If you've got time to post on Dakka, you should respond to the emails I've been sending you for the last week.

Good communication is vital to a business.

It appears I am not the only one "The Drop Zone" fails to reply to.

I sent two emails last week to Robert, without any reply. Both were asking him when my stuff would get in, and when he'd send out. Finally I sent him a pm and got a reply - saying my stuff would get in Wednesday.

I replied asking him when my stuff came in would he please email or pm me and tell me when he'd send out and to toss me a confirmation number. He stated it would come in Wednesday - I haven't gotten a reply since (it's now Friday).

Unfortunately, Robert offers the best price and the opportunity to use money orders, so he's the most convenient for me.

It looks like i'll be using Neal at the warstore more. He appears to allow USPS postal orders, and he says he'll match any price given by a rival site. I recommend you look to that end too Iorek.

Chuck

Well, I see you're still making posts here.  Why don't you email me about my missing order?  Or is this whole "business" thing a scam?

You ask too much Lorek.

I've raised a Paypal complaint! I bought the Dark Angels army set, and I'm in the same position...no replies, and no Army! I'm beginning to think the guy is a rip off....and if Paypal can't sort this, then my Credit card company will!

Paypal should be able to straighten everything out.

GOOOO LOREK!

Wow, seems a lot more than one or two people are having problems with "The Drop Zone". Eeek! I really hope you guys get your orders straightened out and/or Robert posts here and provides some explanation. Communication is indeed vital. This does not bode well, especially in a market saturated with e-retailers that give 24 hour responses to similar inquiries...

Drop-zone! Come out to Plaaaayyy! [/warriors]

I have no idea what Robert's deal is. His shipping seems pretty hit or miss. Some swear by him and others seem to be getting absolutely screwed. Failure to ship is becoming much more than a simple hiccup with Robert. Maybe Neil's hijacking his trucks or something.

Neal from the warstore ate Roberts babies!

Does that make Neal a dingo?

Posted By Flagg07 on 03/04/2007 11:42 AM
Does that make Neal a dingo?

Doesn't make Neal a dingo, but it sure makes Rob a thief ( if everyones, mine included, fears are founded! ). What really bites me, is that when Rob advertised his "deal" on the Dark Angels army I jumped at it, but didn't have the cash right away! Anyway, he quite literally hounded me to pay up because his alleged allocated stock was now running low! So I ponyed up the $$ and now theres nothing!

All I know is, if enough people get ripped off by this guy then theres also a strong case for internet fraud!!

Look what I found:

The Drop Zone
3700 Avenue of the Carolinas suite HH
Ft Mill SC 29708
email : thedropzoneonline@gmail.com
my website (when its finished) www.dropzoneonline.ecrater.com
Store phone 803-802-5280

Phone doesn't seem to work, though.

Bobby's discount doesn't seem to be worth ther hassle of waiting. Looks like TDZ has some serious customer service to take care of.

@Iorek- Any chance of adding a poll of online retailers people would buy their 40k stuff from? TDZ, Warstore, BWB to name a few

Lorek, SC and FL are pretty damn close, at least from where I'm sitting. You could make a straight run through Georgia and the two of you could sit down for a nice little chat.

Yeah, if you make the trip perhaps you could grab my Dark Angels army as well!!!!!

bring back pictures!

Seriously, I'm just surprised that someone who posts so vociferously as DZ isn't stepping up to defend himself/get in touch with the llorek etc.

Posted By syr8766 on 03/04/2007 2:46 PM


Seriously, I'm just surprised that someone who posts so vociferously as DZ isn't stepping up to defend himself/get in touch with the llorek etc.

Its probably a case of NO defence! I still haven't heard a peep and to be honest, I don't expect to hear anything....plus, who wants to hear lies and empty promises....

Still awaiting some semblance of contact...

Chuck

Posted By Flagg07 on 03/04/2007 1:29 PM
@Iorek- Any chance of adding a poll of online retailers people would buy their 40k stuff from? TDZ, Warstore, BWB to name a few

Well, this is the first retailer I've had problems with.  I've only used the Warstore before (for online stuff); everything else is local game shops.  This guy had been getting good comments up until now, so I figured I'd give him a try.

Lesson learned, right?

Ancient Society (the user) started a thread on this topic a few weeks back in news and rumors; do a search, and you'll be able to find it.  Several different sites listed there.

Clover is the town with "Love" in the middle.

This number works: 704-236-4329

I just got his voice mail - i'll be trying again later.

Chuck

His cell phone number, well one of them. I will see if I can find his other number for you. I am almost positive there is another one, because in my last order, he gave me a different one, I am fairly certain.

704-236-4329

[edit]
lol I was looking through my old PM's for robert's ccell number and chucky beat me to it.

Yep, I've got that number too (and left a message on it last week).

Stupid Chaos Warhounds.

Posted By Iorek on 03/04/2007 9:12 PM

Stupid Chaos Warhounds.

I'd hardly call a unit that you can use in both your 40k and Fantasy armies stupid.

Oh!  I'm only calling them stupid 'cause I wish I had them already.  Yeah, they rock in a Lost and the Damned army.

Had my share of problems with DZ, but I went into dealing with him having been fore-warned by a friend not to expect to get my stuff right away. I can't say I've been ripped off by Robert though, as he lets me pay him after receiving my orders. A show of good faith, to be sure

That said, I'm still waiting on an order from close to a month back, and the man has to be reminded every so often of my order amongst all the rest he's juggling. For a while the only way I was able to reach him was through the chat / IM feature of gmail - which involves a lot of luck, catching him when we were both on - but he's been ok at returning e-mails of late. Hopefully my stuff arrives today though, as I really need that boltgun metal I ordered a month ago O_O

- Boss Salvage

No way to run a business.

I'd guess that he has bad cashflow, and isn't ordering product from GW ahead of time, only after he has an order. That makes for some delays. It gets worse if his cashflow is bad, and he is waiting for cash to come in from one order, to pay for another.

When you are juggling orders like that, you start dropping the balls.

Well, I caught him on Google Chat just now, and he said that he's running way behind.  Hopefully we'll all get our stuff soon.

Posted By mikhaila on 03/05/2007 6:52 AM

No way to run a business.

I'd guess that he has bad cashflow, and isn't ordering product from GW ahead of time, only after he has an order. That makes for some delays. It gets worse if his cashflow is bad, and he is waiting for cash to come in from one order, to pay for another.

When you are juggling orders like that, you start dropping the balls.

Even so, as a paying customer, I don't mind the odd excuse, but when I get ignored and lied to, well....thats a whole different matter. I have paypal running things for me now, so we'll see if Mr Drop Zone rather enjoys dealing with them the his customer. I would have rather have got the goods, but right now, getting my money back is a close second best option!

Edited to sound less like a spoilt little kid.

Chuck

It behooves you to resolve the issue personally rather than through paypal.

I have been there it sucks.

it isnt quick, and you lose aound $30 for the honor of paypal doing the stiff arm.

Sometimes there isnt any other option, but really that should be the last resort.

but I am sure you will find out all of that soon enough.

Posted By Hellfury on 03/05/2007 2:02 PM
It behooves you to resolve the issue personally rather than through paypal.

I have been there it sucks.

it isnt quick, and you lose aound $30 for the honor of paypal doing the stiff arm.

Sometimes there isnt any other option, but really that should be the last resort.

but I am sure you will find out all of that soon enough.

Perhaps you're right. However, here are the facts! I live in England, via recommendation I shopped with this guy, who was extremely enthusiastic to get my money. So far I have nothing to show for my "misdeed"...solve it personally? and how should I do that? send him emails? well, I tried that, and guess what....he don't play!! So perhaps I could buy a plane ticket and fly over to the States....yeah, that would offset the, how much did you say $30.....hmmm

Trust me when I say that I always use the Paypal claims service as a last resort, but its also the first resort if somthing goes wrong, afterall thats why we use paypal...why have a dog and bark yourself?

Whoah hey sorry. Not trying to rain on your parade or anything.

Ill shut up now so this thread can continue to be unconstructive.

As you were.

Dude, I'm not trying to escalate a flame war! The best this thread could possibly do at this stage would be one of two things 1) Alert Robert to whats going on and hopefully get him to pull his finger out and start doing what he promised to do! 2) Alert other members to steer clear of Drop Zone until things are sorted or Robert changes his business practices!!

Theres not much else that can be achieved in my opinion. I'm out $198....so you may feel I'm being unfair with my comments, but I'm not going to sit back and let someone walk away with that kind of money, would you!?

Posted By Delephont on 03/05/2007 3:13 PM

Dude, I'm not trying to escalate a flame war!

Well maybe I am!  I ordered absolutely nothing from the Drop Zone, and I still haven't received my order!  This is outrageous!

As someone mentioned, I started a thread about alternate e-tailers a few weeks back, though that was after a problem with TheWarStore.

After that i was in the market for others and enquired about TDZ. I can't say it made me feel confident about his customer service.

Although i have placed orders since then at other sites, and I think I'll update my other thread to reflect that.

About $120 for me - and I need the stuff I ordered for a tourney on the 17th.

Sooner or later I'm sure posts like this will alienate all Dakka Dakka retail sponsors.

Places like BWB and the warstore and the drop zone are assets to the gaming community and while it may be hard to realize - they are run by actual humans that make actual mistakes.

Posted By blood angel on 03/05/2007 7:19 PM
Sooner or later I'm sure posts like this will alienate all Dakka Dakka retail sponsors.

Places like BWB and the warstore and the drop zone are assets to the gaming community and while it may be hard to realize - they are run by actual humans that make actual mistakes.

I beg to differ. Issues with TDZ have been brought up in the past (mostly on Bartertown) and, when I (or others) have felt that the accusations were baseless or flaming, i was more than happy to help defend TDZ. However, he's proved time and again that his customer service is lousy, also his responses to Bad Trade Reports has recently gotten him suspended for 2 weeks from BT.

If an e-tailer rips off his customers, or provides horrible customer service, or is rude/lies/etc., is that really the type of advertiser you want for your site? My guess would be a resounding "no". It not only makes the sponsored site look bad, it makes that site's members feel less secure and less prone to visit and be part of the community.

I realize this is the internet and people whine, especially on dakka. I can't help but think that if people spent the time trying communicate their displeasure to these retailers/shops/whatever instead of trying to essentially flame them here that their problems would already be resolved.

I've personally made multiple orders from almost every retailer in question here. 95% of the time it goes smooth. The other 5% has been resolved through communication and have always been handled to satisfaction. Fairly quickly as well.

AS, I am not referring to you specifically either. I'm more just talking in general.

Nice try, shill.  I've done nothing but lay out exactly what happened to me; all I asked for was contact from the retailer.  Not instant product, not a refund.  Contact.  I've left email messages and phone messages, and I finally lucked into catching him on Google chat.  I DID spend time, over a week, trying for this.  Dakka was the last resort.

Next time, try reading the entire thread before mouthing off.

Get defensive much? You are relating your side of your personal experience and I am relating mine.

Doesn't matter to me if you try to pop off to me either.. It won't help you get your crap, heh.

I was clearly just talking to you, right?

Posted By blood angel on 03/05/2007 8:25 PM
I realize this is the internet and people whine, especially on dakka. I can't help but think that if people spent the time trying communicate their displeasure to these retailers/shops/whatever instead of trying to essentially flame them here that their problems would already be resolved.

Wow, this is EXACTLY what Iorek and the rest did! In fact, they've spent over a week trying to contact the e-tailer and let their feelings be known and this post is a last resort!

Now, what was your point exactly?

Oh yes, how people "whine" on Dakka......pot meet kettle

My point is that people trying to get on message boards like this and waving their e-peen around against a business is lame.

Iorek seems to have a valid complaint - but really - getting on here and seeing weekly posts that bash retailers is dumb. I understand it's easier to post here than it is to handle your business privately but if you start to completely alienate discount retailers then they won't exists any more.

That's bad for the community in general.

Posted By blood angel on 03/05/2007 9:48 PM
My point is that people trying to get on message boards like this and waving their e-peen around against a business is lame.

Iorek seems to have a valid complaint - but really - getting on here and seeing weekly posts that bash retailers is dumb. I understand it's easier to post here than it is to handle your business privately but if you start to completely alienate discount retailers then they won't exists any more.

That's bad for the community in general.

Weekly posts bashing retailers? What? Hyperbole much? Just where are these "weekly" retailer bashing threads? Get a grip. You say you have read the thread yet you then spout completely uncalled for accusations that "it's easier to post here than it is to handle your business privately". Yet strangely enough everyone that's had an issue with TDZ has stated that they *did* repeatedly attempt to contact (privately) TDZ, be it by phone, email or IM. Not only did they try to contact him, for some it was over several WEEKS with no response.

I could understand some delays, a day or two, but if it's been 3+ weeks and you've had my money, haven't sent me my purchase AND refuse to reply to my attempts to contact you (and yet somehow have the time to post on the very forum some of your customers are at), well, yeah, I'm going to let people know something is up while taking appropriate action (like getting the charges reversed).

Would you prefer it go unsaid and a bad retailer continue to do business and scam people out of their hard earned money? Even if it never happened to you it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Your argument is like someone saying people never get killed in car accidents because you drive your car every day and you're alive. I for one am glad for this post as I had heard of some issues with The Drop Zone but I had no idea they were so widespread. Word of mouth can make or break a company and too bad Robert wasn't professional enough to meet his obligations, but them's the breaks.

Posted By blood angel on 03/05/2007 9:48 PM
My point is that people trying to get on message boards like this and waving their e-peen around against a business is lame.

Iorek seems to have a valid complaint - but really - getting on here and seeing weekly posts that bash retailers is dumb. I understand it's easier to post here than it is to handle your business privately but if you start to completely alienate discount retailers then they won't exists any more.

That's bad for the community in general.

Perhaps you need to look at the bigger picture. Whether you're a discount dealer, or a high street main retailer your duties to your customer remain the same. You take money, you give product...its not rocket science. Your insistance that threads like this are damaging is rubbish! I for one am extremely thankful to Iorek for starting this thread, cause up until seeing this I thought I was on my own, was quite prepared to "battle on in silence". Since seeing this thread I realise how important it is as a community to stick together and let each other know whats good and bad out there!

Theives and cheats will rely upon silence, in the same way good firms will rely on word of mouth. No one is saying Robert isn't human and can't make a mistake, in fact the mark of a good business is how it rectifys its mistakes! Robert isn't owning up to a mistake and he isn't rectifying it either...so here we are! You call this whinning, I call it reporting. Every member who sees this thread will now HAVE to reconsider dealing with Drop Zone, if that gets him off the market, great...no more ripoff, if it gets him to improve his service, again great..no more ripoff.....so in the end a win win for the community don't you think?

Now, unless you are actually Robert in disguise, trying lamely to defend yourself, well then I can understand your comments. However, I'm guessing you're just shooting from the hip.....which is easy to do when your money is safe. If you belive in the "RIGHT OF THE DISCOUNT TRADERs"...well, go ahead....put your money where your mouth is and order something to the tune of $200 from Drop Zone....its not too hard, that way you can stand there and spout off to your hearts content. Yeah, but I'm guessing you won't do that, you'll be content to flame cause its "fun" and your point is essentially empty. Anything more to add?......

....nah, didn't think so!

I have ordered 100s of dollars worth of items from several of the online retailers represented on Dakka - including TDZ.

But nice try, heh.

Posted By blood angel on 03/05/2007 11:19 PM
I have ordered 100s of dollars worth of items from several of the online retailers represented on Dakka - including TDZ.

But nice try, heh.

Of course you did. And everything worked out just ducky for you, didn't it?

And you're not trying to flame anyone, no one at all, right? Not a defensive bone in your body. That's why you keep posting...

Enough. You have your position, and that's fine, but other people have theirs. Kindly stop shoving yours down their throats. Go have an argument about whether Terminators wear terminator armor or something.

I like receiving the general information about online retailers. Would have saved me
9 months of no product (New Wave).

Posted By blood angel on 03/05/2007 7:19 PM
Sooner or later I'm sure posts like this will alienate all Dakka Dakka retail sponsors.

Places like BWB and the warstore and the drop zone are assets to the gaming community and while it may be hard to realize - they are run by actual humans that make actual mistakes.

They're only assets if they meet their customers' needs.

People like Blue Table give customer discounts for testimonials to
sell their wares on webforums, so it's only fair for actual customers to
give another side to the story.

Now if people start posting about sales that never happened...well,
that's trolling. It's very similar to telling other people their posts are stupid.

First off, whoever suggested Blood angel is a shill might be correct, though I certianly hope not. He's clearly some form of troll.

For those who might be concerned that bashing the e-tailers who advertise on dakka is bad, here's my take:

1) advertisers are great, they support Dakka financially in a way that most of the posters and hardly any lukers do.

2) That said, what keeps dakka going isn't bandwidth, it's posters. What keeps readers and members coming back is the ability to get information, opinion, news, etc. Knowing what's going on with the various retailers is a vital part of that. For those too new to remember, there was a giant retailer named New Wave that was notorious for never shipping, delays, outright fraud, etc. Thanks in large part to the forums, people stopped shopping there.

I'm not accusing Drop Zone of being the next New Wave. I'm guessing he's fallen a little behind, (some combination of staff quitting, his kid being sick, and he has to go to court, for a hypothetical example.) His 1 or 2 man business simply can't operate, so stuff falls between the cracks.

What the folks on Dakka want is simply an email: "hey, I can't get your stuff out for two weeks. I can either refund your money or ship it when I can."

As for the comparisions to BWB or the War Store, those were businesses that generally had a pretty good rep before complaints were aired. Drop Zone is still relatively new, and I think that it's important for people to be aware of who they're doing business with.

Okay, constructive Criticism/suggestion time:

Hey Russ and/or Mann (Gonads, Marcus, Yakface, etc.):

How about we create a new section of the boards devoted to recommendations and product reviews? Or at least stickied threads (in discussions maybe)? TMP does this to good effect; it's a way for people to say "Hey I liked using New Wave" or "Neal at The Warstore ate my baby" in a specific place without it turning into a flame war. Likewise with various figures, rules etc. I know it means more bandwidth, but if it helps organize things better...  

Posted By blood angel on 03/05/2007 9:48 PM
... getting on here and seeing weekly posts that bash retailers is dumb. I understand it's easier to post here than it is to handle your business privately but if you start to completely alienate discount retailers then they won't exists any more.

That's bad for the community in general.

Have to disagree there.

I think one of the pros of a community like this is the ability to share news on deadbeats.

I am quite glad I can make am informed decision before choosing a online retailer.

It may seem like there are weekly threads - and I have noticed more of them lately, But I think that's likely because Dakka-itess have been having problems with e-tailers recently, and maybe in the past those problems happend with people who weren't members here.



Here's a funny line of thought;

If You pay e-tailer
and if e-tailer blows you off
and if e-tailer advertises on dakka
therefore you pay for dakka without any DCM benefits.

Would some sort of form would be helpful?

e-tailer:
Date ordered:
Date received:
What Incentives made you shop there (discount, free shipping, customer service, etc.):
How would you rate your experience (1-5, 5 being the best)?
Would you use this e-tailer again (Yes, no)?
Comments:

Or would a poll be easier?

A poll would be awful.

Why not just start threads in Buy/Sell?

I'd like to see stickies somewhere, and the Buy/Sell forum would be appropriate (maybe even a subforum?).  Good idea, Hellfury.

I mean, Malfred.

Absolutely, an area to do with feedback would be good...it doesn't need to be restricted to e-tailers, it could also cover members who trade as well!

If anyone wishes to see a good format for this check out this forum:

www.onesixthwarriors.com

and go to the "Shop and Trade" section! I have made many decisions to deal or not deal based on this information!

Ok folks, heres a quick update for those that are interested. This is, to me , conclusive evidence that Robert is a liar and quite possibly a cheat!

When I originally asked him via email to confirm the shipping of my item he came back to me with a tracking number CP202353584US , when I tried this tracking number with th emost obvious delivery agents, Royal Mail, International Parcel Force, and USPS they all came back with an unknown tracking number response. Thats when I knew something was wrong!

Anyway, as some of you will know, I raised a complaint with Paypal, and ( I guess to buy himself more time ) his reponse to the paypal investigation was a tracking number and the delivery agent! The agent he listed was USPS and the number CP217402785US

Well, trying this "new" tracking number with USPS, and surprise surprise, USPS has never heard of it!

So not only did he originally lie about sending the item in the first place and giving me a bogus tracking number, he tries to lie a second time, and by contradicting the original number!!! Is this guy an idiot or what? does he think I won't check with the original information? or with USPS for that matter? As far as I'm concerned Paypal or my Credit Card company can bury this clown.....

And for anyone in doubt, I have a copy of his original mail and the response to Paypal....STEER CLEAR of DZ!

I'm trying to call him tonight.

Chuck

Well, we seem to have gotten rid of the Shill at least.

I said my piece and it spawned some element of constructiveness. Another section of the board where people can post their complaints and praises about their purchases on the net would be nice.

This thread is unprofessional and has no place on a forum such as Dakka Dakka. Basically it comes across as a bunch of thugs harrassing someone.

- Greenie

Posted By Delephont on 03/06/2007 2:23 PM
Ok folks, heres a quick update for those that are interested. This is, to me , conclusive evidence that Robert is a liar and quite possibly a cheat!

When I originally asked him via email to confirm the shipping of my item he came back to me with a tracking number CP202353584US , when I tried this tracking number with th emost obvious delivery agents, Royal Mail, International Parcel Force, and USPS they all came back with an unknown tracking number response. Thats when I knew something was wrong!

Anyway, as some of you will know, I raised a complaint with Paypal, and ( I guess to buy himself more time ) his reponse to the paypal investigation was a tracking number and the delivery agent! The agent he listed was USPS and the number CP217402785US

Well, trying this "new" tracking number with USPS, and surprise surprise, USPS has never heard of it!

So not only did he originally lie about sending the item in the first place and giving me a bogus tracking number, he tries to lie a second time, and by contradicting the original number!!! Is this guy an idiot or what? does he think I won't check with the original information? or with USPS for that matter? As far as I'm concerned Paypal or my Credit Card company can bury this clown.....

And for anyone in doubt, I have a copy of his original mail and the response to Paypal....STEER CLEAR of DZ!

Not that this is true, but had a similar problem with robert as well.

But it was because it does take 24 - 48 hours for the code to be registered by USPS for anything to pop up.

If  it has been sent very recently, then they wont have any record of that, if it has been sent, say for instance, last week, then they should have record of it.

Not saying you or him are lying, but there are other facts such as dates that do need to be considered for the tracking code.

Posted By Green Bloater on 03/06/2007 7:09 PM
This thread is unprofessional and has no place on a forum such as Dakka Dakka. Basically it comes across as a bunch of thugs harrassing someone.

- Greenie

And here's the proof!

Posted By Green Bloater on 03/06/2007 7:09 PM
This thread is unprofessional and has no place on a forum such as Dakka Dakka. Basically it comes across as a bunch of thugs harrassing someone.

- Greenie

Quite the contrary. The thug is the etailer in question. He advertises on Dakka, posts a lot in Dakka threads, pitches his wares on Dakka, and yet can't seem to ship the items to the customers on Dakka that order from him. He is ignoring attempts to contact him, yet has time to post in threads.

The Thug is the person who took peoples money, the victims are the people that trusted him, and have nothing to show for their money.

The person being unprofessional is the one who sells games as a profession, takes the money, and doesn't ship the product, or reply to customer concerns.
Of course this belongs on Dakka, unless you think it's OK for Robert to use Dakka to sell, but customers can't use it to warn other people about his business practices?

I'd like to add my voice to people having problems with TDZ.

He did eventually make it right, but not before the items I was supposed to be getting were sent to the wrong address twice, and returned to him, and I had to spend well over 3 weeks trying to track him down. I got what may or may not have been a sob story about his father in law being in the hospital, which was why there had been so many mistakes.

I did finally receive my stuff, but I would not recommend TDZ to anyone else.

Posted By BZArcher on 03/06/2007 7:51 PM
I got what may or may not have been a sob story about his father in law being in the hospital, which was why there had been so many mistakes.

For what it's worth, there is a note on his website at the moment that says that he's had a death in the family...

Posted By Green Bloater on 03/06/2007 7:09 PM
I'm a troll

Fixed your typo.

Posted By Green Bloater on 03/06/2007 7:09 PM
This thread is unprofessional and has no place on a forum such as Dakka Dakka. Basically it comes across as a bunch of thugs harrassing someone.

- Greenie

You Sir, are a joke.

Uh, CP202353584US is NOT a USPS #.

USPS Delivery Confirmation never has letters in it. It's also a much longer number split into sections of 4 numbers. I'm fairly sure the only "tracking" code that the USPS uses that has any form of letters is a customs slip. It also isn't a UPS number since a UPS # would be much longer as well.

I hope everyone gets their problems resolved with TDZ.

For the record, I ordered over the telephone from Neal at the Warstore on Tuesday, February 27, 2007 and received my order on Tuesday, March 6, 2007 (seven days). My order was 100% correct and I experienced no billing problems. Customer service was great.

I agree with Trolly to some extent. I don't feel it is appropriate to post someone's personal contact information so openly - even if it appears they have wronged you. I think it would have been better to share that information with other people via PM or e-mail, but not here. I understand the frustration and the desire to help one another, but posting the offical contact numbers publicly would have been the best thing to do.

I would like to praise Manahannin for having the stones to keep this thread open. Some boards wouldn't have allowed any criticizm of an advertisor occur - whether is was deserved or not. Thanks, Man.

Hopefully TDZ will have the opportunity to clear his name. It looks like he has an uphill battle and he does deserve that chance.

Thanks Furious (though just as much credit goes to Yakface and the others, of course). We tend to value free exchange of ideas and information quite a bit around here, though we do want people to TRY being polite and keeping their language at a PG level. Keep it constructive.

I'm sorry this is happening, and I hope nothing awful has happened in Robert's life, but the core complaint is one I have to agree with. If you're running a business and have time to post on forums but not to respond to customer emails, that's something I can't see an excuse for.

The thing is, if he sends out in the next day or two that's fine. I just NEED the miniatures. I'm in a 1500pt tournament on the 17th of this month, and I need the minis for it. Luckily they're necrons so they can be assembled and painted in a day or two, but I'm not REALLY in the mood for last-minute-painting.

Chuck

Edited to sound less like a spoilt little kid.

Chuck

Well at least I am Sir Joke.



But seriously I think this has gone way too far. I think anyone reading the thread would hesitate to purchase anything at all from him.

- Greenie

Posted By Green Bloater on 03/07/2007 7:03 PM

But seriously I think this has gone way too far. I think anyone reading the thread would hesitate to purchase anything at all from him.

Good.

Boy, I thought Internet Detectives only existed in SA. I'll be sure not to piss any of you guys off.

Anyway, good luck with TDZ, chuck.

I wouldn't be quite so pissed off if he admitted he had a problem, and stopped taking people's money. As it stands, he's like an alcoholic who won't admit he has a problem, and keeps missing his kids little league games.

NOT ACCEPTABLE.

Chuck

Lets face it guys....This thread has been running for a while now, we know that slow has been on here posting in threads and leaving comments elsewhere! You'd have to be blind not to see a thread dedicated to your name sake.

He has had ample chance to respond to each of us either by PM or by email or even here on the thread. I have been careful thus far not to label this character a crook and a liar, but its plain to see what type of person this guy is.

I will persue what-ever legal means availible to bury this clown.

Agreed. I'm giving him a little more time, but i'm getting more sick of no contact and no miniatures every day.

Caveat Emptor baby...

Hurrah!

"I was out of the store attending my grandmothers funeral. I am now back in the store and will get all orders shipped out by friday i apologise for the delay."

Posted last night on his website.

Chuck

Hi Chuck

I hate to dampen your hope, but please think back to my "ongoing" paypal dispute. According to his response to the investigation he already sent my stuff, not to mention the email I recieved two weeks ago stating he'd sent my stuff!

Wow, so I guess he's going to send it again?!?! Maybe he sends the stuff out on a rubber band, and just as the delivery guy goes to post it through the letter box...BLAM...back it goes....

Hah, I hope not. I've repeatedly asked for a confirmation number, or even any email stating he's sent...nothing so far.

Today I called Robert's store, The Drop Zone. Luckily, i got him straight away.

He said my stuff was sent yesterday afternoon, and he gave me a confirmation number. While the number doesn't give anything (there is no information regardnig this number or something similar on USPS) the lady told me that it IS the confirmation number for SOME package.

Either way, it should be here Tuesday or Wednesday. Hopefully everything will work out.

Chuck

Dude, good luck and I wish you all the best.........if at least one of gets their goods than thats a good start!

I sent a few trades out yesterday too. All of their tracking #'s say something.

1) Your item was delivered at 11:24 AM on March 10, 2007 in TRENTON, NJ 08690.

2) Your item was processed and left our JERSEY CITY, NJ 07097 facility on March 9, 2007. Information, if available, is updated every evening. Please check again later.

I would think that there'd be something similar if it did go out yesterday. Hopefully this isn't something to shut you up for a week or so. Keep us informed. I'm very interested in how this all plays out.

Yeah, in my experience they've said something too. However, a few things leave me with a glimmer of hope.

1) He might do his own postage, then do drop offs. He must do a ton of trades, so its likely he has the "print out at home and drop at PO". I've no experience with that, but it may mean that the normal info doesn't get updated on the delivery confirmation thing.

2) I called USPS tracking service, and they said that it was indeed a valid number for a package, and sometimes no info at all comes up.

I dunno. I'll wait till Thursday of next week to start worrying.

Chuck

just curious but does anyone know how this has effected the raffle that drop zone was carrying out for a DA box set? i know a few folks paid for tickets and was wondering what has happened to that raffle in light of this little issue!
cheers
millest

My guess would be that the raffle is subject to the same level of deceit as the rest of Dear Roberts dealings.....my guess is that everyoe who bought a raffle ticket simply hasn't won!

He did list a winner on Bartertown, though he has failed to post the proof of the proceeds actually going to a charity. This is probably due to his account there being banned for 2 weeks. His "friend has posted a lengthy list of reasons why people haven't gotten their orders over the psat few months, the big ones being death of family member last week (no impact on month old orders) and that his GW supplier was in the hospital and the guy that took his place screwed everything up. The only thing he forgot was that the dog ate it....

Posted By Flagg07 on 03/11/2007 3:30 PM
 and that his GW supplier was in the hospital and the guy that took his place screwed everything up. The only thing he forgot was that the dog ate it....

Really? Wow, that's so interesting, since I have the same rep as he does, and he hasn't been in the hospital.

Posted By mikhaila on 03/11/2007 5:15 PM

Posted By Flagg07 on 03/11/2007 3:30 PM
 and that his GW supplier was in the hospital and the guy that took his place screwed everything up. The only thing he forgot was that the dog ate it....

Really? Wow, that's so interesting, since I have the same rep as he does, and he hasn't been in the hospital.

You know, its things like this and my supposed "shipping" number that have me convinced the guy is a 1st class idiot! I'm almost tempted to drop all charges and let him keep the money he stole out of pity. I mean, does the fool think that people won't check on the "information" he provides....I guess we judge everyone by our own standards, and his standards are painfully clear!

Although, with all the information generated by this thread, and people coming out admitting they have had a problem with DZ surely we have grounds for a case of internet fraud!

Everyone, especially new and young companies, make mistakes and overpromise. They're still figuring out what they can and cannot do and where their weaknesses are, many of which they cannot solve overnight.

That said, this is pretty ridiculous. All he has to do is cancel his orders, refund people, and apologise.

Posted By pnweerar on 03/12/2007 1:19 AM
Everyone, especially new and young companies, make mistakes and overpromise. They're still figuring out what they can and cannot do and where their weaknesses are, many of which they cannot solve overnight.

That said, this is pretty ridiculous. All he has to do is cancel his orders, refund people, and apologise.

QFT.

My tracking number STILL has no info available...

I went over and read the excuse message that Robert's 'friend' put up explaining why he is so late at shipping stuff. One part is total BS:

Fourth, several months ago, his contact at GW got sick and was in the hospital. GW put someone else on his orders and really screwed them all up. Rob has just received all remaining items that were missing off his invoices. If you had an item he was having difficulty getting, most likely he has it now (unless it was bits). Again, call him and ask him.

This is an outright lie. Robert and I have the same sales rep. He does an outstanding job, and has fixed any problem I've had immediately. I order a lot of product, and it's not unexpected that now and then the warehouse makes a mistake. It takes one phonecall, 30 seconds of talking, and it's fixed. The product is to me in a couple of days.

Nothing takes weeks, or even months, to fix. Nothing.

He is using his GW rep as a punching bag, blaming someone that isn't aware he's being blamed,  for Robert's slow shipping. It pisses me off because I know how hard his sales rep works, and how good he is. Dropzone needs to grow a pair of balls, spend a couple days working to fix the problems, and get people their stuff. Or refund their money. Enough with the excuses and lies.

To those of you waiting on product from TDZ, has znything shown up yet? Has anyone gotten in contact with Robert? Any info from those tracking numbers? Robert's suspension on Bartertown should be through tomorrow. If you don't have an account there, you might wanna look in to getting one. Robert has a good track record of posting there, so it might help you contact him. At a minimum, you might be able to get a general update. After 2 weeks, I'm sure he'll have something to post.

Nope, nothing showing up yet.

I managed to call him twice, getting through and him giving me a confirmation number. Unfortunately, the number doesn't work.

He did email me this morning though telling me he'd sent the wrong thing - so he'd send again today. We then shot a few emails off at each other, and he said he'd send the stuff express mail (overnight) today. I'm awaiting the confirmation number for it.

Overall, he's a nice guy (impression I got from the phone and his emails). He just seems a little snowed under, and doesn't deal well under the pressure.

Chuck

Posted By chuckyhol on 03/14/2007 4:03 PM
Nope, nothing showing up yet.

I managed to call him twice, getting through and him giving me a confirmation number. Unfortunately, the number doesn't work.

He did email me this morning though telling me he'd sent the wrong thing - so he'd send again today. We then shot a few emails off at each other, and he said he'd send the stuff express mail (overnight) today. I'm awaiting the confirmation number for it.

Overall, he's a nice guy (impression I got from the phone and his emails). He just seems a little snowed under, and doesn't deal well under the pressure.

Chuck

Wait...he sent you the "wrong" conf. # and then he said he'd "send again"?????

Nope. He sent me a confirmation number - however, it's useless. It displays no info - and it may not even be valid.

He told me he'd sent me one wrong foam tray, hence "the wrong order". He told me that he was going to express mail me the necrons again, I dunno why.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Chuck

Sounds like you could do one better and get in contact with the GW rep, and send him your " Get Well" wishes.
Then, when the guy tells you WTF? you can explaine the whole issue to him. Chuckyhol, you are getting the green weenie, Give it back to them three times over.
When you finally figure out what that number really is, you can use it to bury him with, 1. You were given a gimp order number, fraud. 2. You have been promised goods, and instead of an order, your only getting the shaft, Either internet fraud or Mail order scam, take your pick. 3. Money changed hands, so you are looking into Federal territory. Internet scams are becoming very interesting to the justice dept, the FBI, and the Post office. ( If its a credit card issue, you can even have them take a look into it.)

I do hope your keeping a record of this issue, so when you finally get fed up and get an attorney, you can just get paid and be done with it, or you own his soul.

The explanation sounds like BS to me. bury this guy or he just changes his " company name" and does someone else the same way.

yeah, you're being taken....classic con (keep em on the hook as long as possible)

So can people do a class action small claims case?

I mean, why the hell not?

I don't think small claims can work as a class action.

For my internet purchases I use my credit card. There's nothing like contacting the CC company and letting professionals deal with problems like this.

I understand people have to use PayPal, check, or money order for their purchases. I urge you to consider using a reputable credit card when making purchases from afar.

I'm pretty certain you can do a class action lawsuit for a low amount, especially if the suit concerns a federal matter (which mail/wire fraud is). The federal courts don't maintain a small claims court, and I'm going to assume that the class would be pretty small, so that would be your main hindrence.

Keep in mind that the cost of hiring an attorney to file a complaint in court would cost more than the items in question. You'd probobly be better off working through your Credit Card, where it's in their interest to protect your money.

As for the discussion about criminal mail fraud, there are three basic elements to be proven to convict a person for mail fraud:
1) a scheme to defraud,
2) through use fo the mails
3) that harmed or intended to harm the victim

in the current case, the tripping points are in a "scheme to defraud," and harm. If chuchhol and the others eventually get their stuff, just late, the harm is minimal (though courts have expanded this, and I haven't read the caselaw on late delivery).

the scheme element is where intent will become a factor: the prosecutor would have to prove that TDZ intended to either not ship or delay shipping, whereas the defense could simply plead incompetence and mistakes. Assuming the gears of justice turn, and TSZ is arrested and indicted for mail fraud, his next step would be to mail the goods. Best case scenario, you're pressing charges on an overworked/under qualified business man whose only harm to the victims is a few months delay. While huge to a gamer, that's not overly compelling to a US prosecutor. Sure, they make examples out of people all the time, I just don't think this would pique their interest.

As for a civil claim, even in small claims court, you don't need to involve mail fraud or anything. It's a simple breach of contract, People's Court style case. "I payed him, he never sent the stuff." What might be fun is to research the long arm statutes of your state, and find out if a small claims court can issue a summons across state lines in your matter. Again, the cost of the court action would be greater than the goods in question, but you could get your justice.

So far I still haven't recieved anything....I got the bum delivery numbers, and I'm convinced he's posted these just to buy him time.

I currently have Paypal chasing my claim, should that fail the next step will be the credit card company ( I payed with my credit card via paypal )

I have no sympathy for this guy. As for proof of his intention to defraud, well, how about this:

I have emails and PMs from this guy chasing my money, he basically stated on more than one occassion that his "stock" was running out and I need to pay him soon in order to get what I wanted! And now after paying...zip, nada, nichts! So, why does an overworked, underqualified business man chase clients knowing he can't / won't be able to fulfil their requirements?

The guys a fraudster in my eyes, final!

I know of 6 people on Bartertown who have posted Bad Trader Reports in reference to The Drop Zone. 1 of the 6 has received his stuff from Robert in the last day or so. I believe it was over-nighted and everything.

Of the 6 B-town traders who posted the BTRs, one of them also noted that he was somewhat familiar with the law. Words to the effect of I'll be doing a police report when I go into work tonight, yes I am a cop". Of the 6, guess who got their stuff....

It seems to me that the only thing Robert is concerned with is not getting into any legal issues. If I were one of the many waiting for my product, I'd take 20 minutes out of my life to go file a police report. Bring along copies of your correspondence with Bobby as well as exactly what you ordered (Description, part codes, value). Don't forget Bobby's info (Website, store name/address, e-mail,phone #) and finally, records indicating that you did indeed pay him. That oughta get the ball rolling. Get a copy of the report (generally 2 business days) and send it to his local PD. Get them to do a report too. While there is always the potential they might sh!t can 1 complaint, I can't see them blowing off 5+.

@mikhaila- Got a phone number to that rep?

Good luck guys. I hope you get your product.

Based on advice I recieved from legal advisors in England, I was informed that The Drop Zone probably isn't taking me seriously because I'm not a US based customer, however, I guess he needs to take a trip over to the FBI website......

I have since filed a complaint with the FBI as paypal is taking too long to resolve what I consider to be a simple case of internet fraud. So I'll let the FBI deal with it.

Good luck Robert....I guess you'll need it now.

I got my stuff today, after it was overnighted two days ago (I missed it yesterday and it needs a signature).

Everything was there - and then some. Except my sabol, which should be coming soon. He said that it would go out soon.

Chuck

Awesome Chucky. This should atleast relieve some of the people waiting. This makes 2 people that Robert has taken care of. I'm sure it's an uphill battle for him, but he's making some progress.

It seems that I upset somene over at Bartertown by not backing up my post over here on Dakka. I've never been shy about saying what stores I own, and who I am, so just to make sure:

Michael Clark, I own two shops, Showcase Comics, located in the suburbs of Philadelphia. One in Bryn Mawr, one in the Granite Run Mall in Media, Pa.          Phone is 610 891 9229.

I don't have it in a sig, because we don't do mailorder. I post on Dakka because I like to, not to drum up business. I've never posted anything on BT, so any of my words getting there are second hand. I don't know the guys at DPZ, and the only beefs I have with them are 1) Not shipping customers their orders after taking their money. I'ts unprofessional and unfortunately too common in the hobby industry. 2) Having a 'friend' make the claim on BT that it was the fault of his GW rep. It's a lie, and only done to try and shift blame. Since we have the same GW rep, and he has become a good friend, it makes me angry to see this done.

This anonymous guy on Dakka posting about having the same sales rep? Hearsay. Let's have some names. Prove to me that what you say is true and not some moronic InTaRWEb vendetta.
The posting of unverified information in a BTR? Not Appreciated. Not technically against the rules, but that can change. Bad Trader Reports relay the facts of a situation, not "I heard some guy over on Dakka said this about some other guy who might or might not be responsible for something happening to the guy who this thread is about."

For crap-sake people, this is the Internet. Anyone can say Anything, and the burden of proof is often ignored. That is not the case here. If you can't prove it directly, you don't post it. We all know there are plenty of people who strongly dislike The Drop Zone enough to start rumors, lie, and otherwise slander him. Don't assist them.

@Mikhaila: Lin (the main mod of BT and the man whom you qouted) I believe was implying that you should post the GW rep's name. I'm glad you put up your own info but it might help posting the rep's name as well.

http://www.bartertown.com/trading/viewtopic.php?p=76747#76747

TDZ just posted a response on BT. In addition, he threatened that anyone calling him and "making threats" @ "2AM" would have their call traced and he would "press charges". He also mentioned that anyone who wants to come down and have it out can get directions from him.

All I have to say is that his behavoir throughout this situation reminds me of an immature teenager. Cheating people out of money, lying, shifting blame, and then threatening people with bodily harm is going too far. As I mentioned before, I have stuck up for TDZ on BT before but I'm done. I will not order from him and I'll tell everyone I deal with not to order from him. I'm also rather fed up that BT seems to be protecting him because he's an advertiser there and I think I'll be posting my thoughts on his little rant as well.

Here's my reply on BT (I have a feeling it'll get removed so...):

Mods, feel free to delete this if you feel it is inappropriate however I have something to say re: Robert's post....call it a little constructive criticism....

Robert, I am sorry for your loss and I'm glad that you seem to be taking responsibility for what's occured however

The Drop Zone wrote:

What I also want to express is that I will not tolerate any more of the 2am phone calls to my home and the threats sent to me via email. You feel you have the right to post my personal information on the web and email me threats where you want to come in and I quote ?Rip my head off and?.? BE MY GUEST. BRING YOUR SORRY ASS TO MY STORE AND ILL GIVE YOU THE CHANCE. You know who you are, so grow a set of coconuts and come on down. You want directions?


This type of behavoir is TOTALLY unacceptable on BT, ESPECIALLY from an advertiser. It does not look good to have an advertiser for this site threatening those who have had a problem with his service as well as being out their hard-earned money with physical violence. Sorry, that crosses a line.

Robert, if you feel that you are being harassed, then you should respond in a professional manner. You run a business and you are a supporter of this site. As such, you shouldn't be acting like an immature teenager and threatening to "take all comers".

As a business owner, you need to understand that people will be upset with your service from time to time and, since you don't have a customer service center, you are going to have to field those calls. Your best bet is to be calm, professional, and willing to work with people. Don't EVER threaten someone (especially not in writing on the internet for everyone to see) - it only makes you look bad and reduces your business' image in consumer's eyes.

My point is not to attack TDZ but a hope that Robert will edit his response and learn from this (both the post and situation) that he needs to be more professional. This type of behavoir would not be tolerated by any normal BTer (heck, I know Lin's banned a person who swore @ me before) and certainly should not be tolerated by an advertiser.

First off

As some of you may or may not know, my grandmother recently passed away.
This has caused a lot of hardship on my family. It was a sudden and unexpected loss that I can hardly form the words to express. I spent many days after school in my elementary and middle school years at her house after school till my parents got home from work. I was very close to her, and I miss her dearly.

Now with that knowledge, I openly want to express my deepest apologies for the lack of communication over the last 2 weeks plus. Unfortunately I run the store entirely on my own, and have no one to take care of things when I have to leave. This doesnt excuse anything I know people have the right to expect their products on a timely manner and I freely admit that I have let some of you down over the last 2 weeks.

I am currently sorting through close to 200 emails and my voicemail is currently locked and no one seems to be able to access it right now. I am sorting through the mess as fast as I can. A lot of products have been shipped out this last week and more are going out the door as I type this up. Thanks to my wife for making numerous trips to the post office.

What I also want to express is that I will not tolerate any more of the 2am phone calls to my home and the threats sent to me via email. You feel you have the right to post my personal information on the web and email me threats where you want to come in and I quote ?Rip my head off and?.? BE MY GUEST. BRING YOUR SORRY ASS TO MY STORE AND ILL GIVE YOU THE CHANCE. You know who you are, so grow a set of coconuts and come on down. You want directions? I have contacted the phone company and the local police department, the next phone call that comes in at 2am will be traced and I will press charges against you. You can block your number all you want. If you think I wont see you put in hand cuffs you are seriously, mistaken. Enough of that though.

I want to express my gratitude to a number of my customers who have stepped up for me and have posted information for me. As I said it to you on the phone, I consider you my friends and I am deeply grateful for your support and time, and your business.

That?s pretty much all I have to say at this time.
If I haven?t emailed you yet and you are missing things please email me I will get it sorted out immediately.

Thanks
Robert

Ancient
do me a favor if your going to post part of my text post it entirely

Delephont

why dont you tell everyone you intiated the paypal claim less than 2 weeks after the product was released to the public?

why dont you also tell them that international shipping is a 2 week minimum?

you can claim all you want i have the customs form recepit you are simply trying to get a dark angel box for free. thats my honest opinion on it

CP217402785US is indeed the customs form it is not a tracking number the only good thing about this number and the way it was shipped i have shipping insurance on the box so if the person on the other end claims to not recieve it i will gte my funds back. the number discrepency is simply i made a mistake and posted the wrong number from my grandmothers house while i was there

yes delephont i have disputed your paypal claim the box was shipped this is the last time i will ship anything overseas

you can contact the fbi all you want

seeing as how you people here have taken it upon yourselves to post my personal information here.. i want you to all know this the next time one of you decides to call my house at 2 am and threaten to kill my wife be prepared to have the police show up the next morning and i will see you in hand cuffs. you know who you are

being a customer allows you some lattitude but making threats isnt one of them

Uh, CP202353584US is NOT a USPS #.

yes indeed it is a usps number it is a international customs form number

yes chuck has got his crons i overnighted them when the other set failed to arrive
james had the box of terminators i mistaken left from a trade overnighted as well

i am a one man operation im sorry if my family problems have caused some frustrations
in any case where there was an issue i have either refunded the persons money and in one case offered to ship it free of charge to the person.

everyone is entitled to their product in a quicjk fashion and i appreciate that fact.. being out of the store for almost 10 days was not the best choice.

and posting here prior to that i dont go looking for posts concerning me thats why there are pms, email and phone numbers posted all over

unfortunately my voicemail is full and even the phone co cannot access it right now

i am sorting through almost 200 emails i think i have gotten everyone if i havent shoot me an email and i will get it fixed right away

i hope none of you ever have to go through what i have. i hope some of you understand that sometimes life happens if you dont what can i say

those of you who have bought from me i thank you those of you who havent and feel like making comments it is unwarranted

Rob

Fair enough on all counts. TDZ (Robert) is good in my books. I'm just hoping the other box of crons arrive

Chuck

Posted By The Drop Zone on 03/17/2007 11:39 AM


Ancient
do me a favor if your going to post part of my text post it entirely



Rob

Oh, Robert, I don't have to direct quote you - you've proved to be quite capable of putting your own foot in your mouth.

Ouch, that gets sigged.

Dude, "rip your head off" could be a sexual advance!

Call him back!

Call him back!

(Him = me, or maybe Hellfury)

Yeah, some people shouldn't be allowed near communication systems.

/whistles innocently

Who honestly called him at 2 am?

Either way, I think I can safely say I'll never play "the Drop Zone" roulette.

Robert

We'll see, if the box turns up I'll take everythng back....I'll never shop with you again....but maybe I'll belive you had difficulties......

IF the box turns up!

Posted By Delephont on 03/18/2007 5:31 AM

Robert

We'll see, if the box turns up I'll take everythng back....I'll never shop with you again....but maybe I'll belive you had difficulties......

IF the box turns up!

Some how I do not belive you are that type of person, now if I was not a God fearing man I would wish that you had a family memeber or a child drop dead so you could see what turmoil it can cause in your life. but having had to bury a family member I can tell you I would never wish that on anyone.

At the end of the day you are simply the type of person who does not trust others. That is a horrible way to go though life and I hope you trust in God to change that. Some how I suspect that no matter what TDZ does to solve this issue will not be enough and you will continue to complain and whine.

Beowolfthehunter:

Customer dont care. I work retail. They dont want excuses, only results.

If he communicated more and better, it helps when you have difficulties, people would understand. But from what I gather, he didnt.

Sorry he had personal difficulties, but in the end, customers dont want excuses, only results.

First of all, I understand everyone is human, mistakes happen! People we love pass on....its tragic and when this happens, for some of us, our world grinds to a halt and we nothing more than to take some time out and reconsider our lot in life.

beowulfthehunter.

What do you know about this issue? and who are you to judge what type of person I am? If you're as God fearing as you suggest then take some time out from the internet and read some more of the Bible, theres some interesting stuff in there about judging others. Why you see a need to bring God into this equation is beyond my comprehension. I'm the sort of person who doesn't trust...hmm, well hey my God fearing neighbour, I have a great idea....lets test your trust shall we!

Right, you loud mouth, this is how we'll do it! You send me, via paypal $198....now, when Robert sends me the dark Angel army set he promised me ( if I payed him on time! ) I'll send the boxed set on to you.

Right I'll sit by my computer and wait for your trust to kick in......idiot!

...*whistles while waiting for beowulf to send the money*...

I have a strong suspicion beowulfthehunter is TDZ. I'd love for a mod to do an IP check...

Posted By Flagg07 on 03/18/2007 4:12 PM
I have a strong suspicion beowulfthehunter is TDZ. I'd love for a mod to do an IP check

Sure mods please do, anything more to make you guys look like the dumb asses you are.

Wow, you're SO right beowulf. It's OUR fault so many people don't have stuff they paid for, and it's OUR fault that Robert hasn't returned a helluva lot of PM's, emails, and phone calls.

I'm cool with Robert now (assuming my sabol is coming soon) - but beowulf, you're an idiot. If you don't like it here at dakkadakka, feel free to leave and find Anderton - you two would get along great.

Posted By chuckyhol on 03/18/2007 7:17 PM
Wow, you're SO right beowulf. It's OUR fault so many people don't have stuff they paid for, and it's OUR fault that Robert hasn't returned a helluva lot of PM's, emails, and phone calls.

I'm cool with Robert now (assuming my sabol is coming soon) - but beowulf, you're an idiot. If you don't like it here at dakkadakka, feel free to leave and find Anderton - you two would get along great.

I actully like Dakka, I use to be a member back in the day. What I do not like are a bunch of cowards posting this guys private info all over the web because they had to wait a few extra weeks.

Yes it is bad form to drop everything to deal with a family crisis but what I find funny are people who have been told he is not in the office/store yet complaining he does not contact them. Then for some one to question his situation, gee what do you want him to do, send you the mass card for the woman or better yet, I bet you would like a small zip-lock bag of her cremains to flock your bases with.

I am sorry, I am sorry If I am the only one with balls here to say this is wrong!

Your drama is a tad over the top, Beowulf. Yep, I agree that if people were calling him at 2 am, that was out of line.

Of course, he was weeks late with peoples orders BEFORE he had a death in the family. So while unfortunate, it also doesn't excuse more than part of the problem.

And it doesn't excuse him making up stories about his GW rep messing up his orders.

Fact of the matter is, everyone has to deal with deaths in their family at some point. If you're in business for yourself, you have to deal with everything while still running your business. It's something that comes with being your own boss, especially if you have no one else working for you, and especially in a situation where people have paid you and are waiting on product. Not communicating with people makes it worse.

Your defense of him, with no post count before this started, is of course going to make you a target, with some people assuming you are associated with TDZ. No way to prove one way or another, but it's something you have to put up with when you appear out of nowhere, and are a bit..shrill.. in your arguements.

Posted By The Drop Zone on 03/17/2007 11:39 AM
...
What I also want to express is that I will not tolerate any more of the 2am phone calls to my home and the threats sent to me via email. You feel you have the right to post my personal information on the web and email me threats where you want to come in and I quote “Rip my head off and….” BE MY GUEST. BRING YOUR SORRY ASS TO MY STORE AND ILL GIVE YOU THE CHANCE. You know who you are, so grow a set of coconuts and come on down. You want directions?

...

Is it cool for a Dakka advertiserto be posting threats to Dakka members?

Mikhaila, as reliable as old faithful, hits the nail on the head again.

Beowulf, there is certainly no excuse for people calling at 2am, and of course we have sympathy for anyone who loses a family member. But TDZ failed to communicate with his customers, even to notify them in a timely fashion that such an event had occured and that there would be delays. The story about the GW rep, at least, is demonstrably false. His customers have every right to expect clear and timely communications, and to get their products when promised, even if the date has to be revised.  Remember- at the time these communications issues/delays started, he was still visiting and posting in general discussion topics on the forums.

If anyone did call his house late at night and make threats, they are antisocial idiots who have lost all right to criticize TDZ, but the fact that one or two idiots acted out doesn't make TDZ's macho response a good move from a business standpoint. Customer service is about fixing the problem, clear communications, and acting professionally and with dignity even (especially) when the customer doesn't.   If TDZ had informed people earlier, even some kind of bulk/mass email to everyone with outstanding orders and submitting new ones, I'm 100% certain that the folks who posted on this thread would have been understanding, and it never would have gotten to this point.  

True enough, thanks posters for adding some intelligent arguents to this case. I for own do not hold him blameless in this situation.

Now here is my question, where did TDZ state that he had problems with his GW rep and when i say that I mean where did HE say it not someone saying he said it? From expereince of having been on the inside of a few LGSs I can tell you that many a GW sales rep is a moron and has cost a few stores in my area customers and products. I have seen a few of these reps waffle like an IHO special. It ends up leaving the store owner looking like a crook.

Just my 2 cents

Well, I cannot believe this has gone on this long. THe drama and the agony. So what have we learned so far:
1. TDZ missed scheduled ship dates and pissed off some of their customers.
2. TDZ owner lost his grandmother, and got behind in shipments.
3. TDZ owner is having problems getting throught he backlog of email and phone messages.
4. Customers are really really upset about TDZ customer service.
5. Customers are internet savy and can find out personal information about store owners. (let this be a warning to you out there about hiding behind the internet)
6. Customers can contact both the FBI and BBB when they get bad service/feel they are getting ripped off.
7. It is easy, if communication is bad, for customers to feel like they are being ripped off especially while conducting business over the internet and their products do not arrive in a timely manner.
8. Some people have called the owner of TDZ late at night and alegedly threatened him and/or his family. (If true very bad form)
9. TDZ owner got the police involved and called out the caller and told him to speak those words to his face. (Police involved fine, calling caller out on the internet not best judgement, but understandable. I mean if I got a late night obscene phone call, I would probably go off as well.)
10. This has gone on much longer than it needs to and I can only hope that I am in before the lock.

Conclusion: TDZ has failed to meet deliverables to some of their customers and the customers are upset. TDZ has tried to make ammends, and most of the customers seem to have accepted it and are getting on with their lives. So in the words of Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along."

Have fun and happy gaming all.

I'm a new poster but old lurker in this forum. Some of you might recognize me from Bartertown though.

This could have all been avoided if TDZ had sent a "blanket email" (or whatever you call it) to all his customers explaining his loss and the delay in shipping. It would have taken all of 5 minutes and saved everyone alot of anger and headaches.
But some of these problems predate his loss of his family member.(some several months)

TDZ should not have been threatened. But if I was out $200+ and someone didn't reply to numerous phone callls/emails I would definitely try to track him down and call his house. At 2AM? Maybe the guy is in a different part of the state/time zone and didn't realize it. Perhaps not...
So what? That person has obviously been put through alot of grief/headaches, so IMHO he deserves to let TDZ know.
Anyway 1 or 2 people being very angry and calling/threatening does not make the dozens of other problems with orders go away.

This can simply be solved by TDZ taking a day or two, getting all the orders together and either shipping the items immediately with Priority 3 day and tracking or giving an apology with a full refund. Everything could be taken care of within seven days easily.

It seems any threads placed on Bartertown are "locked",being "non-constructive".(especially if Ancient Societ comments)
One thing bothers me though. If it was a "regular trader", not a business/Btown sponsor doing all this, would the Bartertown Mods be acting the same?? Hmmmmmm......
TDZ is simply not being held to the same standards a regular trader on Btown would be. A trader with that many negative references and bad trader threads would have been kicked off Btown. Yet TDZ is still a sponsor.

Do I think TDZ is a scammer or trying to rip people off??
No, absolutely not.

Is he doing the right thing and correcting the problem as quickly as possible??
No, absolutely not.

I'm not attacking TDZ, but I don't think this is being handled by him very well.Customers who pay for something and don't get what they paid for in timely fashion have every right to be very angry.Obviously phone calls/emails weren't working so what else were they to do?? They came here to have there voices heard.

To end all this TDZ could simply post a list of screen names with oustanding orders and give tracking numbers for orders shipped,or full refunds.
If he did that,I bet these threads would dry up.

thelosttau

Thanks for the summary, however, no, not all customers are getting their problems solved. I would like to add that in some respects this thread has gotten out of control. Originally it started as a thread where people experiencing the same lack of service from TDZ could air and compare their situations, perhaps even find a solution.

What has happened, and this IMHO is the reason why its spiralled out of control is becuase people who are not involved and have nothing constructive to add insist on adding unwanted opinions.

thelosttau, beowulfthehunter.....what are you doing here? why are you psoting on this thread? ok sure, you have the right to an opinion like anyone else, but what are you actually adding thats of service to the people who really have lost out to TDZ? nothing, aboslutely nothing.....you complain that the thread is dragging on, well, your extra ( useful ) posts have made the thread one post longer each time....or didn't that occur to you? and you haven't lost any money, so what exactly are you trying to say? that we should just forget it and move on?

Please, anyone feeling a need to post on this thread, please think about what your own incentives are before riding the butts of others....go back and read through the 11 - 12 pages of comments, understand the situation and then post if you have something usefu to post....if not, then read, amuse yourself on misfortune of others and then kindly move along.....

I am sick and tired of people telling me its no big deal to lose $198 of my hard earned cash. If anyone of you wants to send me the money then I'll happily laugh alongside you, but until you can put your money where your mouth is.....shut the hell up!

I looked at Bartertown and Mikhaila's claims were ignored because they apparently were "hearsay" according to some members. Why then aren't TDZ's posts about threats to his person mere allegations? Has he provided phone or police records? No, it is merely his word, which to me, after reading all this and being a neutral party, does not hold much water. Since shipping problems predated any death in the family, its macabre use to justify them, as well as the "threats" he received merely point out that he is trying to shift the focus and blame from his shady business practices. And all this of course while he was happily posting away in other sections of the forum. Very suspect behaviour, if I might say so.

Also,just for the record I was a TDZ customer. There was a problem and some very angry words exchanged by both. It was taken care of though. I don't hold a grudge. But would I order from TDZ again? No.
I hold a distinct honor. I was the first person TDZ "banned" from ever ordering from him again on Btown.Not that I planned on any future orders after that.

Delephont is absolutely right. Its easy to sit back and say B.S. like "can't we all get along?" if you aren't out $200. If it was me I'd be screaming for blood.

Delephont and other customers ofTDZ:
I did not mean to imply that having an unfilled order approx $200 is not a big deal, it is huge and I agree that it is a reason to be upset. It would seem that the customer service of TDZ over the past month as reported on this thread is a bit lacking and I was not trying to diminish your loss.

Delephont specifically, while I feel your loss and agree that bad customer service can piss you off, having myself been stung by that before, in completely different areas and under different circumstances. Once you file a complaint with your credit card company and or pay pal claiming you have not received your goods and you want your money back, Why on earth would you expect a retailer to bend over backwards to get you your product. They way I understand this to work, a Credit Card company stops payment to the retailer and credits your account until the situation is researched. Iif the credit card company after researching the issue, feels the payment was made in error, ie you did not receive what you ordered, they demand their money back and ensure the bill is removed from your card. Once that happens is like you did not ever pay the company and they owe you nothing. So to be fair to TDZ, realizing that you feel screwed and it sounds like you have a right to because of TDZ poor customer service, once you turn the negotiations over to Pay Pal and/or the credit company, you have basically said I have given up on seeking a equitable solution with TDZ and now you just want your money back. So if you have not gotten your money, your beef is now with Pay Pal, Master Card, Visa etc. and their ability to research and solve this problem to your satisfaction.

So.....after following this thread with interest, just like I follow most threads dealing with online retailers, because they tend to be cheaper than Brick and Mortar stores and because I have had friends who use to be in the hobby business, but for various reason are no longer, I like to try and understand the issues with customer service in these areas andf how to avoid problems.

Starslayer has a good point, if TDZ had sent a blanket email or had an automated response that stated the persoinal issues he was having and a time frame for a solution, then this could have been nipped in the bud. Also, this is the first I ever heard of a continuous problem with TDZ, that i assume is well document on Bartertown.

All of this being said, like I stated before, it seems as though TDZ is making a good faith effort to rectify his business issues. Atleast that is what he stated in his post and Chucky, has received his goods.

So, this thread has accomplished at least 2 things, 1. It has brought to light customer service issues at TDZ and now gamers can go into business transactions with him with their eyes wide open (or shut as the case maybe) and 2.The orignal posters or most of them have recieved their products.

So with everyone warned about TDZ, I appeal to the MODs to please just lock this thread and end the vitriol both ways. What more can we accomplish here but continue to rehash stuff that is already convered.

I guess this is just more gasoline for the fire, oh well, I best put on my asbestos underware and wait for the flames to start.

thelosttau

Dude.....I'm just speechless. Listen, thanks for your sympathy....but you're missing the point! Who are you to "request" the thread be locked? Are you TDZ in disguise? do you work for / with him?

I think this is simple, if this thread is causing you some grief , or, for your own reasons, is unsavoury....here's an idea....and feel free to ignore it!...but I'll give it anyway......

DON'T READ THE THREAD, DON'T POST ON THE THREAD.....JUST IGNORE IT

Posted By Delephont on 03/19/2007 12:30 PM

DON'T READ THE THREAD, DON'T IGNORE  THE THREAD.....JUST POST ON IT  

Fixed your typo.

I emailed him yesterday and still haven't received a reply.  I would have hoped that, being the one who started this thread, I would have heard from him by now.

Robert, you got my money on February 14th.  Did I just forget to pay the "Vendor Will Actually Talk To You" fee?

Has anyone actually successfully gotten the Credit Card company to refund them for a failed purchase or goods not recieved or whatever? Honestly, once the money has been paid, they don't put a "stop payment" or anything. They just take it from both ends!

I've been double charged before over the internet. Both sides, (the credit card company and the retailer) claimed they did not see a double charge. After months and months of fighting and even a credit card statement with two identical charges from from the same retailer in less then a second's time, and the retailer's daily tally showing two identical charges at the same time, both sides STILL refused to refund or even admit that a problem had occured. Long story short, I was stuck paying twice. As it was a relatively small amount of money, I chalked it up as a loss and lesson learned.

I would imagine that PayPal may be more receptive, but I sincerely doubt that filing a claim with your credit card company will get you anywhere fast, if anywhere at all.

As a merchant, I recieve notice of customers wanting to do charge backs a couple of times each  year. So far, It's always been a case of husband uses wifes credit card, wife has no idea who "Showcase Comics" is, and she calls up and tries to reverse charges, claiming they are fraudulent.

As a merchant, I usually have a couple of days time to prove I actually have the credit reciept, and send in a copy of it. If I don't send a legible copy by that time, the CC company automatically reverses the charges.

In a case of a dispute over merchandise not shipped, it would be similar I think, with the merchant having to show some proof that it was a legitamate charge, with proof it was delivered.

While not automatically successful, talking to paypal and your CC company are definitely worth doing.

@IGFan: Actually, I posted re: the hypocrisy of a certain mod on Btown complaining about mikhaila's "hearsay" and then defending TDZ's allegation of "threatening phone calls". The thread was promptly locked afterward as it wasn't "civil" - even though I wasn't the one threatening people with violence. Hypocrisy? Damn right!

@Starslayer: Thanks for the support. Like I said though, I have a feeling TDZ's time as an advertiser on any site within the Dakkaverse (Dakka, BT, Warseer, etc.) is slowly coming to an end. There is only so many people you can screw over before word gets out.

@Iorek: So you STILL have not rec'd your stuff? Do you have an acct @ bartertown? If so, open up a Bad Trader Report on him.

@Whitedragon: Call your CC's customer service or dispute center in these cases. I have a Chase card and when I was double-charged at a merchant, I called, opened a dispute, and got my money back within 2 days.

Bad trader alert posted on Bartertown.

Click the link above if you really want to see the transcript of this monstrosity.

Nice.  The mods at Bartertown deleted my post, and I know it was up for at least a little while, as I recieved a PM regarding it.

This is what it was; any idea why they'd nuke it and not say anything to me?

------------------------------------------------------------

After over a month of waiting since I paid, I have not received my product from this guy. I've emailed him twice since he "reappeared" on Dakka, but still haven't heard from him. I also left him a voicemail in late February/early March, but I don't have a record of that.

My biggest problem was communication. Once he had my money, I only got a hold of him once, and that was because I happened to catch him on Google chat. I was the one who started the thread on Dakka, and all I want(ed) is some communication. I still don't have the Chaos Warhounds, though. It's not a big order, but it sure is pissing me off.

Caveat Emptor.

All exchanges were electronic:

05-Feb
to thedropzoneonline@gmail.com
date 05-Feb-2007 15:25
subject Warhammer order - Chaos Warhounds?

Hello! I found your site from the Dakka forums, and wanted to see if you have any boxes of Chaos Warhounds in stock (part 99119915017). I just need one.

Thanks!


05-Feb
from Robert Eveland <thedropzoneonline>
to Andrew Everett <andrew>
date 05-Feb-2007 20:51
subject Re: Warhammer order - Chaos Warhounds?

I dont have it in stock but id be happy to order it for you
Robert

06-Feb
from Andrew Everett <andrew>
to Robert Eveland <thedropzoneonline>
date 06-Feb-2007 09:59
subject Re: Warhammer order - Chaos Warhounds?

Sure, let's do that. What do you need from me, payment-wise?


06-Feb
from Robert Eveland <thedropzoneonline>
to Andrew Everett <andrew>
date 06-Feb-2007 11:52
subject Re: Warhammer order - Chaos Warhounds?

Andrew
let me call gw today and make sure i can get one i shouldnt have any issues once i know i can ill order one and let you know
Robert

08-Feb
from Andrew Everett <andrew>
to Robert Eveland <thedropzoneonline>
date 08-Feb-2007 16:44
subject Re: Warhammer order - Chaos Warhounds?

Any word on those Chaos Warhounds?

Thanks!


08-Feb
from Robert Eveland <thedropzoneonline>
to Andrew Everett <andrew>
date 08-Feb-2007 19:56
subject Re: Warhammer order - Chaos Warhounds?

sorry yes i can gte them i have to gte them from mail order
they are going to be redoing them in the near future do you want them now or wait?
if so ill get them asap they would only be 20% off tho
Robert


08-Feb
from Andrew Everett <andrew>
to Robert Eveland <thedropzoneonline>
date 08-Feb-2007 22:20
subject Re: Warhammer order - Chaos Warhounds?

I need them now-ish, and 20% off is just fine. Let me know what my total payment will be, and how you want it (PayPal, check, whatever).

Thanks!

- Andrew


08-Feb
from Robert Eveland <thedropzoneonline>
to Andrew Everett <andrew>
date 08-Feb-2007 22:29
subject Re: Warhammer order - Chaos Warhounds?

Ill order it tomorrow and have the total for you in the afternoon
checks credit cards paypal is ok small additional fee for it they charge me 3% sorry


09-Feb
from Andrew Everett <andrew>
to Robert Eveland <thedropzoneonline>
date 09-Feb-2007 11:24
subject Re: Warhammer order - Chaos Warhounds?

Let's do PayPal, unless you have a secure website set up for credit card transactions. I don't mind the 3%; you're still cheaper than ordering it from GW!

When you say "get them from mail order", do you mean that you're going to have to pay full price for 'em? I'd hate to cost you money on this!



09-Feb
from Robert Eveland <thedropzoneonline>
to Andrew Everett <andrew>
date 09-Feb-2007 19:35
subject Re: Warhammer order - Chaos Warhounds?

i have to order them from the mail order section
i get a discount just not as much thus the price difference
if you want you can just call in your credit card over the phone save you some money
704-236-4329 is the direct number
thanks

============
14-Feb Instant Message Transcript

10:08 Robert: andrew?
me: hello!
10:09 Robert: you needed the chaos warhounds correct ?
me: Yeppers
Robert: okie dokie no sweat ill get them asap Smile
me: How much do I owe you?
10:10 Robert: for this one box dont worry about it right now since i have to deal with mail order i wont worry about cost till i gte them for you... 20% off retail is your price
10:11 me: so, that's ... $32.00?
Robert: that sounds right
just shoot me an email with your shipping address i should have tem in 3-7 days
10:12 me: Sure thing. How do you want to do payment?
10:13 I can do Visa over the phone
(don't want to do it on AIM; not secure)
Robert: ill shoot you an email when the item comes in if you want to try to call me again Smile i can do the cc over the phone or if you feel safe just email it
no no no
i dont blame you
10:14 me: I may just PayPal you; it's only an extra dollar, and you're still giving me a really good deal
Robert: thanks.. rlecomputers@bellsouth.net is my paypal account
10:16 illlet you know ehn they come in .. have to run the dark angels are arriving today !!!!
================


14-Feb
from Andrew Everett <andrew>
to Robert Eveland <thedropzoneonline>
date 14-Feb-2007 10:23
subject Re: Warhammer order - Chaos Warhounds?

Hey! I just sent you payment via PayPal. Let me know if there is any problem with this.

My shipping address is:
Andrew Everett
Blah blah blah, etc. (Note: my actual shipping address was in the email).

Thank you!



23-Feb
from Andrew Everett <andrew>
to Robert Eveland <thedropzoneonline>
date 23-Feb-2007 11:41
subject Re: Warhammer order - Chaos Warhounds?

Any word on my order?

Thanks!


27-Feb
from Andrew Everett <andrew>
to Robert Eveland <thedropzoneonline>
date 27-Feb-2007 11:51
subject Re: Warhammer order - Chaos Warhounds?

Robert, what is the status of the Warhammer Chaos Warhounds? It's been almost two weeks, and I haven't heard anything from you.

Thanks!

=================
05-Mar - Instant Message Transcript
13:06 me: Any word on the Chaos Warhounds?
13:07 Robert: box should be here today or tomorrow i orderd them from mail order last monday
me: Could you PLEASE PLEASE let me know when they go out?
Your communication has not been good.
Robert: i will send you dc info as soon as i send the box
i have been away from the store the last 4 days sorry im way behind right now
13:08 you can always rwach me at the store number 704-236-4329
me: I left you a message there last week and didn't hear back
Robert: ill have to re chck the machine ill let you know asap
13:09 me: Thanks
=================

No idea why they would have deleted it. Your guess is as good as mine.

I've got no idea how bartertown works, so forgive me if I ask a dumb question. It's basically a site to set up trades, list your items or wantlists, co-ordinate deals and such? And the bad trader posts basically are there to keep people honest, and notify other potential victims of unscrupulous people.

If that's basically correct, then the main question I'd ask is "Did you use bartertown to contact TDZ, or did he find you from a post you made on bartertown?" If BT wasn't involved in the trade at all, they might have deleted your post for that reason. They aren't collecting information on bad traders, just bad traders that are using BT.

Just guessing on this one.

Hopefully you get your stuff soon. Ordering from GW's Bitz service takes a bit longer than ordering in stock items. (1 to 3 weeks for Mailorder, vs. less than a week for normal orders.)  Chaos Hounds just moved out of the regular range, I think,  and although some stores may still have them in stock, an independent store can't order them from Trade Sales, but can get them as bitz from mailorder.

For me, having the Direct Order Point in my store, I get bitz orders in about 10 days average, but they always say 2 to 3 weeks. I have had some orders take as long as 3 weeks to get to me. If TDZ ordered them about halfway through Feb., he probably didn't get them till first of March, and maybe a week later. That was the point when he had a death in the family, stuff backed up, and things stopped getting shipped out. Hopefully your order is on it's way to you soon.

Posted By Iorek on 03/19/2007 6:12 PM
Bad trader alert posted on Bartertown.

Click the link above if you really want to see the transcript of this monstrosity.

It was up for a bit, I saw it. I think it got nuked because you stated you saw the TDZ ad on Dakka, not Bartertown. Just a guess.

You can't post bad trader references for people you didn't start a trade on from bartertown. Thats why it went away.

Posted By Nuwisha on 03/19/2007 9:21 PM
You can't post bad trader references for people you didn't start a trade on from bartertown. Thats why it went away.

Makes sense I suppose.

That makes sense.  I just did it as AncientSociety recommended it as a course of action.

Exactly.

It wasn't a bad idea to do it though. As you saw, there are about 5 other threads dedicated to TDZ from people who contacted him, or were contacted by him, on Bartertown.

Welcome to B-town Iorek. Don't judge the site by one POS. It's full of good traders.

Posted By Iorek on 03/20/2007 4:56 AM
That makes sense.  I just did it as AncientSociety recommended it as a course of action.

Yes it was there for a while. I read it, and was looking for it this morning.

But they only deal with bartertown problems, not other ones...

Nothing to see around here. Move along....

Oh, I know it's mostly good traders.  I actually used it in its infancy back in the late 90's, but I'll be darned if I can remember that old user name.  I mostly just use Dakka for trades, but I may start frequenting B-Town.  I do have a painted marine army that I'll be looking to dump in a few months.

Thanks!

Ok first of all, Ancient... seriously, your conspiracy theory about all of this is getting a little out of hand.

By the way,
That doesn't mean that ANY TRADE FROM ANY SITE be posted to his ITL... ONLY BARTERTOWN TRADES.

Iorek, its not overly bad that you posted the BTR, we aren't going to go all nuts on you and bop you with a newspaper or anything. Its simply that we don't handle bad trades originating from other sites. Much like not being able to post about someone who scammed you on ebay in the BTR section. Despite whatever AncientSociety wants to believe, the thread only went away because it wasn't something that originated on bartertown.

Its silly to think we'd decide to delete Ioreks thread when it badmouths TDZ when there are five other threads from other customers on there from other people. I do hope he gets your stuff to you Iorek, but I do not have any contact with Robert myself.

Yeah, Lin just PM'ed me about it and clarified things for me.  That's what I get for reading the other posts but not the posting rules.  It makes sense, and I just didn't think about it.  On the plus side, it did get me over to Bartertown again.

Well I hope you have fun there. And bring the evil monkey!

I brought the angry polar bear; I should change it here, too.

Well, check this out.  It's a regular meeting of the BT moderators over here. :-)

The Bad Trader Forum's rules clearly state that it is for Bartertown-based transactions only.  That's it.  Not Dakka, or eBay, or anywhere else.

Now, for these others (Good Trader and ITL)...there's nothing specifically posted that states "Thou Must Do This."  In any event, there will be a new set of rules that will spell this out for everyone coming soon.  In both the Good Trader Forum as well as the ITL users must create a Bartertown Account in order to post something there.

Moving on...
Starslayer, shame on you.  We have one dust-up about trade practice and you have to squirrel over here to *female dog* about how much you think we're coddling Robert?  If we coddled him, do you really think I would have suspended him for two weeks for threadjacking?  Would I leave up all the bad trader reports, even the resolved ones? 
That's the thing people forget:  I don't care who someone is, if they break the rules they face the consequence.  Even if they owe me stuff, which is a whole other issue.

IGFan:  Yes, Hearsay:  Unverifiable statements made by anonymous or potentially biased claimants.  I am a federal librarian and if a source has no veracity, if it can't be proven, it is disregarded until such time as it can be proven.  Also, Mikhaila never posted anything on BTown (at least not under that username).  Robert's allegations against the callers were non-specific, so he wasn't sanctioned for them in much the same manner as unprovable allegations made by people against him were not sanctioned.

So what you are saying is that TDZ is not potentially biased? I would claim the reverse actually, he is very biased as he is one of the involved parties. Anyway, I don't care either way if the guy received threats or not, I do not use Bartertown nor this guy's service, I was just writing what I thought as a neutral third party who got interested in this thread and I do not have to either apologise for it nor explain any further to you, especially since my opinion on his shady practices was not posted on your site but in this forum.

I know what hearsay is, I do not know what a federal librarian is as I am not American and to me a librarian is a person who helps you find books and then returns them back to their shelves or stacks at night (so your credentials do not awe me, do not impress me, nor do they make you an authority on hearsay in my eyes, as I find it doubtful that they are much different than those of a normal, non-federal librarian), and finally I would trust Mikhaila more than TDZ, as the former appears to be the voice of reason while the latter is quite defensive and rude towards people who are his clients, allowing me to stipulate that he in fact did not receive any threats.

I would venture as far as to say that he did not even have a death in the family as apparently this is the second time he has played this card. I mean, other people's close relatives who were loved have died before and will die in the future, even many of mine, it takes us a day or two to get over it, organise a funeral and attend it, and that's the end of it. They are dead, their troubles are over. Should we jump into the funeral pyre with them? It does not take over a month to get back in whatever business you are in and I know this for a fact and from experience. As I wrote previously, even if the death is real (and my condolences for his loss if so), trouble with his business started before it happened and he happily posted on other threads while he was too "grief-stricken" or "busy" with the death to deal with his paying customers, leading me to believe that it was just an excuse for him to buy time. Finally, his general attitude towards customers is insulting to say the least, and even if all his excuses were real and credible there is no excuse for the behaviour he has demonstrated.

Ok, LIN,prove me wrong. Tell us 1 thing Btown has done to stir TDZ into action?
Its quite beneath you to think this is about our prior "dust-up on trade practices",its not. I came here to *female dog*,well what choice do you leave anyone? TDZ threads get locked on Btown.

I'd like to know point blank. ....how long is this going to go on???
We all know this could be wrapped up in a WEEK tops.
Have the item in hand? Ship it. Priority 3 day with tracking/delivery confirmation.
Don't have the item? Paypal refund.
Whats the hold up???

IMHO you treatment of Ancient Society is discouraging others from coming forward. How many bad deals does it take for Btown to turn down a sponsor? 10? 100? More? Or doesnt it matter? Like it or not,what the TDZ does to Btown members represents Bartertown.

I have respect for Btown and its Mods,but I think this has gone on way too long. Want these TDZ threads to go away? TDZ needs to ship or refund.

People deserve 1)the items they ordered in timely manner,2) decent communication if a problem arises,3) good customer service or 4)a REFUND. The first three went out the window,so whats left?

Posted By Linrandir on 03/20/2007 9:24 AM
  I am a federal librarian

That is the funniest credential I have heard.  

I know that a bad trade is to be expected every now and then, but to have that many posts, plus almost fifteen pages over here should give someone cause to take notice.

I don't see why BT doesn't drop this guy. advertiser or not, this guy has miffed WAY too many people. And then to come over here and defend a bad decision, and try to put the blame elsewhere... no, This guy is a scam artist. Too many coincidences for just having a bad day, or bad luck.

As for the Federal Librarian buisiness, sure, whatever. The bottom line here is that you all have a shady trader on your hands and instead of dealing with it, some parties are washing thier hands of the guy. I looked over most of the threads, and they basiclly come down to cop out.
For this guy, its someone elses fault, and if you pay me it'll make it all better. Thats bull, and everyone knows it. Hes doing this on purpose, and it has been going on as long, and will continue, as long as he can string you all along.

Time to pull his library card.

Guess you missed the part of Lin's post where he said he was trying to get items owed from TDZ also. He's in the same boat as Iorek and the others.

There is more going on here than I will make publicly available.  It is the professional thing to do, and those of you in business will understand that One Does Not Air One's Dirty Laundry In Public.

The relevant parties are aware of what's going on and the decisions that have been made for quite longer than this silliness, so don't anyone get a swelled head that you influenced anything.  You didn't and you haven't. 

People who have asked nicely and agreed to confidentiality have been advised of the situation.  The rest of you can wait until it is resolved.

Now, regarding the Drop Zone threads on the Bad Trader Forum:  I am a firm believer in Equal Protection Under the Law.  Drop Zone is entitled to the same protections that everyone else would - not because he's a paying advertiser but because that is the way I designed the site rules.  I'm not bending the rules because he owes me stuff.
That means all threads and all posts must follow the posting rules, which can be summed up thusly:  Factual Information Only.  The federal librarian bit means this:  I hold two master's degrees in informatics and library science.  I know how easy it is to manipulate information and twist it around, so I require a high standard of evidence.  I verify, or ask to have verification for, just about everything I'm told.  In my opinion, anyone who accepts something on blind faith is asking to be taken advantage of.
 Yeah, that stance means some jackholes get away but the ones who get nailed are *proven* with a standard of evidence that one can successfully file US mail fraud charges.

In closing, if you have a beef with Drop Zone take it up with him.  It's not Bartertown's problem any more than it is Dakka's.

Iorek: Sorry for advising you to post a BTR on BT about your order. I thought you were one of the several people WAY, WAY back on pg 6 or so who mentioned that they had been directed thru BT. My info was incorrect and it led to way too much drama.

Drama Pajama Par-tay! *dances*

No problem, Ancient Society, I know you were trying to help.

As a member of the OT Brigade, I'm usually trying to stir things up a bit, but the one time I wasn't, I end up with a 15+ page thread and mods from Bartertown joining in!  Sheesh!

So, apologies for all that were dragged into Charybdis here.

Group hug guys?

Posted By Linrandir on 03/20/2007 4:48 PM
There is more going on here than I will make publicly available.  It is the professional thing to do, and those of you in business will understand that One Does Not Air One's Dirty Laundry In Public.

The relevant parties are aware of what's going on and the decisions that have been made for quite longer than this silliness, so don't anyone get a swelled head that you influenced anything.  You didn't and you haven't. 

People who have asked nicely and agreed to confidentiality have been advised of the situation.  The rest of you can wait until it is resolved.

*on the professionalism of airing one's dirty laundry in public*
In PR this is called making a crisis release -- it's what you do to reassure and inform your clients when something is greatly impacting your company and your ability to serve them.

*on the relevant parties being aware of what's going on*
The relevant parties are the clients. 15 pages here of internet anger suggest to me that they are not much aware at all.

I'd like to echo Starslayer here:

<table width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="4" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td class="afpostbody" colspan="2">

People deserve 1)the items they ordered in timely manner,2) decent communication if a problem arises,3) good customer service or 4)a REFUND.

</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="afpostattach" colspan="2"> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table>

Well, I'm not a member of Barter Town ( BT ) and from reading the various posts, especially from the Top MOD over there, I must say I happy NOT to be a member.

When I look at the tolerance and understanding the MODS from Dakka have given this situation, and compare it to the "crap" I'm reading from the BT mob, all I can say is its disgraceful.

Linrandir

It seems to me that the only reason you've stepped down from your mighty horse and posted on Dakka is to defend the "good" name of BT?!?! And you talk about "washing your dirty laundry in public"......I find it laughable that you suggest that "certain" members of your website are privvy to whats going on and the rest can wait.....well, again, thats support right there! You almost make it sound as it the "masses" who have been ripped off by TDZ are at fault.

I also find it offensive that you have the cheek to use words like silliness in relation to this thread, when in actual fact its your comments that have helped to direct the turn in thread direction. If you've got everything so "sorted" over at BT, then why come onto another forum feeling a need to defend yourself?

Is there a reason this hate fest hasn't been locked down yet? All interested parties are up to speed. There is no need to keep this cyber-war going for everyone to see...

Actually, I'm not up to speed.  I've called numerous times and sent several emails to Robert in the last few days, and he STILL hasn't responded.  He's got until Friday before I open up a PayPal dispute on him (I've already emailed him cancelling the transaction and requesting a refund).

And this is a personal message to Robert:  On your ad, it says, "The Game is about Battles - buying your models shouldn't be!".  You forgot to add, "But it will be, chumps.  You'll never hear from me again!".

I have to say that I am a bit stunned by what is transpiring here.
First and Foremost, you cannot hold an entire board responsible for the actions of one of its advitisers.  That would be like holding NBC responsible for a faulty Ford truck you bought because they ran Ford commercials!
Reading both boards, i have seen no outright favoritism by either board one way or another, and to accuse either board of such is just plain stupid.
NEVER forget that in all cases like this, it is not anyones fault except the person or people who fail to live up to their obligations.  Holding others liable for their actions seems more like lashing out angrily at anyone associated with the guilty party to try to get some sort of satisfaction.  It accomplishes nothing but does cause 15 page threads where people get pissed at each other!
And to those who have no stake in this, as in they are not having a dispute with TDZ, yet they continue to stir up trouble... you guys are the main problem here, and you know who you are.

Why is it always people with low post counts that try to tell us we're all stupid?

Chuck

Well, I guess we did shop with TDZ....so technically, yeah...he's right, we are in fact stupid!

Posted By Anglacon on 03/21/2007 6:26 AM
I have to say that I am a bit stunned by what is transpiring here.
First and Foremost, you cannot hold an entire board responsible for the actions of one of its advitisers.  That would be like holding NBC responsible for a faulty Ford truck you bought because they ran Ford commercials!
Reading both boards, i have seen no outright favoritism by either board one way or another, and to accuse either board of such is just plain stupid.
NEVER forget that in all cases like this, it is not anyones fault except the person or people who fail to live up to their obligations.  Holding others liable for their actions seems more like lashing out angrily at anyone associated with the guilty party to try to get some sort of satisfaction.  It accomplishes nothing but does cause 15 page threads where people get pissed at each other!
And to those who have no stake in this, as in they are not having a dispute with TDZ, yet they continue to stir up trouble... you guys are the main problem here, and you know who you are.

Awesome logic there.....

So if you know someone is ripping people off,you should turn a blind eye? Great.......

Well, lets email Ticknor and tell him its OK to reopen his Btown account then. Hey,we know he ripped people off,but according to you,its not our problem......

Your example makes no sense. If NBC ran commercial for someone selling a product that they did not deliver,I doubt they would keep running his commercials.

So to go with your slowed example....if you were renting an apartment to someone who was selling crack to kids,you would be OK with that? Hey,he pays his rent,so what do you care?

Isnt looking out a little for your fellow gamer what these "trading websites" are all about??

People are pissed off because they didn't get their money/items. Gee,big surprise. Well lets all just keep quiet about it. That will really get something done.....

I must say, I'm confused by certain people asking for the thread to be locked. Why? if you have no interest in the thread or it offends you, simply don't take part in it! Why are you trying to be mini MODS?

If the moderators here have seen fit to allow this thread to continue, then who are you to question their judgement. In a similar vain, if you have not dealt with TDZ or have axe to grind why are you taking part in the first place.

Can I suggest that all those who are "demanding" for this thread to close....MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS please keep your long pointy nose out of things that don't concern you! You're not helping this, ongoing, situation with your puritanical pleas, and you are the ones helping this thread reach cult status.

Good gravy, I hope not.

In before lock!

Posted By STARSLAYER on 03/21/2007 11:19 AM

So to go with your slowed example....if you were renting an apartment to someone who was selling crack to kids,you would be OK with that? Hey,he pays his rent,so what do you care?

Isnt looking out a little for your fellow gamer what these "trading websites" are all about??

People are pissed off because they didn't get their money/items. Gee,big surprise. Well lets all just keep quiet about it. That will really get something done.....

Do you even bother reading what was written? I said the only person responsible is the one who failed to live up to his obligations! That would be TDZ.
If BT got paid by TDZ BEFORE this all happened, you can't get mad at them for running his ad.  If they took money for his ad NOW, I would say, ok... that was not in the best interest of the gaming community.

But to blame them for "supporting" someone they obviously are not, well that seems rather vindictive. (Right chuckyhol?)

-Anglacon

Angalacon- Bartertown is STILL running Drop Zone ads after all this. I'm not saying they are responsible for what he does,but to me,it is WRONG that he is still a Bartertown sponsor.

Hey lets run ads for businesses that screw our members!

When they do screw you over,lets keep running the ad!

To me that is plain WRONG.

Its like standing by a road where the bridge is out, and directing traffic to go that way.

 

There is no reason to lock this thread.

If it was going to be locked, it would have been locked ages ago.

But I'm done with it now!

?

You get your product or a refund?

Posted By beowulfthehunter on 03/21/2007 2:10 PM
I had a few personal attacks to make, but shooting ducks in a barrel is wrong, but oh so fun.

As to the people complaining about TDZ still advertising on BT. TDZ PAID to run those adds. If BT was to pull those adds they would be under breach of contract. Unless TDZ signed a contract satating that if there where poor practices his adds could be pulled BT has their hands tied.
Consider this situation, my Cousin was killed by a drunk driver. You do not see my family complaining to NBC to pull Beer adds because she was killed. Same situation here.

Now should the lenght of TDZs advertising come up for renewal BT would be smart if they said no, but that is not for us to say.

My testes receded because of the stupidity of your post, expect a class action lawsuit!

It isn't dakkas fault, or B-towns fault that I got ripped off (i'm only received about 50% of my stuff).

I'm not blaming any website or any person, because I chose to buy the stuff - no one forced me to. That said, i think people and websites should seriously think about allowing Robert to get deal from their site or advertise on there, because basically, he's ripping a lot of people off.

Our annoyance (or at least mine) is with Robert - no one, or nothing else. Linrandir is doing his job as usual, heaping blame onto him will do and achieve nothing.

As to my retorts with beowulfthehunter, it's because he's an idiot, not because I blame him.

Chuck

Posted By beowulfthehunter on 03/21/2007 2:10 PM
I had a few personal attacks to make, but shooting ducks in a barrel is wrong, but oh so fun.

As to the people complaining about TDZ still advertising on BT. TDZ PAID to run those adds. If BT was to pull those adds they would be under breach of contract. Unless TDZ signed a contract satating that if there where poor practices his adds could be pulled BT has their hands tied.
Consider this situation, my Cousin was killed by a drunk driver. You do not see my family complaining to NBC to pull Beer adds because she was killed. Same situation here.

Now should the lenght of TDZs advertising come up for renewal BT would be smart if they said no, but that is not for us to say.

LMAO!!

Yeah,I can just see it now." TDZ-"Your honor, Bartertown pulled my ad, I can't keep ripping off their members!! I want to sue!!!" What if Btown just puts a link with all the Bad trader threads/reports along with the TDZ ad? If Btown doesn't have a clause for their sponsors,they should add one.

Beowulfthehunter-my condolences for the loss of your grandmother.

TDZ PAIDfor those ads? Just like TDZ's customers paid for their products..... Everyone who hasnt gotten all their items/refund should contact TDZ local Police Department and the Better Business Bureau,along with Paypal or the credit card co. you used to pay TDZ.

Has ANYONE AT ALL gotten ALL their items/refund from TDZ???

I think he was saying it wasn't serving any real purpose for his problem anymore. Hopefully paypal can help him out, or failing that, his credit card company (if he used one with paypal) can get his money back.

Exactly what Nuwisha said.

Are you going to mock me too, beowulfthehunter?  Ya forgot Chaos Warhounds.

Posted By beowulfthehunter on 03/21/2007 4:42 PM
Hey chuck, want to play a game of 40k my Space marines vs. your Necrons...oh wait you can't. Del how bout against your Dark Angels....oh yeah not you eather, sucks to be you guys...lol

Harsh.

You sir get the troll of the year-so-far award.

For that I wish doom upon you!

   <------- Stamp of Doom

Yisgadal v'yis'kadash shemei rabboh...

Posted By beowulfthehunter on 03/21/2007 4:42 PM
Hey chuck, want to play a game of 40k my Space marines vs. your Necrons...oh wait you can't. Del how bout against your Dark Angels....oh yeah not you eather, sucks to be you guys...lol

Yeah, you're absolutely right! It does suck to be in my position right now, and hence this thread. Hopefully no one else will get into this state with TDZ, and if possible a lesson can be learn't by all parties, traders and buyers alike!

I hope you don't find yourself in a similar situation. As for your challenge, I have a healthy army of Dark Angels I could use, the box set from TDZ was to supplement my exsiting force......still, you win some you lose some.

Im not Robert, but I bet none of y'all are gettin your money or goods back!

The thread stays for now. Personally, I'd like to see the thread at the top of the page until everyone with outstanding orders with Robert either gets their products or their refunds. Until then the thread should keep going as a public warning and as a spur to TDZ.

Quit the flames and spam though. Seriously. I'm deleting a pile of them now.  This thread should just be civil discussion of the complaints and issues.  

New Information!

I just recieved an email from Paypal, asking whether things were now sorted between me and Robert. I explained that even though he put a "delivery number" in an email to Paypal, I still haven't recieved anything yet......of this I'm not surprised, he probably sent a matchbox overseas and gave them that shipping number....probably to buy himself some time!

Anyway, I've also included this thread in my response, so that paypal can see the extent of Roberts bad dealings.

Fingers crossed I see refund.

Oh yeah, post a thread from a message board, that is sure going to get your stuff back...you can fight this all you want, you will probalby not be getting your minis. PP is not in this to protect you and even if they do, you will only get back what is in his PP fund and if he is a smart amn he will have bled that account dry.

Yes, Robert...erm, sorry, Beowulfthehunter, you've probably emptied your account already! However, you are obviously not aware of the fact that Paypal can reach into the bank account that is registered with the Paypal account.

But even if you have been smart, which I doubt....how many new sales have you had since this has been going on. That death in your family must have hit you more than anyone else, as its cost you your business....

I think it's safe to say that Beowulf isn't Robert. They've got very different locations on B-town. Ironicly,  Beowulf posted a Bad Trader Report (9th one from the stickies) a month ago because it took too long for a trade to get to him. Ironic x2, the person he BTR'd had been away for the weekend and wasn't able to answer the PMs right away. Funny how He posts BTRs over nothing yet thinks you guys who have been robbed should suck it up.

Well, whoever he is, it looks like my stuff has turned up! I have a massive customs charge to pay, which means I would have been better off buying from GW, but considering the crap that I've had to go through I might just swallow the charge and be doen with the whole thing.

I'll find out tomorrow if it is my item, and not just a brick! I'll post the results then!

Regards
Delephont

I have finally recieved my stuff, complete and in good condition. No doubt the pressure applied did the job.

Good luck to those still waiting, you have my continued support.

Regards
Delephont

I'm glad you got your stuff, Delephont.  I still haven't heard a single thing from Robert, but did notice that he was posting on Bartertown this morning.

I still haven't got my stuff, nor heard from Robert. Of course, my order was made late February, so I can understand waiting longer than the rest.

Waiting longer than a few weeks is unacceptable. My sympathies to those who have already purchased from this guy. Anyone buying/ trading with him from now on is looking to get ripped off.

Posted By Iorek on 03/24/2007 7:47 AM
I still haven't heard a single thing from Robert, but did notice that he was posting on Bartertown this morning.

Hey, he has every reason to be offended that people want proof that he donated the proceeds of his DA Box Army Raffle. After all, he has a proven track record of good communication and timely service. Right Iorek and Delephont?

Big surprize.

ANOTHER Bad trader thread was put up about The Drop Zone on Bartertown.

People need to contact the Better Business Bureau and press mail fraud charges on this guy.

Unfortunately, none of the people who opened those BTR's have left a bad reference. 40 points off his rating might get his attention as he seems able to weather the BTR storms. It might also help people he approaches on B-town avoid the same predicament. Isn't that what the trading references are for?

I said the same thing.....why are these people not posting a negative reference?!? The only thing I can think of is they are afraid that if they do,they won't get their stuff. If you have to wait 3+ months and have to post a bunch of BTR just to get what you already paid for...then it is a BAD deal. They should be contacting the BBB, calling the TDZ local PD and filing mail fraud.

 

IOREK, cool sig, everyone TDZ has ripped off should use it.

But how does he really feel?

Well,

Time to tell everyone how this turned out for me. I got my stuff - everything, plus some. On the side of me getting what I paid for, he scores 5/5.

Now, for the other things about his business. As to delivery times, 2/5. He did get me my stuff, but it took fricking ages, and took him two different lots to get it to me.

Secondly, his overall service. 1/5. Robert failed to respond to a huge amount of emails, pm's, or phone messages. I only got a confirmation number (that didn't work) after catching him at work. He's a nice guy on the phone and in emails, but he doesn't respond enough, and he isn't professional enough.

Overall, 8/15. Ouch. Go the warstore anyone, it has failed to truly disappoint me.

Chuck

Chuckyhol I'm glad you got your stuff, but ALOT of others havent.

Getting your items shouldnt be like pulling teeth. Look what people have to go through just to get whats owed to them.

Shouldn't even...

What about the rest? Who's still waiting?

Anyone satisfied with the service?
Any critiques for Robert to grow from this?

Posted By Flagg07 on 03/28/2007 6:50 AM

Getting your items should be like pulling teeth

Shouldn't even...

What about the rest? Who's still waiting?

Anyone satisfied with the service?
Any critiques for Robert to grow from this?

Grow from this?!? Are you kidding me?(maybe grow a forked tongue)

  Only a total fool would order from the TDZ.  I feel sorry for those poor unsuspecting souls who dont see all the threads about TDZ on Dakka/Btown ,and order from him anyway.

Yes, I was actually....

I still haven't heard word one; I've got a PayPal dispute open now, though.

Iorek

The Paypal dispute took some time, but it did seem to do the trick, and I'm based in England.....so it should work just as well for you as you also have other more "direct" avenues you can try, like local police and FBI etc.

Contrary to certain comments made by certain idiotic individuals, referencing this thread did go a long way towards letting Paypal know just how bad this guy's business dealings are, so don't hesitate to use it!

Good luck, although you really shouldn't need it.

Well, I've registered here now simply to post in this thread.

In mid January I place an order for US$150.79 worth of BFG stuff with Dropzone. He'd been really good with me, as my order changed a couple of times before it was payed for. The last I heard from him was the second of February.

I have emailed him, every two weeks since the 2nd of feb and had no reply, i've PM'd him on Bartertown as well. Still no reply. I'm more than willing to still give him all benefit of the doubt, and I assume there is simply a technical issue stopping him getting in touch with me, as i'd REALLY like to get my bfg stuff. I've stayed up late at night to try and call him, though i've had no answer and have pretty much given up. If I don't have a response from him by tomorrow morning i'll be filing a paypal dispute.

It's worth noting that I've order stuff on behalf of a few people, and was until recently unemployed. I'm having to work extra hours to reimburse the guys who were a part of the order with me. The irony is, the time i've spent extra at work has come out of the time I spend writing the EA and BFG army builder files, which has earned me a heap of spam emails from people when I miss the deadlines I set for bug fixes.

Yes, I'd say there is a technical issue. He's probably laughing too hard on his way to the bank to be able to use a keyboard.

Sorry to say it, but if you think this is simply a technical error, you are sadly mistaken. It's so bad that the Mods at Bartertown have decided to cancel his advertising.

You need to do more than open a PP dispute. I'm sure his account is dry by now. I'd follow the guidance of Bartertown members and file a police report in your town and his.

I'm sorry that you guys haven't received your stuff guys. Robert has showed he is incapable of holding up his end of the bargain, and he now deserves everything he gets.

If you paid using a credit card, go through them to reverse the charges. Even most debit/credit cards have buyer protection these days for stuff like this while Paypal charges for resolving this and will happily leave your arse hanging if it's too much of a hassle as they have no real motive to help you while (credit card companies have you, their customer, forefront in their mind, all those tasty interest rates & fees are how they make their money).  Also, file a complaint with your local police department and with the postal service, as this constitutes mail fraud, something Robert has a clear track record of.

I don't let crap like this slide for two weeks, much less two months. The reason jerkbags like this get away with it is because they rely on abusing your trust.

Hey guys, come on....Robert did have a death in the family!! He never needs to post anything to anyone ever again!

Seeing as the problem started well before this happened, and it continues well after a reasonable mourning period, I'm quite confident that "the death" was a ploy to buy some time. Yes Robert, you are a liar.

Sorry to those of you who have lost $$. Robert, owner of The Drop Zone is a scumbag and a thief. Thanks for the post Iorek. Rest assured that The Drop Zone has missed out on several sales (free money) thanks to this thread. Sleep well knowing you've done your part. Again, sorry you got screwed.

I think Delephont was being facetious, as he was also someone that was being screwed by robert.

Robert should be formally charged,prosecuted,and in put in jail. He is STEALING,plain and simple. He's just using the internet to do it. If your local hobby shop took your money and stole from you like this I'm sure it would be treated differently.

Everyone who didnt get their stuff should do all they can to file charges and report this guy to the BBB. He has a brick/mortar store,he shouldnt be allowed to  continue "business as usual" after all the people he screwed on Dakka and Bartertown,and who knows where else.

These "problems" could have easily been taken care of, he CHOSE not to. It doesnt take long to issue a refund. At least now finally Bartertown has cancelled his advertising.

My PayPal dispute resolves on Friday; if I don't get all my money back then, I'm going to the FBI and the IC3.

Yes, indeed, I admit I was being facetious....

@ Iorek

I hope your paypal dispute works as well as mine did, but let me point something out. I think my Paypal dispute worked because Robert must have been under pressure to resolve or have his account emptied. I did belive that Paypal could legally reach into a persons bank account, but I now belive this is not the case! Robert may indeed have emptied his paypal account by now, which means it would be hard to reclaim money from him. Paypal could / would guarantee you up to $1000 dollars if you'd bought your item over eBay, but failing that its up to how much wonga he has in his account!

Sorry if this is not the best news, and I hope I'm wrong on all these points and you recover your funds, but it might be worth checking for yourself, if you haven't done so already!

Robert from The Drop Zone, what do you think? Should internet theft be treated as a middle class sport? and should inmates be given access to sky T.V and online porn?

.....sorry, being facetious again

I must not have noticed that it was you that posted it... No way I'd have missed the sarcasm from someone who'd been screwed by this POS.

Well, as of this moment he's been reported to the AFP, the BBB and the FBI internet fraud unit. As well as openening a paypal dispute. Last night (well, extremely early in the morning for me) I managed to call his store, he's finally got his voicemail fixed. So I left a message, no replies, it's a pity, as he was really cheap and I'd much rather get the stuff i ordered than to drag him through all this, but it's too late now.

Posted By knthrak on 04/02/2007 4:13 PM
Well, as of this moment he's been reported to the AFP, the BBB and the FBI internet fraud unit. As well as openening a paypal dispute. Last night (well, extremely early in the morning for me) I managed to call his store, he's finally got his voicemail fixed. So I left a message, no replies, it's a pity, as he was really cheap and I'd much rather get the stuff i ordered than to drag him through all this, but it's too late now.

Well, considering the multitude of alleged litigation pending against him, I doubt you'll hear anything until his lawyer removes the gag from his mouth.

That's the trouble with taking legal action in a situation like this. Forcing his hand through monetary means or the threat of legal action can work, but once you actually deal the law card everything screeches to a halt.

Not that action should not be taken, mind you, it's just that your expectations of the realistic timetable and results must change along with the change in the overall situation.

Actually, everything screeched to a halt when they sent their money. Now it's time for him to get his due.

BTW Loki, do you have any inside knowledge of this POS's current situation?

I wish! Then I might be in a position to help.

Nope, I'm simply attempting to distill truth from the internet betwixt bouts of laughter over the title of the "PP hot on the heels of GW" thread.

Immature? Yes, but funny nonetheless!

Youre next post will make you a "1337" haxxoR Lolz

Honestly, I don't even care about the $33 anymore; it's the principle of the thing.  I'd like to see him get nailed to the wall for his atrocious behavior;  I'm not tolerant of liars and thieves.

Since I'm a DCM, I don't see the ads.  Do The Drop Zone ads still show up here?

I haven't seen them since this started (my DCM status has expired). Drop Zone: The New New Wave!

New Wave, eh? I actually knew a guy who got his stuff from them.

New Wave sent me double what I ordered once.. Back when they did the army boxes all the time I got a dark eldar and eldar boxed set, they had a computer hiccup and sent two of each.

Tried calling and emailing and they never responded to either. Gave up after a month of trying to reach em.

Yay free army boxes!

For the love of God. Are you saying that you got 4 army boxes total with 2 for free or just 1 & 1? Not that 1 free army box is a bad thing...

Back on topic:

The Drop Zone sucks.

I feel as though I haven't done enough to support the bandwagon.

Okay... here goes. Ahem...

Global warming is responsible for The Drop Zone's failure to fill their orders.

Sorry, but all the other excuses have already been used.

*Raises eyebrows*
Guess I'll keep buying from brick and mortar stores so...

I would have, except they couldn't/wouldn't get what I was looking for.  Neither could the Warstore, for that matter.  I just didn't want to pay $10 shipping straight from GW.

Hmmm. I assume these kinds of things don't happen with Gw's online store?

Are you trying to imply some sort of morality lesson here?  Sorta seems like it.

No! I was seriously wondering, having never used any of these services. I don't own a credit card and always buy from a shop through a deep distrust of giving my details to others.

Seriously, that's all it is. No moral lesson.
Though maybe I should try and think of one and get back to you.

I'm guessing the moral of this story is don't trust The Drop Zone, in fact he should carry a card with a PUBLIC FINANCE WARNING

I've used several online resources to get my gaming fix.

BWB is great. Delivery is fast and the service itself is fantastic. I'm very glad not to buy a whole sprue for 1 bit... The only deficiency I've had with them is that sometimes the bits I order are not the bits I get. Ex- Ordered 16 Beakey heads- Received 14 Beaks and 2 regular. The good part was that they fixed it immediately. I use them regularly.

GW Online- The convenience of the shopping cart, but no discount, ever. I've always gotten what I ordered pretty darn quick. Any issues I've ever had with any of their stuff has always been fixed. Miscast? Fixed. Wrong order? Fixed. I've never needed to provide proof, other than box code, and never needed to ship anything back.

Warstore- 1 indirect dealing. I traded on Bartertown. The other guy bought some stuff through WS and had it shipped to me. It took longer than I expected, but it did get here. I'm talking 2 weeks longer, not The Drop Zone long... I would buy from the Warstore though. He has a proven track record of great prices and customer satisfaction.

I'm sure every store has had it's fair share of lumps. Everyone makes mistakes. Professionals fix the issue and satisfy their customers. The Drop Zone, OTOH, clouds up the issues with fake tracking #'s and blatant lies. Here's to The Drop Zone finding a new boss. He obviously doesn't have what it takes to get the job done himself.

Here's your moral lesson:

Airtight says,
"Never lift the head of someone who's fainted... Keep him flat and brace his legs. Now, loosen his clothes and use a wet cloth.

Now you know, and knowing is half the battle!"

Sounds kinky Blue Loki....

Posted By Da Boss on 04/04/2007 9:08 AM
No! I was seriously wondering, having never used any of these services. I don't own a credit card and always buy from a shop through a deep distrust of giving my details to others.

Seriously, that's all it is. No moral lesson.
Though maybe I should try and think of one and get back to you.

Heh, no worries.  It is rather hard to determine someone's tone with the written word, and I'm used to people being snarky in this thread.  That's all.

No problem, I thought that might be it.
Good luck with your quest for a refund or models, whatever it is you want now...

I thought you'd like that. Here's another to keep your motor runnin'.

Torpedo says,
"Open and close your legs like a scissor. Keep up a steady rhythm. Now cup your hands downward and move them in a figure eight motion...





Never play around water alone.

Now you know, and knowing is half the battle!"

Heh.

www.youtube.com/watch

Funny.

To those who care.....Bartertown has banned Drop Zone and are terminating his ad. Good riddance. He's also on a "bad trader sticky" so hopefully he can't do this to anyone else.

You want a morality lesson? How about this?

If TDZ is nearby,don't drop the soap!

Flagg: Yes, Four for the price of two. They were on clearance also, so they were $128 or so for each of the two.

So I have just read this entire Post... and just to let people know who still might be on TDZ's side.

5 1/2 weeks since payment made.. no package.

12 emails to the rlecomputers@bellsouth.net email and both email addresses on his web page.   No response

10 phone calls, (the number listed on the paypal account does not work)  For several weeks I couldn't leave a voice mail because it was full and I have left 5 messages when it was working.  No reply.

Made a claim to get my money back from paypal, resulting in more 6 emails to TDZ ...  No reply.....   $0 refunded.

(TDZ now does not do paypal as buying option.)

Delays are one thing. Family emergencies happen.  People have a bad day..

but you read all of that and tell me I shouldn't worry, complain or bi7ch a little..

then you deserve to do business with him..

I think me and anyone else who actually managed to get something out of TDZ were extremely lucky. I feel sorry for the others who haven't gotten their stuff.....

I can imagine that Robert has now dicthed the circuit, after all he's made little or no attempt to even defend himslef on here, one lame assed post about his granny ( who probably hates him! ).

It seems more and more people are coming out with "bad deal stories" regarding TDZ. I was thinking it might be worth generating a list of members here who have lost out to TDZ and how much they have lost, and thereby calculate the extent of the theft....it might give those who are trying to persue legal action a bigger stick with which to beat TDZ with.

If I do not hear back from him by Next Tuesday. (6 weeks)   I will contact eCrater about his online practices and do what someone earlier posted  about posting a report on the FBI web page about internet Fraud.  I just read the info on their page and this does fall under that "category" for such a claim

 

I am not threateningTDZ in any way it is just what I have been left with.  (a Single email could have gone a long way in stopping all of this, but of course.. no reply)

So I will be first and say I am out $159.90  Shawn R.

I'll go next.

I am out $56.25

I hope you never get them, because you just called them "Crons."

I also reported him to the BBB, they're already investigating. I highly recommend you report him now, rather than wait.

Yeah, at this point, there is no reason to wait a moment longer. In addition to the BBB, also contact your local post office as this qualifies as mail fraud, your local police department and/or the FBI (I guess the latter would be more appropriate since it was an interstate transaction). Also, if Paypal won't refund you, go to your bank/credit card co. and ask them to reverse the charge, most have far superior buyer protection, especially compared to PayPal (who suck donkey balls when it comes to this).

Posted By nyarlathotep667 on 04/05/2007 6:29 PM
Yeah, at this point, there is no reason to wait a moment longer. In addition to the BBB, also contact your local post office as this qualifies as mail fraud, your local police department and/or the FBI (I guess the latter would be more appropriate since it was an interstate transaction). Also, if Paypal won't refund you, go to your bank/credit card co. and ask them to reverse the charge, most have far superior buyer protection, especially compared to PayPal (who suck donkey balls when it comes to this).

No offense to the people who may lose money, but at this point you all have to take a deep breath, report this transaction to whoever you feel is interested (BBB, FBI, USPS, etc...), try and get your money back, and walk away .... the angst is a little high in some posters.

I lost over $10,000 when a company I purchased (ordered) something from went out of business and declared chapter-11.  Before that happened there were months and months of run-around as my inquiries were either deflected or ignored. Sound familliar?

There was an FBI file open on this vendor as more and more customers failed to get their merchandise. I even had the dubious honor of talking with an FBI and USPS agent who personally took all the particulars of  my transaction.  The BBB was informed, state agencies were involved.  There was even an Internet support group formed called "ICONs survivors"  who kept tabs on the progress of promises made by the vendor, any orders delivered, and legal notifications.  (It reminds me a lot of this thread, except people were even more upset than you are. )

To make a long story short, the vendor (ICONs), went out of business, declared chapter-11, and walked away. 

The best thing to do, if you're unsatisfied, is request your money refunded and quickly follow up with any order protection policy of your credit card, eBay, etc.  Getting mad, getting organized, has only limited satisfaction when the business goes bankrupt and the person/people you're upset with move on. Then all you're left with is getting screwed.   Chapter-11 is a hollow victory.

Bottom line, get your money back. In the future check with the BBB BEFORE you order.  There is no other short term relief.

 

 

Good luck with the credit card. My experience is that if you authorized the CC transaction, you're screwed.

The more I read the more I wish there were better safeguards against this sort of crap!

Posted By Breotan on 04/06/2007 11:34 AM
Good luck with the credit card. My experience is that if you authorized the CC transaction, you're screwed.

It depends on the card.  Merchants use merchant codes that can be tracked by the credit card  company... who can then red flag bad vendors or handle their accounts differently.  This allows some cards to offer payment protection.  The card I have now offers this.  Note: It's no less irritating than using PayPals similar service for verified accounts (I think you have to use a cash transfer for the PayPal service to kick in).   

In a sea of crummy options, it's the best one if it's available to you.  It's not like these people get put into jail.  In fact bad-faith businesses can use the courts to legally protect their personal assets.  The worst thing that can happen is Chapter-7,  but in a long list of creditors refunds hardly ever make it to frauded customers.

Ironically, the more pressure you put on a marginal business, the harder it is for them to conduct business, and the less likely you will see what you purchased or a refund.  It's a funny catch-22. 

The worst part for me is the Lack of communication. If he could have replied to any of the emails, messages etc.. Would have made a diffrence.

Good luck guys.
I hope you get your money or your models.

Posted By Breotan on 04/06/2007 11:34 AM
Good luck with the credit card. My experience is that if you authorized the CC transaction, you're screwed.

Well, not really.  You authorized a cc transaction, meaning that you said "I will pay you 'x' for 'y' products."  If they don't supply you with the products, then really, there was no transaction.  You didn't say, "I will pay you 'x' and you can ignore me and take my money." 

Call your cc company and get them to issue a chargeback.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Posted By knthrak on 04/05/2007 3:31 PM
I also reported him to the BBB, they're already investigating. I highly recommend you report him now, rather than wait.

The BBB is a con game. They get complaints about a company and put them on a list. Then they goto the company, show them a list, and get paid a fee to take them off the list. Don't waste your time.

Posted By General Hobbs on 04/09/2007 6:20 PM

Posted By knthrak on 04/05/2007 3:31 PM
I also reported him to the BBB, they're already investigating. I highly recommend you report him now, rather than wait.

The BBB is a con game. They get complaints about a company and put them on a list. Then they goto the company, show them a list, and get paid a fee to take them off the list. Don't waste your time.

Better than sitting on your thumb doing nothing when you get ripped off. Call the BBB,FBI,PD ,anybody that will listen.

Good. An additional kick in the ding dong for Robert the thief.

I heard the same thing about the BBB back when New Wave was still in business, or rather still stealing everyone's money.

Posted By Nuwisha on 04/09/2007 8:36 PM
I heard the same thing about the BBB back when New Wave was still in business, or rather still stealing everyone's money.

It took New Wave six months to get me one figure. I do miss the sight though....they had pics of everything under the sun.

What else am I supposed to do. Paypal hasn't managed to do anything so far, I've had no reply to emails, haven't had him answer the phone and live 16 hours or more by plane away.

I think it might constitued mail fraud....

Posted By knthrak on 04/10/2007 2:15 AM
What else am I supposed to do. Paypal hasn't managed to do anything so far, I've had no reply to emails, haven't had him answer the phone and live 16 hours or more by plane away.

I'll be honest with you, if The Drop Zone hadn't come up with my army, and Paypal hadn't agreed that I'd been hard done by I would have had to write the money off. There would have been little else I could have done....I would have lost $198!

Give Paypal a chance, they do say it may take up to a month to recover your money, I'm not sure what the FBI can do, yeah they could bang Robert in chains and get him on a Texas road gang, but that ain't gonna get you your money or your miniatures.......

You could take solace in the fact that his name is poo poo and his business could be going down the tubes.

Posted By Flagg07 on 04/10/2007 1:57 PM
You could take solace in the fact that his name is poo poo and his business could be going down the tubes.

Even still, i'd prefer my Emperor Battleship.

I also contacted the above agencies as well as eCrater the company who does his online business. Hopefully his account will be removed. After giving him 2 months to reply I am done being nice. I wil be driving down to See him next weekend with papers to appear in small claims court. failure to appeare or respnd will mean a felony warrent. Sure they won't drive down to get him or anythign but if he ever gets pulled over.. files papers, gets a new license.. this will be on his record.

All because he is not smart enough to admit he messed up.. then again.. the man is a thief. (he will get all of this headache all because he stole $169 dollars from me..)

Record it please.

You should dress up in a cheap suit, get some cheesy sunglasses, and a baseball bat.  Then wail on a random car in front of his shop and scream, "This is what happens, Robert!  This is what happens when you EDIT a stranger in the EDIT!"

(For those of you who don't get it, it's a joke.  Go about your business, or rent The Big Lebowski).

Much as I love the Big Lebowski, watch the language.

Now that's funny...

Could you please ask him about the money he owes me (Tim Huggins) for some BFG stuff, or preferably if he could just post it?

Do you want to screw this guy over for about $20??

Get a list of bad deals and people TDZ has ripped-off, along with all the items and money he owes people. Go to your local Office Depot and get a 100 copies. Send one to every Hobby/Gaming/Comic store in his area. Find a person who is near his Game shop, put a copy under every car windshield wiper in a 3 block radius.

I'm sure the other local Hobby shops would love some negative information on the competition. With all the flyers in his area,word of mouth will do the rest.

F^@#^$# the Drop Zone!!

I started a thread in another section of Dakka. I knew this thread was here someplace, but I couldn't find it.

Some were so kind as to criticize me for not posting here. Others were kind enough to actually give me a link.

I posted the following info in my thread.

You'll note that, if you follow my link to Bartertown, my thread there lists his home phone number.

Here's the info from the other thread:

=========================================================

=========================================================

Here's some info I dug up on the web site:

EDIT:  Erroneous info removed.

Looks like he's due on the 9th. Anyone feeling frisky enough grab his domain name via some service like Godaddy.com and park it to an empty page?

Only problem is that his website is http://www.dropzoneonline.ecrater.com/

Stop trying to confuse me with the facts, damnit.

I finally received an email from Robert. We went back and forth a few emails, so far... but this is the one that started the exchange:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<table id="oTableE" style="TABLE-LAYOUT: fixed; DISPLAY: block" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" class="Content"> <tbody> <tr id="oRowSubj" style="DISPLAY: block"> <td class="CaptionE" nowrap="nowrap" unselectable="on">Subject:</td> <td class="Subject" id="oCellSubj">Re: SEND ME MY MONEY OR MY STUFF -- Important Info Inside.</td> </tr> <tr id="oRowDate" style="DISPLAY: block"> <td class="CaptionE" nowrap="nowrap" unselectable="on">Date:</td> <td id="oCellDate">4/26/2007 12:37:27 PM Central Daylight Time</td> </tr> <tr id="oRowFROM" style="DISPLAY: block"> <td class="CaptionE" nowrap="nowrap" unselectable="on">From:</td> <td id="oCellFROM">thedropzoneonline@gmail.com</td> </tr> </tbody> </table>

It makes sense with that death in the family business. I mean what better way to deal with grief than going to the Bahamas on all the money people sent him?

More excuses to buy time. Well, Im sure he had plenty of extra cash(from all the people he ripped-off) to have a nice vacation.

What a d***! Must be nice going on lavish vacations with everyone else's cash!

"Better spend it now before I get sued for scamming all those folks! Oops, I meant for messing up all those orders!"