hey, being in England i have to wait another few days for Fallout 3 to come out, i was just wondering for you guys that already have it what is your opinions of the game?

I don't own it personally, but my friend picked it up and he loves it. Loved it so much he stayed up till 4 playing it last night then skipped out on work today. Very open ended/sandbox type of play and somewhat similar to oblivion, but with guns.

So far I love it. I was a massive nut for the original Fallout.

So far I really like Fallout 3. The auto detect put my computer at "medium" settings and the game still looks amazing. So far I've only got quibbles with the game not any real problems. There are some issues with monsters that are long (like giant bugs) not looking very good when they move over uneven terrain (which the game has in spades). The VATS system turned out better than I expected. With a really good gun skill your character can shoot well and pretty damn accurate. VATS target numbers break down at very long range. IE your almost always gonna be better aiming for yourself. I've already seen at least 3 or 4 places where I could have taken other "paths" when it comes to the story line. Two of them could lead to major game changes for replay. The game really captures the Fallout atmosphere of scrounging for every last bullet. Ammo so far has not been super plentiful. There are some very occasional slowdown issues on my PC but they aren't major and I haven't attempted any performance adjustments.

I'm pretty sure the game so far deserves at least a score in the low 90's out of 100. If I had a slightly faster computer the game would be perfect.

thanks Dr Phibes the kind of feedback i was looking for, i am a massive fallout nut too and have been following the development of this game pretty closely since it was announced back in what 2004? something like that,

Vats was something i was concerned about but the reviews ive read state it as no problem which sounds awesome as it looks like a pretty fun gameplay mechanic, i feel for you with your PC concerns, luckily i will be getting on the xbox so hopefully i wont have such issues from what ive also heard those PS3 owners have got the short end of the stick this time as far as how the game runs is concerned nice to hear your pc isnt having too much of a problem what spec you running?

thanks for your informed reply

VATS is amazingly fun.

Take one minigun
Take one super mutant
Insert VATS faceshots
=
PROFIT???

But seriously.
The game is amazingly fun, and I spent all night last night playing around on it.

I played the original 1 and 2 tactics hell i even bought the lame post bankruptcy on for xbox that came out a few years back

fallout 3 is in the original vein of the first two and i have genuinely enjoyed the 10+ hours i have spent playing it even though i have only covered about 5% of the game world itself..

Simply stated. The money i spent on it will be bringing me enjoyment for many many weeks to come.

5 out of 5 whatevers

I got the game and I have to say I'm a little frustrated with how poorly they've constructed the beginning of the game to help you figure out exactly how the game functions.

The 'intro' bit in the vault is all well and good, but once I escaped the vault all I had in my possession is a pistol with roughly 24 shots, a BB gun (and ammo), Baseball bat, Baseball, Baseball glove, some armor (and helmet) and a couple of vault jumpsuits. I've got no money (which fits the story) and I have no idea how to make money.

By this time in the game I've decided I'm going to play a 'good guy' type of character. I'm not going to steal or lie and I'm always going to try to help people out. . .for compensation, of course, a man's gotta survive.

Following that archetype when the crap went down in the vault I decided I wasn't going to try to kill the vault security guys who were chasing me, I just ran from them instead. I have no idea if I missed out on a bunch of great weapons/gear etc. by fleeing straight for the exit, but that felt like the 'right' thing for my particular character to do.

So when I get to Megaton, I'm looking for guidance on how exactly I survive in this game world and I don't get any of that. The town sheriff asks me if I can disarm their bomb. Well, I'm looking to help and I picked a bunch of technical skills when I was developing the character so I say 'sure', I'll try to disarm it to get some cash.

But of course when I get to the bomb, I don't have the sufficient ability to do so. Crap. Still no money. So I head to the bar and talk to the guy who saw my dad, but he wants cash to tell me what I want to know, but of course I still have no money. Crap again.

He offers me a job to go jack some guy up in the nearby town, but everyone has told me this bar owner is a sleaze and I don't want to work for him (or rough someone up on his behalf) so I'm not going to take that job. Another guy in the bar wants me to blow the town up, but of course that's not something I'm interested in.

Finally, I find some girl who wants me to deliver a note to her brother in another town for some cash. There's a task I can feel good about doing.

So I set off to find this other town, with only those few measly weapons to my name and no health packs. It happens to be pitch black at night when I set out and on the very long trek I happen to be attacked by several beasts in the dark, become irradiated by falling in the river that I don't see until I fall into it, get shot and killed by raiders in the dark with my pistol running out of ammo trying to kill them (pistol + vats + long range doesn't work, which I'm sure you all know now).


Since then I've figured out you can 'skip time' to travel during the day (which is much easier to see where you're going of course), I also figured out you can trade pretty much any junk you find in for some sort of cash or goods and with that money I've been able to get a few weapons.

But why did I have to spend hours blundering through all this? I'm a life-long gamer who's played many, many games, I can only imagine what frustration a new gamer who tries to pick up this game would feel. . .probably a feeling of hopelessness and futility at which point they'd put down the game forever.

I know a lot of this info is found in the manual, but EVERY game these days has either an in-game tutorial or sets up the first few levels of the game to explain the basics of the mechanics to you.

The 'vault' training levels completely fail at this because they fail to cover some of the most basic needs of the game: how the game's economy works with the barter system for any junk you pick up, how VATS works, how to 'skip time', etc.

I just can't figure out why they wouldn't build some basic missions into Megaton that would help walk you through all of those concepts. It is mind-boggling to me, frankly.

Now I did manage to work past my frustration and after dying a few times I think I've gotten the hang of staying alive in the wasteland and I am starting to enjoy myself, but why oh why did I have to spend several hours of pure confusion to get there?

Because it's not a Bethesda game without you thinking "WTH is going on?!" for a few hours?

For the love of god! How do you skip ahead through time?! I am a serious Fallout fan and know it was simple in the original two, but for the life of me I can't find it anywhere. I must be slowed. Help? I waited outside Craterside Supplies encumbered with gear wait like a half hour for the sun to rise.

I never played the first two, but I have always been a fan of Bethesda's games. This runs the same engine as Oblivion did, it's nice to see the improvements that have been made. However like Yak I had similar problems early on trying to figure out how to do things. VATS wasn't very well explained, so I had no idea how to use it, also it didn't tell me I could cue multiple actions in VATS. Also lock picking didn't become clear to me till I was nearly finished with the game! However Despite these issues, and my stupid Xbox crashing every hour or so, I really have been enjoying the game. Running around in the wastes is a blast, especially up north!

Who else couldn't stop laughing when Liberty Prime was blowing up bad guys?

Smashotron wrote:For the love of god! How do you skip ahead through time?! I am a serious Fallout fan and know it was simple in the original two, but for the life of me I can't find it anywhere. I must be slowed. Help? I waited outside Craterside Supplies encumbered with gear wait like a half hour for the sun to rise.

For the xbox its the back button, across from start

Thank you!

I actually decided to purchase this game, and I must say it is great. I do agree with Yakface to an extent, when you first start off its kind of difficult to jump right into the action, especially if you choose to play as a good guy, but one thing I have learned though is that even if the task or quest you are completing seems evil, there is usually a way to complete it in a good way.

Vats is great, nothing better than getting a head shot with a rifle. Best moment so far is sneaking up to a raider with a combat shotgun and completely removing his head off with a point blank shot.

The easiest way to get some good weapons at the start is to go to the Springvale School. The hallways are littered with Raiders who attack you on sight, and most tend to rush at you so VATS with a pistol is good times. By the end you should have a couple of pistols and a 10mm submachinegun, all the while killing in self-defense!

Anyone else get Fawkes as a companion yet? I love having him around!

Might want to put SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! on the post now that Yak got here with his above post. Thanks yak....

Any ways, I had only finished up to the part where I exit the vault, but already knew I could sell junk to make money (its in every RPG and MMO since many years back) so I'm not sure many other people will have issues figuring out how to make money.

- Kill critter with baseball bat.
- Loot.
- Sell.

Basically the same in every game I've played since the original Fallout 10+ years ago.

I'm just trying to get to The Citadel and make nice with the Brotherhood.

I've already met them, and helped them out...but they won't teach me how to use Power Armor.

I mean sure, they give me the schematics to make a Nuclear Landmine that's remote detonated.
Sure they give me a Minigun, Flamer, and a Fat Man nuclear launcher.

Yet they won't show me how to wear power armor?! WTH guys! You gave me NUKES!

Well i have the game now, i must say i am impressed, in respect to the beginning in the vault i agree with Yak totally, however once you get outside and workout what you are doing etc its not that, ive only just got to megaton, however i've had a couple of fights with some raiders along the way and picked myself up a flamethrower , it does play alot like Oblivion however that isnt exactly a bad thing really it is essentially Oblivion with Fallout skins but being as the Elder Scrolls series and Fallout are two of my favourites im pretty much hooked still thanks for the opinions guys keep em coming

Kanluwen wrote:I'm just trying to get to The Citadel and make nice with the Brotherhood.

I've already met them, and helped them out...but they won't teach me how to use Power Armor.

I mean sure, they give me the schematics to make a Nuclear Landmine that's remote detonated.
Sure they give me a Minigun, Flamer, and a Fat Man nuclear launcher.

Yet they won't show me how to wear power armor?! WTH guys! You gave me NUKES!

Kanluwen, have you spoken to Elder Lyons yet? If not (and if you haven't gotten into the actual Citadel) you won't be able to use the Power armor. You need to speak to Elder Lyons to get permission. Once you have his permission you need to speak to the training dude (he moves around somewhat to make things worse) I found him in the Citadel A-Ring section, thought I also saw him outside once or twice in the courtyard.

I haven't actually gotten to the Citadel, yet.
Only level 15; and on "Scientific Pursuits" for the main storyline(Following James, yeah?). Gotta find Vault 112 :(

I'll be getting it in a few days, and it's going to eat up my life for about a month at least.

yakface wrote:

The 'intro' bit in the vault is all well and good, but once I escaped the vault all I had in my possession is a pistol with roughly 24 shots, a BB gun (and ammo), Baseball bat, Baseball, Baseball glove, some armor (and helmet) and a couple of vault jumpsuits. I've got no money (which fits the story) and I have no idea how to make money.

You're in a post-nuclear holocost world and you're complaining about that treasure trove of stuff? You'd complain if they hanged you with a new rope wouldnt you?

(I actually think there would be a bit more realism if there was LESS stuff to find ammo-wise. Who's making bullets after 200 years of desolation?)

.............................................

I have it on X-BOX.

I love this game. LOVE it! I've played 30 hours into it and have barely scratched the surface of the total 10 square miles that there are to explore.

VATS is what EVERY first person shooter should have from now on....the "cinematics" during it have yet to get dull. Exploding heads are more fun than cocaine. Shooting charging Mutants in the legs to make them stumble. Shooting arms to make them drop weapons...as a rule, I normally HATE first person shooters, and its rare that I get into one. This first person shooter/roleplayer has me totally hooked.

Fallout vets should be happy. The atmosphere is VERY close to what I remember of the first game, but the graphics are appropriatly better. Somehow I find the game MUCH more immersive than I found Oblivion, I'm not certain why. I got bored with Oblivion quickly and never REALLY got into the game but Fallout is sucking my life away like an MMO.

Yak is actually correct that its a little hard to learn just how to 'operate'. This goes for control-wise and quest-wise. The game is really about exploration though so I can get over that.

Equiptment is a little to easy to find, if the difficulty level reduces the amount of "loot" one gets I may up my difficulty. At times I DO begin to run low on prefered ammo, but I'm never actually out....but I typically carry about 3-4 weapons I specialise in and alternate though, with some "Big Guns" and mines as back-up's. I actually specialise in small arms and sneaking and find the easy-to-find/loot hunting rifle to be my most used weapon...until I get charged, then I whip out the sawed-off for a beautiful head explosion or the ripper (a chainsword straight out of 40k) when I'm feeling particularly nasty.

HOORAY!

I got Power Armor and a unique Minigun!

Bwhahahaha.

Oh yeah, got the unique Chinese Officer's Sword off Vance and his vampire buddies.

I told them I'd cleanse that hole of depravity with flame and power armory death.

And a nuke

Who wants power armour?

With the minigun equipped, my hair/facial hair model, and the sheriff's cowboy hat, my avatar looks vaguely like Jesse straight out of predator.

....now if I can just find an MTV t-shirt and some chewing tobacco. Then my character will be a G-D sexual tyrannosaurus....just like me.

You can get a duster if you take the Lawbringer perk; for the authentic minigun toting Cowboy look

I've got it on PC. Gobs of fun; I'm having trouble stopping.

I think the answer to how to come out of the Vault with wealth (or as close as you can get) is, sadly, kill the guards. They're bad men anyway, no karma lost, and the armor helps you stay alive with extras to sell... also more ammo. Really, it's like most RPGs: wander around, kill things, loot them, clean out the environment of anything moveable that even hints at value.

Om the darkness bit... I just turned up the brightness some. I mean, yes it's supposed to be dark out... but everything was nuked till it glowed, so a little extra glow isn't out of place...

i must confess i have run into a tight spot at the moment, does anyone know any good places to look for 5,52MM and Shotgun Shells, i used all mine fighting a nest of fire ants and im now left with just my 10MM and Laser Pistol

If you can find the Talon Company Mercenary camps and actually *survive* going after Sniper Rifle, Missile Launcher, Assault Rifle, Flamer, etc armed enemies...Fort Bannon works

Kanluwen wrote:HOORAY!

I got Power Armor and a unique Minigun!

Bwhahahaha.

Oh yeah, got the unique Chinese Officer's Sword off Vance and his vampire buddies.

I told them I'd cleanse that hole of depravity with flame and power armory death.

And a nuke

dammit I should not be reading this.

Over on other forums a fair number of persons have completed it already, and I did not detect any signs of a race to do so.

Confirmation please, is the main quest very short?

(No spoilers required)

I honestly don't know.
I'm maybe halfway through the main quest, if I had to guesstimate, and up to level 19. It's entirely possible that it's much much shorter than I've made it by doing side quests; as alot of areas scale the monsters based on the level you are when you first enter it; and then leave them at that level for the rest of your game.

Woop! Enclave Power Armor, Linden's Outcast Power Armor, AND a suit of Tesla Armor.

Thank God I have a house to store all this stuff in

dammit.

Tacobake wrote:dammit.

Now, now Taco. Job first. Covet your neighbor's power armor later.

Just a couple of questions first up…
How do you skip time on the PC?
What does rest/unrested mean. I have a nap because it seems like the sort of thing I should do and the game tells me ‘you feel rested’. I head off and start shooting up raiders, and sooner or later the game tells me ‘you are no longer rested’. That’s all good and well, but what game effect does rested/unrested have?

But I’m loving the game. They got the mood of the original Fallout down perfectly, these pockets of folk trying to rebuild in among these vast patches of anarchy. I’ve had moments of real pathos, when a minor character can make you feel for him in just few minutes of conversation I think you’ve got something pretty exceptional going on.

The graphics help a lot in this regard, in the first two games you were staring at a very limited tileset, all put together in a very ugly brown palette. Here the palette is still muted greys and browns, but is well executed. Sound is near perfect, brilliantly atmospheric.

Fighting is great fun, and VATS helps keep the game focussed on fighting and not on twitch skills. Even if you aren’t using VATS, it’s generally more important to position yourself properly and use the right guns at the right time to win a fight. Unfortunately, like most game it loses verisimilitude from having to shoot regular folk up to ten times to kill them. Punching round after round from my assault gun into the face of a regular bandit and have him keep on fighting is silly.

My only quibble is with the area design. From the early releases the game promised open city blocks, genuinely free roaming gameplay. When I stepped out of the vault I was gobsmacked, because I was staring at a completely open field, it looked like they’d delivered. But I’ve reached Washington, now, and every sidestreet is conveniently blocked by rubble, I’m back on a rail moving from point A to point B. More annoying though, the design manages to hide exactly what that rail is, so I’ve generally only got one way to go, but it isn’t clear where that is. The worst of both worlds.

But that’s just a quibble. The mood and the gameplay have been outstanding so far. I couldn’t rate this game enough.

Well, in order:
There should be a "Wait" function, I think. For 360, it's the 'Select' button. Can't help you with the PC.
Rested means you're gaining a percentage more XP. It doesn't tend to last very long.

And once you get into Washington proper, you end up having to use the Metro tunnels alot to move from one 'zone' to the next. Confused the heck out of me too.

T is the wait button on PC. Isn't it in the manual?

The game comes with a manual?

Pure win! This has turned into a must-buy-now!

hmm i just murdered everyone in MEgaton (except the children it wont let you kill them, oh and the shop keeper and a few quest givers) and the loot wasnt very good at all even after getting the key to the armory..such a shame prehaps i should have just blown the place up

CorporateLogo wrote:T is the wait button on PC. Isn't it in the manual?

It isn't the manual, or if it is I couldn't find it. The manual is really very useless.

Last night once I knew the option was called 'wait' (thankyou Kanluwen) I went to the control customisation and looked up the option. 'T' it is.

99MDeery wrote:hmm i just murdered everyone in MEgaton (except the children it wont let you kill them, oh and the shop keeper and a few quest givers) and the loot wasnt very good at all even after getting the key to the armory..such a shame prehaps i should have just blown the place up

It's cool to know that you can do pretty much anything you want in this game. I was wondering if I could actually kill everyone in a town and exactly what it would be like if I did.

So when you come back to the town is it just completely empty now? You say they won't let you kill the kids so are they still just wandering around the town aimlessly? If you talk to them do they say anything different to you now that you killed everyone?


Hmmm. . .

Maybe I should just save my game and then try killing everyone in town. . .I'm interested to see what it's like.

Talk about morbid curiousity!

Yeah, if you kill the folks in a town; they never come back.
I killed Crowley because he was being a smartmouth to me...and now I can't finish "You Gotta Shoot Them In The Head" :(

RE: the Wait button not being mentioned in the manual

I checked mine last night, and it's on the page with all the keybinds. Though mine is the PC version so I'm not sure if the console versions are different.

Anyone else find this game a little grim?

Sure, it fits. I fully appreciate the gravity of the post nuclear world, and I am a huge fan of dystopia in general. I also like playing dirty in games like these, which seems to have ample possibilities in Fallout 3. I got this game because I'm a huge fan of Oblivion, but this reminds me much more of S.T.A.L.K.E.R. These two seem to share a distinct lack of hope. That's all very well, but it can get depressing. In Oblivion there was a streak of humour, and you could let your guard down much more. Maybe my overnight transition from Fable 2 has amplified the shock to my system.

Anyone else find that? Much as I love taking knives to faces, I want to feel the love too.

Anti-Mag wrote:Anyone else find this game a little grim?

Sure, it fits. I fully appreciate the gravity of the post nuclear world, and I am a huge fan of dystopia in general. I also like playing dirty in games like these, which seems to have ample possibilities in Fallout 3. I got this game because I'm a huge fan of Oblivion, but this reminds me much more of S.T.A.L.K.E.R. These two seem to share a distinct lack of hope. That's all very well, but it can get depressing. In Oblivion there was a streak of humour, and you could let your guard down much more. Maybe my overnight transition from Fable 2 has amplified the shock to my system.

Anyone else find that? Much as I love taking knives to faces, I want to feel the love too.

The game seems very adaptable to me (even though I've played a very rigid 'good' archetype). If you're looking for 'hope' in this game then you need to play the shining hero like I've done.

I haven't robbed, stolen or killed anyone who didn't directly attack me first. I've even given donations to people even though I'm already solidly on the 'good' side of karma.

I've saved people and towns and they all thank me when they see me. Everytime I return to Megaton someone runs up to me and gives me a free item just because of how great they think I am. The radio broadcasts call me a hero.

So in short, I feel like I'm bringing hope to the wasteland one town at a time. In this regard the game world actually feels very hopeful to me. If you want hope, be the person who brings hope to others!

CorporateLogo wrote:RE: the Wait button not being mentioned in the manual

I checked mine last night, and it's on the page with all the keybinds. Though mine is the PC version so I'm not sure if the console versions are different.

I don't think anyone ever said it isn't in the manual. I just said I was shocked they didn't have something so basic and crucial to the game included in a tutorial level. Most games today have a pretty robust tutorial system which means you rarely (if ever) have to crack open the manual. Fallout most certainly does not which is why now when anyone asks me how the game is, I tell them: "great, just make sure you read the manual really carefully because the tutorials suck in the game."

Well that makes sense. I guess the real joy of games like this is the titanic replay value. Out of interest, how far into the game are you with this ''good'' character? Also, I've tried to find a scale that shows your Karma standing, without success. Does it exist, or is it just factored into the games ending?

Yes the karma meter exists. Its in your pip boy on one of the stats pages. Basically its a picture of you and a title like Saviour of the Valut or something to that affect on the right side of one of the screens. My guy is giving the thumbs up and has a halo around his head. I am also playing a "Good" character the first time through. For those who think this game is lacking humour, it might be just because you are missing the funny stuff. A lot of it harkens back to the original fallout 1 and 2 so background in those games will bring even more nastalgic laughs. As well as the priceless vault tech ads and notices in people's mailboxes. To the absolute obserdidty of some of the characters and their beliefes. Last night I ran into a character who was completely a loof and cheery but thinking her great idea was going to help people even though she knew nothing about what she was doing. It had me laughing for a good 5 minutes while talking to her, because all you could hear was Sarah Palin speaking. The voice even sounds like her. I called the wife into the room and asked who this character reminds her of and she quickly caught on to who I thought this character was like and agreed. Plus you got zanny robots of doom (which I'm not going to spoil) and all of the lighter touches that you really have to search for from things like the bobble-heads to cram to nuke cola and other funny parallels that the game draws with our own existence. Don't forget getting drunk or addicted to various things while fighting off some mutants.

Last, Best Hope For Humanity.

It's great to be liked

Yakface:
I don't think anyone ever said it isn't in the manual. I just said I was shocked they didn't have something so basic and crucial to the game included in a tutorial level. Most games today have a pretty robust tutorial system which means you rarely (if ever) have to crack open the manual. Fallout most certainly does not which is why now when anyone asks me how the game is, I tell them: "great, just make sure you read the manual really carefully because the tutorials suck in the game."

i agree it is in the manual for the xbox anyway however i can understand your annoyance at the lack of such a simple game mechanic but if i remember when playing oblivion and that had a longer tutorial section than Fallout you were never told about the wait button either IIRC,

its nice that everyone stays dead so you can murder everyone everywhere and rule over a wasteland alone, like you i am playing the 'good' mercenary type role too, however i think another play through is called for just to see how things change when you decide to be pure evil

in the main quest i've only just arrived a Galaxy News Radio and am leaving it at that for the moment, the other side quests are quite involved, at the moment i am trying to do the wasteland survival guide and have only one quest left, i recommend everyone does that quest as it allows you to gain the Rad Regeneration Perk, and Moria constantly gives you really nice items for each section you complete

I had a look at the game while at a friend's house recently, and it certainly looks awesome. The humour is a definate plus!


--The Overseer--
--The Overseer--
--The Overseer--
--The Overseer--

There’s definitely humour in the game, but for the most part its very black. The previous Fallout games had a lot of goofy humour as well, and lots of in-jokes and references. F3, or at least the parts of the game I’ve experienced so far, have only really kept the black humour.

The other parts of the setting, if anything, are more bleak than the previous Fallouts. Sure, there’s always been hookers, drug abuse and imminent death, but this time the game seems more keen to show you the human face of that suffering.

I've found it very affecting, at times.

Love the game, stayed up till 4:30am the other night playing it and ditched work also!

Well rested gives you a 10% experience bonus I believe.

So I finished it just a few minutes ago.

The ending is kind of a letdown, as the game just...stops.
And I can't use that character again to keep exploring the world, as you can do in Oblivion at the end of the storyline.
I dunno, maybe when they add more content you'll be able to.
But it's disappointing to lose your unique Gatling Laser just because the game stops :(

Kanluwen wrote:So I finished it just a few minutes ago.

The ending is kind of a letdown, as the game just...stops.
And I can't use that character again to keep exploring the world, as you can do in Oblivion at the end of the storyline.
I dunno, maybe when they add more content you'll be able to.
But it's disappointing to lose your unique Gatling Laser just because the game stops :(

Man, that is a damn shame. There is so much cool stuff in this game that you think it would be a no-brainer to leave it 'open' after the game is finished to allow people to finish up seeing anything they missed. I'm assuming the story kind of hits a point at the end where they can't come back from to let you continue to wander around? If not, there really isn't any excuse.

Or maybe because of how many different ways there is to play the game they're trying to encourage you to play again a different way to see different stuff? Either way, just like with Dead Space's inability to allow you to try a harder mode with your existing equipment when you finish the game I think it is mistake. It never hurts to give players more options, IMHO.


I'm really digging this game, but like most things I really like I can't help but think of a couple things I would love to see changed. I really find the world super-immersive and if it wasn't for a few really 'gamey' conventions to me I would probably think this is the best game of all time.

While I love the RPG elements of the game, especially when it comes to the skills, like lock-picking, hacking, etc, and I do enjoy the VATS system, ultimately I think that the combat should be less RPG and more shooter.

I'm not just talking about VATS here (although I do think it should go ultimately), I'm talking about the way damage is handled here. In many cases, the physical way you control the guy is less important than how much damage you can take vs. how much damage you inflict (and how many med-packs you have etc).

While there are certainly some monsters and people you can avoid by hiding behind terrain and/or dodging their shots in many cases your enemies seem to be crack shots from long range, constantly dinking off a little of your health no matter how careful you try to be. Other times you face creatures that are so fast and agile you are literally unable to step out of their way as they charge (they magically pivot as they charge).

So in many ways the combat is still very 'RPG'ish, even when fought in real-time. If you don't use VATS it can often take several shotgun blasts to the chest for you to kill a person or even several grenades to take out a super-mutant. I'm not opposed to tough enemies, I'd just like to feel that the weapons behaved a little more potently.

In other words, if the combat behaved more like a typical shooter and you didn't pause during combats to whip out grenades, medpacks, or go into VATS, I really think the world would be so much more immersive and real feeling to me.


Similarly, I think the inclusion of some rusty old vehicles, like a motorcycle, dune buggy, or even beasts to ride like Oblivion that allowed you to travel around the map quicker would allow them to eliminate the 'quick travel' feature and make the world feel more real. Allowing me to 'jump' back to my home base to sell my loot everytime I fill up my satchel really doesn't make me feel like I'm in a real world. The few times I actually am forced to trek to find a new area is when I really enjoy the game's world. If I had the option to take a creature or vehicle that could get me places faster but without using the 'quick travel' feature it again would really help me with the immersion of the game.


Finally, I'm a completist. I can't stand leaving an area without checking to see if I've picked up every last good piece of scrap. But it really is mind-boggling tedious, and I had the exact same problem with Bioshock. I hate the fact that I'm wasting hours looking at tables for stim-packs, but at the same time the fact that so much good stuff is hidden barely out of site compels me to do so.

I would absolutely LOVE if there was a feature called 'quick search' that showed a little 10 foot (or so) ring around you and if you clicked 'quick search' you'd automatically search that whole area for any items that could be picked up and they would pop-up in your inventory menu like you were buying items from someone (so you'd have an overall list of all items in the area that could be picked up, or you could scroll through each container one-by-one in the area to see what each particular one is holding.

Obviously this wouldn't get stuff out of safes, you couldn't search if there is an enemy around and maybe they could even work the 'perception' skill into this somehow (like the higher the perception the larger the 'search area' is).

All I know is that if they had this feature it would absolutely make my gameplaying 1000 times more enjoyable.

yakface wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:So I finished it just a few minutes ago.

The ending is kind of a letdown, as the game just...stops.
And I can't use that character again to keep exploring the world, as you can do in Oblivion at the end of the storyline.
I dunno, maybe when they add more content you'll be able to.
But it's disappointing to lose your unique Gatling Laser just because the game stops :(

Man, that is a damn shame. There is so much cool stuff in this game that you think it would be a no-brainer to leave it 'open' after the game is finished to allow people to finish up seeing anything they missed. I'm assuming the story kind of hits a point at the end where they can't come back from to let you continue to wander around? If not, there really isn't any excuse.

Or maybe because of how many different ways there is to play the game they're trying to encourage you to play again a different way to see different stuff? Either way, just like with Dead Space's inability to allow you to try a harder mode with your existing equipment when you finish the game I think it is mistake. It never hurts to give players more options, IMHO.

Thanx for the warning, I was going full steam ahead on the primary mission and was actually thinking about just going out and mucking about the far edges of the map...time to go explore.

I'm really digging this game, but like most things I really like I can't help but think of a couple things I would love to see changed. I really find the world super-immersive and if it wasn't for a few really 'gamey' conventions to me I would probably think this is the best game of all time.

Ditto that, at this point Fallout 4 is probably a pretty safe bet, maybe even on the current system.

While I love the RPG elements of the game, especially when it comes to the skills, like lock-picking, hacking, etc, and I do enjoy the VATS system, ultimately I think that the combat should be less RPG and more shooter.

I'm not just talking about VATS here (although I do think it should go ultimately), I'm talking about the way damage is handled here. In many cases, the physical way you control the guy is less important than how much damage you can take vs. how much damage you inflict (and how many med-packs you have etc).

While there are certainly some monsters and people you can avoid by hiding behind terrain and/or dodging their shots in many cases your enemies seem to be crack shots from long range, constantly dinking off a little of your health no matter how careful you try to be. Other times you face creatures that are so fast and agile you are literally unable to step out of their way as they charge (they magically pivot as they charge).

So in many ways the combat is still very 'RPG'ish, even when fought in real-time. If you don't use VATS it can often take several shotgun blasts to the chest for you to kill a person or even several grenades to take out a super-mutant. I'm not opposed to tough enemies, I'd just like to feel that the weapons behaved a little more potently.

In other words, if the combat behaved more like a typical shooter and you didn't pause during combats to whip out grenades, medpacks, or go into VATS, I really think the world would be so much more immersive and real feeling to me.

I sort of disagree here. I almost EXCLUSIVELY go VATS. My character is built for extra action points and has addictions to everything that adds to it (unfortunatly ) sneaky sniping is my forte, and when combat gets up and personal I'm still going for headshots to end combats quickly.

I actually 'prefer' the RPG feel over the shooter feel, I've never been much for 1st person shooters anyway. I prefer to work my mind rather than my reflexes so dying just because I couldnt aim well enough or dodge enough reflex-wise is only frustrating to me. There is 'just' enough real-time action in this RPG to create a sense of urgency and I think that this is were the real immersion comes from for me.

Fallout always was an RPG and I think that all the Fallout 'fans' out there were really afraid that Bethesda was going to turn their game into a first person shooter action gore-fest without retaining that "RPG feel" that those originally attracted to turn based roleplay actually prefer. I think they found a really nice balance.

Similarly, I think the inclusion of some rusty old vehicles, like a motorcycle, dune buggy, or even beasts to ride like Oblivion that allowed you to travel around the map quicker would allow them to eliminate the 'quick travel' feature and make the world feel more real. Allowing me to 'jump' back to my home base to sell my loot everytime I fill up my satchel really doesn't make me feel like I'm in a real world. The few times I actually am forced to trek to find a new area is when I really enjoy the game's world. If I had the option to take a creature or vehicle that could get me places faster but without using the 'quick travel' feature it again would really help me with the immersion of the game.

I totally agree with that. 'quick travel' is a little too safe and easy in a world such as this.

Finally, I'm a completist. I can't stand leaving an area without checking to see if I've picked up every last good piece of scrap. But it really is mind-boggling tedious, and I had the exact same problem with Bioshock. I hate the fact that I'm wasting hours looking at tables for stim-packs, but at the same time the fact that so much good stuff is hidden barely out of site compels me to do so.

I would absolutely LOVE if there was a feature called 'quick search' that showed a little 10 foot (or so) ring around you and if you clicked 'quick search' you'd automatically search that whole area for any items that could be picked up and they would pop-up in your inventory menu like you were buying items from someone (so you'd have an overall list of all items in the area that could be picked up, or you could scroll through each container one-by-one in the area to see what each particular one is holding.

sounds like someone needs to go pick up the guide!

yakface's narrative was great. That's exactly what happens to a good guy in the wastes. I know what you mean about missing things in the tutorial though... I accidently figured out how to repair things about 90% of the way through the main story.

Orlanth: The main quest won't force you to get as involved with the world as Oblivion did, but that's sort of relieving. It's not 'very short'. There are a couple of minor shortcuts if just go straight to Rivet City, etc. but no spoilers here.

I need to play this with a half-dozen character configurations yet; I don't think HtH will be as rewarding as it was in the predecessors, and the Ripper was frigging irritating. The shishkesword was disappointing after the concept work too. Unarmed was my favourite path in the first two; I don't think Fallout 3 will get as many hours from me as they did, but I don't have as many hours as I did ten years ago anyway.

Basically, this game made me as beamingly happy as every other 22-year-old who has been waiting since he was twelve for another Fallout game to arrive. I've been more than happy to overlook its flaws for the sheer experience of killing my favourite classic enemies in first person. Hell, HUNTING them! My first Deathclaw fight came from above, as I casually fended off a few mole rats with the laser pistol... I could just go on and on.
I love this game because I love the Fallout world, and I'm willing to acceppt Bethesda's appropriation of the theme - they haven't ruined anything too big (HAROLD!!!!!). Comparison for effect would be Half-Life 2. Bethesda only dropped the humour element that was carried by the 'text-adventure' styled narrative of the earlier games - first-person superseded that anyway. People still tell you to get f**ked to your face. Whereas Valve took a game that they made in the first place and stuffed it up by changing the character of... everyone.

EDIT; Okay, I replying to the last post on the first page. In conclusion, HL" was supposed to be Best Game Ever, but wasn't. Not as many people know Fallout, but the ones who did shouldn't be disappointed. Fallout 3 Kicks.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:yakface's narrative was great. That's exactly what happens to a good guy in the wastes. I know what you mean about missing things in the tutorial though... I accidently figured out how to repair things about 90% of the way through the main story.

Speaking of that:

Is there a way for you to fix your own gear (I think that's what you're talking about) or do you always have to pay someone to fix it for you?

fix your own gear by combining...

Assault rifle breaking down? shoot as many enemies as you can with assault rifles and "use the good parts from those guns to replace the broken down bits on yours".

Deadshane1 wrote:
I sort of disagree here. I almost EXCLUSIVELY go VATS. My character is built for extra action points and has addictions to everything that adds to it (unfortunatly ) sneaky sniping is my forte, and when combat gets up and personal I'm still going for headshots to end combats quickly.

I actually 'prefer' the RPG feel over the shooter feel, I've never been much for 1st person shooters anyway. I prefer to work my mind rather than my reflexes so dying just because I couldnt aim well enough or dodge enough reflex-wise is only frustrating to me. There is 'just' enough real-time action in this RPG to create a sense of urgency and I think that this is were the real immersion comes from for me.

Fallout always was an RPG and I think that all the Fallout 'fans' out there were really afraid that Bethesda was going to turn their game into a first person shooter action gore-fest without retaining that "RPG feel" that those originally attracted to turn based roleplay actually prefer. I think they found a really nice balance.

Don't get me wrong I use VATS as much as I possibly can because it is the most effective way to fight in the game, and I do thoroughly enjoy it.

However, I can recognize that using it (and the rest other RPG elements of the fighting) helps to pull you out of the very 'real' world they've managed to create for the most part.

The fact that time constantly passes, shops are closed while people sleep, etc, sets the feeling of a living, breathing world which is then kind of destroyed when you're able to pause time in the middle of a fight to take healthpacks or whip out a grenade.

Sometimes when a game goes 3D it becomes 'time' to drop some of the previous elements of the game that just don't 'match' with the new type of game world that has been created. . .previous fans be damned.

Dead Space, for example, was able to build your HUD into the game so that you NEVER felt like you were outside of the game looking in. Even your inventory screen was a holo-projection that your character was looking at.


I just think the WORLD of Fallout is so amazing that if they had made every last effort to make sure you were constantly 'in it' and living through the time then the game would be absolutely majestic and part of that would be getting rid of the non-real time combat (and the ability to pause the game to swap weapons).

malfred wrote:

Tacobake wrote:dammit.

Now, now Taco. Job first. Covet your neighbor's power armor later.

but I want it now! Also, I stopped reading this.

yakface wrote:

I just think the WORLD of Fallout is so amazing that if they had made every last effort to make sure you were constantly 'in it' and living through the time then the game would be absolutely majestic and part of that would be getting rid of the non-real time combat (and the ability to pause the game to swap weapons).

I would hate for this game to lose it's turn based options. Its what made me enjoy fallout. What you are talking about it making a "Better than WOW" game with quick mapped keys that players would have to learn, develop macro's etc. While that may give the player more of an immersive feeling with the "oh sh*& I can't take a wrong step" feeling, you'd lose out on a massive player base who aren't interested in that kind of play. The game is all about you and built on your association with your character, why take away from that by making you an insignificant part of the worlds mechanics?

On a side note, I have found a couple of glitches involving water and enemies. You can lead an enemy to water, then run around to the side facing them from where they cannot get up...and simply shoot them mercilessly. The AI doesn't solve that problem well at all. Also enemies seem to become frozen in the water, sometimes hovering above it too.

I don't know why people think there's an ammo shortage... I'm loaded down with like metric tons of it, even for my spray-n-pray guns. It's literally all over, in addition to what you can buy. I have yet to use the Rock-It Launcher, because why use an imrpovised gun when the real ones are well-supplied?

yakface wrote:Speaking of that:

Is there a way for you to fix your own gear (I think that's what you're talking about) or do you always have to pay someone to fix it for you?

Deadshane1 wrote:fix your own gear by combining...

Assault rifle breaking down? shoot as many enemies as you can with assault rifles and "use the good parts from those guns to replace the broken down bits on yours".

The better answer would be to press 'R' over an inventory item that you have a duplicate of. Its condition as well as your repair skill affects how much the item is actually repaired, and the worse one is discarded. I was just paying people because I didn't bother to read the survival guide for three days. You must be in the same boat, so to speak.

A little late to the punch but i have spent most of my waking hours playing the game so my work has suffered a little and have had no free time. But none the less this has to be one of my top ten games of my lifetime. Now 26 years isnt a really long time but i have been playing video games since i was 7 and at the moment own all the consoles. I have also played fallout since the first one and even played the horrible version on the first xbox.

Truly though i couldnt have expected a better game. I was hesatent at first when i heard interplay went under and wasnt doing it and then when bethesda picked it up i thought "great now i get to play oblivin..... in the future :S" but so far 15 levels in i have no complaints and still a whole load to do. I have yet to try it on the 360 but i do prefer the ps3 over the computer. Mainly cause it has been so long since i have done a FPS on the computer.

lord_sutekh wrote:I don't know why people think there's an ammo shortage... I'm loaded down with like metric tons of it, even for my spray-n-pray guns. It's literally all over, in addition to what you can buy. I have yet to use the Rock-It Launcher, because why use an imrpovised gun when the real ones are well-supplied?

Because it's hilarious to peg a raider in the head with an old soup can?

I've played every game in the Fallout series, excepting Fallout:BoS, and I've been waiting impatiently for a new chapter in the Fallout universe for some time. I have my opinions but I really needed to think about this one because my opinions fall on so many levels, ergo it isn't simply a question of "is it good, or bad?".

First off, I have never played a game that was as compelling and engrossing as this one is, period. I'm embarrassed about it, but sometimes it takes real effort to stop playing at night and get in bed at a reasonable hour. I'm reluctant to compare it to Oblivion, for reasons that will be clear later, but that seems the natural comparison to make. Oblivion was a great game, but, to me, it still felt "gamey". Fallout 3, on the other hand, has true immersion, in my opinion. I know that is interesting as some people find that some aspects of the game feel "gamey" to them ( V.A.T.S comes immediately to mind ). I guess what draws you in is different for each player. I certainly can't explain it. I will speculate that while I don't think the world is actually any bigger than oblivion, I think it feels bigger. The ruined urban landscape can squeeze an enormous amount of content into a tiny space. For instance, in the game you might be in a "safe" encampment, all the while knowing that just a city block over might be a raider stronghold full of people who despise all things civilized, just waiting to take everything you have. The ruined metro tunnels are a great touch. There is something very evocative about scavving through these tunnels, and something feels very realistic to me about it. I also think this is an environment that most of us are familiar with through films of the fighting toward the end of WWII. I may not like to think about it, but I also couldn't help being reminded of the terrorist attacks in 2001. I'm not about to suggest the designers intentionally tried to evoke that, but I wouldn't be surprised if it has at least fleetingly passed through most players minds. The end result, for whatever reason, is to me it all adds up to an engrossing and occasionally disturbing experience.

Another aspect I'm absolutely in love with is the combat. I believe Bethesda took a big risk with this, in fact, it was a big risk mixing turn based and real time action in any format. For what it is worth, I have never before played a mixed system like this that I thought worked. X-COM apocalypse was the only game like this I could tolerate at all, and even that one I believe should never have had a real time option. I've never been impressed at all with any other game like that. Somehow though, it works for me with Fallout 3. I firmly believe that whoever came up with the idea for VATS is damn genius.

Before I get into quibbles I have with the game, it is worth mentioning that while the game has been well received by reviewers in general, among the hard core Fallout fans it is not nearly as popular. Go over to one of the fan sites like Duck and Cover, and you'll find about a 50/50 split, it seems, between hate and love. It seems like the feelings about it tend toward extremes, with not a lot of middle ground. All I can say is it seems slightly better received than Tactics, and not nearly as universally reviled as Fallout:BoS. Really, to me it is no matter. The fact is that I don't believe there is any group of gamers on the internet that are as nihilistic, cranky, bitter, and jaded as the Fallout fandom. I think it is frankly astonishing that anyone in the community has played it at all. As is, those who say they bought the game on the forums are opening themselves up for all manner of abuse from people who think that you should only download a warez copy, in order to give a big f.u. to Bethesda. The unavoidable fact, I believe, is the game isn't isometric, isn't from Interplay, and isn't turn based. Of course, suggesting this will earn you the title of Bethesda fanboi, and an irate tirade about all the REAL reasons Fallout 3 sucks. I'm just not buying it. They won't admit it, but sooooooo many Fallout fans are conservative in the extreme. To make a political analogy, if you mix Sara Palin, a Midwestern banker, and Jerry Falwell together, you'll come up with your average Fallout fan. Time moves on. The fact is that you're just not going to be able to put a 2-D RPG out on the shelves at Best Buy. You're certainly not going to spend millions of dollars to do so. There are great games being produced that are exactly like that, and I enjoy them immensely, but it is the terrain of indie game developers. My response is " What is better, accepting Bethesda's Fallout, or demanding a Fallout just like the first two, and not getting any game at all". The long and short of it is that Fallout fan forums are the only gaming forums I find physically painful to read. They seem to forget that it was Interplay that is widely regarded as killing the franchise, squatting over the corpse, and taking a crap, in the form of Fallout:BoS.

I do have some minor quibbles, but most of them are indeed minor. My most significant of quibbles is the treatment of Super Mutants. This is the one real "sin" I think was made. They're orcs. They don't look anything like the Super Mutants of the established canon, and from what I've seen so far they're just anonymous bad guys. I haven't finished the game, so there very well might be a lot more detail on the Muties, so I'm holding back judgement a little bit on that one.

Quibble 2 is the Brotherhood of Steel. At least Bethesda got the knightly order part of it right. The fact is that the Brotherhood of Steel never fought the "good fight". They had nothing to do with protecting anyone. The Brotherhood is all about collecting and preserving technology. If you're looking for the protectors, in the original canon it is the New California Republic, it is most certainly not the Brotherhood of Steel. They're mystic warriors. It is that simple. What keeps this from being an unforgivable sin is that ( SPOILER ! ) the outcasts have broken away and are closer to the original mission, while the "good fight" Brotherhood is that way due to their leader. I can deal with it.

I believe the original developers knew something about firearms. It seems like they at least flipped through Shooters Bible, or Cartridges of the World, or some other similar title. They had many real world firearms in the second game, and in both the games the fictional firearms and weapons were very reasonable speculations. The idea of having different types of bullets ( JHP, hollowpoint, FMJ, etc) was very cool. There was even an "alternate universe" feel with the 10mm auto ammo being extremely common, as opposed to 9x19mm in our world. 10mm auto is a real round. In fact, shortly before Fallout came out, the FBI and various US law enforcement agencies were toying with the idea of going to 10mm auto. Springfield armory made a 10mm auto 1911 style handgun, in fact. In our world, however, most of them went with the .40 Smith & Wesson ( aka Short & Wimpy ), also a 10mm bullet, or the .357 Sig, a very cool round that should be in every FPS game, IMHO. In any case I found that aspect of Fallout I and II very cool. Bethesda did not do nearly as well. At one point a BoS sniper speculates on whether or not a hollowpoint rifle round will penetrate an Enclave power armor helmet at a great distance. Well.....no, but asking that question about a jacketed round would be a more reasonable speculation. I am not familiar with a common .32 caliber round that will go in both a revolver and a rifle and perform so differently.

I know that it is a fantasy world, and an alternate universe in that, but I think Bethesda should have done more research. It was neat finding real life guns in the original fallout games, and even cooler than that were the speculative weapons they came up with. I think it was completely awesome picking up a Glock plasma pistol, or a Westinghouse laser rifle. I seem to remember another sci-fi weapon being from GE or Honeywell, or something simliar like that. All the weapons in F3 seem homemade, which is cool in and of itself, but there should also have been pre-war toys. I know it is 200 years after, but there is no reason a properly stored firearm can't remain functional for a very long time, and I don't think it would be unreasonable to speculate that someone in Megaton would be stamping out Grease Guns, or something, based on old designs. I know, I'm a gun nut ( second perk I picked in the game, btw ), so probably 99% of players didn't give a rat's ass, but the Interplay guys apparently did.

The miniature nuclear weapons and the mushroom cloud farting cars is kind of gay in my opinion, but you have to admit, it is cool. Perhaps it is cool in the same way the Village People used to be cool. No big deal, I'm ok with it.

All and all, the best game I've played in 10 years ( Yes, including HL2, Portal, etc ). I'm suprised it is doing as well as it is, given that I think it is properly enjoyed by someone with a nihilistic and Sisyphean world-view, like myself. If you haven't played it, drop whatever you're doing now, say goodbye to your wife and kids for a month, and go buy it.

*Minor Spoilers*





The Brotherhood of Steel you find in the Capital Wastes is not the Brotherhood of Steel that came from California. Elder Lyons decided to abandon his mission of finding technology and returning home, to devoting his cause to saving the people of the Capital Wastes. Your father had a project that Lyons supported; but left after you were born.

The Super Mutants are also a different strain of the FEV, hence why they differ from the ones you find in the other games. Even the Centaurs are different, having taken a different mutational path it seems.

Kanluwen wrote:*Minor Spoilers*





The Brotherhood of Steel you find in the Capital Wastes is not the Brotherhood of Steel that came from California. Elder Lyons decided to abandon his mission of finding technology and returning home, to devoting his cause to saving the people of the Capital Wastes. Your father had a project that Lyons supported; but left after you were born.

The Super Mutants are also a different strain of the FEV, hence why they differ from the ones you find in the other games. Even the Centaurs are different, having taken a different mutational path it seems.

Alright, I've gotten as far as the Citadel, so that isn't a spoiler. I haven't gotten any information on the different strain of FEV or the Super Mutants in general.

You don't until the quest following "The Waters of Life" and the ensuing trek to a Vault.

My overall opinions are basically what Grignard expressed in that post (big one), which I certainly couldn't have been bothered to type.

Your avatar hit me for a natural 20 on the Intimidate check.

yakface wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:So I finished it just a few minutes ago.

The ending is kind of a letdown, as the game just...stops.
And I can't use that character again to keep exploring the world, as you can do in Oblivion at the end of the storyline.
I dunno, maybe when they add more content you'll be able to.
But it's disappointing to lose your unique Gatling Laser just because the game stops :(

Man, that is a damn shame. There is so much cool stuff in this game that you think it would be a no-brainer to leave it 'open' after the game is finished to allow people to finish up seeing anything they missed. I'm assuming the story kind of hits a point at the end where they can't come back from to let you continue to wander around? If not, there really isn't any excuse.

Do not overworry about this.

Having not played the game, but seeing how Bethesda works I can all but guarantee there will be add ons. as it is similar to Oblivion expect something similar to Knights of the Nine or whatever.

I dont know the storyline (and DONT want to find out) but comments on how the game suddenly just ends makes sense. Ib think it is not an ending, just a savepoint.

Bethesda invested a lot in Fallout and while we may well see Fallout 4 in time we will see expansions much sooner. Explansion cost a fraction of the initial outlay cost for the game development, yet make a very good return on their own. When the expansion comes along your character will be ready where he left off. This leads me to beleive the expansion will likely be a direct plot continuation - different sotry line fresh goals, new maps etc. Hopefully you will still be able to backtrack.

No obvious mention of the possibility of mods, though. No launcher option for game files. I haven't heard any mention of it. Fallout 3's world was more 'expendable'; you know, the world runs out of ammo and you have to depend on encounters. The cars only blow up once. It's a bloody big world, but I think any real Fallout fan would just start a new character.
That's what disappoints me most about F3 - there are about three viable character paths. VATs is kind of silly in melee, not to mention you're forced into standing still and you CAN'T AIM. Playing hard-arsed, bullet-wearing bare-knuckled brawlers was great in the original engine. So much for breaking people's hips with a sledgehammer now.

On a lighter note, some of the repairs are just silly. I want to know just how come I can have two knives at 80% condition, and I can just sacrifice one to make the other 90% or so. With complicated weapons/armour it sort of makes sense... but what about tyre irons? Do you just melt them together? And does anyone know if you can combine anything to repair the Eyebot helmet?

Orlanth wrote:

yakface wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:So I finished it just a few minutes ago.

The ending is kind of a letdown, as the game just...stops.
And I can't use that character again to keep exploring the world, as you can do in Oblivion at the end of the storyline.
I dunno, maybe when they add more content you'll be able to.
But it's disappointing to lose your unique Gatling Laser just because the game stops :(

Man, that is a damn shame. There is so much cool stuff in this game that you think it would be a no-brainer to leave it 'open' after the game is finished to allow people to finish up seeing anything they missed. I'm assuming the story kind of hits a point at the end where they can't come back from to let you continue to wander around? If not, there really isn't any excuse.

Do not overworry about this.

Having not played the game, but seeing how Bethesda works I can all but guarantee there will be add ons. as it is similar to Oblivion expect something similar to Knights of the Nine or whatever.

I dont know the storyline (and DON'T want to find out) but comments on how the game suddenly just ends makes sense. I think it is not an ending, just a savepoint.

Bethesda invested a lot in Fallout and while we may well see Fallout 4 in time we will see expansions much sooner. Expansion cost a fraction of the initial outlay cost for the game development, yet make a very good return on their own. When the expansion comes along your character will be ready where he left off. This leads me to beleive the expansion will likely be a direct plot continuation - different storyline fresh goals, new maps etc. Hopefully you will still be able to backtrack.

Actually, it *does* just end. There is a save point right before the cutscene at the end; and then once the cutscene ends...
Credits roll.
Fin

WAY TO SPOIL IT BAKER! WAY TO SPOIL IT!

Every time you log onto the Internet, there should be a spoiler warning in general.

Man, the Internet spoils everything for me.

I once found out Jesus really wasn't resurrected, and that was the descent of my sanity :(

Not sure if Achilles is joking or not (I hope he is) but just in case I put a spoiler tag onto his comments.

Kanluwen wrote:
Actually, it *does* just end. There is a save point right before the cutscene at the end; and then once the cutscene ends...
Credits roll.
Fin

Exactly that. If I am guessing right you will automatically get a final save at or just before the end, you might not even be asked to save, you may just get the save. If I am really on the money the save will be marked differently as a filename so you know its a final save, if not the computer will know anyway.

In any event that savegame prepares your character for instant start on the main quest of the first expansion. If you complete the game multiple times the expansion will sift through and find all your endsave characters and give you the choice of which to port into the next episode of the game.

Sudden ending makes sense this way.

It is very possible that the first expansion will be online download and free and avialble in about 4-6 months time. This will give the game second wind which will have a knock on effect on new sales as players are brought back to Fallout thus keeping it in the minds eye for those yet to purchase. Otherwise and regardless you will need to wait about 8-12 months for the first expansion pack, with another the following year, possibly even a third. This will give a tie over to keep a good wait time of 2-3 years before Fallout 4.
That is what I see as the business plan anyway.

Orlanth wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
Actually, it *does* just end. There is a save point right before the cutscene at the end; and then once the cutscene ends...
Credits roll.
Fin

Exactly that. If I am guessing right you will automatically get a final save at or just before the end, you might not even be asked to save, you may just get the save. If I am really on the money the save will be marked differently as a filename so you know its a final save, if not the computer will know anyway.

In any event that savegame prepares your character for instant start on the main quest of the first expansion. If you complete the game multiple times the expansion will sift through and find all your endsave characters and give you the choice of which to port into the next episode of the game.

Sudden ending makes sense this way.

It is very possible that the first expansion will be online download and free and avialble in about 4-6 months time. This will give the game second wind which will have a knock on effect on new sales as players are brought back to Fallout thus keeping it in the minds eye for those yet to purchase. Otherwise and regardless you will need to wait about 8-12 months for the first expansion pack, with another the following year, possibly even a third. This will give a tie over to keep a good wait time of 2-3 years before Fallout 4.
That is what I see as the business plan anyway.

If you are going to discuss the ENDING OF A GAME, please use spoiler tags to disguise your text.

Yes please, I haven't beaten Fallout 3. Of course, I possibly never will, as I keep getting sidetracked on exploring the world. Sort of like life really.

Kanluwen.

I have not played this game, and do appreciate the spoiler comments.

However the post you quoted was about the BUSINESS PLAN, and not the PLOT.

Is there anything in your reply that refers to that you can post openly. Basically the only thing I can think of that is remotely relevant to the quote and spoilerable is if the game is open to a sequel or not. And that can be said in isolation without revealing anything that requires a spoiler.

Whatever... in a month it will be as irrelevant as the legendary ending of Halo 3... which was lame anyway.

Grignard wrote:Yes please, I haven't beaten Fallout 3. Of course, I possibly never will, as I keep getting sidetracked on exploring the world. Sort of like life really.

And just like real life, the ending sucks.

You're right. Fallout 3 cannot be faulted.

If someone says, "That sucks," you say; "It's a post-apocalyptic wasteland! It's supposed to suck!"

It's almost as good as the 'fusion matter' excuse for the car explosions.

Only glaring trouble I had with the game was occaisonal dialogue issues... like one ghoul claiming to have been a scientist "and then those damn bombs dropped." Does becoming a ghoul make you immortal, or something, because last time I checked, the bombs dropped 200 years ago... It's like some of the people writing the dialogue remembered the background, and some others just kinda skimmed it.

the story is as long as you can drag it out. i am level 7 and haven't even been to megaton

lord_sutekh wrote:Only glaring trouble I had with the game was occaisonal dialogue issues... like one ghoul claiming to have been a scientist "and then those damn bombs dropped." Does becoming a ghoul make you immortal, or something, because last time I checked, the bombs dropped 200 years ago... It's like some of the people writing the dialogue remembered the background, and some others just kinda skimmed it.

Yes, in the previous games there were several ghouls who were from before the war. In Fallout 3 one of the ghouls at the Museum of History mentions that she is a pre war ghoul, and tells the story about how she survived. I don't recall if any of the games state whether ghouls are ageless or simply live a long time.

Also worth mentioning is that the ghoul city in Fallout 1 was the result of a Vault that was intentionally designed to not seal the inhabitants in properly, as part of the Vault experiment. From what I can tell that implies ALL the ghouls in Fallout 1, from that area at least, were pre war.

I picked that up too... fully aware of canon, but the ghouls in F3 just don't SEEM like they're 200 years old. It may be the oblivion-esque lack of voice variety though.

Why, Harold, why?
...Hey, I just figured out why the President was called Richardson in F2. Gawd I'm slow.

I haven't touched F1 for a while. Does it actually refer to the Experiments at all, or was that introduced in F2? Or is it in F2 that mentions the Necropolis vault as a deliberate fault? I know they talk about the vault failing and folk becoming ghouls in the original...

Arctik_Firangi wrote:I picked that up too... fully aware of canon, but the ghouls in F3 just don't SEEM like they're 200 years old. It may be the oblivion-esque lack of voice variety though.

Some ghouls are more than 200 years old, many are not.

I haven't touched F1 for a while. Does it actually refer to the Experiments at all, or was that introduced in F2? Or is it in F2 that mentions the Necropolis vault as a deliberate fault? I know they talk about the vault failing and folk becoming ghouls in the original...

It's hinted at in F2, with some more explicit text to discover if you happen to look in the right places.

well i'm on my second character, i gotta say its alot easier being evil killing all those traders that move around the map is a great way to get money, sadly because i blew up megaton i can't find anywhere else to repair my gear, i havent gotten to rivet city yet so anyone got any ideas?

99MDeery wrote:well i'm on my second character, i gotta say its alot easier being evil killing all those traders that move around the map is a great way to get money, sadly because i blew up megaton i can't find anywhere else to repair my gear, i havent gotten to rivet city yet so anyone got any ideas?

Big Town (which isn't too far a walk from Megaton) has someone who repairs weapons. Also, any of the scavengers that are located at specific (unmarked) areas in the wasteland can also often repair your gear.

Big Town (which isn't too far a walk from Megaton) has someone who repairs weapons. Also, any of the scavengers that are located at specific (unmarked) areas in the wasteland can also often repair your gear.

thanks Yakface, i knew about the scavangers, sadly my character kills them and robs them of everything once they have repaired my gear, still i'll keep alook out for big town

If you blew up Megaton there should be a room a la the Megaton house in Tenpenny Towers waiting for you if you took the quest from Mister Burke.

I didn't know this forum existed on dakka until 20 minutes ago. Shows how much I pay attention.

Anyway, my feeling about this game have been covered at least 3 times over. In bullet format:

-Good combat, interesting but not repetitive.
-Engaging environment. Better than Fallout 1, maybe not as good as Fallout 2. Though many times I felt my own feet on gravel, so it was certainly more immersive.
-The main story was weak. Very weak. It started off quite well, but sputtered out due to lack of depth. Not unlike all of Bethesda's work. With the exception of TES:3
-The music was FANTASTIC. It fit the environs, and yet was not in any way repetitive 50's dreck. This, in combination with nominal sound design, may have made the game for me.

Dogmeat swimming is the cutest damned thing I've ever seen.

Anyone found an item that can repair the Eyebot Helm yet?

surely you cant just take it to a shop keeper that repairs stuff?

Some can, some can't... and generally, the repair job is craptastic. I lucked into one to cannibalize for repair, but eventually, it had to go.

Great review here

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/420-Fallout-3

Does your character really max out at level 20???


What a bummer!

He does... but you can still walk around getting all the achievements so long as you don't take the final quest.

I just finished the "third to the last" quest just last night and hit level 18 and it finally set in....

This game is no-longer new. I hope the replay value is good enough for me...

I know there's still a lot to explore. Maybe as a 'Evil' big gun and unarmed computer whiz. Otherwise I'll take a break with some more "lego Indiana Jones" before Resident Evil comes out in march.

Am I the only one who is bummed that you can't kill kids in Fallout 3? I never did it in Fallout 2, (except by accident) but the fact that it was there was ... interesting. They pulled the same thing in Fable. The only town that had kids is the town where you *have* to turn in your weapons. pffftt...

The thing that I'm concerned about. Why do you have a desire to kill children? I mean really?

Do you honestly know how much flak the gaming industry has caught from having games where you can kill children? There have been TONS of protests and legal actions against such a thing. Bethesda (and Lionhead) is just covering their own ass here, because I don't think they want to get sued or have their game recalled.

I jest sir. I don't actually want to kill children.

But planting grenades on children is Fallout canon!

Though I guess all of the kids in the first two were androgynous with long hair... like a lot of the smellier kids at the FLGS.

yakface wrote:
I got the game and I have to say I'm a little frustrated with how poorly they've constructed the beginning of the game to help you figure out exactly how the game functions.

The 'intro' bit in the vault is all well and good, but once I escaped the vault all I had in my possession is a pistol with roughly 24 shots, a BB gun (and ammo), Baseball bat, Baseball, Baseball glove, some armor (and helmet) and a couple of vault jumpsuits. I've got no money (which fits the story) and I have no idea how to make money.

By this time in the game I've decided I'm going to play a 'good guy' type of character. I'm not going to steal or lie and I'm always going to try to help people out. . .for compensation, of course, a man's gotta survive.

Following that archetype when the crap went down in the vault I decided I wasn't going to try to kill the vault security guys who were chasing me, I just ran from them instead. I have no idea if I missed out on a bunch of great weapons/gear etc. by fleeing straight for the exit, but that felt like the 'right' thing for my particular character to do.

So when I get to Megaton, I'm looking for guidance on how exactly I survive in this game world and I don't get any of that. The town sheriff asks me if I can disarm their bomb. Well, I'm looking to help and I picked a bunch of technical skills when I was developing the character so I say 'sure', I'll try to disarm it to get some cash.

But of course when I get to the bomb, I don't have the sufficient ability to do so. Crap. Still no money. So I head to the bar and talk to the guy who saw my dad, but he wants cash to tell me what I want to know, but of course I still have no money. Crap again.

He offers me a job to go jack some guy up in the nearby town, but everyone has told me this bar owner is a sleaze and I don't want to work for him (or rough someone up on his behalf) so I'm not going to take that job. Another guy in the bar wants me to blow the town up, but of course that's not something I'm interested in.

Finally, I find some girl who wants me to deliver a note to her brother in another town for some cash. There's a task I can feel good about doing.

So I set off to find this other town, with only those few measly weapons to my name and no health packs. It happens to be pitch black at night when I set out and on the very long trek I happen to be attacked by several beasts in the dark, become irradiated by falling in the river that I don't see until I fall into it, get shot and killed by raiders in the dark with my pistol running out of ammo trying to kill them (pistol + vats + long range doesn't work, which I'm sure you all know now).

OMG, that was (almost) my exact experience last night. Though I did take Moriartys job and was able to talk the target into giving me the money.
I didn't like Oblivion but mostly for its loading issues, and i haven't had any of those in this game.

My only dislike is the manual aiming is a little ineffective.

I think this game is actually my favourite game for at least... a while.

I'm in a hurry, so rattling off these:

- Music is fantastic. I've spent about £8 buying these tracks off iTunes, purely for the awesome value.

- The game is beautiful. Pop up on a hill, admire the sunrise over the irradiated wastes.

- DLC! Epic DLC announced. It lets you continue after you've finished the game.

- VATS! The VATS is fun, but sometimes combat feels a bit "One shot to the head... BOOM", and too easy.

~sA

Im really more of a casual gamer, I rarely play for more than an hour or two at a time, but fallout 3 is the first game Ive played in years I can play for 6 hour periods & not notice where the times gone.

Got it, but it hasn't sucked me in. I didn't get much into Morrowind and
Oblivion either. Just not a fan of first person pseudo real-time, I guess.

It is stated in the game that Ghouls age slowly. (If at all) That is why some of the ghouls are older than 200.

Best part of the game is shooting heads off in VATS. The animation/slow mo never gets old, and it just is satisfying to watch heads go flying. I talk to my TV as I'm playing. The raiders come up and say some inane chatter like, "I'm going to kill you...etc" and I say to the TV, "No you aint B*TCH, cuz I got a shotgun that is gonna shoot you in yo' face!" And then I turn on VATS and keep my promise. It never gets old.

I'm playing a paragon saint of a character as well!

Game is pretty darn good. If it wasn't Fall Out 3 it would be nearly perfect. It impossible for it to live up to the hype and memories of a Fall Out nut, and it does indeed fall short in that regard. The game was over way too quick. I casually played the main story line and then beat the game by mistake. The main story was WAYYY too short. I've read it hours tons of extra content but I was a little annoyed when I beat the game because I did not think I was anywhere near the ending when it ended. Overall the game is fun and for sure worth playing though. Very polished, brutal, fun.

Ghouls do indeed age extremely slowly. This is a bit of a bonus, seeing as they are also sterile. This means that this generation of Ghouls will be the last.

However, I'm also seeing that new ghouls are made in the game -- e.g. Moira if you pop Megaton. I'd be happy to see a few more around.

~sA

P.S. I've played this for 34 Hours since Boxing Day. I'm taking a break, it's destroying my social and work life. Not for long...

The game was over way too quick. I casually played the main story line and then beat the game by mistake. The main story was WAYYY too short.

gotta agree with that, its why i havent touched my copy 3 weeks after it came out, i havent explored half of the map, i just cannot bring myself to start a new character just to do the extra quests and get all the bobbleheads etc

still was playing it round a friends this weekend and its still fun but we were all picking a location or quest to do which made it fun as i can still get to see the places i never bothered going to?

btw has anyone found the vault full of Gary's yet? Its really really really funny

Funny?

I almost sh*t myself. I go in, decide to sneak it with no Pip-Boy Light, no Radio, using only Mines and Knives. I get down there, checking out a Terminal. Back out of it, and I hear "GAARRYY!" and just get thwacked.

Scary.

~sA

really guess its funny the different effects situations have on people, we were walking round with 'the terrible shotgun' and couldn't stop laughing as they start running after us going, "GGAaaRRYYY!"

I went in there as a third level Small Guns character who had run out of ammo. I left pretty quickly, and came back ten levels later when I remembered to.

That's what I always hated about Oblivion - the dungeons would only contain opponents that were at your level. Fallout 3 had a bit of that with the wilderness encounters, but overall there were plenty of challenges worth walking away from at lower levels.

The quest involving certain oversized insects with unusual pyrotechnic abilities. I bumped into the quest at level 3 and attempted it with my paltry selection of 10mm pistols and a laser pistol, with a small handful of grenades. I completely ran out of ammunition; bullets, grenades AND mines, and I still didn't finish the quest. Came back at about lvl 10 and wrecked the place with a chinese assault rifle and combat shotgun.

yes the main quest is quite short but you can get massive gameplay hours in with the side quests

It also deserves to be said that Fallout 3 is designed in such a way that there is absolutely no grinding needed in building a character. You level up quickly, without having to worry about using a skill too much and leveling up too quickly to get the full stat bonuses like Oblivion. The gameworld is smaller by overall size than Oblivion, but is absolutely packed with things to do.(again, fitting an urban/suburban environment). I reached level 20 doing sidequests before I even reached the point where your character is taught to use power armor. It isn't even necessary to "max out" on stats either. You start with 35 points spread between 7 stats(so 5 each, but you can redistribute them before leaving the tutorial section) with 5 extra to use as you see fit. You have immediate access to a perk (a passive bonus that comes with each level up, you choose which) that can add extra points. Even then, you have inventory items you can find that boost a stat while you hold them, and you find Vault-Tec Bobbleheads that, once found, either permanently increase one of your skills by ten or a stat by one and do not count toward your carried weight. As you cannot raise any of your 7 stats over ten, it is often unnecessary to raise them beyond 7 unless you are going for something extreme.

On normal difficulty you really only need a small bit of planning regarding what type of playstyle you would like to stick to, and with a little discipline it's entirely possible to be great at what you want, but still have respectable options. My first character was a sort of an experiment;I had given him 10 luck at the outset just to see how it would work out. I had planned to make a character with high Speechcraft and respectable Small Guns, and decided that I didn't particularly care about lockpicking shenanigans. By the time I had reached level 20, I had actually reached max level in Small Guns, Medicine, and Repair, 85 in Speechcraft, 60 in explosives(fun), 50 in Big Guns, and 50 in Sneak. I even went back and raised both lockpicking and hacking to 50 just because. I could lay waste to just about anything and could play with Big Guns when it wasn't absolutely necessary to kill something as fast as possible. 60 is sort of a plateau for explosives. At that point they will do very large amounts of damage, and that level of skill opens up a perk that raises your explosives damage by 20%. I never needed any more than that. You just don't know how fun it is to hunt Deathclaws with a dartgun and homemade claymore mines created by filling a lunch box with cherry bombs and bottlecaps with a sensor unit duct taped to it.


:Edited for TextWall

I too maxed out my character doing side-quests before learning how to use power armor.

I was actually quite bummed when I found out that 20 was the max because I had burned a lot of my perks taking the ability that makes you level up more quickly. . .which is essentially a wasted perk in the end.

If I was to start all over again I would be very careful to only pick perks that have an interesting game advantage first (child at heart, ladies man, etc) and only then go for perks that increase stats. And I most certainly wouldn't take the 'quick learner' (or whatever it was called again) because leveling up ASAP really isn't that big a deal.

The one leveling perk I would probably still take (and much sooner this time around) would be the one that doubles the stat bonus you get from reading books. I had no real idea that there would be so many books in the game and by the time I did realize it and take that perk I had probably wasted about 20ish books that could have given me 40ish stat upgrades instead of just 20ish.

Ladies Man and Black Widow are used in about 5 places each. They're really kind of wastes of perks as well.

lord_sutekh wrote:Only glaring trouble I had with the game was occaisonal dialogue issues... like one ghoul claiming to have been a scientist "and then those damn bombs dropped." Does becoming a ghoul make you immortal, or something, because last time I checked, the bombs dropped 200 years ago... It's like some of the people writing the dialogue remembered the background, and some others just kinda skimmed it.

Incidentally the same character has provided me with my new favorite quote. " Things weren't always this way, I was a goddamn scientist". I can't understand the hardcore fallout fans bitchiness. Sure, it isn't perfect, but I don't think anyone can convincingly say that Bethesda hasn't made the old college try to stay true to the franchise.

I've read over in the Fallout Wikia that ghouls are marred for life AND made effectively immortal as a double whammy(unless of course someone drops a piano on one). A major theme of the game is the silly, completely rediculous misunderstandings concerning how radiation worked that the public had during the 50's and such. Ghouls, Super Mutants, Giant Ants and Scorpions, freaking GLOWING Ghouls. Besides, though Fallout 1 and 2 fall many, many years apart, there is a Ghoul character in both of them that returns in 3. Age is not an issue for them and I don't see how anyone can honestly have a problem with it.

the game is very funny

The "help" you receive for the end battle was the most perfectly hilarious thing I'd seen in years.


The game does, unfortunately, have some perks that are misleading because you think they would be useful. The experience boosting perk and the "immediately gain one level perk" look absolutely irresistable to someone who slogged through oblivion. Rad resistance is useless as there is only one fairly weak enemy in the entire game that uses it against you. Extra damage against bugs is unnecessary when you realize that you can literally run circles around a giant radscorpion and punch it to death. Why take a perk to have another chance at hacking a locked computer when you can just log out and start over with full tries?

Some are actually recommendable to anyone though. One of them gives an extra 3 skill points to use per level. Another gives you another 10% damage resistance. Extra 5% chance at criticals, yes.

sorry small spoiler coming up for anyone that hasn't finsihed the main quest yet



agreed some perks are next to useless, i accidentally took the +1 level one at level 20, what a fool i was for that, hopefully the promised DLC will include extra levels and more perks to play around with *crosses fingers*

I've had some great experiences with VATS (My main character relies on unarmed combat though, so that might explain things a bit). One great example:

I was fighting a mercenary on the top of a satellite dish in the northern DC wasteland. We were both almost dead, and I had disarmed him of his weapon, so we were both fighting unarmed. The last hit in VATS entered extreme slow motion, and we both connected fists. Unfortunately for him, his arm exploded when his hand hit mine (thank you, perk system), and he ended up spiralling face first into the ground from about twenty stories up. It's things like that that make it so the combat in Fallout 3 never gets boring.

All of the Vaults in that game are so awesome, and kind of create their own story to tell you about things that Vault-Tec tried to do to people that they had locked inside. Some of them are disturbing. Some of them are hilarious. My personal favorite is the vault (I don't remember the number) that drives it's inhabitants insane (the only one that does so to you as well). You go in, and start having flashback type moments. Out of nowhere, Amata and her friends attack you. When you get far enough into the Vault, you get a full-on hallucination with a room full of computers. The computers all speak from your own mind's perspective, telling you things like "This is nice. We should stay here. Forever."

That was just one of the best moments in the game for me.

It's just too bad I got kind of bored with the game. It just doesn't have the lasting power that the Elder Scrolls series does for me (I still play Morrowind, even when I've beaten every single quest in the game, most of them multiple times. I swear, I could probably beat that game blindfolded).

Yes Deery. Exactly. I can't remember the last time I actually genuinely enjoyed a videogame so much.

Vats can get silly. It just isn't right when you shoot a guy in the head, but his entire head comes off and spirals away into the sky while his body flips backwards over a cliff. However, it is incredibly entertaining. I love getting deathclaws to chase me over a few bottlecap mines. His huge bulk kinda "hops" up, but his limbs go flying.

It's weird though. Most of the Vaults were either control vaults used to compare experimental results or actually used to preserve valuable segments of society, but you only ever run into the Mengelian experiment vaults. Even your own Vault 101 was an experiment. Although it didn't vivisect it's inhabitents, intentionally expose them to massive amounts of radiation, infect them with FEV, drive them into killings frenzies, etc., it was never meant to open. Ever. To observe a society contained entirely within such a small world.

99MDeery wrote:sorry small spoiler coming up for anyone that hasn't finsihed the main quest yet

Spoiler:

that help wouldn't happen to be a giant mech running around screaming "death to communists" and other such lines would it, i laughed so much i forgot i was meant to be killing enclave soldiers that thing didn't wipe out

agreed some perks are next to useless, i accidentally took the +1 level one at level 20, what a fool i was for that, hopefully the promised DLC will include extra levels and more perks to play around with *crosses fingers*

That perk should raise the level cap, too. That would be a nice bonus.

There has actually been a problem with many, many people believing this to be the case. Honestly though, there is no reason for that perk unless you are on a 3 day rental or something.
Right now I'm building up a character for energy weapons and explosives. Others say that small guns is vastly preferable due to the number of different options it gives you and how common they are. I just take care of the few energy weapons I get and treat all of the small guns and ammo for them I find as income. Lots and lots of income.

DLC raises Level Cap to 30!

WEOWNEDTHEOTHERTEAM.

Yeah, VATs makes for epic fights. Like 4 Raiders running at me with Pipes, Knives, and Tire Irons. I queued up 3 headshots, ran out of AP, was like "Fine, I'll do this Freestyle!"

I pull R Trigger, three perfect headshots with Xuanlong Rifle. Then I get out of VATs, run away from the final Raider. I pull out the Hunting Rifle, and fire randomly: it skims his leg, he stumbles. Then, turns and runs like a woman. So, I hunt him down with just chop him up.

OSSUM.

~sA