Got my November WD last night and found a subscription price increase notice inside.

New Subscriptions are now $80.00 dollars for 12 issues and renewals are $75 dollars for 12 issues. Also noticed that the single issue price is going to be $8.00 dollars.

Ouch, another cut into my limited funds.

Warrior 50

As the economy around the world falls prices will go up.simple mechanics.

Wow!

Ballsy move by GW, especially considering the recent track record of the magazine, and the as of yet unfulfilled promise to make WD worth reading again...

and the answer is....

Don't buy it.

If you really need to look at pretty adverts just go and get the flyers from your local store.

also I imagine $8.00 would buy quite a lot of loo roll, though not in britain where it's equivalent to what, 40p?

I will be buying WD even less than I do now (which is rarely). Is anyone still going to buy WD (I'm seriously asking this to people here)?

Isn't this one of those "oops, I shot myself in the leg" moments?

theHandofGork wrote:I will be buying WD even less than I do now (which is rarely). Is anyone still going to buy WD (I'm seriously asking this to people here)?

I probably will, but I'll probably be more selective and not buy every month.

Platuan4th wrote:I probably will, but I'll probably be more selective and not buy every month.

Enter: polybags every month, with or without freebies...

Haven't bought one in 4 years now, not going to start.

ZamboniKnight wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:I probably will, but I'll probably be more selective and not buy every month.

Enter: polybags every month, with or without freebies...

Enter: Online reviews every month, like there are already...

Wow, this just further justifies my decision not to spend money on glossy toilet paper.

Ah, but nothing else gives your backend that just-home-from-the-showroom-shine like glossy toilet paper.

Good lord this is hilarious.

Its not worth buying in the first place, and now they are charging even more for the advertisements you pay for.

Yeah, I understand price increases, but this is silly. if anything the price should be dropped, not increased.

In todays economy, they expect this magazine to command premium prices, but yet give substandard quality.

Sorry GW, it was nice when you gave out models in the mag, but this isn't going to fly. Good luck with that.

Of course when the economy gets better the prices arent going down.

Yeah, this is the first time for me that GW has truly priced itself out of what I'm willing to spend. While there have been hints and a vague feeling that WD is getting better, the 40k content is still incredibly weak and fundamentally uninteresting. I simply don't play WFB, although I tend to enjoy the articles, while LOTR gets the best content, month in and month out, for a system that I not only don't play, but realistically couldn't play for lack of players.

At $6, I bought if for some light reading and to support my FLGS a tiny bit. With GW rolling out models that I'm interested in with new Space marines, IG around the corner and the prospect of Planet Strike, I'd rather buy for those than pay for WD. I could buy WD or a reaper mini, or a few pots of paint, or a nice brush, etc.

In GW's defense, niche hobby magazines tend to be pricy, however most include content that's both highly useful and unavailable readily online. I'm sorry, but my days of simply buying White Dwarf out of habit are over. I'm hoping they make it relevant again, because i would gladly pay $8 for truly interesting and useful hobby content... .but I"m not holding my breath.

I miss the old WD's, back when they were a trove of good stuff and laughs, not the bland trice-checked for funnies that we have today.

The first White Dwarf that really made an impression on me was because of it's 40k battle report. It was in the 150's and feature Ragnar Blackman, Ulrik the Slayer, and Njal Stormcaller leading their Space Wolves against Ghazkhull Thraka. The BatRep was written as if it was a novel though. No mention was made of dice rolls or specific measurements. It was FANTASTIC! Then I think it was issue 170 which featured an amazing Dark Angels army. The army was small but featured the Dark Green clad Marines in a uniform that was set off by it's blazing yellow/orange/red trim. As it's centerpiece, stood a dreadnaught with a hand painted angel on it's armor that was repeated upon it's banner. Where these features are now, I don't know. I mostly pick up White Dwarf now on an infrequent basis and only to see what's going on in the realm of GW.

This is just another reason not buy this poor product. I mean the rumor I heard that all the codex supported Marines were getting WD codex redoes to satisfy the fact Codex Marines changed things, might make up things a bit but only for those limited number of players.

This could be some of the first effects of the economic crisis is having on gw, it is bound to happen at some point gw being in the recreation sector and therefore must likely to suffer during a recession. Other than that and budgeting issues i cant see another reason why they would do this. It could be just another 'exploit our huge share in the market' maneuver but I don't think gw are that stupid considering the current economic climate any price change at this time will need to be a necessity surely.

Is there any magazine that is more expensive for a yearly subscription than White Dwarf? Seriously, I want to know.

Is there any magazine that is as expensive or more expensive than White Dwarf, that has as little actual content as WD?

The expense was unjustifiable before the price went up. GW is getting increasingly out of touch. They jack up prices as though their fans' lives depend on the purchase of these fundamentally useless nic-nacs. This may be a fun hobby, but it is just a hobby. If/when expenses get tight, this hobby is the first thing many rational people will cut out of their budget. Let them try to price gouge. They need to be humbled.

Seeing how little/none advertisements there are in WD from companies other then the people publishing it, I think WD is more of a company newsletter then a magazine.

One hobby mag I readily pick up is Fine Scale Modeler. Fantastic hobby content.

I still subscribe, but this will make me think twice about renewing... it has been wretched for a while now, but I stuck around for the little hobby coverage and the new Marines and 5th edition info... past that it is sorely lacking in redeeming features.

The old stuff is better in most cases, especially seeing as it was more messy back then. A little bit of an odd bunch of scenarios here, an army showcase there, a scenery workshop by Nigel Stillman on top and what do we get? Something fun that makes reading through those 80+ pages fun. The battle reports might look clunkier back then but at least they weren't so driven at promoting the crap of the month.

Archonate wrote:The expense was unjustifiable before the price went up. GW is getting increasingly out of touch. They jack up prices as though their fans' lives depend on the purchase of these fundamentally useless nic-nacs. This may be a fun hobby, but it is just a hobby. If/when expenses get tight, this hobby is the first thing many rational people will cut out of their budget. Let them try to price gouge. They need to be humbled.

Yes because its all them being jerks.

EDITED by FRAZZLED to keep thread from degenerating into flamewar.

whatwhat wrote:This could be some of the first effects of the economic crisis is having on gw, it is bound to happen at some point gw being in the recreation sector and therefore must likely to suffer during a recession. Other than that and budgeting issues i cant see another reason why they would do this. It could be just another 'exploit our huge share in the market' maneuver but I don't think gw are that stupid considering the current economic climate any price change at this time will need to be a necessity surely.

I beg to differ.
During times of recession or depression, forms of egress (escapism, don't delude yourself that hobbies aren't a form of escapism) do quite well in those climes. While it isn't burgeoning by any means during such times, they certainly aren't hit nearly as bad as say other forms of industry. Industries such as essentials which are forced to increase prices. Or industries such as cookware, furniture, etc which aren't considered a necessity until they HAVE to become replaced due to ruin when money can be better spent elsewhere.

Look at nickelodeons during the depression. The movie industry certainly wasn't in any bad shape during that time. It was a comparatively cheap way to pass rough times.

Price increases are warranted, but price increases for a substandard advertisement promoted as a "product" is laughable at best.

Hellfury wrote:

whatwhat wrote:This could be some of the first effects of the economic crisis is having on gw, it is bound to happen at some point gw being in the recreation sector and therefore must likely to suffer during a recession. Other than that and budgeting issues i cant see another reason why they would do this. It could be just another 'exploit our huge share in the market' maneuver but I don't think gw are that stupid considering the current economic climate any price change at this time will need to be a necessity surely.

I beg to differ.
During times of recession or depression, forms of egress (escapism, don't delude yourself that hobbies aren't a form of escapism) do quite well in those climes. While it isn't burgeoning by any means during such times, they certainly aren't hit nearly as bad as say other forms of industry. Industries such as essentials which are forced to increase prices. Or industries such as cookware, furniture, etc which aren't considered a necessity until they HAVE to become replaced due to ruin when money can be better spent elsewhere.

Look at nickelodeons during the depression. The movie industry certainly wasn't in any bad shape during that time. It was a comparatively cheap way to pass rough times.

Price increases are warranted, but price increases for a substandard advertisement promoted as a "product" is laughable at best.

And that hole post mean jack gak. GW is a company based around a HOBBY, with the economy crashing the way it is less people buy more models, less people buying means they are not making money, if there not making money they have to increase there prices so they can still pay there employees.

Odds are that GW will offer holiday specials on WD subs like they do every year, so wait until then if you want to renew.

Modquisition Mode on.
Lets simmer down now in addressing other posters before this thread derails. Jokergod specifically please modify your language in future posts
If there are further reports I'll shut this thread down.

Modquisition Mode off.

When was the last time something useful was even in a WD that you couldn't just get off their website? The free snap-together Terminator?

I'm very new to the hobby (started playing in July) and the couple of WD mags I've recieved have been all right. I do admit that the interviews seem to be "tell us why to buy more stuff." However I really enjoy the Battle Reports & the 40k army building section.

However, I doubt I'll renew with the price increase, sometimes I just have to take a stand.

Welcome to our great hobby, asugradinwa.

A lot of us have been collecting and reading WD for what seems like millenia now. My collection of WD starts consecutively at 136 through the current one, with a sizeable pile before the 136.

WD can be good and many of us look at the issues published from 2003 thru late 2005 to be some real dandies, but as of late they've been real disappointers. They just don't have the strong content as they used to and when it comes to making decisions on what to purchase, WD isn't on top anymore compared to picking up some paints or other needed items.

My reading enjoyment of WD last less than 30 minutes these days, when in the old days, it would take days to digest all the info and cool stuff presented.

It disappoints me to see the price go up. I was on the edge of a decision to renew and the bump in price is enough for me not to renew.

Not enough quality content to retain this Uber-Veteran Hobbyist. I am writing on a letter to send to GW management regarding where WD has come from and gone to and who its left behind.

Fabricator General wrote:A lot of us have been collecting and reading WD for what seems like millenia now. My collection of WD starts consecutively at 136 through the current one, with a sizeable pile before the 136.

Somewhat the same, at about 148, but I ended up buying a pile of back issues over bartertown, many of which I read more now that newer issues.

Fabricator General wrote:WD can be good and many of us look at the issues published from 2003 thru late 2005 to be some real dandies, but as of late they've been real disappointers. They just don't have the strong content as they used to and when it comes to making decisions on what to purchase, WD isn't on top anymore compared to picking up some paints or other needed items.

They've cut back woefully of late, around the time the mag had no editor, and produced just a few bare-bones issues. The Battle for Black Reach issue was particularly dire, focusing solely on the new box set. Understandable from a business point of view, but none of the content came close to the depth of the material produced when the big 40K2 box set was released or the 40K3 release in WD 228.

Fabricator General wrote:My reading enjoyment of WD last less than 30 minutes these days, when in the old days, it would take days to digest all the info and cool stuff presented.

Agreed. Once they stopped paying for fan-submitted content, that was the beginning of the end. Everything else was staff-only, which was mostly one-shot stuff. If they doubled down on painting articles and army showcases I wouldn't care that much but they haven't, and the drop in quality shows.

Fabricator General wrote:It disappoints me to see the price go up. I was on the edge of a decision to renew and the bump in price is enough for me not to renew.

Quoted for truth. White Dwarf is the only GW product I buy regularly, and this looks like this is the end for me. I might see if I can take out a subscription at the old price, but I doubt it. Too bad it was one of the few things I bought at my local store.

Fabricator General wrote:Not enough quality content to retain this Uber-Veteran Hobbyist. I am writing on a letter to send to GW management regarding where WD has come from and gone to and who its left behind.

Color me cynical, but I'm somewhat amazed you've been in the hobby this long, and still think they'll care...

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

I've been reading since #95 but lost interest in WD around #300 or so. It became a glorified catalog to me. Was hopefull for the new changes hinted at by Jervis and others, but just don't feel like paying for those changes.

The only reason I've found to crack open a WD lately was the pics of the new ork Battlewagon - but even then that was shown somewhere on the net and my need to see the pic was satisfied.

There are so many other great scale modeling magazines and so many talented folks out there willing to share their techniques that my reasons to buy a WD has really plummeted. I bought the last one with the free minis in it to enter a painting contest and because a free mini is a free mini, but the magazine itself wasn;t anything compared to the dozens of old issues I keep around for inspiration and painting technique.

8 bucks seems just too high. I can skip a couple issues and get a nicely sculpted figure like Pedro Kantor? Yeah, I think I'd rather do that.

while I agree with a lot of you that the mag has really gone down in quality, I will continue to buy it. I love the painting and modeling side of things. However, I don't game, so I don't often get a chance to talk about the hobby(I'm sure my lovely wife has heard more about Chaos space marines then she ever wanted to) Thats way I always buy a WD at my local hobby store. It gives me a reason to stop in, shoot the breeze and maybe buy some new models. Sure the mag isn't what it used to be, but it helps to keep me connected with the hobby.

GrimTeef wrote:The only reason I've found to crack open a WD lately was the pics of the new ork Battlewagon - but even then that was shown somewhere on the net and my need to see the pic was satisfied.

Pics of the new plastic Ork Battlewagon online?

Link?

Please?

JokerGod wrote:

Hellfury wrote:

whatwhat wrote:This could be some of the first effects of the economic crisis is having on gw, it is bound to happen at some point gw being in the recreation sector and therefore must likely to suffer during a recession. Other than that and budgeting issues i cant see another reason why they would do this. It could be just another 'exploit our huge share in the market' maneuver but I don't think gw are that stupid considering the current economic climate any price change at this time will need to be a necessity surely.

I beg to differ.
During times of recession or depression, forms of egress (escapism, don't delude yourself that hobbies aren't a form of escapism) do quite well in those climes. While it isn't burgeoning by any means during such times, they certainly aren't hit nearly as bad as say other forms of industry. Industries such as essentials which are forced to increase prices. Or industries such as cookware, furniture, etc which aren't considered a necessity until they HAVE to become replaced due to ruin when money can be better spent elsewhere.

Look at nickelodeons during the depression. The movie industry certainly wasn't in any bad shape during that time. It was a comparatively cheap way to pass rough times.

Price increases are warranted, but price increases for a substandard advertisement promoted as a "product" is laughable at best.

And that hole post mean jack gak. GW is a company based around a HOBBY, with the economy crashing the way it is less people buy more models, less people buying means they are not making money, if there not making money they have to increase there prices so they can still pay there employees.

I never said that people wouldn't be buying less models, Thats obvious and goes without saying. You seem to have reading comprehension issues.
Allow me to repeat myself. In times of economic recession, industries that revolve around egress tend to do better than industries that do not.

I pointed out that price increases are warranted, but in this case, increasing the price for a supposed 'product' are just as ridiculous as the posts you make.

Saying my post doesnt mean jack gak doesn't change that fact.

They're just taking the piss. When it jumped up to £4 here in the UK people couldn't believe it, and god knows what it will cost now. I used to be a habit buyer but it can burn now. Maybe this will provoke some kind of backlash, but I'm not confident. Lets see what happens.

Anti-Mag wrote:They're just taking the piss. When it jumped up to £4 here in the UK people couldn't believe it, and god knows what it will cost now. I used to be a habit buyer but it can burn now. Maybe this will provoke some kind of backlash, but I'm not confident. Lets see what happens.

The £4 was the wake up call for me. I used to buy every one, up to about #250, after that I began to wind down a bit and get every other issue up to around #280 when I really did only buy them on an occasional basis. But I always told myself if it went up to £4 I wouldn't buy, and that's pretty much been the case. The only issue I bought for £4 for #300 as it was extra large and had a few genuinely interesting things in it.

Hellfury wrote:

JokerGod wrote:

Hellfury wrote:

whatwhat wrote:This could be some of the first effects of the economic crisis is having on gw, it is bound to happen at some point gw being in the recreation sector and therefore must likely to suffer during a recession. Other than that and budgeting issues i cant see another reason why they would do this. It could be just another 'exploit our huge share in the market' maneuver but I don't think gw are that stupid considering the current economic climate any price change at this time will need to be a necessity surely.

I beg to differ.
During times of recession or depression, forms of egress (escapism, don't delude yourself that hobbies aren't a form of escapism) do quite well in those climes. While it isn't burgeoning by any means during such times, they certainly aren't hit nearly as bad as say other forms of industry. Industries such as essentials which are forced to increase prices. Or industries such as cookware, furniture, etc which aren't considered a necessity until they HAVE to become replaced due to ruin when money can be better spent elsewhere.

Look at nickelodeons during the depression. The movie industry certainly wasn't in any bad shape during that time. It was a comparatively cheap way to pass rough times.

Price increases are warranted, but price increases for a substandard advertisement promoted as a "product" is laughable at best.

And that hole post mean jack gak. GW is a company based around a HOBBY, with the economy crashing the way it is less people buy more models, less people buying means they are not making money, if there not making money they have to increase there prices so they can still pay there employees.

I never said that people wouldn't be buying less models, Thats obvious and goes without saying. You seem to have reading comprehension issues.
Allow me to repeat myself. In times of economic recession, industries that revolve around egress tend to do better than industries that do not.

I pointed out that price increases are warranted, but in this case, increasing the price for a supposed 'product' are just as ridiculous as the posts you make.

Saying my post doesnt mean jack gak doesn't change that fact.

Dont confuse the media industry with the recreation sector, totally different issues.

If GW aren't considering the effects of the financial crisis, they're fools.

I used to have a subscription back in the day (Before 4th edition), didn't see a need to renew it then. The mag became something that I wasn't looking forward to reading when it showed up. I don't see a need to setup a subscription now, nor buy it at the store. The only White Dwarf's I've bought in probably the last 2-3 years were the two Blood Angel codex issues. If they release other armies codexes through WD, I'll buy them too. Other than that I have no need. Painting technique advice I can get from people at the store or the lovely people here on Dakka. Same thing with modelling/conversion advice. Was there ever a WD article on how to magnetize a turret or how to install LED's into a Rhino? New release announcements I find here well before they are mentioned in WD. There used to be monthly FAQ's for rules in WD. There used to be army showcases of people's armies that weren't employees. There used to be scenarios and custom missions and all kinds of useful gaming product in it. Where'd that all go GW?

I'm not paying the current price for your glorified catalog. I'm not paying the raised price for it either.

What would be interesting to see is the costs/revenue report for JUST the WD side of the business...

Someone's buying WD. I see it all over the place in newsagents.

BTW home recreation hobbies tend to do well in recessions, because they are cheaper than going out. It's like instead of going to the cinema and a meal out, you rent a DVD and have a pizza delivered.

yeah,
£5 (or whatever they decide to charge) a month oh noes! I can't afford this hobby mag anymore. your in the wrong hobby.

Well you can all call me a fanboi, I love reading WD.
If you don't want to buy it? don't... but do you have to cry like little girls about your nots buyings somethings you don't wants?

Yeah the old ones seemed better... that's nostalgia!
I now gets to tell you all My favourite interwebs quote "nostalgia isn't as god as it used to be!"... get over it

If you think you can make a better magazine with more content, make your own fanzine I'd love to read it.
But what do you want?
more reader armies? you can see all the armies you want online? they can't compete with the internet on this front.
more fiction and short stories, they don't do that any more because now you can go buy a BL novel.

What is it you think they should actualy be doing? that they are not?

Glorified catalgue? if they weren't showing you their products what would they show you? rackhams? your just stupid.
Personnelly i like the focus they have, showing me what's coming and what's out, what their selling next month or the month after... I want to Know...
Confirming all the rumors, telling you how it is from inside the company. the direction things are going.

Grow up!

PaniC...

I've not bought a White Dwarf since 303. This changes nothing.

Panic wrote:your just stupid.

Panic wrote:yeah,
Glorified catalgue? if they weren't showing you their products what would they show you? rackhams? your just stupid.
Personnelly i like the focus they have, showing me what's coming and what's out, what their selling next month or the month after... I want to Know...
Confirming all the rumors, telling you how it is from inside the company. the direction things are going.

Grow up!

PaniC...

The difference is not nostalgia, its lack of content. If everything is about selling the next mini, that’s not a magazine, that’s a catalog. I have no problem with catalogs. I get gobs of catalogs, but I would never pay for them. That’s why I quit procuring WD years ago, its just a catalog at this point. To be worthwhile they have to actually have content. Where’s the old content?

*Variant lists
*Fluff for established or new races.
*New missions for play
*FAQ’s or clarifications
*New hobby pieces and master level events.
*Tacticals-real tacticals not “buy our new stuff” dreck.
*Discussions from Specialist Games lines.




As an aside, I find it particularly interesting when you're throwing insults about, yet spelling and punctuation seem to elude you.

Frazzled wrote:
The difference is not nostalgia, its lack of content. If everything is about selling the next mini, that’s not a magazine, that’s a catalog. I have no problem with catalogs. I get gobs of catalogs, but I would never pay for them. That’s why I quit procuring WD years ago, its just a catalog at this point. To be worthwhile they have to actually have content. Where’s the old content?
...
As an aside, I find it particularly interesting when you're throwing insults about, yet spelling and punctuation seem to elude you.

*Variant lists this always creates more trouble than it's worth, when it's no longer supported. like the harliquins lists.

*Fluff for established or new races. buy a BL novel

*New missions for play Yes this would be good.

*FAQ’s or clarifications Yes this would be good.

*New hobby pieces and master level events. ? sorry i'm not sure what you mean?

*Tacticals-real tacticals not “buy our new stuff” dreck. Any Tactics is going to involve their models (buy our stuff?) and I'd rather read tactics involving the new stuff, so i can get a feel for how it works? rather than how to use a rhino?

*Discussions from Specialist Games lines. People already moan when theres coverage of LOTRs (I'm guessing because it doesn't have warhammer in it's Box name/title) etc...so how will diluting their 40ks even more help make WD better in their eyes? But I agree with you I'd love to see bloodbowl, spacehulk, necromunda return... I'd make them mainstream WD... Two Space hulk missions a year would deffinently make me smile. but all the moaning crew will only see it as another reason not to buy WD- "I don't play space hulk I'm not buying this GW catalogue"

My spellings bad and i can't be bothered to copy and paste in and out of dakka to use a spell checker... you'll have to learn to deal with that.

Panic...

Panic wrote:
My spellings bad and i can't be bothered to copy and paste in and out of dakka to use a spell checker... you'll have to learn to deal with that.

Panic...

Yeah, I think the saying here is don't throw rocks in glass houses..

yeah,
How do you work that out?
I'm challenging peoples stupid crying about something they don't buy?
How does that compare to my lack of spelling/grammer skills?

Panic...

Edit:
Are you guys implying that only those with perfect spelling/grammer can throw insults? again don't be stupid.

You don't work for WD do you?

There's nothing wrong with criticism of a publication that has obviously been going downhill for sometime. Games Workshop is an expensive hobby, and a labour of love. There's simply no excuse for its current lack of content. If they produce a good magazine years ago, they can do it now.

@Panic:

First, poor spelling and grammar is generally a way of showing that you, while posting, put very little time/thought/effort into expressing your ideas, and thus it's not hard to come to the conclusion that since even you don't think they're worth much, why should we.

Second, while most people would have to deal with your attitude by ignoring it, the learned Frazzled is a Mod, and as such can "deal with it" far more pro actively.

Third, I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of our complaints about White Dwarf. You seem to think that we've decided not to buy it, and are piling on complaints in an attempt to simply complain. In fact, I think if you ran a poll asking Dakkites if they would pay $10 an issue for a WD full of experimental army lists, apocalypse datasheets, campaign rules, scenarios, in depth fluff, army profiles, competitive battle reports, conversion masterclasses and increased specialist games content, I think most people would gladly pay it. Nobody here is afraid to spend money on GW product, we just expect to get our money's worth. Even without readding in chapter approved, there is so much WD could include that would entice people back it's sad. People genuinely want a flagship hobby magazine: we're far more disappointed in White Dwarf than we are angry.

Panic wrote:yeah,
How do you work that out?
I'm challenging peoples stupid crying about something they don't buy?
How does that compare to my lack of spelling/grammer skills?

Panic...

Edit:
Are you guys implying that only those with perfect spelling/grammer can throw insults? again don't be stupid.

When you challenge people's stupidity, rong speling an stuf makes you look stupid and weakens the intellectual force of your argument.

DakkaDakka has built-in spellchecking.

yeah
I don't work for WD. I wish I did.
I enjoy WD and I'll defend it, Sure it can be better, so It's a easy target for the haters.

I also feel sorry for those who use it for toilet paper... it's really rough and hard and not very absorbive... your poor bums...

And If you think I have a attitude because I tell people their stupid points of view are stupid... fair enought, so be it, ignore me, I don't care.

Panic...

So that'll be more hours standing in WH Smiths reading it at the stands. Though I bought the last one for the one off return of the Painting guy.

recession, new flat yet I'll still buy the models and play. However I would not pay more than £4 for it. There are other military model mags that cost more but have better content (although it's not warhammer, but the techniques still apl). I'll still get it as I don't pay at the moment anyway, but for the money what you get these days is pretty poor. They got rid of the citadel journal and said more would be added to WD, but instead of adding more hobby stuff they've taken what there was away. Like you've said it's all staff stuff now, I'm not staff, I'm a normal player. That's why I ended up on Dakka in the first place, becuase I no longer found the hobby stuff I wanted in WD so I looked elsewhere. As for price increases, well they should stop monopolising and look into allowing othre firms to advertise in their pages. Not competition as such, but look into other aspect of the hobby - wood supplies, foamboard, quality painting airsprays rather than they're 'toy' flamer, scenary options they don't produce themselves (which is getting harder these days). If they're that worried about a bit of competition then they're technically acknowledging that they have weaknesses and don't fully exploit their strengths. Model rail magazines (even those owed by hornby) advertise other firms and gadets etc. in their pages.

Panic wrote:yeah
I don't work for WD. I wish I did.
I enjoy WD and I'll defend it, Sure it can be better, so It's a easy target for the haters.

I also feel sorry for those who use it for toilet paper... it's really rough and hard and not very absorbive... your poor bums...

And If you think I have a attitude because I tell people their stupid points of view are stupid... fair enought, so be it, ignore me, I don't care.

Panic...

you are completely missing what there saying Panic... They have no real argument because they are in fact just crying because its not going there way like when they cry about everything els, They just use your spelling because they can't come up with a real argument.

Any one that thinks GW will is not being hit by the falling economy is a fool, if people don't have the money to spend any more there not going to go out and spend 100-200$ on new models, there going to save it, this is not the movies, and the only reason they still did well in the last depression is because people could trade iron pots and pans to get in to the movie.

As the economy falls, prices for materials gos up, and with that GW has to increase there prices to still make a profit, any one that thinks its just them "price gouging" needs to go back to school.

JokerGod wrote:

As the economy falls, prices for materials gos up, and with that GW has to increase there prices to still make a profit, any one that thinks its just them "price gouging" needs to go back to school.

Easy there killer, that straw man can't fight back, you know!

Look, you seem, from your posts, that you're just a loudmouth who delights in telling us all how stupid we are, but on the off chance that you're not a complete troll I should point this out.

1) nobody is calling it gouging, or at least not most of us. We simply are making an economic decision based on how valuable something is and how much it costs
2) I wouldn't be such a big man about claiming we don't have an argument. Spelling is important as a method of communication, but I've noticed that there is little response from you two to reasoned arguments either.
3) There's an argument to be made that GW is making a mistake in raising the price. If WD is an effective method of advertising for GW, then making it less likely to get in the hands of it's target audience reduces how much market penetration it has for it's new products. I don't have the figures, so I'm guessing they've kept that in mind, but WD makes a good "loss leader" to create more buzz.

Also, in a time of economic problems there is usually also a more general deflationary effect. If nothing else, labor costs can go down, while oil has plummetted from this summer's high. Prices go up when demand goes up, not up when demand lessens.

Alpharius: http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k222/mrscorrie/BATTLE20WAGON202.jpg

Polonius wrote:

JokerGod wrote:

As the economy falls, prices for materials gos up, and with that GW has to increase there prices to still make a profit, any one that thinks its just them "price gouging" needs to go back to school.

Easy there killer, that straw man can't fight back, you know!

Look, you seem, from your posts, that you're just a loudmouth who delights in telling us all how stupid we are, but on the off chance that you're not a complete troll I should point this out.

1) nobody is calling it gouging, or at least not most of us. We simply are making an economic decision based on how valuable something is and how much it costs
2) I wouldn't be such a big man about claiming we don't have an argument. Spelling is important as a method of communication, but I've noticed that there is little response from you two to reasoned arguments either.
3) There's an argument to be made that GW is making a mistake in raising the price. If WD is an effective method of advertising for GW, then making it less likely to get in the hands of it's target audience reduces how much market penetration it has for it's new products. I don't have the figures, so I'm guessing they've kept that in mind, but WD makes a good "loss leader" to create more buzz.

Also, in a time of economic problems there is usually also a more general deflationary effect. If nothing else, labor costs can go down, while oil has plummetted from this summer's high. Prices go up when demand goes up, not up when demand lessens.

1) Sevral people have claimed that GW is just raising prices because there greedy, if that's not you fine with me. My last post was directed at a hole group, not just one or two people.

2) Spelling is not everything, we don't have to be perfect for you to understand what we are saying, by bringing it up you are showing that you have no argument on the subject so instead your going to try to take a personal attack on someone to make them look like the lesser man. And I don't get involved with a lot of arguments period, and the ones I do are minor, and if there reasonable why would I try to argue it? Its the blatant spewing of junk that I dislike, if some one can come up with a good argument about why the price went up thats not just junk spewed from there arse then we can have a real conversation.

3) I'm not saying its a good idea, I am saying they have to increase there prices or they will take a loss in WD and wont have one at all. Clearly only one or two of you here even buy WD so they are not making as much money on it then the models, because of that you could argue that they had to cut back on content because they could not support the same amount of employees as before with the loss of money. Also, with rising prices for materials they must raise prices to keep the same profit they are making now.


As stated before, if you don't like the current WD make your own and distribute it, then you can see for your self how much time and money has to go in to it, then you might stop complaining about what GW has to do to keep it published.

JokerGod wrote:

1) Sevral people have claimed that GW is just raising prices because there greedy, if that's not you fine with me. My last post was directed at a hole group, not just one or two people.

Wait, I'm confused. You're last post was directed at a "whole" group, not one or two people, but only several people have made the claim to which you are responding. If you send a blanket response to the statements of a few, the rest are going to object.

2) Spelling is not everything, we don't have to be perfect for you to understand what we are saying, by bringing it up you are showing that you have no argument on the subject so instead your going to try to take a personal attack on someone to make them look like the lesser man. And I don't get involved with a lot of arguments period, and the ones I do are minor, and if there reasonable why would I try to argue it? Its the blatant spewing of junk that I dislike, if some one can come up with a good argument about why the price went up thats not just junk spewed from there arse then we can have a real conversation.

First off, critizing spelling isn't a personal attack. Saying, "Jokergod is clearly too stupid to possibly spell correctly" is a personal attack. Spelling isn't everything, but it's a show of respect to your fellow readers, and not taking simple steps to correct it is by definition disrespectful. Pointing out that somebody is not following the rules and is being disrespectful is not a sign that we have no argument, it's simply pointing out that you're breaking rules and being disrespectful on top of being, if not wrong, at least loudly and obnoxious incorrect.

I like that you point out that you couldn't argue with a reasonable point. It's oddly refreshing to hear that you simply like to argue, and that you like to argue minor points and ignore reasonable arguments. Oh, but if we agree, we can talk. How charming of you.

3) I'm not saying its a good idea, I am saying they have to increase there prices or they will take a loss in WD and wont have one at all. Clearly only one or two of you here even buy WD so they are not making as much money on it then the models, because of that you could argue that they had to cut back on content because they could not support the same amount of employees as before with the loss of money. Also, with rising prices for materials they must raise prices to keep the same profit they are making now.

So, you're saying that we shouldn't be at all upset that they've had to both cut staff and thus content, as well as raise prices? Your argument seems to boil down to "the price rise at WD is due to economic realities," which I think we'd all agree with. We're not saying there is no reason for a price increase. We're simply pointing out that raising the price of a product at what's often seen as the nadir of it's quality seems counterproductive. Why not use the next six months to roll out great content, and then raise the price when people are excited again?

As stated before, if you don't like the current WD make your own and distribute it, then you can see for your self how much time and money has to go in to it, then you might stop complaining about what GW has to do to keep it published.

Seriously, we need an "arguing on the internet" handbook for situations like this. Criticism is not founded on the principle of "I could do better," it's founded on the idea that we can judge the merits of an item based on it's value to us. Never mind that many fora are creating their own zines, and warhammer podcasts have exploded, while the article system here is gaining all kinds of ground, while WD has stopped accepting fan content and shut down black gobbo. I think the community is showing it can do a better job with some of these things, and with far less resources and arguably talent. Why is it so wrong to point out that GW could simply open up WD to army profile (which take almost no time), or competitive battle reports (which take only slightly more), etc, etc. To re-iterate a point of mine: we want a good WD! We are willing to pay for content! We want GW to make lots of money, and to make it off of us! Just give us what we want!

JokerGod wrote:3) I'm not saying its a good idea, I am saying they have to increase there prices or they will take a loss in WD and wont have one at all. Clearly only one or two of you here even buy WD so they are not making as much money on it then the models, because of that you could argue that they had to cut back on content because they could not support the same amount of employees as before with the loss of money. Also, with rising prices for materials they must raise prices to keep the same profit they are making now.

So you're saying you know why they are raising prices? Where are you getting your info?

As stated before, if you don't like the current WD make your own and distribute it, then you can see for your self how much time and money has to go in to it, then you might stop complaining about what GW has to do to keep it published.

There already is a fanzine, it's distributed on Warseer. I forget the name, but it's free and there's actually CONTENT. Why should I reinvent the wheel? I'll speak with my wallet...download and enjoy a freely distributed fanzine, or pay for WD? Take a guess at what I'm going to do.

GW really needs to embrace the digital age. "Living" codex's, an on-time updated Army Builder software, a email list to distribute FAQ's (or the ability to print them in-store)...lots of easy ways for them to promote and make their "hobby" better.

Lormax wrote:

JokerGod wrote:3) I'm not saying its a good idea, I am saying they have to increase there prices or they will take a loss in WD and wont have one at all. Clearly only one or two of you here even buy WD so they are not making as much money on it then the models, because of that you could argue that they had to cut back on content because they could not support the same amount of employees as before with the loss of money. Also, with rising prices for materials they must raise prices to keep the same profit they are making now.

So you're saying you know why they are raising prices? Where are you getting your info?

As stated before, if you don't like the current WD make your own and distribute it, then you can see for your self how much time and money has to go in to it, then you might stop complaining about what GW has to do to keep it published.

There already is a fanzine, it's distributed on Warseer. I forget the name, but it's free and there's actually CONTENT. Why should I reinvent the wheel? I'll speak with my wallet...download and enjoy a freely distributed fanzine, or pay for WD? Take a guess at what I'm going to do.

GW really needs to embrace the digital age. "Living" codex's, an on-time updated Army Builder software, a email list to distribute FAQ's (or the ability to print them in-store)...lots of easy ways for them to promote and make their "hobby" better.

I get my info from the global market traders (You know, stocks of company and price of materials. When you own your own company you look in to things like that)

If you don't like it, don't buy it, but don't come here and cry because you don't want it.

Polonius.
I stated I DO NOT like to get in involved with a lot of arguments, there counter productive and don't lead to anything. And some one having bad spelling is not braking the "rules" and its not disrespectful, its showing that they either A) Don't have English as a first language. or B) Had problems growing up and did not learn it all, such as moving around a lot when younger, not all schools keep the same schedules.

WD is a magazine based on a hobby, when that hobby losses sales they have to either raise prices to keep making profit or cut some things back. WD got smaller because they lost people to work on it, now the price is going up because it is costing them more to print it every month then it did before.

I am don arguing here, it is very clear your all to set in that GW is some big bad guy that hates all of you and only dos things to make them money and doesn't care about the customer. I guess its just unheard of that a relatively small company can being doing its best and still not be perfect and make all of you happy

If you don't like it, don't buy it, but don't come here and cry because you don't want it.

(Non-Mod mode fyi)

True that. We're offering ideas on what would get us to buy WD.
Besides its a free board, we can indeed come and "cry," just as you're free to disagree.

HisDivineShadow wrote:Seeing how little/none advertisements there are in WD from companies other then the people publishing it, I think WD is more of a company newsletter then a magazine.

You're close.
It's actually a catalog. Literally.
GW mails White Dwarf at the "catalog" shipping rate, instead of the "magazine' shipping rate, which is higher.

The benefit to them is that they get to keep even more of your dollar.
The benefit to us is... higher prices.

Hrmm... Why do I feel like I got screwed, but nobody bought me dinner first?

If your "magazine," for any reason, goes unclaimed by you it does NOT get returned to the publisher like a regular magazine does. It gets treated like a catalog (which it deserves) and is placed in the trash.

WD is overpriced at $6. There is little to no content of value to me at all, and it is CHOCK FULL of advertisements. At $8, it's no more than a punch line.

I know of no other magazine that is so expensive, and I can't think of any good reson why this one should be, either. No only that, it has the CRAPPIEST subscription rates out there. Most magazines have HUGE percentages off of the price when you subscribe. Not WD, though... Nope... It's like a "Buy 5, get one free" with them!

Eric

Wow. Just, wow.

Ok, there is no set rule on spelling, but there is a rule about being polite. Some spelling mistakes get through a spellchecker, while others would be easily caught. Not performing a simple task to clean up your posts is, at the very least, not as polite as you could be. Nobody is asking you to fix a fundamental flaw in yourself, they're asking you to use a freaking spell checker. You own a company, you have to know the importance of appearances and clear communication. Why are you faffing around on this? In an earlier post, you mentioned to somebody that "your hole post was gak," and it took three reads to notice that you meant "whole", as in entire, not "hole" as in a-hole. That dramatically changed the way I viewed that post, and you! Now, spellcheck wouldn't have caught that, but if you want your ideas listened to you have to understand that when people see you as a jerk, they listen less.

And again, put away the damn straw man! Nobody (or very few people) here is vilifying GW, we're merely pointing out low cost, low effort ways they could improve a product and thus sell more of it. I also reject the idea that a global company with hundreds of locations is a small company that needs our support. It's not a major evil corporation, but it's a serious business from which it's not entirely out of line to expect serious behavior.

I don't know what your problem is, nobody is calling for a boycott or asking others not to buy it, they're simply explaining why they aren't buying it. To be fair, they're explaining why it seems odd TO THEM that GW is raising prices at this juncture in WD's quality curve, but I think people understand why the price is going up. You seem to want to be angry with us, when we've done nothing wrong or upsetting.

At 7 euro I could buy my lunch. I think I'd rather spend it on a burrito than WD. I bought the space marine issue there a while ago, and I was very disappointed. The content is very weak. For me, the best of it is LOTR articles, then Fantasy and lastly 40K. The new format for battlereports is mindboggling. Where's the map? Why is everything split up into sections? Why isn't it turn by turn? It's very hard to get a sense of what is going on, the way they are written.

WD got smaller because they lost people to work on it, now the price is going up because it is costing them more to print it every month then it did before.

Wrong. The UK in 2005 changed procedures on how and what WD covers, went to a more universal worldwide cut and paste format, and then started cutting staff to work on it. Compare any 2005 WD to most 2006 WD, you'll see. When the changes were made, staff were made redundant, and they started letting people go as they had no reason to justify the expenses of keeping the employees around. And they let go some really fine hard working people whom I've had the pleasure to work with.

Yes, I think we can all agree that cost of printing has certainly gone up as have everything else. But that's not our argument, its value for the price we pay....which right now is lacking.

I am don arguing here, it is very clear your all to set in that GW is some big bad guy that hates all of you and only dos things to make them money and doesn't care about the customer. I guess its just unheard of that a relatively small company can being doing its best and still not be perfect and make all of you happy

No, we just want GW to make sensible business decisions. We want GW to make a profit so they can keep making great models. I want GW to make a profit to keep my portfolio happy.

GW mails White Dwarf at the "catalog" shipping rate, instead of the "magazine' shipping rate, which is higher.

Quoted for Truth. By USPS definitions, a catalog contains/advertises only ONE company's products, while a magazine contains/advertises multiple companies' products. And USPS doesn't place priority on ensuring timely deliveries of catalogs as they do with magazines.

EDIT: re-opening at request. Lets keep it polite people or I shall close this thread with the swiftness of a Texan running for a plate of fajitas.

yeah,
Thanx for reopening...

Lormax wrote: GW really needs to embrace the digital age. "Living" codex's, an on-time updated Army Builder software, a email list to distribute FAQ's (or the ability to print them in-store)...lots of easy ways for them to promote and make their "hobby" better.

GW really needs to embrace the digital age. Aint that the truth! but that's got nothing to do with the price or quality of WD!?... offline?

Also the fanzine you mention is obviously amazing... being you can't remember it's name!
But I agree Army profiles, waky rules are something for fans to make and distribute them selfs. I'm not that interested in wakky rules but I do like clicking around the net looking at Army Profiles...

WD is about showing the game from the Company/Studio side of things. It's the clean un-adulterated version of the hobby.
Look we have a new battle wagon check out it's stats and rules... this is how we painted it... look at how the battle wagon performed in a batrep.

Ok lets look at a break down of the last issue?
121 pages:
2 pages for editorial and contents
13 pages that have pictures of products and Prices....
4 pages Adverts for : LOTR tourny, forge world, BL mechanium book
6pages for raids in warhammer FB
9pages for tale of four gamers 40k
6pages tactics for magic in LOTR
21 Pages about the SM codex
26 pages for 3 SM BatReps
3 Pages for Standard bearer by John Blanch
1 page how to use transfers
6 Pages how to paint LOTR Characters
6 Pages how to drybrush over brush
14 pages of FrontLine: open day pictures & details, Event calendar/news, how to find stores and hobby clubs
1 page next month..

There was alot about the Space marines being that they were this months release.
I really enjoyed the three SM batreps from the last issue... being that they didn't win all three!

It's a Magazine to keep you upto date with your hobby... reading the above is it succeeding in this or failing?
It's giving you the news, throws out a few ideas, Show you how they make/paint the studio armys and tables etc...
Some tactics, Whats happening in tourny/events land, new stores, new clubs.

Whats missing that's stopping you from buying WD? If they added it in would you buy?
What was in this months you think should be taken out? Why?

Bearing in mind that what you want dropped is what another person is interested in?

Panic...

Panic what is that Avatar? Its kewlll...

yeah,
It's the 40k plastic objective counter. I took a picture of it in a dark corner with a lamp on it.
Seemed important since in the grim darkness of the far future a thousand souls die every day fighting over shiny green flags.

Panic...

Panic wrote:Whats missing that's stopping you from buying WD?...

For the current price tag a terminator and a ork.

Polonius wrote:If nothing else, labor costs can go down, while oil has plummetted from this summer's high. Prices go up when demand goes up, not up when demand lessens.

If you look at oil pricing (DoE data) since gas started the increase in Jan 2002, this summer was an aberration, but we're still above where we should be from a pure numbers / trendline standpoint.

The difference is that this summer, the spike was quite a bit higher and prolonged than last year, or even the year before that. Plus we didn't ease nearly as much during the previous winter.

We might get from $3.50/gal down to $3.00/gal, but I wouldn't expect $1 or $2 gas anytime soon...

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Polonius wrote:If nothing else, labor costs can go down, while oil has plummetted from this summer's high. Prices go up when demand goes up, not up when demand lessens.

If you look at oil pricing (DoE data) since gas started the increase in Jan 2002, this summer was an aberration, but we're still above where we should be from a pure numbers / trendline standpoint.

The difference is that this summer, the spike was quite a bit higher and prolonged than last year, or even the year before that. Plus we didn't ease nearly as much during the previous winter.

We might get from $3.50/gal down to $3.00/gal, but I wouldn't expect $1 or $2 gas anytime soon...

Oh no, I'm pretty sure the days of cheap oil are behind us. Global demand is only going to rise over the long term. I was merely pointing out that when the economy slows down, people and businesses buy less, demand lessens, and prices go down. The current crisis has thus far slowed the economy, but it's still not a technical recession (although we're getting close and may have been). The drop in oil prices has actually had an impact on some wells that started production again, only to end up losing money as they can't sell for enough to justify production.

WD has been $6 for a while now, and it's not our line for the price to go up, I just think this is the wrong time for greater disincentives to buying the thing. As Da Boss said, If I get more enjoyment out of my Burrito than out of WD, dollar for dollar, it's time to put the money elsewhere.

Polonius wrote:
WD has been $6 for a while now, and it's not our line for the price to go up, I just think this is the wrong time for greater disincentives to buying the thing. As Da Boss said, If I get more enjoyment out of my Burrito than out of WD, dollar for dollar, it's time to put the money elsewhere.

Here its 8 euros so consider yourself lucky
Seriously, 8 euros buys you a nice individual metal miniature in most places.

$6? That's about £2.80 (ish). Here in the UK we pay £4. So with my poor exchange calculations that's about $9. Would you pay $10 for a WD? The new price rises will make that a reality for people in the UK.

I've probably cocked that up, but the point is it's still much more expensive here.

Polonius wrote:

JokerGod wrote:

As the economy falls, prices for materials gos up, and with that GW has to increase there prices to still make a profit, any one that thinks its just them "price gouging" needs to go back to school.

Easy there killer, that straw man can't fight back, you know!

Look, you seem, from your posts, that you're just a loudmouth who delights in telling us all how stupid we are, but on the off chance that you're not a complete troll I should point this out.

1) nobody is calling it gouging, or at least not most of us. We simply are making an economic decision based on how valuable something is and how much it costs
2) I wouldn't be such a big man about claiming we don't have an argument. Spelling is important as a method of communication, but I've noticed that there is little response from you two to reasoned arguments either.
3) There's an argument to be made that GW is making a mistake in raising the price. If WD is an effective method of advertising for GW, then making it less likely to get in the hands of it's target audience reduces how much market penetration it has for it's new products. I don't have the figures, so I'm guessing they've kept that in mind, but WD makes a good "loss leader" to create more buzz.

Also, in a time of economic problems there is usually also a more general deflationary effect. If nothing else, labor costs can go down, while oil has plummetted from this summer's high. Prices go up when demand goes up, not up when demand lessens.

QFT.. quit beating up on the strawmen, they didn't do anything to you..

Panic wrote:yeah,
It's the 40k plastic objective counter. I took a picture of it in a dark corner with a lamp on it.
Seemed important since in the grim darkness of the far future a thousand souls die every day fighting over shiny green flags.

Panic...

I also stopped subscribing a few years back. I pick up maybe two issues a year now. The content just got too superficial and broad. I miss the days of the detailed battle reports, new rules (even optional ones), and Specialist Games coverage.

Also, as with many magazines, the content is too diverse. If you do not play more than one game you are not getting a lot of relevant content for your money even though they have increased the overall page count of the magazine. In my case I only play 40K (and BFG) so each issue is a bit light for me. Combine this with army preferences and things get even lighter. Obviously those who play more than one of the main games and lots of armies get a lot more value for their dollar.

I do not believe the magazine is priced out of line for its physical qualities and lack of paid advertisements. But once you get above the 'average' magazine rate of $30-$50 a year I think most consumers start getting a lot more critical about value. I have no idea what the print run is of WD but I suspect it is still high enough to be making money (or breaking even) and satisfying the need for a house organ. It certainly is a good magazine for someone in their first year or so of the hobby to get exposure to the world of GW and tabletop gaming -- I think that has become its main purpose now and not to provide veteran support. Looking at WD in that light it is a pretty good publication (but could be improved) but it simply is not suited to the majority of people on Dakka.

It is disappointing that GW has not found a way to support the veteran gamer in a consistent manner. Something like 'Firebase' would be a great idea for 40K fans and GW could add news, new release info, and 'Eavy Metal stuff. For awhile Black Gobbo was a nice 40K mini-pub but that went downhill after awhile as well.

The problem of course, as anyone who has tried to do any sort of publication knows, is that producing a quality, content-ripe publication is a lot of work. Combine that with high physical qualities and you have even more work in art and design. I suspect GW has 'lightened' the content in many ways to make it a bit easier, and cheaper, to produce. But generally I think they simply changed the goals of the magazine and probably figure the various fan supplied sites will satisfy the veterans.

I've read through an old WD (UK 246) and even though it is severely dated it is still a blast to read. They got several army showcases, a presentation of the Craftworld Eldar codex plus a Eldar history class by Gav Thorpe, a much missed series of fantasy articles penned by Mike Walker with actually funny footnotes and editors comments, a workshop on how to create orky fortresses and sixteen (16!) pages dedicated to the background of the Space Wolves including a glossary and iconography. There are 18 pages of ads and plugs promoting their recent releases and whatnots. Though these are hardly noticed due to the great content it has all round.

In comparison the new ones feel like the same old same old again. I especially feel that they are running out of stuff to write for their oft-skipped Lord of the Rings section.

Does anyone remember the "Lion and the Wolf" story that was in it about the origins between the rivalry between the Dark Angels and Space Wolves? That was savage. As was the seige of the imperial palace piece. They stopped doing bits like that and it's a real shame, they're inspirational.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Polonius wrote:If nothing else, labor costs can go down, while oil has plummetted from this summer's high. Prices go up when demand goes up, not up when demand lessens.

If you look at oil pricing (DoE data) since gas started the increase in Jan 2002, this summer was an aberration, but we're still above where we should be from a pure numbers / trendline standpoint.

The difference is that this summer, the spike was quite a bit higher and prolonged than last year, or even the year before that. Plus we didn't ease nearly as much during the previous winter.

We might get from $3.50/gal down to $3.00/gal, but I wouldn't expect $1 or $2 gas anytime soon...

It's getting closer here (Kansas City, MO area), I think we're down to $2.42 as of last night.

I saw $2.49 this morning in Iowa.

What?

JohnHwangDD, wrong again?

No!

@Alpharius: Are you aware of the DOE methodology?
They calculate an *average* price across the *entire* US.

Not just the flyover states.

That is why, here in California, we're still $3.50+...

I forgot you live in SoCal!

I lived there for 6 years myself, and the Sunshine Tax (and the population density!) finally got to me.

It is going to sound crazy, I know, but I really got sick of the weather too!

So, I eventually made it back home, with a 3 year stop over in South Carolina...

SO yeah, California gas prices are painful, aren't they?

Lucky you!

I've been here for 5 or 6 years now, and managed to land a place where my commutes are reasonable.

I still miss having actual seasons - there's something nice about seeing the ebb and flow of time in the seasons.

But the gasoline pricing is bad stuff - junk science "oxygenated" and so on.

WD has been sapped of any true "hobby" articles; its a catalog and a poor one at that. The things the average reader wants are simple but GW doesn't want to provide them. I hope the few who are reading it shouldn't put up with this and GW realize they can't afford to give us this dribble.

Has GW lost their minds?

$8 gets almost 3 pots of paints, 1/3 of a assault squad, etc.

I was a marginal buyer of WD. I'm done. I will stare at store copy and call it good. I would be hard pressed to spent $8 on a WD in glory days of Andy Chambers Chapter Approved articles.

First the modular table, now WD.

JohnHwangDD wrote:@Alpharius: Are you aware of the DOE methodology?
They calculate an *average* price across the *entire* US.

Not just the flyover states.

That is why, here in California, we're still $3.50+...

Lol, down to $2.37 in some parts of town now.

And just to not completely threadjack: In the past two years I've purchased ONE issue of White Dwarf, the Dark Elf one, and that was only to have something to read on a train. At $8.00 and issue, I'd rather buy a couple comics.

Anti-Mag wrote:$6? That's about £2.80 (ish). Here in the UK we pay £4. So with my poor exchange calculations that's about $9. Would you pay $10 for a WD? The new price rises will make that a reality for people in the UK.

Nope. £4 is about $6.91, according to www.xe.com. Not quite as big a difference as you paint it to be.
Granted, still higher.
I wouldn't pay $10 for WD... or $8... or $6. It's just not worth it anymore.
Most companies give their catalogs away for free.


Eric

yeah,
Its pretty much what i thought, Just a bunch of nay-sayers..

I think most of you have stopped buying WD and now your trying to convince yourselfs you did the right thing...

As far as i Can see No ones pointed out what was in the last issue they take offence with, and spoken up for what they believe is missing from WD???

Panic...

Panic wrote:yeah,
Its pretty much what i thought, Just a bunch of nay-sayers..

I think most of you have stopped buying WD and now your trying to convince yourselfs you did the right thing...

As far as i Can see No ones pointed out what was in the last issue they take offence with, and spoken up for what they believe is missing from WD???

Panic...

I think several people pointed out what they didn't like. I don't play Fantasy, or LoTR, so it's already hard to justify it for the table scraps 40k gets, and I'm not a fan of their batreps. I was however a fan of Chapter Approved, and Index Astartes. White Dwarf used to be worth the money, when it was more than an advertisement. I don't need to convince myself not buying it was the right thing, I know it was. I can get more/better modeling/painting advice in 5 minutes of browsing forums, and I don't pay for it.

Panic wrote:yeah,
Its pretty much what i thought, Just a bunch of nay-sayers..

I think most of you have stopped buying WD and now your trying to convince yourselfs you did the right thing...

As far as i Can see No ones pointed out what was in the last issue they take offence with, and spoken up for what they believe is missing from WD???

Panic...

First I dont need to convince myself of anything I decide to do in my life... its called being a adult... you decide something and then live with it!
Second I'm not a naysayer, last WD I got was the 345 and content wise there was some ups and downs but none of those justify the 8 euros/ 10 dollas price tag.
ALthough I do casually get some WD just to check the pretty pictures in places I dont have internet ( like one wd per year).

ALthough I splashed money on the deceased and much more expensive rackham cry havoc mag since it was artbook quality and contents like tutorials were aimed for very very experienced painters! Dont see this hapening in my lifetime on WD

My flag sells old wd for 1euro... i bought an entire stack of old dusty really old wd but couldnt even make my self pay 1 euro for this years issues because they sucked so much!

White Dwarf.

A Magazine aimed at relatively new Gamers, to help teach them tecniques and promot to them the idea of the game as a Hobby.

And Veterans are buying this because? There is precious little in there of genuine value to me (gaming 18 years). Any articles on there tend to have online equivalents, either official GW ones or fansite based. As a result, I do not buy White Dwarf, I do not complain about White Dwarf, and I can't say I'm all that bothered by the price of something I have no wish to buy.

ZamboniKnight wrote:The first White Dwarf that really made an impression on me was because of it's 40k battle report. It was in the 150's and feature Ragnar Blackman, Ulrik the Slayer, and Njal Stormcaller leading their Space Wolves against Ghazkhull Thraka. The BatRep was written as if it was a novel though. No mention was made of dice rolls or specific measurements. It was FANTASTIC! Then I think it was issue 170 which featured an amazing Dark Angels army. The army was small but featured the Dark Green clad Marines in a uniform that was set off by it's blazing yellow/orange/red trim. As it's centerpiece, stood a dreadnaught with a hand painted angel on it's armor that was repeated upon it's banner. Where these features are now, I don't know. I mostly pick up White Dwarf now on an infrequent basis and only to see what's going on in the realm of GW.

Yes they were both good issues. The DA one had a Man o' War cover iirc. Can't remember the SW cover but it was still a good magazine.

Panic wrote:yeah,
Its pretty much what i thought, Just a bunch of nay-sayers..

I think most of you have stopped buying WD and now your trying to convince yourselfs you did the right thing...

As far as i Can see No ones pointed out what was in the last issue they take offence with, and spoken up for what they believe is missing from WD???

Panic...

If WD were less of a monthly catalog, and more of an ongoing Apocalypse support press organ, I might be more interested.

But really, I'm pretty much at a point where GW won't bring me back in regardless of what they print.

Railguns wrote:Haven't bought one in 4 years now, not going to start.

yea thats exactly my mentality. seriously WD isnt so awesome i just had to get a subscription. if I see one that is just packed with useful things then i might buy one. but like he stated, i havnt bought one in years

White Dwarf gets price increase because they're giving it Rending.

Seriously now, under the GW/Studio policy, it was the Game designers' decision to tone it down and increase the price, in a classic move that's served them well in Warhammer 40k.

(More likely this was the Board's decision, because they lost a lot of money on the free Nob & Termie, so they want less people to buy the magazine to prevent more losses.)

Since WD is the only thing I really continue to buy regularly for 40K since my playing days are long gone I really debated on whether I was going to re subscribe or not.

But in the end I decided to add another 2 years while it was still not to bad and the bonus of 6 extra issues helped a little so add those to what is remaining on my current sub I should be good until 2012.

I will admit as a loyal reader since the early days when they covered other company’s games WD is not what is used to be and I think that I could be as good if not better if they put a little more into. Just take a look at No Quarter for Privateer press it is basically one Giant add for there stuff but it is done so much better I just wish they had a subscription service.

One thing I did do and I suggest anyone who is going to re subscribe let them know how you feel about WD and the direction it is going. I made sure to point that out to the sales guy on the phone when I called he actually sounded like he has been hearing it a lot. Who know it might do a little good.

Well enough rambling form this old fart I am off to bed

lol love this thread. Looked at a copy in a shop recently. Didnt know whether to laugh or cry. Then went home and looked at WD 150:
battle report, roleplay content, space hulk, converted and scratch built minis, 1 page of mailorder and..... an advert for Waddingtons family games??

Jazz is for Losers wrote:

ZamboniKnight wrote:The first White Dwarf that really made an impression on me was because of it's 40k battle report. It was in the 150's and feature Ragnar Blackman, Ulrik the Slayer, and Njal Stormcaller leading their Space Wolves against Ghazkhull Thraka. The BatRep was written as if it was a novel though. No mention was made of dice rolls or specific measurements. It was FANTASTIC! Then I think it was issue 170 which featured an amazing Dark Angels army. The army was small but featured the Dark Green clad Marines in a uniform that was set off by it's blazing yellow/orange/red trim. As it's centerpiece, stood a dreadnaught with a hand painted angel on it's armor that was repeated upon it's banner. Where these features are now, I don't know. I mostly pick up White Dwarf now on an infrequent basis and only to see what's going on in the realm of GW.

Yes they were both good issues. The DA one had a Man o' War cover iirc. Can't remember the SW cover but it was still a good magazine.

Man that was a good one....*tear.

That dark angels army was fantastic, and had zero robes! That gentleman really made Dark Angels look cool.

JMO but WD does have more color pages than any other magazine and usually more content. Once you figure on the limited content and no outside advertising you may start to understand the price. I recently purchased a car magazine and it was 7$ and I have seen other magazines as much as $12 a pop with less content. Admittedly some months are better than others and I miss some of the older formats like Dirty Steve and letters from players as well as funny stuff. The hobby content is actually pretty good and I love looking at all the pretty color models for ideas.

Ugh, I hated that Dark Angels army. It was back in the "red days" where all the armies were really bright. Good painter, just not my cup of tea.

I subscribe to White Dwarf. I usually wait to subscribe till I get something cool for free (not a stupid Grombrindal mini). I dunno, I enjoy reading it, the painting articles have improved lately, and whatever, I'm a collector and I like having it on my shelf.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

This issue had '$8 MSRP' on the cover. It is also sealed in a plastic sleeve, fo no very good reason. (Enclosed is a little mini-catalog featuring new stuff & special army deals- like I said, no very good reason.)

I asked my FLGS owner if he was selling it for the MSRP, and he was taken by surprise. GW charged him the old price. He called his GW rep to check on the pricing, and told them that they needed to reduce the number of WD's they sent him if the price was going up that high.

He then sold it to me for the old price, and I went home to enjoy the last WD I will ever buy. Pity it had so little worthwhile content.

I forgot to post the most ironic part of all this. Most of the stores I go to are having real issues getting the most recent white dwarfs in a timely manner. The GW store has them in plenty of time but the LGS cant get it until 2 weeks later at best. Then they get stuck with them as everyone who wanted one ended up having to go to the GW store....Hmmmmmmm

It was barely worthwhile at $6, and it's a pile of crap for $8. Unless and until they publish new rules, new army lists/codexes, or USEFUL hobby guides, I ain't buying another damned issue.

Period.

Railguns wrote:Haven't bought one in 4 years now, not going to start.

LoL, I just checked. The last issue I bought was July 2004 #294. Yeah, I have no reason to pick up this publication. It stopped being relevant back in 2k4 and is likely more so now. I suppose GW's new business model is to just 'jack' the prices up on everything and hope they see black sometime soon. With the world economy tanking as a whole it really won't matter what they do. When it comes to needs and wants GW products are only wants. I'll save my money for necessities personally. I'm just glad I've got an entire Witch Hunters army to paint and mod so there are really no purchases I need atm.

BrookM wrote:Isn't this one of those "oops, I shot myself in the leg" moments?

It's either raise the price, thin the number of pages, or drop the mag.

I bet they did their research before they made the decision.

I actually bought a WD 3 or 4 months back(Im ashamed to admitt it even), but ohh how I regretted it at 6$. More then 1/3 was self adverticement and the few pages remaining split evenly on the 3 games it didnt leave much.. Think there was actually one half useful article.. At 8$ anyone seeing me pick it up gets a free punch.

Also, I tought with new management they kinda "promised" to bring it back to what it had used to be. But I guess that promise was worth as much as the GW stock these days.

Picked up a subscription about 3 months ago, no intention of renewing or picking up single issues the direction the magazine is going. I liked WD when they published articles like chapter approved, with in-depth fluff and variant rules for units. The only gaming magazine I'm currently interested in buying is No Quarter - new models get articles with fluff and full rules text so they can be played immediately!

I'm putting all my 40K purchases on hold anyway until I see what's coming with next year's Necron codex. Maybe WD will get interesting again by then...

Maybe GW overheard my nagging and complaining as I still haven't gotten my November issue. Isn't that supposed to be one of the perks of having a subscription: Getting the mag a week or two before everybody else?

£4.50???? What a joke.

yeah,
what were they thinking? just 50p more? they should have raised the price to at least £5, so you could have a proper moan about it...
.
.
.
boring...

Panic...

Good job i took out a subscription at games day then innit Got the old price deal.

I wouldnt mind it if they did some rules previews for new armies, or more fluff articles or even what they did a few WD back by making your own Eye of Terror campaign. I loved chapter approved and index astares.

One thing I would love see but know for sure would mean alot of mags would be to publish every quarter general FaQs based off of one game system such as 40k, fantasy, Lord of the Rings.

Fishboy wrote: Admittedly some months are better than others and I miss some of the older formats like Dirty Steve and letters from players as well as funny stuff.

Wait... what? You miss the Dirty Steve letters page?

ZOMG SPACE SKAVENZEZ IS FAIL!!!!!!1!!!1!!11!!shift+one

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

BRAIIINS.......

The Best 3 consistent white dwarfs were the release of the Imperial Assassins for 2nd edition. Now that was a magazine to wait on.

Boy, y'all are going to go off the deep end when you see Issue #350 is $9.00 American!
14th Cadian

The 'Stompa' UK issue was in my LGS today, that was £4.50. I may pick up the Imperial Guard release issue in May. It will be my first White Dwarf purchace since WD#303.

yeah,
Issue 351 is amazing for 40k fans...
biggest ever battle report with Four battlefields.. featuring 13 different stompas!

Panic...

NO WAY

Anything there for those 40K fans that don't particularly care for Apocalypse?

Bite your tongue!

How can anybody *not* appreciate the Orks getting a Titan or more Superheavy tanks for the Guard?

I bought #347 -#350 and just today got around to reading them.

Epic Fail.

Besides Stompa Battle Report and one tutorial on how to paint heads. Complete waste.

I will put my money towards figures.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Bite your tongue!

How can anybody *not* appreciate the Orks getting a Titan or more Superheavy tanks for the Guard?

Don't get me wrong, Superheavies are cool and everything, I just prefer regular 40K to it's Apocalyptic Brethren. If I want Titans & Baneblades, I'd rather dig out Epic.

Yeah, but Epic doesn't cover a board as viscerally as 40k.

Perhaps, but the scale makes (very slightly) more sense.

Oh, unquestionably so!

I like how Flames splits the difference at 15mm.

If I knew any local FoW players, I'd have an airlanding company all ready and waiting. Instead, I just finally ordered AoBR from the WarStore and am going all the way back to full 40Ker

I have collected every issue since #200, even buying duplicates of some.

Not wanting to break a 12-year run of continuity kept me buying the rag.

I gave up on it with the rediculous price increase ...

Now my blood pressure doesn't spike every month when it arrives and I wonder why I keep throwing good money away !!

So, to recap, "DON'T DO DWARF" ... avoiding it saves you money and is good for your health

$9.00 is far too much to spend on what has become more or less light bathroom reading. Sorry for the mental image but thats really all its good for.

Just think of all the other things you could purchase with that money.

Yeah, for 3 WDs, I can get me a Fire Warrior box or similar from an on-line retailer.

I was thinking more along the lines of a nice beer and a cheeseburger, but yeah, minis are good too .

So, lemme get this straight. It was $5 USD back in the early 2000's, then went to $6 USD by 2005(?). Now it jumped to $8 USD a year or so ago, then to $9 USD because of a poster in an issue or two ago and now a regular issue is stuck at $9 USD now? Nice stealth increase. Par for the course, again.

Sounds about right. Every time GW raises the price, fewer people buy. So to cover the fixed printing cost, GW needs to raise the price...

When i started buying white dwarf, a subscription (12 issues) was $50 and then $60 US dollars, and it came with a free box set up to $30 value. And the magazine was actually something worth owning/reading back then too!

Goon3423 wrote:$9.00 is far too much to spend on what has become more or less light bathroom reading. Sorry for the mental image but thats really all its good for.

Lol, there's a stack of WDs in my bathroom.

I haven't bought any new issues in awhile and have no plans too. There's just not enough good info in it. I also don't like the over enthusiastic cheerleading that goes on in the bat reps for whatever is new that month. It makes me feel like they are condescending me. In a hobby like this all they need to do is put some pretty pictures of finished models in there and I'm chomping at the bit to buy them anyway. When they have to tell me ad nausium how great everything is it kind of turns me off.

augustus5 wrote:

Goon3423 wrote:$9.00 is far too much to spend on what has become more or less light bathroom reading. Sorry for the mental image but thats really all its good for.

Lol, there's a stack of WDs in my bathroom.

I haven't bought any new issues in awhile and have no plans too. There's just not enough good info in it. I also don't like the over enthusiastic cheerleading that goes on in the bat reps for whatever is new that month. It makes me feel like they are condescending me. In a hobby like this all they need to do is put some pretty pictures of finished models in there and I'm chomping at the bit to buy them anyway. When they have to tell me ad nausium how great everything is it kind of turns me off.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

White Dwarf really isn't for people like us anymore- GW expects us to get our fix of hobby related reading and pretty pictures from websites like this, or their own one.

imho, the last 3 months have been a significant improvement on the last few years. They are still not as good as when I was young and everything was new and exciting, but there have been some good things recently and things like the stompa battle report, very in depth eavy metal stuff and slightly improved format have gone a long way towards helping me enjoy WD again.

That seems to happen a lot though. The issues start to get better for a few months then tank again. Then get better for a few months and...

I'd really like to see more hobby and painting content. I like the Masterclasses and I'd like to see some real battle reports with non-studio armies or cool campaigns.

When I can get through the magazine over my lunch break on the day that I get it, something is wrong.

There are people who actually buy WD?

I would make a joke that it sells faster than Sonic at my flgs, but unfortunately it doesn't sell at all. Surprised the guy running the store doesn't just stop trying to sell it.

It's not easy to generate a lot of good content for a magazine of WD's size unless you devote the proper amount of staff to it. So I'm not going to throw the editorial staff under the bus. They almost certainly have constraints they're dealing with. Given the size of the development team these days, I have to think the amount of time they have to contribute cool stuff for WD is much more limited than in years past.

On the price/strategy front, I think even GW has to know that something's broken with WD if it costs $9. I wonder what the strategy even is? I know they're targeting more of a beginner audience with it, but I'm not sure they'll get many subs from newbies at that price level.

Maybe they consider the mag as sort of an advertising buy at the newsstands, because otherwise they'd almost certainly kill the printed mag and take the thing online. Still, it's not like everyone is going to pick it up even if they see it on the rack. I'd guess that if you consider it advertising, it doesn't do terribly favorable CPM numbers compared to other forms.

Or maybe I'm wrong, I dunno. Or maybe WD doesn't make any financial or strategic sense but the mag sticks around due to nostalgia among the higher-ups. *shrug*

Ive been reading it for many many many years, ive always enjoyed it and still do. There is always something interesting to read and some great pics to drool over.

Yes its a GW advert but it is made by GW for the promotion of GW so its to be expected.

Its £4.50 which if you look at the cost of games mags etc is about the same.

I know im paddling against the tide but i just wanted to voice a positive view from a person who still gets excited when it arrives.

Da Boss wrote:White Dwarf really isn't for people like us anymore- GW expects us to get our fix of hobby related reading and pretty pictures from websites like this, or their own one.

Well, I'll throw this out. There are a lot of Indy GT's out there, aren't there some Indy Online Mags out there on this Interweb thing? There's blogs galore from former GW staffers that got their walking papers as well as ardent hobbyists. Pity we can't pool them all together and come up with an Indy Mag. Pretty sure it would get shut down by the suits at GW Legal, but it's kinda nice to think of what could be.

Grandmaster wrote:Ive been reading it for many many many years, ive always enjoyed it and still do. There is always something interesting to read and some great pics to drool over.

Yes its a GW advert but it is made by GW for the promotion of GW so its to be expected.

Its £4.50 which if you look at the cost of games mags etc is about the same.

I know im paddling against the tide but i just wanted to voice a positive view from a person who still gets excited when it arrives.

The pictures tickles my hormones !

I'd rather buy much more visually interesting magazines than shelve 9$ quid though for.. pictures off stuff that you can either see by going to a store... buy your own models.. or look on pictures online.


thats my take. Game mags still, to me, have more interesting content than GW mags. Thats me though.

It would make more sense for GW to move to a bi-monthly release schedule and have better content for 9$, than to have a terrible magazine that consistently sells poorly.

They could put better previews in there and more optional rules for homebrew games, datasheets, more story themed articles , etc. there's a legion of stuff they could do to simply make the magazine worth reading.

But no, they simply want to put out as high quality of product for the least amount of investment humanly possible. No wonder GW is tanking.

strange_eric wrote:But no, they simply want to put out as high quality of product for the least amount of investment humanly possible.

I believe that they call this approach "Capitalism."

$9 is way too much for what I get out of it.

Not buying 2 issues means I can buy another Grey Knight Terminator with psycannon instead!

Soon they'll ask admission money for their shops, lousy gw bastards!