, and some Warmachine stuff.

Just curious. I did the math on the IG and few SM units. All of your "price increases" are actually just under, yes under, the current prices listed in the USA website. Am I missing something or are your prices just catching up to what we have been paying since last year?

whill4 wrote:I really don't see what all the fuss is about. GW raises prices quite frequently. But what one should take into consideration is how much you spend versus the hours of enjoyment.

Take golf has an example. One round of golf will set you back $75 easy. It takes around 4 hours to play and then you are done.

A landraider is what $60? A few hours building the kit and painting it. Which I find enjoyable by the way. And then you have it forever to play as many games as you want.

Jervis J. is proud of your answer my son

Now please bend over and pull your boxers down for him.

The fuss is exactly because GW is doing this so frequently and with shady reasoning. A lot of small % add up to a large % real fast over only a couple of years. When does it become a fuss for people like you too? I'm curious. A 25% price raise? A 50% raise? Or a 75% one maybe? Let's pay $80 for your Land Raider! Or $100!

At a certain point it becomes rediculous, and the prices start to outweigh the oh so fun enjoyment.

And for the nitwits (I know they are always out there), this is not about being able to afford, it is about being prepaired to pay amount X for product Y, getting your money's worth and not wanting to take it up the arse from GW or anyone else selling stuff.

For the people not feeling the pinch let me say this ahead of time.

GW just havnt hit your threshold yet , and when they do surely , you'll be complaining as well xD

Do the Kings of War/Mantic Games scale well with GW stuff?

One thing I realized recently. I went to buy a 12pack of Pepsi.
The price was just shy of $5. Not too long ago, they were still around $3.50.
Many other food/drink items have seen similar increases.

With this information available, how does GW think people have more money to spend/give to their children for GW stuff?

My food costs have increased ~15%. that is less available for entertainment.
I already cut back on my DVD and movie spending, nearly eliminated my music purchases, and am only buying paperback novels.
Over half of what I spend on miniatures now goes to not-GW.
I am single with a sizable disposable income, and I cannot justify spending on GW when things continue to go up.


I used to compare GW to hobbies like golf and paintball, but even there, GW is the country club membership and custom fit clubs.
All I need is a public course and a set from a decent pro-shop.

Isn't that why you join a golf club? So that you pay an annual membership fee and then that's you.

Additionally, don't golf clubs generally depreciate in value? Most club makers always have a 'new and improved' type they bring out to justify any price increases.

It seems rather unlikely that you'd have a golf company produce the exact same type of club, in the exact same format that's exactly identical in every way and trying to justify tripling their prices over 10 years.

I'm also pretty sure that people buy new armies at least twice (if not three times) as often as they buy a new set of clubs.

So, that pretty much leaves you with club membership, which is, of course, very expensive but gets cheaper the longer you remain a member of. And it's rather unlikely that a businessman is going to be able to take a client out for a fancy meal at GW!

As I said, I just can't see a logical example. Even every luxury item that I can think of depreciates in value as time goes on. Except, apparently, Imperial Guard infantry.

lowix wrote:Do the Kings of War/Mantic Games scale well with GW stuff?

They're true 28mm so a little smaller than the hoeric 28mm that GW produces. Between the elves and undead, the size difference isn't that big of deal IMHO because elves are supposed to be weedy and skeletons should be smaller than their fleshed foes.

hyperviper6 wrote:Just curious. I did the math on the IG and few SM units. All of your "price increases" are actually just under, yes under, the current prices listed in the USA website. Am I missing something or are your prices just catching up to what we have been paying since last year?

Can any one in the USA confirm a price increase, as hv6 said, maybe it is just a price reevaluation for the continued pound price fluxing.

c34r34lk1ll3r wrote:Should I have added that this was my opinion?

It does clarify the statement as opinion rather than seeming statement of fact, yes.

Hmm...where are the models for Warhammer 40k made anyway?

DnD miniatures are made in China. If Warhammer miniatures are not made there already, maybe they can just swing by China and see if they could produce those miniatures for us (they already print their books there).

Thanks, I'll add that. Would prefer to not confuse anyone up here.

temprus wrote:

hyperviper6 wrote:Just curious. I did the math on the IG and few SM units. All of your "price increases" are actually just under, yes under, the current prices listed in the USA website. Am I missing something or are your prices just catching up to what we have been paying since last year?

Can any one in the USA confirm a price increase, as hv6 said, maybe it is just a price reevaluation for the continued pound price fluxing.

He's not saying that there's a price raise in the US.

He's saying that we had a price raise in the US last year, and the UK is catching up to us with the recent change in the GBP/Euro/USD conversion rates.

Once you open the package, they do depreciate. just look at what people get on Bartertown and in the swapshop.

If its NIB, then you can advertise on e-bay "This box goes for $XX on GW Now!"

@Luna = GW has hit my threshold. Between the Cadian repack and LRBT and Chimera streamline, they have gotten downright blatant.

@lowix = Mantic undead scale great, especially since GW scaled back down with the latest rendition of undead.

@compel = That was kinda my point though. I don't need new armies. I have unbuilt stuff to keep me well into the future. I have only been buying to fill gaps in what I owned.
GW tries to position themselves as an elite product among Wargaming, but reality seems to be that those that don't play GW, and a fair chunk of GW players all
think they are overpriced.

Maybe comparing to NFL season tix would be a more comparable example.

edit stupid typo

skrulnik wrote:
@lowix = Mantic undead scale great, especially since GW scaled back down with the latest rendition of indead.

I like that. "Fear the indead forces as they fight against their outdead foes!!!"

I'm not making fun of you, I really did think that typo was funny.

This thread should not be this long this fast! GW's customers are supposed to be prince insensitive! PRICE INSENSITIVE!!!

So this isn't a US raise it's just GW matching the raises seen here last june to the pound?

In context to Kanluwen's post.

He's saying that we had a price raise in the US last year, and the UK is catching up to us with the recent change in the GBP/Euro/USD conversion rates.

A friend of mine also suggested the possibility that the UK price increase could be adjusting UK prices to match the falling value of the pound and euro. Of course they could just be raising prices. We shall see.

ಠ_ಠ

Where I live, GW's price hike is barely noticeable when compared to the cost of food and lodging.

agnosto wrote:

skrulnik wrote:
@lowix = Mantic undead scale great, especially since GW scaled back down with the latest rendition of indead.

I like that. "Fear the indead forces as they fight against their outdead foes!!!"

I'm not making fun of you, I really did think that typo was funny.

Well, they could have been ondead.

Personally I don't think the price hike is too big of a deal. People will still play the game and buy more models. The jump of a few dollars wont kill you.
on a note, if you do not enjoy paying full price buy online or local from independent retailers. You really only need one army to play.

Ball Park one army = $300 to $500
one army after price jump = $330 to $550

It is cheaper to start another game system than trying to update your army to meet the GW tournament standard these days. It is about time that people should open their eyes and look at other lines of miniatures.

wildger wrote:It is cheaper to start another game system than trying to update your army to meet the GW tournament standard these days. It is about time that people should open their eyes and look at other lines of miniatures.

It's about time other game companies came out with sweet multi-part plastic kits at the same quality level as GW.

Not even 10 years ago, an army would have set you back less than $200.

I could care less about plastic, I'd rather have pewter. If you want multi-part plastic model kits, go into historical modeling and you'll find lots of systems to go along Also, everyone should give Anima Tactics a try. A Tournament army costs as little as 1 Terminator squad.

I am curious on what affect this is going to have on the secondary market (ebay, trades and used models) and independent retailers. It seems like Independent retailers get the short end of the stick every time with this. I feel bad for all Game shop owners its like they love being the red headed step children of Games workshop :|

Not even 10 years ago, an army would have set you back less than $200.

??? A small, small army perhaps. The current Land Raider alone when it was released in 2000 was $45 US. Character models were half what they are now at around $8.50 instead of $17, but that seemed expensive then. Anyone building a relatively large collection still spent a few hundred dollars. Pricing is all relative to the time and this discussion thread with all of its apologies, complaints, etc. is the same at every price hike.

It is cheaper to start another game system than trying to update your army to meet the GW tournament standard these days. It is about time that people should open their eyes and look at other lines of miniatures.

Maybe true for the tournament crowd. Not every model collector or GW enthusiast is a tournament player. Some of us have no interest in tournaments and don't care for most of the models made by others, that's why we've been collecting Warhammer models for two decades.

I remember when tactical squads were 25$ and combat squads 15$.

Rhinos for 25$ as well.

Whats the problem. The company will charge what the market will bear. If it surpasses your price point then don't buy, and that will put pressure on them in turn to reduce the price nexus.

Can anyone actually name a direct competitor to 40K that is cost effective?
Miniature sets.
Setting/background.
Rules - Bearing in mind that 40k isn't skirmish level.



i

Frazzled wrote:Whats the problem. The company will charge what the market will bear. If it surpasses your price point then don't buy, and that will put pressure on them in turn to reduce the price nexus.

It's getting people to reach this epiphany that's the problem. I have no problem boycotting GW but trying to get more than a few like minded people to organize, especially warhammer nerds, is impossible.

All I can do is hold out till it improves.

Fight the power!

Howard A Treesong wrote:

It creeps up on you, and after a while you look back and find that you've not bought anything full price in ages. You didn't boycott or any nonsense like that, you just found that you stopped being tempted by stuff because it was so expensive, and then you realise that you've been skipping past your local GW when you go shopping instead of at least going in for a browse.

These price increases really hit the independent retailers though. As GW make so much through mail order and licencing they can afford to treat their shops as a highstreet advert which do little more than break even. Loss of sales and a very high wholesale cost hit the independent retailers, the whole thing becomes more expensive and risky, they get excessively punished for taking on stock that they can't shift and the outlay is so great on stock that they do manage to sell. My local shop has cut back on new stock, he's been burned by LOTR and doesn't stock White Dwarf like he used to because it simply doesn't seel in the numbers it once did, mainly because it's crap.

That above is pretty much it. Unless you quit the hobby, you'll never say never. The last thing I bought was a forgeworld ork warboss biker.....that was 2-3 months ago. Before that I really cant remember what I bought for orks.....had to be 6-12 months if anything. The only thing I might buy is a tau vehical to loot, IF I cant get it in trade.

I've got 5-7K points in orks. Almost all of it is from trades. I dont see myself every getting back in like I use to and buying a new army ever again. And the real loser is the independent stores I use to ages ago frequent. The days of dropping $300 in the store and getting a small discount, like killing the tax are long long long gone. And never will happen again.

It does upset me that independent retailers and LGS ultimately pay for this, but I'll do my damn best to support mine, despite only a discount on 30$ or more. I know what you mean Carmachu the sales tax in my town is like 10% now and no chance of killing it with any amount of purchase

I guess I should elaborate that I go to school so I live in two different places

Scottywan82 wrote:

wildger wrote:It is cheaper to start another game system than trying to update your army to meet the GW tournament standard these days. It is about time that people should open their eyes and look at other lines of miniatures.

It's about time other game companies came out with sweet multi-part plastic kits at the same quality level as GW.

+17!

I don't usually gripe about GW prices. It's a hobby that you decide if you can afford to follow or not. I'd love to collect Ferraris, but I don't quite have the finances to make that work, LOL.

But I will say this. I recently busted open a box of the new plastic Raveners, and inside found two very underwhelming small plastic sprues. Which cost $45 retail. Now, these Ravs were part of a large pre-order I placed using Paypal money that I'd built up through liquidation of unused hobby stuff. So the sting was kinda mollified in this case.

BUT had I walked into my FLGS, plopped down my $45 plus tax, taken the box home and opened it up that night...well, I would have felt like an a-hole for paying what I did. And I'm a decently paid professional with disposal income.

At some point, even people with deep pockets start to question the value, and that's a dangerous thing for GW. Especially considering they haven't yet stopped the bleeding with sales. I want to see them turn it around for real -- but honestly I have a hard time seeing how they're going to do it on their current path.

Oh, yes! When thinking about buying another batch of troops for my Tau oder Elysian Armies and a ne tank company for Flames of War, most of the times FoW wins. And I already DO have quite a collection of armies for the four main parties and the Italians!

I've been at this point before, at various different points of my life and bank balance, and while I'm not the sort of person who thinks that a boycott is an effective tool, I too have finally crossed the line where I feel I'm no longer getting value for my hobby. And to be honest, I really resent GW for placing me, a long standing, and I would say, fairly valued customer, in the position where I feel that I can no longer justify spending increasing amounts of money on what is 'only' a hobby rather then a necessity.

Isn't it a sad state of affairs where a company starts driving away it's clientèle and it's lifeblood. Can anyone seriously suggest any other company that is doing something similar to GW? I can't think offhand of any company that aggressively and systematically raises their prices like GW - and this is for models which have always been pretty expensive, if we are being honest. I remember saving up for my Epic Ork army back in the early 90's and I thought it was expensive then - these days, even with way more spending power, I still baulk at buying GW product, even from a discount store.

Luckily enough, I have enough painting and projects to keep me sustained and enough armies to keep me in games. But I will not be buying anything new from GW - and that will remain the case until prices start to fall (if ever).

If GW dropped prices, tonight, by 20% how many people, who wouldn't have ordered, would place an order with GW that instant?

what about a 30% reduction?

Would GW see the upsell it needed to justify a drop to RRP? even over the course of a 12 month trading period?

The thing is GW counts sales by what happens at the tills and what happens on their webstore. Whilst they may keep an ear to the ground only a huge dent in their takings against expected revenues will get them to take notice.

If they dropped by 20-30% I'm sure they would see their largest profit in years. I'm no business major but it would be a large success in the realms of moving stock.

But pay for the grunts and trolls that are enslaved to GW, what would they get?

I wonder if anyone here has any insight on to what could happen if this occured.

Moving stock is not a concern as they are vertically integrated and produce only exactly what they need, there isn't much warehousing that takes place. Moving it by selling it is good, but its not like they need to move it to make room for more. They control the entire process from top to bottom.

The hobby gene idea is brilliant, and it works. I still want to buy more from them even though I personally have grudges against several key people in the North American business that are horrible no good lying scum that don't care about a single employee or customer.

But I love GW itself!

If they dropped prices, I would be like my sister seeing a shoe sale. Buy, buy, buy!

Not because I need or want, but because it is on sale.

Illogical, but true.

Maybe we should send them a massive letter detailing that we want a 20% price break.

I'm sure even the most adamant GW advocate neckbeard would enjoy price cuts.

If it's something all wargamers on Dakka we can agree on is that we want lower prices!

temprus wrote:

hyperviper6 wrote:Just curious. I did the math on the IG and few SM units. All of your "price increases" are actually just under, yes under, the current prices listed in the USA website. Am I missing something or are your prices just catching up to what we have been paying since last year?

Can any one in the USA confirm a price increase, as hv6 said, maybe it is just a price reevaluation for the continued pound price fluxing.

I was pinched for time when I posted the first time so here is some comparisons.

IMPERIAL GUARD VALKYRIE £35.00 -> £37.50
UK£ 37.50 = $56.20875 U.S. dollars (Source: Google.com)
Games-workshop.com (USA) $58.00
That means you still save on the Valkyrie by just over 1£

SPACE MARINE DROP POD £18.00 -> £20.00
UK£ 20.00 = $29.97800 U.S. dollars
Games-workshop.com (USA) $30.00
Almost dead on for price

IMPERIAL GUARD CADIAN SHOCK TROOPS £12.00 -> £15.00
UK£ 15.00 = 22.4835 U.S. dollars
Games-workshop.com (USA) $22.00
Almost dead on for price

So while you guys are complaining about prices, it looks like your just being brought on to the price structure that the USA experienced last June. As far as I can tell it has not changed anyones buying habits here. We got our time to complain about it last year, I guess its your turn this year. One the other hand, you could be appreciative that they gave you an extra year to prepare for it by keeping your prices down.

(Disclaimer: coversion rate at the time of this math according to google.com 1 UK£ = 0.03804666 U.S. Dollars/1 U.S. dollar = 0.667155914 UK£)

I have been told by US Trade Sales that yes, GW US will be raising prices on June 1st. They don't have a comprehensive list for me yet, and I may not get it for a week. I am expecting a price increase similar to what the UK is getting. Wait and see, but this is not just in the UK by any means.

You guys are dreaming regarding a price cut. GW's never going to do that and damage their margins.

I just want to see some new ideas and business strategies beyond just firing people and raising prices.


Edit: Woo-hoo! 2000 posts on new Dakka...I'm a tunneling Trygon!

mikhaila wrote:I have been told by US Trade Sales that yes, GW US will be raising prices on June 1st. They don't have a comprehensive list for me yet, and I may not get it for a week. I am expecting a price increase similar to what the UK is getting. Wait and see, but this is not just in the UK by any means.

So your telling me that Uk's prices are being raised to match the USA prices, then the USA prices are getting raised over the UK's again.

If anyone in the UK thinks that the price increase is to much, be glad your not in the USA.

Hmmm. Gives new meaning to "yanks".

Time to lube up!

According to XE.com it's actually:

1 USD = 0.672887 GBP

1 GBP = 1.48613 USD

So $55.71 USD for the Valk. So nearly $3 USD cheaper.

Seems as if the GBP has dropped in value. XE had the exchange rate at 1.67 back in January.

Hmm, the LoC has dropped from $225 US since January to $200 US. Nice.

@Fateweaver:

mikhaila wrote:I have been told by US Trade Sales that yes, GW US will be raising prices on June 1st. They don't have a comprehensive list for me yet, and I may not get it for a week. I am expecting a price increase similar to what the UK is getting. Wait and see, but this is not just in the UK by any means.

In case ya missed it!

A 20% price cut would just never happen. I wouldn't even expect a 5% cut. They don't even do sales. I mean, they best they can do in their online store is free shipping. It would be great if they would do things like other stores and do special sales on some slower moving product to get it moving again, but I feel they generally think "if we build it, they will come". us nerds will eventually buy our toys no matter what.

But, I would like to see them bring back more formations and package deals that are discounted a bit like when Apocalypse first came out.

I wasn't arguing there won't be a US price increase.

Just pointing out that Googles currency converter is wrong.

US raising prices again does not effect FW so not really sure what I missed.

Fateweaver wrote:I wasn't arguing there won't be a US price increase.

Just pointing out that Googles currency converter is wrong.

US raising prices again does not effect FW so not really sure what I missed.

The part you posted about the Valk. Dont think the price is going down on that one...

Love the sig btw...

Actually, this may help LGS's (in the short run, anyway) considering that their inventory becomes more valuable over night.

And I'm assuming that GW will increase the prices because they feel that the customers will keep buying.

I've been in this hobby since the early 1990's, and it was already considered expensive back then. Around 2004 was when it broke my back, and I reduced my spending dramatically (no more new armies, just rules and codices). I'm assuming that there are enough youngsters entering the hobby to keep up with the turnover of people like me.

Personally, I think these new price rises are disgusting: In the current economic climate, everyone is suffering to an extent, yet GW still bumps up prices so their profits stay high, therefore their top brass retain their current pay.

Soon we may get to the point where we buy Forge World more often than GW...


Valk

fething bs.

My thoughts of starting a VC army thoroughly smashed, $5 raise in USD, I mean come on.

I really am just being a baby, but really GW? You charge such bs prices already.

Only upside is beastmen didn't get an increase on any of their stuff.

Edit: Mother...BEASTMEN ARMY BOOK £15.00 £17.50 £11.25 £13.13

Mr. Burning wrote:If GW dropped prices, tonight, by 20% how many people, who wouldn't have ordered, would place an order with GW that instant?

what about a 30% reduction?

Would GW see the upsell it needed to justify a drop to RRP? even over the course of a 12 month trading period?

The thing is GW counts sales by what happens at the tills and what happens on their webstore. Whilst they may keep an ear to the ground only a huge dent in their takings against expected revenues will get them to take notice.

God yes, I've been itching to buy a couple of the new battle wagons but I don't like it enough to justify the price, if it were £25 then yeah I'd buy those two battle wagons and I'd have spent £50 instead of £35.

Similarly, meganobz, I really want meganobz, I've thought about buying them before but put it off hoping they would go plastic.
I still considered buying some though but at £12 I don't even need to think, no way am I paying that.

skrulnik wrote:If they dropped prices, I would be like my sister seeing a shoe sale. Buy, buy, buy!

Not because I need or want, but because it is on sale.

Illogical, but true.

Yes very true, I collect transformers and sales are horrible things as I end up buying figures I didn't want the first time just cos they're cheaper, lol.

Who's up for protesting outside the Nottingham HQ? I drove there for Forgeworlds open day, I'd do it again to campaign for some sense in their pricing.

Gargskull wrote:Who's up for protesting outside the Nottingham HQ? I drove there for Forgeworlds open day, I'd do it again to campaign for some sense in their pricing.

Actually that's not a bad idea, I would be up for some sort of protest.

Valk

TEA PARTY PROTEST AT NOTTINGHAM!!! LOL

Valkyrie wrote:

Gargskull wrote:Who's up for protesting outside the Nottingham HQ? I drove there for Forgeworlds open day, I'd do it again to campaign for some sense in their pricing.

Actually that's not a bad idea, I would be up for some sort of protest.

Valk

"What do we want?"

"Lower prices, better rules!"

Spacemanvic wrote:

Fateweaver wrote:I wasn't arguing there won't be a US price increase.

Just pointing out that Googles currency converter is wrong.

US raising prices again does not effect FW so not really sure what I missed.

The part you posted about the Valk. Dont think the price is going down on that one...

Love the sig btw...

Just going by the currency converter. $55 is apparently what the Brits pay now. US pays $58. It was pointed out earlier that even with the UK price hike the Brits will still pay less than we do for some things, on par with others. Then Mikhaila said he was told a price increase for the US as well on some items.

I just corrected the original post that had the currency conversion wrong.

Thanks about my sig. I have more but the sig size is limited.

Gargskull wrote:

Valkyrie wrote:

Gargskull wrote:Who's up for protesting outside the Nottingham HQ? I drove there for Forgeworlds open day, I'd do it again to campaign for some sense in their pricing.

Actually that's not a bad idea, I would be up for some sort of protest.

Valk

"What do we want?"

"Lower prices, better rules!"

"When do we want it?"

Spacemanvic wrote:TEA PARTY PROTEST AT NOTTINGHAM!!! LOL

As you put 'lol' I am going to asume this was a well meaning joke and not a jibe at stereotypical englishman?

I want higher prices and crappier rules so does that mean I should get into Warmachine?

Hehe.

VikingScott wrote:

Spacemanvic wrote:TEA PARTY PROTEST AT NOTTINGHAM!!! LOL

As you put 'lol' I am going to asume this was a well meaning joke and not a jibe at stereotypical englishman?

No jibe intended, just that Tea Party protests in the US seem to be en vogue, and it looks like GW may get one of their own on the Island.

Let's not involve politics with toy soldiers.

That and I support the US Tea Party and I already get slammed enough in OT over it. LOL.

Viva la GW!!!

@Spacemanvic
Ok then. Sorry for my hasty reaction. I wasn't aware that tea party protests are en vogue in the U.S
Sorry again! Just been getting a lot of today which has made me cranky.

I have a fair amount of disposable income and this has me shaking my head. I'm familiar with supply and demand but you can only attach so much value to a piece of plastic. Besides, I kind of doubt that demand is necessarily high enough to warrant a second raise in as many years.

VikingScott wrote:@Spacemanvic
Ok then. Sorry for my hasty reaction. I wasn't aware that tea party protests are en vogue in the U.S
Sorry again! Just been getting a lot of today which has made me cranky.

Not at all!

To draw a parallel:

The protests are about the disassociation certain citizens (U.S./GW customers) feel regarding the abuse of powers from those in charge that are infringing on their pursuit of happiness without regard for their well being (Constitutional Rights / buying ability of the customer) under the guise of giving them something better in the end. When in actuality, they are being given the same old crap or less of it for more cost.

See the parallel?

Gargskull wrote:

"What do we want?"

"Lower prices, better rules!"

Better rules? they would laugh in our faces.

Howard A Treesong wrote:£22.50 for a box of ten marines. Why do people still buy this stuff at RRP? And a codex for £17.50? It's not even in hardback. LOTR blisters of one foot and one mounted for £16.50?!

I did comment on another thread about GW finances that they would use their current profits as a reason to raise the prices, purely on the basis that if people are still buying their stuff then they're not charging enough. Only a week after that and there's a price rise. Colour me unsurprised. I like GW stuff, but I've bought less and less of it over the years and this is the reason.

LunaHound wrote:Thats quite a large increase.

I wonder what excuses will be given this time -_-
Basically 40% price increase within 3 years?

It's between 10% and 15% on everything. The reasoning can only be greed because I thought their last financial statement was healthy and there hasn't been another surge in "raw materials" which I've always found difficult to believe.

Lets wait for the next White Dwarf to see if they announce this price rise with the advice to go out and 'buy stuff now while the price is lower', because that's what they've done before.

not to defend GW but the oil spill in the gulf has people scared for petrol

I guess I'll need to get a 3rd job because when the DE come out this fall GW is getting lots and lots of my money.

I won't even need to know rules early or even see the models early. Jes on models, Phil on codex. You can't go wrong buying DE this fall (unless you hate DE).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

lord marcus wrote:

Howard A Treesong wrote:£22.50 for a box of ten marines. Why do people still buy this stuff at RRP? And a codex for £17.50? It's not even in hardback. LOTR blisters of one foot and one mounted for £16.50?!

I did comment on another thread about GW finances that they would use their current profits as a reason to raise the prices, purely on the basis that if people are still buying their stuff then they're not charging enough. Only a week after that and there's a price rise. Colour me unsurprised. I like GW stuff, but I've bought less and less of it over the years and this is the reason.

LunaHound wrote:Thats quite a large increase.

I wonder what excuses will be given this time -_-
Basically 40% price increase within 3 years?

It's between 10% and 15% on everything. The reasoning can only be greed because I thought their last financial statement was healthy and there hasn't been another surge in "raw materials" which I've always found difficult to believe.

Lets wait for the next White Dwarf to see if they announce this price rise with the advice to go out and 'buy stuff now while the price is lower', because that's what they've done before.

not to defend GW but the oil spill in the gulf has people scared for petrol

Weird because US market analysts are predicting that gas prices will continue to drop over the summer.

lord marcus wrote:
not to defend GW but the oil spill in the gulf has people scared for petrol

The issue in the gulf will affect fishing, but not petrol. It was only one oil platform out of thousands. Oil platforms around the US are only a drop in the world-wide bucket, so to speak.

EDIT: if the oil prices drop over the summer, that would be the first time in years. Prices always go up in the summer as demand goes up (vacations = more air travel and car travel).

Not necessarily agreeing with the prediction but those guys might be seeing a trend the average joe doesn't.

I'll believe it when I see the pumps reflect the price drop, not a minute before.

Jesus, thats a large increase.

But looking at Dark Sphere's prices, I know where I'll be shopping.

Rome, Greece and GW.... The Greeks invented Sex, the Romans thought about having it with women, then GW decided to screw us.

Sharpasaspoon wrote:Rome, Greece and GW.... The Greeks invented Sex, the Romans thought about having it with women, then GW decided to screw us.

LMFAO - A new Sig Champion.

Youv'e really made my day with that Sharpasaspoon.

skrulnik wrote:Not even 10 years ago, an army would have set you back less than $200.

I actually did a number thing on DakkaDakka about six months ago for WHFB and 40K, and even at a 2.25K army (WHFB) the cheapest I could get was about $250-ish to $300. However, I'll get more into why that's bad (for us today) later. As the prices stand currently in the US, you're at a minimal increase for 40K - maybe $50 outside stuff like books and paints over the last six years. There's less models a kit, but in turn you're no-longer getting stuff through either Bitz Order or Blisters to supplement special weapons (well, usually). This is at a 2K points level, mind. Still, 40K has been hit relatively light in a typical(ish) point level. Well, barring specialist armies like Dread Hordes or IG Armored Companies.

WHFB is where the trouble is at. Specifically: Writing a list up that was meant to be favorable to GW (replaced 20 models with plastic remakes and was overall a small list with only a few purchases) I could save $40 six years ago. Writing up a list that wasn't meant to be favorable, I hit $420 for the modern list... and $280 for the old one. There were no model changes. None. Boxes were relatively unchanged as well, the only exceptions being art covers on a box or three. And there was a solid 50% increase on the army cost. That's only keeping track of what prices we know for certain from the last six years, or an average increase of about 7% a year over the current price (as in year 1 is 7% of 100, year two is 7% of 107, year three 7% of 114.5-ish%, and so on). It's very hard to find other hobbies that consistently make this rise: To compare to video games (a hobby GW is fond of comparing themselves to as a cheaper alternative), it would mean (at a similar rate of growth) that - looking at game prices today of about $60ish dollars - games in 2000 - brand new - should have cost a theoretical $30 brand new without using a "Greatest Hits" system. Though if one wanted to get more accurate, it would be akin to that $30 game - with no change other than repackaging - now costing $60 in a typical store. Not due to rarity or being hard to stock / out of production, but because... er... that repackaging and developer needs a doubling of return. Which, sadly enough, can be compared to the price some GW products (Squigs) have gone in the last six years (or those models being ahead of the curb by a solid 4 years).

tl;dr: If all other forms of entertainment followed the GW business type, we'd see about a 196% change in price (or pretty much a doubling) every ten years. Or, in other words, the best of the best brand new PS3 should have cost - not $600 USD - should have been a solid $70 more expensive (11.67% more) the year of its release and cost $720 by 2008 (then a 20% over its current highest point).

Cheer mate, I try

Fateweaver wrote:Not necessarily agreeing with the prediction but those guys might be seeing a trend the average joe doesn't.

I'll believe it when I see the pumps reflect the price drop, not a minute before.

Prices here dropped .10cents/gallon last week.

Other than a box of the new ork walkers, I haven't had occasion to buy anything from GW for at least a year now.

The insistence on driving their prices up more when it's becoming harder to earn a living is a stupid move, and I think I'm probably reaching the point where I'm done buying GW stuff. I'll play, certainly, since doing anything else'd be a waste of what I have already, but they've managed to demotivate me enough that I'm no longer interested in supporting them.

The shame of it is that I bought 2 tickets to Gamesday a couple months back, and now I'm starting to wonder why I'm going, since I know I'm not really going to be buying anything there. I don't feel as excited as I did back in '08.

10 years ago minimum wage in the US was $5.15.

In another thread a while back (like nearly a year ago) someone did some number crunching comparing a few boxed sets 10 years ago to now and in reality while the prices went up a few dollars on things, the increase in min. wage has actually made it so a person has to work LESS to get the same stuff.

10 years ago a person making min. wage in the US had to work for 6 hours to buy a tactical squad box. Now it only requires 5 hours of work at min. wage to buy that box even though it's $5 higher.

In 1990 you had to work for 13 hours at min. wage to afford a 10 man terminator squad. Today it's the same amount of labor at min. wage for 10 terminators (with the added bonus they look a lot better, are plastic, more customizable and did I mention look a lot better)?

Fateweaver wrote:10 years ago minimum wage in the US was $5.15.

In another thread a while back (like nearly a year ago) someone did some number crunching comparing a few boxed sets 10 years ago to now and in reality while the prices went up a few dollars on things, the increase in min. wage has actually made it so a person has to work LESS to get the same stuff.

10 years ago a person making min. wage in the US had to work for 6 hours to buy a tactical squad box. Now it only requires 5 hours of work at min. wage to buy that box even though it's $5 higher.

In 1990 you had to work for 13 hours at min. wage to afford a 10 man terminator squad. Today it's the same amount of labor at min. wage for 10 terminators (with the added bonus they look a lot better, are plastic, more customizable and did I mention look a lot better)?

Surprisingly enough, most people don't hold jobs just to buy little plastic men. While the relative cost of GW product to income received might have tilted in a slightly (and really, let's be honest, slightly) more favorable direction, that doesn't mean that the things people need to eat and live have done the same.

Apologies
have only just discovered the thread and there are still 58 pages to go through!

any way

because they are the best minatures in the world

hehe very funny
I lol'd and I can say that cos I'm down with the kids.

jamsessionein wrote:

Fateweaver wrote:10 years ago minimum wage in the US was $5.15.

In another thread a while back (like nearly a year ago) someone did some number crunching comparing a few boxed sets 10 years ago to now and in reality while the prices went up a few dollars on things, the increase in min. wage has actually made it so a person has to work LESS to get the same stuff.

10 years ago a person making min. wage in the US had to work for 6 hours to buy a tactical squad box. Now it only requires 5 hours of work at min. wage to buy that box even though it's $5 higher.

In 1990 you had to work for 13 hours at min. wage to afford a 10 man terminator squad. Today it's the same amount of labor at min. wage for 10 terminators (with the added bonus they look a lot better, are plastic, more customizable and did I mention look a lot better)?

Surprisingly enough, most people don't hold jobs just to buy little plastic men. While the relative cost of GW product to income received might have tilted in a slightly (and really, let's be honest, slightly) more favorable direction, that doesn't mean that the things people need to eat and live have done the same.

True but GW price rise is actually about par for the course (and some things did go way up...3 hours to earn a dreadnaught in 1990 vs 6 hours now; then again the 1990 dread was hideous and metal so to me it's a fair trade off) but can't really say GW price rises are all that unreasonable in the grand scheme of things. No company I'm aware of has been LOWERING their prices over the past 25 years so GW is just doing what every other share-held company in the world does, it's just that nerds with very little or no social life are more vocal than say the average consumer who consumes a case of Mt. Dew daily.

Computer companies have been lowering their prices in real and relative terms in the past 25 years.

Fateweaver wrote:In another thread a while back (like nearly a year ago) someone did some number crunching comparing a few boxed sets 10 years ago to now and in reality while the prices went up a few dollars on things, the increase in min. wage has actually made it so a person has to work LESS to get the same stuff.

Could someone re-crunch those numbers. I'm a dreadful sceptic these days.

Only because technologies get cheaper as they obsolete.

Plastic tech is dictated a lot by oil prices, and the fact that the tech GW uses wouldn't change often enough to obsolete older tech.

Take video cards. The newest, most high end card on the market almost always starts higher than anything else. 1 reason is due to gouging those who HAVE to be on top but the other is that the 9-12 months since the old the tech has changed drastically enough that until supply and demand warrant it the new cards price will always be higher to manufacture than most older tech. Once supply picks up prices fall.

GW won't ever LOWER prices (at least not in the sense of computer tech) because their tech isn't actually getting cheaper to use. Computers are the exception, not the norm.

PC games aren't getting cheaper even though over the past 10 years the actual media (cd's/dvd's) are getting cheaper to produce.

If everyone used PC's as an example then PS3 games would be around $10 a piece as compared to $60 when the PS3 first came out; Xbox games would be damn close to free; the WII itself would be practically free. Not to mention M$ and Sony are actually LOSING money on every individual unit they sell but they have large enough pockets and make other goods that make them money so it balances out.

GW is doing what is the norm, not the exception. PC tech is the exception and one shouldn't base arguments on the exception.

Some comments:

1.) Every year at least once, all GW prices all over the world are raised by 15-25%. This includes USA. This year will not be different.
2.) Every year, sales drop 15-25% all over the world, resulting in a steady drop in total revenue for at least 5 years.
3.) Every year, GW thinks that raising prices again 15-25% will stop that trend, even if common sense and experts say otherwise.
4.) Every year, GW's strategy fails to achieve its goal, losing more customers and losing more jobs.

This is bad for GW, bad for the hobby and bad for the shrinking community. Sadly, all GW business decisions are made with a d6, with 4 sides "raise prices", one side "fire staff", one side "release new Space Marines". Sadly, GW management is allowed to fail every year and to artificially lower profits by disregaring even basic business common sense. No advertising, no marketing, high hurdles for beginners getting higher every year (all introductory products included in every price hike). Even perfect introductory games are kept secret until the end, then sold out in a week (Space Hulk). Price policy doesn't match the so called main target group: teens (teens don't have money for Porsches ). Veterans OTOH are not welcome in GW stores.

It is really sad that the mismanagement is not punished by stock holders. So expect to see many more years with decreasing sales, decreasing revenue and decreasing customer numbers.

A lot of commodities are cheaper in real and relative terms in the past 100 years.

This makes me a sad panda.

I've bought 1 paint pot from my local GW in the last 16 months because I can buy anything online from the UK for 45% cheaper.
I'm currently waiting on about 200 pounds worth of product to come through at the moment for one of my quarter yearly big buys.
Once these rises hit Australia which has a very strong dollar at the moment, even fewer people will be buying in the shops.

As I've said for the last 10 years.
I keep spending the same amount, they just sell less and less product.

George Spiggott wrote:

Fateweaver wrote:In another thread a while back (like nearly a year ago) someone did some number crunching comparing a few boxed sets 10 years ago to now and in reality while the prices went up a few dollars on things, the increase in min. wage has actually made it so a person has to work LESS to get the same stuff.

Could someone re-crunch those numbers. I'm a dreadful sceptic these days.

I did.

In 2000 a 10 man ALL metal tactical box was $30.

In 2k10 an ALL plastic 10 man tactical box is $35.

Min. wage in 2000. $5.15 = 5.8 hours of labor
Min. wage now. $7.25 (for most states, some states are as high as $8.50). Using 7.25 we need to work 4.8 hours (in WA state that drops to 4.1 hours).

Less labor involved to afford it, all plastic and better looking minis with more options. I know my more favored scenario.

In 2000 a box of 5 SoB's was $25. 9.6 hours at fed. min. wage to buy 2 boxes.

In 2k9 a box of 10 SoB's is $41. 5.7 hours at Fed. min wage.

So, in those 2 instances (and more) GW prices technically have actually come DOWN in relation to 10 years ago.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kroothawk wrote:Some comments:

1.) Every year at least once, all GW prices all over the world are raised by 15-25%. This includes USA. This year will not be different.
2.) Every year, sales drop 15-25% all over the world, resulting in a steady drop in total revenue for at least 5 years.
3.) Every year, GW thinks that raising prices again 15-25% will stop that trend, even if common sense and experts say otherwise.
4.) Every year, GW's strategy fails to achieve its goal, losing more customers and losing more jobs.

This is bad for GW, bad for the hobby and bad for the shrinking community. Sadly, all GW business decisions are made with a d6, with 4 sides "raise prices", one side "fire staff", one side "release new Space Marines". Sadly, GW management is allowed to fail every year and to artificially lower profits by disregaring even basic business common sense. No advertising, no marketing, high hurdles for beginners getting higher every year (all introductory products included in every price hike). Even perfect introductory games are kept secret until the end, then sold out in a week (Space Hulk). Price policy doesn't match the so called main target group: teens (teens don't have money for Porsches ). Veterans OTOH are not welcome in GW stores.

It is really sad that the mismanagement is not punished by stock holders. So expect to see many more years with decreasing sales, decreasing revenue and decreasing customer numbers.

The latest financial report disputes your claim that GW revenue has dropped. In fact 2k9 actually saw GW's revenue INCREASE for the first time in a decade.

GW will eventually raise prices so much they do see a very large decrease in revenue but as long as revenue stays fairly the same year after year or even increases they'll keep raising prices because they can.

Coke and Pepsi will keep raising prices on soft drinks because people will keep buying and buying. It would take many years and a very large increase in prices for Pepsi and Coke to start losing money.

25% is a little exaggerated don't you think?

Valkyrie wrote:Soon we may get to the point where we buy Forge World more often than GW...

Actually, there was a period when many models on the FW site were cheaper than their GW counterparts.

Namely BFG stuff, among others but this does bring the increased gouging into perspective.

Apologies if this has been posted already,

GW's trading latest, posted by reds8n in news and rumours.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/293092.page

Posted the same day as this topic started.

Mookie.

@Fateweaver: That's some lovely maths there but could you please compare like for like i.e. Plastic Space Marine Tactical Squad in 2000 vs. 2010 (post 2010 rise). Similarly SoB aren't on the current price rise list so they're not really suitable for comparison. Ditto for the minimum wage, like for like please.

I did. What about my post is confusing you George?

The tacticals in 2000 were metal, not plastic.

The box has increased a whopping $5 USD in 10 years while minimum wage in the US has risen $2.10 cents on average.

You had to work MORE hours 10 years ago in the US to buy the same item than you do now, even though the box price has gone up $5, is plastic instead of metal and the minis look a hell of a lot better.

Not sure what the UK price rise will be this year so I can't do the POST 2k10 price increase. As of today it's more affordable to buy 10 Tacticals or 10 SoB's than it was 10 years ago.

I guess I'm not following why you are confused with my post.

You are incorrect fateweaver, by 1999 they had already switched over to the plastic tacticals, I recall quite vividly, prior to that they were hybrids but were phased out well before 2000.

Just thought I'd chime in, as I would remember the first boxed set I ever bought.

skrulnik wrote:One thing I realized recently. I went to buy a 12pack of Pepsi.
The price was just shy of $5. Not too long ago, they were still around $3.50.
Many other food/drink items have seen similar increases.

Difference is: I can buy that pepsi at Walmart, Shoprite, Grand union and many other places, and while walmart has it for $5 for a case of 24, I can get 3 12 packs at supermarkets at various times for $10, with a price advantage card.

Can you do that with your GW? Sure prices increase, but with enough looking, I can get a really good deal.

Fateweaver wrote:I did. What about my post is confusing you George?

The tacticals in 2000 were metal, not plastic.

Apart from the ones that were released with 40k 3rd edition in 1998. They were £10 or £12 I'm not sure what that was in $$.

Fateweaver wrote:Not sure what the UK price rise will be this year so I can't do the POST 2k10 price increase.

It's in a link in the first post of this thread!

carmachu wrote:

skrulnik wrote:One thing I realized recently. I went to buy a 12pack of Pepsi.
The price was just shy of $5. Not too long ago, they were still around $3.50.
Many other food/drink items have seen similar increases.

Difference is: I can buy that pepsi at Walmart, Shoprite, Grand union and many other places, and while walmart has it for $5 for a case of 24, I can get 3 12 packs at supermarkets at various times for $10, with a price advantage card.

Can you do that with your GW? Sure prices increase, but with enough looking, I can get a really good deal.

I think it was mentioned earlier in this topic, but eventually the prices will be high enough to where the price breaks we get now will be negligable.

For example we can get maybe a tactical for 30$ with a discount, but when you apply the discount later in the next year the price will be 35$ even with it applied.

We can't win unless we stick it to the man.

Not to sound like a broken record but....

Catachans (and to a lesser extent, Cadians). I did the maths earlier in the thread. But,


In short, they've tripled the prices in the last 10 years for the exact same models.

Also, High Elf Swordmasters of Hoethe. They used to be 3 for £5 and now, for the exact same models, it's 5 for £15.

I just can't justify this at all. Fortunately, I don't plan on buying new stuff any time soon.

radiohazard wrote:Jesus, thats a large increase.

But looking at Dark Sphere's prices, I know where I'll be shopping.

Wait, Dark Sphere has a store and they are the ONLY people posting about this?

Something smells fishy here...

Fateweaver wrote:I did. What about my post is confusing you George?

The tacticals in 2000 were metal, not plastic.

The box has increased a whopping $5 USD in 10 years while minimum wage in the US has risen $2.10 cents on average.

You had to work MORE hours 10 years ago in the US to buy the same item than you do now, even though the box price has gone up $5, is plastic instead of metal and the minis look a hell of a lot better.

Not sure what the UK price rise will be this year so I can't do the POST 2k10 price increase. As of today it's more affordable to buy 10 Tacticals or 10 SoB's than it was 10 years ago.

I guess I'm not following why you are confused with my post.

Your argument fails.
While your math may be spot on, the economics of this Country(USA, thats where you are posting from) has changed over the last 10 years, mainly an increase in unemployment.
Doesn't matter how much the more the average min.wage is if people are not working
I will say that if you are not working that buying little toy soldiers is not high on the "Needs" list.

hyperviper6 wrote:

mikhaila wrote:I have been told by US Trade Sales that yes, GW US will be raising prices on June 1st. They don't have a comprehensive list for me yet, and I may not get it for a week. I am expecting a price increase similar to what the UK is getting. Wait and see, but this is not just in the UK by any means.

So your telling me that Uk's prices are being raised to match the USA prices, then the USA prices are getting raised over the UK's again.

If anyone in the UK thinks that the price increase is to much, be glad your not in the USA.

Hmm, not really telling you anything more than I called GW, and confirmed there was a price increase coming on June 1st. I expect that the overall increase will be similar to the increase we see coming in the UK. The other bitz are all you talking, not me.)

Dravenguild wrote:It does upset me that independent retailers and LGS ultimately pay for this, but I'll do my damn best to support mine, despite only a discount on 30$ or more. I know what you mean Carmachu the sales tax in my town is like 10% now and no chance of killing it with any amount of purchase

I guess I should elaborate that I go to school so I live in two different places

The old store, when ran by the old guy 15 years ago would do that when I dropped a large amount at once, especially since I was a regular. I didnt ask, and didnt expect it, so it was a nice addition.

Nowadays while I like the warstore, I really dont want to pay sales tax, so they dont get my business. It pretty much eats any discount I would get if I bought there. On anything. Regular FLGS? They never get anything anymore.

Fateweaver wrote:10 years ago minimum wage in the US was $5.15.

In another thread a while back (like nearly a year ago) someone did some number crunching comparing a few boxed sets 10 years ago to now and in reality while the prices went up a few dollars on things, the increase in min. wage has actually made it so a person has to work LESS to get the same stuff.

10 years ago a person making min. wage in the US had to work for 6 hours to buy a tactical squad box. Now it only requires 5 hours of work at min. wage to buy that box even though it's $5 higher.

In 1990 you had to work for 13 hours at min. wage to afford a 10 man terminator squad. Today it's the same amount of labor at min. wage for 10 terminators (with the added bonus they look a lot better, are plastic, more customizable and did I mention look a lot better)?

There used to be 20 cadians in that box, not 10. So you get half the quantity for more coin.

Rikashi wrote:I will say that if you are not working that buying little toy soldiers is not high on the "Needs" list.

Even if you are working, its likely not high on the list.

This is where I am seeing the GW bean counters failing to recognize the volatility of the economy. If they had the foresight to see that sales would go up or atleast maintain a constant level if they refrained from increasing prices during the economic woes much of the world is now facing, they would likely have made more profit if from nothing else than brand loyalty.

They have relied on the precedent set during the great depression that forms of egress (entertainment specifically like movies) actually profited during times of economic hardship. But the prices for those forms of egress didn't increase during that time. Where as GW have taken every opportunity they could to increase prices and by doing so have reduce their gross sales margin.

Price hikes are always going to happen. But a more intelligent approach is merited as opposed to "we are about to make lots of money on our product from the circular licensing of our IP and the free advertising of people licensing from us" mentality.

You think the prices are crazy right now?

Wait until that 40K and Hobbit movie come out along with that 40K online game. You're gonna wish the prices are as we see them in the 2010 price adjustment list.

Mark my words.

There is an awesome place here in the San Fernando Valley called Brookhurst hobbies, probably the last honest LGS that offers their GW products 20% off, I don't know what I would do without them.

I only got to go there twice but it's a life saver.

Fateweaver wrote:

The latest financial report disputes your claim that GW revenue has dropped. In fact 2k9 actually saw GW's revenue INCREASE for the first time in a decade.

GW will eventually raise prices so much they do see a very large decrease in revenue but as long as revenue stays fairly the same year after year or even increases they'll keep raising prices because they can.

Coke and Pepsi will keep raising prices on soft drinks because people will keep buying and buying. It would take many years and a very large increase in prices for Pepsi and Coke to start losing money.

25% is a little exaggerated don't you think?

Not that I don't agree with you to some extent; however, a good deal of that revenue "increase" this past year was due to closing stores and other corporate financial fandangling which looks good on paper but just means it's a smaller company. That's how many corporations have shown a profit in the past 2 quarters here (Citibank is one of them), they sold off a good deal of held assets which resulted in "revenue" which then showed a positive line on the ledger. What you should do is ask them to produce a breakdown of actual sales and compare the sales volume and growth with respective quarters in previous years; this will allow you to see the actual picture, not the one that the company bean counters want investors to see.

From their corporate statement dated May 5:
"The Group's performance in the second half of the year to date has been somewhat better than the Board's expectations, with regard in particular to the gross margin and the continuing firm control of costs."

I've boled the relevant corporate speak.

From their January 2010 interim report: http://investor.games-workshop.com/downloads/results/results2010/2009-10_FinalHalfYearReport.pdf
"Overheads have been kept under tight control and we continue our programme of addressing unprofitable stores, reducing staffing and relocating to lower rent locations when appropriate."

As an investor (former), I like to see these things but it does blur actual revenue figures.

What they have done, and others may have already mentioned this, is to streamline their facilities and production which reduces operating costs to the extent that they show a profit. Look at the interim report on page 3 (I believe) and you'll see a breakdown. The sales hasn't actually improved all the much (projected of course) over 2009. So what you are seeing is a temporary jump in profit brought about by reduction in facilities/staff and a steamlining of process. It's temporary as you won't see it this time next year as the streamlining is completed (automated stocking process, move of manufacturing to china, etc).

That's why I sold my stock; you'll find that the majority holders are funds (and tom kirby who owns almost 2million shares). The funds will sell as soon as it become apparent that the company is showing a decline in profits.

This is all my opinion based upon what I've read from the company.