http://whiskey40k.blogspot.com/2011/08/off-to-nova-live-feed-link-repost.html

After inaugurating off live game coverage of a 40k GT last year, the NOVA is partnering with 11th Company and taking some lessons learned from the IC podcast's improvements to run full on live podcasting all weekend long at the NOVA.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/the-11th-company

It'll be live on Thursday evening starting around 4 or 6, all day Friday covering the Invitational, and all day Sat and Sun covering the Open GT proper. Although I can't say who his opponent is, randomization of the first round will have Tony Kopach against his random first round opponent on Table 1 for Friday's Invitational, starting at 8AM US EST. Table 1 will always be "under cam" ... and players will have lapel mics and pro mastering from the 11th Co Podcast.

We also have the capacity to "draw" on screenshots and live feed "Madden" style and will be using it liberally, to help viewers understand what's going on a little better.

TUne in, and spread the link!

Madden and 40k in the same statement...amazing!

Now if we could get Madden to do the commentary I think we could get this stuff on ESPN like the World Series of Poker...

Nice, can't wait to see some of the games.

I would think lapel mics might be a bad idea.

Ooh, the Invitational is going to be on live stream?? Guess I better get back to painting my models

I will be watching so I can see the 11th Company lay a beating on 40K Radio.

I can only hope I dont get my ass whooped while on live stream
Also...Whisky match someone? I might have time for a whisky match, granted I am only 20.

I think this is a great idea and I look forward to checking in on the various games of the weekend.

If I get miked up I will just be muttering the whole game about how cheesy my opponent's army is.

I love this idea! I hope it works out well in practice.

Good luck with the event! I am bummed I can't make it this year, but I am looking forward to seeing the results!

I'm pretty bummed out too. I was supposed to be in the invitational but finaces dictate no cross country trips for 40K this year :( I too will be watching the live brodcast. And give em hell for the west coast Blackmore (but I bet if you get a mic you'll be telling everyone its not about winning even though your mopping up )

MVBrandt wrote:
We also have the capacity to "draw" on screenshots and live feed "Madden" style and will be using it liberally, to help viewers understand what's going on a little better.

TUne in, and spread the link!

Just make sure to be on a 5 second delay to avoid any wardrobe malfunctions. While I doubt we'll see any nipple, you might inadvertantly catch some gamer plumber butt during the later movement phases. Sounds like a cool idea other than that!

I am looking forward to seeing the live stream! Good luck to the Imperial Vox Cast!

Watching it now... I can't wait to be there soon!

Awesome stuff. Any worries about the Hurricane?

I'm deaming this weekend a hurrication

Will there be live feed of the hurricane outside?

Man, I was gonna be pantsless this whole tournament too....damn my bad luck on not being able to go.....

Watching now.

I reluctantly gave up going to the Nova Open for my 10-year high school reunion, held near the coast.

There's a hurricane coming that as of a few hours ago just rescheduled my reunion for September...

If this is karma, I must have done something wrong.

The feed was a good time tonight. Definitely a much better setup than last year; the camera over the table is a great improvement. The sound was largely good (and the guys adjusted when necessary thanks to viewer feedback), and the content fun.

Mannahnin wrote:The feed was a good time tonight. Definitely a much better setup than last year; the camera over the table is a great improvement. The sound was largely good (and the guys adjusted when necessary thanks to viewer feedback), and the content fun.

It was also nice having you there to comment on the games in progress

Is there some place to see the pairings of the first round of the invitationnal?

First round of the Invitational was really good. Brad Nichols vs Tony Kopach.

So who won?

Brad Nichols won against Tonys Space Wolves. He is now on table 1 Round 2 vs Kurt Clauss
Brad is using Deathwing. Kurt is using Daemons.

Thanks for the update. Can't watch the feed at work.

I was really pulling for Tony. It is really amazing to watch Tony play.

Tony did really good in 1st round. It was a close match and he almost had it too. His deployment against deathwing really did mess him up a bit.

Dash beat Stelek in round #1. What's going on at table #1 now?

Second round Table 1. Brad Nichols Deathwing lost To Kurt Clauss Daemons.

Third Round Table 1 Kurt Clauss Daemons vs Marc Tomlinson Eldar

Yikes! Daemons seem to be some show stoppers this year.

Its a 5 round invitational. He got good match ups in the first 2 rounds against jump pack blood angels and deathwing. Right now if he beats eldar will see how he does on round 4 against the top players.

Is there always a judge on table 1? At one point I saw one head and three hands come out of the edges of the screen to determine scatter, lol. It reminded me of the Nationwide commercial when the guy is doing the hand shadow puppets.

There is actually a judge in each of all the 16 tables. 16 judges in total.

Is there a site that has the overall round results so far?

I'm surprised the judge let the Eldar player redo multiple moves on turn 5.

Game just finished, daemons won on secondary (kill points) after a tie on table quarters.

grrr

Wow I thought mechdar had that one.

Very cool guys! Been watching a bit of the live feed and most of Nichols vs Klauss. Great stuff.

Are most people who are playing on here? If so can you post up a few forum names?

Poor daemon player up against warp quake Grey Knights.

Mat Ward. You suck.

Anybody got the Army list for Tony Kopach, Brad Nichols, Kurt Clauss and Marc Tominson?

Reecius wrote:Poor daemon player up against warp quake Grey Knights.

Mat Ward. You suck.

You forgot its also being played by Yermom who knows how deamons play and is a great player himself.

Yeah, I caught that.

Plus, the Daemon player didn't get his preferred wave, and Fateweaver still isn't on the table. This probably won't be much of a game.

thehod wrote:

Reecius wrote:Poor daemon player up against warp quake Grey Knights.

Mat Ward. You suck.

You forgot its also being played by Yermom who knows how deamons play and is a great player himself.

While I admire the sentiment, knowing how to play daemons against a player who knows how to play warp quake isn't that useful. If you can't get your models on the table, how are you supposed to use them?

Yermon is playing the Grey Knights. He also plays Daemons. thehod was saying it is even more of a ridiculous advantage.

Again, Mat Ward, you suck. You really, really suck at your job.

He ruined Fantasy and he's throwing 40K out of balance. The guy sucks, hard.

I feel bad for the Demons player, but why in the name of anything but fluff do you bring demons to an event like this?

Before Grey Knights, Daemons were a tournament winning army. Fatecrusher is a top tier list, it's only weaknesses being to fast, high rate of fire armies like Mechdar and Mech Deldar.

Grey Knights are just stupid.

olympia wrote:I feel bad for the Demons player, but why in the name of anything but fluff do you bring demons to an event like this?

This. Sure you can do great but one game of bad rolls and no amount of good playing can catchyou up in a tourny with that many good players.

Can someone translate the real names to some of the forum names? I have no idea who Bob, Rick, and Jane are...

Grimgob wrote:

olympia wrote:I feel bad for the Demons player, but why in the name of anything but fluff do you bring demons to an event like this?

This. Sure you can do great but one game of bad rolls and no amount of good playing can catchyou up in a tourny with that many good players.

Yes, sadly demons struggle against more than just GK. It was an enjoyable game to watch though and the Demons player certainly impressed me as a stand-up type of guy.

The only familiar names on table one today were Reigning Nova Champion from last year Tony with his Space wolves who lost the first round. And Yermom (Nick Nanavati) who crushed the Daemons with his Grey Knights. Yermom is 4-0 and will play the last round on Table one which is the only table being recorded.

Does anybody know who the other player is for the final? They said it could be IG or SW but didn't say what players. I'm guessing by now though that game has finished.

morgendonner wrote:Does anybody know who the other player is for the final? They said it could be IG or SW but didn't say what players. I'm guessing by now though that game has finished.

Last round is 7pm tonight.

Right, but who is the other player in it against Yermom's GK?

They havent announced the final match yet. They are on break and wont be back til 7pm est. So at the moment we dont know who.

Hm, well it's a swiss style tournament right? So it has to be whoever won the other 4-0 table.

It is looking like last matchup will be two titan codices: GK vs Space Puppies

Reecius wrote:Yermon is playing the Grey Knights. He also plays Daemons. thehod was saying it is even more of a ridiculous advantage.

Again, Mat Ward, you suck. You really, really suck at your job.

He ruined Fantasy and he's throwing 40K out of balance. The guy sucks, hard.

Matt Ward makes 40k like this:

Nick Nanavati Grey Knights vs Alan Aleong Space Wolves Final Round

olympia wrote:I feel bad for the Demons player, but why in the name of anything but fluff do you bring demons to an event like this?

Sooooo... you should only play top tier armies? Just Wolves, GK, IG, DEldar, Angels? Nothing else? That's probably the most ridiculous post I've read today.

Walls wrote:

olympia wrote:I feel bad for the Demons player, but why in the name of anything but fluff do you bring demons to an event like this?

Sooooo... you should only play top tier armies? Just Wolves, GK, IG, DEldar, Angels? Nothing else? That's probably the most ridiculous post I've read today.

If you want to take 1st and have a better chance to win all 5 rounds in a tournament like this yes. Yes you do!

Julnlecs wrote:

Walls wrote:

olympia wrote:I feel bad for the Demons player, but why in the name of anything but fluff do you bring demons to an event like this?

Sooooo... you should only play top tier armies? Just Wolves, GK, IG, DEldar, Angels? Nothing else? That's probably the most ridiculous post I've read today.

If you want to take 1st and have a better chance to win all 5 rounds in a tournament like this yes. Yes you do!

Actually no he got a bad match up and worse bad rolls all around. If he played anything but Purfier GKs he would of had a chance to win all 5 games no problem. Sometimes going against meta reaps rewards.

This game looked over at setup.

tastytaste wrote:

Julnlecs wrote:

Walls wrote:

olympia wrote:I feel bad for the Demons player, but why in the name of anything but fluff do you bring demons to an event like this?

Sooooo... you should only play top tier armies? Just Wolves, GK, IG, DEldar, Angels? Nothing else? That's probably the most ridiculous post I've read today.

If you want to take 1st and have a better chance to win all 5 rounds in a tournament like this yes. Yes you do!

Actually no he got a bad match up and worse bad rolls all around. If he played anything but Purfier GKs he would of had a chance to win all 5 games no problem. Sometimes going against meta reaps rewards.

The daemons player didnt lose against Purifier Gks. He lost against Razor and Rhino Spam with Strike Squads. He barely won against a really bad Eldar list. The daemon player was a good guy and expected to lose against Gks.

With the right player, deamon armies are very good. He did a great job with the army. But also in tournaments, there is a bit of luck concerning match ups. Player skill helps but it can only go so far.

Seems like Nick's GK's are beating Aaron's SW's in the final game.

Reecius wrote:Yeah, I caught that.

Plus, the Daemon player didn't get his preferred wave, and Fateweaver still isn't on the table. This probably won't be much of a game.

Reminds me of this game I had just recently with my Interceptor GK's against daemons. He didn't get his prefered wave, his guys trickled in and Fateweaver came in on Turn 3 all by himself without any support. I didn't even use Warp Quake at all and gave him 1st turn.

Foot-GK's can be quite brutal against daemons.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Walls wrote:

olympia wrote:I feel bad for the Demons player, but why in the name of anything but fluff do you bring demons to an event like this?

Sooooo... you should only play top tier armies? Just Wolves, GK, IG, DEldar, Angels? Nothing else? That's probably the most ridiculous post I've read today.

No he's saying that in a competitive tournament (that is also w/l/d)that only includes winners from big events around the nation, why would you bring an army that could randomly loose to no fault or skill of the player playing it. In a GT situation its better but still random. And remember theys playin for the big bucks here son!

Well, good job to Yermon. Enjoy that $1,000, kid!

Grey Knights are too good. One game, or one tournament doesn't prove anything, but at first glance at that codex it was clear to me it was overpowered.

So, once again, Mat Ward, you suck. Thanks for fething the balance of 40K up.

Psy Dreads and cannons certainly looked good. At setup though, I'm not sure if his opponent had much of a chance or plan--lining up TWC and charging into a meat grinder/Coteaz Sanct--just to eat a rhino...

Yermom takes the Invitational with Grey Knights!!

My mom was no where near that tournament, I swear!
(besides she plays Chaos)

That was a bit one-sided. Yeah, the TWC took a bunch of wounds early, then didn't deal enough damage before Nick finished them off.

Congrats to Nick!

Congrats Nick

On another note the Space Wolves player took second overall.

Grimgob wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:

Walls wrote:

olympia wrote:I feel bad for the Demons player, but why in the name of anything but fluff do you bring demons to an event like this?

Sooooo... you should only play top tier armies? Just Wolves, GK, IG, DEldar, Angels? Nothing else? That's probably the most ridiculous post I've read today.

No he's saying that in a competitive tournament (that is also w/l/d)that only includes winners from big events around the nation, why would you bring an army that could randomly loose to no fault or skill of the player playing it. In a GT situation its better but still random. And remember theys playin for the big bucks here son!

Big bucks? In a Warhammer event? What was the top prize?

I also laugh/scoff at someone calling me son when they could probably be mine.

$1000 for the Invitational.

Walls wrote:

Grimgob wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:

Walls wrote:

olympia wrote:I feel bad for the Demons player, but why in the name of anything but fluff do you bring demons to an event like this?

Sooooo... you should only play top tier armies? Just Wolves, GK, IG, DEldar, Angels? Nothing else? That's probably the most ridiculous post I've read today.

No he's saying that in a competitive tournament (that is also w/l/d)that only includes winners from big events around the nation, why would you bring an army that could randomly loose to no fault or skill of the player playing it. In a GT situation its better but still random. And remember theys playin for the big bucks here son!

Big bucks? In a Warhammer event? What was the top prize?

I also laugh/scoff at someone calling me son when they could probably be mine.

$1000 is good money for a single day tourney. NOVA has set the standard.

Really dig the live feed BTW.

I stand corrected. 1k is pretty darned good.

@Walls
Calling someone son is a slang term here that has nothing to do with the relative ages of the people. It's like saying dude almost, these days.

I lost to Alex Fenell in the first round when he only failed one out of a ton of 3+ inv saves, and a paladin squad took a wound from a thunder hammer and I failed my save lossing combat by one and then rolling an 11 for moral so that Drago and his paladin friends get walked off of the table.

I won my next three games and then went up against Tony K's space wolves when I charged 2 grey hunter squads with paladins and he destroyed me.

Hope you do better tommorow Blackmore. Was anyone representing Orks? Anyone know how Hulksmash did with his Nids?

@walls, Just trying to be funny so dont get upset pops but with a thousand bucks on the line deamons have a pretty random element involved (he did kick soome ass though).

Great to hear my buddy Dash took the win over the Space Wolfs, great game to watch. No orcs have made a showing in the tourney, but on the open tables there were a few, only 3 IG armies wich was strange. I played on the open tables and did well thursday 3 wins, 1 loss to a mod Rat IG army (nice looking though). Dash got the big whiskey bottle and was very happy, I swilled my beer in peace after buying a squad of much needed 5 Raptors and a 10 Plague marine. Now I am happy painting them

Do they do best painting, best sports? Who won if so? Pics? With what armies?

Isn't this the tournament that Dash was supposed to be playing a Dakka member for what was, apparently, a large sum of money which was undisclosed, based on the request of the other guy?

If so, what happened to THAT match? I'm certain it wasn't against Stelek.

Eric

Hey guys,
Kurt Clauss here, the daemon player from the NOVA Invitaional. I just got home, will not be playing in the NOVA GT sadly due to school.
If you guys want me to answer any questions I will do my best to do. Thanks for the scattered compliments/bashes. All welcome

Yes I consciously took my daemons, I am most familliar with them and as reecius stated. I am only afraid of 3 armies. Dark eldar, mechdar, and strike spam. Otherwise I can win.

As you all saw, and you discussed, I played on table 2 first round against a blood angel jump force(that were counts as, they were SoB, very nice models). I ended up tabling him, rough game for him.

Next Game as you saw on table 1 , I played Brads Deathwing, not a good match up for him. With my preferred wave I was able to bowl him over and kite him with plaguebearers hilariously. Ended up tabling him also.

3rd game you all saw again on table 1. Played Marc Tomlinson mix of footdar and mechdar. Very tight game, made 1-2 mistakes I regret, but I got the win on secondary which led to my downfall against Nick. Tight game against Eldar, won secondary/tertiary.

4th game was against Nicks army, he rolled a 4 for first turn, I roll a 3. Uphill battle, he gets 3/4 warpquakes off. I get the wrong wave, attempt to overload a flank out of desperation. Doesnt work. He shoots in the khorne prince down. Missed 5/6 saves on him, all armor. Then slowly kill whatever was on the board and fateweaver came in alone since crushers mishapped, then bloodthirster came in alone. Not much else I could have done, hopefully it wasnt too boring to watch. (Also all the smack talk is in jest, nick is a friend and a real good guy who I always enjoy playing).

Last game got mass mech IG with absurd amount of firepower, didn't really care. My painting sucks, just tried to have some fun. It took a very very long time for his turns to occur sadly...I ended up losing that game and getting beat quite solidly.
Ended with 3-2

If you guys want my list or anyone elses list I can give a pretty good estimation of anyone I played or saw play. Overall was a great event, smoothly ran, a judge at each table. Was a great time..Just wish i got the Space wolves instead of nick in round 4.

I want to thank Mike and the his team for doing all the work for this tournament, it is a great even that is run very well and with an intelligent staff, my hat is off to him and his crew.

Also, if people actually want battle reports..I might do them...

Dash asked me to post this information for you guys:

Dash crushed Stelek in their Whiskey challenge, taking the primary, secondary and tertiary objectives.

The high stakes $$$ challenege didn't happen because the guy who was meant to play Dash backed out and chose not to play.

Dash played Stelek round one and beat him.

He played Rich his second round and won.

He played Rick Puig his third round who apparently was not very pleasant. He apparently had 3/3 negative sports marks and was pulling some really lame/cheaty moves on Dash, according to Dash. This is where Dash started to drink. Heavily.

Dash Played Alex Fennel 4th round and won.

He would have played Mark Fenek round 5, but got too hammered and had to be escorted to his room, where he passed out and just woke up to tell the tale.

So that's the word from Dash, he wanted you guys to know how he did.

So Dash went undefeated, and won a hangover!

Hahaha, he lost his third round game, and his 5th because he got disqualified due to being too drunk.

He did win that hangover, though!

Any word on how Hulk did?

Reecius wrote:Dash asked me to post this information for you guys:

Dash crushed Stelek in their Whiskey challenge, taking the primary, secondary and tertiary objectives.

The high stakes $$$ challenege didn't happen because the guy who was meant to play Dash backed out and chose not to play.

Dash played Stelek round one and beat him.

He played Rich his second round and won.

He played Rick Puig his third round who apparently was not very pleasant. He apparently had 3/3 negative sports marks and was pulling some really lame/cheaty moves on Dash, according to Dash. This is where Dash started to drink. Heavily.

Dash Played Alex Fennel 4th round and won.

He would have played Mark Fenek round 5, but got too hammered and had to be escorted to his room, where he passed out and just woke up to tell the tale.

So that's the word from Dash, he wanted you guys to know how he did.

Someone said there was a referee at every table. Stay classy Dash!

I believe Hulksmash lost his first round and lost the 4th round against Stelek. Guessing he went 3-2

Reecius wrote:Dash asked me to post this information for you guys:

Dash crushed Stelek in their Whiskey challenge, taking the primary, secondary and tertiary objectives.

The high stakes $$$ challenege didn't happen because the guy who was meant to play Dash backed out and chose not to play.

Dash played Stelek round one and beat him.

He played Rich his second round and won.

He played Rick Puig his third round who apparently was not very pleasant. He apparently had 3/3 negative sports marks and was pulling some really lame/cheaty moves on Dash, according to Dash. This is where Dash started to drink. Heavily.

Dash Played Alex Fennel 4th round and won.

He would have played Mark Fenek round 5, but got too hammered and had to be escorted to his room, where he passed out and just woke up to tell the tale.

So that's the word from Dash, he wanted you guys to know how he did.

Thats total win!

Can you guys complete this for us non tourney guys:

Forum name/real name

Dash /
Stelek (I know hes not on here) /
Blackmoor /
Yermom /
Is hyvmnd playing at this? /
Reecius at this? /
/ Marc Tomlinson
/ Nick Nanavati
/Alan Aleong

Thanks.

DashofPepper / Justin Hildebrandt
Stelek / Andrew Sutton
Blackmoor / Allan Hernandez
Yermom / Nick Nanavati
hyvemind / ?
Reecius / Reece is not there; saw him on the stream last night or the night before.
? / Mark Tomlinson
? / Alan Aleong
The Everliving / Alex Fennell

No, I didn't make it. Got married in Feb. and found out we have a baby on the way so I had to revise my tourney plans for this year =)

Reecius wrote:Hahaha, he lost his third round game, and his 5th because he got disqualified due to being too drunk.

He did win that hangover, though!

wow... Would have liked to watch that on table 1 for the last game. Would have been epic.

Dash must be hung over still....
.....According to the live video feed, Stelek played IG at the Whiskey Challenge.

Also according to Dash's own interview on Live Feed, he played the SW player and won.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Olympia is right.
Every single table at the NOVA Invitational had a referee. Plus MVB was wondering around on top of each table having a judge.

Dash played Stelek first round and beat him. I do not think they played at the wiskey challenge. Stalk also lost to Timmah(sp?) who I beat in round 4.

In the first round of the open every one that people would know seems to have won. There was a lot of baby seal clubbing going on. Or in other words, everyone who did not bring grey knights of space wolves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Damn iPhone spell check! Stalk=Stelek.

I'm not a baby seal
Or so I like to think

hyv3mynd wrote:No, I didn't make it. Got married in Feb. and found out we have a baby on the way so I had to revise my tourney plans for this year =)

Congratulations on starting a family real fast. Enjoy the newness of it all.

Also

http://theback40k.blogspot.com/

Guess Spag took Best overall and according to this site he took the $1000

I didn't make it this yead due to some money issues. My folks had to borrow some dough and my truck got towed so I had to pass, which was a bummer. Next year the whole team and I are going to go.

Some of those details from dash may be innacurate, he was still tipsy when he hit me up and he had just woke up, so he may have been a little confused. Anyway, I just reported it as it was told to me.

ChocolateGork wrote:

Reecius wrote:Dash asked me to post this information for you guys:

Dash crushed Stelek in their Whiskey challenge, taking the primary, secondary and tertiary objectives.

The high stakes $$$ challenege didn't happen because the guy who was meant to play Dash backed out and chose not to play.

Dash played Stelek round one and beat him.

He played Rich his second round and won.

He played Rick Puig his third round who apparently was not very pleasant. He apparently had 3/3 negative sports marks and was pulling some really lame/cheaty moves on Dash, according to Dash. This is where Dash started to drink. Heavily.

Dash Played Alex Fennel 4th round and won.

He would have played Mark Fenek round 5, but got too hammered and had to be escorted to his room, where he passed out and just woke up to tell the tale.

So that's the word from Dash, he wanted you guys to know how he did.

Thats total win!

In a Charlie Sheen kind of way (your a loser but your famous and think highly of yourself anyways) "Winning"

And there where two prizes of $1000. one for best general and one for best overall. Sorry to hear you didnt do that well Hulk, the compition must have been fierce.

Marc Tomlinson doesn't post on Dakka that I know of. He's been playing his Eldar since I first met him at our annual big event 3 years ago, and usually does quite well with it against armies that internet wisdom says he shouldn't.

Game #2 over. You can probably read about what happened at the "yes the truth hurts" blog.

Blackmoor wrote:Game #2 over. You can probably read about what happened at the "yes the truth hurts" blog.

So did you win or lose?

Sounds like Stelek lost. He posted stats for g#1 but not g#2. Just more complaints about dice and tactics.

Sorry for bad reserve rolls

Winning or losing is not important. What is important is that I had a fun game!

Stelek is getting creamed all over the place. I feel a tiny, teeny tinge of immaturity for being happy about this. But then I remember that if anyone deserves it, it's him!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Blackmoor wrote:Winning or losing is not important. What is important is that I had a fun game!

It is fun to win! Haha, well done, Alan, I am glad you won.

Heh, the only way that could have been better is if you would have done it with Footdar. Nice job Alan.

So is this Rick Puig guy really cheating that bad? Even with judges watching every game?

Judges are not watching every game.

Surely if hes cheating consistently though, it'll be highlighted and caught at some stage?
Only takes one incident to be DQ'd right?

Didnt someone say each table had a judge specifically assigned to them? Was that only for the whiskey challenge games?

Only for the invitational tables. 16 tables, Friday only, 5 rounds.

Ah, ok.

hyv3mynd wrote:Only for the invitational tables. 16 tables, Friday only, 5 rounds.

Also, there was a judge for the whiskey challenge games as well.

I find it hard to believe that someone could cheat with a judge hovering over them....
...but then again....anything is possible.

Okay, just to clarify.
For every game going on in the first round we had a judge behind or beside our table. So all 16 games had a judge. Plus a head judge and Mike circulating to assist.
After that, they decided instead of the judges being behind the players, they wanted them on the short edges so they could better view the field. So they changed the tables so that whatever tables we used was on the edge so that they could sit on the short edge which was a very intelligent choice by Mike and his judges.
I do not believe there were any official judges for the Whisky challenge, but I may be wrong since tons of the judges for the invitational were playing/socializing and watching. Plus multiple people were watching.

So all throughout the invitational you had a ref watching every move, every roll. Also they made sure you didn't have a friend judging you. Which was another great choice they were ready for at the invitational.

Clauss wrote:Okay, just to clarify.
For every game going on in the first round we had a judge behind or beside our table. So all 16 games had a judge. Plus a head judge and Mike circulating to assist.
After that, they decided instead of the judges being behind the players, they wanted them on the short edges so they could better view the field. So they changed the tables so that whatever tables we used was on the edge so that they could sit on the short edge which was a very intelligent choice by Mike and his judges.
I do not believe there were any official judges for the Whisky challenge, but I may be wrong since tons of the judges for the invitational were playing/socializing and watching. Plus multiple people were watching.

So all throughout the invitational you had a ref watching every move, every roll. Also they made sure you didn't have a friend judging you. Which was another great choice they were ready for at the invitational.

So says the man with the Daemons...who almost pulled it off. Was rooting for you!

Reecius wrote:Hahaha, he lost his third round game, and his 5th because he got disqualified due to being too drunk.

I always knew it would happen eventually...

I am just glad Dash won over on Space Pupppies that I just did a cart wheel in my hall way. Next year I will challange Dash with my Chaos Mech force, may my Defiler crawl up his leg and sting him. No dirty dark elf will walk away from this fight, I call a Planet Strike 2,000 pt game on Dash Next yr. Awaits an anser in the folds of the warp space whittling human bone into a trophy for the game.

By the way, isn't Irene wrecking the area?

olympia wrote:By the way, isn't Irene wrecking the area?

Nah. I'm sitting here in my condo 50 yards from the ocean in Norfolk, VA with power/wireless internet/cold beer. I'm sure others have it worse, so I'll consider myself lucky.

Clauss wrote:Okay, just to clarify.
For every game going on in the first round we had a judge behind or beside our table. So all 16 games had a judge. Plus a head judge and Mike circulating to assist.
After that, they decided instead of the judges being behind the players, they wanted them on the short edges so they could better view the field. So they changed the tables so that whatever tables we used was on the edge so that they could sit on the short edge which was a very intelligent choice by Mike and his judges.
I do not believe there were any official judges for the Whisky challenge, but I may be wrong since tons of the judges for the invitational were playing/socializing and watching. Plus multiple people were watching.

So all throughout the invitational you had a ref watching every move, every roll. Also they made sure you didn't have a friend judging you. Which was another great choice they were ready for at the invitational.

And to further clarify, Rick and Dash played in the Invitational on Friday. I've seen pics from the game, and there are at least two judges in pretty much every frame.

So. yeah.

I wasn't there, I don't know what actually happened, and honestly, I don't care that much.

But, since I know a lot of people do, what Dash said specifically was that they guy was being very, very rules lawyerish, and sort of being a dick (Dash's perspective, not mine, don't know the dude).

Dash said that he (Dash) was trying to play quickly, at the end of his shooting phase said his turn was over, but then immediately said, wait, he had one more unit to shoot, and the other guy called a judge over to enforce the end of the turn since Dash had said that he was done, even though he immediately retracted the statement when he saw he still had a unit to shoot.

So, draw your own conclusions about that. Dash said Rick (or whichever guy it was) was doing stuff like that all game.

Personally, if that is true, that is douche status in my opinion. I always let people do stuff in tournaments so long as we haven't moved on to another phase of the game (and actually begun making actions in that phase). But, that is just my opinion, others I am sure see it differently.

olympia wrote:By the way, isn't Irene wrecking the area?

I'm in between Baltimore and D.C. and things are surprisingly mild right now. I think it's supposed to hit harder tonight... but as of 6:30pm there's really not much going on.

I think the main concern is flooding in low-lying areas, but that shouldn't be an issue for the tournament venue.

Reecius wrote:I wasn't there, I don't know what actually happened, and honestly, I don't care that much.

But, since I know a lot of people do, what Dash said specifically was that they guy was being very, very rules lawyerish, and sort of being a dick (Dash's perspective, not mine, don't know the dude).

Dash said that he (Dash) was trying to play quickly, at the end of his shooting phase said his turn was over, but then immediately said, wait, he had one more unit to shoot, and the other guy called a judge over to enforce the end of the turn since Dash had said that he was done, even though he immediately retracted the statement when he saw he still had a unit to shoot.

So, draw your own conclusions about that. Dash said Rick (or whichever guy it was) was doing stuff like that all game.

Personally, if that is true, that is douche status in my opinion. I always let people do stuff in tournaments so long as we haven't moved on to another phase of the game (and actually begun making actions in that phase). But, that is just my opinion, others I am sure see it differently.

Ah, well, that's not cheating... but it certainly is rather dickish to play like that.

Good to know everything was on the up and up though with judges. Sounds like things have run rather smoothly so far!

Yermon is saying Tau beat his Grey Knights. We have been finding the same thing in our games.

Reecius wrote:I wasn't there, I don't know what actually happened, and honestly, I don't care that much.

But, since I know a lot of people do, what Dash said specifically was that they guy was being very, very rules lawyerish, and sort of being a dick (Dash's perspective, not mine, don't know the dude).

Dash said that he (Dash) was trying to play quickly, at the end of his shooting phase said his turn was over, but then immediately said, wait, he had one more unit to shoot, and the other guy called a judge over to enforce the end of the turn since Dash had said that he was done, even though he immediately retracted the statement when he saw he still had a unit to shoot.

So, draw your own conclusions about that. Dash said Rick (or whichever guy it was) was doing stuff like that all game.

Personally, if that is true, that is douche status in my opinion. I always let people do stuff in tournaments so long as we haven't moved on to another phase of the game (and actually begun making actions in that phase). But, that is just my opinion, others I am sure see it differently.

I wasn't there either, so I don't care that much more about it than you do... But there were judges at these games, and since people were getting confused on that point I thought I would clear it up.

And while I certainly agree that if the scenario you describe went down that way it was pretty unsporting, but it is a long way from 'unsporting' to 'cheating'. And with all of the judges around it seems pretty unlikely he was guilty of the second. If he is going to be tried in the court of Forum Opinion we should at least be clear on the crime. And I also felt like it was the fair thing to do for MVB, so people didn't get the wrong impression about his event.

Unsporting yes but it was for $1000. He did not cheat and punished Dash's mistake for calling it a turn early when he still had things to do.

thehod wrote:Unsporting yes but it was for $1000. He did not cheat and punished Dash's mistake for calling it a turn early when he still had things to do.

Gotta agree here.

In a friendly game or in 99.9% of tournament games I'll be a nice guy and say "Sure bro, go ahead!" in a situation like Mr. OfPepper's.

Playing for 1000 bucks, after I traveled to NOVA? Hell no. You said your turn was over, jack.

Anyone know what list Andrew Gonyo(GK) is running?

I was standing at the table watching Rick Piug vs Dash almost the entire time. Was Rick being a lawyer? Damn right he was. But there was no cheating, no mind war, and while dash seemed beat down, IG vs DE is a really rough match for the DE. I think Dash handled the loss well, and the two shook hands after.

blah blah dramma blah

I would consider myself sort of a novice player, so it's interesting to see some of these guys not know the codex they are using. Or they are cheating. Just watched a Tyranid player playing against Grey Knights and when his Tervigon died, he said he only had to put wounds on one squad. There were a couple other instances I have seen in another game (for an army I don't even play) where the guy had to look up the rules. Is this common? I kind of expected guys to know their codex at a tourney like this.

Anyone know who the top 16 are that qualify for tomorrow's main event, or bracket??

whoadirty wrote:I would consider myself sort of a novice player, so it's interesting to see some of these guys not know the codex they are using. Or they are cheating. Just watched a Tyranid player playing against Grey Knights and when his Tervigon died, he said he only had to put wounds on one squad. There were a couple other instances I have seen in another game (for an army I don't even play) where the guy had to look up the rules. Is this common? I kind of expected guys to know their codex at a tourney like this.

Did nids end up winning that one? The grey knight player pulled some stuff with the infiltration rules.

I must say that nid player doesn't really seem to know his codex, or the main rules for that matter, I've watched 2 games of his now and on both occasions he was corrected about very simple rules, as in USR. I can't believe he's still on the top table. Really interesting to see the difference in standard between yesterday and today though.

Mookie

Tomb King wrote:

whoadirty wrote:I would consider myself sort of a novice player, so it's interesting to see some of these guys not know the codex they are using. Or they are cheating. Just watched a Tyranid player playing against Grey Knights and when his Tervigon died, he said he only had to put wounds on one squad. There were a couple other instances I have seen in another game (for an army I don't even play) where the guy had to look up the rules. Is this common? I kind of expected guys to know their codex at a tourney like this.

Did nids end up winning that one? The grey knight player pulled some stuff with the infiltration rules.

Didn't see the end (Patriots game came on) but I did watch Corteaz roll three straight 1s for armour saves.

It's always easier to spot errors when not playing the game, though. Not saying you guys are wrong, just that seeing some errors would be pretty common if you were to spectate an entire game (I'm not sure I've ever seen / been a part of one with absolutely zero errors on both sides).

It is very simple people will let you give them an advantage by pretending to not know their rules.

That top table was painful to watch. It really ruined the live coverage in my opinion. I know he's just there to have fun like everyone is, however that game is getting livecasted it should be held to another standard. None of the games went past turn 4, and the only game that did go past turn 4 was because his opponent was actively rushing him. He is playing an army that does very well especially on mission objectives during the early game. Of course he is going to go undefeated when games are only going 2 turns.

Link, for the uniatiated, who you talking about???

From the little I watched, there was a tyranid player under the camera for 2 games that only finished 3/4 turns. Wasn't very familiar with his own unit's stats and rules.

I understand there's added pressure playing under a camera and I've never done it. Even still, I've played nids exclusively for a year and you really have to move to finish 2k games in a time limit. Assaults with multiple initiatives, rending, armor, and FnP really slow the game down.

Tomorrow should be a lot better as hopefully the most experienced players play under the camera at a better pace with more solid rules knowledge.

With all do respect, I was not impressed with the top table! Once again, big tournaments are about drawings, and a little luck plays into it. I expect to see better table top gaming tomorrow.

Tony Malave
http://chicagokamikazes.blogspot.com//

Who won the last match on table 1? I lost power for a spell(hurricane and all). It was the nid and GK game. GK player was playing fish in a barrel.

*Hopes Nids do well* !

I can agree that the top table was not the most "appealing" games to watch.
I also saw some pretty shady things going on with the Tyranid player; however, I am willing to chalk it up to being new(er) to the game.
Having said that....
...I have no doubt that MVB is aware of the situation; and will do what he can to make sure all the parties involved are aware of any possible problems.

In my opinion two thumbs up for the willingness to have an event like this broadcast from beginning to end.

Blackmoor wrote:Dash played Stelek first round and beat him. I do not think they played at the wiskey challenge. Stalk also lost to Timmah(sp?) who I beat in round 4.

Only cause blackmoor is a cheater! :p

Couple of opinions from me.

In the Dash situation, from his explanation, it was one sentence, "I'm done, wait". If this is the case, he never finished his turn in my opinion. It would be the same as saying "I think I'm done" and then continuing your turn. However, I only got Dash's account.

Secondly, time needs to be watched better imo. I heard from this others only finished turn 4 or so. Speaking as someone who only finished four rounds and then had his opponent tell the judge that he could not possibly complete a turn in 10 minutes, it gets kind of annoying. If you cannot finish a turn in 10 minutes, how do you expect to play a 2 hour game? 12 turns, 10 mins each, 2 hours. Getting slow played is very annoying, especially when its objectives and you have first turn.

In my opinion two thumbs up for the willingness to have an event like this broadcast from beginning to end.

Total credit to the team who are Broadcasting live, a lot of us over the pond dont do tourneys (at least not on this level! )and to watch the NOVA feed is.....honestly inspirational

I hope he is not on table 1 on Sunday. Again not knocking the player, but the games are tedious to watch. I wanted to claw my eyes out during the orks vs. nids game.

Ratius wrote:

In my opinion two thumbs up for the willingness to have an event like this broadcast from beginning to end.

Total credit to the team who are Broadcasting live, a lot of us over the pond dont do tourneys (at least not on this level! )and to watch the NOVA feed is.....honestly inspirational

Agreed, saying that NOVA has set a new high standard is a gross understatement.

It's not suprising to me at all to have people playing (and winning) at tournaments who seem hazy on their rules. It's very common.

Just to reiterate,

I did not say anything about this Rick guy. I simply repeated what Dash told me.

I don't know the dude and have no opinion on him, and no idea what actually happened.

As for the livecast, I have really been enjoying it so far and I think it is a great first step towards making this hobby more interactive.

I don't know though, Reece- it might've been nice to leave that part out when relaying the info. You can't very well say "So-and-so said this guy's a douche, but I'm not saying so"... since, you know, you just did!

Anyway, I think we've covered that part. Did someone say they could post up who the top 16 for tomorrow are? I believe the winner has to go undefeated, right, so we'd know for sure that the winner will be one of those 16.

Someone who's there with a smart phone hook us up

Reecius wrote:Just to reiterate,

I did not say anything about this Rick guy. I simply repeated what Dash told me.

I don't know the dude and have no opinion on him, and no idea what actually happened.

But yet you're willing to gossip knowing one side of the story and just "repeat" that the guy is a dickish, douche ruleslawyer?

Reecius wrote:I wasn't there, I don't know what actually happened, and honestly, I don't care that much.

But, since I know a lot of people do, what Dash said specifically was that they guy was being very, very rules lawyerish, and sort of being a dick (Dash's perspective, not mine, don't know the dude).

Dash said that he (Dash) was trying to play quickly, at the end of his shooting phase said his turn was over, but then immediately said, wait, he had one more unit to shoot, and the other guy called a judge over to enforce the end of the turn since Dash had said that he was done, even though he immediately retracted the statement when he saw he still had a unit to shoot.

So, draw your own conclusions about that. Dash said Rick (or whichever guy it was) was doing stuff like that all game.

Personally, if that is true, that is douche status in my opinion. I always let people do stuff in tournaments so long as we haven't moved on to another phase of the game (and actually begun making actions in that phase). But, that is just my opinion, others I am sure see it differently.

Totally agree Reecius!

Its been an unreal event! but having said that, let DoP post on here or link to another site, you dont need to post hearsay or 2nd hand accounts!

Im not saying DoP is wong but let Dashy tell his own tale

Us non-US tourny guys love to see the best of the best!

PS thx Mannaheim for posting the RL names vs the dakka names

I know that Dawson from the Imperial Vox Cast went 4-0.
Tony Kopach went 4-0.

Blackmoor was winning against Nids on table 2, but I am not sure if he pulled it off.

warboss wrote:But yet you're willing to gossip knowing one side of the story and just "repeat" that the guy is a dickish, douche ruleslawyer?

Yeah, he's relaying someone else's words.

How hard is that to grasp?


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Magilla Gurilla wrote:I know that Dawson from the Imperial Vox Cast went 4-0.

Booyah!

IVC in the house!

Ouch 4am here, in EU land!

Doh NN!

This is Mrs. Dash so take this for what you will. It wasn't the fact that Dash didn't get to finish his first (or second turn), it was that the other guy had to have a judge intercede over and OVER and OVER again every turn because he was moving too far, shooting, trying to shoot again, dice marking vehicle damage would disappear, going back to moved units to move them more, moving too fast to shoot all his weapons then claiming he went slower to shoot them all and the judge got most of it. Near the end, he started slow playing Dash to try stopping another turn from happening and still hadn't moved out of his corner enough to take the other quarters so Dash stopped him at the start of shooting, picked up Rick's models, moved them and flat-outed them into quarters so that he could get the win because he just wanted to leave. He said "ok you have three, you win." And Rick wouldn't let the game stop because he wanted more VP for better standing at which point Dash said "Fine, count whatever youwant for VP."

After the game he planned on leaving the event because he was mad enough to take it out on whoever he had to play against next, but took advice to have some drinks to relax instead so he did and had too many - his last game against Mark got to deployment and the start of the first movement, and then Dash had to go to sleep. His opponent was a friend of Dash's and didn't mind since their game didn't matter anyway.

Today, Dash went 4-0 as did Hulksmash. Rick lost (I saw the end of it) amidst much drama against a guy I don't know the name of who is one of the nicest guys I ever met. He won one of the $1000 prizes yesterday at the invitational. I don't know why Rick didn't get disqualified because several players (including Dash) all made the same complaints (slow-playing, douchery, cheating).

*edit*
Oh, and Dash isn't on Dakka anymore whether he wanted to post or not.

I wonder if "Rick" is on the forums. I'm sure we all will find out soon enough.

Thanks for the update Ms. Dash!

Can you clarify who Rick is (either dakka forum or RL name)

Who was Mark in the last game?

*non USA tourney guy!* Hulksmashs RL name is?

I know DoP isnt on Dakka anymore, that is by hook or by crook, persoanlly , I dont care

I don't know if Rick is on Dakka or anywhere else, but a lot of the people at the event know him and talked to Dash in private about him before and after their game. Mark is a really tall guy that Dash met and played last year but I don't know his last name or if he is on Dakka. Hulksmash is Brad Townsend.

Monster Rain wrote:

warboss wrote:But yet you're willing to gossip knowing one side of the story and just "repeat" that the guy is a dickish, douche ruleslawyer?

Yeah, he's relaying someone else's words.

How hard is that to grasp?

How is it hard to grasp that childish name calling and trolling by proxy is still childish name calling and trolling?

Dodiez wrote:This is Mrs. Dash so take this for what you will.

***SNIP***

Today, Dash went 4-0 as did Hulksmash. Rick lost (I saw the end of it) amidst much drama against a guy I don't know the name of who is one of the nicest guys I ever met. He won one of the $1000 prizes yesterday at the invitational. I don't know why Rick didn't get disqualified because several players (including Dash) all made the same complaints (slow-playing, douchery, cheating).

*edit*
Oh, and Dash isn't on Dakka anymore whether he wanted to post or not.

I just don't think its appropriate that EITHER side devolve the thread into name calling (whether in person or by proxy). I've enjoyed watching the live streams from an obviously well run event but the infusion of yet another episode of drama from such a consistent source just brings down the thread and tarnishes the tourney. It simply doesn't belong in the thread.

LOL! Dash had to "go to sleep"

I really like Dash, drama seems to follow him everywhere though. Personally I hope he wins the Nova clean and drama free.

I am enjoying the live feed and reading up on the tournament. However, I ask politely that you all kill the drama. gak happened, someone posted it on here and it has been ever winding from there. It happened drop it and continue mission. Lets look forward to some good games tomorrow.


BTW: Nids lost to those grey knights on that last game we saw. Nids were playing kind of slow but I hate rooting for grey knights. lol

warboss wrote:How is it hard to grasp that childish name calling and trolling by proxy is still childish name calling and trolling?

I don't really think that this is what happened; however, in general I do agree with that statement.

Drama, drama, drama. I think MVB should get a llama as the mascot for this event.

Dodiez wrote:Today, Dash went 4-0 as did Hulksmash.

Awesome to hear! Looking forward to finding out how the finals go tomorrow

LOL! Dash had to "go to sleep"

I really like Dash, drama seems to follow him everywhere though. Personally I hope he wins the Nova clean and drama free.

Hmmm, yeah but if one is gonna prepare for a few months, take the best possible army list/tactical/strategic analysis/any and all comers? (Reecius/Hyvmnd/Stellek/Blackmoor!)

Then....dont get comotose, I think Dash is bordering on magical, take it, bring it, fight it, crush it.

But....there are always excuses, ALWAYS :(

Perhaps, like the Drunken Master, Dash gets better at 40k the more he drinks.

DoP, I recall the above.

Tomorrow should be interesting for sure.
I can not wait to see who emerges as the victor....
...sadly no 4-0 Deathwing.

It sounds like some of you guys don't know that Dash CAN'T post on Dakka. He asked me to tell that story, I didn't go out of my way to spread gossip.

He asked me to tell his story for him, so I did. He used some strong language, I asked him if he wanted me to tone it down, he said no, and so I didn't.

I gave the story as he wanted it told.

So, there it is. Don't hate on the messenger.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And way to go Dawson!

Monster Rain wrote:Perhaps, like the Drunken Master, Dash gets better at 40k the more he drinks.

As someone who's played against Dash while he was drinking, he definitely plays a much more fun-oriented game as he drinks.

Reecius wrote:And way to go Dawson!

Yea, I am stoked for Dawson.
Sadly Silus went 2-2...but IVC is still representing.

Reecius, I don't think people are harping on the part you got from dash, just the commentary:

"Personally, if that is true, that is douche status in my opinion."

I think the hate for your comment is misguided though. Your commentary is pretty specific - IF it is true, THEN it's pretty douchy. There's really not much more to it than that, and it's true - the way he's described as acting, if true, is douche city. Maybe the commentary is unnecessary, but people are acting like you said "HE IS A JERK" when you just said "IF THIS IS TRUE...THEN THAT IS SOME JERKY BEHAVIOR". Big difference, people need to calm down.

I think we need to roll this back to..what is it about Tau that makes them Grey Knights beaters so I can dust them off and play them next weekend at the smackdown! The only obvious thing I can see is that Broadsides/Hammerheads probably own Psybolt Autocannon Dreads. What else?!

I get it, Reecius- my point was just that you obviously have a choice in that... and you chose to pass along the derogatory language. Just because it originated from someone else doesn't make it A-OK... (i.e., someone posting "RiTide's a douche". I'd kind of be upset at the poster, even if it wasn't their words. And no, that's not an invitation )

Anyway, I'm pretty much sick of talking about this . Back to the tabletop, and the finals!

What is the fething point of "not being able to post on Dakka" if you're gonna send people in as messengers anyway?
Argh.
Reecius, not aimed at you, got no beef with you. But did Dash get banned or something?
I can't think of an event that would have caused that. So is the not posting by choice? In which case, posting by proxy is silly.

True enough, Lambadomy, I did add in my two cents there. But like you said, I qualified the statement so that it would be clear I was talking about a hypothetical. Oh well.

Jy2 has had trouble with Tau as well. My Eldar have beaten them every time I have played them as well.

I think the Tau, as Yermon pointed out, have more firepower and greater mobility. I know in 4th ed, Tau were the bane of my Marines' existence. I hated playing them. I think the same is true for Grey Knights now.

I think that is awesome that two lower tier books can serve as counter meta lists and hopefully become more popular in tournaments as spoiler lists. Eldar can still get it done, Tau only really have to worry about fast assault armies and Missile Wolves. IG are rough on both of those armies, but they have really gone down in popularity lately.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@RiTides and Da Boss

You guys have good points. Dash did get banned yes, but he asked me to do a favor and I did.

I can see how someone might get offended, and if I did offend, I apologize. I just wanted to get the word out because I know a lot of people were curious as to how Dash did.

And now I will drop it, it is a dead horse at this juncture.

Nah man, like I said, I haven't got a problem with you.
Sorry to hear Dash was banned, anyhow.

I apologise, I didnt mean to be harsh on DoP, or Reecius etc. , us non-USA tourney guys just wanna hear the real "story", no BS, no forum bias, no crap, just real hardcore games!

Hello all, I played at the Nova today, was a blast. I didn't see any of the slowhammer at table one, sounds rough. I hope I can make it tomorrow with the hurricane...

Since I know Rick very well and he has described the game with Dash to me I figured I would mention two quick things.

1) According to Rick, Dash said "Ok, I'm done. Your turn." or something exactly analogous. Then Dash, who was standing for his turn, sat down. Rick stood up to begin his turn but before Rick had moved any models Dash said "wait, I didn't shoot this unit" or something exactly analogous. Rick said, "Um, no you ended your turn". The judge at the table sided with Rick, other judges were called over (Mike?) and supported the ruling and that was that.

So this is the other side of the story. Two questions present themselves. Was it cheating? and Was it acceptable sportsmanship? Judge for yourselves, I would say clearly no to the former and, considering the circumstance of this being THE competative tournament and the cash prize on the line, yes to the latter.

2) In response to the comment from Mrs. Dash implying drama over Ricks game vs. Aaron, I would call that fully unsupported and a fabrication. See, I played Aaron in round 2 (bastard narowly beat me! but alas, it was only close because I was rolling better so fair is fair) so me and him chatted during/after his round three game and, seeing him paired with Rick in round four, I walked by a few times and went over when my game finished early. It was very tight game with a good share of sillyness; Aaron had 4 TWC die to one manticore blast due to bad saves, but when Rick needed to ding another wound off the lord in the last turn he just couldn't do it. They shook and were laughing and smiling. I even got Aaron to admit to us that I was closer to beating him than Rick, much to my amusement.

Just... try to keep unsubstantiated hersay to a minimum please. If someone got Aaron to come on here and say that he hated playing Rick etc. etc. then maybe we would have something to talk about, but as it stands this is baseless.

What I'm really curious about is to find out which armies do/did well (both in the invitational and in the main tournament). I'm particularly interested to know what armies and flavors of them are in the top 16... similar to how you guys listed out the armies and builds of most of the participants in the Bay Area Open.

I'm not anticipating this information in real-time, but hopefully it surfaces soon after

What's Blackmoor's record, does anyone know?

Last report before the live feed went down was Blackmoor was 3-0 and beating Nids with his Draigo List

Excellent! Another recognizable person from Dakka likely to be in the top 16 for tomorrow

What? He got banned again? He was just posting on here 2 weeks ago! ><

Anywho, who is everyone rooting for to win this year?

Man, Blackmoor has been doing work with that Draigo list! It doesn't look like much on paper, but he plays it well.

I agree with RiTides, I love seeing that data after the tournament. It is really interesting to see what lists perform well. Hopefully Mike is collating that data for us so we can chew on it after the event is over.

@301slow1

Thanks for putting your two cents in as well. It is always better to have both sides of the story.

From the looks of the few pictures out there, the Tau are all TL-Missile Pods and Flamers (alot of them) or Missile Pods and Plasma; with Pathfinders.

I had found more pictures earlier, but as of now, this is the only Tau picture I can find: http://www.flickr.com/photos/66809173@N02/6081822472/in/photostream/lightbox/

If I am not mistaken, if you guys are talking about a Tau Player by the name of Rich, that is most likely Rich Therkorn, he played in the invitational. He is a very good player who also plays BA, well mannered guy, intelligent player. Brought tau, I would expect him to do quite well.

So.........Has Dash been permanently banned? He brings alot of fun to these forums. All the interesting people seem to be banned...Stelek for example....


I got banned one time for making a who would win in a real fight poll...Stelek vs Gwar.

Whatever happened to that guy btw?

No, he hasn't, but he is suspended currently...

Can we get back to talking about the tourney now?

RiTides wrote:No, he hasn't, but he is suspended currently...

Can we get back to talking about the tourney now?

ya... i blame the mods. lol j.k

Ya did anyone get a list of what armies and players were left?

Rick's on Dakka, "discountbarber"

Here is one of his past threads and blog..

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/380581.page

http://discountbarber.com/

Saturday was a blast so far for me. I got utterly spanked and banished to the Xenos room though. I can tell you that the low tables on day one are all xenos for the most part. So far I played dark eldar, a true leafblower iguard, battlewagon orks and lash chaos.All great games, all great opponents. I have talked with a few players who have said there have been some heated moments at the high tables but that happens I suppose when it really matters who wins.

Looking forward to day 2 here in a few minutes. I totally took a bad list with units I didn't have too much experience, but all the games haven't been onesided at all.

Good luck today everyone. Let's hope the xenos room gets AC all day today!


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Saturday was a blast so far for me. I got utterly spanked and banished to the Xenos room though. I can tell you that the low tables on day one are all xenos for the most part. So far I played dark eldar, a true leafblower iguard, battlewagon orks and lash chaos.All great games, all great opponents. I have talked with a few players who have said there have been some heated moments at the high tables but that happens I suppose when it really matters who wins.

Looking forward to day 2 here in a few minutes. I totally took a bad list with units I didn't have too much experience, but all the games haven't been onesided at all.

Good luck today everyone. Let's hope the xenos room gets AC all day today!

Would have been nice to see the games talked about without the commentary about a persons personality. Simple fact is some people live here on the internet while others don't care and therefore you tend to get one side of the story. Proxy story telling still just as bad as someone coming on and telling in 1st person. I am starting to miss the days of the old GW GTs that did not have the internet to devolve the event. Overall sounds like a good event if you just take the games played without the story telling. Though I am getting tired of dice spam armies.

Tyranids were both on table 1&2 yesterday in round 4 and they lost both to grey knights.

Nids vs Waking Force Weapons=ow

Here are the top 16 armies:

5 Grey Knights
4 Space Wolves
2 Imperial Guard
2 Dark Eldar
1 Blood Angel
1Tyranid
1 Ork

The Tyranid player lost in round 5 to Dash of Pepper, and the Ork player to me. Right now it does not look good for the BA player.


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Notables still in it:
Neil from the 11th Co.
Hulksmash
Yermom
Dash of Pepper
Tony kopeck
Dawson from the Imperial Vox Cast



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Yermom down to Neil G.

Thanks for the update, Blackmoor . Good luck today!

Dawson lost to IG


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Hulksmash beat Andrew Gonyo

You guys must have started on-time! It's not even 11:00...

Go Hulksmash!

I wish i was playing right now...Kopach beat Puig or do we not know?
Damn school only let me do the invitational :(

Blackmoor wrote:Dawson lost to IG


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Hulksmash beat Andrew Gonyo

Did Hulksmash end up going with his Wolfguard list?

Go hulk!

Awesome, I have a number of friends in the top 16! Very interested to see who wins.

Me vs. Neil G.
Dash vs. Hulk

Blackmoor wrote:Here are the top 16 armies:

5 Grey Knights
4 Space Wolves
2 Imperial Guard
2 Dark Eldar
1 Blood Angel
1Tyranid
1 Ork

9 out of 16 are Space Wolves and Grey Knights. I think you are going to get that at 2000pts. Lower the game to 1500pts and those armies can't have every bell and whistle and must make hard choices.

Round 6 match-ups for Tier 1 up.

Top 8 are now: 2 GK, 2 DE, 2 SW, 1 BA, 1 IG

12/16 are Imperials. With terrain like at NOVA, DE does better thanks to mobility and limiting firelanes.

Is it just me, or are Blood Angels and Guard not doing that great in tournaments anymore?

DarthDiggler wrote:

Blackmoor wrote:Here are the top 16 armies:

5 Grey Knights
4 Space Wolves
2 Imperial Guard
2 Dark Eldar
1 Blood Angel
1Tyranid
1 Ork

9 out of 16 are Space Wolves and Grey Knights. I think you are going to get that at 2000pts. Lower the game to 1500pts and those armies can't have every bell and whistle and must make hard choices.

I can't exalt this post enough. Tournaments really, really, REALLY need to go to 1500. Better balance, more tactics, more variety, easier to paint, less time needed to play. 1500 is such a great (the best!) point level for the game.

@Walls
I like 1500 too, but I don't think it is "better" per se, just different. Different armies are better at 1500, it isn't more balanced, just a shifted balance, IMO.

However, I agree that 1500 is better for tournament play since it is so much faster. Games will finish on time.

@Backfire
BA never did that well, honestly. They are represented in large numbers but never seem to deliver the goods.

IG still do well, but the numbers have dropped significantly. You just don't see as many of them anymore.

If both players are competent, 1850 plays fast.

Too many army builds are killed off at 1500. Armies with hordes of cheap troops that can overwhelm smaller armies take over, because smaller armies can't take the firepower needed to level the field.

1850 has the best balance for the game....

Walls wrote:

DarthDiggler wrote:

Blackmoor wrote:Here are the top 16 armies:

5 Grey Knights
4 Space Wolves
2 Imperial Guard
2 Dark Eldar
1 Blood Angel
1Tyranid
1 Ork

9 out of 16 are Space Wolves and Grey Knights. I think you are going to get that at 2000pts. Lower the game to 1500pts and those armies can't have every bell and whistle and must make hard choices.

I can't exalt this post enough. Tournaments really, really, REALLY need to go to 1500. Better balance, more tactics, more variety, easier to paint, less time needed to play. 1500 is such a great (the best!) point level for the game.

Never understood the 1500 pt argument. There is variety and decisions to be made at almost all point levels . About the only thing you save is time at 1500 points.

Backfire wrote:Is it just me, or are Blood Angels and Guard not doing that great in tournaments anymore?

I don't think either were ever truly overpowered. A few people got their butts kicked by new builds and started whining reflexively and they just got that rep. IG with alpha strike was a completely new meta (no one could ever throw out as many pie plates on turn 1 in the history of the game prior due to squadron rules and manticore barrages) that took some time to get used to. BA has plenty of wailing in regards to deepstriking Land Raiders and DOA but neither turned out to be game breaking. SW and GK has some units that are definitely undercosted for their power/utility and it ends up showing in the rankings... I'd suspect SW will stay close to the top for the remainder of the edition (just like with their release in 3rd edition).


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sabote wrote:Never understood the 1500 pt argument. There is variety and decisions to be made at almost all point levels . About the only thing you save is time at 1500 points.

1500pts is an interesting army value because it generally allows every army to cover the usual bases (1 hq, 2 troops) while still allowing at least a single "gimmick" to be added to spice up the army. I rather like the size for tournies.

Reecius wrote:@Walls
I like 1500 too, but I don't think it is "better" per se, just different. Different armies are better at 1500, it isn't more balanced, just a shifted balance, IMO.

However, I agree that 1500 is better for tournament play since it is so much faster. Games will finish on time.

Point well made. It is indeed a different balance. I just like it because you cannot take ALL your autowin buttons and really have to think about what you are putting in the list to cover your bases... and sometimes not all bases will be covered.

Keeping with the thread though...

Still haven't heard about painting awards!

Blackmoor beat Neil

Dash beat Hulk

both very close matches

Moving on:
Me with paladins
Dash with his DE
Tony Kopack and his SW
And a GK player

The feed has been excellent, and the chat has been such a great place.

Wow, the player on the bottom of the feed keeps moving terrain and now the objectives are uneven. Anyone else catch him trying make the center obj closer to the bottom right terrain obj?

Round 7 match-ups so far.

The BA player from Round 6 was actually a GK player my bad there. Top 4 is currently GK v GK and DE v IG.

Waiting for the rest of the top 16 to cascade down.

Do all the tables have perfectly symmetrical terrain? The missions already take any flavor out of the game by being redundent, if all the tables are symmetrical that would be boring beyond belief.

I understand trying to make things equal for both players, but why don't you just have everyone take the same army then because the army they bring makes the game uneven before they begin.

BTW - Dash doesn't know what Njall does and he's getting a rundown after Tony has started his first turn. He would have tried to seize if he knew beforehand. What a huge boob move.

DarthDiggler wrote:Do all the tables have perfectly symmetrical terrain? The missions already take any flavor out of the game by being redundent, if all the tables are symmetrical that would be boring beyond belief.

I understand trying to make things equal for both players, but why don't you just have everyone take the same army then because the army they bring makes the game uneven before they begin.

BTW - Dash doesn't know what Njall does and he's getting a rundown after Tony has started his first turn. He would have tried to seize if he knew beforehand. What a huge boob move.

I think dash made a mistake reserving everything here. He might get messed up in this one. SW player forgot he had 2 scouts!

Tony should have popped smoke on the two end-piece rhinos.


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damn...and he forgot his scout reserve rolls....doh

olympia wrote:Tony should have popped smoke on the two end-piece rhinos.


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damn...and he forgot his scout reserve rolls....doh

He is nervous and is choking a little. The space wolves player is in great position he needs to calm down and play his game. He had djals power for the cover!

Tomb King wrote:

I think dash made a mistake reserving everything here. He might get messed up in this one. SW player forgot he had 2 scouts!

No. He now denies two shooting phases of Space Wolves and gets the first shooting in against Fangs.

He forgot scouts again on turn 3

Hmm, it seems to me they're not really doing whole lot of damage to each other yet...both are passing plenty of saves.

space wolves player just rolled 5 scatters for 4 shots unless i missed something.

Denying two shooting phases of the long fangs is good, but only having half your army on the board when they do get to shoot is rough, even if you get first shot. Dash's venom's that came on didn't do much, though the rolling was slightly unlucky. Without seeing the tables from eye level though I can't comment on how easy or hard it would have been to deny or limit shots at the venoms, the elevation of the buildings looks like it would make it hard and make reserving probably the right call.



I agree that the terrain on the tables appears too boring and the same.

I don't know what the perfect balance is but having different types of useful terrain in each quarter instead of 4 ruins, moving the terrain apart more, having larger but slightly off center LOS blocking terrain in the middle on some tables, etc can add a lot of flavor to 40k without unbalancing an individual game...and if you're guaranteed X layout and type of terrain on every table then it does influence army builds and army choices. I know that having guaranteed multiple elevated firing positions in either deployment zone makes my space wolves a lot happier.

DarthDiggler wrote:He forgot scouts again on turn 3

I'm not watching the feed, but I always have a massive issue with this. Bringing models on from Reserves is not an optional choice like firing or moving units, therefore this must be done, especially considering many times it is in the player's benefit to have units arrive from Reserves late in the game and if people are 'allowed' to just 'forget' to roll for their Reserves then they can simply pretend to forget to achieve this.

Therefore, I think Reserves should have to be moved on if at all humanly possible...even if a player has screwed up and started moving other units in the movement phase the game basically requires for fairness that you bend things around a bit to get those Reserves into play when they're supposed to arrive.

So I personally hate when people try to act like...well you forgot to make the roll and started moving your models and therefore its just too late! People aren't realizing that sometimes its a BENEFIT to not get your reserves on early in the game, so allowances need to be made when a screw-up like this happens.

Not sure if it would have been possible in this game ('cause like I said, I'm not watching the feed), but I just hate it when that happens.

I'd like to apolgise for what I said about DoP yesterday, frankly its none of my business how he plays or conducts himself. I think hes done a lot for the game in terms of his batreps and articles.
Sorry if any offense was caused Dash, good luck for tourney.

Go Allan/Draigowing! Love to see that list do well and that ustream game between Allan and Neil was just awesome.

I have to just say that the 11th co. guys are doing a spectacular job covering these games as well. What a great thing for the community.

Yak I agree, it is the worst. And it really is something both players should be forced to worry about/do automatically. Not only can players "forget" to their advantage, but often the other player will decide on the fly if the player who forgot should be allowed to do it based on the situation.

Sometimes I feel like 40k needs the back cover of the rulebook to just be the phase order, and tournaments need huge signs displaying it so people "forget" less often.

If venoms get the drop on long fangs--dead puppies.

Monster Rain wrote:

thehod wrote:Unsporting yes but it was for $1000. He did not cheat and punished Dash's mistake for calling it a turn early when he still had things to do.

Gotta agree here.

In a friendly game or in 99.9% of tournament games I'll be a nice guy and say "Sure bro, go ahead!" in a situation like Mr. OfPepper's.

Playing for 1000 bucks, after I traveled to NOVA? Hell no. You said your turn was over, jack.

And this is why I think having a cash prize for a 40K tournament is a poor idea. I don't care if I'm playing in my garage or for a million dollars...not only would I allow my opponent to go back and fire some units he forgot (provided no rolls have occurred since that have changed the game situation), but I would actively remind my opponent that he has forgotten to fire said units.

That's what sportsmanship is all about. Tournament 40K games are frequently played at an extremely fast pace in order to get done in time and this means occasionally players forget to do something so as to try to have a complete game for both players. Therefore everyone should always cut their opponent some slack and allow them to finish stuff they forgot (as long as other impactful things haven't already happened that can't be taken back).

Call me crazy, but when I beat someone I want to do so because I out-strategized and outmaneuvered them, not because they forgot to do something critical in the heat of the moment. Maybe that's why I'll never win 1st place at a big tournament, but you know what? I'm happy with that because I feel like I'm treating people like I'd like to be treated.

Yak hit the nail on the head. Should be a big ass trophy instead of $1000.


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By the way, I'm so happy that I have tokens. The current game and the other two I watched were full of quesitons/comments like "that one moved" "did they go to ground" "how far did that vehicle move" etc. Tokens people! GW makes a nice set.

From watching Dash get his vehicles mixed up....

If I, as your opponent, placed name markers next to your vehicles, to remind me (us) what was in it, would you be offended or feel something was unfair about this?

I'm thinking dry erase strips that I write the unit name on and use that to track the contents, rather than constantly ask....cause people may have faulty memories...

KGatch113 wrote:

From watching Dash get his vehicles mixed up....

If I, as your opponent, placed name markers next to your vehicles, to remind me (us) what was in it, would you be offended or feel something was unfair about this?

I'm thinking dry erase strips that I write the unit name on and use that to track the contents, rather than constantly ask....cause people may have faulty memories...

No one should have a problem with this; if they do it reflects poorly on them.

Yeah I think when you're playing for this kind of stakes, the game needs to change:

Judge on every table

CLEAR labelling of who is in every transport

Tokens for Shaken, Stunned, Immobilized, Move distances, what units moved/shot...etc.

If you're making a 6 inch move...use the blue template, put your measuring tape away...and lay it down if possible.

3+ hour rounds, or even "the game plays until it ends, and if you slow play you're DQed".

The first two should just be general courtesy and expected in any tournament...the others are maybe extreme. There is probably more I'm missing. It is just frustrating to see games lose their fun because people are too focused on winning, and too much of that seems to include semi-unsportsmanlike behavior

And jesus christ, put a model from the unit next to your damn transport so people can keep track of empty/full transports/troop vs. elite etc.

This is discusting to watch. Dash is cheating on multiple occasions. I really wish the SW player would step up. Just recently dash added a trueborn to a warrior squad that fled. He has changed squads in transports a couple of times. He didnt remove casaulties on wyches. He tried to have an extra venom in the middle of the board. For someone with this much experience it is blatant cheating.

There seems to be a bit of a shell game going on with transports and their units. Its hard to determine what's going on but I'm sure someone will review the video and report where everything really was. If you're going to field a vehicle heavy army, you need to mark your transports clearly with what's inside. I put on of the models from the squad on top of the vehicle or directly behind it (whatever is most stable to not have it fall over) so its clear to both my opponent and myself what is where.

yakface wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

thehod wrote:Unsporting yes but it was for $1000. He did not cheat and punished Dash's mistake for calling it a turn early when he still had things to do.

Gotta agree here.

In a friendly game or in 99.9% of tournament games I'll be a nice guy and say "Sure bro, go ahead!" in a situation like Mr. OfPepper's.

Playing for 1000 bucks, after I traveled to NOVA? Hell no. You said your turn was over, jack.

And this is why I think having a cash prize for a 40K tournament is a poor idea.

It's why I'd never actually go to an event like this. I'd feel compelled to play that kind of game, and I know that others would be as well. It wouldn't be very much fun.

I agree. Tournaments should be for winning trophies and bragging rights. Maybe something cool like a sword, or limited edition models or forgeworld....

I missed something what is going on the last few rounds? I am confused at the moment.

Damn, Dash and Tony will barely finish turn 5. A leisurely pace.

2k is to many points. They have 10-11 games in less than 2 days. They are tired and the points level is to much to get finished in that time. Well rested players, playing with and against armies they know fully will be fine. Others will not finish.

I just logged back into the feed, can't tell who's winning the Dash / Tony game.

Did Alan (Blackmoor) win his game against Neil, or is it still going on?

Wow. The SW player seems to be losing the plot. Asking the DE player to reroll DT test for a "cocked" dice. It smacks of desperation.

I hear Blackmoor talking in the background of the feed, it sounds like that game is still going on too.

Baron is LD9...doh.

This feed is really unforgiving in terms of showing us people's shenanigans in live fashion.

I really hope Tony wins.

Wow- Dash just removed a beast from his unit, put it in the back to show it was dead... then tried to nudge it back into the back of the unit until Tony pointed it out. Ugh!

Didn't matter anyway as the unit broke and was run down... but sheesh. I know it's hard in the heat of things, but you can never nudge a model in the middle of a combat phase, much less one that you've just taken out as a casualty to put it back in...

I'm only catching the tail end of this one here but I'm looking forward to the final!

Im proud of the SW player for calling dash out on attacks with the beast master and knowing the leadership of the baron. Please win this one tony. Turn 6 might screw him

Well the SW player just shot a stunned razorback. General sloppiness on both sides.

Dash is making an extraordinary amount of flickerfield saves! Almost all his vehicles should probably be dead if not for those flickerfields.


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olympia wrote:Well the SW player just shot a stunned razorback. General sloppiness on both sides.

Can you really blame them? It's been 11 games in 3 days so far. Plus the partying/drinking afterwards.

jy2 wrote:Dash is making an extraordinary amount of flickerfield saves! Almost all his vehicles should probably be dead if not for those flickerfields.

They're both made huge number of saves, but Dash has had bad reserve rolls...

jy2 wrote:Dash is making an extraordinary amount of flickerfield saves! Almost all his vehicles should probably be dead if not for those flickerfields.


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olympia wrote:Well the SW player just shot a stunned razorback. General sloppiness on both sides.

Can you really blame them? It's been 11 games in 3 days so far. Plus the partying/drinking afterwards.

They're called status markers. Use them.

Go go Draigo Blackmoooooor

Tomb King wrote:Im proud of the SW player for calling dash out on attacks with the beast master and knowing the leadership of the baron.

OTOH, he is using Chain Lightning at the wrong phase...though, it probably doesn't matter.

Anouncers just said that Alan (Blackmoor) won his game. So whoever wins this one will be playing his paladin list in the final.

Ya, they are both messing up now. Trying to rush turn 6 in is hurting them both

Judges should not have allowed a turn 6. Sloppy play.

Tony won on secondary objective (killpoints) tied primary.

So Alan vs. Tony in the final!

Edit: I don't think the final turn made a difference on way or another- looks to be the same as things were in turn 5 as far as I can tell? Just different skimmers contesting objectives (unless Tony hadn't yet reached the one in the top left, but as he asked if Dash even wanted a 6th turn, I believe they were still tied on the objectives).

hahaha "you're not as bad as everyone says you are." Just what I like to hear at the end of a game from my opponent. Too damn funny.

olympia wrote:Judges should not have allowed a turn 6. Sloppy play.

Why exactly? They're running the tournament, both players agreed. What's wrong with it?

lol at dash moving to contest with a ravager that was immobolized. He still lost despite all the mistakes/cheating he pulled. Kharma is a $#%#$!

Both were making mistakes, Tomb King- as olympia says, it looks like markers would be a good idea after so many games in such a short time . It's like a marathon! And this is the home stretch...

I was impressed that Tony seemed to know the stats of a lot of Dash's units- for example the last unit that broke from combat, when if he hadn't known it looked like they'd keep it in. They were really rushed, though.

RiTides wrote:Both were making mistakes, Tomb King- as olympia says, it looks like markers would be a good idea after so many games in such a short time . It's like a marathon! And this is the home stretch...

I was impressed that Tony seemed to know the stats of a lot of Dash's units- for example the last unit that broke from combat, when if he hadn't known it looked like they'd keep it in. They were really rushed, though.

He immobolized the ravager on turn 5 with that nasty lightning then on turn 6 dash used it to contest an objective 24" away. That is a big mistake when it made the game go to secondary!

RiTides wrote:I was impressed that Tony seemed to know the stats of a lot of Dash's units- for example the last unit that broke from combat, when if he hadn't known it looked like they'd keep it in. They were really rushed, though.

It's good to know as much as you can about every army. It cuts down on shenanigans, that's for sure.

Damn I learned quite a lot from watching these two play. As someone who is probably at best an intermediate player, the way they used the cover and supported each insurgent move with another piece was very interesting. Hopefully people will talk about some of the good stuff that came out this game over the inevitable 'storm in a teacup' that is generated every time Dash plays.

olympia wrote:

jy2 wrote:Dash is making an extraordinary amount of flickerfield saves! Almost all his vehicles should probably be dead if not for those flickerfields.


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olympia wrote:Well the SW player just shot a stunned razorback. General sloppiness on both sides.

Can you really blame them? It's been 11 games in 3 days so far. Plus the partying/drinking afterwards.

They're called status markers. Use them.

Markers or not, people forget....especially when they're fatigued.

The space wolves player tony played a hell of a game and it was close. Ill admit I doubted him in the beginning but he impressed me down the stretch and that sq character with lightning was huge.

Two very good players who showed a very good display of 40k generalship. I enjoyed watched the amount of it that I did, yes there were a few mistakes here and there. But, nothing we can say about that as it is done and I'm sure we have all made mistakes while playing. Some more than others...But congrats to Tony, I wish i was there to play, regretting school more and more..

Yeah, Tempest sure was nasty and seemed as if Dash under-estimated it.

My money's on Tony's more balanced Space Wolves against Allan "Blackmoor's" deathstar paladin GK's. I just really can't see Allan beating an MSU-army in table quarters with such a slow army and so few units, especially an army run by such a great player as Tony.

Dash didn't know about the Chain lightning at all, he thought it was a psychic power. That is his big weakness, he just isn't a "reader type" who will memorize every codex inside out.

Ah, I remember the first time I ran up against the Tempest.

"It does WHAT now?"

Y'know this feed is a very cool thing, but the negative underbelly of people watching games and then assuming the players are cheating when they make mistakes (or even just criticizing players for making mistakes)...I'm sorry, but its just sad.

Let ye who have never made a mistake in a game of 40K cast the first stone...especially if you've played nearly a dozen games in 2 days and are playing under the pressure of a tournament clock & with such high stakes on the line.

Must be fatigue, Blackmoor's made a mistake already. Grand Strategy is supposed to be declared before deployment, not afterwards.

But heck, I make that mistake even when I'm fresh!

Monster Rain wrote:Ah, I remember the first time I ran up against the Tempest.

"It does WHAT now?"

So, speaking of Wolves, how are the Bearded Clams coming along?



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Say what you will about Dash, but he was a great sport during that game.
Yes, I know it was a single game...
...but he was a great sport for that one game.

If the cheating is THAT blatant, how come judges aren't calling people on it? Seems very odd that everyone else sees it but they don't live?

yakface wrote:
Y'know this feed is a very cool thing, but the negative underbelly of people watching games and then assuming the players are cheating when they make mistakes (or even just criticizing players for making mistakes)...I'm sorry, but its just sad.

Let ye who have never made a mistake in a game of 40K cast the first stone...especially if you've played nearly a dozen games in 2 days and are playing under the pressure of a tournament clock & with such high stakes on the line.

I have played at GT's as well. Just because your tired doesnt mean you can forget everything. Tony didnt forget where his units were or that his immobolized vehicle cant contest an objective on the last turn. That was the steak in the heart for dash on the cheating. That is too much for one player to forget in one game especially at the level they are at. I had no prior opinion of dash before watching this game and watching him take advantage of a nice player.

Blackmoor just pulled his patented bump the terrain and knock over all the enemy models maneuver. Although usually I'm on the receiving end of that when playing as his partner at Adepticon.

Gotta root for Blackmoor!

yakface wrote:
Y'know this feed is a very cool thing, but the negative underbelly of people watching games and then assuming the players are cheating when they make mistakes (or even just criticizing players for making mistakes)...I'm sorry, but its just sad.

Let ye who have never made a mistake in a game of 40K cast the first stone...especially if you've played nearly a dozen games in 2 days and are playing under the pressure of a tournament clock & with such high stakes on the line.

Yeah, there's alot of airmchair quarterbacking but at the same time you hold the #1 table at a major event with the #1 ranked 40k player vs the previous year's winner to a bit of a higher standard than a friendly pickup game (especially if the players know they're being televised). Dash is experienced enough in the game with several hundred tourny games under his belt using vehicle heavy armies (both his orks and DE are mech'ed) to know that having a way to record transport status and vehicle damage is a good idea, especially in a rushed tourney environment where you're under the clock.

I think the key here will be to see if any of the mistakes either player makes are detremental to their army from the video recap. If you've got an experienced player who makes frequent small or even big mistakes but they're always somehow to his advantage, a yellow flag should be raised. If the mistakes are both for/against the player, it's a heck of alot likely that it's due to fatigue.

In the end, I actually rather enjoyed watching/listening to the stream and hope that this type of reporting makes it to some of the other big tournies. Bravo to MVBrandt for setting this up!

Tomb King wrote:
I have played at GT's as well. Just because your tired doesnt mean you can forget everything. Tony didnt forget where his units were or that his immobolized vehicle cant contest an objective on the last turn. That was the steak in the heart for dash on the cheating. That is too much for one player to forget in one game especially at the level they are at. I had no prior opinion of dash before watching this game and watching him take advantage of a nice player.

Well, except Tony DID forget where his units were (Scouts) and used the Chain Lightning twice in the wrong phase and that's just what I watched, about half of the match. I'm sure that was not deliberate, and probably did not matter in the end, but in light of that, don't you think it's a little vindicative going on honking about Dash's mistakes everywhere (here AND the chat)?

Isn't it really more indicitive of the quality of "judging"? Supposed judges at their table and all around and no one's getting in trouble, being told no, being penalized, nothing?

As much as this Dash guy sounds like the biggest cheatbag in history, the tourney should be a bit ashamed at the leadership (or lack thereof) being presented.

Backfire wrote:I'm sure that was not deliberate, and probably did not matter in the end, but in light of that, don't you think it's a little vindicative going on honking about Dash's mistakes everywhere (here AND the chat)?

Having your wife and friend post that a previous opponent in the same tourney was a "dick", "cheater", and "douche" tends invite more scrutiny into your own actions, especially if you've got a rep for tourney drama.

Does Tempest carry over to Blackmoors turn? Tony got the power where the enemy moves in difficult terrain, but he got that on the bottom of turn 3 and said it would affect Blackmoor on the top of turn 4. Am I missing something somewhere?


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Tony just made 11/11 armor saves and about 23-28 over the last 2 turns. Yikes!


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Tony also had an immobile Rhino get a weapon destroyed and another immobilised, but said the Rhino was just a box and Blackmoor needed to shoot at it again. Does he have an extra stormbolter on those rhinos?

warboss wrote:
Having your wife and friend post that a previous opponent in the same tourney was a "dick", "cheater", and "douche" tends invite more scrutiny into your own actions, especially if you've got a rep for tourney drama.

Sure, but I find it hilarious that so much internets drama unfolds over the match which has almost no actual on-game drama and neither player seemed to have any beef over the end result.

In unrelated news, I want that guys Power armour. It seems much better than my Deathwing's Terminator armour.

Backfire wrote:In unrelated news, I want that guys Power armour. It seems much better than my Deathwing's Terminator armour.

Not watching this round (need to finish some work) but sounds like it's some artificer quality armor there. My space hulk deathwing force tends to fail 1/3-1/2 their 2+ saves using those marbled space hulk dice... they look pretty but they're apparently weighted by GW the wrong way! :(

Walls wrote:As much as this Dash guy sounds like the biggest cheatbag in history, the tourney should be a bit ashamed at the leadership (or lack thereof) being presented.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, that's way too far. Pointing out that someone makes a mistake in a game when they've played all weekend is one thing. Saying they're "cheating" (or going even farther, as you did) is way too much to draw from it. I was going to disagree with what yakface said, but in light of this comment, I see where he's coming from.

For example, you point out that he moved an immobilized Ravager to contest- but I believe Tony immobilized it with Chain Lightning in the wrong phase! (I could be wrong- but I think you see where I'm coming from)


Back on topic:

I was out and just got back and the final match is already over half over! Argh :-/

Like warboss said above, major props to MVBrandt for doing this... it's really, really cool!!!

warboss wrote:

Backfire wrote:I'm sure that was not deliberate, and probably did not matter in the end, but in light of that, don't you think it's a little vindicative going on honking about Dash's mistakes everywhere (here AND the chat)?

Having your wife and friend post that a previous opponent in the same tourney was a "dick", "cheater", and "douche" tends invite more scrutiny into your own actions, especially if you've got a rep for tourney drama.

QFT.

A reputation, regardless of it being right or wrong is still a reputation. When one has a bad reputation, it is difficult to remove it. When one is perceived to be a WAAC, then names of certain individuals will pop up.

Since I have never played nor talked too Dash in person, I can not cast that proverbial stone at him. So my slate is clean with him and I'm willing to play a causal game with the man ever a possibility arises.

Blackmoor failed a charge because Tony said Njalls Lord of Tempest power, rolled for on the bottom of turn 3, was still in effect on the top of turn 4. I had always thought Njalls Lord of Tempest power did not carry over to the next turn and that neutered him if he goes second. Has there been a change somewhere? I checked the GW faq and didn't see anything. Blackmoor asked about it and Tony insisted.

So, what is that status of the last game? I can't get the chat to work so my only status updates are in here, besides what I can see (and not playing 40k for several years now, that's not much ).

Who's winning? (It's currently turn 4, they seem to be playing quite fast... which makes sense with a small GK army)

Both players made mistakes...people make mistakes all the time. I agree with yak that it's pretty unfair to assume people are cheating.

I do think this is more an example of the open question (and previous long dakka discussion) about "what are judges for?" Is it their job to judge rules disagreements, line of sight disagreements, etc...or is it their job to closely monitor what unit is what, transports, what is immobilized, etc? I've never played in a tournament where the judge did something that extreme. I kind of doubt that the judge would ever call out in these games "no you can't move that, it's immobilized" but I may be wrong. A lot of people are saying "it's not cheating, otherwise the judge would call it!" but I don't think that's always the case.


I make mistakes pretty often under serious time pressure:

Moving or letting an opponent move an immobilized unit if it is unmarked

Using powers slightly out of sequence (beginning of turn vs beginning of movement phase, for example)

Trying to shoot with a unit that has already shot in a turn, or shooting with a stunned/shaken unit.

Forgetting what units are in which transport.

And these are just the mistakes I make that give me an advantage, obviously I make many more that just hurt me. Forgetting to do things entirely (hello, stormcaller, a spell I always take but hardly ever cast) is a pretty common one as well.

Because of these things I go out of my way in tournaments to prevent these things from happening. I put dudes on top of vehicles to indicate their squad is in there. I try to always use tokens. I try to keep a list of "things I need to remember" for turn-sequence abilities.

I hope that what comes out of having this live feed and so many people watching it or watching the recordings is a real discussion of what people should be expected to do to keep track of what is going on in a game, with no accusations of cheating - just getting the general tournament etiquette and expectation to perhaps include things like tokens and counters by default.


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I have to say I'm enjoying getting to see Blackmoor's GK in action here, I was hoping he'd win to get to this table just to see it play.

DarthDiggler wrote:Blackmoor failed a charge because Tony said Njalls Lord of Tempest power, rolled for on the bottom of turn 3, was still in effect on the top of turn 4. I had always thought Njalls Lord of Tempest power did not carry over to the next turn and that neutered him if he goes second. Has there been a change somewhere? I checked the GW faq and didn't see anything. Blackmoor asked about it and Tony insisted.

You are absolutely right. The SW faq flat out tells you that if you go 2nd, his stuff doesn't work. Tony pulled a fast one there ><

DarthDiggler wrote:Blackmoor failed a charge because Tony said Njalls Lord of Tempest power, rolled for on the bottom of turn 3, was still in effect on the top of turn 4. I had always thought Njalls Lord of Tempest power did not carry over to the next turn and that neutered him if he goes second. Has there been a change somewhere? I checked the GW faq and didn't see anything. Blackmoor asked about it and Tony insisted.

It lasts for 1 game turn unless otherwise specified. From the SW codex, p. 53:

"Refer to the table opposite for the Tempest's effects that game turn."


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Oh, I see what you mean now. Since Blackmoor went first, Tempest is supposed stop after the end of the SW turn, which is also the end of that game turn.

Appears to be a mistake on Tony's part. Doesn't look as if he's aware of it.

jy2 wrote:

DarthDiggler wrote:Blackmoor failed a charge because Tony said Njalls Lord of Tempest power, rolled for on the bottom of turn 3, was still in effect on the top of turn 4. I had always thought Njalls Lord of Tempest power did not carry over to the next turn and that neutered him if he goes second. Has there been a change somewhere? I checked the GW faq and didn't see anything. Blackmoor asked about it and Tony insisted.

It lasts for 1 game turn unless otherwise specified. From the SW codex, p. 53:

"Refer to the table opposite for the Tempest's effects that game turn."

That's not the way Tony insisted it worked and he got his way. Someone said MVB might have changed that rule for this tourney. Is that true?

From the FAQ:

Q. How do Njal Stormcallerʼs Driving Gale and Living
Hurricane effects work if the Space Wolves player is the
player going second? (p53)
A. These two abilities have no real effect in games where
the Space Wolves player is going second – the tempest is
yet to rage.

So I cant tell, is it over?


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Am I watching a rerun?