6656
Post by: Storm Lord
I was thinking the other day about how the Imperium is going to fair in the 'years' to come. With Abbadon coming out the eye of Terror at the Head of so many Black Crusades  , and the overly cheerful Tau and their Greater good assaulting the Eastern Fringe  , and the Necrons and Ctan awakening in the middle of the Imperium its self how much longer can it actually last for?
Lots of fluff says it will always keep going, whilst others seem to say it'll fall as early as next week! So please vore, and then leave your opinion and possibly some fluff to say why, or just do one of the options. Ta!
6854
Post by: InyokaMadoda
Don't forget the orks! We're continually told that if the orks ever rallied together, they would completely swamp the Imperium. The only thing saving the Imperium is the fact that the orks are so disorganised. Ghazghkull almost managed it, so surely it's only a matter of time before another ork has a big enough vision from Gork and Mork and unleashes the biggest can of woop-ass!
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!
6656
Post by: Storm Lord
I think if the Orks ever did rally together it would spell the end of their species! With no one but themselves to fight they'd probably wipe their own species out.
And I hadn't forgoten the Orks, I just couldn't be bothered to add every race to the list...
But big threat they certainly are, its only the infighting that keeps them disunited, besides the Orks are essentially Fungus, a large batch of weed killer will do the trick
7129
Post by: Gary
In like many years time surely the imperium, Tau, eldar etc be wittled down to extinction?
We argued this at school once (a long long long debate.....) and we came to the decision that there would eventually be an endless war between the Nids, Deamons and C'tan
6854
Post by: InyokaMadoda
I don't know that it would end their species, but they'd definitely be quite bored!
Laughing about the weed killer idea!  Maybe there's a new weed whacker weapon that should be on dreadnoughts when facing orks!
6656
Post by: Storm Lord
Gary wrote:In like many years time surely the imperium, Tau, eldar etc be wittled down to extinction?
We argued this at school once (a long long long debate.....) and we came to the decision that there would eventually be an endless war between the Nids, Deamons and C'tan
maybe, but remember the Ctan have a plan to 'turn the warp off' which essentiallly screws the Deamons, and to stop tyranids blow up the hive fleets, they can't get back up so easily.
And you know the Weed killer will work! the Imperials are just to stupid to think of it
7129
Post by: Gary
getting the orks to unite must be like getting a bunch of chavs (is this a word used outside the UK?) to come to Games Day
6656
Post by: Storm Lord
Or getting an emo to look on the bright side of life...no wait, ive done that! I'd say its harder, theres what maybe a few Thousand Chavs, and a few billion Orks... I don't like those odds
7129
Post by: Gary
orks are probably more intelligent though
6838
Post by: 1hadhq
Reality: the imperium can not fall because its too integrated in the game.
fluff: when those last battle came,its said the primarchs will lead again.
IMHO the emperor is then on their side (physical or any other way).Nothing can hope to win against a united imperium 
End is : a galaxy to become a black hole.
6854
Post by: InyokaMadoda
I see it more as a three way endless war between the tyranids, daemons and orks as all could be thought of as being swarms of a kind, whereas the others are more reliant on maintaining their numbers. Many races have a distinctly finite number of members of their species or are crumbling away after having made too many enemies already. You can see how some species will want to eradicate others, but there doesn't seem to be the significant one-minded obliteration mentality towards any of the three I've mentioned, in any plausible way that could actually succeed.
6838
Post by: 1hadhq
nids: burnout by turboevolving genetic,first down.
orks: no fun without humans, second down.
c'tan: seen mars and misunderstood computervirus as entertainment for necrons,third down.
6696
Post by: dmkjesus
while the imperium should be wiped out already it isnt because gamesworkshop would never let the imperium die
993
Post by: xenite
4 if I start a Chaos army
5 if I start a Space Marine army
6838
Post by: 1hadhq
dmkjesus wrote:while the imperium should be wiped out already it isnt because gamesworkshop would never let the imperium die
So,why should the imperium be "wiped out" ? 
6656
Post by: Storm Lord
because they've had too much time in the centre of attention! They can get really boring quickly, and kill each other for the trivial matter of maybe having 6 fingers on one hand. Just in case this is a sign of Chaos.
Besides the Imperium is slowly shrinking and dying already, one day too many Imperial Monkeys will die in battle and there won't be enough left to even defend Terra!
6838
Post by: 1hadhq
Attention makes you suffer,not "easy going" as other races,wich hides behind the imperium (eldar,tau).
If every other race must fight those battles the imperials did,how many will survive?
No problem for nids and orks i guess
6656
Post by: Storm Lord
Or Necrons, remember they can't actually be destroyed, they rebuild/reform in Tomb Worlds, hence they also fit into the Ork/Nid super group.
As for Orks actually fire can destroy their spores and so can stop them reproducing, so they can also be wiped out
7129
Post by: Gary
Storm Lord wrote:Or Necrons, remember they can't actually be destroyed, they rebuild/reform in Tomb Worlds, hence they also fit into the Ork/Nid super group.
Surely Necron tomb worlds could be mass orbital bombarded? The death toll would be huge (the necrons would resist ofc) but it could be done
6656
Post by: Storm Lord
Well, the thing is that would also involve blowing up Mars, being the Resting place of the Void Dragon and all. Also theres no reason why new complexes and Tomb ships can't be built-Tomb spyders already maintain so building isn't a far off step, and Necrons will repair in the nearest working complex to them.
So whilst yes they could be destroyed, the Necrons would have many more to go to, and build more, hence never being destroyed
6838
Post by: 1hadhq
If not wiped out,to exist without a dex is more frightening.Great chance for
races to be kicked out of wh40k.
6656
Post by: Storm Lord
Gw would never get rid of a Dex now, its too much of a risk, should the Necron Dex go then I'll be the first to Lenton HQ with a flaming Pitch Fork and a gauss weapon!
back to the thread-surely some day the Imperium will rip its-self apart, people will get fed up with the Inquisition butchering their nieghbours one day won't they? Then all hell will break loose, as people lead mass revolts in the streets!
221
Post by: Frazzled
Imperium yes, humanity not at all. As the Emperor in another milieu once said "humanity is about to re-invent itself." Out of the chaos of massive invasions will come new human empires which will wax majestic and put a proper DAOT smackdown upon the xenos. The tools are all about for another great leap forward that will make the Tau advance look like fumbling steps of a baby elephant.
Interestingly, all it takes is one renegade tech saavy human planet to catch hold of the remains of a necron ship and viola the galaxy is again humanity's plaything.
6656
Post by: Storm Lord
It does sound a promising future when you put it like that
6838
Post by: 1hadhq
To revolt against the Inquisition ? Most citizens didn't see members of such secretive organizations for generations.
More common are revolts against governors. If successful overwhelming the arbites and pdf, the IG will handle it.
A very large uprising can invite SM to join in. Else fails = exterminatus = End of uncontrollable planets :(
221
Post by: Frazzled
Yes just because the AM couldn't reverse engineer their way out of a paper bag don't think everyone are in that bad a shape
Even without Necron tech, just think what would happen if a moderately advanced planet/system rediscovers the scientific method or even semi-modern manufacturing techniques. There are massive numbers of examples of DAOT they could start with, plus lots of xenos scum technology.
Visualize:
*Warships produced at a rate akin to the US naval production in WWII.
*Troops armed not with lasgun tech, but plasma/melta weaponry or reverse engineered ion rifles/shuricats.
*Leman Russ II Main Battle Skimmer.
4358
Post by: glowgos
Malthusian theroy seem to be prevailing here, but if the repressive lords of Tera were removed it would lead to humanities greatest strength innovation in the face of adversity.
then jfrazells ideas would relay come into their own. Im personally a fan of titans in assault torpedoes 
Then humanity could flex its muscles once again
221
Post by: Frazzled
That would definitely give new meaning to "prepare a boarding party" wouldn't it.
6838
Post by: 1hadhq
Storm Lord wrote:Gw would never get rid of a Dex now, its too much of a risk, should the Necron Dex go then I'll be the first to Lenton HQ with a flaming Pitch Fork and a gauss weapon!
 Just wait 1 or 2 years,(2010 ?),your necron dex comes surely.
Necrons, not total unfamiliar with, I own a few (1000-1500),I'll guess
A New dex is unavoidable. 
6887
Post by: Greebynog
The imperium's screwed hardcore like porno-flick bitches. The enimies are numerous, they are riddled with traitors, they can't decide who the real enemy is. Obviously, in game terms they'll never be destroyed, but from a fluff perspective, it's only a matter of time.
6838
Post by: 1hadhq
jfrazell wrote:Yes just because the AM couldn't reverse engineer their way out of a paper bag don't think everyone are in that bad a shape
Even without Necron tech, just think what would happen if a moderately advanced planet/system rediscovers the scientific method or even semi-modern manufacturing techniques. There are massive numbers of examples of DAOT they could start with, plus lots of xenos scum technology.
Visualize:
*Warships produced at a rate akin to the US naval production in WWII.
*Troops armed not with lasgun tech, but plasma/melta weaponry or reverse engineered ion rifles/shuricats.
*Leman Russ II Main Battle Skimmer.
Today it looks like the Imperium is screwed,but its only a decoy to lure others in a false safety.
 At his full strength,all xeno are screwed!
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Post by: Greebynog
That's part of what I'm saying, eventually the imperium will tear itself apart in a flurry of infighting and false accusation.
284
Post by: Augustus
The Emperor is Mortal.
When he dies, the Astronomicon goes out and humans can no longer use interstellar travel.
Eventually the Emperor will die of old age, if not some other more direct cause, and unless he leaves a successor of like power humanity is surely doomed.
This leaves the galaxy to the space fairing races. Eldar, Tau Tyranids and Necrons. It seems most likely that the Tyranids are the sure winners there for numbers alone, particularly when the imperium can no longer hold them off in the galaxy.
284
Post by: Augustus
PS Orks can't make interstellar ships, while fierce, they are a non factor. It's amazing they have not been exterminated yet (especially given the status of their last codex) by one of the space fairing races.
221
Post by: Frazzled
Greebynog wrote:That's part of what I'm saying, eventually the imperium will tear itself apart in a flurry of infighting and false accusation.
Sounds like your average family reunion 
221
Post by: Frazzled
Augustus wrote:The Emperor is Mortal.
When he dies, the Astronomicon goes out and humans can no longer use interstellar travel.
Eventually the Emperor will die of old age, if not some other more direct cause, and unless he leaves a successor of like power humanity is surely doomed.
This leaves the galaxy to the space fairing races. Eldar, Tau Tyranids and Necrons. It seems most likely that the Tyranids are the sure winners there for numbers alone, particularly when the imperium can no longer hold them off in the galaxy.
The difficulty with that theory-while an excellent strategy-is that in the long run humanity can re-adjust. Humanity was plying the stars in the DAOT before the Astrolasgun. In fact, this might speed my argument. By cutting off vast segments, it creates a plethora of laboratories to re-start scientific advancement. And then Whammo! ( TM) here comes the new crusade.
6500
Post by: MinMax
Augustus wrote:The Emperor is Mortal.
Is he? Given that he was born 48,000 years before the present-day of Warhammer 40K, I doubt it.
284
Post by: Augustus
Well yea he is. He is stuck in the Golden throne to keep his body alive he eats psykers every day.
Right?
Someone back me up here!
6838
Post by: 1hadhq
MinMax wrote:Augustus wrote:The Emperor is Mortal.
He just missed "IM"mortal
Is he? Given that he was born 48,000 years before the present-day of Warhammer 40K, I doubt it.
Details? You know his birthday exact?
6255
Post by: Tenth Speed Writer
I'm going on the idea of humanity reinventing itself through the destruction of the Imperium.
The isolation of human worlds through the Emperor's death, or even just the falling of the Ecclesiarchy, would be enough to bring about a second dawn of technology in the re-envisioned Imperium.
221
Post by: Frazzled
1. Augustus is correct. He is either or life support to the Nth power or he's actually dead.
2. Yes indeed, its almost nurglike in its simplicity, through death will come the rebirth of humanity.
4672
Post by: lifeafter
This thread is filled with more heretics than a Michael Bolton Concert.
Have faith in the Imperium. Fear not the Xeno, the Mutant, or the Heretic because the Imperium is protected by Fluff Space Marines which are INFINITELY more powerful than Game Space Marines.
We better start exalting praise for the Emperor before we attract some unwanted attention... 
6656
Post by: Storm Lord
The Emperor could be killed quite quickly if the Ctan did get round to shutting off the Warp, his Corpse int eh Material realm, couldn't really work to good when his soul in the warp gets shut off from him. Its like getting a computer to work without Electricity.
And if that happens all human psykers die, making interplanetary travel and communication really really hard. Age of Strife M2 here we come!
5917
Post by: Mekboy
I got a look at the new rulebook, especially the timeline, and yes, I'd say the imperium is majorly srewed. For example, the golden throne might be broken, and the techpriests can't fix it. Oh dear...
6838
Post by: 1hadhq
No,the imperium is not screwed.Its obvious that a "dark,grim future,eternal war" background is written
by gw at the cost of someone,the audience can feel with.
Humans have a better imagination of the feelings of other humans than xenos.
If you Look at some codices,this "were the best and winning" is in every one of them.
Take the full series of dex and you'llsee this "promoting a great future"in the backgroundpages.
So, all are happy because they will win and all are screwd
because they loose.Nobody can be 100% victorious,so everyone could be screwed
284
Post by: Augustus
What?
3552
Post by: mattyboy22
On a side note, although it would be nice and quite interesting to see something "significant" change in either the 40K or Fantasy world, nothing serious will ever change. When I worked for GW we were at a meeting and that's what a higher up told us, nothing significant will change and the results of all these summer campaigns are already pre-determined.
3675
Post by: HellsGuardian316
I find it hard to vote as from a GW point of view, each race has been designed to be the ultimate antagonist to every race and can never defeated unless this this and this blah blah blah, you get the drift.
So IMHO, if all that fluff was set aside for a while and common sense prevails, this is what i think would happen
Orks
Although they would swamp the universe if they ever united I don't think they could stay united for long enough to do anything due to their waring tendencies. I imagine that their race would slowly dwindle into small warbands of pirates, they aren't smart enough to stay hidden away. But they would never be truely extinct.
Tau
Although technologically advance and in some ways superior. They have taken on more than they can chew in terms of enemies and would be pushed back into their part of the galaxy and unable to expand their teritory
Necrons
Hidden away dorment in planets, I would guess that as things came to a close they would be unable to compete with the increasing numbers of enemies now controlling their worlds and would eventually remain hidden, waiting for another oppurtunity to try again.
Dark Eldar
They might be mean an evil but they are also intelligent, I would imagine that as everything came to a close they would still be around, only suviving by raiding and plundering where they can but would not be threat to any of the remaining races.
Eldar
A dying dwindling race, but also the most intelligent (non warp) race, they would suvive, and in the battles to come would join together to push the advantage. i believe that this race would definatly suvive but their numbers would have been dwindled slightly.
Chaos
I believe the days of Chaos are numbered, against the onslaught of so many enemies they would eventually sucumb and be unable to wage war as they once did. I would see that every couple of millenia the forces of chaos would have recovered enough forces and would attempt to wage war again in huge numbers meaning there would never be a true end to war in the universe.
Space Marines
Their numbers will be heavy hit in the fighting extent that Space Marines would never truely be a power again in the universe. Even if the Emporer did recover to lead his people the Marines would still take the brunt of the fighting and thus be greatly damaged .
Imperials(SOB, Guard, Inquist, etc)
The numbers of the Imperium are countless, so out of all the races, Humans would stand tall against all others, or at least stand slightly taller. The losses to the Imperium would huge! But in the grand scheme the losses wouldn't be enough to stop the Human race from suviving.
Tyranids
I imagine that the Tyranids would remain the greatest threat to the universe. Like the Chaos they have the chance and the time to rebuild and war again and again. This race I believe will always be a huge threat, but would never rule the galaxy.
the End Game
As everything comes to a cresendo, I would like to believe a little common sense would seep in. The Imperium, Marines, Eldar and Tau would form a loose, and I mean LOOSE alliance to fight off the aggressors. On the otherside would be Chaos and Dark Eldar.
Necrons, Tyranid and Orks all fight for their own agenda so if they did ally they would keep back stabbing each other.
As all the enemies are defeated one by one I have no doubt that the loose alliance would become void and Imperials and Marines would begin fighting the Eldar and Tau, most likely started by the xenophobic Imperials.
In the End End Game, i would believe that Eldar would most likely Flee to the far reaches of the galaxy away from the Imperium and Tau. The Marines would be too few numbers to pose any threat. The Tau may be all but extinct as even they cannot compete with the full might of the imperium.
As for the Imperials ... well ... An educated guess would say that the Imperials would end up in a bitter civil war, starting the cycle again. It seems nigh impossible that any one race would become extinct due to the size a universe actually is.
In Closing
After all the dust settles and all the battle are fought, I imagine that it would be the Imperium that comes up on top, even if it is battered and bruised. I can't see that the Imperium would ever run out of people to fight as each race would keep coming back until the Imperium finds a way to safely attack or close the eye of terror or the homeworlds of the Tyranids are destroyed. But the Imperium would now have a strong hold of the universe despite this.
Thanks for Reading...
I hope that my little bit of fiction has been interesting or at least amusing to read. It has been written without any bias to any race using my own understanding of them, I play Marines, Tau and Orks after all, and none of them have a happy ending, hehe
3675
Post by: HellsGuardian316
Will quickly add...
The above was derived with the assumptions that the Emperor does not return as the Star Child God, the C'Tan don't seal the Warp, The Chaos Gods Don't consume the blahdy blah blah and so on and so on. As I didn't think it would happen in all likelyhood.
6656
Post by: Storm Lord
from a GW point of view it wouldn't happen sadly. Thats the one problem I have with 40K iot doesn't feel like it's actually going any where. I understand why, so as not to upset anyone or break armies-but it would be nice if they did an expansion, maybe 50k just to show what actually does happen in their future-even if it doesn't effect the game itself.
Just to contradict myself, in some of the codexes-like tau they do appear to move forward in time (Shadow sun and the Third sphere expansions and useage of vespid) Yet the time frame on the whole never moves forward.
And mattyboy22, now i'm just cross with GW for fixing the results of Summer Campains, it makes me wonder what th e point of posting results is-or even why they run them
6838
Post by: 1hadhq
Many codices were released with a campaign (armageddon,black crusade) but
none of them did any changes at the background or timescale.
Far worse, some armylists of these dex got obsolete ( BT, SA, latd) !
IMHO campaigns achieved nothing for the background.
3552
Post by: mattyboy22
Storm Lord:
It's not that the results are fixed, it's that the campaign outcome is pre-determined. For example, GW had already determined that no matter what, the "bad guys" are defeated and retreat to lick their wounds and the "good guys", although sustaining heavy losses have won the day.
All those percentages you see about who's winning what sector are based on real reporting (except maybe for places like Caliban and whatnot that would have a possibly significant fluff result).
Again, the only thing that is planned out is who will win and what heroic characters will die (ie, Valten). Nothing can really change because people's armies will be invalidated. What would have happened if Eldrad activated the Blackstone Fortress for it's "intended purpose" and destroyed the C'tan? No more Necrons which means possible lost revenue and complaints.
So what's the point? Well, people certainly do get jazzed up about these things and add stuff to thier armies for all the super mega-battles and whatnot. Plus, they get to release campaign books with army lists that are new or tend to feature low selling models as a main component (Slayer Army or Black Orc Army anyone?, I know I sold a few complete armies to cusomters and had to put inextra orders for things we almost NEVER sold). Also, if you pass by a GW store and see thirty people going nuts during one the the big campaign games, aren't you more likely to check out what's going on rather then when it's the four regulars playing?
Summer campaings are all about getting players active. Whether that means buying more stuff, dragging some friends in, or pulling more people passing by into the store, they seem to work for GW.
6500
Post by: MinMax
MinMax wrote:Augustus wrote:The Emperor is Mortal.
He just missed "IM"mortal
Is he? Given that he was born 48,000 years before the present-day of Warhammer 40K, I doubt it.
Details? You know his birthday exact?
The Emperor was born in the 8th millennium BC, in central Anatolia.
6703
Post by: Bumfacepik
Methinks that the imperium will be on the brink of extinction but then the emporor comes back to life.... Ya I hope it dosen't happen.
6838
Post by: 1hadhq
@minmax:
In central anatolia = "çatal hüyük" or any other pre-agricultural settlement?
Where did you find this Information?
6656
Post by: Storm Lord
Mattyboy22:
Thanks for the update, I though you meant who actually won gaming wise was fixed, my bad for misinterpreting that. I just wish it would have some proper influence on the background and future, or that the 'good guys' wouldn't always win. It gets boring eventually
6887
Post by: Greebynog
In the new book all the background talks about the coming of 'the end time'. Doesn't bode well for man.
6838
Post by: 1hadhq
End time - bad move for the background story.
If gw upscales the menace to much,they immobilize themself.
:S
6656
Post by: Storm Lord
In reality it'll just be to get people talking about where GW will go next. No doubt in 6th ed they'll say Mankind reigns supreme and all the Xeno races are in for the end times!
6838
Post by: 1hadhq
Must every author follow the "easy route" ?
Part one : regional threat, Part two : planetary threat, Part three : Sector threat;
I suppose more fun at different locations:
Fight at -ork infested systems, -eldar exodite world, -necron tomb world, -tau sept world, 
extend the storyline and more terrain to build
7215
Post by: Space_hoppo
The Warhammer 40k is on a floating timescale. But at the end game i think that:
A) The Imperium is doomed, beset on all sides by enemies including the old Man vs. Himself one. There not be much hope for them.
B) Orks will eventully break down due to constant infighting and Tyranids killing off ork homeworlds (Tyranids like orky Mushrooms).
C) The Tau are trapped in a tiny area of space, with Hive Fleet Kraken on one side and a Ork Empire on the other, eventully they will be crushed by countless foes.
D) Necrons! Yes this little buggers have bases on Mars (the Void Dragon the most powerful of the C'tan lives under the surface) and Cadia (the towers of Cadia stop the advance of the Eye of Terror similar to a Geller Field.) Control of these means the Imperiums major defences are screwed up.
E) The Eldar and Dark Eldar. Eldar will get annoyed with humanity killing itself and will leave with thier craftworlds to newer places outside the Galaxy. While the Dark Eldar can live in the Webway killing themselves if they get too bored.
F) Tyranids. The Major threat to the Imperium. However they will not attack Necrons and vice virsa. (Tyranids cannont eat Phase Metal and Tyranids have no souls so the Necrons cannot detect them)
What will happen?
With the other races gone the Tyranids will eat the Galaxy and move on.
Orks will most likely live onboard Space Hulks and go around hunting each other.
The Eldar will leave to a better place.
The Tau will be eaten by orks and Tyranids. The Necrons will sleep forever more waiting for more souls to land on the Planets.
At least thats what i think
6656
Post by: Storm Lord
Maybe but its been shown that even the Imperium can beat Hive fleets, so maybe they aren't such a big threat?And I like the idea the Orks will eat the Tau...
The races of the Galaxy should just point the Orks in the direction of the hive fleets and say "Go fight them, they're hard and strong, it'll give you a good fight" and let them kill each other off, whilst the rest of the races sit back and sunbathe until, well until they get bored
7215
Post by: Space_hoppo
They have done, well the tyranids are now heading for the orks. But the winner will be stronger than the other 2 combined (orks get stronger with warfare so if they win they have loads of strong orks) And tyranids would have taken millions of ork DNA (orks are natural winners) and this makes the winner a bigger threat in the longer term of say a couple 100 years
6838
Post by: 1hadhq
A horde of greenskins is reduced in numbers,when it had
fought for "whos da boss", main advantage (endless flood of boyz)
then gone.They never care about conquer the galaxy,only the
next battle is important for a race that forgot his original name (krork)
Nids benefit from new DNA,they need different foes to grow.100 years
against orks will downgrade them.
A standstill struggle is inevitable between two fast
reproducing forces, when no allies join in to turn the
outcome. I see noone willing to intervene there.
7215
Post by: Space_hoppo
Maybe so but that doesnt stop the imperium from being any less screwed, these are but 3 hive fleets. The tyranids have more Hive Fleets that the Imperium has worlds (check the Nid codex, it does actully say so in there)
6838
Post by: 1hadhq
You believe in C: nids? Millions of hive fleets would eat the whole galaxy in a few years.WH40k never made it this long time if any
race was this superior.Some dexwriters really promoted the success of whatever race they describe to a crazy level.
The imperium is needed,even by nids,as opponent and without 40k ends.
7215
Post by: Space_hoppo
Yup i have to agree there, without the Imperium there would be no 40k (no super soldiers and no cannon fodder not too mention Inquisitors and SoB.) So really the Imperium will survive so as 40k can make money out of it being doomed.
6656
Post by: Storm Lord
I now feel stupid for not saying "don't involve GW finances in this thread" *To self, whilst smacking head on wall* Idiot idiot idiot.
How well do people think the Next Black Crusade will do, when it gets launched? Afterall the Imperium barely held on last time-does it have the strength to hold on again, after all the Eldar (and rumour has it the Necrons) had to help last time
7215
Post by: Space_hoppo
Well first Mr Abbadon has to make up the loses from the last one. However the Eldar will probabily not turn up. Due to the Death of the greatest farseer of all time (he looked into the eyes of Slaanesh and now lives in many hundreads of soul stones of whom Slannesh is desparate to get his hands on) All the population of Cadia is now 2/5 of what it used to be (from 800 million to about 230 million. But knowing that Abbadon is gaining power and the subburness of the Imperium i think they will do just fine, eventully
6656
Post by: Storm Lord
Abbadon has lots of troops at his disposal, Daemons, Renegade Primrachs, and probably the bulk of the Traitor Legions are still alive. Surely he could sweep out now and finish the Cadian Gate? Why wait?
And thanks for kind of supporting my point (Eldar and large Imp deaths) it shows the Imperium isn't able to hold its own, therefore is doomed
7215
Post by: Space_hoppo
Mainly because Abbadon lost. Chaos doesn't take losing too well. While most of the Traitor legions are alive they do not have the numbers to keep on fighting forever (estimates put at about 1 million CSM max at the time of the Horus Heresy) take into accout 10,000 years of fighting. Also while Abbadon could attempt to now many of the other CSM forces are reaping the rewards, World Eaters are out raiding places Word Bearers are preaching on new worlds and so on. So it will wait a while and somehow the Imperium will pull it out of its hat, maybe this time at Mars of nearer earth.
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Post by: Storm Lord
he only lost beacuse GW couldn't let him win! Results wise I beleive he did, but GW said "Oh he was pushed back but at appauling losses" purely because if he had 'won' (Which he technically did) it would have changed their view of how the 40k future should be.
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Post by: Space_hoppo
They can't let him win, Cadia isnt far from Terra if he took that. Its just a short hop to Terra. Maybe the Star Child Cycle will be done by then.
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Post by: Storm Lord
I doubt it, GW won't be willing to do that. Besides the Star Child Theory will screw the Imperium so it doesn't matter if it happens
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Post by: Space_hoppo
It will either screw them over, or it will be the start of a great Crusade all over again.
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Post by: 1hadhq
Space_hoppo wrote:Mainly because Abbadon lost. Chaos doesn't take losing too well. While most of the Traitor legions are alive they do not have the numbers to keep on fighting forever (estimates put at about 1 million CSM max at the time of the Horus Heresy) take into accout 10,000 years of fighting. Also while Abbadon could attempt to now many of the other CSM forces are reaping the rewards, World Eaters are out raiding places Word Bearers are preaching on new worlds and so on. So it will wait a while and somehow the Imperium will pull it out of its hat, maybe this time at Mars of nearer earth.
Space Marine Legions were estimated from 10.000 to 25.000 before heresy,
with 20 its max 500.000. Mind to state where your 1mio comes from??
Ezekyle Abaddon, horus first captain has already proved that he is a monster
of a fighter but no Diplomat .Chaos cannot win,because its unstable nature
lets no room to get along.
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Post by: Space_hoppo
Actully it says that each one was near 100,000 or 250,000 for the Ultra Marines if i remember but i may have read it wrong if so if true then the number would be about 150,000 CSM. He has the amazing Ability to rally people to his Cause Abbadon, mostly due to Tzeentch because he's the Dipomat God. So if the factions on Chaos stuck together (like with the splitting of the Primarchs) it would be a dark day, but they would need a major reason to do so.
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Post by: Gareth_Hreidmar
I say the Imperium will last because of this very simple tactical stand point: "They have us completely surrounded.....We can attack from any angle.....They dont have a chance!!"
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Post by: Frazzled
Space_hoppo wrote:Well first Mr Abbadon has to make up the loses from the last one. However the Eldar will probabily not turn up. Due to the Death of the greatest farseer of all time (he looked into the eyes of Slaanesh and now lives in many hundreads of soul stones of whom Slannesh is desparate to get his hands on) All the population of Cadia is now 2/5 of what it used to be (from 800 million to about 230 million. But knowing that Abbadon is gaining power and the subburness of the Imperium i think they will do just fine, eventully
Nah if Chaos is smart it hides out for awhile. The fluff for the 13th Crusade ending was that it will take a decade(s) to form the teeming masses of guard/fleets that are coming Cadia way into a right and proper crusade. Now that Abby and sons are out in the open the Imperium is dropping the Brown Horde to deal with them most harshly. That was Chaos' advantage, they could bail out before the coming backhand. Now everything in the Imperium is moving in their direction-a tsunami of men and material not seen in, well ever. We've just seen the galactic Stalingrad, with the bad boys effectively being pinned at the Cadian gate. Now we're about to see Bagration. You know how this ends, don't you Mr. Abaddon.
They sent 2 billion men into the Sabbat crusade. As Dr. Evil would say, now they are sending gajillions.
Actually once Chaos is kicked, they can turn and deal with those pesky Nids and Tau whilst the marines track down those Necron worlds. Yes, we're definitely at the turning of the tide. A flower was spotted growing outside the Imperial Palace on Terra. Its going to be a good day for Man.
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Post by: Frazzled
Space_hoppo wrote:Maybe so but that doesnt stop the imperium from being any less screwed, these are but 3 hive fleets. The tyranids have more Hive Fleets that the Imperium has worlds (check the Nid codex, it does actully say so in there)
How do you know that? There was one fluff supposition that this is the tip, but it could very well be the main vanguard has already struck.
But agreed on the Orks. Point the saviors of the galaxy at the bugs and say "sic 'em!!!" I always knew one day fungus would save us all.
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Post by: Storm Lord
A flower outside the Imperial palec on Terra is hardly a big deal. So a custodian like gardening doesn't save mankind, at least I hope not
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Post by: Space_hoppo
Maybe the Emporer is going soft with all the being doomed.
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Post by: Storm Lord
if the Emporers going soft humanity really is doomed. Case solved
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Post by: Space_hoppo
Maybe, but if he's re-born anytime soon then problem solved, he only lost to Horus in the first place because he couldnt bear to hurt his favorite son.
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Post by: Storm Lord
If he gets reborn then the Imperium is screwed for two reasons. The first is that he sits on the Golden throne currently right, which holds back a ruptured webway gate he was playing with when Magnus the Red sent him a warning message before the heresy took root. This is now swarming with Daemons, if the Emporer is reborn he will leave the throne and they can pour through and destroy Terra which would collapse the Seat of the Imperium and planets would quickly seceed from its rule whilst its in turmoil.
Secondly, the Imperium would be split as to whether he was telling the truth or was an imposter, bearing in mind no-one alive knows what he looks like. mass revolts would break out as people resort to violence to sort the problem out, destroying the Imperium from within. Even some SM chapters would be unsure who to listen to and may be declared Heretics, who would then go on mass anger rampages for the insult.
Finally, the Emporer can't be everywhere at once, so he would only be able to sort a few problems out at a time, so whilst he goes to the eye of terror the tau can come in from the other side and take over more land and vice versa.
Whew, rant over 
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Post by: Space_hoppo
Actally according to reports from the HH he was every where until he went back to tinker with the webway. I say we find a Eldar Farseer and ask them, but they seem to think its screwed too they get the fall of the eldar heeby jeebys
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Post by: Storm Lord
It's not quite Eldar webway, it's more of a human one that functions in a similar way. And in the HH he seemed to be with Horus most of the time unless a new Primarch was found
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Post by: Space_hoppo
Yeah which is everywhere, Sons of Horus move around alot. I still go with the ask a Eldar farsser they know pretty much anything.
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Post by: Storm Lord
Except how to save their race from extinction! But the Emp wasn't everywhere at once, he can't multitask, being a guy, and so wouldn't be that much use. Besides like I say, there would be a mass schism in the Imperium
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Post by: Space_hoppo
Yeah well. Then ket him slowly die (as he is) on his golden toilet. Just wait 20 years for Abaddons next BC where it shoudl be bigger and nastier.
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Post by: 1hadhq
Space_hoppo wrote:Yeah well. Then let him slowly die (as he is) on his golden toilet. Just wait 20 years for Abaddons next BC where it should be bigger and nastier.
Your can wait the whole eternity and abaddon will lose everytime he tries.
Not even Horus attacked directly,he tricked others to backstab the emperor.
As his plan failed,no traitor was able to fight to the end,they simply fled !
The fool abaddon can't save his primarch at davin,so he got crazed and lives
only for terrorizing the unwary.14th or 15th BC ? It doesn't matter.
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Post by: Space_hoppo
Horus wasn't the one who started the Horus Hersey it was actully the word bearers trying to get him to chaos. Abbadon is a crazy ass fool in this area, and he will use ever tool at his disposal to get Cadia and let his hordes out, Typus now has a forge world near the Cadian System and he's got the Ultimate battle ship the Terminus Est, Maybe not the Emporor himself we'll leave Cypher to that.
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Post by: palaeomerus
The Empire of Man is arbitrarily exactly as screwed as the fluff writers want or need it to be.
In "realistic" terms the Imperium has held out pretty good for 10,000 years despite at least two major civil wars. So what's changed to make it on the edge? Are supplies running out? Is the warp becoming unnavigale? Is th the coming of the Tyranids and revival of the Necrons maybe? If the Emperor launched a great crusade in M41 it'd certainly be easier than conquering Earth and making a treaty with Mars to launch one at the end of old night in M30. So really all that's required is a charismatic leader and Humanity'd be out maniaclly kicking butt and taking names again and ignoring all the angst and dread and doom and such.
In "historic" terms a long dark age usually implies a rebirth and golden age to follow usually occuring as a result of decentralization and competition leading to an environment that supports and values innovation and mixing of cultures to form new more appropriate institutions.
In absolutist "we want an apocalypse" terms the Imperium is probably pretty screwed. Gotterdamerung is sort of a flavor that's implied to drive the fluff. But is it just more "millenial" histeria which has plagued mankind almost forever or is it a real and inevitable outcome to be anticipated and prepared for?
In "Let's keep them buying books and minis as long as we can" terms the Imperium is probably pretty safe.
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Post by: Storm Lord
it's unlikely anyone could arise to be a charismatic leader, all thanks to the Inquisition. They would probably deem him tainted, Tzeentch likes that sort of person, and kill him. Shame because the Imperium really needs someone who can do it. Ah well, shows the rut they've dug themselves into
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Post by: Space_hoppo
As you say, if the Imperium waas to survive they need the power of a Chaos God, actual no thats a bad idea seeing as Tyranids and Necrons have no emotions and hence do not feed god. You know if this was the Imperium of Nids Chaos wouldnt exist! Nothing for them to eat!
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Post by: 1hadhq
Space_hoppo wrote:As you say, if the Imperium waas to survive they need the power of a Chaos God, actual no thats a bad idea seeing as Tyranids and Necrons have no emotions and hence do not feed god. You know if this was the Imperium of Nids Chaos wouldnt exist! Nothing for them to eat!
Power of a Chaos god does give what bonus to the imperium?
Emotions are the Powercell of chaos,all non-nid or non-necron will Feed.
Enough to eat out there! Necrons do both: nullify warp+chaos, disintegrate Biomass =kill nids .
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Post by: Space_hoppo
Tzeentch, he's the person god that makes people get along. Also Tyranids have no emotions and souls. So Chaos and the warp mean nothing to them! Tyranids dont use it to move and neither do necrons. Like the fall of the Eldar gave birth to Slaanesh the fall of the Imperium will give birth to emptyness
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Post by: 1hadhq
Space_hoppo wrote:Tzeentch, he's the person god that makes people get along. Also Tyranids have no emotions and souls. So Chaos and the warp mean nothing to them! Tyranids dont use it to move and neither do necrons. Like the fall of the Eldar gave birth to Slaanesh the fall of the Imperium will give birth to emptyness
C'tan harvest souls. Necrons get their orders from C'tan.
Hive-mind affects communication. The imperium uses astropaths and their psi to relay messages.
Nids are not free of Warp effects.
A "birth of emptyness" from mankind ? Eldar Feed slanesh with obsession,
as psykers they are tastier to Chaos than man. Widespread civilizations,
such as the imperium,cannot be claimed by one Chaos aspect.
Turn humans to a Chaos deity and they wipe the floor with those 4 in their warphome!
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Post by: Space_hoppo
They did, its Khorne. And while the Tyranids use they warp they use it to there own will not the other way around.
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Post by: 1hadhq
They did.Its Khorne.
Shooty imperials worship " CC" Khorne ??
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Post by: Space_hoppo
Think tack a few thousand years. Maybe back to Barbarian Europe. Where man fought man with sword and spear and flesh and bone. Thats where Khorne was born from, those days.
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Post by: 1hadhq
Didn't 3 of the "great" 4 exist after the old ones created the warp to fight C'tan ?
Slanesh as the youngest started with the eldars fall,long before humanity was
existing. On the variety of man every chaosaspect got his share.
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Post by: Space_hoppo
Actully Slaanesh was born in the 29th Millienia (year 29,000) And i dont think so. I'm reading that Doombreed (Khornes first Daemon) was in fact a Earth Warlord. Maybe Hitler or Atillia the Hun. And Khorne is the Oldest of the 4
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Post by: 1hadhq
I heard in another thread the emperor Born at 8000 b.C .
If khorne is the oldest, his first demon from 1000 ad - 2000 ad,
the emperor would be 10.000 years older than chaos ?
Make some deadly warleaders of our past to khornate
demons gives terran history a new look.
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Post by: Dendarien
Realistically we all know the Imperium ain't going nowhere but I love fluff so here goes.
I think many underestimate the Imperium's numbers. Orks, Nids and Necrons all have massive numbers and regenerate those numbers quickly. Humans though on this massive of a scale produce insanely quickly I'm sure.
Not to mention divine intervention on the Imperium's part hehe. Hello Emperor's return at the eleventh hour!
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Post by: Space_hoppo
The Emnporoer was first boen in 8000BC and died over the millenia, then he gained his invincablity about 30000 years in the future. Yeah the Imperium is huge And has untold Billions of men at arms, but it makes a living out of being screwed even the IG codex says that people who collect the IG love the feeling of being screwed beyond all recognition.
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Post by: 1hadhq
Anyone here,playing IG because he wants to be screwed ?
Noone ??
@ space-hoppo: have you ever read dex IG page 2 ??
I don't believe the reason to go IG is to be screwed.
Really, tell me where any army is not cheered in her own dex.
emperor protects
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Post by: Space_hoppo
I did and if i remember it says something about players like being the Guard because you are a human in a galaxy full of aliens death and destruction. Soons like a place of screwedness
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Post by: 1hadhq
Space_hoppo wrote:I did and if i remember it says something about players like being the Guard because you are a human in a galaxy full of aliens death and destruction.
Agreed 
Sounds like a place of screwedness
But you're not alone.As guardsmen only a little piece in a gigantic Force.
Countless Tanks in your side.Don't forget the faith.
Methinks it says: you'll be no supersoldier,noone expects you to survive,
But you could always do your best.
Guard = stubborn enough to win against odds
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Post by: Storm Lord
The Imperiums weakness is beleiving the Emporer is a god, he himself denided it after all. It's this beleif that keeps them from moving on, they stopped thinking for themselves and looked to a corpse to get laws from. Any of the Chaos Gods could pretend they were the 'voice of the Emp' and corrupt more worlds than they have already.
Besides all the Chaos Gods need to do is cloud Earth in another warp storm and the Imperium falls apart, all they have to do is wait for the right time...
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Post by: Space_hoppo
I was looking in the new rule book for some fluff today. It does say that the Imperium is shirking now and is losing momentium and civil war is rife, countless worlds fall to orks, and tyranids ate the only forge world that could make serveral types of tanks and titans.
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Post by: 1hadhq
They ate Mars ?
Or one of a hundred forgeworlds?
Is the new rulebook on a pessimistic stride ?
 dark future - grim dark future - Super grim dark future - lights out
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Post by: 1hadhq
Besides all the Chaos Gods need to do is cloud Earth in another warp storm and the Imperium falls apart, all they have to do is wait for the right time...
A time that never comes.Not easy to wait for an event when using a "chaotic" calendar .
Only the ecclesiarchy wants a "god"-emperor.
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Post by: Space_hoppo
Actually they ate Gryphone IV. Home of the Gryphone Titan legion, the most powerful titan legion ever. But the Tyranids ate it. Also it was the planet which had the STC of the Vanq cannon. And the tank desroyer gun.
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Post by: 1hadhq
Space_hoppo wrote:Actually they ate Gryphone IV. Home of the Gryphone Titan legion, the most powerful titan legion ever. But the Tyranids ate it. Also it was the planet which had the STC of the Vanq cannon. And the tank destroyer gun.
You forgot : Vanq= Stygies III pattern available !
Tech lost in M35 at tigrus,reinvented by gryphonne IV and stygies III.
Other FW try to be succesful.
Destroyer: FW's = Mars,stygies III,triplex phall,Tolkhan,esteban VII,Lucius,m'khand,voss prime.
As I know,Mars has a copy of almost every tech.
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Post by: Storm Lord
Mars will one day just Nuke earth. Lets face it, they should rule the galaxy, without them the Emp and his Imperial monkeys would have been stuck on earth and have no really nice big guns. Forth the age of the Mechanicum!
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Post by: 1hadhq
Age of the Mechanicum:
Starts when they find the "complete STC" horus offered them.
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Post by: Storm Lord
It'll be down the back of the sofa
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Post by: Space_hoppo
The Emperors sofa. Beware of 10,000 year old pizza.
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Post by: 1hadhq
Storm Lord wrote:It'll be down the back of the sofa
Horus lost it there when he read the last WD!
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Post by: Space_hoppo
I think the Imperium will have some random burst of greatness, before it turns into eldar empire 2 and blows itself to bits, making a new empire in its place.
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Post by: Storm Lord
I like the idea WD is still going that far into the future. You'd figure the Emp would have learned from it.
As for a burst of greatness, the Imp's are scared of tech, so i find it hard to beleive that can happen without major changes to Imp society
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Post by: Space_hoppo
Think of the Eldar, they got bored and started having fun. This fun meant that Slaanesh was born and the Empire was destroyed. Maybe they wil find the STC's and win every battle, get superpowered then get bored and do the Eldar thing.
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Post by: Ekranoplan
The Imperium as a governing body, as an institution of government, is completely, 100%, screwed.
However, I believe humanity will survive. The galaxy is a big place, and there are many places to hide. There are still human worlds out there that have not been discovered by the Imperium. There are large areas of "wilderness" space where it is believed alien societies live and die with no knowledge of humanity. Human societies could easily be out there somewhere. Plus, if the Imperium falls, I am sure many of the sub sectors will be able to stand on their own.
Whereas the Imperium needs to deal with every threat, there are some individual sectors out there that have no threats the deal with at all. The only thing they need to worry about is paying their dues to the Imperium, and the off chance that a chaos/dark elder raiding party, or ork hulk appears. And the chances of that are slim to none.
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Post by: 1hadhq
Space_hoppo wrote:Think of the Eldar, they got bored and started having fun. This fun meant that Slaanesh was born and the Empire was destroyed. Maybe they wil find the STC's and win every battle, get superpowered then get bored and do the Eldar thing.
If a guy with a brain got this STC, the gigantic production following will erase any ressources and after the dust had settled,it is a dead "HUMAN ONLY" galaxy.
The rest of mankind will then move on to neighbur galaxys (like nids ).
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Post by: Ebullient
A little off topic, but I love how every Primarch who turned to Chaos went to the Emperor and was like, "Dude, Horus is coming for you man, he's totally  ed up in the head and he's... he's gonna try and destroy the Imperium." And the Emperor was like, "Whatchu talkin bout?" I mean, he didn't believe any of them and then bam, they're all against him. Someone is a little too stupid to be a Emperor.
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Post by: 1hadhq
Ebullient wrote:A little off topic, but I love how every Primarch who turned to Chaos went to the Emperor and was like, "Dude, Horus is coming for you man, he's totally ed up in the head and he's... he's gonna try and destroy the Imperium." And the Emperor was like, "Whatchu talkin bout?" I mean, he didn't believe any of them and then bam, they're all against him. Someone is a little too stupid to be a Emperor.
OT:
Lorgar turned before HORUS. Fulgrim was possesed,not his own will. Angron got crazed by his brain-implants.
Mortarion followed Horus in every way. Magnus used prohibited ways and didn't act until he had russ at his throat.
Kurze ? who knows? . Perturabo as nerd sensed nothing coming.Alpharius and Omegon were lost in spy games.
Who (not magnus) actually warned the emperor??
BOT:
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Post by: Ebullient
Huh, sorry, you're right, I thought at least three of them warned him, but it looks like just Magnus. Sorry.
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Post by: 1hadhq
Ebullient wrote:Huh, sorry, you're right, I thought at least three of them warned him, but it looks like just Magnus. Sorry.
Maybe you mixed Captains and Primarchs?
Some loyal Captains really warned their primarchs and when not heard moved to terra to bring their doubts to him.
Many of them came from almost 4 different legions.
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Post by: Bob the Hobo
Ebullient wrote:Kurze ? who knows? .
If I remember correctly from Lord of the Night, Konrad Curze had a big argument with Rogal Dorn and then some other stuff happened. I gotta check the book again. I do remember that Curze ended up being assassinated.
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Post by: Space_hoppo
Magnus only turned because the Emporor wouldn't believe him. So he sent the Space Wolves to bomb his planet into dust, where he struck a deal with Tzeench to save his Libary and all the knowledge it had. So its kinda the Emporers fault on that one.
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Post by: 1hadhq
Space_hoppo wrote:Magnus only turned because the Emporor wouldn't believe him. So he sent the Space Wolves to bomb his planet into dust, where he struck a deal with Tzeench to save his Libary and all the knowledge it had. So its kinda the Emporers fault on that one.
agreed
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Post by: Storm Lord
if the Primarchs (Loyalists) came back would the Imperium be any safer? or would old rivalries tear it apart ie Johnson and Russ
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Post by: Space_hoppo
It would have people to look up to so there would eb more hope for them! Besides Lion L'Johnson is alive.
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Post by: Storm Lord
Thats arguable depending on where you look for answers, but I know what you're reffering to so its not a problem. But, don't people look up to the Emp already, so it wouldn't make a huge difference. And the Inquisition would go insane, for all they know, they could be traitors-they don't carry round I.D. afterall. No pockets on power armour.
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Post by: Space_hoppo
Have any of you read the blood angels books? Sanguinus reborn! read the books to find what happens, but it shows if a Primarch or Primarch look alike were to come back.
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Post by: 1hadhq
Storm Lord wrote:if the Primarchs (Loyalists) came back would the Imperium be any safer? or would old rivalries tear it apart ie Johnson and Russ
As GW was smart enough to park primarchs as"lost and will return"or"lies in a stasis chamber",
its thinkable for primarchs to come back.
But i doubt, some organizations in power at Terra won't like it.
The emperor is No 1, so a primarch could already dispute who got command if the emp is not
available and I'm sure a lot of SM chapters were happy to obey their ancestor!
My guess: primarchs cannot guarantee safety but their morale boost when leading can turn
pitched battles and a lot of worlds and billion of humans will survive.
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Post by: Space_hoppo
Consider though. Primarch's were beaten a few times by greater Daemons or bloodthrusters. They were not invunerabnle. But seeing one would boost anyones morale at seeing a killing marine in armour carrying a sword or spear or warscythe or even a cow's jaw. It would be able to turn a few battles at least.
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Post by: 1hadhq
Primarchs are not supposed to win alone. They can help and advise.
Winning the battles to come is the loyal Guardsman with his mighty lasgun
Remember old game "nuclear war" ? Just exchange the politican with a lasgun weaving IG
when looking on the victory screen
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Post by: TommyStriker
1hadhq wrote:Primarchs are not supposed to win alone. They can help and advise.
Winning the battles to come is the loyal Guardsman with his mighty lasgun
Remember old game "nuclear war" ? Just exchange the politican with a lasgun weaving IG
when looking on the victory screen
Do you mean Astartes when you say guardsmen? I'm sure they commanded them too, but it's the Space Marines who get things done!
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Post by: 1hadhq
SM are the Elite of the imperium. Fights be done with IG.
Guard will win because SM supported them.
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Post by: Storm Lord
Space_hoppo wrote: bloodthrusters
Huh, that sounds like a daemon on a storm boy rokit to me...
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Post by: Space_hoppo
It could be, or it's because i can't spell to save my life. But Sanguinius had his legs broken by a Bloodthirster. And he was the best swords man in the imperium, after the Emperor.
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Post by: 1hadhq
Space_hoppo wrote:It could be, or it's because i can't spell to save my life. But Sanguinius had his legs broken by a Bloodthirster. And he was the best "words man" in the imperium, after the Emperor.
You meant swordsman?
Sanguinius lost to Horus and i'm not sure if he could best angron.
But the demons lose against Sanguinius+Blood Angels,maybe the combi primarch+legion just better than standalone?
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Post by: Space_hoppo
There we are edited better. He was meant to be the best swordsman, he lost to Horus because he was Daemonically pocessed. i'm not sure about Angron, but he seems more like a axe welding madman rather than a swordsman. Also Sanguinius chipped Horus' armour where the Emperor fired the lance of light that killed him. So he had to be quite good to do that.
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Post by: 1hadhq
I agree, sanguinius was a great swordsman. But to wield a sword doesn't mean you have to win.Other weapons got
their purpose and some traitors pledged to the warp for power.If the primarch's fought each other its hard to say
who will win.
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Post by: Ebullient
Depends which Chaos God wants to win more.
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Post by: 1hadhq
Ebullient wrote:Depends which Chaos God wants to win more.
Any difference between those four? I believe they all want to win and especially be jealous among themself.
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Post by: Storm Lord
I'd say Tzeentch wouldn't want to win too much, if he did he'd have no rivals to scheme against and take all the fun out of his existance. Besides, none of their followers could do it alone.
Khorne: use a big gun against his manic HtH fighters
Tzeentch: Lots of HtH people, (blood angels) against them
Slaanesh: Turn the lights off, stay quiet and shoot, to prevent any stimulative stuff that slaanesh likes, destroying his purpose in the material universe
Nurgle: Throw medicine at them and watch them get better
There, the Imperiums master plan against the Chaos powers all summed up into a short paragraph even Orks could understand. Now too wait for the Inquisition to get me for letting out their defense secrets.
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Post by: 1hadhq
Storm Lord wrote:I'd say Tzeentch wouldn't want to win too much, if he did he'd have no rivals to scheme against and take all the fun out of his existance. Besides, none of their followers could do it alone.
Khorne: use a big gun against his manic HtH fighters
Tzeentch: Lots of HtH people, (blood angels) against them
Slaanesh: Turn the lights off, stay quiet and shoot, to prevent any stimulative stuff that slaanesh likes, destroying his purpose in the material universe
Nurgle: Throw medicine at them and watch them get better
There, the Imperiums master plan against the Chaos powers all summed up into a short paragraph even Orks could understand. Now too wait for the Inquisition to get me for letting out their defense secrets.
Fear not,they didn't know what a masterplan is and you will be safe.
Added by Inquisitor Machtnix ordo hereticus. Praise the emperor!
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Post by: Space_hoppo
Wow, that just might work, btw Nurgle is immune to penicillin. Just so you know.
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Post by: 1hadhq
Space_hoppo wrote:Wow, that just might work, btw Nurgle is immune to penicillin. Just so you know.
You have tested this?
There is even for nurgle a cure. 
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Post by: Space_hoppo
Yes i have, at least the space marine comandments say that penicillin tipped bullets do not work, i suggest a light dosing of flame, followed by sending orks to life there, as a wierdboy looks similar to a great unclean one...
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Post by: 1hadhq
Space_hoppo wrote:Yes i have, at least the space marine comandments say that penicillin tipped bullets do not work, i suggest a light dosing of flame, followed by sending orks to life there, as a wierdboy looks similar to a great unclean one...
Yes,orks may be resilent enough to win a CC fight even if its totally unclean.
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Post by: Storm Lord
I say set orks alight and tehn attack the Nurgle people! Orks being immune to disease I beleive, having never heard of a peice of fungus needing Calpol or whatever
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Post by: 1hadhq
Burn out the disease with flamed orks,okay nurgle down.
Next to hit ruinous power =>
Khorne: invisible tau without any smell(little fishy ones) to shoot his frenzied one by one.
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Post by: Storm Lord
or, get them to fight each other and die, by running away! Should work, the last one might even kill himself-it has been known to happen. or, just set Kharn on them
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Post by: 1hadhq
Kharn is already set as last world eater and will berserk his way through abaddons army if no
other skulls are available.
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Post by: Space_hoppo
Kharn is actually a really nice person if he is not inscane and in a bloodthirsty rage. He has a kill counter with current kills, total kills this campaign and high score in a battle. Even though he cant count past three as four sounds too close to gore, which means blood, thus driving him into a blood rage.
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Post by: 1hadhq
When Kharn meet Tarvitz he really was nice (the past,when he was first captain).
Today hes insane , a backwash of the brain-surgery i guess.
This kill counter must be dark age tech, actual a upgrade like this is worked out
like:" add a servitor to the job for 10 points each" .
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Post by: Space_hoppo
Kharn: arrgh 1 dead, 2 dead, 3 dead, 4.... Gore? Waaagh! Blood for the blood God! Skulls for the Skull throne!
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Post by: 1hadhq
Space_hoppo wrote:Kharn: arrgh 1 dead, 2 dead, 3 dead, 4.... Gore? Waaagh! Blood for the blood God! Skulls for the Skull throne!
khorne survives ? Kharn supporting him with skulls forever? No way, if you kill his berserks and erase his demons
Kharn will lose his rage. - :S -  - 
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Post by: Storm Lord
Or, shoot Kharn, problem solved
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Post by: 1hadhq
Storm Lord wrote:Or, shoot Kharn, problem solved
If you shoot him,he returns. Kharn was already killed before.
(first at terra,i guess).
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Post by: Storm Lord
This time, use a Titan or two. Should do the job.
Now, having read the new Wd issue with the 5th ed stuff in, I found a peice of fluff which says the Golden throne is broken beyond repair, now that if anything shows the Imperium is screwed, soon to be bereft of its beloved Space Emporer
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Post by: 1hadhq
totally unfair, I have to wait a week to get my WD
Lazy translators, all of them
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Post by: Space_hoppo
Yeah and the new rule book is baised around the decline of the Imperium of Man. And yes the golden throne is broke and the emperor is now dying again, he wont last too long.
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Post by: Invisdable
Storm Lord wrote:I was thinking the other day about how the Imperium is going to fair in the 'years' to come. With Abbadon coming out the eye of Terror at the Head of so many Black Crusades , and the overly cheerful Tau and their Greater good assaulting the Eastern Fringe , and the Necrons and Ctan awakening in the middle of the Imperium its self how much longer can it actually last for?
Won't matter when the Thorians get everything pieced together and wake the Emperor up. All he does is chew bubble-gum and psychically flay folks, and Bazooka Joe was deemed heretical.
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Post by: 1hadhq
Space_hoppo wrote:Yeah and the new rule book is baised around the decline of the Imperium of Man. And yes the golden throne is broke and the emperor is now dying again, he wont last too long.
Dying again? He dies and dies and dies?
My emperor won't die as you wish,imperium may have hard times but will prevail.
Remember the majority of humans has never seen their emperor and its no problem if he cannot
walk again between his people.To have his cause in mind and knowing his sacrifice every citizen
will only fight harder without him.
Vengence for HH !
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Post by: Space_hoppo
He may end up being a brain in a jar, which would be alot better off for him as he could ride around on tracks.
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Post by: 1hadhq
Space_hoppo wrote:He may end up being a brain in a jar, which would be alot better off for him as he could ride around on tracks.
don't mess with him, when space marines can be installed in dreads,the emperor fits in a titan!
But you just considered (in another thread) that the emperor is eternal and dies only to be reborn.
New emperor,new crusade!
Or he survives as spirit and leads unbound of time and space humanity in the oncoming storm.
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Post by: Space_hoppo
Forget the Titan, make it a battleship! They may not want him to die, even though he is doomed to die and be re-born he hasn't actually told anyone about it, and if someone goes "Heya i'm the Emperor reborn." He would be killed.
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Post by: 1hadhq
Depends in his return location.He ventured under disguise before,
so he have to reach a person that can classify his identity.
There are a few left at some Marine chapters.
If hes not reborn,but inserted as machinespirit in a
battleship,he shall get the mightiest ever Made one.
A pre age of strife ultra-battleship is the minimum.
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Post by: Space_hoppo
Like a iron clad with Void sields, able to kick any other ships ass in the warzone, it would be a good day for the Imperium.
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Post by: Storm Lord
Ok, a few things to say here:
Firstly: The Thorian theory of ressurecting the Emperor through the Illuminate and Sensei (sp?) people is only a theory, there is no gaurentee it'll work, and with most of the Inquisition against it, believing it to be heretical and therfor killing anyone involved or who mentions it, there is a good chance it will never happen, even if GW were willing to go into the future and wipe a few races out. besides, they wouldn't be able to get to the Imperial Palace and the Emperor without being shot out of Space and killing the Custodes, then if they Emp does come back he'll give them a butt whupping for killing his legion type marines.
Secondly: If the Emp dies this time he won't be able to get reborn through his own strength, his fight with Horus weakened him to much and left his soul drained of power, this time he would just die and have his soul eaten by one of the Chaos Gods, who would then be powerfull enough to destroy the Imperium from the warp and through the Imperial Church-who would be so demoralised the Emp was gone they would turn to Chaos Worship and bring Humanity to its knees.
Lastly: Should the Emp get up from the golden throne in any way there will be problems. firstly, the ruptured webway portal behind it will spill daemons into the heart of Terra, and overwhelm the newly awakened Emp killing him. (see above for consequences) Secondly the Astornomican, which uses the Emp for focusing their beacon will go out, not being able to use him out of the throne. This will make Interplanetary travel hard and slow, and any ships in the warp stuck there forever. WD mentions what happened once when it dimmed for a while in the July edition.
And, on another point, the Astronomican is getting weaker, maccarage is only just able to see it now. Soon the Eastern fringe will be lost to mankind, then the North, south and west if it continues. Cheerful stuff isn't it?
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Post by: 1hadhq
 Maybe the emperor leaves the physical realm, but stays in spiritual existence.
He can lead and help those in need unbound of time and space then?
Gw cannot take the emperor out of 40k.To bad for any marine:
loyal marine: "for the emp...." oh,sorry
traitor marine: "death to the false emp..." grrr
You see? Too much work to reprint everything.
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Post by: Invisdable
Storm Lord wrote:Firstly: The Thorian theory of ressurecting the Emperor through the Illuminate and Sensei (sp?) people is only a theory, there is no gaurentee it'll work, and with most of the Inquisition against it, believing it to be heretical and therfor killing anyone involved or who mentions it, there is a good chance it will never happen, even if GW were willing to go into the future and wipe a few races out. besides, they wouldn't be able to get to the Imperial Palace and the Emperor without being shot out of Space and killing the Custodes, then if they Emp does come back he'll give them a butt whupping for killing his legion type marines.
Oh ye of little faith...
Storm Lord wrote:Lastly: Should the Emp get up from the golden throne in any way there will be problems. firstly, the ruptured webway portal behind it will spill daemons into the heart of Terra, and overwhelm the newly awakened Emp killing him. (see above for consequences) Secondly the Astornomican, which uses the Emp for focusing their beacon will go out, not being able to use him out of the throne. This will make Interplanetary travel hard and slow, and any ships in the warp stuck there forever. WD mentions what happened once when it dimmed for a while in the July edition.
I'm actually curious about exactly how important the Imperial-Lighthouse function is. There was quite a bit of space travel prior to the Emperor turning into a couch potato, so it would seem like there would be someway to traverse the warp sans Imperial flashlight. In addition, if there is a way, I imagine the Emperor either already knows it or be able to figure it out quite quickly.
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Post by: Space_hoppo
Maybe without the Emperor they will be no jucy worm of a person for the Warp Daemons to eat and they will go away. It is possible to ride in the warp, look at the Chaos they use it just fine. And the CSM cry for be.
"I hope the golden throne is silver now."
Muahahahaha!
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Post by: 1hadhq
Space_hoppo wrote:
"I hope the golden throne is silver now."
Muahahahaha!
Color of his throne matters not. It can be wood or crap if its only working.
More of interest is the time gw has chosen: 32.000-42.000 ? any guess?
oh, muahahahahaha! i'll say,isn't it.
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Post by: Space_hoppo
The new Rulebook in set in the year 40,999. And the Emperor is dying but why he is dying so quiockly now after being there for so long is beyond me.
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Post by: 1hadhq
They really set time at 40.999? I thought were on 41.999. :S
Some mechs misinterpreted emperor is changing with emperor is dying on those medicae screen.
They do not understand normal repairs,praying and oil and salve and rituals to the machine god hold em busy.
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Post by: Space_hoppo
That would make it Warhammer 41k. they are Mechs though, they arnt axactly super smart.
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Post by: Storm Lord
No it should be 40.999, Milleniums are always one ahead of the year thing, ie year 2000 is the 21st century.
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Post by: Space_hoppo
I can believe that. I don't think so it's a floating timeline it will never make it to the 41's M.
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Post by: 1hadhq
GW got to 40.999 at armageddon.now were to stay in
40.000 forever?
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Post by: Storm Lord
Actually I remember reading somewhere, I think it was on Lexicanum.com (or correct spelling version) about some events that did happen in 41k century. Can't remember what they were but I'll check and post back
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Post by: Storm Lord
Found it, don't know how acurate it is though:
005.M42 To serve the Emperor: A Commissar's Life, written by Commissar Ciaphas Cain is published. The writing of his memoirs spurred him to gather and write a full archive of his glorious career. However the book never sees the light of day, being immediately put under Inquisitorial seal by order of Inquisitor Amberley Vail. His book, and especially the archive, simply contains far too much sensitive and restricted information. She organizes the archive, naming it the Cain Archive, and publishes it 'for Inquisitors' only. A high number of Inquisitors read it. She is even persuaded to expand it considerably, making it somewhat of a bestseller among the Inquisition. (Source) "For The Emperor by Sandy Mitchell page 8"
006.M42 The fall of Medusa V occurs. The world was mostly evacuated by the Imperum whilst a warp storm engulphed it.
So, looks like the future is written about
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Post by: Space_hoppo
Thats odd i read in the new rule book on how the year is 40,999.
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Post by: Storm Lord
true, but 'lex' isn't GW made, merely fan based. Besides the Future has to be expanded into one day, they'll run out of time to set stuff in soon, once they've used up the 41st Millenium. Then they have to go forwards.
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Post by: Space_hoppo
Yeah, i did see a misprint in the Tyranid codex, it talks about the Battle of Ichar IV, 10 years before it happened.
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Post by: Storm Lord
Sometimes these things happen, through no fault of one person, but bad communication in the design studio and with gamers/book readers. What one person reads is varying from another, so two dates get put across. As for medusa V, which I posted, I'm sure it was near the end of of the 'current' era if I read the booklet on it right. granted that was ages back so I may be wrong. Which proves that people beleive things to happen at different times due to misinterpretation or GW mistakes
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Post by: Space_hoppo
It's on a floating timeline, similar to James Bond movies (in Casino Royal, set before Doctor No yet he has a new car and in No its old....) So eventually it will start to head into the 41'st Millenia and it will still be good old 40k.
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Post by: 1hadhq
Some trolls screwed the 40k timeline?
striding from early 40 to 42 at your wish?
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Post by: Space_hoppo
Not at my wish, at the wish of the writers.
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Post by: 1hadhq
This time trick (40 or 41 or 42k) will make the rulebook an interesting read.I don't get why gw must have a timetable
with a present already shown.They had the option to use 5000 years or even 7000 for campaigns and events,but decided
to work on 41k. :S
 =  or  for ?
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Post by: Space_hoppo
I'm not sure about the time line, all the good things take thousands of years, like the age of strife and fall of the Eldar. It's the name i guess it wouldnt be warhammer 40k if it was set in the year 42.768
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Post by: 1hadhq
I really need this book to look for myself.All this quotes with a date 41.999 got me to think about WH42k.
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Post by: Space_hoppo
Or 40K II
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Post by: 1hadhq
kid 1: " I play 4th ed wh 40k."
kid 2: "just got 5th ed."
kid 1: "you play wh40k II ?"
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Post by: Space_hoppo
It could be done he'll be like yeah, my SM each have plasma guns that dont overheat, isnt that cool! And kid one would cry.
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Post by: 1hadhq
Ad Mech found the "cool-down" switch finally
Ok,refer to wh 5th ed 40k as 40k2 as you please.
But don't cry if anyone got his 40k2 copy first.
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Post by: Nofasse 'Eadhunta
They gonn' get it. Imperium: D00MED
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Post by: Aeddon
Throughout history every empire, no matter how great, has fallen. I don't see why the Imperium would be any different. Now, whether or not that spell the end for mankind is a seperate debate.
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Post by: Storm Lord
it might be a different debate but it seems to get merged in here an awfullot! And like the Ad mech can find the cool down switch, they knew how to make decent stuff back in the Age of technology-but its superstition that holds them back. if they ever were to find the Cool down switch again it would only be after splitting from the Imperium so they can do what they please without the Inquisition looking over their shoulder all the time and being branded heretics. When all they're doing is their job!
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Post by: Space_hoppo
It's beside the trigger, also know as the SAFETY SWITCH. It's just no one knows how it would cool down, but the grill on the side opens up and the air comes out.
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Post by: 1hadhq
Correct me,if I'm wrong,but those "golden Throne" was build at Plans made by the emperor.
It was never meant as emergency-survival-device or such.More a control unit to steer a
lot of nice Features.The process to hold the emperors life is a secondary function.
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Post by: Storm Lord
That is correct, but the fact is its now broken, so the life support, astronomican aimer and other nice features are slowly going to stop working. Only the Ad Mech can maintain it, having helped to build it or so I'm led to beleive, but they can't do what they need to do for some reason or another
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Post by: 1hadhq
Wheres stated the throne is broken?
What I've read is malfunction.This is not classified as minor,major or severe,its unknown.
Unknown tells me only: those maintaining it cannot diag whats wrong.
They should call a technican,not a priest of the machine-cult.
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Post by: Space_hoppo
Maybe it has a faulty fuse...
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Post by: 1hadhq
Space_hoppo wrote:Maybe it has a faulty fuse...
Then let me try,i'll fix it.
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Post by: Space_hoppo
I don't think they would let you into the golden throne, kinda a members only club. If you hid in a fruit box then you could get in...
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Post by: Space_hoppo
Then go for it dude! Save the Imperium, for at least the next 10 millenia...
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Post by: 1hadhq
We got 1o millenia to 6th ED ?
wow
Too bad if you hate 5th Ed. then.
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Post by: Storm Lord
lets look at it this way, if the Ad mech can't fix it then it's going to be pretty serious-not just a 'oh no the arm rest is chipped', and knowing our luck 6th ed will be even worse
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Post by: 1hadhq
this socalled AD mech just dont find the plans. stated is:"they cannot repair it with their tech.knowledge",
says it is repairable but they forgot how!
When GW had at 6. th ed to decide who wins, it will end with no decision. To lose no customer they bring in a new galaxy
to conquer and everything is fine. :S
Another one for you: WD july 08 page 32= They know, as we do, that every mortal Life will be extinct by NIGHT.
We know ,better than they, there is a new dawn and a new day when we rise again and drive em back into darkness.
not but  and  for the new day!
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Post by: kirsanth
The mind boggles. . .
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Post by: mattyboy22
Whenever they decide to end 40K, the Emperor will just wake up, roll over and look at Horus, and say "Dear, I just had the strangest dream..."
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Post by: Space_hoppo
Albeit strange but could happen.
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Post by: Storm Lord
I sverely hope it doesn't, sleeping with your son! Ewww!!! besides, then there will still be the task of the great crusade in their perent having woken up state.
GW could realease legion box sets instead of company ones... now thats a though
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Post by: 1hadhq
Storm Lord wrote:I severely hope it doesn't, sleeping with your son! Ewww!!! besides, then there will still be the task of the great crusade in their perent having woken up state.
GW could realease legion box sets instead of company ones... now thats a though
Buy 1000 marines and get 5 tanks for free? Paint rising from 12ml to 1,2 L ?
Need a second job if that happens.... :S
.. and more time to glue and paint ...
Oh , .
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Post by: Space_hoppo
GW will just make the day longer, 48 hours instead of 24.
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Post by: 1hadhq
Space_hoppo wrote:GW will just make the day longer, 48 hours instead of 24.
They can?
48 hours and 40 hours daylight to spend with 40k?
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Post by: Space_hoppo
Yes, dont forget they have the power of the inquistation behind them. they can do anything.
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Post by: 1hadhq
Space_hoppo wrote:Yes, dont forget they have the power of the inquistation behind them. they can do anything.
Everyone has the power of the inquisition behind em (yes they look at YOU right now, he he ).
They (inquisition) can do anything.( to unwary customers believing their beloved dex gets support from GW )
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Post by: Space_hoppo
Anyone who finds out the truth about the big I pullign the strings at GW mysteriously dies.... *Contact lost with Space_hoppo*
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Post by: 1hadhq
Space_hoppo wrote:Anyone who finds out the truth about the big I pullign the strings at GW mysteriously dies.... *Contact lost with Space_hoppo*
Will Space_Hoppo ever return?
Maybe they brainwash him and he is forever a happy Ultramarines player and reads only LotR articles at WD.
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Post by: Storm Lord
Oh he'll return, to seek out more unbeleivers and burn them via the interent. Eventually Dakka will be the Big I2!
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Post by: 1hadhq
Storm Lord wrote:Oh he'll return, to seek out more unbeleivers and burn them via the interent. Eventually Dakka will be the Big I2!
Dakka is [b]big I 2 !
Its burn the heretic not burn the unbeliever
but i think its never wrong to burn something just to be sure its dead.
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Post by: Space_hoppo
I have returned, however I have a strange taste for the Ultramarines... Anyway i think it is just a phase. And if you think it's dead poke it with a stick, however seeing as the internet will not allow me to use sticks to poke people in the left eyeball, I'll just turn off ur firewall and let the powers of Chaos flow into your life. There will be no escape.
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Post by: 1hadhq
@ space_hoppo: go ultra
Your chaos powers won't surpass my anti-psi-shield.
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Post by: Space_hoppo
Thats what I want you to think. But really youer PSI shield is actually powered by my Chaos Powers...
Ultra marines make good meat shields, as no one cares weither they live or die.
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Post by: Storm Lord
very true, i'd like to see the Imperial Monkey's utilise that tactic when fighting along side the Ultramarines...
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Post by: 1hadhq
Storm Lord wrote:very true, i'd like to see the Imperial Monkey's utilise that tactic when fighting along side the Ultramarines...
Thats easy. Just get the ultras to believe they can be an example and you follow them.
Then wait until the bluemarines get smashed and shoot the cheering enemy to pieces.
Ordnance FTW!
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Post by: Space_hoppo
Sounds liek it may work, now we need to find a UM noob...
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Post by: 1hadhq
Space_hoppo wrote:Sounds like it may work, now we need to find a UM noob...
Don't tell him hes a noob,just enforce his believe in the ultras ! Many inexperienced players will take the chapter thats easy to paint and decorate, end up with blues then. When hes done the job (1,2,3x ...) enlighten him and steal the smurfs a player. no good idea to turn everybody to your army. Playstyle should always fit the dex (not to forget the looks).
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Post by: Storm Lord
Surely Black templars are the easiest to do, just spray black and the jobs basically done... besides i don't think given the choice Noobs would always choose Ultrapansies, its just GW staff head/advise/bully them towards the boys in blue.
But anyways, in the End it will be the Ultras who wreck the Imperium, in much the same way after ther heresy they forced everyone to do as they did, anyone who they find doesn't will be attacked in the 'modernImperium' and plunge it once again into civil war, ah the irony of the loyalist of the loyals causing the end of humankind. Yay!
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Post by: 1hadhq
First act of ultramarines supreme rule: traits are gone = every marine is codex astartes compliant! or illegal in 40k
Second act of ultramarines supreme rule: only blueish colors available from GW and sanctioned by BGB!
Third act of ultramarines supreme rule: "counts as" for dex-choices, NO not counts as my DIY ...,counts as ultramarine
Forth act of ultramarines supreme rule: you won't have me saying more about UM,never
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Post by: Space_hoppo
There is no hope. May the Imperium R.I.P
Unless of course you have space wolves! Go cheap Terminator Armour!
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Post by: Storm Lord
That'll probably be readressed in the new codex when it comes out. As should the giving Space wolves scout sergeants terminator armour and infiltrating...
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Post by: 1hadhq
Storm Lord wrote:That'll probably be readressed in the new codex when it comes out. As should they giving Space wolves scout sergeants terminator armour and infiltrating...
Maybe the SW get that.... for a month,then it gets Faq/errata to redo the scouts.
Think of wolfsscouts ( full veteran battlebrothers) using the new Landspeeder transport.
Fenris FTW ,Macragge
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Post by: Space_hoppo
Macragge sucks, Fenris is cool, i mean to can leave the atmosphere but climbing up the only hill on the planet, where as Macragge simply smells pretty.
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Post by: Storm Lord
1hadhq wrote:Storm Lord wrote:That'll probably be readressed in the new codex when it comes out. As should they giving Space wolves scout sergeants terminator armour and infiltrating...
Maybe the SW get that.... for a month,then it gets Faq/errata to redo the scouts.
Think of wolfsscouts ( full veteran battlebrothers) using the new Landspeeder transport.
Fenris FTW ,Macragge
The problem is they can currently take Terminator Scout leaders, and though it has already been FAQ'ed because not everyone has access to them they can still be taken. I just love the idea of terminator armour quietly sneaking up on someone. Thats why it needs re-adressing in the codex. FAQ's don't always fix things
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Post by: 1hadhq
Storm Lord wrote:1hadhq wrote:Storm Lord wrote:That'll probably be readressed in the new codex when it comes out. As should they giving Space wolves scout sergeants terminator armour and infiltrating...
Maybe the SW get that.... for a month,then it gets Faq/errata to redo the scouts.
Think of wolfsscouts ( full veteran battlebrothers) using the new Landspeeder transport.
The problem is they can currently take Terminator Scout leaders, and though it has already been FAQ'ed because not everyone has access to them they can still be taken. I just love the idea of terminator armour quietly sneaking up on someone. Thats why it needs re-adressing in the codex. FAQ's don't always fix things
Terminatorarmor is said to be slow and cumbersome,but that doesn't make a decision against infiltrating.
The noise you'll produce when moving could be worse with bionics,not termie/power armor.
Wolfsscouts are full fledged marines and as others have a vetsgt, SW take a wolfguard.
Without anyting whats in the new SW dex,the coming SM dex will cast a way to the future design.
If you want it readdressed = Ok .
Thinking of the possible changes to vets i'm sure the HQ-section get changed too.
When SM are redone,the SW could be a totally new army (jumping from 3rd to 5th) !
6397
Post by: Dessel Ordo
When emporer comes back, 1st thing he does is kill off Eclesiarchy, hes an uber-atheist, and wouldnt stand being worshipped for much more then 30 sec. When ][ tries to persecute him as "false" or heretical or whatever, their heads explode, end of problem. Along with Emp's return, primarchs return... remaining loyalist legions all go "daddy" and returned primarchs turn to Guiliman and say "screw you, we're gonna have legions again" and follow through by finding all their grand-kids, great-grandkids ect, and pull them back into their legions, GK get to find out who their daddy is, and with the suppressive laws of the imperium gone, SM can reproduce both by gene-seed and naturally (c'mon, what do you think the Sisters of Battle were really founded for?) of course ggody-two-shoes UltraPansies dont get any, cuz they seem "off" to the SoB, and arent as rackish and daring as other legions... this drives Ultras to Chaos, but so many CSM hate Ultras, including the fickle 4, that they get killed (guilliman included) and never cause problems again. While all this is going onn, Emp connects the breaker for the GT's auto-pilot switch, shows Mechanicus where the GT's fuse box is, reminds them to make sure they plug in the recharger once every 25k years or so, and switches the GT back to "high" (one of the custodians accidentally bumped the mode selector switch when he was polishing the throne after a particullarly long day). Once all this is done Emp leads a new Great Crusade, and the Imperium wins.
Alternatively, Emp's alarm clock was reset to "12: 00" "12: 00" "12: 00" "12: 00" "12: 00" when the Imp. Light-house dimmed, so he doesnt wake up, fix the golde recliner, bring all his kids back, and bring forth the glorius fury of the imperium. Leaving the Imperium screwed and doomed...
unfortuanately, no 1 race in the 40k galaxy can survive with even 1 missing, it is a violent symbiotic galaxy...
without mankind Chaos gods loose their greatest source of emotions and their power slowly fades away...
without the "great enemy" to fight, eldar stop caring, so they languish more, and without the urgency needed to pump out baby guardians and aspect warriors, female Eldar get more and more headaches, therefore already abysmal eldar reproduction rate goes even lower, causing eldar to go away...
bereft of the bulk of souls to munch on, crons never bother to wake up again...
Tau have explosive growth, hit true orky space, the two beat the crap out of each other, then run out (to many spores burnt, not enough fishy-nooky going on to keep up the tau war machine)...
DE get all crushticated in the middle of the massive battles between Orks and Tau...
'Nids just leave because there is no more food...
And in the grim dark future of the 48th millenium, ther is nothing.
Or the blodthrusters get added to the 2nd Chaos Daemons dex and daemons rule supreme as none can withstand the wrathe of the bloodthrusters (being a relentless jump infantry with a stat line of 8ws/bs, i8, s8, t7, a4 and the Imperial ice cream gun (at heavy 6, not heavy 2 of course))
So you guys dont really want the Imperium, or any other race to fall as any races demise would start the snowball effect leading to nothingness i mentioned, the order may change, but if one goes and is never replace, all the rest go to.
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Post by: Gangsta_Tau
Foolish humans, if they could just follow the Greater good :(
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Post by: 1hadhq
Gangsta_Tau wrote:Foolish humans, if they could just follow the Greater good :(
Sorry,not foolishness,just no reason to be citizen 2nd class if you can rule the galaxy.
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Post by: Bob the Hobo
Gah, can't get picture to work, but here's the link: http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Image:Wargaming_Humour_61 I think it's most appropiate.
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Post by: Gangsta_Tau
SUCH INSOLENCE!!! THE GREATER GOOD ONLY HAS SO MUCH PAITENTS!!!
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Post by: Storm Lord
So what if they have no patience? Give them a chill pill and alls good again!
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Post by: Gangsta_Tau
^That does it!!!!!
*bends you over and lubes up the pulse rifle*
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Post by: Storm Lord
erm, owww?
*Morphs into the Nightbringer and glares down at you*
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Post by: Dessel Ordo
*uses twin linked laser pointer to interfere with gangsta_tau's buddies marklight*
hahaha! now you dont have a snowballs chance in hell of hitting and or hurting me (my forest is the ultimate defence)
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Post by: Gangsta_Tau
*hammerhead blows it's load all over the war walker so it can't fire it's throbbing twin linked lasers*
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Post by: Storm Lord
Have we just started soem form of war here on dakka that doesn't really have anything to do with the tactics of little plastic men?
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Post by: Gangsta_Tau
Too late to back out now [ see forum posting rules]!!!!
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Post by: 1hadhq
you got the Chance to live ,but refuse?
*requests Power direction to movement activators*
*Starts running with his Hunter Titan *
* Kicks Tau Tank away*
*does the happy dance because he scores a field goal*
You just asked for it.
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Post by: Gangsta_Tau
*The shas'O calls down crisis suit penetration team via positional relay*
*The crisis team arrives on site via deep thrust*
*THe crisis team surrounds your Titan*
*The crisis multiple pentrates every availiable orifice on the Titan*
*The crisis team shoot their loads out the swollen fusion blaster tanks*
*The Hunter Titan explodes like a giant cream pie*
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Post by: 1hadhq
Gangsta_Tau wrote:*The shas'O calls down crisis suit penetration team via positional relay*
*The crisis team arrives on site via deep thrust*
*THe crisis team surrounds your Titan*
*The crisis multiple pentrates every availiable orifice on the Titan*
*The crisis team shoot their loads out the swollen fusion blaster tanks*
*The Hunter Titan explodes like a giant cream pie*
*shas'o didn't see that this is a technical malfunction of his suits sensors,because he REALLY blasted of a cream pie and not a titan*
*titan princeps first at the tau's puny try to do anything against his deflectors,then turns to stomp on little crisis-flies*
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Post by: Marik Law
1hadhq wrote:Reality: the imperium can not fall because its too integrated in the game.
fluff: when those last battle came,its said the primarchs will lead again.
IMHO the emperor is then on their side (physical or any other way).Nothing can hope to win against a united imperium
End is : a galaxy to become a black hole.
I think were missing the point of the wording "fall". To fall doesn't always mean that a faction will disappear out of the galaxy. The Eldar "fell" yet they're still alive and kicking as a military strength in the galaxy. I seriously doubt that if a chunk of the Imperium falls away that the Space Marines are just going to up and stop fighting.
In my opinion I think the Imperium is heading for something bad, something akin to a new Dark Age or some other travesty. I think the High Lords have become corrupt by their own powertrip, hence why they keep the Emperor barely alive (so that he can't resurrect (if he resurrects at all) and so they can use the Emperor as a mere tool of their control).
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Post by: Storm Lord
You acn't exactly say the Eldar are a military stength per say, they are on the edge of extinction-and only fight if they really have to.
As for the Space Marines, if the Imperium as a body fell there is a good Cahnce that the oringinal 2nd Founding chapters would recreate the Great Crusade to unite humanity-albeit more slowly and place humanity under Space Marine rule-until they fall out about which Chapter is Ultimately in command of all the others. Most likely this will boil down to Ultramarines vs Dark Angels vs Space Wolves, which will destroy the Imperium all over again, and make the Traitor legions feel very stupid they never succeeded in doing it first
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Post by: 1hadhq
Storm Lord wrote:
As for the Space Marines, if the Imperium as a body fell there is a good Chance that the original 2nd Founding chapters would recreate the Great Crusade to unite humanity-albeit more slowly and place humanity under Space Marine rule-until they fall out about which Chapter is Ultimately in command of all the others. Most likely this will boil down to Ultramarines vs Dark Angels vs Space Wolves vs
Blood Angels vs Black Templars which will destroy the Imperium all over again
This danger was real after heresy,before 2nd founding.If the space marines regroup as Legions,there may be not much left if they fight
for supremacy.
and make the Traitor legions feel very stupid they never succeeded in doing it first
Thats why so much ranting comes from the traitor Legions,they always think someone cheated them.
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Post by: Gangsta_Tau
I can't use quote function ihadhq :( so here is my reply!!!
*The shas O gets angry!!!*
*He fires up his jet pack and flies toward the Titan cockpit like a fat load*
*rams through the cockpit screen with his turgid plasma rifle like a throbbin rocket*
*crashes into the control room, squishing two imperial guards in the process*
*shoves his plasma rifle up the butt of two guardsman and fires, shoves it into the mouth into another guardsman and fires, clears the bridge*
pwned!
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Post by: Marik Law
Storm Lord wrote:You acn't exactly say the Eldar are a military stength per say, they are on the edge of extinction-and only fight if they really have to.
As for the Space Marines, if the Imperium as a body fell there is a good Cahnce that the oringinal 2nd Founding chapters would recreate the Great Crusade to unite humanity-albeit more slowly and place humanity under Space Marine rule-until they fall out about which Chapter is Ultimately in command of all the others. Most likely this will boil down to Ultramarines vs Dark Angels vs Space Wolves, which will destroy the Imperium all over again, and make the Traitor legions feel very stupid they never succeeded in doing it first
Extinct "on a galactic scale." What I meant to say was that the Eldar have enough military power/strength to actually make a difference in large-scale events (such as the 13th Black Crusade). There are five Major Craftworlds and a dozen or two Minor Craftworlds, not to mention Eldar pirates, Harlequins, primal Eldar (forget exactly what they're called), and an entire planet of unknown size full of Dark Eldar. They may not have the mind-boggling numbers that the Imperium, Orks, or Nids have, but they make up for it in their skills, technology, and powerful psykers.
If the Imperium does fall there are enough human and human military forces to ensure that something arises out of the ashes, they may just lose a big of ground on the galactic playing field and may not be the dominant power in the galaxy after it.
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Post by: 1hadhq
Gangsta_Tau wrote:I can't use quote function ihadhq :( so here is my reply!!!
You should use the button in the right upper corner first => "quote"
I don't believe that I am unquotable
In the reply-window you also get a quote-button.
*The shas O gets angry!!!*
no discipline,these Tau officers
*He fires up his jet pack and flies toward the Titan cockpit like a fat load*
he really "flies" like a fat barrel with his 6" movement.
*rams through the cockpit screen with his turgid plasma rifle like a throbbin rocket*
*ruins his weapon at the crash into armorplating,gets some complaints from his earth-caste techys for that*
*crashes into the control room, squishing two imperial guards in the process*
*shoves his plasma rifle up the butt of two guardsman and fires, shoves it into the mouth into another guardsman and fires, clears the bridge*
Titans are NOT crewed by guardsmen.The adeptus titanicus is a seperate organization,backed up by the mechanicum.
Who said I have 5 men on the bridge
You really insist on a virtual thread battle?
Even if you don't know your opponents unit?
1) I used a scratchbuild model with my selfscribed datasheet.
2) Bad for you,but I thought we only have some fun and go back on topic then.
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Post by: 1hadhq
Marik Law wrote:
If the Imperium does fall there are enough human and human military forces to ensure that something arises out of the ashes, they may just lose a bit of ground on the galactic playing field and may not be the dominant power in the galaxy after it.
If the Imperium as uniting factor gets shattered,the civil war for power will just kill humanity.
No existing human force is strong enough to fight against the galaxy-wide threats alone.They really need each other.
Crush the Imperium = take SM + IG + Inq out of 40k as playable forces.Replace with some mercenaries or pirates.
Nothing will arise if a race has to rebuild so often as the humans did.
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Post by: Gangsta_Tau
1hadhq, when i use the quote button the screens opens with errors.
So I is redeemed!!!
Anyway, the angry rapist Shas O is so awsome he disregards what arsenal you have!!!
But yeah, lets just say you lost and end the battle now
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Post by: 1hadhq
Gangsta_Tau wrote:1hadhq, when i use the quote button the screens opens with errors.
So I is redeemed!!!
Anyway, the angry rapist Shas O is so awsome he disregards what arsenal you have!!!
But yeah, lets just say you lost and end the battle now
A awsome ignorant Shas O won't win,he just returns to the rank of shas ui
Remember,the never loses,we just regroup to repair and refuel
Errors should be reported to admins
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Post by: Gangsta_Tau
It only happens on the work pcs for some reason :S
Anyway! Silly imperials! The ethreals will make yous bend over yet!
6656
Post by: Storm Lord
1hadhq wrote:
If the Imperium as uniting factor gets shattered,the civil war for power will just kill humanity.
No existing human force is strong enough to fight against the galaxy-wide threats alone.They really need each other.
Crush the Imperium = take SM + IG + Inq out of 40k as playable forces.Replace with some mercenaries or pirates.
Nothing will arise if a race has to rebuild so often as the humans did.
However if Humanity does loose a lot of land area it might well mean not all the races could get to them, if the eastern Fringe dies the Tau no longer have borders with the Imperium. if Cadia and the surrounding area dies, the Traitor Legions have to fight the Eldar and orks nearby to get to Terra. Collapse could benefit Humanity more than anything, all they need is one new strong leader to restart things from Terra, or similar planet capable of supporting a new empire and humanity can re-expand but this time do it right, with the Space Marines leading the way, but without primarchs to corrupt them and start civil war. The inquistition (or new version of) follows in their wake, destroying all taint on 'enlightened' worlds to prevent uprisings and keep an eye on the Space marines. The Imperial Guard can be used as large building teams, repairing planets and providing garrison troops incase they are needed to defend the new Human Frontiers.
from the Ashes humanity is reborn but without the carrion Emperor, unless they keep his body in a freezer as a momento of days passed.
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Post by: 1hadhq
Storm Lord wrote:
However if Humanity does loose a lot of land area it might well mean not all the races could get to them, if the eastern Fringe dies the Tau no longer have borders with the Imperium. if Cadia and the surrounding area dies, the Traitor Legions have to fight the Eldar and orks nearby to get to Terra.
Most imperiums fall really fast when their time comes and their downfall is (in terran history) unstoppable.
Collapse could benefit Humanity more than anything, all they need is one new strong leader to restart things from Terra, or similar planet capable of supporting a new empire and humanity can re-expand but this time do it right, with the Space Marines leading the way, but without primarchs to corrupt them and start civil war.
The important point is: new strong leader somebody I have not seen yet and the existing organizations might take a
vacant throne as invitation to usurp themselves to power.
The inquistition (or new version of) follows in their wake, destroying all taint on 'enlightened' worlds to prevent uprisings and keep an eye on the Space marines. The Imperial Guard can be used as large building teams, repairing planets and providing garrison troops incase they are needed to defend the new Human Frontiers.
If you find a leader to hold control over Space Marines+Space Fleet+ Imperial Guard+Mechanicum this may be.
from the Ashes humanity is reborn but without the carrion Emperor, unless they keep his body in a freezer as a momento of days passed.
No my emporer won't end up as icy mummy
A renewed humanity will regain lost tech and keep him in a stasis-field.
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Post by: Storm Lord
And by gaining new tech they can regain all that they lost during the age of strife-weapons of fearsome power that the Emperor banned can once again be used to further the interests of mankind.
As for needing a new leader, surely on of the 'Illuminate' (the daemon possesion freed people) would make an ideal candidate, knowing of the threats of Warp Space and would be able to deal with it accordingly. They even have Space Marines within thier numbers, making tham an even more viable force to take the reigns of humanity
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Post by: 1hadhq
Storm Lord wrote:And by gaining new tech they can regain all that they lost during the age of strife-weapons of fearsome power that the Emperor banned can once again be used to further the interests of mankind.
I would be almost happy if humanity regains a full STC
But some pre-age-of-Strife tech is so awesome,so wishable,that current tech looked like stone-age-tools in comparison.
The STC is low colony-survival tech , even a partly regain of what was lost could save mankind.
As for needing a new leader, surely on of the 'Illuminate' (the daemon possesion freed people) would make an ideal candidate, knowing of the threats of Warp Space and would be able to deal with it accordingly. They even have Space Marines within thier numbers, making tham an even more viable force to take the reigns of humanity
Former demon possesed may be possesed again or is there a rule to have only one possesion per lifetime ?
Could you explain who is this "illuminate" ? A group ? Heretics I should purge?
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Post by: Storm Lord
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Illuminati
The Illuminati are a secret society - existing beyond even the Emperor's knowledge, but manipulating and interpreting the Imperial Will to bring about their objectives. Its members all share the same experience: they have been possessed by Daemons and then, either through the force of their own will or through outside assistance, have freed themselves. Sharing a mind with a daemon they have gained the most intimate understanding of Chaos. Having mastered the Chaos within themselves, they are immune to its temptations and corruption. They then fight Chaos in the broader universe and, as they share a common enemy, are frequently involved on some level with the Eldar, in particular the Harlequins. The Illuminati are some of very few allowed access to the Eldar's Black Library of Chaos. They know of the Fall of the Eldar, and seek to prevent the same from happening to Man.
The Illuminati are plotting to have the Emperor of Mankind reborn. They realize the Emperor is failing and cannot survive in his current state of living death forever. They plan to rejuvenate the Emperor by sacrificing his descendants, the Sensei, at the moment the Emperor's will finally fails. The Emperor will be reborn, as the Sensei-Emperor, to again lead humanity directly. Their plans are a carefully kept secret; should the Emperor learn their plan, he may see no reason to continue to endure, and allow himself to die prematurely. Should the Sensei learn they may be unwilling to meet their intended fate.
The Illuminati influence events to pave the way for the Emperor's rebirth, and gather together the Sensei, protecting them from the persecution of the Inquisition.
Certain factions of the Inquisition know of and strongly oppose the Illuminati, fearing the Illuminati's plans are influenced by Chaos. They have been known to destroy cells of the Illuminati on several occasions. The Illuminati themselves are engaged in a campaign of disinformation and confusion against these factions of the Inquisition, in order to protect the Sensei.
Many Illuminati are also Inquisitors, which gives the brotherhood much more power and influence. One of the more proactive ways the brotherhood gains members is by illuminating others, subjecting the most promising individuals to daemonic possession and then freeing them.
It has been claimed that the entire Adeptus Custodes are Sensei under Illuminati control, but this has not been verified and is highly unlikely.
Hope that answers your questions. So you can see they would be perfect to lead humanity, even if the Emperor fully died, they'd just not have to worry about the Star Child Theory anymore. Their knowledge of Chaos and the Daemons it uses would make it harder for the Chaos Gods to get a grip on humanity-hopefully allowing it to grow free of corruption and heresy. And with their knowledge of the Black library they might well know of Humanities past failings and those of other races and be able to prevent history from repeating itself- or even froge an alliance with the Eldar, to the mutual benefit of both races.
The entire Space Marine chapter the Exorcists have been possessed by daemons and freed, and can therefore be said to be "Illuminated", but they have no connection to the Illuminati brotherhood.
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Post by: 1hadhq
Yes this answers the question,thanks.
Is old fluff (1st or 2nd edition) today usable?
A company (GW) could change or drop something in newer editions and I'venever heard from"starchild"or"Illuminati" in 3rd,4th or 5th ed.
Maybe the actual fluff replaces the old fluff like rulebooks does it with rules?
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Post by: Storm Lord
I think this was fluff either from an old edition that has never been replaced, and so is still valid. Or was mentioned in some sorce book soemwhere along the lines, maybe one of the Inquisitor books (the none 40k codex ones) and the old Realms of Chaos book (whatever the 40k one was called) regardless of this-whilst it isn't the best known of fluff is still considered valid and the rare person has attempted to make an army from the fluff.
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Post by: Gazzdag
Humanity has always been screwed.
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Post by: ixlar
The Imperium will continue on in some form. Don't forget that humans are very adaptable. You'll never get rid of the humans, not all together. Plus, we really like to breed, so the numbers will always grow. But I do see the Imperium taking a few more major hits.
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