And so it came to pass that after a 5 year hiatus I was badgered into attending Gamesday UK 2008 by tha ladz.. This is my story.

First impressions were that it was better organised than last time I went, less queueing etc and more staff on. After that it was just as I remembered... geeks of all shapes and sizes, the odd bad fancy dress outfit, and a couple of nutters dressed up as space marine scouts with poorly made wooden sniper rifles!

First up was the compulsory scrum to get to the forge world shop. I had £70 in gift vouchers from my local store, and I wasn’t afraid to use them... One winged tyrant and some winged rippers later (and about 50 minutes in the four-deep wall of nerds) and I emerged relatively unscathed.

After that there was just plenty of wandering, the fruits of which you can see in the photos, surfice it to say I had a blast, felt like it was good to be back....

The rest of this I’ll divide up by games starting with....

PHOTOS :

WoC Stuff : http://www.flickr.com/photos/30119658@N08/sets/72157607301619165/

Everything else (spot me disguised as the White Dwarf?!!??) : http://www.flickr.com/photos/30119658@N08/sets/72157607301632063/

Bloodbowl

Oh yes, I have played a half of the PC version of bloodbowl game and I can tell you now folks, it’s a work of genius.

They have managed to keep to the mechanics, the look, and the feel of the game - it’s awesome. It looks great, and it even has the commentators from the Bloodbowl articles in Citadel Journal. There’s just enough of the “dice rolling” brought into the game to let you know you are playing the board game, whilst still making it an immersive computer gaming experience.

If you have specific questions about it, just ask, but it was made entirely of pig skins, win and awesomeness. And yes, my lizardmen won the half 1-0 with a turn 7 TD play from deep in my own half. MUAAHAHAHAHAHAH, silly gobbos.. (which, by the way, come with pogo sticks, chainsaws and all the other toys....)

The publishers were there and they are confident of a Q1 2009 release. The PC game will be ready by christmas but they are going for a simultaneous launch.

The other game license being talked about a lot at the moment is DoW2, but the queue for the demo suite was about 2000000 km long, so I couldn’t be arsed!!

Warhammer Fantasy.

See photos for as many pics as I could get of the WoC plastics in the cabinets, and some shots of blow-ups that they had of the rules.

I didn’t get a look at the army book itself, but it was there, and my buddies did see it. The rumour list is largely confirmed, and in addition apparently the new magic spells are horrific - particularly Tzeench.

EDIT : Buddy remembered some details on Tzeentch...

Tzeentch magic
Lvl 1; d6+1 strength d6+1 magic missile
Can't remember 2 and 3
Lvl 4; All models in unit strike each other with caster choosing which weapon is used, take that great weaponed armed Dwarfs
Lvl5; Casting 12+, basically remove a friendly model and replace with an Exalted Champion
Lvl6; Casting 15+ 2d6 strength 2d6 magic missile. If a 11 or 12 is rolled then don't resolve hits, instead remove the targeted unit from the game as it is sucked into the realm of cahos

There is an army wide rule to re-roll panic tests and the eye of the gods table looks nasty, but I couldn’t get a good pic.

One tit-bit - the hell cannon is now 200 pts, only takes up a single rare-slot, runs 3d6 towards the enemy when it goes wrong, has more change of going wrong and is only Str 5 under the template (10 under the hole).

The new mini’s look amazing imho. (see photos.)


WH 40k

Had a flick through the new SM ‘dex. It’s a lovely book definately will be buying it.

I also got to talk to both Alessio and Jervis, and asked them directly about FAQs for the non-codex chapters. The bottom line is they won’t be getting 2-shot CMLs or 3+ storm shields in an FAQ.

Alessio is adamant that they want the rule books to be self sufficient. However he did say (again) that the FAQ section of the website is due to be revamped in a couple of months.

He did come up with an interesting fluff explanation though, which is that the likes of the DA run their own forges and therefore manufacture their own equipment, inferior to that of mars. He did admit to me that he would have preferred the kit in the C:SM to have been given a different name - Mars Pattern Cyclone Missile Launchers and so on. His point was that this is basically different gear, not all CMLs or storm shields are created equal and the price you pay for not being a codex chapter and wearing hippy robes or holding dark secrets is that you don’t get all the latest toys from his nibs... Irritating, but I wish they’d said something like that sooner.

Forgeworld had a nice Seige of Vraks diorama to go with the new book, which I really like, lots of cool imagery and more good stuff from Warwick Kinrade in there. As already mentioned they have a new Lord of Change in the works. It looks sick. Side note: The Chaos Lord in terminator armor apparently sold out within about 15 minutes of the doors opening..


Other shizzle & conclusion

The THQ Rhino was really cool, took some shots of that. There was also some dude with about 16k points of Space Wolves in a nice diorama, plus 5 titans. What a nutter! He reckoned each titan took about 2.5 hours to build and 2 to paint with a spray gun. It was, he said, an army meant to be played with, but I still think it looked cool.. pics here : http://www.flickr.com/photos/30119658@N08/sets/72157607301609805/


There is also a nice new modular gaming table on the way, apparently it’ll be £100 for a 6x4 table in 6 parts, which come with a carry bag. It looks really nice (see photos). Next to it was some absurd orky train thing with a big feth-off gun on it.

All in all, it was a good day out. The highlight for me was playing the BB game - it's going to rock. Low-light - £1.80 for a bottle of pop, oh and the M25 on the way home....

Good report, thanks.

Good write up and top pics.

The modular board looks surprisingly nice - not sure if I want to fork out £100, though.

[rant]
The 'army meant to be played with'. WTF? Half of it wasn't even painted! I don't object to anybody doing a basic job to get an army in the field, but this is Games Day! It should be top draw.
[/rant]

Bloodbowl sounds cool - any ideas what platforms its getting released on?

Interesting to hear Alessio's 'explanation'. Its a great idea, in theory. Problem is it doesn't explain why everyone can now get the (formerly DA only) Mortis Pattern Dreadnoughts, or why different armies pay different points for identical gear.
If they want to do the whole 'different chapters have their own forges and hence get different gear, thats great. A genuinely good idea. BUT only if they actually do it well and consistently.
This just smacks of a lame excuse...

just my $0.02

The fundamental flaw in Alessio's excuse is every other army, but especially CSM.

Thanks so much for the pics, the dwarf vs ork naval battle and the seige of Vracks looked amazing.

However looking at the rulebook entry for chaos chosen... eye of gods table. Don't tell me GW is still stupid enough to have units roll a d6 at the start of the game (after deployment) for abilities/ penalties. I thought that rubbish was confined to 40k.

Can't they just say something closer to the truth, like, "We really just can't be bothered to write up a proper FAQ"?

Actually, it would probably be easier to write the damn FAQ then come up with some half-assed excuse as to why different marine armies have different stats for the same things.

A lot less confusing, and a lot less energy spent answering the same question at every convention from now until 6th edition....

£100 for what amounts to 2 GW modular hills stuck to some plastic boards? I love GW terrain - buy almost everything they put out - but that's absurd.


Almost as absurd as Alessio's bs FAQ explanation.

BYE

Well, the modular terrain board looks interesting to me. I'd have to see it in the flesh or on high quality photographs, but it strikes me as something that could save me a lot of time and mess. Yeah, making basic terrain boards out of styrene foam and grass mat etc., isn't much hassle. But this takes the sculpting, carving and assembly out of the process. If I could get a hefty discount off an online retailer, I possibly could be persuaded.

The big thing for me is if they clip together. Having terrain boards that clip together and come apart easily is a big deal as I hate modular boards that shift and knock models and buildings over when some numpty leans too hard on the things.

Personally though what I'd really like is a rubber terrain mat from "Zuzzy", but postage from the States is ridunkulous. On the other hand US$93 including postage for a 6x4 mat delivered is a lot better than £100 (less discount, plus postage) for plastic stuff. Maybe. I'll probably be ordering one or the other for Chrimbo ... we'll see.

I thought the modular board had "puzzle piece" type of connection to keep them connected together?

My first games day yesterday. Some high quality ques , and a nice long walk from the car park ( with £8.00 parking fee ). They were the only down sides , the rest I enjoyed. I would do a few things differently next time , like shopping first then looking second, as some of the stuff I wanted was sold out ( no ork fighta bomber or drop pod for me , bah!). Some great photos fitzeh , I needn't botherd taking my camera , I think he captured most of the stuff going on. The life size ork v space marine cardbored cut outs battle should have been added and the big tank battle was also fun.

No Gonads the eye of the gods table doesn't work like that.

It's worse, and better. lol

vodski wrote:( no ork fighta bomber or drop pod for me , bah!)

Would you have seriously bought a FW Drop Pod, with the plastic one coming out around the corner?

Oh no! My green space marines won't be as good as your blue space marines!

The modular board does look good. Two flat sections and Four with low hills that diagonally cover half of them.

The hills on them are flat too and allow you to add the existing plastic hills right on top as they are the same shape. It comes with a carry bad with shoulder strap and clips to connect the sections together.

I'm gunna keep my eye on my favorite online retailer to see if they get them in.

Pic: http://www.flickr.com/photos/29909548@N07/2859138389/

I don't post round here much but I thought I'd just add some stuff.

It was my first GD. The queue in for me was ridiculous I arrived by car at half 9 and didnt get in until 20 to 11.. I did however manage to get the chap book for the GG series and a Valkyrie so it was fine.

Thought I'd just add I was in on the seminar, they showed us the new marine stuff, new captains etc went through details, Same for WHFB Chaos Knights new characters aswell.
They showed us a teaser CAD of the Iron Clad Dreadnought. Dreadnought with big killy fists, Front armour that represented the frag assault launchers off the Crusader and 2 Hunter Killer style missiles on its shoulders.

fitzeh wrote:I also got to talk to both Alessio and Jervis, and asked them directly about FAQs for the non-codex chapters. The bottom line is they won’t be getting 2-shot CMLs or 3+ storm shields in an FAQ.

Alessio is adamant that they want the rule books to be self sufficient. However he did say (again) that the FAQ section of the website is due to be revamped in a couple of months.

He did come up with an interesting fluff explanation though, which is that the likes of the DA run their own forges and therefore manufacture their own equipment, inferior to that of mars. He did admit to me that he would have preferred the kit in the C:SM to have been given a different name - Mars Pattern Cyclone Missile Launchers and so on. His point was that this is basically different gear, not all CMLs or storm shields are created equal and the price you pay for not being a codex chapter and wearing hippy robes or holding dark secrets is that you don’t get all the latest toys from his nibs... Irritating, but I wish they’d said something like that sooner.

Interesting fluff explanation? That is just as lame of an EXCUSE as what Phil Kelly gave earlier.

And it is just an excuse. Lets not candy coat it like it makes sense or anything. Rule mechanics are suffering from such 'rationale'.

[edit] and when they do get around to rewriting these codices, they will include these things.

Do you know what their 'interesting fluff explanation' will be then?

"Oh well, the DA/BA, etc suddenly got a consistent arms contract from mars suddenly.. Please ignore all idiocy we said about fluff in the past"

This could have been fixed for free via a FAQ errata, but now GW expects you to wait several years for a rewrite, and then PAY AGAIN to have this inclusion in new rules.

If people believe GW thinks of its customers as anything but idiots, then those very same people are idiots too.

About the table -

I recently built a 6x4 table for a friend's B-day. I did it with another friend and it took us about 2 days, working around 12 hours each day. It wasn't a ton of work, but if we could have just bought a table that frankly looks better and still packs away compactly, we would have.

The table is like all GW terrain, really. With a pile of foam and a hot wire cutter you can make more terrain more economically. However, if you've got the cash to burn and you like instant terrain right out of the box, this is for you.

BTW, the 24 hours of table building includes driving time between the DYI store, drying time...etc.

Zoned

Many thanks for the report!!

And I am with Zoned about the table.

Well, actually i am with GW for not doing updates for BA/DA and stuff. Why? This time it would really be hard to balance all the new toys in context of the special rules of the codizes. (Unlike other times, where GW just states it is too dificult to balance, because they are too lazy).
But that doesn't mean, that the decision GW was making was the best one. In fact i think they should have released BA/DA/SW/BT as a part of the new Space Marine codex, giving them the same status, Legions had in the old Chaos Codex. This would have worked much better and those players would have had access to all their toys, because their lists would have been reworked from the start, incorporating the new SM codex.
Probably we would have lost some of the detail of those lists in order to make them compatible for SM 5.0, but this is a price i'd pay gladly.

Zoned wrote:About the table -

I recently built a 6x4 table for a friend's B-day. I did it with another friend and it took us about 2 days, working around 12 hours each day. It wasn't a ton of work, but if we could have just bought a table that frankly looks better and still packs away compactly, we would have.

The table is like all GW terrain, really. With a pile of foam and a hot wire cutter you can make more terrain more economically. However, if you've got the cash to burn and you like instant terrain right out of the box, this is for you.

BTW, the 24 hours of table building includes driving time between the DYI store, drying time...etc.

Zoned

It's not totally instant as you have to paint it.

Does anyone know what kind of plastic it is made of?

£100 is quite a lot.

Good report, thanks.

On the whole DA/BA faq issue, I'll be honest I said to my self what Alesso said. As happy as I would be if they did update those two books, it is by no means necessary. The FAQ's are meant to be erratas and not an addendum to the book. It seemed like Alesso was upfront that they don't want to require players to have to have multiple rulebooks, that they intend the books to be self sufficient. That his fluff explanation was just something thrown out there as a possible explanation and not the end all be all of the situation.

As nice as it would be for BA and DA to have all or even some of the new toys the demand that they be granted the update in the form of an FAQ is silly because it flies in the face of GW's normal operating procedure. Both should demand a revisit and update to bring them inline with the new codex, but going through FAQ isn't the way to go.

I mean the quick fix would be to just re-write as a chapter approved the DA and BA special characters to go with the Codex SM so that they modify that list and provide chapter traits, and just toss out the BA and DA codex.

I gotta say I was sceptical about the table - someone told me about it - until I went to take a look.

It's really solid, and it's transportable. If you don't have a FLGS (and in the UK they aren't that common) then you have to play at your buddies houses. Humping board sections around is fine if you have a nice big car, but I think the 2x2 sections fit together well and it looked nice all painted / flocked up.

On the FAQ front, I'm as disappointed as the rest of you tbh, but I did have a really good 20 minute chat with Alessio about all kinds of random stuff, I wasn't really out to interview him, that's my day job....

Chimera Calvin : I think you are mistaken. The whole army was painted, not exactly G.Demon standard but the whole diorama looked excellent imho.

WAaagh_Gonads : The Eye of Chaos table is a 2d6 roll, which you get to roll when you acheive certain things : Win a challenge, and some other gak. I didn't get the details but a double 1 means the character becomes stupid... It gets better from there.

EDIT 1: Alessio also said that they would do the BA / DA codices again - I asked him point blank if they would just phase them out, and he was adamant they wouldn't. I think we'll just be at the back of a long queue for 5ed books.

EDIT 2: The Dwarf port diaorama was shown at GD Germany i beleive (i saw some pics floating around the net) but it looks awesome in the flesh. The back of it is about 5ft high!

At first I thought the terrain boards sounded like a rip off but having looked at them and held them I'm starting to think they are a good idea. As they work out to around £16.66 per board thats not to bad.
The only drawbacks I can see to them are-
1) guess range weapons will be a lot more deadly (hmmm, this boards 2'x2' I'm at the base edge your on the join line...)
2) do you really need areas full of skulls for every game you play?
3) transporting them once they are painted and flocked, as they are hard plastic it will be easy to chip all your hard work off...
Overall the show was ok but no big releases unless you were a Marine player, mind you I went through about £200...
Mick

I just want to re-iterate how much win the BB computer game was....

I played a half, and almost joined the back of the queue again...

Chimera : Bloodbowl is due on PC and XBOX 360.

The modular board looks cool but how many different ones are there? one thing that always bugged me about modeled boards that folks make is even if they're super cool looking, you're still always playing on the same stretch of land. I like the variety of a plain flat board with hills and things you can put anywhere. But, the modular pieces might make for a good display board for tournaments, etc.

Lormax wrote:

vodski wrote:( no ork fighta bomber or drop pod for me , bah!)

Would you have seriously bought a FW Drop Pod, with the plastic one coming out around the corner?

Sorry , was I misleading ? I ment the new plastic ones , which had all sold out by the time I went to get one at about 13.30. It was bad enough parting with £85 for a valkyrie , when you can get a plastic plane model for three times the size , more complex and half the price. Oh no! shopaholic guilt! must spend more money to cheer myself up.

"Let the Alessio-hate flow freely, my young apprentices"

Necros- all six boards are different so you can have hills in the middle, at the ends or on the sides.
Mick

That life size Rhino needs some highlights.

The FW Khorne Lord must have sold out quicker than 15 minutes, I got there before that, still couldn't get one. It was a bit mental. Don't have much in the ways of news I'm afraid- although from the way Jervis was talking about Dark Eldar, it sounded like they haven't even started work on them yet. LatD won't even be considered until the existing armies are all redone, alas.

Must have been depressing for all the Black Library authors who weren't Dan Abnett, not everyone who wanted to see him got to before the end, while most of them had nothing to do later in the afternoon.

The modular boards are great! They are made of are made from hard plastic (like the shuttle terrain of the Battle of Macafgragagag) and two parts are held together by two clips just a few centimetres from each corner. Each piece has a grid of 5x5 cm, to make it more sturdier. A 6x4 board is quite rigid too, as I have seen it being shaken in one corner and it stayed together without bending. The boards can hang over the sides of a table and the whole will still be stable. The developers said the 6 piece table can be used safely on a 5x3 foot table. They also recommended to place newspapers between the boards if they are painted and flocked. it is released late november.
More gaming aids are coming out too, like a table painting set. A backpack which can hold one or two (small) GW army cases and a bag with wheels (like airport suitcases) for up to two big army cases. The spray gun is set for (re)release in October, with a proper hose this time.

Other news:
Orks second wave are to released soon apparently.
Plastic Grots were on display painted and all!
Plastic Nobs too, and they are much better than the starter set ones!
i have also seen were some plastic ammo runts, but I am not sure to which set they belong
But no sign of the battle wagon, though
Forge World had some amazing Ork nob bikers and a trukk based flakk wagon
Also on display was an amazing WIP warboss on bike.
More FW ork releases are planed after the third and last Siege of Vraks book (containing a.o. Grey Knights)

A lot of new Space Marines were on display, but they are already covered well the last months.

Some random new Mordheim humans were in a display.

I have also seen many warriors of chaos models, but I am not very good into fantasy chaos models, but they look very good, apart from the quite static lord on horse.

The new big hall is certainly an improvement in terms of space. But GW hadn't really done anything to make use of the space, other than spreading out the same things they have been doing for years. That was my biggest disappointment too. GW is not doing anything new on games days for years.

vodski wrote:( no ork fighta bomber or drop pod for me , bah!)

If FW didn't have the stuff in store you wanted, then you could have it send to your house for free. As is mine Ork Fighta-bomba ;-)

Blackadder wrote:Plastic Grots were on display painted and all!

WHERE ARE THE PICTURES?!

Also, someone somewhere (helpful, I know) was mentioning that they DID see the Ork Battlewagon at this Gamesday...

I think they saw an actual model, not a CAD drawing or some such.

Is that not the case?

I ended up going to one of the Seminars (friend didn't want his ticket), and though pretty pointless (too much time wasted on presentations of stuff we already know, not enough for questions) and though there wasn't any real news, there was one mildly nifty tidbit.

There won't be a combined Inquisition Codex, nor will there be a third, Alienwatch codex. However, apparently will be updated eventually, and will be centered more around Grey Knights and Sisters.

fitzeh wrote:He did come up with an interesting fluff explanation though, which is that the likes of the DA run their own forges and therefore manufacture their own equipment, inferior to that of mars. He did admit to me that he would have preferred the kit in the C:SM to have been given a different name - Mars Pattern Cyclone Missile Launchers and so on. His point was that this is basically different gear, not all CMLs or storm shields are created equal and the price you pay for not being a codex chapter and wearing hippy robes or holding dark secrets is that you don’t get all the latest toys from his nibs...

That's slowed. GW needs some Mars Pattern games designers, these ones are sub par.

The one piece of solace I hold in my heart is that my beloved blood angels are working with a WD list so should be getting a codex in the next couple of years.
The poor sap DA players will have to hang in the wind for years to come.

Saw a metal mold for the new Ork wartrakk, will be a lot bigger than the old one...
Mick

GW has alienated a large portion of their very solid consumer base. Its kind of odd too. They could have made this so easy in so many ways.

Combine all space marine chapters into one book

Errata all gear to be consistent.

They have failed twice. (and no you wont fool anyone calling a cyclone launcher a "mars pattern cyclone launcher you patronizing asshats)

But we did get some great drunken rambling from the designers regarding their justification of being dickheads. So thats a plus.

And to think, I would have spent a lot of extra money on other cools things to add to my Deathwing. You know, being a space marine player and all, who is their bread and butter apparently.

Nah. GW has shown that 5th ed isn't changing much. Gross incompetence through inconsistency.

Sure there is light at the end of the tunnel. There always is promises for such. After a decade in this dead end game where the company patronizes their consumers, I feel like a fool for thinking that GW actually might have changed for the better.

Thanks GW. I owe you one.

(Que flaming GW fanbois in rabid defense of GW's grand design plans)

As a sap DA player , is all this new stuff really good enough to have me eyeing that can of blue spray paint at the back of my workshop. I hope theres a premium in points price for all this tasty wargearto even things out a bit. Thinking about the landraider crusader though , that was to good just to sell to one chapter. Its not like GW to miss an opportunity to sell a much metal and plastic as they can , they just got to give us saps a fighting chance.

vodski wrote:As a sap DA player , is all this new stuff really good enough to have me eyeing that can of blue spray paint at the back of my workshop. I hope theres a premium in points price for all this tasty wargearto even things out a bit. Thinking about the landraider crusader though , that was to good just to sell to one chapter. Its not like GW to miss an opportunity to sell a much metal and plastic as they can , they just got to give us saps a fighting chance.

Well you could be an even bigger sap and buy yet another codex.

They hope, nay expect you to buy a new codex so you can buy all the new nifty crap that is in fact cheaper to field in the new codex.

You would be doing the extremely awesome company that is GW a favor by doing so.

How am I (we) a bigger sap for buying a codex that's better than the one I am using?

I will continue to use my DA codex for Death/Raven/Double-wing armies and the SM codex for Marine based armies.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

I must buy everything GW bring out or I'll turn into somekind of human being , with a life. And I've seen real life on the TV news , its not nice. Isn't it great how everyone slags off GW , any new rule book or codex is never as good as the last , GW rips us off with there prices blah blah. Do other war games change there rules all the time? One of the things that gets me about GW is that everything must be from them. There were no other companys at games day that might make things that we could find usefull , plasticard , scenery , custom dice general hobby aids. I remember a long time ago before white dwarf "came out" as being the mouthpiece of GW , and they used to review books , and other games/model company output. Oh happy days , I suppose there is still choice out there somewhere, outside this warm fluffy GW womb, but thats in the real world.

Ozymandias wrote:How am I (we) a bigger sap for buying a codex that's better than the one I am using?

I will continue to use my DA codex for Death/Raven/Double-wing armies and the SM codex for Marine based armies.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

It makes you a bigger sap because they tell you things like "Its mars pattern" instead of just fixing the issues for a product you already paid for.

Simple as that.

Has anyone at GD UK seen the pics of the (new?) turrets for imperial vehicles?

I'm in the camp of I'd rather have a new codex than a bunch of FAQ's to carry around, I did that already in 3rd ed.

Frankly, I was going to buy the new SM dex anyway (cause I've been buying every new codex that comes out) so it's not like I'm spending money I wouldn't have otherwise. That may just be me though.

I would still like to see either a return to the "Use C: SM with the following changes..." or simply see DA/BA get rolled into the SM dex. BT/SW are wierd enough that they can get their own codex but I'd be happy using a Terminator Captain to take Termies as troops and a bike captain to get bikes as troops (though Sammael is a cool character). Azrael, Interrogator-Chaplains, etc can all be made using the SM codex.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

By the way I went with someone who plays Tau, he was a bit miffed that the tau presence was non existent. No one seemed to be playing them and no new stuff, hardly any old stuff for sale. He offered to take everyone on in battle "one at a time or all at once" ,( quietly, from the back of the stands). The rest of us concluded the tau are a finished non-existant race , and therefore since his race was nonexistant we spent the rest of the day ignoring him.

There was a Plasma Cannon-y looking turret for a Russ. I'd be impressed if a new Russ kit contained all the different turret types.

Impressed and annoyed, as I already own 4 resin Vanquisher turrets, 3 metal Exterminators turrets, 1 resin Annihilator turret, 1 resin Executioner turret and 6 metal Demolisher turrets on top of all the regular Russes.


And yeah, Hellfury, GW's attempt at explaining why weapons, equipment and vehicles with the same names are different in the fluff is pathetic and screams of utterly laziness and indifference, but are you actually surprised?

I mean, you said it yourself:

They hope, nay expect you to buy a new codex so you can buy all the new nifty crap that is in fact cheaper to field in the new codex.

We've long since known that New Models = New Rules was a design mantra for the dev team. It's only with the Marine Codex that they've taken it to a new level, making you not just change models within the army (ie. regular to Assault Terminators) but actually change betwee armies (ie. no Marines to Marines).

It's New Models = New Rules in its most pure form, so don't for a second act like this is anything new. We've just not seen it on such a scale before.

BYE

Funny that Jervis makes a big deal about how new players (like his son) may get confused about which weapons are which, so he puts all these diagrams in the books.

But surely new players would be more easily confused as to why the Blue Marines equipment does different things than the Green Marines equipment, despite having the exact same name?

H.B.M.C. wrote:...so don't for a second act like this is anything new. We've just not seen it on such a scale before.

Nope nothing new. Neither the attitude from GW nor towards it. But the scale IS what I am referring to.

Like my imaginary GF says: "Its just so....BIG!"

Chad Warden wrote:Funny that Jervis makes a big deal about how new players (like his son) may get confused about which weapons are which, so he puts all these diagrams in the books.

But surely new players would be more easily confused as to why the Blue Marines equipment does different things than the Green Marines equipment, despite having the exact same name?

I've said it before, and I'll repeat it once again.

This isn't a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing, this is a case of the left hand not knowing that the right hand even exists. And the left hand is hamfisted.

Hooray for mixed metephors.

BYE

ChrisAsmadi wrote:I ended up going to one of the Seminars (friend didn't want his ticket), and though pretty pointless (too much time wasted on presentations of stuff we already know, not enough for questions) and though there wasn't any real news, there was one mildly nifty tidbit.

There won't be a combined Inquisition Codex, nor will there be a third, Alienwatch codex. However, apparently will be updated eventually, and will be centered more around Grey Knights and Sisters.

If this is true, than this is piss poor news indeed.

It really isn't that hard to put together a combined Inquisition Codex covering ALL 3 branches, is it?

No, it isn't!

Alpharius wrote:It really isn't that hard to put together a combined Inquisition Codex covering ALL 3 branches, is it?

No, it isn't!

It's easier than putting together an FAQ for DA/BA players it seems.

BYE

Well, that's hard work.

A combined =I= Codex is easy beans compared to that!

Hellfury wrote:Like my imaginary GF says: "Its just so....BIG!"

That's not what she told me about you.

Even my imaginary GF cheat on me.

Thats the last time I will allow Jennifer Connolly into my fantasies...

...I lie. I cant quite her.

A couple of hours on the computer, doing a rewrite with cut and paste entries to glue in over your DA codex, whilst they await the next printing of Codex DA.
(They did it for dark elves a few years ago and it went down a treat)

Blood Angels- 1 hour fixing the PDF

Suddenly all the wargear descriptions are current, the whining is gone and lame excuses are no longer needed.

I'm against BA and DA being in the SM codex.

SM = regular marines (Average in all aspects)
SW = Viking marines (great in all styles)
BT = crusading marines (best at combat)
DA = monastic marines with specialist companies (best termies and bikes)
BA = Barely contained psycopath marines (now with a long awaited jump pack focus)

Hellfury wrote:Even my imaginary GF cheat on me.

Thats the last time I will allow Jennifer Connolly into my fantasies...

...I lie. I cant quite her.

Rocketeer Jennifer Connolly, or A Beautiful Mind Jennifer Connolly?

From a fluff standpoint, the explanation for DA/BA discrepancies is fairly....nope, even I couldn't lipstick that pig.

Jester wrote:From a fluff standpoint, the explanation for DA/BA discrepancies is fairly....nope, even I couldn't lipstick that pig.

Well I had you down as a racist Jester, but never a sexist. I am shocked.


BYE

You can bet your arse I'll be buying that modular table. That thing looks freekin' sweet.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Jester wrote:From a fluff standpoint, the explanation for DA/BA discrepancies is fairly....nope, even I couldn't lipstick that pig.

Well I had you down as a racist Jester, but never a sexist. I am shocked.


BYE

Oh my! Lipstick that ork then?

M.

Jester wrote:

Hellfury wrote:Even my imaginary GF cheat on me.

Thats the last time I will allow Jennifer Connolly into my fantasies...

...I lie. I cant quite her.

Rocketeer Jennifer Connolly, or A Beautiful Mind Jennifer Connolly?

From a fluff standpoint, the explanation for DA/BA discrepancies is fairly....nope, even I couldn't lipstick that pig.

I'd guess A Beautiful Mind.

BA at least have a pretty decent(but still gutted) Codex. Deathwing(and DA in general) just got filth for their latest offering. Between capping their terminator squads at 5, no way for Belial to ride in a normal Land Raider with a Terminator Squad(which is silly since he upgrades a squad to for all intents be his command squad), a general lack of options for Belial and Deathwing Sergeants(no Combi-weapons? Why?). Seeing all the new Space Marine options it's almost demoralizing to own a Deathwing Army.

derek wrote:

Jester wrote:

Hellfury wrote:Even my imaginary GF cheat on me.

Thats the last time I will allow Jennifer Connolly into my fantasies...

...I lie. I cant quite her.

Rocketeer Jennifer Connolly, or A Beautiful Mind Jennifer Connolly?

From a fluff standpoint, the explanation for DA/BA discrepancies is fairly....nope, even I couldn't lipstick that pig.

I'd guess A Beautiful Mind.

BA at least have a pretty decent(but still gutted) Codex. Deathwing(and DA in general) just got filth for their latest offering. Between capping their terminator squads at 5, no way for Belial to ride in a normal Land Raider with a Terminator Squad(which is silly since he upgrades a squad to for all intents be his command squad), a general lack of options for Belial and Deathwing Sergeants(no Combi-weapons? Why?). Seeing all the new Space Marine options it's almost demoralizing to own a Deathwing Army.

Labyrinth actually...

*looks at 14 boxes of termies, of which 60 are done*

Yeah, a bit demoralizing to say the least.

Hellfury wrote:

derek wrote:

Jester wrote:

Hellfury wrote:Even my imaginary GF cheat on me.

Thats the last time I will allow Jennifer Connolly into my fantasies...

...I lie. I cant quite her.

Rocketeer Jennifer Connolly, or A Beautiful Mind Jennifer Connolly?

From a fluff standpoint, the explanation for DA/BA discrepancies is fairly....nope, even I couldn't lipstick that pig.

I'd guess A Beautiful Mind.

BA at least have a pretty decent(but still gutted) Codex. Deathwing(and DA in general) just got filth for their latest offering. Between capping their terminator squads at 5, no way for Belial to ride in a normal Land Raider with a Terminator Squad(which is silly since he upgrades a squad to for all intents be his command squad), a general lack of options for Belial and Deathwing Sergeants(no Combi-weapons? Why?). Seeing all the new Space Marine options it's almost demoralizing to own a Deathwing Army.

Labyrinth actually...

*looks at 14 boxes of termies, of which 60 are done*

Yeah, a bit demoralizing to say the least.

I don't think I've ever seen that movie all the way through in one sitting.

I don't have quite that many, I had around 50 terminators before I sold/traded my metal ones, and the squad I'd outfitted as Deathwatch. I'll probably end up just playing Codex at Adepticon, which kinda sucks, because I didn't really wanted to do more than finish the Land Raider boxes I have sitting waiting to be Deathwingified.

He did come up with an interesting fluff explanation though.... His point was that this is basically different gear, not all CMLs or storm shields are created equal and the price you pay for not being a codex chapter and wearing hippy robes or holding dark secrets is that you don’t get all the latest toys from his nibs...

- I am sorry that is frigging priceless. I am sure all of the DA & BA players are going to love this.

The idea of two bits of equipment that look identical but have totally different stats flies in the face of WYSIWYG ...spits in the face of WYSIWYG and then smashes straight through the face of WYSIWYG.

After all the attempts to streamline codexes and wargear, including a book of wargear you'll remember, this throws it all out the window. I'm really surprised that they've done this. A simple FAQ update would not imbalance DA/BA/BT/C:CSM and would add some nice new toys and options. Alternatively, why did they have to mess around with the stats if they weren't prepared to make them standard across the range? I'm sure players with older codexes would not mind these updates, and if they were simply trying to increase use/sales of certain unpopular units then why not cash in on the older codex players too? Dumb.

Has anyone got any good pics of the new farsight?

Oh, and JC in Dark City.

derek wrote:

Jester wrote:

Hellfury wrote:Even my imaginary GF cheat on me.

Thats the last time I will allow Jennifer Connolly into my fantasies...

...I lie. I cant quite her.

Rocketeer Jennifer Connolly, or A Beautiful Mind Jennifer Connolly?

From a fluff standpoint, the explanation for DA/BA discrepancies is fairly....nope, even I couldn't lipstick that pig.

I'd guess A Beautiful Mind.

BA at least have a pretty decent(but still gutted) Codex. Deathwing(and DA in general) just got filth for their latest offering. Between capping their terminator squads at 5, no way for Belial to ride in a normal Land Raider with a Terminator Squad(which is silly since he upgrades a squad to for all intents be his command squad), a general lack of options for Belial and Deathwing Sergeants(no Combi-weapons? Why?). Seeing all the new Space Marine options it's almost demoralizing to own a Deathwing Army.

Bzzzzt!

Wrong answer!

ROCKETEER Jennifer Connolly by far!

Mick A wrote:At first I thought the terrain boards sounded like a rip off but having looked at them and held them I'm starting to think they are a good idea. As they work out to around £16.66 per board thats not to bad.
The only drawbacks I can see to them are-
1) guess range weapons will be a lot more deadly (hmmm, this boards 2'x2' I'm at the base edge your on the join line...)
2) do you really need areas full of skulls for every game you play?
3) transporting them once they are painted and flocked, as they are hard plastic it will be easy to chip all your hard work off...
Overall the show was ok but no big releases unless you were a Marine player, mind you I went through about £200...
Mick

Guessing Ranges gets dead easy after a few games anyway. Before long, every player has their own system.

ChrisAsmadi wrote:There won't be a combined Inquisition Codex, nor will there be a third, Alienwatch codex. However, apparently will be updated eventually, and will be centered more around Grey Knights and Sisters.

So there will be a combined codex but it'll only combine two orders (Hereticus and Malleus). That''ll be another blow for Deathwatch then, unless they're in there as a Legion of the Damned style special unit.

My guess is that aliies won't be in it either.

Evil Eli wrote:

He did come up with an interesting fluff explanation though.... His point was that this is basically different gear, not all CMLs or storm shields are created equal and the price you pay for not being a codex chapter and wearing hippy robes or holding dark secrets is that you don’t get all the latest toys from his nibs...

- I am sorry that is frigging priceless. I am sure all of the DA & BA players are going to love this.

To be fair to Alessio, that was me sumarizing his point. He didn't actually utter the words "Hippy Robes" at any time... Although I think it would have sounded ace in his italian accent..

fitzeh wrote:

Evil Eli wrote:

He did come up with an interesting fluff explanation though.... His point was that this is basically different gear, not all CMLs or storm shields are created equal and the price you pay for not being a codex chapter and wearing hippy robes or holding dark secrets is that you don’t get all the latest toys from his nibs...

- I am sorry that is frigging priceless. I am sure all of the DA & BA players are going to love this.

To be fair to Alessio, that was me sumarizing his point. He didn't actually utter the words "Hippy Robes" at any time... Although I think it would have sounded ace in his italian accent..

Whoa!

TMI my friend, TMI...

You know I never really heard people bitch about the Silver Marines having shittier versions of the EXACT same weapons the last rendition of Blue Marines got (and subsequently, the Black Marines, the Green Marines, and the Red Marines).

And they still do! They're now TWO generations behind. Tis a bold man that bitches about his 'obsolete' BA/DA codex within arms reach of a Grey Knight player.


Well, provided Grey Knight players actually existed, that is.

yeah
Good pictures thanx!

that board looks awesome!
and it looks like parts of it are flat enough to place the existing hills.

the join on the second table where the hills are butted up against each other looks poor... i'm hoping that's just how the staff set it up


but it's got a big hill sat onto of the edge hill... if that makes sense?

I want a set... but i probabily want more than 6 tiles... 8 would be good.
looks like i'll be buying two sets... god i'm weak...

PAnic

Edit: has anyone got more pictures of these? or seen them somewhere else on the interweb?

Weak and rich apparently...

Alpharius: just no, ok?

BobTheZombie wrote:Don't have much in the ways of news I'm afraid- although from the way Jervis was talking about Dark Eldar, it sounded like they haven't even started work on them yet. LatD won't even be considered until the existing armies are all redone, alas.

Regarding DE, keep in mind that GW designers *always* downplay where they stand on a project if they've begun working on it. They may not be actively working on DE at the moment, mind you. But if they are, they'd likely just act like things are still in the conceptual stages.

Labyrinth actually...

Huh, I woulda guessed Requiem for a Dream Jennifer (dirty girl).

Good lord. It's shocking how ridiculously stupid those games designers can be.
Just make one bloody codex for all marines for God's sake. I don't care if it's twice as big as normal or whatever, just release it!
As for inquisition armies, well, to be honest as a Xenos Player I was always worried about what GW would do if they tried to make a Xenos killing army. I had nightmare visions of preferred enemy-with-shooting-and-combat marines backed up by wierd henchmen that drop all Xenos weapons to S2 and leadership to 3.

Sounds like a plan!

Seriuosly though, I'd love to finally see a proper Ordo Xenos list, though I know we most likely never will...

Da Boss wrote:Good lord. It's shocking how ridiculously stupid those games designers can be.
Just make one bloody codex for all marines for God's sake. I don't care if it's twice as big as normal or whatever, just release it!

And what of all the different marine players who suddenly feel they have "lost" their armies
and if DA or BT or CSM or whoever get pushed ahead of their slot in the release scheduel...think of the uproar then

FAQs don't work for major changes because people will "omit" them or "forget" them or have different versions meaning more conflicts. I think it all makes sense from a "best route for the masses" approach

I guess this is just a situation of not being able to please all of the people all the time. Instead of focusing on the negatives people should maybe look at the positives.

GamesDay was a blast this year- I don't have much to add really- was pretty awesome all round and I look forward to next year

winterman wrote:

Labyrinth actually...

Huh, I woulda guessed Requiem for a Dream Jennifer (dirty girl).

That makes me sad. Jester would totally never take advantage of Jennifer Connelly in
that way. At least, that's not what he tells me at night...

Ziterdes made some modular tables, too, but shipping from Germany plus Euro exchange
rate made the prospect a lot of frightening.

Question about the modular table: how is it underneath? Is it vacuum formed and
hollow underneath or is there something that gives it a bit of solid base to sit on? I'm
guessing that it's hollow and they rely on the clips to keep the thing stable, but who knows...

the second one in this set here shows the underside...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30119658@N08/sets/72157607301632063/

The pics Fitzeh posted up showed it honeycombed underneath, so I guess they'll be pretty solid.

Can anyone allude as to how thick the plastic is? Are talking horribly thin, or same thickness as the hills?

If it's decent thickness, I think I'll be buying me a set.

I think a combined inquisition army would be the best approach to it from a game balance standpoint. (From a fluff standpoint Inquisitorial detachments for imperial forces make the most sense, but they're hard to balance.)
I don't hate ordo xenos (my planned Dark Heresy game will revolve around them actually!) but I think they'd be hard to balance as a stand alone, just like Daemonhunters were.

Bignutter: I my veiw those marine players can suck it up. You didn't hear too much winging from us orks when ferals and speed freaks got dropped/mashed into the one codex.
The proliferation of MEQs is the worst thing about 40K as a game. Now the bloody MEQs aren't even consistent across the board, so it's even more fun.
(By fun I mean it's like getting cholera when you're on holidays)

Alpharius wrote:Sounds like a plan!

Seriuosly though, I'd love to finally see a proper Ordo Xenos list, though I know we most likely never will...

I have always thought that what Space Marines were for, killing aliens. It never really made sense to me for there to be a separte Ordo list just for killing aliens.



Oh and JC in Dark City. The Hotness!

I would equate the thickness to about the same as the thickness of the cut-out movement trays. Seemed pretty sturdy to me.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:The pics Fitzeh posted up showed it honeycombed underneath, so I guess they'll be pretty solid.

Can anyone allude as to how thick the plastic is? Are talking horribly thin, or same thickness as the hills?

If it's decent thickness, I think I'll be buying me a set.

fitzeh wrote:I would equate the thickness to about the same as the thickness of the cut-out movement trays. Seemed pretty sturdy to me.

The plastic is harder than that of miniature sprues. it is more like that of the shuttle of the battle of macragge starter set or the current big hills set.

AlexCage wrote:You know I never really heard people bitch about the Silver Marines having shittier versions of the EXACT same weapons the last rendition of Blue Marines got (and subsequently, the Black Marines, the Green Marines, and the Red Marines).

And they still do! They're now TWO generations behind. Tis a bold man that bitches about his 'obsolete' BA/DA codex within arms reach of a Grey Knight player.


Well, provided Grey Knight players actually existed, that is.

They did, pretty loudly. And still do, it was discussed back when the last codex Space Marines came out, and was just as disappointing for DH players then as it is for everyone now. DH/WH should still get the updated Land Raider and weapon profiles for whatever they have in their codex, and it's something that should have been updated a long time ago. I really hate Games-Workshops codex release schedule, they should have done what they did with the 3rd edition launch and release them all within a few months of the rulebook, then use the release schedule for models. Anything in the codex that isn't in the range? Convert it yourself. Chaos players did this with Defilers, Dark Eldar still do this with Decapitator, etc. The one bright side, if you can count it as one, is that Grey Knights got the latest version of the Machine Spirit in their FAQ.

Well as a DA player I'll just take it on my super human chin. GW just wont be getting my hard earned for their shiny new toys. I'll just have to spend it on food for the kids , or something. I can see a point about update s and faqs , that not everyone has a computer or buys WD so its not a even playingfield if not everyone is aware of changes. But whats wrong with a Codex update book , they had no trouble making a apoc reload did they. Or heres one I always thought was a good idea. Why not put a sheet in the box of the new weapon/unit, With some fluff , rules, and general info and points price for each chapter on it.

Evil Eli wrote:

Alpharius wrote:Sounds like a plan!

Seriuosly though, I'd love to finally see a proper Ordo Xenos list, though I know we most likely never will...

I have always thought that what Space Marines were for, killing aliens. It never really made sense to me for there to be a separte Ordo list just for killing aliens.

I know this is hard to believe at times, but the Marines aren't everywhere, all the time!

The Ordo Xenos Inquistors and agents are spread throughout the Imperium, working with whatever forces are available to insure that the citizens aren't getting too comfortable with the dirty aliens and/or being infiltrated by them for nefarious purposes...

George Spiggott wrote:

ChrisAsmadi wrote:There won't be a combined Inquisition Codex, nor will there be a third, Alienwatch codex. However, apparently will be updated eventually, and will be centered more around Grey Knights and Sisters.

So there will be a combined codex but it'll only combine two orders (Hereticus and Malleus). That''ll be another blow for Deathwatch then, unless they're in there as a Legion of the Damned style special unit.

My guess is that aliies won't be in it either.

No, from what I understood, it'd be two codexes.

And Deathwatch are in the Space Marine 'dex in a LotD fashion, in spirit atleast, if not name.

vodski wrote: Or heres one I always thought was a good idea. Why not put a sheet in the box of the new weapon/unit, With some fluff , rules, and general info and points price for each chapter on it.

If I remember right(as in 10+ years ago), they used to do this. Somewhere I have a 2nd ed rules sheet for an Imperial Fist's box I bought, and also a Leman Russ one from an old style box I got from Ebay.

Yeah back in second ed you got rules with boxes for vehicles and stuff sometimes.
But that was just because the release scheduale was actually even worse back then than it is now.
Oh the joy of references to codices that didn't exist, and would in fact never exist.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Alpharius wrote:It really isn't that hard to put together a combined Inquisition Codex covering ALL 3 branches, is it?

No, it isn't!

It's easier than putting together an FAQ for DA/BA players it seems.

BYE

The difference between a code and an FAQ is £12 retail sale value.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:The pics Fitzeh posted up showed it honeycombed underneath, so I guess they'll be pretty solid.

Can anyone allude as to how thick the plastic is? Are talking horribly thin, or same thickness as the hills?

If it's decent thickness, I think I'll be buying me a set.

It looks like a big chunk of polystyrene. The walls are probably about 1-2mm thick. It will be strong enough to put models on but you would be well advised not to lean on heavily with your elbow.

Evil Eli wrote:

Alpharius wrote:Sounds like a plan!

Seriuosly though, I'd love to finally see a proper Ordo Xenos list, though I know we most likely never will...

I have always thought that what Space Marines were for, killing aliens. It never really made sense to me for there to be a separte Ordo list just for killing aliens.

The description of Inquisitor Kryptmann's activities in the Tyranid Codex gives a pretty good idea of what exactly the Ordo Xenos is about.

Any idea on a price range of that modular table?

Aduro wrote:Any idea on a price range of that modular table?

As posted elsewhere in the thread, we're looking at a bargain price of £100 for that 'table'.

BYE

So it was! And in the first post even! In my defense that first post is really long, and completely lacks pretty pictures like that one that made me take interest of the table. Now excuse me while I go play with that shiny object I just noticed over in the corner.

Well those pics of the underside make it look pretty good.

I think we might as well admit the Ordos Xenos doesn't really exist. That's why is doesn't get any attention. Sorry to burst the bubble.

Well it would exist if GW didn't have a penchant for changing horses mid-race.

"What's our design philosophy this quarter?" must be a regular question over there.

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:"What's our design philosophy this quarter?"

Answer: "What does the GW magic 8-ball say?"

Jervis Johnson = Lord of Change ???!!!?

fitzeh wrote:I would equate the thickness to about the same as the thickness of the cut-out movement trays. Seemed pretty sturdy to me.

Good stuff. Looks like I'll be buying me one then.

Hope the spray gun is released by then. Don't much fancy painting that entirely by hand....

Thought I'd had seen that updated release date for the spray gun is October 18.

AJC

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

fitzeh wrote:I would equate the thickness to about the same as the thickness of the cut-out movement trays. Seemed pretty sturdy to me.

Good stuff. Looks like I'll be buying me one then.

Hope the spray gun is released by then. Don't much fancy painting that entirely by hand....

You don't need an official GW spray gun to paint a terrain board. Just get a clip-on pistol handle for standard spray cans.

Or just use the spray can!

Or use a really, really big brush!

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Ozymandias wrote:Or just use the spray can!

Or use a really, really big brush!

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Do any of these look like hand flamers?

If not, I'm out.

I'm glad to have seen the pics and not had to travel all the way to Birmingham to be disappointed. Games Day is cool and all, but there just seems to be more and more kids running around.

and all I wanted was a plastic killa kan...any rumours?