Lord w/Veil + Res orb, attached to 19 Warriors.
Lord w/Res orb, attached to 19 Warriors.
3 Monoliths.

Nothing starts on the table.

You want to go second.

Turn 2, Monoliths start dropping.

They are incredibly hard to kill in 5E, because they have unlimited weapons (ok, impossible?).

Woo -10 on my D6...

More monoliths arrive. Some warriors might arrive.

Can't deploy? Ok, they come in next turn...

It might not seem like much, but this army doesn't actually fight you. :(

It drops on THEIR side of the board.

Any kind of shooting you have, they can pretty much ignore. By this I mean if you don't have lascannons or better, they ignore your shots.

The Warriors have res orbs to get up with, and a 3+ armor / 4+ cover save followed by a 4+ WBB and a 4+ WBB roll (thanks to the Monoliths)...damned annoying.

If you have decent assault, they teleport to a monolith on the other side of the board (or just veil to a quarter)...with 3 monoliths and a veil, well, ya got 4 uber assault units that can hang out near a monolith (and in the 'extra' quarter for the veil unit, if needed) waiting for warriors to show up and rapid fire you to death AND can beat down 20 necrons in CC? Yeah, me neither.

This army totally makes Demons cry, too...they drop after you do! lol

I immobilized one Monolith and killed 3 warriors.

The only army I have that can handle the Monoliths are my Tau, who even with large kroot squads can't beat Necrons in CC...so they teleport near me and blow my hammerheads up then move away.

SUCK.

The good news is, I learned a few things:

Monoliths cannot fire when they drop out of the sky.

So you have ONE turn to kill them before they open fire.

Who would have thought I'd want emp grenades on at least ONE unit? lol

Man it's a lame army. Who brings an army just to draw and watch the other guy roll dice and laugh? I mean really.

So Stelek, the point of this army is to frustrate the opponent and pull a draw... call it a Tournament buster & hope you don't catch its lotto number when your round comes up hmm?

Thanks for posting this nightmare!

I wanted to share my pain. Rolling dice and moving figs with no purpose...yeah, it's painful.

Luckily he's a friend so I was able to slap him upside the head afterwards...

You can only have 1 Res Orb in an army. If he was playing with 2, then he screwed you!!!

Silverwarrior88 wrote:You can only have 1 Res Orb in an army. If he was playing with 2, then he screwed you!!!

Since when?

edit: Dont have a Necron codex handy, but you can have 2 res orbs. Its the veil that is limited.

Where was the rule about the Gauss Flux projectors not being able to fire on the turn they Deep strike? Is it in a Necron FAQ?

He's right. I missed this one. On the turn a Deep Striking vehicle arrives, it counts as moving at Cruising Speed, which means it's not allowed to fire any weapons unless it's a Fast vehicle, which a Monolith is not. That really screws with my usual anti-Tau strategy...

Oh, and as I DO have my Codex handy, the Veil of Darkness, Nightmare Shroud (personally love this one), Solar Pulse, and Phase Shifter are all One Per Army, but the Resurrection Orb is not.

Otherwise, this really looks like my standard army, with the exception I rarely Deep Strike, except against Tau.

I love taking 25 wraithguard against necrons =).

If you want to make a armylist just to 'bug' your enemy..
use my tournament- BUG-list.

Broodlord with 5 cheap genestealers
3 tooled up zoantropes
And the rest: Tooled up rippers!!! make them as expensive as can be!

Try to get in CC with the broodlord and If the enemy kills a few genestealers, the game stops because you dont have any scoring units left.

Short game for your enemy... 8)

Aduro wrote:He's right. I missed this one. On the turn a Deep Striking vehicle arrives, it counts as moving at Cruising Speed, which means it's not allowed to fire any weapons unless it's a Fast vehicle, which a Monolith is not. That really screws with my usual anti-Tau strategy...

Otherwise, this really looks like my standard army, with the exception I rarely Deep Strike, except against Tau.

Monoliths are still nigh indestructible, even more so in 5E, so it isn't all bad.

I wouldn't drop near Tau though.

I can actually see someone equipping photon grenades...they aren't Eldar good, but they aren't completely worthless anymore.

obviously close combat armies would be able to destroy the monoliths. Carnifexes, ork warlords on bikes etc would be able to deal with them pretty easily. Obviously with tau you were out of luck.

It's hard but with those new CC rules a 20 man necron squad is rather easy to destroy due to their awful Ini. I loose almost all combats with them since 5th.
If your opponent ignores the monos and has some faster cc you might face the phase-out quite soon.

Incubi and Grotesques charge.

Win combat.

Auto-fallback.
Catch, run down squad, all dead.

One unit down.

Then you just have to work on the other. Or survive, and claim more objectives than them since they only have one unit to work with.

And both those units are in raiders. So you've either dropped down in or almost in assault range, or you're not shooting the raiders with much.

And heck I can take three units of grotesques if I like. And your monoliths are easy to hit in cc now with no skimmer bonus, so wyches could also spell some serious doom for them, very quickly.

Also, with more meltaguns coming to the fore in 5th, they can destroy the monoliths with even a glancing hit, they just need to roll a 6.

I don't think this is really as uber as it... seems? I wasn't very impressed reading it in the first place.

And oh man if only the old chaos codex was still in effect. Charge with a greater daemon, win, -2 to morale, pretty likely to kill. Oh well.

So your Incubi get into combat with the warrior units, how exactly?

Can you visualize how it works and explain it? I really need to know myself.

You do realize if the Necron player goes second, the earliest you can get into close combat with his units is your turn 4?

Think about it. Nothing to assault until turn 4.

Game can end turn 5.

Really think hard on how game-breaking that is.

Meltaguns can only glance a monolith. So yes, they need a 3, 6, 6...and anything else is pretty much a wash.

Monoliths get hit on a 4+, and yes all haywire grenades play havoc with them. So do wraith weapons.

The question is still, how do you deliver them into combat?

Now the next question is, in a valid tournament list--who brings Wyches along to hunt tanks AND gives them haywire grenades?

208 points for a kitted out Wych squad. Those 36 points per squad is...another squad. I don't see it happening, not when you have dark lances for everything else out there, and raider mobility + disintegrators and blasters for side shots. You can't game for monoliths and make your list a loser against everyone else.

However, all that said...if you have one unit with grenades (I'll just say it's probable to have ONE unit with them) how do you kill all 3 monoliths? Especially if you fail to kill it (quite possible) and die to it's return fire (or a warrior squad porting in and rapid firing you to death)?

By the way, if you didn't know this...a monolith covers objectives about 3" in every direction. Give it a whirl, it's entertaining.

In other words, I have alot of meltaguns (which DE don't have) and I have a single specialist tank hunting unit in my DE army (that has haywire grenades).

I can't kill this list without reworking my list to kill it...and then my list gets it's teeth kicked in by other lists.

200 points spent on haywire grenades makes for a weak DE list against people with no vehicles in their army, which is alot of armies.

Anyway, just my thoughts...it isn't easy to beat this by any means.

If you deepstrike your monolith on the objective, it's a tie anyway because your models aren't on it, either.

And I thought we were talking about casual play, where we could make "uber lists" to cancel this out.

I'm not concerned with seeing this at a tournament, whatsoever. A guy bringing this obviously doesn't want to win the tournament in overall.

The most fun part about your necron list, though, I think, would be firing all those warriors into a squad of oh, say, anything and just by number of wounds watching the squad, if it doesn't evaporate, lose all of its special weapons by failing their individual saves - so that while their army remains relatively intact, it quickly loses all hope of dealing with the monoliths and then they just cruise around destroying things.

As for the incubi in the raider getting into close combat with you - if the warriors are in range of the raider, I can pile out and be within 12" of you. Same with the grotesques. Also, whenever your monoliths land, anything fast in the army can zip around to where your portal is. If all the portals [only three, likely fewer] are covered when your necrons become available, they'll instantly die as you have noplace to put them. No chance to turn the monolith before they arrive, either. So really all I need are some reavers and you'll be forced to start dropping your monoliths 24" away from me. So during my first two turns I can move for the objectives. If you land on them, I'm going to have an easy time with blocking your exit with a raider or jetbikes. If you go further away, I may still be able to get them if you scatter too far close to me.

In fact any fast army can do this. Also, if your warriors and monolith become available at the same time, no warriors that turn - the monoliths need to be on the table at the time the warriors become ready.

And while many armies can't kill them, they can glance and immobilize the monoliths, possibly causing them to face disadvantageous angles, meaning if you teleport through them for self repair, you may not get any shots. And can 21 necrons even fit within 2" of the opening of a monolith? I don't think they can.

I think it's a neat trick. But can you imagine something like a guard army moving, then running to your portal and then immobilizing it? *turn 3 - both warrior units become available, and immediately die as they can't disembark, all because some silly guardsman was in the way*

You can try to land them wherever you want, but you'll still be subject to scatter rolls, etc. Impassible terrain also affects monoliths just as it would any other deepstriker, so keep that in mind too.

What impassable terrain?

I guess I'm just confused how you are running a guard army around.

I'm confused at most of what you are saying, actually.

Never seen someone drop monoliths the way you seem to think you can...it's very confusing. Hardest vehicle to kill times three, no sweat...

Oh and fyi, I believe you cannot legally place a full warrior unit from reserve.

So you are forced to do a emergency disembarkation. However, let's say you get 1 monolith into play on turn 2 and 2 warrior units into play on turn 3.

You cannot place the other warrior unit, they cannot disembark...so are they destroyed? We played they were placed back into reserve, but there is no real rule on this.

Anyway I think Tau can destroy this army, but everyone else has to deal with the new vehicle rules and the fact that the Monolith is nearly indestructible.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but without AP1 weaponry ALL glancing hits are pretty much worthless. I mean, have you played against any kind of vehicle army in 5E? They're a pain to stop...almost impossibly so. Yes, you can kill them, but the odds aren't in your favor.

Gonna run 9 broadsides and a bunch of markerlights?

Orks and Nids will show up at your door on turn 3, and you'll have no army by turn 4.

So it should be realistic, should it not?

This is an excellent army to deny KP's with. You know alot of missions at tourneys will have KP missions, and Necrons (even as strange as this army is) can handle killing 1 KP of pretty much any army.

Anyway, besides spamming Meltaguns and hoping you get a 6...if you don't have haywire or emp grenades how are you killing Liths besides the 'I hope' plan?

I'm also confused how you are getting mobile units like Raiders around a Monolith. Or rather, how you plan to swarm a Monolith to kill the warriors...it isn't impossible, but if you can't do it the turn after they land, aren't you in a world of trouble?

I managed to block part of an opening with one squad of jetbikes with my Dark Eldar army, but without a ruling from GW on how exactly Necrons arriving from reserve are treated (are they destroyed? From the FAQ, it appears like they should be delayed because they cannot be deployed.

So unless you can delay all of them arriving until the game ends, you can't really do much to them.

If you destroy 3 monoliths and aren't tau or some hyper 'I have 20 meltaguns' kind of army, then congratulations are in order because it's very difficult.

Last food for thought: If you have been 'delayed' but 'automatically' enter the game on turn 5, are you forced to commit to an emergency disembarkation to get onto the table before the game ends? Else trigger phaseout without ever having entered battle?

Many questions. Few answers.

you haven't said anything about WHERE you try to drop the monoliths.

Anywhere within 24" and you're in danger of having bikes or anything fast block your front exit.

Plain and simple. Realizing this, this army's bunk as far as I'm concerned. I'd love to play it.

How about:

1x17 N.Warriors + 1x N.Lord (base) + Mono
1x17 N.Warriors + 1x N.Lord (base) + Mono
1x18 N.Warriors + Mono
Total: 1841

54 models with 3 Sv's each!

When I play against my friend I usually try to wipe one squad out at a time, but with this set up I am unable to, simply madding.

... just ignore the monoliths if you kill all the necrons before they can roll WBB then the army phases out ... thats only 30 kills ... game over

(edit typo)

Spellbound wrote:you haven't said anything about WHERE you try to drop the monoliths.

Anywhere within 24" and you're in danger of having bikes or anything fast block your front exit.

Plain and simple. Realizing this, this army's bunk as far as I'm concerned. I'd love to play it.

This stops disembarkation how, exactly?

You have played 5E, yes?

Where everyone always gets out?

Especially out of a monolith...

I do enjoy reading the theoryhammer 'easy', but it just ain't so.

Spellbound wrote:you haven't said anything about WHERE you try to drop the monoliths.

Anywhere within 24" and you're in danger of having bikes or anything fast block your front exit.

Plain and simple. Realizing this, this army's bunk as far as I'm concerned. I'd love to play it.

Pg.67 BGB...

"If any models cannot disembark because of enemies... the unit can perform an emergency disembarkation - the models are deployed anywhere within 2" of the vehicle's hull..."

It goes on to say that if even this is not possible, the unit may not disembark. Soo... you'd have to occupy the entire 1-2" space around the whole monolith to prevent disembarking. Tank shock from the Monolith could easilly clear a path to disembark I'm sure.

I'm just wondering what real army is going to beat this?

My Eldar army can, but I run two seer council jetbike swarms.

I don't even know anyone else that has an army like mine.

I have a 12 Raider DE army. It can't go near the Monoliths, they blow me up.

Static shooting armies or mobile shooting armies, most can't deal with the Monoliths.

Single damage table + Monolith special rules =

I guess killing the hardest vehicle to kill in the whole game, is easier than I thought.

Had a hard time in 4E, but it's easier in 5E where non AP1 glances do nothing...

That's an interesting spoiler list. My current Ork list would do alright against it I think- 6 trukk mobs with power klaws, a warboss on bike with a squig and a claw, and a trukk of meganobs with claws. All of those claws shouldn't have a big problem taking down the monoliths. And the orks should easily kill the necrons in close combat.
The problem is that my trukk list is now pretty weak against everyone else, so I probably wouldn't run it in a tourney.

_ ignore _

Oh Ork Nobs love Monoliths. lol don't get me wrong, SOME armies don't really have a problem with this list in their default configuration. I'd say 180 Orks meet the requirements of multiple monolith killing units in every table quarter. Whether you can get there isn't really a huge question either, I think they can. But as others have noted, the 180 Ork list isn't exactly king willy.

Stelek wrote:
Nothing starts on the table.

how does that work ? you must have the min force organistion on the table ... and Necro Lords don't have the rule ether?

Lords attach to the necron warrior squads.

The warrior squads opt to enter play via the monoliths.

Monoliths opt to deep strike.

Monoliths enter no sooner than turn 2.

Warriors enter no sooner than turn 3.

ok i'll explain

only Warriors have this rule no one else

-Reserves: Any Warrior unit in excess of the minimum required by the force organisation chart (so 1HQ and Troop 2 in a standard mission)for the mission being played, may begn the game in reserves whether the reserves special rule is used or not. When they arrive they must emerge from a monolith portal. If there is no monolith when the units become available, they will be forced to wait until a monolith becomes available.

So they can't start in Reserves, unless i've missed some thing?

in 5th you can keep everything in reserve, always(with infiltrators/scouts being able to flank; jump troops to deepstrike). You just have to decide before the battle starts.

? didn't know that ... but still they can't arrive from the monolith can they? It's clearly contradicted by the Warriors Reserve Rule. I've checked the FAQ but i don't think GW spotted this contradiction as they mention Warriors using their Reserves rule.

Until it gets FAQ'd, you can either allow it or be a weenie and say you can't use your army rules because you've decided they can't.

So, I choose to allow it.

GW needs to rule on this to tell us what they want people doing.

melevon wrote:in 5th you can keep everything in reserve, always(with infiltrators/scouts being able to flank; jump troops to deepstrike). You just have to decide before the battle starts.

Unless a codex has a rule which superceded the BGB. If the Necron codex defines the deployment exclusions of Necron Warriors, those would supercede the BGB rule on reserves.

I don't know what the Necron codex says/doesn't say about Warrior deployment but if it excludes them as capable of being reserves at the start of a battle, there ya' go.

Warrior Special Rules
-Reserves: Any Warrior unit in excess of the minimum required by the force organisation chart for the mission being played, may begn the game in reserves whether the reserves special rule is used or not. When they arrive they must emerge from a monolith portal. If there is no monolith when the units become available, they will be forced to wait until a monolith becomes available.

Monolith Special Rules
-Power Matrix: (too long skipping down to the important bit)
-if a unit of of Necron Warriors is eligible to eneter play from reserves (see the Necron
Warriors entry) then they must emerge from the portal even if you would prefer to
fire the partical whip. Only one unit of Warriors can enter play from eeach Monolith
in a single turn. The Necon Player desideds which.

Stelek wrote:Until it gets FAQ'd, you can either allow it or be a weenie and say you can't use your army rules because you've decided they can't.

So, I choose to allow it.

GW needs to rule on this to tell us what they want people doing.

No not being a Weenie, but Star Engins can't be add to a Ram even though it would be logical for them to do so ... ork Trucks can't ram though it is logical and very Orky... and Necrons don't allow for unit coming in through the monolith unless they uses the Warriors Reserve rule even though it sounds like the right thing for them to do.

The rule stipulates that the min force organisation for the mission can't uses it and only Warrior get the rule (IC joined to the unit could go ether way but i'd say not) ... playing Apoc. fine no min FOC so no restrictions. Using the BGB and standard missions then you can't do it ...(unless GW let you in an up coming FAQ)


so if a necron player wants to start the min FO of Warriors off the board fine but they're walking on from his board edge ... and i wish him good luck

Kind of humorous.

"Hey check this out it's UBER nobody can beat it!"

"But it's illegal, you can't do it."

"...aw c'mon, don't be a weenie."

A unit can in fact emergency disembark, but then it can't do anything at all, leaving that unit open to assaults. You're depending on luck to win you out really. Not the best bet.

As for the tank shocking monolith, it can, but not before the warriors arrive.

Well I agree killing all those monoliths would be hard.

I would also say based on the new rules and the wording of the Warrior special rules on reserves, that dropping the monoliths on the objectives and such would be fine but that the warriors would have to walk onto the field from reserves as they are not in excess of the minimum choices.

Show me where it's illegal, spellbound.

Unclear, is the best you can do.

And if you say 'I beat your list this way' and you don't know about emergency disembark...kinda makes me keep chuckling at your theoryhammer, ya know?

I knew, but since you have only two units and they can't do anything when they perform an emergency disembark, I kind of figured they'd be dead anyway.

And it's actually quite clear. Warriors beyond the first two enter through monoliths. Prior, they walk onto the board. Have fun.

Whats the point total on this list?

The portal rule means you disembark just like from a vehicle. Can 20 warriors FIT within 2" of that portal? If not, then you'll always be emergency disembarking anyway, meaning the turn you disembark you won't be able to do anything that turn.

what happens if your warriors and lords arrive before the monoliths?? you would have to walk them on i think.

then use the lith drop the help the warriors play catch up.

1829p ... OMFG i never bothered to look up the cost you'd get creamed by any army ... so what you've 3 hard to kill monoliths ... you've only got 40 guys and lose 30 you phase out

... this list is Joke if you had trouble with it i then you should really look at your army ... hell an army of 1000p could nock the S! out of them

(edit) ... oh and you can only fit 16 models within 2" of the portal (some people clame 17/18 if you place them right)

Turn 2 1-2 monoliths arrive on average... turn 3 1 or both warrior units arrive [depends on how many monoliths arrived turn 1, as well]. Since they probably don't fit, you'll have to emergency disembark meaning over three turns you've only fired 1 or 2 Monoliths' gauss weapons, and on turn 3 you'll fire maybe 1 Particle whip. Turn 4 you get a chance to shoot whatever you're trying to kill with those two squads and the monoliths that have arrived [assuming no warriors had to arrive that turn, in which case you lose a particle whip and a unit of necrons' fire, and if any monoliths still hadn't arrived by now you'll lose that particle whip too].

So you'll have two turns of any significant damage. Maybe.

This list just doesn't really seem that scary at all, now.

Hmm. I hear a lot of people saying this list is bad. That's...interesting.

How many of you have actually seen the Monolith model?

For those of you that haven't, it's about 5-6 inches across, more than enough space to hide a Necron Warrior squad behind. With Indirect sucking even worse than in 4th Edition, this is an incredibly hard list to beat.

Being a math-hammer nut, I decided to figure out how many Lascannons the Guard would need to bring in its army to drop 3 Monoliths in a 6-turn game. That's a Monolith every other turn.

1 Dead Monolith >>> 3 Penetrating Hits >>> 18 Hits Scored (Str9) >>>36 Lascannon Shots (BS3).

So if you have 18 Lascannons in your Guard army (or 12 in your Marines) at 1850 points, then you have a 50% chance of dropping one Monolith per turn. Chances are though, you won't have much space for any Heavy Bolters or other anti-horde weapons in your IG Army.

Once everything's on the table you are dead -- the second you get one-movement phase away from assaulting a squad, the Necron player can either Veil away or summon off to another Monolith and then make you eat Str9 AP3 pie.

This list isn't so much about killing your stuff as it is about making you think that your army is worthless because none of his stuff is dying.

It was bad enough using a CC army to kill ONE in a game. My friend wants to field 3 against me in the near future...I've been putting it off because I know how much of a stomping I'm going to get.

Triple Monoliths is insanely hard to kill. With my primary army being assaulty (Black Templars), even the 2 Crusaders, 3 Vindicators, 6 Meltaguns, 5 Multi-Meltas and 2 Lascannons isn't enough to drop even 1 in a 6-turn game. If I took all the units that had those anti-tank weapons, I'd have myself a 2500 point army. Any other armor, I have the Melta rule and Str8 Fists hitting Rear AV10. Not no, not against Monoliths.

CK

That's why you assault them and hope they fail a morale test, which is very possible given the new rules.

Spellbound, did you read my post? You get within 18" of the Warriors, and they're gone. They'll veil behind terrain, get summoned another 18" away, or somesuch.

The point is, unless you have models that can hang around all three monoliths for several turns waiting for the Necrons to summon into assault range, you're going to have a hard time with 3 Str9 AP2 5" Blasts and/or Rapid Fire Gauss Flayers. 40 shots from a single squad is nothing to laugh at, especially if it's backed by even one Monolith.

There are only two squads, so one Monolith is always going to be vacant from a transmit. If the player moves them like the corners of an 18" per side equilateral trianlge, then you're really screwed.

Unbeatable? Of course not. Frakking hard as hell/annoying to beat? Absolutely.

CK

Playing with my 6-skimmer Eldar list [all in reserves], I would be tempted to not use the Autarchs' +2 to reserves, and not deploy my DAs in their tanks [CC units stay inside I think], then when the monoliths drop down I would ram as many empty serpents at them as possible, and see if any s10 hits could dent the things

Then my troops and remaining tanks would go after the necrons, starting with the squad unable to veil. You could just tank shock them off objectives and scrape out a win, or try and get in assault and run them down.

I wouldn't expect to run into a list like this monolith circus in a tournament though, and ramming all my tanks into the monoliths is something I would never want to try out at a tournament either More realistically I would get my tanks to sit on the objectives, and try and prevent crons from getting within 3" of at least one, giving me a win by objectives.

It would not be fun at all to play though. Kind of like playing drop pod marines in 4th ed recon, where they just make a drop pod wall and run into your deployment zone for all the VPs. Lame to play against [or with.].

"Sir, my missile launcher doesn't seem to have any effect."

"Fire again."

"Sir, my missile launcher doesn't seem to have any effect."

"Fire again."

"Sir, my missile launcher doesn't seem to have any effect."

"Fire again."

"Sir, my missile launcher doesn't seem to have any effect."

"Fire again."

"Sir, my missile launcher doesn't seem to have any effect."

"Fire again."

"Sir, my missile launcher doesn't seem to have any effect."

"Damn."

"Shall I give the lascannon a try now, sir?"

"......."

THUNDERHAMMERZZZ

? monoliths are hard to kill but come on killing 30 necrons isn't that hard once they've gone so do the monoliths ... what is the difficulty with this army?

WBB from res orb, reroll WBB when ported through a Monolith. Using reserves, they don't show up until turn 2 or 3...very few turns to even attempt to kill 30

@Tri:

The difficulty is that in managing to drop a model that otherwise has an MEQ statline, you've really only killed 1/4 of it. Why? Because the ResOrb guarantees a 4+ WBB roll, and then if the Necron player isn't satisfied with the results, he can summon the squad and reroll the failed WBB rolls. So having a Sv3+/4+/4+ cumulative makes it damn hard to drop them.

In fact, the only real chance you have is to get them with a sweeping advance in close combat -- hard enough to do as it is, since they'll Veil/summon away when you get too close.

9 Bolter Shots at BS4:

vs. Marine >> 6 Hit >> 3 Wound >> 1 Kill

vs. Necron Warrior >> 6 Hit >> 3 Wound >> 1 Failed Armor Save >> 0.5 failed WBB >>0.25 failed 'summon' WBB
(With ResOrb and Summon)

As I said, it's a hell of a lot harder to drop Warriors than some may think. They're 4 Space Marines in terms of their durability, and unless you are able to inflict enough wounds in close combat to kill all the Necrons (or enough that they fall back and you sweep them), you're in trouble. At this point, power weapons do little to aide you, especially given how much you're paying for them.

CK

@Tri:

The difficulty is that in managing to drop a model that otherwise has an MEQ statline, you've really only killed 1/4 of it. Why? Because the ResOrb guarantees a 4+ WBB roll, and then if the Necron player isn't satisfied with the results, he can summon the squad and reroll the failed WBB rolls. So having a Sv3+/4+/4+ cumulative makes it damn hard to drop them.

In fact, the only real chance you have is to get them with a sweeping advance in close combat -- hard enough to do as it is, since they'll Veil/summon away when you get too close.

9 Bolter Shots at BS4:

vs. Marine >> 6 Hit >> 3 Wound >> 1 Kill

vs. Necron Warrior >> 6 Hit >> 3 Wound >> 1 Failed Armor Save >> 0.5 failed WBB >>0.25 failed 'summon' WBB
(With ResOrb and Summon)

As I said, it's a hell of a lot harder to drop Warriors than some may think. They're 4 Space Marines in terms of their durability, and unless you are able to inflict enough wounds in close combat to kill all the Necrons (or enough that they fall back and you sweep them), you're in trouble. At this point, power weapons do little to aid you, especially given how much you're paying for them.

CK

well i am not to bothered by this list...

the liths will arrive one at a time, mabey 2.

but there is a 50 / 50 chance that you will get one warrior squad, and one lord as a walk on unit on turn 2.

my 4 railguns (2 of them happen to be twin linked) should have no problem turning a lith into a pool of living metal what with the bonus i get for them being AP 1 now

and i got 9 plasma rifels (boosted by markerlights of course) to deal with warriors and lords... not to mention, fire warriors, human aux units, kroot, and stealth suits.


o and BTW... a lith is a skimmer. correct me if i am wrong, but dont skimmers lack the ability block LOS...

at most i oculd see a a 4+ cover save now that they are so abundant. but even if the do block LOS.

this list has only TWO scoring units. yes yes i know, the lords and liths can contest. but in order for the lords to contest, they would have to detach. and then in turn, eat plasma.

your liths will be spending thier power core thingey to bring the warriors and lords on.. oooo can a lith even bring on more then one unit of nercons?? because the warriors are not a retinue for the lord, and would therefore take up 2 turns of power core goodness to bring a unit of warriors and a lord on.

Skimmers don't lack the ability, it's all TLOS

Envy, you're missing my point.

You're Tau. Okay, that's great. Congratulations. You play the only army in the game that has a reasonable chance of dropping 3 Monoliths in a 5-7 Turn game.

As for the dozen other races out there, unless we specifically gear our armies to take down AV14 we will have severe problems with this list.

As a Templar, I could fit 9 Multi-Meltas, 9 Lascannon (3 Infiltrating), and 6 Meltaguns in a 1850 list, and be able to deal with 3 Monoliths pretty easily. Unfortunately, it would mean that I've sacrificed my army's strengths to shore up its weaknesses, making such a list pretty terrible against everything.

Lormax is right about TLOS. What's more is that the Monolith doesn't come with a flying stand, so you basically would have three Pyramids in your list. Shooting from a hill won't work either, unless said hill is multiple feet tall.

CK

I want to see the hill that can let you fire over a Monolith...

All jump pack BA army should do well enough, assault the warriors when they arrive and force phase out. DC alone could break this list with FNP and regular armor saves.

FNP and regular armor saves don't work versus the monolith template...and getting cover is difficult against it unless you are in area terrain.

Guys... you cant beat the list....

This is why.. very simple.. try and undestand the words as they are typed...

You only have say 2-3 turns to shoot at something. ONLY 1-2 turns to assault. To beat this list, assault the Warriors, ignore the Monoliths, and cause Phase out as some of you think you could do would require this.

1). Fine a way to kill the Lord and a Monolith the turn they drop in. This takes away the Viel, and a teleport of a Warrior Squad.

2). Assault all 3 units of Warriors at once in the same turn to ensure 1 unit suffers a sweeping advance.

3). Even if you acheive both 1 and 2, the Necron player can now just stay away from you.

This list is not ment to beat anyone. Just make you look stupid as you wonder "How can I not win?"

I want to see the hill that can let you fire over a Monolith...

You don't need to see over it. Skimmers are all on flying bases now, so you just have to shoot under it.

As for killing the army, while I'm waiting for the marine codex to come out I'd use my chaos list. Two winged princes with lash should be able to double-pull one of the warrior squads into charge range of both of them, giving me a good chance of breaking them in combat in a single round, as two princes should win by 5 or 6, assuming average dice rolls.

This actually be one matchup where spectators don't roll their eyes when a twin lash army takes the table

Show me the monolith skimmer base, please...

The Monolith doesn't come with a Skimmer base. GW says that all models have to be based with the base they come with.. If the monolith is a skimmer, that just means it ignors terrain... since it doesn't come with a base.

It will follow the rules for TLOS

Stelek wrote:
... Meltaguns can only glance a monolith. So yes, they need a 3, 6, 6...and anything else is pretty much a wash.

Monoliths get hit on a 4+, and yes all haywire grenades play havoc with them. So do wraith weapons....

This is only true at long range. At half range or less the armour pen is 2d6+8, so an average shot will fully penetrate the shoebox. AP1 means 4+ to destroy it.
So 3 meltagun imperial guards are needed to take down a monolith. It's not a massive leap of faith to think meltagun squads or squads with grenades will be taken to tournaments, in order to deal with LRs etc.

The obvious problem is getting the melta guys within 6" without dying - but if you are allowing an army no opposition for 2/3 turns, with running they can spread out over quite a large area. So by turn 2, even the most crippled of opponents will have put their anti-tank squads in taxis, stationed round the board and waiting.

Darth Fugly wrote:

Stelek wrote:
... Meltaguns can only glance a monolith. So yes, they need a 3, 6, 6...and anything else is pretty much a wash.

Monoliths get hit on a 4+, and yes all haywire grenades play havoc with them. So do wraith weapons....

This is only true at long range. At half range or less the armour pen is 2d6+8, so an average shot will fully penetrate the shoebox. AP1 means 4+ to destroy it.
So 3 meltagun imperial guards are needed to take down a monolith. It's not a massive leap of faith to think meltagun squads or squads with grenades will be taken to tournaments, in order to deal with LRs etc.

The obvious problem is getting the melta guys within 6" without dying - but if you are allowing an army no opposition for 2/3 turns, with running they can spread out over quite a large area. So by turn 2, even the most crippled of opponents will have put their anti-tank squads in taxis, stationed round the board and waiting.

Uh, you have never actually played against a Necron player or read the Necron codex have you? In the future, please do not respond with uninformed suggestions.

"Living Metal: ... weapons that get additional Armour Penetration dice do not get the extra dice against the Monolith ..."

This is correct I haven't. In that case the extra pen dice should be used to throw at the players head.

Darth Fugly wrote:This is correct I haven't. In that case the extra pen dice should be used to throw at the players head.

Thank you for the

Couple problems with this army design...

1 - Warrior units would not be able to use the Monoliths to enter play. They could be held in Reserves, via the new 5e rules, but only Warrior squads exceeding the minimum FOC can use the Monolith to enter play.

2 - The maximum number of 1" base models (Warriors) that can enter play within 2" of the Monolith's portal is 13 (14 if you're good). The enemy isn't preventing you from disembarking, so the Emergency Disembarkation rule could not be used. You just can't disembark that many models from it.

3 - Whilst shooting probably won't ever be able to kill this army, all it takes is one good assault. I'm not saying that the assault is automatic, but with the newer, harsher close combat - Necrons that get run down do not get any WBB rolls.

I think you might actually have a problem when your opponent manages to get a dedicated assault unit into you. Your chances of running and have the entire unit wiped out are pretty good.

I would frankly break the troops up into 10 man squads instead. I'm also not 100% sure that you CAN bring a lord attached to warriors through the monolith since they don't exceed the 2 required by the Force Org Chart. Is there errata or just something I'm missing?

yeah...

With placing a blocking squad in front of the portal.
I'd have to agree with stjohn you can't use emergency disembark as you were never embarked. your entering the game from reserves. and you'd be lucky if theres any space left for you 1" away from my model and within 2" of your portal...

What does the BGB say about reserves that can't enter play?

PaniC...

Uhh whether you can use the monolith or not is a point of contention.

However, the monolith rules state you are placed as if you were embarked from it.

If you read the reserve rules and the monolith rules...you can walk on, then teleport around. You can also teleport in, because in missions where you start in reserve...do you roll for the lith and the necrons together, like the main rulebook says? Since you can keep your warriors in reserve, do you get to teleport in?

The problem with the assault death is you get to do this:

Unit A dies.
Unit B is nearby, and you cannot consolidate.
Half of Unit A gets up, and transfers to unit B.
Unit B goes through the portal, and another half gets up.

Yes, really. Show me the current rule that says swept Necrons cannot make WBB rolls. (Doesn't exist, and no one cares what the old FAQ for 4th said.)

So, I can't say how the army should really work because the rules are confusing to try to make sense out of.

I'm fairly certain that Necrons who are destroyed in a sweeping advance are just gone. Page 40 of the 5th edition book:

"... The falling back unit is destroyed. We assume that the already demoralized foe is comprehensively scattered, ripped apart or sent packing, its members left either dead, wounded and captured or at best fleeing and hiding. The destroyed unit is removed immediately. Unless otherwise specified, no save or other special rule can rescue the unit at this stage; for them the battle is over."

That seems pretty clear to me. The assaulted unit that lost and fell back due to leadership modifiers is just gone. If a solid assault unit gets into your unit chances are you will fall back and just get removed, including the lord.

Panic wrote:yeah...

With placing a blocking squad in front of the portal.
I'd have to agree with stjohn you can't use emergency disembark as you were never embarked. your entering the game from reserves. and you'd be lucky if theres any space left for you 1" away from my model and within 2" of your portal...

What does the BGB say about reserves that can't enter play?

PaniC...

I think the necrons can still emergency disembark if you're blocking the front door. You are placed as if disembarking. The emergency disembark is part of the disembark placement rules.

You did see the part about otherwise specified, yes?

Res orb and WBB break alot of rules.

You 'immediately remove' Necrons that cannot make a WBB roll--they are 'destroyed'.

If they can, you don't.

That too, is in the rules.

We can go around in circles all day, really.

But if you are using the portal to get more WBB back rolls then you aren't using the whip.

Capt K

Stelek wrote:FNP and regular armor saves don't work versus the monolith template...and getting cover is difficult against it unless you are in area terrain.

Well that's why there are 3 Monoliths and only 2 Warrior units.

It's not hard to (A) be out of range with one Monolith [you kinda want to be] and (B) only need to teleport one unit anyway.

If you shoot at 2 Necron units instead of 1, you're usually wasting your time.

Stelek wrote:The problem with the assault death is you get to do this:

Unit A dies.
Unit B is nearby, and you cannot consolidate.
Half of Unit A gets up, and transfers to unit B.
Unit B goes through the portal, and another half gets up.

Yes, really. Show me the current rule that says swept Necrons cannot make WBB rolls. (Doesn't exist, and no one cares what the old FAQ for 4th said.)

Fair enough - it's not in the new FAQ, so they could get WBB rolls... providing that A) the one other warrior squad is withing 6", AND B) the other Res Orb is also within 6". Those were wounds that didn't allow any save, and so would require a Res Orb to get up.

But even if all that happens, you still haven't said how you're getting more than 14 Warriors through the Monolith's portal.

You can't, so you emergency disembark.

Unless someone knows something to the contrary.

Still seems like GW should put an exception in for their poor model / rules design here, but meh.

Being a 'Nids player. This army make-up doesn't scare me in the least. It's a little intimidating at first to see 3 monoliths drop from obrit. But after that not so much. If you're dropping in close to my units...well we all already know what 'Nids do best and thats chew things up. Not to mention very few people either on here or in general make use of the 'other' 'Nids available to us from Forge World. And I promise you they'll be more than happy to chew on monoliths.

I still think a swarm army will have no problems either tank busting the monoliths and carving up your warriors. So they jump back behind terrain, so what? That means I have the objective, gg you lose unless you want to close with me and try to contest it.

What swarms the nids have will kill the monolith? The new MC ones I've heard so much about?

You have your objective, the Necrons have theirs. GG it's a draw...

Well without having to go to Forge World, you have the Carnifex. Crushing Claws or Scything Talons both are effective at shredding a Monolith. Now yes, I'll give you that you need to roll a 6 to hit, but once you do...well its not staying up for long.

On the forge world site, there's extra rules and parts for Carnifex's that give them access to 3 new biomorphs. Namely, the Ram Carapace and the two new arms Wrecking Arm and Wrecking Ball. Seeing as how I don't have the rules directly in front of me at the moment I can't quote. But I know they're plenty strong with a Carnifex pumped up and ready to charge.

As well you have the Scythed and Barbed Heirodule a very nasty mutation that the 'Nids have at their disposal. Both are harder to kill than a Carnifex and both are just as capable if not more so to shredding the living armor of the monolith.

And if playing an Apocalypse game, I can guarantee a Bio-titan's weapons are more than a match for the living armor that coats your monolith.

Although this approach does lend itself to CC a bit. Which is ok considering that's what 'Nids do best. Not mention you were talking about wanting to drop them close into your enemy to disrupt any kind of co-ordination, well you might be able to do something with that. But I'm pretty sure once your Warriors dis-embark in any form. They're going to be caught up in CC and you're going to be phasing out pretty quick. Also, getting and using these particular units doesn't make me weak to other lists. So its not a "hate-list" to Necrons by any means, but it'll get the job done.

*shrug* It really doesn't matter to me. Since I've yet to see a force this dedicated to *not* fighting, thusly I'm not really concerned about ever having to fight it. Not to mention most players actually like to have fun and shoot and play the game, not run around and hide. But to each his own.

lol unit A loose combat and dies unit B is in range and all necrons go through the monolith (i know they wouldn't fit but) every one manages their WBB roll. you then only have one unit of 38 models and 2 lords ... so how the hell are they going to roll WBB if they run away?

this would be funny

@Tri: That would be funny! lol

@Fexor: Uhh you know Monoliths are usually hit on 4+, that most Carnifex users do not upgrade to S10, and MC do not get an extra D6 for armor pen?

Apocalypse? What's that? [OMG TONGUE IN CHEEK!]

On second careful reading of the rules you are right, they Necrons would get a WBB roll for being caught in a sweeping advance.

However, every individual model would need to be within 6" of another model of the same type that is still standing. That will cut down a little on the number of models able to make WBB. This of course depends on your deployment, which could make you vulnerable to ordnance. That's all speculative though.

Those that don't get a roll won't get one for going through the monolith with unit B. Seeing as how your phase out number is 7 though you might have some troubles against a "real" assault army. If you only roll for one unit to come in and it gets assaulted that turn... well you're in for some hard times.

All in all I think the overall strategy is decent, but there are to many things that can go horribly horribly wrong. Perhaps TWO monoliths and 3 units of necrons would be a better way to go.

About Eldar and Dark Eldar and Monoliths... I'm not sure it's still in effect, but I remember in 2nd edition, when I played DE, the DarkLance automatically lowered armour values to 12. Is that still around?

Edit: I'm sure it said "Lance" weapons. So maybe BrightLance as well?

@NidMaster40000
.... please go buy the necron codex or read it of one of PDF websites ... and read up on living metal and its ability to ignore almost every thing that improves you chances at killing it ... if you can't be bothered monoliths ignore the extra dice for melta wepons in half range, it always armour 14 as it ignores lancing, tank hunter gives no bonse ether
... i do feel living metals a bit over kill but then the monolith does cost a ton of points for some thing that can only move 6" and at best has a 24" range (yes it can deep strike but you can scatter 12" you're 2 turns away from where you want to be)

Neither DE nor Necrons existed in 2E.

The Dark Lance does do that, but not against the Monolith.

Stelek wrote:Neither DE nor Necrons existed in 2E.

In all fairness, since I actually read White Dwarf back in the days of 2nd, the latter half of that statement is not entirely correct. They did have some basic units in a White Dwarf article (pretty much Warriors and Scarabs).

Hmmm I don't remember much about that article except it was laughable.

Then they made it an army. :(

As there's some debate about the legality of Monolithing all your Warriors, would it be possible to add 2-min sized warrior squads to satnd on the board and get shot at for the first couple turns and use the rest of the list as is to be unkillable? If my math's right that works out to circa a 2k point list.

I don't see anything wrong with it.

It's not that Necrons are gonna win many games in 5E till a revamp anyway.

Reading the rules for Emergency Debarcation, I do not believe you can ED a Warrior unit from your reserves when the 'Lith is destroyed because the Warriors are not actually in the 'Lith as passengers. They are in reserve which is a different situation. Can the 'Lith pick up and carry troops around? Nope. Then no ED. The only time a Necron unit interacts with the "Lith is during the Movement Phase, either coming out of reserve or being teleported from the battlefield to the portal on the front.

Nor would I attempt to do so.

You can ED from a live Lith though.

Stelek wrote:Nor would I attempt to do so.

You can ED from a live Lith though.

How? No passengers in a 'Lith so no ED.

Read the Lith rules again.

The part about disembarking from a stationary transport vehicle.

You can "insist" Necron players can't do this, but I wager they'll do it anyway.

All four of them that will run more than 14 warriors in a single unit.

Stelek wrote:Read the Lith rules again.

The part about disembarking from a stationary transport vehicle.

You can "insist" Necron players can't do this, but I wager they'll do it anyway.

All four of them that will run more than 14 warriors in a single unit.

Ah, I understand. They can ED if the portal is blocked by the enemy or impassable terrain. Otherwise they have to come out the front door.

Right. I doubt people will care really, Necrons have like 1 build that's any good...and even that is just until people figure out how to beat it.

stjohn70 wrote:Couple problems with this army design...

1 - Warrior units would not be able to use the Monoliths to enter play. They could be held in Reserves, via the new 5e rules, but only Warrior squads exceeding the minimum FOC can use the Monolith to enter play.

2 - The maximum number of 1" base models (Warriors) that can enter play within 2" of the Monolith's portal is 13 (14 if you're good). The enemy isn't preventing you from disembarking, so the Emergency Disembarkation rule could not be used. You just can't disembark that many models from it.

3 - Whilst shooting probably won't ever be able to kill this army, all it takes is one good assault. I'm not saying that the assault is automatic, but with the newer, harsher close combat - Necrons that get run down do not get any WBB rolls.

1 - Incorrect. The new necron faq states that the necron player determines if warrior units will enter play via monolith or board edge. FOC does not factor into this.

2 - This is correct (though you might be able to get more than 13) if you include impassable terrain into the equation.

3 - Casualties from a necron unit that subsequently gets run run down from sweeping advances do get a WBB (the first casualties that is - not the ones that were run down) as long as they are eligible for a WBB. That rule was taken out of the old faq when the new faq was published.

Well to be honest, this list was created well before the FAQ. I had a inkling how it'd be written, but it was just a well-educated guess.

I think we covered the WBB from CC thing already.

Tri wrote:

Warrior Special Rules
-Reserves: Any Warrior unit in excess of the minimum required by the force organisation chart for the mission being played, may begn the game in reserves whether the reserves special rule is used or not. When they arrive they must emerge from a monolith portal. If there is no monolith when the units become available, they will be forced to wait until a monolith becomes available.

Monolith Special Rules
-Power Matrix: (too long skipping down to the important bit)
-if a unit of of Necron Warriors is eligible to eneter play from reserves (see the Necron
Warriors entry) then they must emerge from the portal even if you would prefer to
fire the partical whip. Only one unit of Warriors can enter play from eeach Monolith
in a single turn. The Necon Player desideds which.

The rule stipulates that the min force organisation for the mission can't uses it and only Warrior get the rule (IC joined to the unit could go ether way but i'd say not) ... playing Apoc. fine no min FOC so no restrictions. Using the BGB and standard missions then you can't do it ...(unless GW let you in an up coming FAQ)

I don't think this logic quite holds up. The warrior special rule doesn't restrict warriors in any way, it just grants an additional benefit to warrior squads in excess of the FOC requirement for the mission. The main rule book allows all units to enter in reserve, and the Necron codex grants that ability a second time to warrior squads in excess of FOC requirements.

This is in addition to any Necron FAQs that may also clarify the issue.

Grimaldi wrote:

I don't think this logic quite holds up. The warrior special rule doesn't restrict warriors in any way, it just grants an additional benefit to warrior squads in excess of the FOC requirement for the mission. The main rule book allows all units to enter in reserve, and the Necron codex grants that ability a second time to warrior squads in excess of FOC requirements.

This is in addition to any Necron FAQs that may also clarify the issue.

...? whats the difference between the BGB Reserve Rule and the Warrior Special Rules ? easy one lets you walk on from your edge and the other lets you come throught the monolith. BGB has no restrictions on the Reserve Rule but the Warrior Special Rules does;

Warrior Special Rules
-Reserves: Any Warrior unit in excess of the minimum required by the force organisation chart for the mission being played, may begn the game in reserves whether the reserves special rule is used or not. When they arrive they must emerge from a monolith portal. If there is no monolith when the units become available, they will be forced to wait until a monolith becomes available.

and the FAQ doesn't change this
... what it does say "he must specify if they are going to enter the game through the monolith or simply walk in from their own table edge" this is because if all monliths are destroyed any Warrior using Warrior Special Rules are destroyed

(edit to fix format)