Great 1st impression for once! there's a great rined cathedral on the back cover made from the cityfight buildings. the new snap fit sets are £5, counter set looks just as pants as last issue, colourful colour art on the new game box, nice looking modelling workshop (although not much detail) on gaming tables, the usual, this is what we tried to do with the rules, free quick reference sheet (again looking bland compared to previous ones) and it says in 2 issues time we get a free plastic termie and nob.

Bear in mind have read like 2 sentences so just going off rough articles. Hopeing they have better detail than the usual drivel that doesn't say much. Just thought I'd share as the last few havn't looked interesting enough to actually read, whereas this at least looks deserving of a look through at the moment.

What do other think?

Howzabout a list of the articles inside? That would be really great for me.

Plus, bonus minis are fun too!

and/or any scans of important pictures?

-Porkuslime

covenant84 wrote:in 2 issues time we get a free plastic termie and nob.

What do other think?

If the cover price remains the same, I think that the "free" minis may actually make WD worth buying.

Heaven knows I don't want glossy toilet paper...

I don't really get why people complain about how expensive WD is. If you can't afford $6 a month for something to read when you're in the can, isn't that more of a commentary on your lack of earning power than it is on the publishers of WD?

"I'm poor, therefore you suck!"

Really?

I believe it's the lack of content, and therefore not worthy of reading in the can, that upsets people. More power to you if you actually enjoy it.

Phryxis, that's the funniest thing I have heard all day. Entertain us with more of these nuggets of "wisdom". And don't try to say I don't earn, bud. A post like that would just be utter stupidity.

yeah...

I have not read the new issue, but:
I don't get the WD hate... I always look forward to the next WD.
I don't mind that i can read it all in a hour or two, once i'm finnished i'm up to date on my hobby, isn't that the point?
I can always flick through it again, if i'm bored.
What do you expect when you buy it, that it'll keep you entertained for a whole month till the next one comes out?
It can't be easy creating all that content every single month. and i think its quality lately has been excellent.

If you think ou can do better write something, post it and wait for feed back? maybe they will give you a job!

PaniC...

The WD hate has been around for a while. While the ad content isn't that much higher than say, five years ago, there are far more puff peices that do little than show off the models. If you view WD as a monthly catalog update and journal, you're not far off.

Virtually every recurring WD feature that was loved has been axed: Chapter Approved, Enemies/heros of the Imperium, Army Profiles, specialist games, etc. The continued presence of LotR is an annoyance to those of us who don't play it, espeically when they seem to get rules, army lists, and neat profiles and 40k doesn't.

Honestly, to understand the WD Hate, just look at last month's WD.

It was just about devoid of ANY meaningful content.

For a company like GW to publish something like that is almost inconceivable!

Yeah, almost.

Still, every month I hope it will get better!

Alpharius wrote:inconceivable!

This word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

Oh, must be nice to pay $6.00 a month for WHFB and LoTR articles. We get to pay almost $12.00 for the same stuff. Go GW Canada!

Mat

Phryxis wrote:I don't really get why people complain about how expensive WD is. If you can't afford $6 a month for something to read when you're in the can, isn't that more of a commentary on your lack of earning power than it is on the publishers of WD?

"I'm poor, therefore you suck!"

Really?

The issue for most people stems from the fact that White Dwarf used to be a very different magazine from what it is now and the people who 'hate' it now are those that liked the magazine the way it was before.

Although it has, for a very, very long time now, been a glorified advertisement for Games Workshop products, in years past it still felt as though it was written by gamers passionate about the hobby and it covered a wide spectrum of different GW games, and article types (including new rules for their games) so most issues had at least a little something for everyone.

For the most part now, all the 'personality' has been stripped out of the magazine and you often don't even know who is writing an article you are reading. The magazine editorial is even written in a fictional tone (by the 'White Dwarf') so you really don't get a sense that this is a magazine written by anyone with any goals or passion.

It only covers the three core games now and all the articles fall into tactics, hobby advice (painting/modeling) and battle reports. There are no more new rules presented, campaign and scenario ideas are pretty rare. In short, the article variety is pretty limited now. You can also find all the pictures of models online, giving players even less reason to pick up the mag.


With all that said, it really isn't any worse than any other magazine put out by a parent company trying to push their products (like a 'Nintendo Power') and $6 these days for a full-color glossy magazine of that size is pretty much standard.

Despite the fact that I like it much, much less than previous years I continue to buy it the same reason I occasionally buy video game magazines even though I can go online and see all the video game preview/reviews I want: It's nice to have something to hold in your hands and read about your favorite hobbies.

George Spiggott wrote:

Alpharius wrote:inconceivable!

This word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

No, it does actually.

Especially if you think about it.

yakface wrote:

Phryxis wrote:I don't really get why people complain about how expensive WD is. If you can't afford $6 a month for something to read when you're in the can, isn't that more of a commentary on your lack of earning power than it is on the publishers of WD?

"I'm poor, therefore you suck!"

Really?

The issue for most people stems from the fact that White Dwarf used to be a very different magazine from what it is now and the people who 'hate' it now are those that liked the magazine the way it was before.

Although it has, for a very, very long time now, been a glorified advertisement for Games Workshop products, in years past it still felt as though it was written by gamers passionate about the hobby and it covered a wide spectrum of different GW games, and article types (including new rules for their games) so most issues had at least a little something for everyone.

For the most part now, all the 'personality' has been stripped out of the magazine and you often don't even know who is writing an article you are reading. The magazine editorial is even written in a fictional tone (by the 'White Dwarf') so you really don't get a sense that this is a magazine written by anyone with any goals or passion.

It only covers the three core games now and all the articles fall into tactics, hobby advice (painting/modeling) and battle reports. There are no more new rules presented, campaign and scenario ideas are pretty rare. In short, the article variety is pretty limited now. You can also find all the pictures of models online, giving players even less reason to pick up the mag.


With all that said, it really isn't any worse than any other magazine put out by a parent company trying to push their products (like a 'Nintendo Power') and $6 these days for a full-color glossy magazine of that size is pretty much standard.

Despite the fact that I like it much, much less than previous years I continue to buy it the same reason I occasionally buy video game magazines even though I can go online and see all the video game preview/reviews I want: It's nice to have something to hold in your hands and read about your favorite hobbies.

Once upon a time, Nintendo Power was a great magazine. But I haven't really read it since the SNES/GENNY days.

I still remember when they had a huge review of Tactics Ogre, which was never released in the US on the SNES (was ported to the PSX some years later, however).

yakface wrote:

Although it has, for a very, very long time now, been a glorified advertisement for Games Workshop products, in years past it still felt as though it was written by gamers passionate about the hobby and it covered a wide spectrum of different GW games, and article types (including new rules for their games) so most issues had at least a little something for everyone.

For the most part now, all the 'personality' has been stripped out of the magazine and you often don't even know who is writing an article you are reading. The magazine editorial is even written in a fictional tone (by the 'White Dwarf') so you really don't get a sense that this is a magazine written by anyone with any goals or passion.

Amen! Yak, you should write a letter to Jervis. (the last hint of personality left in it)

What I am missing the most is the reader's armies! Battle reports used to be genunly cool, with studio members' and readers' armies and that to me was the best part of the magazine. Every year or so WD made a point to have more of both (reader's armies and battle reports) because the readers loved those things the most. And what do we get now...

migsula wrote:

yakface wrote:

Although it has, for a very, very long time now, been a glorified advertisement for Games Workshop products, in years past it still felt as though it was written by gamers passionate about the hobby and it covered a wide spectrum of different GW games, and article types (including new rules for their games) so most issues had at least a little something for everyone.

For the most part now, all the 'personality' has been stripped out of the magazine and you often don't even know who is writing an article you are reading. The magazine editorial is even written in a fictional tone (by the 'White Dwarf') so you really don't get a sense that this is a magazine written by anyone with any goals or passion.

Amen! Yak, you should write a letter to Jervis. (the last hint of personality left in it)

What I am missing the most is the reader's armies! Battle reports used to be genunly cool, with studio members' and readers' armies and that to me was the best part of the magazine. Every year or so WD made a point to have more of both (reader's armies and battle reports) because the readers loved those things the most. And what do we get now...

A LotR mag with wh40k and whfb between advertisement?

We should ALL write to jervis if anything is in need of improvement.

We have it at 5,95 € . Austria pays 6,70€
I hope they turn to wh4ok the next months to come.

I'd love to see Yak write to em. They did credit him on the FAQs they're putting out now, so I'd say the obviously value his opinion.

About two or three years ago, I called to see how much a subscription to White Dwarf was. I let my subscriptions lapse in the late 90's, and the sticker shock...er, shocked me. I remembered paying $24 a year (or some such number) and the $60 a year price was way too steep for what you get.

It's not a lack of earning power on my part, it's the fact that it's not a good bang for my buck. I don't have a problem spending a lot of money on something (my current computer ran me about $1800), but I need to get a good value for it. I get MUCH better content from Dakka, and that's only one of many Warhammer forums available.

Phryxis wrote:I don't really get why people complain about how expensive WD is. If you can't afford $6 a month for something to read when you're in the can, isn't that more of a commentary on your lack of earning power than it is on the publishers of WD?

"I'm poor, therefore you suck!"

Really?

I actually find this comment ill thought-out and a little offensive. I don't earn a huge salary some somehow I'm inferior? Nice. I don't think you have to be poor to want value for money, and being a student, my budget isn't huge, but I'd still like to read a good magazine. I don't think your sneering attitude is fair, just or appropriate.

I'm going to jump on the "Yak Should Send a Letter to Jervis" bandwagon.

Yak's obviously got some serious pull at GW now, so, it might actually help!

Iorek wrote:About two or three years ago, I called to see how much a subscription to White Dwarf was. I let my subscriptions lapse in the late 90's, and the sticker shock...er, shocked me. I remembered paying $24 a year (or some such number) and the $60 a year price was way too steep for what you get.

It's not a lack of earning power on my part, it's the fact that it's not a good bang for my buck.

Normally, magazine subscriptions provide a substantial discount to the subscriber. Like 50%. Or higher.

So if WD is $6 on the cover, the 1-year subscription should be less than $40. With a "bonus" thrown in. Not $60+.

Greebynog wrote:

Phryxis wrote:I don't really get why people complain about how expensive WD is. If you can't afford $6 a month for something to read when you're in the can, isn't that more of a commentary on your lack of earning power than it is on the publishers of WD?

"I'm poor, therefore you suck!"

Really?

I actually find this comment ill thought-out and a little offensive. I don't earn a huge salary some somehow I'm inferior? Nice. I don't think you have to be poor to want value for money, and being a student, my budget isn't huge, but I'd still like to read a good magazine. I don't think your sneering attitude is fair, just or appropriate.

What happened to the thick-skinned Dakka I used to know? Year ago, Phryxis' comment would have been returned in kind. "You're proud you can afford to buy a POS magazine every month!? Those $6 would have better spent on old cheese, you idiot!"

Something like that. But "It's offensive"? Come on!

I was merely tryiing to express my point without resorting to churlish mud-slinging, but, what the hell.

Phryxis, I suggest you use your superior earning power to purchase the largest, most viciously spiked cactus you can find, and insert it into the rectum you are so clearly talking out of.

Better?

Alpharius wrote:

George Spiggott wrote:

Alpharius wrote:inconceivable!

This word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

No, it does actually.

Especially if you think about it.

Did you see that? It was huge and just flew over your head! WHOOSH


Bring back Necromunda and Epic battle reports.

Greebynog wrote:I was merely tryiing to express my point without resorting to churlish mud-slinging, but, what the hell.

Phryxis, I suggest you use your superior earning power to purchase the largest, most viciously spiked cactus you can find, and insert it into the rectum you are so clearly talking out of.

Better?

Much. Thank you.

Yakface said it well. The mag is not what it once was. A fact that I had pushed to the back of my mind for the most part. I miss articles by Nigel Stilman (I know that is not spelled correctly).

If you used to read Citadel Journal and still think the current White Dwarf is still good please raise your hand. Just take those five little digits and shove em toward the sky.

Phryxis wrote:I don't really get why people complain about how expensive WD is. If you can't afford $6 a month for something to read when you're in the can, isn't that more of a commentary on your lack of earning power than it is on the publishers of WD?

"I'm poor, therefore you suck!"

Really?

I personally don't feel the need to flush my hard-earned money down the tiolet, regardless of how little the amount may be.

$6/issue x 12mos. = $72/year

Depending on your army, $72 is about 2-3 units. I'd rather invest my cash is somethign I can actually use, rather than a bunch of mass-produced pretty pictures. But, to each his own.

You must be the SPENDSPENDSPEND-type that the US economy loves so.

I stoped getting WD long time ago because internet stuff, like black gobbo had already nice hobby related stuff... Although WD is a nice packed catalogue, you can find it all online, so really no point on spending the money.
I could consider getting them if price wise they were about 2 or 3 euros top... or if editorial was a bit more relevant.

For some years I got rackham splendid cry havocs mag but unfortunatly it was discontinued and replaced by a poor newsletter...
So no hobby mags for me lately.

Thumbs up for a yakface letter and lets hope more interesting bits of hobby get covered on new WD.

About what time in the month do US subscribers receive their White Dwarves?

It would be great if they started reviving some of the specialist games in WD magazines, they wouldn't have to do full rewrites or updates but little mordheim articles or new space hulk stuff would be great and I don't think it would be very time intensive, but I doubt that will happen and until stuff like that does happen I will remain firm on my not buying WD stance.

At the Developers Open Day in UK today this was evidently attributed to Rick Priestly:

http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148115&page=6

WD - All WD'sc are now centrally controlled from Lenton to prevent as Rick put it 'anarchy!' They are quite aay of the lack of hobby content in the mag and are looking to remedy this.

Interesting thing was how vocal Rick P. was re; GW / WD policy - he seemed very hacked off at the direction WD had / is taking, and that now the design studio had more control over Wd, he'd like to see more rules based stuff in there... - in fact, there was projec the nearly mentioned, but stopped short after a glare from Tim....

And there was word recently that GWCan was being absorbed by GWUS. Don't know if that means your "even more horrible than ours" WD will change but that in conjunction with what Priestly said may give you Cannucks hope yet.

Anyone notice the tiny sentence that said a free Terminator and Nob with issue 345?

the Canadian and American (and UK) White Dwarf have been near identical for over a year now.
I got the UK issue last June, and with the exception of the rogue trader and store listings, prices, and 1 page of Canadian events, they were identical

I don't get WD anymore, I used to all the time. Wasn't the money or the content, was more like a lack of time to really check it out. I always have some new codex or army book or new game rulebook or whatever next to the potty and when I'm there I only ready a couple of pages at a time.. rarely have time to just sit and read at home. I keep meaning to subscribe though, but now I'm between houses so maybe after I finish moving...

Beans will do the trick Necros, eat some and in no time you will manage to read full encyclopedias on the potty.

Ahtman wrote:

Alpharius wrote:

George Spiggott wrote:

Alpharius wrote:inconceivable!

This word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

No, it does actually.

Especially if you think about it.

Did you see that? It was huge and just flew over your head! WHOOSH


Bring back Necromunda and Epic battle reports.

Er, not actually.

Aren't you a bit amazed that a company like GW (a hobby leader) has let WD come to this?

Apparently Rick Priestly is.

Did you see that?

You just flew into a windshield. SPLAAAAT

WD isn't worth what you pay, unless you are really into it. Picture layouts etc. Especially since they release stuff like Blood Angel list as PDF.

back again, have now read (most) of it. First repsonses to some comments...Compared to WDs of recent it's very good. Compared to 5 years ago, it's equal, 10 years ago, why am i paying this? It's not that I'm poor are a low earner (although on a v tight budget) I'd rather spend 50% more and buy one of the novels, that lasts me so much lnger than the mag timevscost wise.

If they still produced the citadel journal i'd buy it rather than wd.
Speacialist games - understand the reason for dropping them, to make space for betetr articles....can we have the better articles now please? Also is it me or were the speacialist aricles alsways far better with tactics, new rules and GOOD modelling articles?

Jervis - he's always saying to write to him...but never comments on letters (as far as I have spotted, maybe he has but not put much emphasis on them...) Might write in myself too! Lead by example etc....

GW if you're reading this I WANT THW READERS ARMY ARTICLES BACK

ON TO THE MAG (GW staff have not yet recieved it, they hadn't got a clue what's in it. I questioned them about a small coment, they didn't seem to have any clue (unusual, they're pretty hot on stuff usually in bham) can't find the pase at the mo, but somewhere I'm sure it said there are two new 40k expansions planned, ones obviously planet fall, the other? Staff could only assume apoc reload, but didn't seem to know about dropzone or whatever it's called.

History of the game is surprisingly interesting, considering I've read it several times before in differnt issues.

Battle report with new rules - looks promising, I'll make the change personally. They keep saying they want to remove the 'abstract' bit, but as far as i can tell cover save from troops, but if you make it the troops aren't hit giving the cover....logically it doesn't work in my head, help anyone? Don't really mind though.

Interesting rule I've not spotted talked about on here much, now when you scatter, you take away the firers bs, so marine scatters less than IG. At least for ordanace anyway.

In response to 'is the imperium screwd?' thread - the answers here and it's a big fat YES. With the new game instead of building up the past history, they say now the HH books are out etc, they want to build up current events, and imperial types are calling it 'the end times'. Ther's a 'current' time line of events from the past 250 years, ending with...

999.m41 Tech Priests of the Adeptus Mechanicus discover failures in the mechanisms of the Golden Throne that are far beyond their ability to repair Everyone wave bye bye! Wonder where they'll go with it next (in 10 or so real years)

Also has the usual beginers paintingand also a how to article on building a terrian board, however it's almost as bland and devoid of decent detail as many other articles recently. It does show a very impressive ruined cathedral though.

A nice touch - inside front cover, shows a photo of a battle like in the old days.

Different editor, other guys on hols or somehing, Mark Latham. Maybe the improvemtns cus there's new 40K, maybe because of different Editor. Will wait a moneth or so and see.

Sorry, unable to get pics up (weekend and out of office next week). It's worth buying for once, however if it was mor than £4 it'd still be a no. As an aside I've started reading old copies again from years ago, they're far mre entertaining, show much better conversions and readers articles and explain how player play/collect rather than what they simply do during a game. It's like I've told the volutnters that work for me, reports/articles shouldn't be diary accounts, but should pick up on just a couple of points and explain the hows and why, not the what's. I feel this could be where WD is going wrong. Too much emphasis on 'what's' new and beginers, rather than why. This issue has more why, and I think it's above the current standard. Keep it going Mark!

covenant84 wrote:

999.m41 Tech Priests of the Adeptus Mechanicus discover failures in the mechanisms of the Golden Throne that are far beyond their ability to repair Everyone wave bye bye! Wonder where they'll go with it next (in 10 or so real years)

Um, nowhere?

We've been pretty much living in the "End Times" for, well, a long time.

The only new bit here is the "failures in the mechanisms of the Golden Throne that are far beyond their ability to repair".

What exactly that means is, of course, purposely vague.

Also, if is far beyond their means to repair, it might be far beyond their means to diagnose properly too.

For all we know, the "internal toilet paper roll empty in 5000 years" indicator light might be what's flashing red.

ha ha, nice giggle at that!

We have been in the end times but the impression they give is that the end is now very near. it's also got 801.m41 An unprecedented flicker in the astronomican throws thousands of ships of course, dooming them to destruction in the depths of the Warp. Also hints of more Necrons awakening (take it necrons are actually getting a nice shiny codex revamp in the next few years, along with space Wolves and Dark Eldar).

999.m41 the light of the astronomican grows dimemr. Contact is lost with Ultima Macharia, and is intermittent at best with Macragge and Cypra Mundi. I'm not too hot on the current happenings, is this already common knowledge and they're just emphasing it more, or is it 'new' bits?

@ covenant84:
don't hesitate to write to jervis. When i did,main answer was "has read,but no time to answer all" ,but sometimes
you get handwritten adds to this standard mail by those you've addressed it to.

The end of times thing is naturally overstated. One has to be doubtful that there will ver be background information telling us that the apocalypse has come and there is no Imperium any more, so no need to keep playing...

The failure in the Golden Throne will mean that it is predicted that it can only function for another hundred years or so. Plenty of time to maintain the status quo in other words.

Moreover, even if they do decide that the Emperor's mortal body dies, they will just go back to the old Star Child thing and say he has been freed from his body to become a full God.

They ain't going to do away with the Imperium at any rate.

covenant84 wrote:In response to 'is the imperium screwd?' thread - the answers here and it's a big fat YES. With the new game instead of building up the past history, they say now the HH books are out etc, they want to build up current events, and imperial types are calling it 'the end times'.

Uh, oh. I hope the "Lord of the End Times" Archaeon doesn't show up as a Chaos Lord and wages a Summer-long campaign that winds up doing nothing; again.

Alpharius - Its completely 'Inconceivable!' that you have obviously not watched the Princess Bride.
Then you'd understand what George Spiggott and Ahtman are on about.

Hang your head in shame, sir.....

Chimera_Calvin wrote:Alpharius - Its completely 'Inconceivable!' that you have obviously not watched the Princess Bride.
Then you'd understand what George Spiggott and Ahtman are on about.

Hang your head in shame, sir.....

I was going to be more subtle, but yes. Say that line out loud with a Spanish accent while picturing Mandy Patinkin to get the full effect

Wouldn't the full effect be Wallace Shawn saying the line?

Since he said it in the movie and all

I've seen it, and perhaps I was a tad snipy in reply, but, my point is that it IS pretty sad that GW let WD get to where it is.

Apparently they are aware of it, finally, and they are (allegedly) going to do something about it.

(By the way, the above was typed using six fingers.)

(On one hand.)

Thats a believe it when I see it statement. We were promised the same thing about FAQs etc. for years. Unless there is massive improvement my WD days will continue to be behind me.

Phryxis wrote:I don't really get why people complain about how expensive WD is. If you can't afford $6 a month for something to read when you're in the can, isn't that more of a commentary on your lack of earning power than it is on the publishers of WD?

"I'm poor, therefore you suck!"

Really?

loved that post, thank you - its so true

1hadhq wrote:@ covenant84:
don't hesitate to write to jervis. When i did,main answer was "has read,but no time to answer all" ,but sometimes
you get handwritten adds to this standard mail by those you've addressed it to.

Jervis used to answer any and all emials and he did it very quickly and very clearly. Now, to be honest, I am not sure he can.. I imagine that 10 years ago he got a few hundred emails.. not he probably gets that many a day.. Not trying to be negative, but the guy is only human.. maybe he needs a few servitors to scan the emails for him.. lol

I still have a subscription to White Dwarf, some if it I enjoy...some not so much.

What I really miss is that "Echoes from the Warp" (I think that is what it was called) section with the Q&A.

jfrazell wrote:Thats a believe it when I see it statement. We were promised the same thing about FAQs etc. for years. Unless there is massive improvement my WD days will continue to be behind me.

Shhhh, nobody tell jfrazell that GW recently started to give us FAQs too. Then again, I am on the Doubting Thomas side of the fence with regards to WD at the moment. I know they can do it, but will they? I hope so, I was silly enough to get the super ultra cheap 3 year subscription a few months back.

temprus wrote:

jfrazell wrote:Thats a believe it when I see it statement. We were promised the same thing about FAQs etc. for years. Unless there is massive improvement my WD days will continue to be behind me.

Shhhh, nobody tell jfrazell that GW recently started to give us FAQs too. Then again, I am on the Doubting Thomas side of the fence with regards to WD at the moment. I know they can do it, but will they? I hope so, I was silly enough to get the super ultra cheap 3 year subscription a few months back.

Same here, and if I hang my head in shame for anything, it might just be for that!

Curses, Alpharius had me fooled!!!!

But there is one thing he doesn't know.....

....I....

....am left handed!!!



Back on topic, I like some of the rumours I've been hearing about WD. It sounds like some of the hoary old vets (Priestley, I'm looking at you) have woken up to the fact that some of the newer, younger guys in the company don't have a clue how to fit substance in with the style.
WD is very slick, but its been seriously lacking in content for ages now (unless you play LotR, which I don't). Hopefully, they'll get their act together now...

Before there are any User Post Alerts:

Hoary: adj. Grey or white with age, often referring to hair. See also: Hoarfrost.

two_heads_talking wrote:

1hadhq wrote:@ covenant84:
don't hesitate to write to jervis. When i did,main answer was "has read,but no time to answer all" ,but sometimes
you get handwritten adds to this standard mail by those you've addressed it to.

Jervis used to answer any and all emails and he did it very quickly and very clearly. Now, to be honest, I am not sure he can.. I imagine that 10 years ago he got a few hundred emails.. not he probably gets that many a day.. Not trying to be negative, but the guy is only human.. maybe he needs a few servitors to scan the emails for him.. lol

Never e-mailed, used "pen-and-paper". Yes got answered everytime.
E-mails only distract, to massive numbers today,but "real" mail gets interest by first thought,than spelled

Iorek - the new star of dictionary corner

All you non suscribers...you don't know what you're missing!
I mean theres a page long artilce/advert about the new GW gaming mat!
Thats right a green tablecloth!
A green tablecloth that costs £18!!!!!!

G_Model101 wrote:All you non suscribers...you don't know what you're missing!
I mean theres a page long artilce/advert about the new GW gaming mat!
Thats right a green tablecloth!
A green tablecloth that costs £18!!!!!!

Uh wow, i better go right now, buy and check the german WD if its in there as well.

Hopefully for at least 20 € !!!!!!!!

Flachzange wrote:

G_Model101 wrote:All you non suscribers...you don't know what you're missing!
I mean theres a page long artilce/advert about the new GW gaming mat!
Thats right a green tablecloth!
A green tablecloth that costs £18!!!!!!

Uh wow, i better go right now, buy and check the german WD if its in there as well.

Hopefully for at least 20 € !!!!!!!!

Were lucky its 25€ ! ONLY 2 5 €

I love the WD and have not missed one for a few years. i dont see why there some much hate for a fine product, although i do understand that some people claim there is a lack of content or too pricey. i would like to see more little free bees in the WD

Its mainly because the magazine has deteriorated recently. It was a great source for hobby information, yet now it is more like a brochure advertising GW's products. However, they have promised to turn this around.

When WD went global thats when the music died, all the army profiles disappeard, same with conversion corner, and pretty much what blinky just said too

Phryxis wrote:I don't really get why people complain about how expensive WD is. If you can't afford $6 a month for something to read when you're in the can, isn't that more of a commentary on your lack of earning power than it is on the publishers of WD?

"I'm poor, therefore you suck!"

Really?

I could be a millionaire and I wouldn't buy it. There's no content to make it worth the time to sit down with it. Regardless of your earnings and how much money you have, many people believe in getting 'value for money'.

I flick through WD each month but find nothing to tempt me, what I was amazed at is how spread out everything has become. For a battle report the army lists were spread over a few pages with a lot of white space between each chunk of words detailing the various units. A few years ago the whole army list would have been crammed onto a page making more room elsewhere articles. The painting articles and 'eavy metal sections often seem to use the same old photos that are in the catalog or available online, it's smacks of padding with minimal effort. The volume of material has gone down even if the page count has remained the same, I bought WD on and off and have numerous back issues ranging to a collection spanning #100-300.

The difference? Well those older issues took longer to read, and I've re-read them and can think of many memorable articles. Of the later stuff, nah, they took less time to read and have little worth going back to. What happened to the days when they'd supply plans and tell you how to build a vehicle for your orks from card? hell they even gave full rules and plans to make a Baneblade! Or when they had new rules for you to use detailing a specific marine chapter or vehicle? When did they last support a Specialist game giving you battle reports, new rules for equipment and events tables on which to roll as they did with Gorkamorka? What about the free "bar-room-brawl" game that they did in the magazine to coincide with Gorkamorka with pull out counters and a floorplan, or the Full Tilt jousting game with card scenery - for a game to play in itself? Or when they went mad giving away card buildings with every issue? Or the individual painting articles featuring players and shop staff armies from around the globe? Or you know, a few pages of background fluff?

yakface wrote:The issue for most people stems from the fact that White Dwarf used to be a very different magazine from what it is now and the people who 'hate' it now are those that liked the magazine the way it was before.

True, but the criticism is fair. And people complained to the extent the GW shut down the White Dwarf section on their own forum just to silence dissent. They asked for advice on improving the magazine, and to be fair several people gave them calm and considered advice. But clearly it wasn't what the people high up wanted in the magazine, there was no quick fix to satisfy customers and as they were not going to amend the magazine in light of common criticism they closed down discussion.

The magazine today is just dull.

Yeah, even though I used to be a big WD fan, I'm now counted among the haters. Once upon a time, there used to be usable content in WD. In fact, there's a direct relationship to the length of time WD has been printed and the decline of usable material in it. Anymore, anything creative and interesting that you could get from WD you can get online either in a forum like Dakka or from the so-called "hobby" articles on GW's site itself (not that those articles are incredible pearls or anything, I'm just saying.) WDs these days are just shiny pics of new minis with the subtext of "Buy me! Buy me!"

had a quick flick through a 2nd time - point - articles are mainly one read only ones now. Old mags, can read again, current ones, nothing new.

With the whole 'we're going to make it more like the old days' there's a comment that next issue they're bringing back a tale of 4 gamers, but for 40K. YES!!!! just hope they do a better job of it than with the last attempt to resurrect the article. Will give JErvis a snail mail letter at some point soon and let you know if i get a response.

the best thing i seen is on page 37 of the us edition in the last paragraph from rick priestly " its about time the DARK ELDAR, space wolves, and A FEW OTHERS had THEIR turn in the spotlight again." great to hear.....

1hadhq wrote:

Flachzange wrote:

G_Model101 wrote:All you non suscribers...you don't know what you're missing!
I mean theres a page long artilce/advert about the new GW gaming mat!
Thats right a green tablecloth!
A green tablecloth that costs £18!!!!!!

Uh wow, i better go right now, buy and check the german WD if its in there as well.

Hopefully for at least 20 € !!!!!!!!

Were lucky its 25€ ! ONLY 2 5 €

WD UK says €27,5 but the website says €30,-

Funny enough the UK WD wants to restart "a tale of four gamers" next month for 40k, something that was only good fun in its original form. The fantasy retry was a failure at trying to capture the feel of the original article and I have a feeling that the 40k series will likewise.

We need Fat Bloke at the helm again! Not Owen Reese or ahem sorry, the White Dwarf.

BrookM wrote:Funny enough the UK WD wants to restart "a tale of four gamers" next month for 40k, something that was only good fun in its original form. The fantasy retry was a failure at trying to capture the feel of the original article and I have a feeling that the 40k series will likewise.

We need Fat Bloke at the helm again! Not Owen Reese or ahem sorry, the White Dwarf.

I remember when Fat Bloke used to spend his extra money on bacon buddies....

out of curiosity what happened to fat bloke? I quite enjoyed some of the articles he made.

Has anyone mentioned the fact that WD takes up a lot of shelf space? That's one reason (among many of the legitimate reasons already mentioned) that I don't buy it regularly. I don't even buy it occasionally (but that's because it's not a very good magazine). I flick through it when I see it but never go further than that.

two_heads_talking wrote:

Jervis used to answer any and all emials and he did it very quickly and very clearly. Now, to be honest, I am not sure he can.. I imagine that 10 years ago he got a few hundred emails.. not he probably gets that many a day.. Not trying to be negative, but the guy is only human.. maybe he needs a few servitors to scan the emails for him.. lol

WD july 08 page 82 standardbearer:
Quote Jervis: " I have no servitor squad to scan my e-mails, read them myself!"

An answer to you,I suppose?

NAVARRO wrote:out of curiosity what happened to fat bloke? I quite enjoyed some of the articles he made.

He's in GW accounting now if his last editorial is to be believed.

NAVARRO wrote:out of curiosity what happened to fat bloke? I quite enjoyed some of the articles he made.

He's making plastic historical miniatures with John Stallard for Warlord Games.

I'm a little behind, but on p. 35 it says under good 'ol Gav's pic that he's left the company to become a freebooter? I'm guessing that was a few months ago? Damn! He so needed a proper rochambo-ing for the end of the SoC.

No doubt he did!

Archaon (and Gav!) really needed to be "gifted" into Spawndom after that fiasco...

Well, this month they did away with the Editorial by the "White Dwarf" and actually had the editor do it (thank god!).

Also, they are bringing back Tale of Four Gamers so that's a step in the right direction as the previous one was one of the best WD features ever.

Overall, this WD was much better than previous ones. I liked the commentary with the 4 veteran game designers and the battle report was pretty good (they gave the caveat up front that the armies were chosen to show off the new rules).

Hopefully this is a sign of good things to come.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Squig_herder wrote:I would like to see more little free bees in the WD

.. to take the sting out of paying for it you mean ?


.. sorry.

Gitkikka wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:out of curiosity what happened to fat bloke? I quite enjoyed some of the articles he made.

He's making plastic historical miniatures with John Stallard for Warlord Games.

I seem to recall he even posted on Warseer about his stuff, which I found a nice touch.

The magazine is $6, the average price for a magazine of its size. The content is basic level stuff, targeting the beginner hobbiest. If you want something more, then look else where. It is not unlike your run of the mill cooking or lifestyle magazine. Simple layout of uncomplicated articles. Yes, I am tired of the excess of LoTR content, but what are you going to do?

What you could do is submit well written articles for publications. A year or two back, WD solicited community written articles. They may still do that. So, if you think you have the chops, go for it.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Iorek wrote:About two or three years ago, I called to see how much a subscription to White Dwarf was. I let my subscriptions lapse in the late 90's, and the sticker shock...er, shocked me. I remembered paying $24 a year (or some such number) and the $60 a year price was way too steep for what you get.

It's not a lack of earning power on my part, it's the fact that it's not a good bang for my buck.

Normally, magazine subscriptions provide a substantial discount to the subscriber. Like 50%. Or higher.

So if WD is $6 on the cover, the 1-year subscription should be less than $40. With a "bonus" thrown in. Not $60+.

If GW did discount their subscription rate, over the magazine rack rate, they would see their sales increase, even if ever so slightly. I know I would go back to getting them regularly if their was a cheaper subscription rate.

Although I have been getting the White Dwarf back when 75 dollars was the going rate for a year. But that was because it was still a UK magazine and the shipping rates were ludicrous.

KurgantheLurker wrote:At the Developers Open Day in UK today this was evidently attributed to Rick Priestly:

http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148115&page=6

WD - All WD'sc are now centrally controlled from Lenton to prevent as Rick put it 'anarchy!' They are quite aay of the lack of hobby content in the mag and are looking to remedy this.

Interesting thing was how vocal Rick P. was re; GW / WD policy - he seemed very hacked off at the direction WD had / is taking, and that now the design studio had more control over Wd, he'd like to see more rules based stuff in there... - in fact, there was projec the nearly mentioned, but stopped short after a glare from Tim....

And there was word recently that GWCan was being absorbed by GWUS. Don't know if that means your "even more horrible than ours" WD will change but that in conjunction with what Priestly said may give you Cannucks hope yet.

The part about Rick P. being hacked off has been proved to be nothing more than heresay.. It's just rumor ...

Ozymandias wrote:Well, this month they did away with the Editorial by the "White Dwarf" and actually had the editor do it (thank god!).

Also, they are bringing back Tale of Four Gamers so that's a step in the right direction as the previous one was one of the best WD features ever.

Overall, this WD was much better than previous ones. I liked the commentary with the 4 veteran game designers and the battle report was pretty good (they gave the caveat up front that the armies were chosen to show off the new rules).

Hopefully this is a sign of good things to come.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

I don't know if anyone else noticed or commented on this, but in that battle report for 5E.. the Space Marines had a Terminator Squad with 2 Assault Cannons. I HOPE this means that they can continue to have 2 in whatever new codex arrives for the Emperor's Boyz..

anyone else notice this, or think much of it? Am I hoping too much?

The space marine list was built from the current marine codex mate, as the new marine codex isn't out yet remember ? You'll note they also have a few odd squad sizes and at least 1 5 mans quad with a alscannon if memory serves.

Squig_herder wrote:I love the WD and have not missed one for a few years. i dont see why there some much hate for a fine product, although i do understand that some people claim there is a lack of content or too pricey. i would like to see more little free bees in the WD

First of all, it has always been an ad rag. Always. Even in its earliest days it was an ad rag, but atleast the content was more than merely an ad.

I still have very early issues of white dwarf where they sold more than just GW stuff. They had gammaworld scenarios, runequest scenarios, D&D scenarios, etc. and the interspersed advertisements from various game companies trying to offer a product, including citadel in its early days.

Fast forward to a time when GW focused solely on their own products.

While still an ad rag it still had usable content.

Rules for Jet bike duels
Space hulk tiles and scenarios
creature feature
etc.
The list goes on.

That content is now largely gone, if not completely. Now you get an occasional fluff blurb, a page of painted models to drool over, and the rest is Jervis pontificating about how we should play the game, and advertisements for the flavor of the month. And maybe, just maybe a BA codex that they are just going to post online for free anyways.

This hardly seems like value to most people who want to read the magazine. Not only can they not be bothered to read it anymore, but feel GW should be paying us for the august privilege of reading their periodical, or 'fine product' as you put it.

I don't care if it costs 25 cents for an issue, its still to much to pay to be advertised to. Most companies actually pay for advertising. Instead, GW expects its consumers to line up and pay to be advertised to.

Judging by what Priestly has remarked on, it seems they realize that this tactic wont pass the snuff anymore and they have to add something to coax the GW consumer to again pay for their advertisements.

This is why WD is universally considered a bad buy.

[edit]

However, in GW's defense, the internet has a large portion to be blamed for the reduction in quality regarding the content of WD.

Prior to the internet boom, to get any discussion about GW products, consumer relied upon WD for such. Now that we have discussion forums, and various other sites devoted to the hobby, the role of WD is much reduced.

That still didn't prevent actual content being included in WD though during that time however.

It seems once Andy Chambers left, the WD content pretty much fizzled to non existence.

Dont believe me? Compare issues pre2003 with what we get now and you will see an obvious difference.

Some of the bet hobby articles I've seen of recent years were on the Black Gobbo, I couldn't understand why they were spending money on that and not using it for the magazine, some of it was great, conversions, scratchbuilding and terrain articles.

Then they took the inexplicable step of getting rid of black gobbo, and wiped the archive as though to spite people who may want to look at it.

It's all run by the bean counters now, whoever is editing the magazine probably hasn't got the editorial control of years gone by so I don't think the blame entirely lies with Owen Reese or whoever is 'running' it today.

Write in your articles if you like, but they don't publish their own hobby material like they used to, so unsolicited mail will end up unwanted in a slush pile somewhere.

Hellfury wrote:
However, in GW's defense, the internet has a large portion to be blamed for the reduction in quality regarding the content of WD.

Prior to the internet boom, to get any discussion about GW products, consumer relied upon WD for such. Now that we have discussion forums, and various other sites devoted to the hobby, the role of WD is much reduced.

That still didn't prevent actual content being included in WD though during that time however.
.

Thats the big challenge for all traditional paper mags these days, to lure people out of the internet to actually by them... that can only be achieved with high quality and exclusive contents.
Publicity wise GW is completly OFF the mark and if by flooding their mag with only publicity is their idea of making good publicity then they know very little about the subject... Actually most companies that do their own inside publicity only have a distorted prespective of what their potential costumers want... Thats why there are publicity agencies!!!

Just imagine a high quality mag packed with black gobbo kind of articles, golden demons exaustive cover, battle reports infinity style, illustrations and yes some publicity... Who wouldnt get this? even just modellers/painters and gamers of other systems and areas would embrace it.
If you ask me its a ignored chance to boost the interest of people towards GW.

Will the free models be in the magazines on the rack, or only for subscribers? I might pick up that issue if I can get it in the store....

My LGS has a row of boxes of old gaming mags on the back wall that are being sold off for 25 cents each. I've gotten a good dozen or so old White Dwarfs, and really, really enjoyed them. The army profiles, conversion corners, rules ideas, and battle reports were nice enough that I walked back into the store a few days later looking to give WD another chance. Well, let's just say I didn't walk out of the store with the new WD, but paid another 50 cents for some more back issues after comparing the content. White Dwarf is very anemic these days.

here's the letetr I'm sending to Jervis. haven't put loads of points in due to the length, and I don't intend to insult or offend anyone anywhere with it. If you don't agree that's fine, we're all entitled to our opinions.

edit - I have checked the spellings before I sent it, please ignore mistakes in this one!

Dear Jervis.

Standard Bearer

This is my first letter which I have written to WD (or GW!) since starting the hobby many many years ago now, and I’ve put it on paper in the hope that it will reach you rather than getting lost with one of your servitors. The reason for writing will become clear in a minute. I’m sorry this letter may seem a little long, but I sincerely hope that you have the time to read it before it reaches the bin/crack of doom, whatever you have sitting by your desk.

For the past few months now I’ve been a member of a 40K forum on the internet, and have both expressed my disappointment and supported many of the things which Games Workshop does. As I’m sure you know there’s a lot of people on there who spend most of their time moaning about prices, quality and about 40,000 other things (awful pun – White Dwarf) One of the issues which generally gets bashed around with very little support is the content of White Dwarf. I have to admit that I am one of those customers who in recent years is constantly disappointed with the magazine. Yes I still get it, and that may make me stupid if I don’t like it, but it is the only Warhammer magazine easily available, giving little choice. However, unlike many, not all, of the ‘online community’ I decided to write to you instead of expecting you to check the forums and magic something up. After all this is a hobby, which we are involved in. It’s our hobby and so it should be us to suggest improvements and help it to move along, rather than asking GW to spoon feed us. Please don’t this letter as a rant from an unhappy customer, but as a letter from someone who is trying to at least suggest improvements, and do what they can. From my own professional job I know what it’s like to constantly receive complaints about everything without any useful suggestions.

With regards to White dwarf, many people I know who used to subscribe no longer do for many reasons, but on the whole it comes down to the content. White dwarf has become a nice clean modern magazine, which seems rather odd when you look at nearly any gamers modelling area, it’s usually far from clean, more of a messy pike of paint, tools and grey bits of plastic, with a wall tile thrown in for good measure. The point that I’m trying to make, and I’m sure many of the online folks will support me, is that White Dwarf is now a different magazine from the one us ‘older gamers’ (used VERY loosely!) ran home from school for. It now has more ‘wasted’ space than before, which could be filled up with side notes etc, around the main articles, in a similar way to how the new rules are explained in Julys issue.

Another gripe many of us have is the content of the articles. It’s nice to see how the ‘eavy metal team paint, but the style in which it is done makes the articles bland and doesn’t interest the more experienced gamer, we want to know they what’s and whys rather than the hows – why wash that bit? What else could be done/used? Why not use XXX technique. The current format is a basic step by step for someone who wants to paint their models the same colours as ‘eavy metal.

Also, lotrs seems to get the ‘best’ content with new scenarios, ideas, modelling tips, new rules/units and ways of playing etc. Can we have more for warhammer and 40K rather than the standard, this is the latest models, these are the bits, this is a battle report showing them winning and here’s a token something else. To many this is coming across as advertising rather than hobby info. We understand that GW is a business, but if articles inspired people to be more creative, they end up buying more anyway. I’m currently making an Adeptus Mechanicus army, with every model having some sort of small (or large) conversion, it may be small but it’s cost as much as a large army would anyway but adds a little something new to the experience. It’s nice to see that ‘A Tale of Four Gamers’ is making another comeback, and I know many of us are sat quite excited, but at the same time dreading that it will not match up to the original article as the last attempt failed to. The original is seen by many as one of if not THE BEST ARTICLE that WD ran for the last 20 or so years. It was exciting, showed how different people collect, game, model, paint. It gave a window into the hobby from someone else’s eye. This is the sort of stuff we want. We don’t expect the whole magazine to be crammed full with hobby stuff, we accept that you have to advertise and show of the latest stuff in a good light, but what we don’t like is when it’s at the expense of good quality hobby articles. In the same way, I always like the readers army articles, even though I was always disappointed that you couldn’t fit more of them into the magazine. However it’s now quite rare to show a ‘normal’ gamers army. Julys showed two from the tournament, which was nice, but didn’t say much about how or why they were made.

Personally I’m not keen on the tool box article either. I know it’s a bit petty and it’s usually only the one page, but most of the content could be expressed through other articles, saving that one page for something else in a magazine that’s got limited space. With that it would also be nice to see more detail on some of the terrain, which I must say in the past couple of years has been excellent! It would be nice to see more detail and a bit on how to make it. The cathedral and Vampire Castle come to mind. Not many gamers will be able to make these pieces, but could use the inspiration and instructions (and maybe even extra suggestions) to come up with their own scaled down versions. I know this was how I originally got hooked on terrain back in my school days, and our group had a fantastic snow scape board, complete with santas grotto, frosty the very dangerous snowman and a rampaging santa plus Christmas themed wargear for our annual ‘Battle for Santas Workshop’ game.

If part of the reason for this is lack or writing time, encourage more gamers to have a go at writing good articles. I would be more than happy to write an article on how and why I’m making my army plus the themed terrain I’ll be starting on in a month or so for it.

Any way, best of luck with the dice rolling, would love to hear from you, and look forward to a tale of 4 gamers!

Happy Gaming

Rob
If you wish to contact me, any of the following are great! (myself and a few others are keen to hear your take on this subject)

Mezmaron wrote:Will the free models be in the magazines on the rack, or only for subscribers? I might pick up that issue if I can get it in the store....

They will be there for everyone, just like the Skull Pass samples.

Howard A Treesong wrote:Some of the bet hobby articles I've seen of recent years were on the Black Gobbo, I couldn't understand why they were spending money on that and not using it for the magazine, some of it was great, conversions, scratchbuilding and terrain articles.

Because when you put a cool conversion on a website you can make direct links in the article that bring you right to the on-line store...

when i was in cali, the mag would come about a week after the east coast guys...now that i'm in alaska, the mag would come about 3 weeks after i saw the first reviews from others...my lgs here gets the mag around the last week of the month, which was about a week before mine would come in the mail...i didn't renew my sub. last year, 'cause i was sick of tradin' mine back to the shop for credit(as i would always buy it the day it came in)...
up here in fairbanks, it's better to go to the lgs(they do 20% off anyway)....though lately gw has been horrible about sendin' the mag out in good time...we never even got last month's issue!!! i've always loved my white dwarf, but they are really startin' to slip on givin' the customer some love...

cheers
jah

Ahh, WD it's been a long time now since I started (UK issue 166 was my first) and a long time since I stopped bothering with it. To me, it started going rapidly downhill when Jake Thornton left as Editor, and from what I've seen of newer iterations it really hasn't recovered any momentum. The hobby articles I like are mostly covered by Black Gobbo and other web based resources. I also have Dakka for news & rumours, so that helps.

What I really miss are the long form opinion articles from back in the day (Stillmania, the J files Chambers of the Horned Rat, etc.)

Man, I'm a crusty old fart.

Yes, what ever happened to Nigel Stillman? He always had nice articles on converting things with the minimum amount of skills and materials needed.

I have a reply (snail mail!)

Dear Rob,

I just wanted to drop you a quick line to thank you for your recent letter. Unfortunatly the number of letters I recieve means I can't reply personally to all of them, but I did want to let you know that I had recieved and read yours, and really appreciatedthat you took the time to write. Please don't hesitate to get in touch again; I read all of the mail I recieve and find it really helps to keep me in touch with the grass roots of the hobby

Sincerly
(signed)

PS. Unfortunatly I don't have time to respond to all ofthe points you make, but I will say that the content of WD is constantly evolving and changing over time. This is mainly because we usually have twice as much stuff that we'd like to put in the WD as will fit, and the changing balance of the content reflects on the prevailing opinion on what the mix should be like. So, just about the only thing you can be certain of is that WD will change over time, either one way or the other - it's like a pendulum that swings constantly back and forth.




so - just as helpful as the standard bearer column? Our opinion is valued but not taken into account? WD is written to fit the trend, which apparently is people who buy it as a catalogue, isn't that what the catalougues are for? I sure hope the pendulum comes back soon, it's either very big or on a very slow swing.......

anyone else have comments on the response?

Twice as much stuff, and like what.. a 4th of what it used to be in the magazine. Yuk :(

covenant84 wrote:I have a reply (snail mail!)

So, just about the only thing you can be certain of is that WD will change over time, either one way or the other - it's like a pendulum that swings constantly back and forth.

The irony meter broke after this particular comment.

The understatement meter broke too.

But hey, at least you DID get a response!

Um, what were you expecting to come of your letter?

"Crap, you are so right and we are so wrong, from now on we'll do it like the people want!"

Pigs have flown, so maaaaaaybe a tiny chance, like a snowflake in hell that something is going to happen.

I didn't actually expect anything in perticuler, but the reply seemed a bit cut and paste our standard reply sort of job to me. It's just a bit dissapointing I guess that they aknowledge how we feel but are unwillinging to do anything. Anyone fancy restarting the journal and saying u to WD? lol

Make sure to say "hello" to their lawyers at the same time!