And i have to say, the game is very, very cool. They had a prerelease copy of the book at my store today and were running demo games. While everyone else was playing, i had the book to myself and wen through it cover to cover. I do not remember everything, but i got a lot of it stored away in my head, not i just need to drudge it back out....

Please forgive any spelling or grammar errors, i am tired as hell and hung over, too lazy to edit this all that thouroughly at the moment. Also, some of the finer details may not be 100% accurate as this is off memory, but the majority of what i write should be just about verbatum.

Bur here goes:

Rules:

First off, the basic game is unchanged. You use the exact same rules for Apoc as you do normal 40K. There are only a few, small changes to streamline the game. But in terms of combat, shooting, etc. nothing has changed. In my opinion, that is a good thing as it keeps things running smoothly and the way we are used to playing.

Set up is handled thusly: both sides agree to meet in advance with x amount of points on each side. All players should have there stuff ready to go ahead of time, with army lists etc. prepared. Also, WYSIWYG is mandatory in order to keep track of who has what.

Points only need to be roughly equal. For every full 250 points difference, the side with less points gets a stratagem. Also, each army gets a stratagm for each player on their side, so two on two with one side fielding 500 less points would result in two stratagems for the bigger army, and 4 for the smaller. A list of stratagems are in the back of the book, and there are a ton of them, ranging from orbital bombardment (very nasty) to strategic redployment (allowing a section of your ofrce to move anywhere on the board), base strucutres that give boosts to your troops, ways to keep units fighting, scoring, shoot or assault better for a turn (like one unit hitting on 2+), deffensive strutures

Once the board is set up (they recomend a 8" x 6" board for anything above 3K) you roll a scatter die in the middle of the table and draw a line from the arrow to a corner of the board, then from that board edge, draw a straight line to the furthest board edge. Therefore, you usually end up with a diagnol deployment zone, but one side can be bigger than the other by quite a bit, or it could end up being prefectly diveded in half. It makes for a funky but fun and different deployment zone every game.

From that line, you extend a 6 inch no mans zone in both directions, therefore giving you a 12" zone along the dividing line where no one can deploy without a special stratagem or rule.

After this, each player puts down three objectives, one in their deployment zone, one in no man's land, and one in the opponants zone. they follow the usual rules, 12" away from a board edge and another marker.

Another thing i like and that is pretty fun, is that once both players have determines sides by dicing, each team writes down a number from one to thirty as a wager for how many minutes they are willing to take for set up, and then places it face down on the table. Once both players have done so, they are turned face up and whoever wagered the lower number deploys second but only has x amount of minutes to do so, but also gets to go first. It makes for a good laugh and further encourages the social and fun aspect of the game. WHen you only have 5 minutes to deploy 10K points you dont always make the best tactical desicions, but you do get first turn. One of the stratagems you can buy is forcing your opponants to not speak to one another or comminicate in any way during their deployment which is very funny since they can not coordinate their game plan.

Once both sides have set up, the game begines and goes until a designated time, at which point the game is over once both players have had an equal amount of turns to play. Whoever has the most objectives wins, no VP's to tally up. Scoring units within 12" of the objective take it. There are stratgems which keep a unit scoring to the last man, tanks scoring even if immobilized, etc. They are very cool additions to the game and some of them are pretty off the wall like anti plant bombs (2nd ed anyone?) that clear a section of vegetation off the board, blind bombs that for a line that no one can draw LOS through, etc. They remind me a lot of some of the stuff from the old 2nd ed box with the strategy cards.

Also, the books gives rules for super heavies, gargantuan creatures and flyers as well as the stats for a ton of them in the book.

Gargantuan creatures are nasty, they can move 12" fire everything at different targets and are strength D in HtH. however, nothing stays locked in combat with them, anyone can just run away with no penalty.  They roll three dice for difficult terrain and can reroll the results. They are insnae on the stat line too, like tough 8 with 10 wounds, etc. No mass points anymore, just wounds. They also ignore all pyschic attacks that do not directly cause damage.

Superheavy vehicles move 6" and fire everything at different targets it they wish. They can go through terrain and dont get immobilzed by it. Also, a new weapon class is in the book, "main weapon" which means that the weapon can ignore a stunned or weapon destroyed result on the dmage table on a 4+. The destruction table is horrendous! Once all structure points are gone, you roll on the dmage table, a glance gets -2 to the result, a pen has no modifier, and a D weapon gets +1. The table is, stunned, weapon destroyed, damage to engines (i cant rememner the exact term, but it cuts your movement in half, a second result is weapon destroyed), destroyed, explodes (2D6" , and appocolyptic explosion (6D6" str 9 AP2!) In our game, a Baneblade blew up like this and kill about 70 or so models, something insane. The brass scorpion gets +2 to that table, so it is pretty much a sure bet to blow up spectacularly. Also, there are three types of fields, power, void and holo. Power fields are Orky, and are armor 12 and go down to a glancing or pen hit. they cant come back. Void shields are imperial/chaos, and are the same as power fields but can come back online on a 5+ roll. Neither filed works within 12". The holo field is a 4+ invul for eldar super heavies.

Flyers are amazing! They start in reserve, and comeon anywhere on the board. Each turn they can leave the board back into reserve, or move anywhere on the table as long as it was more than 36" from where they started. They always count as shooting at side armor (to represent the top armor of a vehicle) and ignore all terrrain for the purposes of shooting unless it is area terrain and the target is in it. That means they can hit anything on the board in range. Also, they can drop the four leaf clover template as a bomb atack, or the giant flamer template as a napalm style bomb, so long as they are equiped to do so (most of them are). They can always move if they get a crew stunned result, but all immobilized results destroy them (and the model is just gone, it doenst crash on the table or anything). All ground units need a 6 to hit them, they can only be glanced and range is reduced by 12". AA guns, ignore the 6 to hit and the range reduction, and hit on normal BS instead. If the flyer can carry troops, and those troops are jumptroops, they may jump out of the tranport during any portion of its movement phase and deeptrike onto the table, very cool! (although in reality it is not different from normal deepstriking jump pack troops, i jus tlike the visual)

Also, if a vehicle is VTOL capable it can choose to operate as a fast skimmer instead of a flyer. In this mode, it counts as a scoring unit (normal flyers do not) but now is treated just as if it were a skimmer for targeting and shooting and movement. In this mode, non jump troop units may hop out, and in some cases, transported vehicles may get out and drive off!

Reserves are handled SO much better. Half come on on turn two, half on turn three, of your choice. I wish normal 40K went this way. Certain stratagems allow you to place units in reserve intentinally and then have them come on on any board edge.

Layout and Approach

The game very strongly emphasizes fun, not competetive play. The rules are written in the same way you would talk to a buddy, full of jokes and tips. The tell you flat out to make up any house rules you want if it suits you, such as allowing only one of a named special character, etc.

Threre are literally no force org charts. you can put ANYTHING you want down, although they do include a chart in the back of the book for likely allies, stating that any alliances that would normally run counter to the fluff need to be justified with some sort of backstory, but really that is just to appease the fluff monkey's out there, the ruels allow anything. There are a ton of sample armies with some crazy stuff, like a bug army with 6 hive tyrants and hundred of little bugs. Another was a Sister army with marines and a squad of harlies.

There are a ton of pictures in the book too, and some really cool, off the wall armies in there, plus some crazy boards set up that have bridges conecting seperate sections, etc. Very cool visually. I would honestly say the book is worth it for the art and inspiring pictures alone. There are a ton of new, fun armies in thee to check out.

After the rules section (which is very brief) they go into ideas for game play and then into the background for each army. There is a some cool and entertaining fluff for EACH army in the book.

The data sheet section is extensive, some armies get the short end of the stick unfortunately, like nothing for deamonhunters or sisters, which is a bummer, and only one entry for some armies like dark eldar. They did say, however, that they would be constantly coming up with new ones for all armies avialable for free on line.

Datasheets

This was the fun part. A datasheet contains a detachment of troops that use special rules. It can be as simple as a superheavy, a named superheavy, or a collection of units that get a special bonus such as the Ork dread mob, etc. Most of us are familiar with these by now, so i will go over them fairly briefly to give a taste of what they do, or the more exciting ones.

Baneblade:

tough armor (cant go into too many stats, dont want to get anyone in trouble) but just like a demolisher with better rear armor, the main cannon is strength D, 10" blast, and if the whole is over terrain, the terrain is blown apart too! 3 structure points, 500 point cost, very bad ass machine. 100 points gives you the side sponsons ith lascannons and heavy bolters, or you can upgrade a point of armor on the sides. Far more powerful than the forgeworld vehicle.

Yarrick's baneblade gives rerollable ld 10 to all IG in 12" and makes Orks run away or something similar.

The Hellhammer fires the big boom stick, but at a shorter range and ignore cover saves.

The giant sentinal squad is cool and can redploy once per game anywhere on board.

Bassie companies can fire a ranging shot first and then all other bassies may choose to atuomatically hit that point wihout scattering.

tank comapny can ignore skaen results if withing 12" of command tank, and still count as scoring even if immobilized.

All imperial aircraft are in, and the hellstrike missles are now unlimited range! The valkyrie and vulture will be very very useful to IG now, i know ill be getting some to make air cav for my boys.

the Ogryn datasheet lets them scout move and they had a really funny name for one of the example squads: "the emperor's loyal lads" i dont know why i thought that was so funny, but hey, im pretty out of it right now.

The orc baneblade is flipping awesome! It is a fast (yes fast) vehicle, open topped with one point worse front armor, but it carries 30 orcs! The thing is a scratch builder/convertor's dream, and i imagine we will see some really cool conversions with this one. It lacks some guns the normal bainblade has, but still packs a wallop.

The stompa in the new WHite Dwarf is the real stompa and seeing more pics, i like it now [Jeff Hall has since confirmed that the Stompas pictured are conversions]. the yellow paint job in the dwarf just sort of sucks. The stompa will be released too, along with codex orks, it is not a pipe ream. Also, the thing is so cool! it has just plain crazy guns that not only wreck shop, but are oh so orky. The "psycho dakka blasta" is a gun the fires once per game, but it is str 7 Ap3. It is a giant gattling shoota that is heavy 2d6. you fire it at a squad, then pick the next nearest squad and keep hopping squad to squad untill you roll doubles! the thing put out 43 shots in a game we played! after that it is out of ammo, but the stompa has a ton of other guns too, all that kick ass. There are two versions of it, the second being the big mek version (the stomp with no horns in the white dwarf) that is the same basic vehicle but has a lifta dropps instead! yes! if you remember that gun from 2nd ed, it is a blast. you use it to pick up enemy tanks and then smash their own units with it, just a very fun unit.

the gargantuan squigoth is in, crazy amount of wounds and toughness and carries a ton of big guns and 20 orcs, treated as open topped for assault and embarking.

*there are pictures of the new Orc bikesin the book too, and they look awseome! Like little choppers, and every third or so bike has a unique body. it looks like you can build lots of different bikes with modular parts, so each one is fairly unique. The Ork warboss on bike is mean looking, with a sleeker bike and a big power claw. Compared ot the old bikes, they are about 100 times an imporvement. The new truk is just fantastic too, it looks like a big half trak but orkified, and a gorgeous model. the buggies are vastly improved too. i would say that they are some of the coolest looking models i have seen in a while, and are very Orky [Jeff Hall has also confirmed that both the Bikes and Trukks pictured in the book are also conversions].

The Kult of speed can redploy anywhere on board

the dread mob gets a kustom forcefield to any kan or dread within 12" of the command dread

The bugs get deepstriking carnies!! 5 of them can deepstrike nd they get a 5+ cover save the turn they deepstrike.

endles sqrm is 120+ gaunts of any flavor that get wihtout number plus if the enemy rolls a certain amount of 6's to hit, they ran out of ammo and cant shoot for a turn.

they also have the giant barbed hirodule and the giant spider looking bug (cant remember name, too lazyt o check forgworld right now) and he is tough 9 10 wounds with two heavy 8 str 10 ap 3 guns!! ouchers.

they also had a datasheet for 9+ ravenors that all got to deepstrike off of the lead ravenor without deviating if i remember correctly.

Tau had the battlesuit datasheet (9 suits and 3 stealths) that let them deepstrike witout deviating if withing LOS of the stealth suits.

the amorred interdiciton force got three free markerlight hits per tunr, and consisted of i believe two hammerheads and a skyray.

they also had a three krootox datasheet, cant remeber what they did though.

dark eldar got the three ravager shot that lets them ignore fields.

Eldar got a three falcon formation that lets them all charge up for a tunr and their pulse lasers counts a lance weapons, or the damned things can take off into flight and reappear anywhere onthe board from reseves! damn falcons!

the aspect warrior assault (somethng like that) data sheet was three squads of wave serpaent that if they stayed in formation, they could use their field to make all incoming shots strength 7 max, or they could fire off the field and tank shock units with it and cause a pin check.

they have a windrider host that consists of a lot of bikes and vypers and can redploy anywhere on board.

the revenant titan is a beast, it is only armor 12 with holo fields, but it fires 4 str D pie plates a turn! In our game it used a stratagem to come on the chaos board edge right behind a chaos warhound titan and walked inside of the warhounds void shileds, then lit it up. THen it charged it in HTH, destroying it. very cool moment in the game. also, the revenant can move 24" if i remember correctly, it is very fast.

Necrons got the pylon, which is a uber powerful one shot weapon or a multi shot weapon like the monolith.

three monoliths form a tirangle and give +1 to WBB rolls to any unit in thta triangle, and stop all pyshich attacks form entering within. Lash of submission what?

Chaos suprisngly only got two datasheets if i remember correctly, one of which is the tie of spawn, turning 10 guys into 10 spawn.

the other was the three vindicator formation where they can combine there shots to make a str D 10" pieplate that rmoves terrain.

They also got hte line breaker data sheet i believe, which is the same for space marines: three landraiders in formation that ignore skaken or stunned.

Marines got the masters of the chapter, each guy has a really cool ability. One is the oribital bombardment, one is strategic redployment, ambush (lets you hit any unit that comes on from reserve with a bunch of hits, cant remember the spcifics) and infiltrate, i believe.

the battle company stratagem gives you three extra stratagems, although my memory is failing me as to what they were at themoment, ill post it later if i can remember.

the thunderhawk is awesome 3 structure points, can carry 20 marines, 6 bomb or missle racks, either a big template cannon or a str D laser for its main gun and multiple las cannons and heavy bolters.

the whirlwind unit has unlimited range to aything in 36" of the spotter land speeder.

Lastly, the Warlord titan is in, and it is insane! 2500 points, 9 struture points and 6 void shilds, and just insane weapons! armor 14, the thing is insane, and is in the works from forgeworld. i cant wait to see the model.

There were a few more i cant rememer off hand.

I am sure i am forgetting stuff, but i will psot more as it comes to me. On the whole, I have to sy the game is just plain fun. I really like it personally, and think it will be nothing but a good thing for the community.

Nice!

- G

Thanks alot Reecius! Very cool.

This... sounds really cool! I'm glad that they put the empahsis on social interaction and having fun together, rather than heavy competition.

Anti-Plant and Blind were in Rogue Trader.

And I'm wondering... can a force weapon kill a Giagantic Creature straight out? It's only got wounds now. Granted you have to be able to harm T8(ish) but still... interesting.

Now if only I had enough models to achieve 3k+ points games...

Wow, thanks...that sounds really fun. Now I have to fight the urge to buy an Orca.

So you don't really plan for strategems. Cool.

Well label me wrong, wrong, wrong on the Stompa kits from WD. I guess. I thought for sure they looked like scratchbuilds. Mostly because the overlapping armour plates were different on each version, something I thought for sure they'd have standard. I guess they are applied in pieces, were slightly converted, or I just plain saw wrong.

Never-the-less, I do love the models, so I don't mind being wrong this time.

Fantastic !

I've been fairly disappointed in GW lately, particularly with everything being "Jervis-ified", but this sounds like a massive step in the right direction...

Call me quietly optimistic now about the future...

And as for official rules for a Warlord Titan.... yip-yah! 

Padre^.

 

5000 Plus Games, Ipswich, Queensland, Australia - Ready for the Apocalypse !

www.5000plusgames.com

Screw the chaos codex and release schedule. I just want an Apoc book sooner.

You have quite the memory sir. Thanks for info. My anticipation level just went through the roof.

Actually Jezrael, excellent point... Isn't this just going to completely overshadow all the Chaos Codex activities ?!!!

Orks made me quite happy

I also heard that the book is huge, as in, larger in length and width than the normal GW rulebooks.

Is this true?

I believe that the huge description is in comparison to standard codex size books.  Apocalypse is supposed to be closer in size to the BGB.

NOW THIS IS WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT! DROOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!!!

Thanks for the awesome report and thank you GW for delivering just the kind of merchandise my games group has been expecting and dreaming about

wow....just wow

I loved the description of that ork gun, I can just visualise an orky holding down the trigger and widly blazing away and cackling like mad until there was no ammo left.

Screw the Chaos Codex. It's a joke.

Bring on the Apocalypse!!!

BYE

Are you sure chaos only got 2 datasheets? The rumours said at least 3: Tide of spawn, the brass scorpion, and one that allowed you to use lost and the damned models. plus i'd imagine many of the loyalist marine datasheets could be used by them too.

Excellent news! You mixed up a couple things there, for example the Linebreaker squad isn't the Land Raiders, it's the Vindicators you mentioned previously, but it's all good.


Do you remember if the Revenant is still a skimmer moving fast, meaning you can only glance it?

The Ork stuff sound amazing, and I simply love the sound of the Warlord Titan

I was sceptical at first about that book, but this really sounds like it is good fun for everybody.
The Carnifex bomb sounds too silly for me to try out, even if it meant I could use my melee monsters again. The Gaunttide will be tested out I guess... I look forward to it!

Greets
Schepp himself

Posted By Padre on 08/18/2007 11:01 PM

I've been fairly disappointed in GW lately, particularly with everything being "Jervis-ified", but this sounds like a massive step in the right direction...

What are you talking about? Jervis' philosophy has always been about the spirit of the game. Broken and ambiguous rules is what everyone around here seems to hate, yet this book seems full of them.

Personally I think it's going to be a hell of a lot of fun, since this is how I love to play the game. But I don't get how you can hate on him while his vision is being realised here.

death and damnation *jaw hits floor unleating a tidle wave of drool*

they have desided to give us more bang for our buck litorly

i am defenitly geting that speceal edition backpack now

thanks

The Stompas are still scratchbuilds and the Kult of Speed models are Alex Boyd's conversions.

I'm glad they are implementing the Rules of Engagement style of objectives. It is something I have been using in my game group for some time. It makes determining the winner very simple and easy.

The way to determine first turn is also cool.

Did they take at all about limiting a players turn to so many minutes per 500 pts? Like 5 minutes to move, 10 to shoot, and 15 for Assault?

Hmm, Dakkites praising a new GW product?

(looks out window)

Yeah.  Thought so.

I am so tempted to ask for the 10 leman Russ' and 3 baneblades for Christmas! 3000pts in 13 models is rather cool for me! Thanks for the write up, and I am very excited to get my hands on the book. The 6 Hive tyrant gaunt army sounds soooooooo coooooool! I really want to see what other types of armies are going to be shown in the book!

Thanks,
Chappy P!

LMAO!!!!


The Chaos Codex irony is lost in the description of this new one. This must have been in development for some time, and escaped the Jervis gelding of everything else that is 40k. I hope his kid doesn't get hold of it.

Good review of the game, by the way.

Posted By Kid_Kyoto on 08/19/2007 7:44 AM

Hmm, Dakkites praising a new GW product?

(looks out window)

Yeah.  Thought so.

I guess Chinese food is different in China than America...  

Hey guys,

I have also read the Apocalypse book and I can confirm what BaconSlayer said - the Stompas in the book (and in the picture in WD) are scratch builds and the Ork models in Apocalypse are not the new bikes and truks. I have however seen the new Bikes and Truks and I can say they are quite nice!

Just wanted to clarify.

Jeff

If that's how good your memory is when you're tired and hung over I can't imagine how good it normally is

thanks for the awesome report.. really looking forward to it. I just kinda realized, I think I have a whole 4 armies I can play together.. 2000 pts of guard, 2000ish of marines, Inquisitor w/ some grey knights and about 3500 pts of eldar.. and of course there's the baneblade i'm getting.. I'm gonna need like 12 army transport bags

Posted By JHall on 08/19/2007 8:25 AM
Hey guys,

I have also read the Apocalypse book and I can confirm what BaconSlayer said - the Stompas in the book (and in the picture in WD) are scratch builds and the Ork models in Apocalypse are not the new bikes and truks. I have however seen the new Bikes and Truks and I can say they are quite nice!

Just wanted to clarify.

Jeff

Finally, some confirmation regarding the stompas.

Thanks Jeff.

Posted By Kid_Kyoto on 08/19/2007 7:44 AM

Hmm, Dakkites praising a new GW product?

(looks out window)

Yeah.  Thought so.

You see Grandmaster B4z3 in china?

While fun that kind of invalidates 80% of all codexes. Why take anything but heavy support?

 

Conservative optimism aside the rules look very fun.  However given the scale of the game this looks like a very daunting proposition for my wallet considering i plan to start a NEW army and everything is so damn expensive now.     :_(

I go to college in a week.
Why does the game suddenly get 10X cooler as soon as I leave?
What gives??

Posted By ShumaGorath on 08/19/2007 10:21 AM

Threre are literally no force org charts. you can put ANYTHING you want down,

While fun that kind of invalidates 80% of all codexes. Why take anything but heavy support?

 

Why Not just use Heavy support or ELites.  Its supposed to be fun so why not take wahtever you want. 

 

Thanks for the Write up, very informative

That rule that allows flyers to act as skimmer. Does that mean all flyers? LIke that 600 dollar monstrosity the tau have? Couldn't that tank shock an entire army alone?

If anything this game will be fun because of the rediculous stunts you could pull off.

That sounds like exactly what they were aiming for with this book.

Posted By ShumaGorath on 08/19/2007 10:35 AM
That rule that allows flyers to act as skimmer. Does that mean all flyers? LIke that 600 dollar monstrosity the tau have? Couldn't that tank shock an entire army alone?

Nope. Can't tank shock unless you are a tank.

That is funny, i don't doubt you Jeff, but i was told specifically that the stompa kit in the book was legit and that the bikes, buggies and truks were the new ones and that they would be out around christmas, but hey, i could be totally wrong. Just calling it as i saw and heard it =) The person who told me is pretty high up in the company and has never steared me wrong in the past, but you would know better than i for sure.

I did forget some stuff,

The Space marine whirlwind detachment not only got unlimited range but also could reroll the scatter die.

There were two flavors of the bassie datacheet, a squad and company, one was three the other was 10. The 10 bassie formation could use the apocolypse four leaf clover template i believe and in that case it does not deviate, so you would just pummel your target with essentially 10 pieplates in  avery condensed area, and they all hit at once! So each guy could theoretically be hit by 10 earth shaker rounds.

The dark eldar got a second formation that consisted of a lot of raider squads and warriors. I believe they got the strategic redployment stratagem.

Chaos did have another datasheet, the deamon summoning one. It let you put a warp gate down in your deployment zone and then all your deamons come through it including greater deamons. I forgot about that one.

There was also a tyranid data sheet that combined a bunch of zoeys but i do not recall what they did.

The deep stirking caries are rad, and it makes using melle carnies totally feasible, i think that one will be really popular.

The gargantuan creatures i believe are protected from force weapons because their rule is worded as they are protected from any psychic weapon that does not directly cause damage, i think you have to have a strength value. It is a moot point anyway though, as most of them are too tough to be wounded by anything but maybe a greyknight grand master.

And that is correct, the linebreaker squad was three vindies, the three land raider formation was the armored spear tip. Thanks for clarifying that.

To answer some questions:

Sure, you could take all heavy support, or all abbadons or all falcons, or clowns or whatever. that is the point. You can play the game however you like. it is not meant to be a cut throat competetion as much as a way to spend the day with your pals and have some fun. If you decide to bring 50 obliterators, then go right ahead, probably wont be a fun game though. You dont exactly walk into a game store and play a pick up 5K game though, you know? You call your buddies and set it up. I think as long as you play with like minded people, everyone will have a blast.

no, there is nothing in there about time limit per turn, but im sure you could make a house rule for that.

no, not all flyers could become skimmers, only things that were VTOL capable like the Vulture, Valkyrie, etc. Things like the fighta bomba, thunderbolt, marauder (which is brutal!) etc. can not.

The revenant does not get the skimmer rule anymore i dont think, at least it didnt in our games (but we were still getting used to the rules). I have seen it in action tiwce, both times it got blown up with a pen. The thing hits SO hard though, its pulsars are just awesome and it is faster in HtH than the other big guys (In2!)

The stompa was the coolest thing in there, IMHO. the guns were just so fun. The bigmek stompa's lifta droppa was rad, and the other stompa with the ability to go ape with the super gattling cannon and then still fire his super cannon was too fun. Although you had to fire the big cannon after the gattling gun, so it goes dakka dakka dakka dakka, boom! i felt that it captured the orky feel very well.

I wish i could remember the warlord's weapons, but they were just insane. The Warhound scout titan (we had one of these in both games I played in) got its choice of two titan weapons and the Warlord got 4 plus some minor weapons too. The thing seriously looked like it would be unstopable, as it should be!

In the second game we played 10K of chaos vs 10K of Eldar and friends (including 15 penitant engines, each as a seperate unit!), one guy brought Angroth (forgeworld bloodthirster), that dude is a beast. He took orbital bombardments to the face and just laughed it off before going toe to toe with a titan. Very very fun. ALso, you can use whatever rules for deamons you choose with the rules worded the way they are, so screw those stupid generic deamons in the new dex.

Well, ill post more as it comes to me, but the book should be out soon. i will 100% be getting that backpack deal as it is $90 bucks with everything you need (apart from more minis of course!) and yes, the book is bigger in demension than the BGB, which is kind of dumb IMO, i want it to fit in an army transport with my other books, but that is a minor complaint as it has huge foldout picutres in it with truly immpresive battles on display. Also, i guess that makes the backpack even more appealing as it will fit all your books or apoc and a figure case.

Posted By Hellfury on 08/19/2007 9:20 AM

Posted By JHall on 08/19/2007 8:25 AM
Hey guys,

I have also read the Apocalypse book and I can confirm what BaconSlayer said - the Stompas in the book (and in the picture in WD) are scratch builds and the Ork models in Apocalypse are not the new bikes and truks. I have however seen the new Bikes and Truks and I can say they are quite nice!

Just wanted to clarify.

Jeff

Finally, some confirmation regarding the stompas.

Thanks Jeff.

Oh, well I guess I'm awesome and shouldn't back down so quickly.

Yeah me!

So no info on how the Lost and the Damned are handled? Thought the rumour was the Latd list would be on a datasheet- something about having to take 3 mutie squads?

Apocolypse still sounds cool, like a throwback to 2nd edition madness.

For those that have seen the Warlord Titan entry:

I am currently building a Warlord Titan. I am almost done. However, I want to make sure that my weapons layout will be legal. I have two volcano cannons, and two vulcan mega bolters. Will I have to rip my titan apart?

Posted By BaconSlayer on 08/19/2007 10:59 AM

Posted By ShumaGorath on 08/19/2007 10:35 AM
That rule that allows flyers to act as skimmer. Does that mean all flyers? LIke that 600 dollar monstrosity the tau have? Couldn't that tank shock an entire army alone?

Nope. Can't tank shock unless you are a tank.

what about titens, squiggoths, and stompas im shure that would hurt if you got steped on by them (espechely the stompa as you get steped on then lose scrap and grots fall on you

So, was there any Vehicle Design Rules or similar?

I remember seeing a pic from a presentation, that said something about making "datasheets" for vehicles. Using FW artillery with your own rules.
"...with the flexible rules of Apocalypse you can create your own datasheets and field the most diabolical engines of war your mind can conjure!" was the exact wording, and this was from an official GT presentation.

For me VDR would be like 75% of the fun. Without that I'll probably skip Apoc completely. I was planning of scratchbuilding a Tau superheavy or a small Titan for Marines. But without fun rules for them specifically, I'm not going to bother.

This is going to be really cool. Between my friend and I we have nearly two full Battle Companies of Dark Angels, nearly 10,000 points with vehicles, Ravenwing and Deathwing. 3 of our friends have Speed Freaks, this could be a really fun game...

And Yay! I'm finally not in the minority opinion (so this is what it feels like...)

Ozymandias, King of Kings

you can use VDR but the rules aren't in the book.

I did not see anything about the lost and the damned.

But there was a data sheet for the plague reaper (cahos baneblade) and the brass scorpion. The plague reaper fires the giant flame template and when it is destroyed, it does something really nurglish but i cant remeber exactly what.

Titans and gargantuan creatures can tank shock anything apart from other superheavies, and they get a stomp special attack too.

Posted By Reecius on 08/18/2007 8:47 PM
First off, the basic game is unchanged. You use the exact same rules for Apoc as you do normal 40K.

That just killed off my enthusiasm for Apocalypse...

While there's a lot of cool stuff in there, it doesn't address the biggest problem with large-points games using the 40K ruleset: Namely that one side does everything in a turn before the other side gets to do anything.

I've played 10-20000 point games of 40K before. While they're fun as an occasional thing, it gets a little tedious when you're standing around for half an hour waiting for your opponent to finish moving all of his models...

Add in multiple players, and that gets exponentially worse, as each phase slows down while players discuss what to do, or have to go and find the guy who's supposed to be moving but has wandered off in search of munchies.

What are the points cost for Imperial Flyers, such as Vultures, Valkyries and Thunderbolts??

Thanks,
Chappy P!

Posted By cuda1179 on 08/19/2007 11:28 AM

For those that have seen the Warlord Titan entry:

I am currently building a Warlord Titan. I am almost done. However, I want to make sure that my weapons layout will be legal. I have two volcano cannons, and two vulcan mega bolters. Will I have to rip my titan apart?

With the theme of Apocalypse being "anything goes", I can't imagine that there's a weapon combo on the Warlord that you CAN'T take.

You should be just fine! (No guarantees though - I mean, I haven't seen the rules either!)

Insaniak: since it's all 'for fun' anyway, perhaps introduce some house rules with your 40k Apoc to spice it up and do away with IGOUGO. Hidden deployment, for example, and random activation might spice things up. Perhaps some kind of reaction rule a la BFE/SST (not full "overwatch" per se). I mean, if we're talking about a game of all Leman Russes vs. all battlesuits, why not?

I must admit it all sounds very interesting at the very least. But am I the only one who thinks 15-20mm WH40K would be much better suited to this sort of thing than the current 28mm? It would certainly be a lot easier to paint! I wonder if GW missed the chance to sell everyone an entirely new line of minis?

I think Epic-scale players just got a new ruleset as well.

That's a shame. A 800(?) point AV12 tank doesn't sound too interesting all of the sudden. It's quite sad actually that the proper way to play Eldar in Apocalypse is the exact same thing as in regular games of 40K: Mass as many Falcons as you can with as many Harlequins and Fire Dragons as possible.

Posted By tanker on 08/19/2007 3:41 PM
 But am I the only one who thinks 15-20mm WH40K would be much better suited to this sort of thing than the current 28mm?

Nope. I think they should have gone 6mm for truly massive battles, 15mm years ago for what they do at 28mm now, kept to 28mm for skirmish/small battles, and did 54mm for campaign-based games. But they didn't. Oh well.

There are people who play 15mm 40k out there, though, using GZG and other kitbashed figs.

Am I the only one who isn't impressed or excited about this?

With a full time job, family, and other interests, I barely have the time to play the typical two hours game every couple weeks.  The half-day affair that it appears they are going for with Apocolypse sounds uninteresting.  If I wanted to play with huge models such as titans or SHs, then I'd get back into Epic.

I like the bidding on setup and a few of the other setup ideas.  I really like the vortex grenade too.  I hope they incorporate these ideas into future versions of the core rulebook, however, as it stands, the Apocolypse book holds about the same interest to me as the Wargear book did.

It sounds like I am alone however in my opinion.

I still hope GW makes a killing on it.

You're not alone. I have no use at all for Apocalypse, and I think it's an odd thing to release right now, but if people are excited, if it makes money for the hobby, then great.

Most gamers already have close to 2500-3000 pts with all the force structure options for their 1850 armies anyway. You can always play with less, say 2000 vs 3000 ,and have 5 stratagems to even things out.

I'm just glad my IG can finally have some Marines task organized for future operations. Bring on APOC!

First, thank you very much Reecius for sharing that.
The book certainly sounds like it has a good "attitude".
I doubt I'll play it much, because I dislike the basic rules for 40K and like others I have limited money and very limited time (I'm in work at 1am on a Sunday for christ's sake) so other games are more appealing to me.
I hope everyone has great fun playing it and it gets GW out of their funk in a constructive way though.
I'll be over here, painting LOTR and obsessing about it quietly.

I want to take an army consisting of Abaddon the Despoiler and that's it.  I will spend the rest of my 3000 pts alottment on orbital bombardment.   Since Abaddon will start the game in reserve I will wager "0 minutes" for my set up time.

(This would probably work better using unit of Swooping Hawks with Skyleap, but I think it's funnier with Abaddon.)

Your opponent is going to love you.
I can't see many ways to have fun in this system without a massive investment of cash and time unfortunately.
Footslogging orks will die in droves in this game, and that is boring enough in normal 40K. I don't need to get extra dead in apocolypse. And wagering for start time sucks for high model count armies- cos MEQs needed more buffs yeah?
So to have fun I'd either have to buy a bunch of kans and dreads and stompas and squiggoth and a converted baneblade and some battlewagons and stuff, and then paint and convert them, and then find an opponent with a similarly sized force, and then remove most of it on the first and second turns? Nah, no thanks. I can do narrative games and house rules myself (and frequently do!) and it's cheaper and quicker than the apocolypse route.
I'm sure it'll be right up some people's alley, but I have limited storage space, money and time. Not for me, sadly. I'll read the book though, as it sounds fun.

With less time in life we tend to gravitate to these style of games when we get together anyway. 4 player games are the fix so we can all hang out and play. Apoc pretty much gives us a rules set that makes this better and allows us to just throw everything into our games that we want.

I think Apoc pretty much gives everyone something fun and a new way to play and socialize.

It kind of sounds like Apoc is pretty much what you want to make of it, or put into it.

Posted By syr8766 on 08/19/2007 8:20 AM

Posted By Kid_Kyoto on 08/19/2007 7:44 AM

Hmm, Dakkites praising a new GW product?

(looks out window)

Yeah.  Thought so.

I guess Chinese food is different in China than America...  

Yeah but on the minus side it's hard to find buffalo wings.

Toreador: Good for you!
I'm geniunely happy that a lot of people are gonna have fun with this, that's what wargaming is all about.
Just not for me, at this stage in my life anyway.
Come back to me if I ever get my damned doctorate.

Posted By Kid_Kyoto on 08/19/2007 5:51 PM

Posted By syr8766 on 08/19/2007 8:20 AM

Posted By Kid_Kyoto on 08/19/2007 7:44 AM

Hmm, Dakkites praising a new GW product?

(looks out window)

Yeah.  Thought so.

I guess Chinese food is different in China than America...  

Yeah but on the minus side it's hard to find buffalo wings.

How hard is it to find a guy in China to take a stick of butter and mix it with chili peppers and slather it on your meat?

Burgeoning superpower my muscular buttocks...

Posted By Jester on 08/19/2007 6:11 PM

Posted By Kid_Kyoto on 08/19/2007 5:51 PM

Posted By syr8766 on 08/19/2007 8:20 AM

Posted By Kid_Kyoto on 08/19/2007 7:44 AM

Hmm, Dakkites praising a new GW product?

(looks out window)

Yeah.  Thought so.

I guess Chinese food is different in China than America...  

Yeah but on the minus side it's hard to find buffalo wings.

How hard is it to find a guy in China to take a stick of butter and mix it with chili peppers and slather it on your meat?

Burgeoning superpower my muscular buttocks...

If he wants that slathered on his meat I'm sure he can pay extra for it in Singapore...

Reecius - The person in question may have been reliable in the past, but don't forget you are getting info from a Retail employee - the most notorious of the GW pantheon for incorrect information! :-)

Believe me, the first thing I asked when I saw the Stompas were if they were the kit and the studio said no. Same for the Ork models. As I mentioned, I recently saw pictures of the new Truk and Bikes and they are awesome (IMO). I love the new Truk and what you can do with it.

Jeff

Posted By Jester on 08/19/2007 6:11 PM

Posted By Kid_Kyoto on 08/19/2007 5:51 PM

Posted By syr8766 on 08/19/2007 8:20 AM

Posted By Kid_Kyoto on 08/19/2007 7:44 AM

Hmm, Dakkites praising a new GW product?

(looks out window)

Yeah.  Thought so.

I guess Chinese food is different in China than America...  

Yeah but on the minus side it's hard to find buffalo wings.

How hard is it to find a guy in China to take a stick of butter and mix it with chili peppers and slather it on your meat?

Burgeoning superpower my muscular buttocks...

WHOOSH!  is the sound of a joke going over Jester's head like some bewinged buffalo.

Flying Buffalo genocide is no laughing matter, Kyoto-sama.

Damn, i was hoping they were the real deal, that was honestly the first thing i looked for in the book when they told me they were legit. but oh well, thanks for clarifying Jeff, and so long as the real things are looking sweet then i will be happy in the end. Orks will be the next army for me so long as the rules give them a fighting chance. I have always been an Ork lover at heart all these years.

I seriously hope they do make the Stompa though, the rules for it were just so awesome.

As far as game play goes, i think you can pretty easily play one on one at 3K using Apoc rules and be done in 3 hours easy (and i play slow). If you use some big stuff, like Baneblades and such, EVERYTHING dies like foot slogging orcs. when you have a strength D 10" pie plate to throw around, MEQ's get it just as bad as Orcs, so it may be fun to give them a taste of their own medicine.

As for me, I will only add probably another platoon to my IG for Apoc games, i really cant be bothered to paint more than the 100+ infantry i already have. I will just get more tanks of the flavors i always wanted but never bought because i felt like i hade the most efficient ones for 2K play already. Now i will get some cool Forgeworld variants to use in Apoc that i always wanted to get anyway and then build and pain them in leisure time for fun.

My marines only need two more squads to form a full battle company and then some, so why not? I dont mind painting a few more guys just to say i have a full battle company of my own chapter, that would just be fun, IMO.

Also, i could grab a Greyknight squad or sister squad for flavor, hell, i will run all 4 assasins or something just because i like the models and want to paint them up. I will have an inquisitorial X-Man team.

I know i am falling for the marketing ploy but screw it, i like the models, the game is fun and what else would i spend the money i dont put into savings on?
Booze that's what, so GW may actually be saving my liver!

Posted By Abadabadoobaddon on 08/19/2007 5:26 PM

I want to take an army consisting of Abaddon the Despoiler and that's it.  I will spend the rest of my 3000 pts alottment on orbital bombardment.   Since Abaddon will start the game in reserve I will wager "0 minutes" for my set up time.

(This would probably work better using unit of Swooping Hawks with Skyleap, but I think it's funnier with Abaddon.)

Whoah, sweet idea! I'm gonna do the same thing except with O'Shovah. It'll be like a gundam episode except his armor's not made with unobtanium or whatever the hell it is so he'll die in one shot.

Well I think this book sounds great.  My gaming group and i have been playing for many many years and we all have so many models its rediculous.  We probly have at least 10 guys that have over 10000 points of stuff.  I will definately be picking up the book at some point.

We have also been running big games once a year for 5 years now i think.  Our last one had 8 players per side with 5000pts a player.  We had flyers and titans and vdr vehicles.  We always try and balance it every year with fluff and rules to make the battles fair.

I alone have 8000pts of Iron warriors.  I like that i'll be able to use all 5 of my predators without worrying about force org.

Thanks for the sneak peak!

"Damn, i was hoping they were the real deal, that was honestly the first thing i looked for in the book when they told me they were legit. but oh well, thanks for clarifying Jeff, and so long as the real things are looking sweet then i will be happy in the end. Orks will be the next army for me so long as the rules give them a fighting chance. I have always been an Ork lover at heart all these years."

Reecius, way to spread totally wrong information.  You falsely claim conversions are new releases leading to a series of arguments/debates on a number of boards and your response when you're proven wrong is, "oh well"  Tuff Git on the Waaagh converted those Stompas.  Consider your old source completely unreliable.

Tazok, don't blow a gasket. Did you forget to douche or something? Do you want Reecius to flagellate himself? He just shared what someone he trusted said...there was no malice. It was a mistake.

Take a deep breath,
Chuck

I think it would be interesting to play night fight during the first three turns to see how things would play out. Surgical strikes by terminator units to take out artillery. Movement involving assault squads, rough riders, bikes and more would be really cool to see in preparation for the onslaught.

I believe our group will put a time limit on turn or parts of turns. For example - movement. You have 5 minutes to move anything in your force. Once that time limit is up, none of your other forces can move. Same thing for assaulting. Firing may take a little longer (ie: 15 minutes). That would keep the game moving.

To speed things up you could probably also do movement trays especially if you have a lot of infantry .. doesn't have to be anything special just a piece of cardboard or something, so you can still bunch them up for assaults and stuff. Even at 2k points my movement phase was long when I would play with lots of gaunts

I for one am relieved that those awful things aren't the actual stompas. I've also still got some reservations about apocalypse in general... I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Oh and don't mind Tazok. He gets pissy like that sometimes. Reminds me of the time I asked about one of his conversions...

Posted By dienekes96 on 08/20/2007 8:20 AM
Tazok, don't blow a gasket. Did you forget to douche or something? Do you want Reecius to flagellate himself? He just shared what someone he trusted said...there was no malice. It was a mistake.

Take a deep breath,
Chuck

 

Who's blowing a gasket, it was quite obvious from the beginning they were conversions.  Forgive me for holding people accountable for their false statements.  He could of spent a minture or two researching the issue on the waagh and known who did the conversions, but I guess it's just better to make gak up (or be a insufferable troll Chuck) then report accurate info. 

Posted By Inquisitor_Malice on 08/20/2007 8:22 AM
I believe our group will put a time limit on turn or parts of turns. For example - movement. You have 5 minutes to move anything in your force. Once that time limit is up, none of your other forces can move. Same thing for assaulting. Firing may take a little longer (ie: 15 minutes). That would keep the game moving.

Great if everyone in your group plays Marines. It sucks for Ork or Guard players though.

Posted By Tazok on 08/20/2007 10:00 AM 

Who's blowing a gasket, it was quite obvious from the beginning they were conversions.  Forgive me for holding people accountable for their false statements.  He could of spent a minture or two researching the issue on the waagh and known who did the conversions, but I guess it's just better to make gak up (or be a insufferable troll Chuck) then report accurate info.

Tazok, the thread was about the book.  If it had been about the Stompas, I wouldn't have said anything.  You jumped into a macro-conversation confrontationally about a minute part of the thread - and essentially called him a liar after he already apologized for making a MISTAKE.  Why should he go to the Waaaagh to verify facts...he's not a journalist.

If you're not a journalist then its okay to make stuff up? 

As to it being a minute detail, I disagree.  Let's see  he said,

"The stompa in the new WHite Dwarf is the real stompa and seeing more pics, i like it now. the yellow paint job in the dwarf just sort of sucks. The stompa will be released too, along with codex orks, it is not a pipe ream. Also, the thing is so cool! it has just plain crazy guns that not only wreck shop, but are oh so orky. The "psycho dakka blasta" is a gun the fires once per game, but it is str 7 Ap3. It is a giant gattling shoota that is heavy 2d6. you fire it at a squad, then pick the next nearest squad and keep hopping squad to squad untill you roll doubles! the thing put out 43 shots in a game we played! after that it is out of ammo, but the stompa has a ton of other guns too, all that kick ass. There are two versions of it, the second being the big mek version (the stomp with no horns in the white dwarf) that is the same basic vehicle but has a lifta dropps instead! yes! if you remember that gun from 2nd ed, it is a blast. you use it to pick up enemy tanks and then smash their own units with it, just a very fun unit.

the gargantuan squigoth is in, crazy amount of wounds and toughness and carries a ton of big guns and 20 orcs, treated as open topped for assault and embarking.

*there are pictures of the new Orc bikesin the book too, and they look awseome! Like little choppers, and every third or so bike has a unique body. it looks like you can build lots of different bikes with modular parts, so each one is fairly unique. The Ork warboss on bike is mean looking, with a sleeker bike and a big power claw. Compared ot the old bikes, they are about 100 times an imporvement. The new truk is just fantastic too, it looks like a big half trak but orkified, and a gorgeous model. the buggies are vastly improved too. i would say that they are some of the coolest looking models i have seen in a while, and are very Orky."

For all we know an official stompa is a pipe dream.  The two stompas he said were the official release are just conversions and the entire third paragraph about all the new ork stuff is just completely wrong (nothing he saw from the orks was new).  Chuck your statement about minute is about as well thought out as GW's rules.

 

Okay, Tazok, exactly what service to the Dakka community have YOU provided? Calling someone out for errors after they've been previously identified, admitted to, and apologized for adds nothing to the discussion. You are flamebaiting here and nothing else.

Sorry Breotan, I haven't gotten around to contributing to that all important GW Survivor game that you find all so important.

 

 

Sounds like the newest version of Epic.

Is it really that big of a deal?

Wow, tazok, what do you want Reecius to do? Should he come to your house and bow down in apology? He passed along some info, it turned out to be wrong, and he apologized for it. Its over, and you are just looking to pick a fight. Sometimes people post information that's incorrect. That's why this forum is called News and Rumors, not News and Confrimed-info-that-I-can-back-with-two-games-developer-sources. Chill, thank Reecius for spending all that time posting what he learned, and then apologize for being a troll.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Ah ok, you got me Tazok. My grand, diabolical scheme to misinform my fellow gamers has been foiled!! I find it fun to go out of my way to make up elaborate bs because I have nothing better to do, what with a 50+ hour a week job, social life and all the toher bs life throws my way.

For one, I have never even heard of the Waggh website, so how in the hell would i know to double check anything on it.

And for two, why would i doubt what i was told i was looking at in the damned book? If GW staff pull out a new codex and show you a picture of a new model you have never seen and says, that is the new model for this army, why in the hell would i question it at all, or go to some obscure, unoffical website to double check that info? That is a down right stupid thing to say.

So buddy, I so deeply apologize for trying to give everyone a taste of what the book is like, next time ill call you and ask you if i should post anything, because i would hate to offend your delicate sensibilities.

Or better yet, next time, you can take your advice and shove it straight up your arse.

Posted By Reecius on 08/20/2007 11:50 AM

Or better yet, next time, you can take your advice and shove it straight up your arse.

Hey, you live in California!

You don't get to spell it that way!

All kidding aside, thanks for posting what you did, as it was the first "review" of the Apocalypse Book that I saw online...

[[Am I the only one who isn't impressed or excited about this?

With a full time job, family, and other interests, I barely have the time to play the typical two hours game every couple weeks. ]]

Well I doubt I'll play any of the huge battles either. But the rules and mission options (especially the lack of force org) sound interesting enough to apply to smaller games. I'd be happy with a 2,000pt game that adds maybe one large vehicle/creature unit per side.

The last two flaming posts deleted.

Tazok and Reecius, you can both consider yourselves warned for flaming.

Drop the subject.

For the record, in the opinion of this moderator Reecius made an honest mistake and apologized for it before Tazok started the fight.

I?m leaving the other posts in place for now, but no more discussion over the mistakes/misinformation about the Ork stuff is needed. Any further posts on that subject are subject to deletion and the posters may incur further disciplinary action.

You are right Mannahnin, sorry about that. I over reacted.

Well it's pretty much as I expected- Apocolypse adds some wonderful new models (and their associated rules), but doesn't do much else. It appears to simply be a really big game of 40K. Fair enough. Why not just call it 40K? I'm not really complaining here- I'm just wondering why GW seemingly released this as an optional system of play rather than a (much needed) expansion to the regular rules. Many of the tweaks (e.g.: some strategems and cutting the board for deployment) would be good for any size game.

Nice new models, though.

Posted By Triggerbaby on 08/20/2007 1:58 PM
Well it's pretty much as I expected- Apocolypse adds some wonderful new models (and their associated rules), but doesn't do much else. It appears to simply be a really big game of 40K. Fair enough. Why not just call it 40K? I'm not really complaining here- I'm just wondering why GW seemingly released this as an optional system of play rather than a (much needed) expansion to the regular rules. Many of the tweaks (e.g.: some strategems and cutting the board for deployment) would be good for any size game.

Nice new models, though.

Because it is a supplement to the standard game (exactly like Cities of Death). Players can decide ahead of time whether they want to use the apocalypse rules and units or whether they would rather stick to the standard game and codices.


Whether they fail at their goal or not, the goal is to have the standard game set up for basic play that is relatively balanced for tournaments or pick-up games. Then the system will eventually have many supplements that players can choose to add to the game if they like the expansion.

That way the game caters to several types of players but still has a core game that remains unchanged for basic competitive play.


Of course they still haven't got the core game balanced yet. . .but that's the point of making it a supplement.

So how are Valkryies better in Apocalypse vs. the standard entry from Forgeworld? Are they cheaper in points?

Capt K

Posted By CaptKaruthors on 08/20/2007 2:17 PM
So how are Valkryies better in Apocalypse vs. the standard entry from Forgeworld? Are they cheaper in points?

They're better because now they're in a GW rulebook instead of a FW one. So more people will let you use them...

From what I've heard the flying rules in Apocalypse are a lot better/more powerful than the FW ones. So that means a Valkyrie would be better.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

I would like to say thank you first off to Reecius for bringing this information to us. I am not upset that he made a mistake, I am overjoyed that he was able to get this info in the first place. As a Necron player myself, I am really looking forward to the Pylon rules as well as the three Monolith field.

Posted By CaptKaruthors on 08/20/2007 2:17 PM
So how are Valkryies better in Apocalypse vs. the standard entry from Forgeworld? Are they cheaper in points?

Capt K

Well, he said in his post that vehicles that can enter VTOL mode now can move around the board as a fast Skimmer. This is a big improvement over the previous VTOL rules which made the vehicle sit in one place (although it could pivot).

Now (it appears from his rumors) you can fly your squad on with your Valkrye then engage VTOL mode and move around the board in later turns providing ground support. Very cool indeed (and the way it always should have been, IMO).

How many points do the flyers go for?? I have always had my eye on an Elysian Drop troop army and this could seal the deal for me, with the possible exception of GW producing a Plastic and somewhat cheaper version than the FW one!

Thanks,
Chappy P

What's the bet a Valk costs more than a Falcon, despite not having Holo-Fields or AV12.

BYE

While that is definitely a lot better, I hope that they reduce the points cost a bit...or at least keep the vehicle upgrades the same. Chaff is needed to keep the valkryie alive longer. I am looking forward to blasting people with my valkryie. As it is, it has done okay in my 2500pt Ard boyz playtest games allowing me to land troops on the objective on the last turn for the win in my last test game.

Capt K

no word on special rules for characters, eh? I know the space marines have a butt load... well, i guess that's expected... but anything on Tau or Eldar or Orks?

Posted By yakface on 08/20/2007 2:07 PM
Whether they fail at their goal or not, the goal is to have the standard game set up for basic play that is relatively balanced for tournaments or pick-up games. Then the system will eventually have many supplements that players can choose to add to the game if they like the expansion.

Hey, I got an idea - instead of releasing an expansion that's less balanced than the current rules, perhaps they focus on releasing something that's more balanced.  This must be a chance for the studio to cut loose, balance be damned!  All this blandification is hard work!  Let's take a break from writing airtight perfectly balanced tournament rules and release something that's just for fun!  I can picture it now...

JERVIS:  Gav, has the Chaos codex been "taken care of"?

GAV:  It has, my master.  Pete Haines' failure is now complete.

JERVIS:  You have done well, my young apprentice.  Once more the possessed will roll their abilities, and we will have peace. 

GAV:  Thank you my master.

JERVIS:  But now I sense you wish to continue your search for "fun"...

I guess the core rules are too balanced and we need an expansion to set our imaginations FREEEE!!!  I'm sorry, when you can write balanced rules then you can release "just for fun" expansions.  But when your core rules have trifalcons, nidzilla, and fzorglorcerors you don't get to "take a break from game balance".

It was said you would bring balance to the game!  Not leave it in blandness!

OI!!! Who is Dis? Is it my Space Wolves Buddy? :|

Do you know I have organised a day with GW staff to playtest at our Sept. Meeting? Did you get my E-mail? Well?????

 

 

Gentleman,

I have been speaking to a few GW staff members about Apocalypse, and this is what he said about Marines for Example,

1. You get some full-on advantages when you play a full "Company", IE 6 x Tac squads, 2 x Dev squads, 2 x Assault, 1 x Razorback/Pred
8 x Rhino's!!!!( It all comes conveniently packaged by GW as a Box you can buy!!!)
With the Battleforce Box, you get 6 Special Characters-Fleet Commander(For Orbital Bombardment), 1st Company Commander(special rules about"Honour of the Chapter", which gives a single surviving member of a squad the ability to take objectives, and a few other guys that give you other cool things(Sorry I can't remember it all!)

2. GW is going to release a "Drop pod" in the next 12 months apperntly..........(WE WILL SEE.....)


3.Reaver and Warlord Titans are going to be allowed(Releasing thier own???)


4. There are VORTEX grenades(KOOL), I did not ask about Blind or Anti-plant grenades(they sucked in '88, so I can not see 20 years improving them!)

5.Heaps of new mini's being released.(Esp. ORKY BITZ)


Please do not flame this, as I am not saying it as a fact.

Posted By akira5665 on 08/21/2007 7:29 PM
Gentleman,

With the Battleforce Box, you get 6 Special Characters

Sorry about upsetting the bunny. To remind myself about how TRULY EEEEVIL I am, I have printed out the bunny and put it up at work........lol

Posted By akira5665 on 08/21/2007 7:29 PM
With the Battleforce Box, you get 6 Special Characters-

The Battleforce Box is the all-plastic box that has been available for a couple of years now. It doesn't include any special characters.

The Battle Company box (which is the big box being released for Apocalypse) is also an all-plastic box, and also doesn't contain any special characters.

The 4 Space Marine characters are being released in a 'Masters of the Chapter' box.

Posted By akira5665 on 08/21/2007 7:29 PM
3.Reaver and Warlord Titans are going to be allowed(Releasing thier own???)

I doubt we'll see a GW Titan any time soon. The rules are just in there to allow for Forgeworld's models or scratchbuilds.

Forgive me if I missed it, but what info was provided for 'Nids?

I remember reading about the squad (?) of 5 Carifexes that can be Deep Striked anywhere on the table. Was there anything else? Or even an update?

Will any of the Forge World stuff be usable?

Wow, just had a very wierd keyboard experience..................

As far as all the other people have told me, there is a Command squad consisting of 6 Guys in the Mega-Force, or it may be called a "Company" Box. You get 106 Mini's, and around 6/7 Rhinos/1 Razorback.

Why would you have 10 sqads of 10 and 6 random guys? I am pretty sure it is the Company Command squad. I am going to GOOGLE what you mentioned about the "Masters of the chapter".

PS. thanks for the info about the Battleforce box. I have been playing 40k for about 20 years and have never heard of it!!!(Snigger)

PS. thanks for the info about the Battleforce box. I have been playing 40k for about 20 years and have never heard of it!!!(Snigger

Really? Then why did you post that it comes with 6 special characters? I wouldn't throw too much sarcasm towards someone who corrects your mistakes.

Posted By akira5665 on 08/22/2007 8:29 PM
As far as all the other people have told me, there is a Command squad consisting of 6 Guys in the Mega-Force, or it may be called a "Company" Box.

And once again, it's the Battle Company box.

The Mega Force is the $300 plastic box that, like the Battle Force, has been around for some time.

Posted By akira5665 on 08/22/2007 8:29 PM
You get 106 Mini's, and around 6/7 Rhinos/1 Razorback.

8 Rhinos and a Razorback

Posted By akira5665 on 08/22/2007 8:29 PM
Why would you have 10 sqads of 10 and 6 random guys?

You don't.

You get 10 squads of 10, a Commander and a 5 man Command Squad.

These are the regular plastic models, not special characters.

Posted By akira5665 on 08/22/2007 8:29 PM
PS. thanks for the info about the Battleforce box. I have been playing 40k for about 20 years and have never heard of it!!!(Snigger)

You're the one who brought it up:

Posted By akira5665 on 08/21/2007 7:29 PM
With the Battleforce Box, you get 6 Special Characters-

Posted By brotherskeeper74 on 08/22/2007 10:10 AM
Forgive me if I missed it, but what info was provided for 'Nids?

I remember reading about the squad (?) of 5 Carifexes that can be Deep Striked anywhere on the table. Was there anything else? Or even an update?

Will any of the Forge World stuff be usable?

Tyranids: Endless Swarm - a butt-ton of gaunts with some special rules.

I think there may be some form of "Zoanthrope Battery" as well.

 

Forgeworld - I can't believe they would say you can't use it. probably whatever the current FW rules are if there isn't somethng new in the Apoc book.

Yeah there is a Zoey group, i cant remember what the hell they did though, or what they were called, it was like 6 Zoeys and another Tyranid model, maybe a tyrant? cant remember. Ill have another look when i go back to the store.

the endless swarm is 120 Gaunts that all get without number and when an enemy unit fires at them, if they roll a certain amount of 6's they are out of ammo and cant fire for a turn while they reload.

they had a sample scenario in there where one army had to try and kill X amount of bugs in X amount of turns to win. sounded like some fun.

They had another scenario like that too, but with Orks. The Orks had a Kan factory that produced i think like D6 Kans or something a turn and the other army had to try and destroy the factory in a certain amount of turns. Some of the guys i know said they played it and it was really fun.

and the Battle Company is all plasitc, there are no metal models in it, as has been stated.

While at work, I did a sneak peek at the BoLS page at the datasheets. Not only do Chaos get their own sheets, they also can use Imperial datasheets as well. If you look at the LineBreaker datasheet, it states that through Apoc rules, Chaos can use Imeprial datasheets.

For me: Renegade Basilisk Batteries!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Freakin' Sweet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also worth noting in that BoLS posting Apoc datasheets thread is that in the Emperors Fist tank company, the command tank can be a Vanquisher, Executioner, or an Exterminator from IA1. Also, the command tank of the Basilisk company (9+ Bassies) can be a Salamander Command vehicle from IA1.

 

Also, going back a couple of pages, I'm pretty sure that Forgeworld have confirmed / commented that a Reaver Titan will be released sometime towards the end of 2007 (with rules coming in an IA book), and that a Warlord Titan was in the "conceptual" stage. Must be banking on the success of the Manta, as it won't be a cheap model...

If so, this would explain the rumour I've heard that the Apoc book has rules for the smaller Warhound and large Warlord, but not the medium Reaver (as you can see, if they released in Apoc, they'ld be undercutting FW...)

Cheers,

Padre^.

I can not see how writing Snigger in brackets is too much sarcasm mikhailia.

If all you have to add to the post is that, them keep up the good work.(SNIGGER)

 

How about "snicker" instead.  That's what you're actually trying to write.

Posted By The Power Cosmic on 08/23/2007 9:18 PM
How about "snicker" instead.  That's what you're actually trying to write.

Either one. Means the same thing.

And both just as inappropriate when you're being sarcastic instead of just admitting to making a mistake.

It sounds like everyone has too much time. OK I made a mistake, who wants to call the police?

Nobody cares if you make a mistake.

But if you've been gaming for 20 years as you claim, you're old enough to not behave like a petulant child when someone points it out...

Give it up mate, its a dead issue.

Who is really being silly here?

Mom, Dad, stop it!  I hate when you fight!



...

Wha?  I dozed off there, what happened?

When I think about the word "snigger", characters the likes of Wormtongue and Renfield come to mind.

Malefic, pathetic, debased and scorned.

But thats just me.

Ummm, Mods, could we please get this thread back on track re Reecius's brilliant info re the Apocalypse rulebook, and forthcoming releases / rules?

I actually WAS enjoying it, before one member decided to try and antagonise everyone who was trying to help him.

Cheers,

Padre^.

I have a rules question regarding Apocalypse.

For special character use (or special unit use):

1) Does the player ignore the "must be in a XXX army of 1500 points" or do you need that 1500 points to use him?
2) Can you take two or more of him?

I understand Apoc ignores FoC, and I simply assumed (and will continue to do so) that it ignores special character requirements as well.

My assumption is that any entry (unit or character) is an island unto itself, and available for Apocalypse. Ignoring all FoC consideration and/or army special rules for deployment. I just wanted confirmation on that

It would be nice if you could get a chapter specific Battle Company, but I'm guessing that's not in the cards? In any event, the $450 price appears to perfectly cover the infantry in the set, leaving you with 8 "free" Rhinos and a "free" Razorback. Not a bad deal given it's GW, but seeing as how I already have enough Marines to field two Battle Companies already...

dieneske: The only restriction on Apocalypse is that the games are 3000 points. If you wanted a 3000 point army of Abaddons, you could take it. Actually, that sounds like kind of fun....

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Posted By Ozymandias on 08/24/2007 8:59 AM
dieneske: The only restriction on Apocalypse is that the games are 3000 points. If you wanted a 3000 point army of Abaddons, you could take it. Actually, that sounds like kind of fun....

Ozymandias, King of Kings

I have a bone of contention with that.

From what I have seen from people who have held this tome in their hands, the 0-1 restriction is lifted, but not the 1 restriction.

As in, "You may only ever have have one of X in your army" type of thing.

Although, who knows until we have book in hand.

But even I who sees vast potential in apocalypse has to admit that numerous clones of special characters is kinda stretching the limits of logical credibility, even for GW standards.

the book says the only real rule for force org is that you must obey rules for a squad.

for example

the squad must be the correct size and have only the option allowed in the codex, ie. no 10 man termie squad with all assault cannons, or 6 special weapon sm squad, etc.

other than that, you can put down whatever you like.

Hellfury,
My desire wasn't for multiple special characters. As you have noticed, I have a soft spot for Shrike's Wing. I want to know if I could have two. I don't want 5 Abaddons or 3 Living Saints (though mult. Living Saints might be fun and fluffy...what says Apocalypse more than multiple Greater Avatars of the Emperor Hisself).

As Reecius states, the Unit itself is inviolate (so much for my 5 assault cannon Termie unit being official, though it would be officially awesome). That makes sense, and still allows plenty of flexibility.

Phil Kelly mentioned having multiples of the same special character at LA GD so I am going off of what he said there. He also said that it wouldn't make sense.

Note, you wouldn't actually be using 10 Abaddons, you would be using 10 uber-Chaos Lords who all happen to have the same stats and equipment as Abaddon. That's how I would justify it from a fluff perspective (not that I'd ever take 10 Abaddons...).

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Posted By Reecius on 08/24/2007 9:29 AM
the book says the only real rule for force org is that you must obey rules for a squad.

for example

the squad must be the correct size and have only the option allowed in the codex, ie. no 10 man termie squad with all assault cannons, or 6 special weapon sm squad, etc.

other than that, you can put down whatever you like.

Hmmm... would that apply to units like Armored Fists?  For example, would you still need to field 1 Infantry Platoon per Armored Fist platoon?

Nope.
But each armored fist platoon would have to have 10 men, 1 chimera and only one special and one heavy weapon, etc.

Posted By Padre on 08/23/2007 6:14 PM

 

Also, going back a couple of pages, I'm pretty sure that Forgeworld have confirmed / commented that a Reaver Titan will be released sometime towards the end of 2007

Padre^.

anybody verify this?  Link etc

Hi Beef,

From memory, I actually read that rumour in a post here at Dakka which was a round up of FW rumours from a Games Day, but can't for the life remember which one.

I did a bit of research - Here's a link to a 40K Online thread which discusses the Reaver in connection with the Adeptus Mechanicus IA Book (about halfway down the page.

 http://www.40konline.com/mos/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=861&?topic=139878.msg1743575;topicseen

Hope this helps, interested to see if you can find any further confirmation (I love my Armorcast Reaver, but FW is nice stuff...shame it's exorbitant.)

EDIT - here's another link:

http://www.tv.com/users/TheEmpsChamp/profile.php?action=show_blog&entry=m-100-24986203

Cheers,

Padre^.

I have a question regarding the Necron Army. Have they been given anything new in the Apocolypse Codex besides the crazy special rule regarding the monolith phalanx?

They get a Pylon as well. Plus, every army gets new background material.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

So,

So,

So,
Does anyone have confirmation of which Titans are supported in Apocolypse?

From the various posts I think: Ork Stompa, Warlord and Warhound?(I haven't heard anything about Eldar)
Does the Necron Pylon sort of count as thier Titan thingie?

Hey Reecius, did you happen to glance at the Strategic Assets section? I'm looking over the leaked Datafax for the Battle Company and can't figure out what the "Careful Planning" rule does. Any ideas?

Yeah, there were rules for the warhound, warlord, two types of stompas, one normal one for a big mek, and the eldar reveneant (with pulsars or sonic lances). There was also the tyranid hirodule and Heirophant.

and Bigred, i honestly can't remember what the careful planning strategic asset did, i will check though next time i am in the store. There were a ton of strategic assets, i couldn't remember them all unfortunately.

thanks for the link padre

Beef,

Anytime - just hope the rumours turn out to be true.

Argggh, what am I talking about ? ...can't justify buying a Forgeworld Warhound, let alone their no-doubt-impressively-expensive version of a Reaver... 

Just a question though...can anybody out there tell me anything about the Warlord Titan datasheet in Apocalypse? (Apart from the fact it's big...)

Cheers,

Padre^.

9 structure points, 6 void shields, 2500 points, two torso weapons, two arm weapons and some deffensive weapons two IIRC.

the thing was slowed powerful.

I really need to start the "buy Toreador a reveneant fund". I have always wanted one, and now I have yet another reason to get one. Sigh.... I hear they kick butt in apoc too.

It just makes a lot of the things I want to do with Forgeworld items so much more tempting.

I used to have an Armorcast revenant, a shame now that I ebayed it a while back

Honestly, I'd be scared to use a FW titan in a game.. with my luck it'll get knocked off the table and shatter into a million pieces.

The way my luck goes though, I would be the one knocking it off the table. If I am going to be knocking it off a table, I just as well be playing with it rather than just destroying a display.

Posted By Necros on 08/29/2007 9:21 AM
I used to have an Armorcast revenant, a shame now that I ebayed it a while back

Honestly, I'd be scared to use a FW titan in a game.. with my luck it'll get knocked off the table and shatter into a million pieces.

  That's the nice thing about Armourcast's titans, they have fewer parts than your average space marine. 

Thanks Reecius...Yee-HAH!

Sorry to ask you to expand...but any idea what weapons will be available for selection?

I mean, the Quake and Volcano cannons, Plasma Blastgun and  Missile Launcher are no-brainers, but any other ideas?

Reason for asking is to give me some advance warning if need to start converting any more guns for my Warlord.

Cheers,

Padre^.

Posted By Toreador on 08/29/2007 12:29 PM
The way my luck goes though, I would be the one knocking it off the table. If I am going to be knocking it off a table, I just as well be playing with it rather than just destroying a display.

you know thats exactly my thoughts so my FW one stays locked up and i bought a reaver and warhound armor cast version.  They seem more durable

Padre, as far as I am concerned, YOU do not need any more Gun-variants on your Warlord. IMO you have too many..........

Please stop killing all of us at 5000plus with it........lol

I have thought of a good gun to put on your Warlord....

Tissue paper Cannon....R 1", Heavy 1 Blast, Str2, AP6.

If you fielded this next month I would not have any probs with it.......................

I dont know whaty you are complaining about. The number of lascannon you can have in 2500pts of infantry, let us assume you have six marine las/plas squads and ther plasma is out of range, that ios still twenty one lascannon, which means fourteen hits

Hmm, maybe I'll actually get to use those Tyranid 2nd ed vehicles I've had collecting dust for years.

Now I just need to find stats for them. I heard someone say that theres a VDR in Apocalypse, is there something for the nids? The spawning rules in Chapter Approved are a bit out of date.

Beef,

Agreed...I'm very loath to use any of my FW models in games regularly, due to the possibility of damage. The Armorcast stuff, on the other hand, I've never had a problem with. BTW, I'm considering a FW Warhound a bit down the track...what was the casting quality like ? I've heard a few stories...

Akira... Nice try, but...No. The tissue paper gun will not see the light of day.

Wok, I don't think there's VDR rules in Apocalypse, I think what they were saying was that VDR will be free to use in Apoc. (I've got those models too... I was just going to use them as souped-up BIG Carnifexes...)

Cheers,

Padre^.

Awww, no tissue gun.

Maybe a version like the grot-gun, but you shoot a marine at them(aka Drop pod)