A mate sent me these details that he'd got from a forum on 40kTerra? Don't know how reliable they are, but if they are, that's some interesting stuff to come out.

IG will be getting some form of jeep that will be a fast attack and lightly armed and armoured.

IG will be getting an open topped troop transport similar to an Ork Trukk

Heavy Stubber will now be an option for a Heavy Weapons Team coming in at 5pts.

Sentinels will be getting redone.

Guardsmen on bike will be reintroduced.

Chimera will be an available upgrade for any squad of infantry numbering 12 or less similar to the Ork squad upgrade.

Valhallans will be made available in plastic as will Death Korps of Krieg....


Sorry to ruin the happy feelings, but the Guard will also probably be losing their Doctrines....

grrr, just started my first sentinal, guess I'll hold off getting anymore.

I'd have thought a heavy stubebr would more likly come under specialist weapon squads myself.

Not that bothered about doctrines.

Jeep - has been suggested for years, has someone listened for once? open topped transport - maybe with the 5th concentrating on troops - static gunlines wont be as useful.

bikes - hmmm starting to seem like a lot of codex choices, will something get dropped to make room?

My incliniation is disbeleive, it sounds too much like my IG wish list to be true.

Plus thats 2-3 new plastic kits in addition to the others already rumored like storm troops and valkyries.

I hope, hope, hope it's true but disbelieve.

Well it sounds cool, not too sure about some of them though.

@ Kid_Kyoto - I thought that the plastic ST and valkyrie were going to be for Planetfall? If they are it opens up the possibility for these two new kits. Also, the two new ones might be one and the same, they sound similar.

well new guard codex is likely what, spring 2009? planetfall meant to be for the summer campaign ish time.. so rplastic valk and stormtroopers for about the same works...kinda

If there is an open topped vehicle, please let Ogryns fit in it. Please, oh, please. I'll buy at least two, and then buy another box of Ogre Bulls, I swear.

That really does sound too good to be true. More Salt please.

OH holy emporer I'm hoping this is true, not so much sentinals being redone, or this jeep thing, but plastic valhallans and dkok yeah baby!! i spose the only thing we can do is wait......

LL

One would hope the bikes are updated Rough Riders, and the only truly unlikely bit to this is plastic Death Korps of Krieg. They are very recent and a cash cow for Forgeworld.

Here's hoping for more info before I buy a bunch of the new scout bikes for Rough Riders. Real IG bikes would work better.

I believe Phil Kelly or JJ have already debunked the plastic trenchcoat guard rumour.

Jeeps, bikes, and holey lord plastic Valhallans. Sounds to good to be true but if so the Orks may collect a bit of dust.

well I was gonna make some landspeeder jeep conversions to count as sentinels... guess I better hold off

The fast attack transport might mean a plastic Centaur.

Capt K

As much as i would love this stuff... it really does sound just to good to be true...

Through i really do have my fingers crossed for some new plastic infantry, mainly cause collecting death korp is killing my wallet

Wolfstan wrote:
Chimera will be an available upgrade for any squad of infantry numbering 12 or less similar to the Ork squad upgrade.

Variable squad size? I have trouble believing that one, though it makes sense to do away with Armored Fists, and give any Infantry unit Chimera options.

Instead of a fast attack jeep, I'd love it if they made a plastic Salamander with Overcharged Engines.

I'm not sure I believe IG would get an open-topped transport... for what reason? So they can assault? Also, I can't see them getting both a Valkyrie and another new transport to go along with the Chimera.

It does make sense to have IG Bikers though to be used like Rough Riders, and they can probably use the SM Scout Bike sprue they have just created.

It would be pretty cool for IG to have an open topped truck like the WW2 "flat bed with a hood" things they used to move troops around. Not a fighting vehicle like the Chimera, just a cheap little scooty thing. Give it AV 7-9 all around, make it a fast vehicle and price it at 15-20 points, and you might have a winner. (Points based on an assumed reduction in Chimera points cost.) It would be made of sheet aluminium, but it would get the troops somewhere quickly, which is pretty much all you need for those points.

If the DE Raider doesn't have an AV less than 10, no vehicle is going to. The IG open-topped transport, if it ever comes to pass, is going to be AV 10/10/10, probably, with the Chimera at 12/11/10.

15-20 points still sounds about right, given that Rhinos these days are 35 points.

Yeah, reads like a wishlist.

Stubber I can see appearing on a re-cut Cadian sprue that includes plastic Meltas and Plasmas.

Jeep? I dunno.

Sentinels? Of course. Re-cut sprue with Lascannon, Autocannon and Heavy Flamer along side the Multi-Laser.

Valhallans and DKoK? No. Just no. They wouldn't give us two more plastic infantry kits.

Bike Guardsmen? If they're something to replace Rough Riders, then maybe. I'd prefer new Rough Riders though.

Why would we need another transport?

BYE

FAV anyone? I know this would be too much to hope for:

"Valhallans and DKOK in plastic" means this is just a wishlist. How long has the greatcoat guard been a rumor? Seven, eight years now?

An open-topped transport for IG would be hilarious. Ork can stand to use it because they're assault troops anyway. Guard? :lol:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Yeah, reads like a wishlist.

Stubber I can see appearing on a re-cut Cadian sprue that includes plastic Meltas and Plasmas.

Jeep? I dunno.

Sentinels? Of course. Re-cut sprue with Lascannon, Autocannon and Heavy Flamer along side the Multi-Laser.

Valhallans and DKoK? No. Just no. They wouldn't give us two more plastic infantry kits.

Bike Guardsmen? If they're something to replace Rough Riders, then maybe. I'd prefer new Rough Riders though.

Why would we need another transport?

BYE

"They wouldn't give us two more plastic infantry kits." Why not? Only Cadia and Catachan is plastic,they could decide
to turn troop choice to plasitc kits and give up the older metal ones. Guard needs more than two schemes to design
its variety. With DKoK they have WW1,with Valhalla WW2,with Catachan 1960,with Cadia 1990. Four different bases
to make your own guard regiment .

I don't know why you couldn't have a vehicle with AV<10. I could see the value in an open topped guard vehicle with Fast and AV9 say. It can be torn apart by bolter fire, but lasgun would only likely stop it. The guys inside could rapid fire out at full effect, and be protected from at least one unit's shooting. Alternately they could park it and fire out, then rush to take a position or reposition.

I am not saying it is likely, just possible, and really cool the more I think of it.

All I can say is that if we get Plastic Valks, and Greatcoat guard, Im taking out a second mortgage for a 10kpt guard army!

Armour under 10 : book "chapter approved:the fourth book of the astronomican" (2003)
page 61 = ruleset for vehicle construction : armour min = 9 max = 14.
You could already field a AV 9 truck May transport 11 human-sized creatures.

I could see the Sentinel kits being re-cut to add all four weapon options, and maybe an armored crew compartment. I'd be surprised at other new vehicles, though.

Please Please Please, an IG "Warthog" with a single BS 3 Assault Cannon on top.

Durandal wrote:Please Please Please, an IG "Warthog" with a single BS 3 Assault Cannon on top.

You mean a Puma?

That would be sweet.

Wolfstan wrote:IG will be getting some form of jeep that will be a fast attack and lightly armed and armoured.

IG will be getting an open topped troop transport similar to an Ork Trukk

Heavy Stubber will now be an option for a Heavy Weapons Team coming in at 5pts.

Sentinels will be getting redone.

Guardsmen on bike will be reintroduced.

Chimera will be an available upgrade for any squad of infantry numbering 12 or less similar to the Ork squad upgrade.

Valhallans will be made available in plastic as will Death Korps of Krieg....

So, pretending these are true:

IG "Jeep" Transport? Are IG not fragile enough that they need lots of vehicles that die when you breathe on them?

Heavy Stubber option makes sense, and is probably quite playable with the new S4 Defensive Weapons change. Thankfully, I have lots of HS bitz, but now I'm worried I may "need" a lot more for Hull HS *and* PMHS..

Sentinels with a new plastic upgrade sprue with the Autocannon, Lascannon, Heavy Flamer, and Multi-Melta make sense to stop producing metal upgrade bitz. Especially if also including the Armored Cab.

Biker Guardsmen would seem kind of useless if they're not Troops or new Rough Riders - what's the point?

Chimera being generally available is obvious, but the key will be in pricing. If priced as current, they won't be playable. If priced below a BS4 Razorback, they'll be OK.

Greatcoat Guard with Valhallan and DKoK heads have been rumored for a while. Let's hope for long coats, not short ASL coats when these finally come out. But while greatcoat guard will look good compared to Cadians, they won't address the need for a Cameoline-cloaked light infantry regiment (Tanith / Tallarn). And please, let these be properly down-sized puny compared to a Marine or Ork.

I hope the "Bike Riding Rough Riders" rumor turns out to be true, though I'd love confirmation *before* buying the new Marine Scout bikers to convert into RR's.

Maybe it is a way to make DKoK Death Riders unique? Drive up some more ForgeWorld sales?

Either way, I'm all for Bike Riding RR's.

1hadhq wrote:Why not?

Simple money reasons.

Plastic moulds are expensive. Producing two lines of infantry that are the same in-game, but just look different aesthetically, would be bad business. I can see them maybe doing one generic 'long-coat' infantry style, but not two separate kits.

BYE

I would assume they'd rather recut the cadians to include all the specials and maybe one heavy before they do another line of infantry. they might even do something similar to Guardians and include the heavy weapon platform and a all the specials in a single box of ten men. I doubt it, as the IG heavies are pretty involved. I'd guess just ML or heavy stubber or something.

It would work to do a Guard Squad in a box. They'd have to re-cut the sprue to be 4 to a sprue though, so you'd get 2 infantry sprues plus the two HW sprues.

But if they're going to re-cut it to include Plasma/Melta/Stubber (which they should really), then they can do that.

Personally I'd love a plastic Command Squad box.

BYE

I can see them doing a Cadian plastic command box and have that include all the specials on a sprue. IG players still won't have enough plasma and melta, we will NEVER have enough plasma, but it would work.

A command squad sprue with a boss and 2 vets, and a heavy weapon sprue.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

1hadhq wrote:Why not?

Simple money reasons.

Plastic moulds are expensive. Producing two lines of infantry that are the same in-game, but just look different aesthetically, would be bad business. I can see them maybe doing one generic 'long-coat' infantry style, but not two separate kits.

BYE

3, don't forget catachans

Sgt.Roadkill wrote:3, don't forget catachans

I wish I could.

bejustorbedead wrote:

Sgt.Roadkill wrote:3, don't forget catachans

I wish I could.

Not a fan of the t-shirt save?

I'd like to at least see a plastic command squad sprue too.. 5 bodies with everything you need to make an officer, standard, medic, master vox and various assault weapons, maybe a couple sniper rifles, demo charges, etc too.

If they made one for cadians and one for catchatans that would be cool. Then they could also package it with 2 HW teams and 20 or 30 guys as a platoon box set.

I'd really like to see the cadians redone to have the left hands all be empty instead of molded on lasgun, like the way marines are. Would be easier to convert stuff and give em other weapons, let em hold grenades or whatever else.

I dunno, my gut tells me that these are completely bunk for the most part.

Not only because they really do read too much like a Guard fanboy wishlist, but they also seem to be counter-intuitive to GWs vision of the Imperial Guard. Which is an army model based on out-moded war ideals (Which, in fact, makes 40k fun!). Fast scout vehicles and true mechanized infantry are concepts far too modern for an army from 38,000 years in the future.

That's not to say I wouldn't love a FAV. Ride that thing up the flanks then use the new ramming rules to turn it into a KAMIKAZI BALLISTIC MISSILE!! You could even have a decent shot of popping a land raider, if you got enough speed. Vrrrooom!

You know I think I may use my Centaurs to this effect...

mattyboy22 wrote:

bejustorbedead wrote:

Sgt.Roadkill wrote:3, don't forget catachans

I wish I could.

Not a fan of the t-shirt save?

They're just so undeniably 80's and Rambo, they need to bring it into the 21st century...

... The easiest method of doing this would be to make them emo's



Catachans don't really count, as they are metal molds, and are unlikely to be updated this codex (from what it looks like)

Plastic molds seem to be harder to make, as they need to be flexible (Although I may be wrong, having no casting experience. Maybe Foda might know)

So with any luck, we might see our trenchcoat weilding friends this codex. Well thats my $0.02 anyway.

I would love to see plastic IG assault weapons beyond the Grenade Launcher and Flamer. Though both will be more effective this edition. Having to buy metal blisters for common weapon choices is annoying. I really hate filing metals. Their only saving grace is they don't need to be pinned like many metal and hybrid models. I got very sick of pinning while attaching arms to older metal marines.

"I would love to see plastic IG assault weapons beyond the Grenade Launcher and Flamer."

Dear God, please let this happen. The squad boxes for most other armies include a plasma or some other special weapon that isnt worthless like a grenade launcher.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Plastic moulds are expensive. Producing two lines of infantry that are the same in-game, but just look different aesthetically, would be bad business. I can see them maybe doing one generic 'long-coat' infantry style, but not two separate kits.

Yeah, I think it'd be one kit. But who's to say there can't be some head options on the sprue? The scooper might have had their signals just slightly crossed.

I think greatcoats are a possibility. Can't tell me they wouldn't sell equally to or better than, say, plastic Easterlings. I don't think the plastic mold hurdle is anywhere near as high as it used to be, from looking at some of the things they've made in plastic recently. The SKUs might be a bigger hurdle based on how GW seems to be operating these days.

WHile it would be nice to see a 3rd Guard regiment and maybe go with the 'Light, Medium, Heavy' idea many have suggested (Catachans, Cadians, Greatcoats) I thinkt he chance of seeing this is slim... The chance of seeing TWO new sculpts is near nonexistant.

Still, I can kind of see the justification for one in theming. GW's really been pushing the 'gothic' part of the setting the alst few years, and the Cadians have little of that (with the exception of the skulls in some of their logo, of course..). Right now, the 'gothicness' of the IG is primarily characters and vehicle decor. Greatcoats would be a way to make the IG look a little more like the desperate fighting-the-good-fight-but-doomed warriors the fluff favors.

I can't help but wonder if some of these rumours could be compiled into a few, likely ideas.

A light transport and a light fast attack choice sounds like it could be a plastic Salamander. It would be easy for GW to add a single sprue to the chimera kit to allow it to be assembled as either the command variant (transport capacity of >10) or as a scout. I'd love to see these things in plastic.

Heavy Stubbers sound like a natural choice to me, especially if they're also available as hull/sponson mounts on a re-cut leman russ sprue.

I'll believe plastic valhallans and DKoK when I see them, but if they're going to turn up it would make sense to see them as a combined kit of generic greatcoat guardsmen that bear as much resemblance to either regiment as the plastic cadians do to the old metals.

I'd rather an expanded range of Vostroyans. They're the most '40K' of any Guard regiment they've ever made.

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:[Vostroyans are] most '40K' of any Guard regiment they've ever made.

That's infuriatingly true. Vostroyans frustrate me because they're the best looking, technically best sculpted godawful idea I've ever seen. The fact that they're very very true to the background makes me feel bad -- kind of examining the words "space wolves" out of context.

I'd love to see greatcoat guard, but I'd also like to see models that approximate human anatomy while we're making s*** up.

I think a re-cut line of cadian sprues with command models, specials, and maybe stubbers would be as much as we could hope for.

That being said, guard will need mobility. A static gunline that needs to advance to take objectives isn't getting its point value, and I'm not fond of having to rely on single, fragile squads of elites (like stormtroopers) to do it either. A cheap transport option would fit in nicely, both mechanically and fluff-wise.

Expand vostroyans gets us nowhere.
This pricy metal model line stands against cheap plastic ones like cadia and catachan.
Fine sculpted metal is Good for collectors and fans ,but not so easy to buy a guard worthy number of them. :S
Gw has more to expect from plastic models if they redo the weapons.

Traditionally plastic kits have been more limited due to the initial cost outlay. However, with GWs massive investment in the technology they should be able to produce such kits for much less than before, with better detail etc to boot as we are seeing these days.

With that in mind I offer my first born (when I have one) to what ever god to make the above rumours all correct.

Sadly it does seem just too good to be true, though how many of the marine rumours have turned out bang on that were intially rejected. Shame its so long away....

Plastic Parody wrote:Traditionally plastic kits have been more limited due to the initial cost outlay. However, with GWs massive investment in the technology they should be able to produce such kits for much less than before, with better detail etc to boot as we are seeing these days.

While the technology makes the plastic kits much cheaper to produce, the initial investment in each plastic kit is still very expensive. Thus one of the reasons that kits that will be mass sold are the ones that are tackled and the less common/less popular kits hit the blisters. Basically GW takes a loss on all new models until that kit hits sales that surpass the investment in the mold setup. I think it still costs over 100,000 dollars per mold setup.. AT least at one point that is what we as GW staff were told.. being out of the GW loop for a few years, It might have changed, but I doubt it would cost less for mold setup.

Wow i even half of these are true. because that would be good

Chances of Krieg plastics are slim to nill, more chance of hell freezing over and holding skating contests than that happening. The Krieg line is one of the top-selling ranges that FW has to offer, they wouldn't turn it over to GW that easily. Same can be said of the Centaur, which is more a fast gun tractor than a transport in most respects.

The rest also sounds iffy. Bikes for Rough Riders maybe, but I'd rather see them as actual cavalry on fleshy mounts instead of some bike mob like all the other armies.

edit.

Personally though I am hoping for a re-cut of the current Cadian sprue along with a new metal Cadian senior officer model. The current model is a tad too outlandish for my tastes.

Man I just want a guard helo. That would really make my day. Some kind of arial transport even though they may die like flies I still want one. Plus it would stop me from making a Vietnam amry from Catachans and toy helicopters using the new SM scouts rules. (with landspeeder transport)

Ratbarf wrote:Man I just want a guard helo. That would really make my day. Some kind of arial transport even though they may die like flies I still want one. Plus it would stop me from making a Vietnam amry from Catachans and toy helicopters using the new SM scouts rules. (with landspeeder transport)

We're getting Valkyries with Planet Strike, which are futuristic helos one way or the other. They even have door-gunners.

True, but I don't know which rule set would be better for making helo like thingies for the guard.

Ratbarf wrote:True, but I don't know which rule set would be better for making helo like thingies for the guard.

Rebuild a valkyrie a bit and get a vulture? Makes transport - helo plus gunship - helo available.

I know this isn't going to happen, but I want to see the return of Praetorians

Bob the Hobo wrote:I know this isn't going to happen, but I want to see the return of Praetorians

I heard they're after the squats but before the pan fo

Anyway on topic there was news that plastic start up costs have gone down.

Computer drafting elminates the need for 3-ups and the time consuming task of reducing them to the proper size.

The new entries into the plactis market have also said their costs are much lower than GW made them out to be.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:The new entries into the plactis market have also said their costs are much lower than GW made them out to be.

I guess that means GW will soon be passing the savings onto us.

Oh.

Wait.


BYE

The mould for the Land Raider cost £250k.

At £30 each (as it was when it came out) they needed to sell 8,500 just to repay the cost of the mould. That's before materials, time, packaging, shipping, staffing etc. (not to mention sculpting the prototypes etc.)

Fair enough, the development costs have dropped, but you still need that precision steel mould to be made, and all the other costs are still there.

Now GW will ultimately make a healthy profit on Land Raiders, as they will on every other mould, but it takes time and its a risk for any company to splash that amount of cash.

At the end of the day, its a business and they won't do anything unless its commercially viable, no matter how much die-hard fans want to see it. This is one of the reasons GW has lasted this long when many other game companies have folded.



P.S. I worked for GW not long after they had commissioned that mould, so I'm not just making this up!!

Bob the Hobo wrote:I know this isn't going to happen, but I want to see the return of Praetorians

I don't expect to see a return, but some mention once in a great while, especially in the codex would be nice.

I think plastic specials would be good. I have a feeling this "jeep" idea will more than likely just be the slamander. Sentinels do need a touch up, let them take an assault cannon or somthing.

The mythical IG scout car is getting to be (or already is) another "plastic Cadian" rumor, except this time I doubt we'll actually get it. I know some fluff pieces have had jeep-style vehicles in them being used by IG, but in the game itself it seems that the Sentinels take the place of such a vehicle, whether or not they're effective.

Also, I think Guard needs to have rending bayonets for every line squad. I feel very strongly about this.

GW may as well make a MASH unit, just to mend our broken dreams. Once more into the breach!

rending would be awsome. That would totally change the way people play guard. They might become more offensive. I would not be oppsed to that at all.

Rending bayonets would be awesome. Marine players would think twice about charging my lines. It'd especially be great in 50-man conscript platoons.

That'd really change things about, since the way to go would be waves of infantry assaulting tanks and opening them up like tin cans...

Man, Rending on bayonets is crap, first of all. Utter nonsense.

Second of all, Rending bayonets would only make sense when the squad is both in close order drill, and is being charged. They would lose the benefit when out of COD, or if they charge.

How about Power Bayonets? And if you take that new inquisitor guy for your HQ choice you can upgrade to force bayonets!!

Rifle butts: count as thunderhammers.

MinMax wrote:Man, Rending on bayonets is crap, first of all. Utter nonsense.

Second of all, Rending bayonets would only make sense when the squad is both in close order drill, and is being charged. They would lose the benefit when out of COD, or if they charge.

I'm joking of course...

Uh... the point of guard is to have them charged then get eaten in large quantities. Now if you made them rediculously cheap and horrible (like three pts for basic guardsmen) then I think it would kick ass.

I have Commissars on turbo-charged jetbikes (from the old RT days), maybe they will bring back those. Haha!.. Has anybody heard any new rumors about gravchute troops?

Guys, not every army needs a rending weapon.

The current arsenal of the Sentinel is pretty good, maybe GW will go nuts and give it a heavy bolter and multi-melta along with the other weapons, as with FW's drop sentinel, but thats just a silly thought.

Jeezy Peezy, I thought the fact that the guy named "Nerf_IG" suggesting rending bayonets was enough of an indication that it was a joke. Sorry guys, next time I'll remember to use the ork heads.

For the record, I support the idea that IG infantry should be little more than speed bumps who can do some damage once you're able to concentrate their heavy weapons.

One unit I would like to see would be a forward observer-type guy, able to call in distant heavy artillery or possibly even a naval officer on loan to a guard regiment who can direct orbital strikes. I've used an Inquisitor to represent this in the past, but I'd really like to see guard get something along those lines, even if it's an Apoc thing.

Funny enough the Renegades of the Vraks army list have just such an option for calling in artillery strikes through a vox.

Voxcasters should help reduce the scatter on indirect fire weapons. For each Vox that can see the target, reduce scatter by 1".

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:Voxcasters should help reduce the scatter on indirect fire weapons. For each Vox that can see the target, reduce scatter by 1".

BYE

That would make my Vox Network kick too much booty. I would definitely put that Basilisk in my Summer budget.

Dear God... my 3 Thudd Gun, 4 Heavy Mortar, 3 Basilisk army would LOVE that idea!

Hell, I'd take mortar teams just to cram more inidrect fire into the list.

1 Platoon would make half the army BS6.
Live in fear, ground pounders.

I love the idea of that rule. Maybe to keep it from becoming abused, have the spotter pass a leadership test unmodified by any nearby Officers' Leadership ability to test whether they can perform fire control under fire. Or maybe limit the ability to command squads and/or vet. sergeants with a vox in the squad.

Or maybe make it a doctri... oh wait.

Nerf_IG wrote:Jeezy Peezy, I thought the fact that the guy named "Nerf_IG" suggesting rending bayonets was enough of an indication that it was a joke.

Well, I for one am still holding out hope for the rumored rending kittens.

bigchris1313 wrote:

Well, I for one am still holding out hope for the rumored rending kittens.

Man I would NOT want to have to model a bunch of these for WYSIWYG...

and those things are suppossed to be cute...

+1 for each vox in range would make things too easy in my opinion. Scatter is sometimes half the fun!

Funny enough I heard today that the IG will get four custom army strategems for Apocalypse, one of them is titled "Fix On My Coordinates!", which allows a model with vox caster who passes a leadership to call an orbital strike on his position. Now we can finally reenact inept Vietnam era leadership

AlexCage wrote:1 Platoon would make half the army BS6.

victorpofa wrote:That would make my Vox Network kick too much booty. I would definitely put that Basilisk in my Summer budget.

ubermosher wrote:I love the idea of that rule. Maybe to keep it from becoming abused, have the spotter pass a leadership test unmodified by any nearby Officers' Leadership ability to test whether they can perform fire control under fire. Or maybe limit the ability to command squads and/or vet. sergeants with a vox in the squad.

+1 for each vox in range would make things too easy in my opinion.

Oh maybe limit Voxes. Did none of you think of that?

Did everyone just read my suggestion and assume that you'd tack my rule onto the existing rules, costs and limitations of Voxes (ie. one in every squad for 5 points)?

One per platoon, or maybe a special 'Radio-Man' per platoon that can be attached to a squad - something to limit their use - and then give them the rule I said. It's certainly better than the idiotic leaderhsip rule ("Corporal! There are three of us left and we're about to be killed by the rest of these Berzerkers who are standing 2 feet away from me. Get on the horn to command and ask see if we should hold or run!")

BYE

I hope these rumours are true, we need more flavour in the imperial soup and more models provides this not just as a tactic view but as a painters and models view too.

H.B.M.C. wrote: ("Corporal! There are three of us left and we're about to be killed by the rest of these Berzerkers who are standing 2 feet away from me. Get on the horn to command and ask see if we should hold or run!")

Quoted for truth.

As far as the discussion goes about needing more flavor and different tactics goes, I mean, it'd be nice to get some new fun tricks, I'm not sure what folks are looking for...flavor-wise, there's nearly as much fluff and ability to customize your IG armies as there is for SM. As far as new tactics goes, do people want Assaulty guard? How silly is that? Seriously, if you want an assaulty army, there's no lack of assaulty armies to choose from instead of playing IG that way. Is it new toys that you want to shoot with? Ok, I can see that, but compared to a lot of other armies, selection-wise, IG has it good.

Mainly, we want a reduction in points for our basic trooper, and a fair and balanced approach to doctrines that allows us to create more than one standard build. (Drop, Iron Discipline, Close Order Drill being pretty much everyone's top choices).

We want more than one cookie cutter army.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Did everyone just read my suggestion and assume that you'd tack my rule onto the existing rules, costs and limitations of Voxes (ie. one in every squad for 5 points)?

Yes. And I would have gotten away with it too if it weren't for you snoopin' kids and that @^#$@ dog. ::shakes fist menacingly::

H.B.M.C. wrote:

AlexCage wrote:1 Platoon would make half the army BS6.

Oh maybe limit Voxes. Did none of you think of that?

Did everyone just read my suggestion and assume that you'd tack my rule onto the existing rules, costs and limitations of Voxes (ie. one in every squad for 5 points)?

One per platoon, or maybe a special 'Radio-Man' per platoon that can be attached to a squad - something to limit their use - and then give them the rule I said. It's certainly better than the idiotic leaderhsip rule ("Corporal! There are three of us left and we're about to be killed by the rest of these Berzerkers who are standing 2 feet away from me. Get on the horn to command and ask see if we should hold or run!")

BYE

Make it dependant on the layer of command the vox is attached to. If the command squad Vox can see then get -6, platoon command -4, squad vox -2 (for instance, maybe -4, -2 and -1). Take best bonus available as that layer of command thorws its weight around.

The other alternative would be to have forward obs squads or similar.

Flinty (also needs more combat engineers)

Personally I would LOVE a forward observer upgrade.

Seems to me it'd be appropriate to give the option to upgrade ONE of the following units in your army with the Forward Observer upgrade:
Sentinel
Salamander
Model equiped with Vox-caster

Definitely keeps Salamanders and Sentinels in line with the whole recon thing.

Maybe make it require the SO to be alive. I dunno, I just like things going through the SO.

Valhallan42nd wrote:Mainly, we want a reduction in points for our basic trooper, and a fair and balanced approach to doctrines that allows us to create more than one standard build. (Drop, Iron Discipline, Close Order Drill being pretty much everyone's top choices).

We want more than one cookie cutter army.

Personally, that's kind of why I'm excited about the prospect of mutable platoons. The idea of having a LI platoon or two supported by a drop platoon or mechanized platoon seems really cool. Much more in line with the fluff of combined regiments fighting than having an entire army of guardsmen that all fight exactly the same way.

Add in the supposed options to upgrade or attach squads to platoons like vets, and I think you have the makings of an army that will be very different from person to person.

It looks as if Traits for Marines are gone, so I'm fairly sure that Doctrines will be as well.

We'll probably get the points drop for basic troopers though.

Nah. Points costs will remain the same.

But I have it on good authority that the Str of Lasguns will go up to 5! And all Guardsmen will receive a 4+ armor save.

Chimeras are now skimmers, also.

Finally, Guard are unique AND competitive.

Nice, had me going there for a second.

I really like the idea that somone had in here where the master vox caster could for a price call in an artillery strike like the basilisk provided they had LOS to the target or another squad with a vox had LOS

AlexCage wrote:Nah. Points costs will remain the same.

But I have it on good authority that the Str of Lasguns will go up to 5! And all Guardsmen will receive a 4+ armor save.

Chimeras are now skimmers, also.

Finally, Guard are unique AND competitive.

Um, OK?

I heard they're going to have an appendix where you can build a LatD army!

*covers head and prepares for hurled chaos conversion work*

Current UK WD (no. 343) revealed that design studio newbie Robin Cruddace will be working on the Guard codex and he had this to say about new codex: "More tanks. A lot more tanks."

Appendix army suggestions? That is so, last edition fantasy!

More tanks! Awesome. Now we can finally return to a time where Guard tanks would sweep across the battlefield, guns blazing and the enemies of mankind falling.

Oh wait... tanks are back to being bunkers in 5th.

My bad.


Although I will say that if the main lists allows you to field more than the standard 3 Russes and in greater variety (a Demolisher here, a couple of lone Russes, a Squadron of Exterminators), it will be quite nice and also gives me a little more justification for owning 30 Russes...

BYE

Vanquishers baby. The world is not right without vanquishers.

At BS3?

Not worth the resin they're made from. Unless they could use their co-axial Storm Bolters that is. Then they're good.

I have four Vanquishers, and they are very cool, but they need to be BS4 to be worthwhile. That many points for 3 hits a game... no thanks.

BYE

I wonder if the plan will be to have many more stripped down tanks with just turret ordnance and hull mount moving 6" every turn, and a few "fire support" type tanks with full sponsons and non-ordnance guns parked in cover pumping out shots.
Not terribly exciting, though I find my Exorcists are still plenty mobile

how about they carnifexify the russes? sponsons = heavy choice, no sponsons = elite?

Or make a tank commander HQ option that allows for tanks as troops choices, and/or tanks in the extended command squad (like sentinels now).

Yeah, I'll definitely say that as a longtime player who's just getting into IG that it's discouraging to only get to field a combination of 3 Russes and/or Basilisks. It'd be nice to be able to field a lot more. The rumors about being able to attach armor to infantry platoons could increase the armor, but I'll be interested to see how many more tanks you can realistically field for the points (unless the points cost for tanks will go down, too!)

H.B.M.C. wrote: gives me a little more justification for owning 30 Russes...

BYE

You're quite mad sir. Russes are justification enough on their own for owning 30 of them! Anything more is just to placate the naysayers and detractors of the glorious armored might of the guard.



More. Tanks.

MORE! Get those IA1 tanks in there! All of em! Then maybe I won't hear "What the hell is that thing?" so often... Atleast not about my Russes.

H.B.M.C. wrote:At BS3?

Not worth the resin they're made from. Unless they could use their co-axial Storm Bolters that is. Then they're good.

I have four Vanquishers, and they are very cool, but they need to be BS4 to be worthwhile. That many points for 3 hits a game... no thanks.

BYE

1. I didn't say they were worthwhile from a gaming standpoint sans BS4 (practically required in A company with nice tank ace/commander option).
2. They are just very cool

Russes should have an upgrade or special rule so HB sponsons count as defensive.

I agree, Hobo. I agree.

Now, here's a fifth of rotgut. I hope it warms your carboard box.

Thing I fear the most, though this could very well be just me, is that when they tinker with the Russ that they might dick around with the armour values as well, in a bad way. "More tanks? Slice the armour here and there for 'balancing' issues"

jfrazell wrote:
2. They are just very cool

Nice Kingtiger
1:48?

BrookM wrote:"More tanks? Slice the armour here and there for 'balancing' issues"

The design studio hasn't worried about balance since 1987. Why should you?

1hadhq wrote:

jfrazell wrote:
2. They are just very cool

Nice Kingtiger
1:48?

Yes indeed. Panthers have a similar effect but at the higher 1:35 or so scale.

Ever used a Tiger I in 1:35?

AlexCage wrote:MORE! Get those IA1 tanks in there! All of em! Then maybe I won't hear "What the hell is that thing?" so often... Atleast not about my Russes.

Oh I have lots of IA1 tanks. The only Forge World Russ variant that I don't own is the Conquerer... because it sucks. My Russes are broken down into:

4 Vanquishers w/Hull Lascannons
3 Exterminators w/3HBs
1 Annihilator w/Hull Lascannon
1 Executioner w/Hull and Sponsons Plasma Cannons (couldn't resist having an all-plasma tank! )
2 Demolishers w/Hull Lascannons + Sponson Multi-Meltas
4 Demolishers w/Hull Lascannons + Sponson Plasma Cannons
6 Russes w/Lascannon + HBs
3 Russes w/3 HBs
3 Russes w/Hull HBs + No Sponsons
3 Russes w/Hull Lascannons + No Sponsons

The 31st Russ Hull that I have is actually a Bombard, which sits in my Artillery Corp that has 4 Basilisks (1 Enclosed), 2 Griffons and 3 Manticores.

And, of course, this is all backed up by 3 Baneblades, 1 Hellhammer, 1 Stormblade and 3 Macharius'.

And I haven't even mentioned the MechInf Company, the Sentinel Recon Company or anything else...

Apoc was good to our group.

BYE

Bob the Hobo wrote:Russes should have an upgrade or special rule so HB sponsons count as defensive.

It should really just be a general rule - All weapons mounted in Sponsons are counted as Defensive weapons regardless of their Strength Value.

BYE

Yes, we *really* need Land Raider twin Lascannons to be counted as Defensive, because Space Marines aren't popular enough already...

Don't forget their upcoming Inferno Cannon things!

Get defensive weapons should depend on AP to restrict it on anti-infantry.

I would take AP 4 as max for defensive for all weapons at vehicles.

Really, though, the point simply illustrates the problem of trying to be simplistic ans saying that all Sponsons / whatever are Defensive. Making a Sponson exception is highly punitive to non-Imperials, given that they generally don't have Sponsons at all.

Who needs sponsons if restricted to AP ?

JohnHwangDD wrote:Yes, we *really* need Land Raider twin Lascannons to be counted as Defensive, because Space Marines aren't popular enough already...

It'd make Land Raiders worth their huge price tag.

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:Yes, we *really* need Land Raider twin Lascannons to be counted as Defensive, because Space Marines aren't popular enough already...

It'd make Land Raiders worth their huge price tag.

BYE

Adjust the price then, don't let them break a rule.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Yes, we *really* need Land Raider twin Lascannons to be counted as Defensive, because Space Marines aren't popular enough already...

The latest set of rumors are that the machine spirit will allow the Land Raider to move 6" and still fire all it's weapons. If the 40K universe is a high school the space marines were already captain of the 40K football team and soon they'll be crowned 40K prom king

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/212817.page

Jay of Moore wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:Yes, we *really* need Land Raider twin Lascannons to be counted as Defensive, because Space Marines aren't popular enough already...

The latest set of rumors are that the machine spirit will allow the Land Raider to move 6" and still fire all it's weapons. If the 40K universe is a high school the space marines were already captain of the 40K football team and soon they'll be crowned 40K prom king

To shoot on the move is offensive,not defensive.
The hurricane bolters on a crusader can count as defensive.

So the rule for S4 defensive weapons is overridden in the first codex to be released, Impressive! To me 5th edition isn't shaping up as an improvment so far.

I hear the guard codex may be released early 2008, If it sucks it may be time to give 40k the shove and move to greener pastures.

Use weapons in my"own"phase to shoot is defensive?
The Machine-Spirit allows full use of weapons(at loyal LRaiders)
in a phase,when I'm already free to act.No extra shots there!
Tanks use also tlos,can fire only at a target my weapons angles
can swivel to.
Place your mini in front and no sponson can aim at.

Field more Land Raiders

That armies break rules is not new, its what makes them special in the first place. Remember how many people got slightly angry when it was revealed that space marines could deep-strike even if the mission wouldn't allow such a thing? If Guard gets to use sponsons as defensive weapons all I can say is

I agree, who cares if the LR can now move and fire, for its ludicrous points value it needs to be good. and John, you play marines, why are you complaining?

I would like to see peopl actually field land raiders who aren't little kids. I know it would giv eme a reason to finish painting mine and finally put it on the table. Hell, i might even buy two more (have all three variants) and finally do the mechanized terminator army i always thought about putting together.

Though with Terminator squads rumored to be limited to 5 men now, why bother with the LRC?

Seems odd to me, limiting Terminators to 5, doing away with retinues (Command Squads included?).

The way the GW pendulum works, I'm surprised that crew capacities on the LRC are essentially taking the hit.

You can always shove in a ten-man veterans squad with a tacked on character, or is this silly thinking?

Alpharius wrote:Though with Terminator squads rumored to be limited to 5 men now, why bother with the LRC?

Seems odd to me, limiting Terminators to 5, doing away with retinues (Command Squads included?).

The way the GW pendulum works, I'm surprised that crew capacities on the LRC are essentially taking the hit.

Now the LRC returns to BT only. (more termies,15 men squads,...). :S

1hadhq wrote:Now the LRC returns to BT only. (more termies,15 men squads,...). :S

I wouldn't necessarily say that - characters in Terminator armor aren't the most popular in the world, but there's still utility in LRCs for a 5-man Terminator Squad with a character attached (I'm looking at you, TLC Belial with a Deathwing Squad).

Death By Monkeys wrote:

1hadhq wrote:Now the LRC returns to BT only. (more termies,15 men squads,...). :S

I wouldn't necessarily say that - characters in Terminator armor aren't the most popular in the world, but there's still utility in LRCs for a 5-man Terminator Squad with a character attached (I'm looking at you, TLC Belial with a Deathwing Squad).

So termies "not common" ,but going for belial and termies... :S

DA termies should deepstrike to a position already marked by ravenwingbikes.

Crusader works fine for 10 men plus IC's (up to 3) or BT 14+chaplain.
As DA you cannot "group" IC (as current C: SM)!

What do you expect from belial+5 Termies?

1hadhq wrote:So termies "not common" ,but going for belial and termies... :S

DA termies should deepstrike to a position already marked by ravenwingbikes.

Crusader works fine for 10 men plus IC's (up to 3) or BT 14+chaplain.
As DA you cannot "group" IC (as current C: SM)!

What do you expect from belial+5 Termies?

Nah, I wasn't saying it was common, but I don't think the LRC will be solely relegated to the BTs. And while the DA can't have Chaplains or Librarians attached to a "Command Squad", the DA's Chaplains and Librarians are still independent characters that can join a unit. So you could have a pretty useful squad of Belial, a Chaplain, and 5 TLC Terminators loaded up in a LRC.

As far as how DW "should" be used, there's lots of different ways to get good utility out of them. Using DWA and RW bikes to bring them in is just one.

This is all pretty far off topic from being a discussion of further IG rumors, though...

Suppose the Leman Russ had the Relentless special rule?

you can now add a character to a squad before the game starts, to you can toss a termy character in with a 5 man squad and they start in the same trasport.

I guess this is their way of restricting LRC use to only Templars without removing the option entirely.

Finally, my BT Terminator Command Squads will be shown more love...

CK

Back to topic:
IG had before HH some Land Raiders.
Now two chassis are IG's workhorse: leman russ and chimera.

Has the new IG dex more variants? (exterminator/vanquisher)?

Ekranoplan wrote:Suppose the Leman Russ had the Relentless special rule?

All vehicles have the Relentless rule - it's what allows them to fire heavy weapons when they move, and also allows vehicles with rapid-fire weapons to shoot those as if they were stationary.

If IG Sponsons counted as Defensive Weapons in the new 'Dex, I'd be happy.

Agreed! QFT!

jfrazell wrote:Vanquishers baby. The world is not right without vanquishers.

A nice compromise-twin linked H. stubbers in the sponsons. Not too powerful but still get to shoot.

I'd be happy with just defensive HB and HF sponsons. Sure defensive multi-meltas and plasma cannon sponsons on Russ Demolishers would be great, but everyone else would complain. Plasma cannons are blast weapons, so according to 5th ED rules, they scatter, rather than miss. Horde players, and probably marine players too, will scream and yell until they pass out. I usually don't care if other players complain, seeing how IG seems to usually get the short end of the stick, but it does seem a bit over powered. The Demolisher would be able to push foward 6" a turn, open up with a hull mounted lascannon (Or heavy bolter) and both sponson plasma cannons until Mr. Blasty, the Demolisher Cannon, gets in range and annihilates whatever it shoots at. And of course vehicles in 5th are much harder to destroy...

Yeah, as an IG player, I'd love an "all sponsons are defensive rule," but looking at balance, I'd rather have only heavy bolter and heavy flamer sponsons count as defensive.

I don’t think there’s really a single arbitrary rule that’ll produce entirely satisfactory set of defensive weapons. Any strength value, on a sponson or not, it doesn’t matter, there’s going to be weapons that deserve to be made defensive that aren’t, and weapons that shouldn’t be defensive but are.

The best design option is to go codex by codex, unit by unit, declaring a weapon upgrade as defensive or not. This would allow GW to price weapons and tanks appropriately in each new codex.

It’d also make the harshness of the current St 4 defensive weapons rule make a little sense, as it was part of a plan to have vehicles balanced (somewhat) on the release of the new ruleset. As each codex is released in turn, the weapons for each vehicle are classified as heavy or not, as priced appropriately. That is hopelessly optimistic, I know.

You'd consider that a rule allowing sponsons to always fire - given that sponsons are usually on a tank's flanks, in order to defend it - is somehow arbitrary?

BYE

I know nostalgizing is somewhat odious, but I harken back to the days of 2E, where sponsons could choose their targets separately. That made logical sense, though under current rules, it'd multiply the threat a single Leman Russ poses. You could have a single tank engage 2-3 units every turn. I guess if I want to do that, I could just convert a Russ into a Malcador.

Case-by-case defensive weapons assignments would, in my opinion, be a good idea. That way, it'd just be a characteristic of a vehicle, like access points or weapon mounts.

Can someone post a consolidated list of the rumors for IG?

mmm

never understood why they didnt go for 'racial traits', so as said above this would allow them more flexibilty to modify things like defensive weapon str making it more appropriate to race/tech

Is there a reason to fix defensive to a weapon and classify it by str?

Defensive is : defensive against everything or defensive against infantry (or footsloggers in general). ?

When only infantry is meant, it would be better to take armor penetration as base stat.

Sponsons have a disadvantage = only 90 ° (IG) or 180° (some SM) "field of death"

well most of the fluff i have read says that most space marine vehicles have a crew of 2(gunner and driver), while guard vehicles have drivers and gunners for every weapon.....so i would hope that if they take away the sponsons while moving then maybe they will let every gunner shoot a different target if the vehicle remains stationary......more bang for your buck lol

Having the sponsons fire at different targets would slow the game down, not by much but you catch my drift. GW is vehemently against anything that will slow down the flow of a battle.

Except having to roll saves on each individual model...